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From: colin@bajin.demon.co.uk
Date:          Sun, 18 Jun 1995 13:27:28 +0000
Subject:       What Colour( Color?)

I've got a 1974 109 that is now ready to be painted. The trouble is I 
can't decide what colour to paint it. It has been green, blue and is 
currently red. So I've decided to let you folks decide the colour.
Please e-mail me with your suggestions.

Also (UK only) can anyone tell me where to get paint, or what the 
original green and blue colours are called?

Apologies if this message has already appeared, been having trouble 
with my e-mail.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 16:04:18 +0200
From: vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte)
Subject: Re: Brake Fluids

Easton Trevor wrote on June 17th:

>I am contemplating changing the brake fluid in Miss Golightly's system to 
>silicone as I believe it is much better for long term survivability and I 
>intend to keep her for a long time. 

This is a topic thas has been discussed in the classic car movement 
over a long period of time, now.
It is almost as controversial as the use of the new "miracle" PTFE [=Teflon
(R)] engine oil additives.

FWIW, my personal opinion:

1. I know a guy who had been driving his classic car (an MGB, in this case) 
    during his holiday. The brake fluid had  been changed to silicone.
    At some time, he lost some of the the brake fluid (there was a leak 
    somewhere). 
    It proved *very* difficult to obtain replacement silicone fluid elsewhere 
    in Europe along the highway.
    (It is my understanding, as it was his understanding, that you cannot 
    replenish / mix  with the more common ethanol-based brake liquids).
    So, be prepared to expect trouble then (or, take a spare can with you...).

2. As far as I have understood, there is not a *single* car manufacturer 
    who has approved the use of silicone based brake liquids.

    There still isn't *any* new car that uses this type of fluid.  

    When buying oil or antifreeze or whatever automotive chemicals, 
    I always look carefully for approvals  on the can (e.g. Ford, 
    Daimler-Benz, MIL-..., whatever...).  (Doesn't need to be Rover, actually). 
    It is just that car manufacturers tend to be VERY careful in examining 
    every  product for their application.

IMHO, these liquids shoud not be used as long as the two problems indicated
above have not been solved.

(I'm really looking forward to that moment, however. Advantages of the stuff
are, that it is not inflammable and that is not hygroscopic.)

Any comments?

Bert Palte                                                             (for
Dave: PAoLPS)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------

Company E-mail:
vortex@worldaccess.nl    Vortex Balanceertechniek B.V., 
                                           Soest, The Netherlands

Home E-mail:
.......  (coming soon)         University of Twente E.E. Alumni 

1964 Ser II a 88 Petrol, ex-British Army, Germany.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------

------------------------------

From: fradekk@ibm.net
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 95 19:38:55      
Subject: Re: Functional Rollbar or Cage

Can only help you with the address of Safety Devices:

Safety Devices Ltd.
Regal Drive
Soham
Cambridgeshire CB7 5BE
UK

Tel. +441353624624
Fax. +441353624824

According to my info they should manufacture internal and external cages for
series II (2)

//----------------------------------------------------------------------------
// Frank (Disco 93)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 12:58:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: What Colour( Color?)

On Sun, 18 Jun 1995 colin@bajin.demon.co.uk wrote:

> Also (UK only) can anyone tell me where to get paint, or what the 
> original green and blue colours are called?

I think this has application in the UK.  It be interesting to know if   > 

You're pretty much on your own when it comes to paint colour/color.  None
of us will have to live with what ever hideous colour/color you end up
selecting.  Perhaps as a good joke you will get a lot of recommendations
to paint it that marvelous pastel pea soup green that was common in the
late 1960s.  In the meantime the following was posted in the not too
distant past.  The same questions keep coming 'round.  

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
           Walter C. Swain          |  wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us 
           Davis Community Network  |   
           Davis, California        |  1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW (red)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From CXKS46A@prodigy.com
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 17:21:15 EST
From: MR ALEXANDER P GRICE <CXKS46A@prodigy.com>
Subject: Aluminum painting

Several people have asked questions about painting Birmabright as of late,
so I thought I'd pass along a few part numbers and whatnot.  Most all of
the part numbers are DuPont; any DuPont paint jobber should be able to mix
up Rover colors in single quart cans. (If anyone has any other #'s, pass
them along.)

        Bronze green    38500
        Mid grey        38501
        Sand            38502
        Marine blue     38503
        Pastel green    38504
        Limestone       38505
        Poppy red       38506
        Burnt grey      38508
        Davos white     38514
        Mexican brown   38519
        Cameron green   38520
        Almond yellow   38521

For "DuLux" alkyd enamle, append a "D" to the paint color number.  Add an
"L" of laquer, or "A" for Centari acrylic enamel.  Other part numbers:

        Dulux hardener                  77s
        Aluminum cleaner                225s
        Aluminum conversion coating     226s
        "Variprime" two-part primer     615s
        Engine enamel
         "Detroit Diesel Alpine Green"  #225 (made by Tempo)

Automotive paints are quite sensitive to temperatures: use the following
thinners/retarders.  If you must paint at higher temps, add an anti-wrinkle
agent:

        DuLux Thinner   Temp Range      Centari Thinner Temp Range
           #8508        below 65 F           #8034       below 70 F
           #3812        65-75 F              #8022       70-85 F
           #3864        70-80 F              #8093       above 85 F
           #8522        above 80 F

The DuLux cannot be clear-coated, though the Centari can be protected in
this fashion.  DuLux can be mixed for brush application (like for roofs)
rather than spray applicatio, though.  DuPont "Corlar" two-part epoxy is
another primer alternative.  As it is intended for aircraft, it is only
available in gallon cans, and in grey.  Better living through chemistry...

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

>From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 14:48:38 +0800
From: "William L. Grouell" <William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: Aluminum painting

 A few more scraps of information, and it seems to coorrelate;

                        Dupont Centari       Ditzler       Glasurit
     
     Limestone             38505A             46251        
     Marine Blue           38503A             16514         ROV504
     Poppy Red             38506AH                          ROV303
     Light (Pastel) Green  38504A                           ROV605
     Sand                               ACF/004 or 26291
     Bronze Green          38500A             46451         LEY637
     Arctic White

  I don't know why my numbers have "A" suffix.

R, bg

PS; Ain't it odd, the way old discussions get going around, as new folks
come into the group. We did this paint thing last October, and the third
hinge thing was just revived again, the other day.

------------------------------

Date: 18 Jun 95 19:20:19 EDT
From: "WILLIAM  L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: Recent Digests

 Jory --  If your gearbox problem is traced to broken springs on the synchro
hub, these can be changed with the gearbox in situ, it is a tedious job which
requires a lot of fiddling  with long nose pliers, I personally use some
surgical pliers that are from a redundant operating   theatre. It is however a
lot less work than removing the gearbox to replace the springs.

 Sean, re your request for a roll bar/ cage, if you are considering a UK source
then I recomend Betaweld, tel 011 44 1302 842682/ 351264, he makes a wide range
of types and styles for the whole range of  Land Rover products
 Sorry for raising the pressure on mail boxes regardind front wheel bearing
lubrication.   Good side slope driving also helps the oil to flow into the
bearings,     on one side anyway  !!!
   Regards    Bill  Leacock    Limey in exile.

------------------------------

Date: 18 Jun 95 19:35:30 EDT
From: "WILLIAM  L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: Misc

The screw required for the removal of the brake drum is a 3/8 inch British
Standard Whitworth thread on early motors and a #/8 inch Unified National Course
thread on the later motor, either thread will fit each other, technically bad
since ther thread angle on the Whitworth is 55 deg and 60 deg on the Unified. If
you look around the engine compartment there are plenty of 3/8 ( 9,52 mm ) dia
screws that you could use.

  regards  Bill Leacock   Limey in exile.

------------------------------

Date: 18 Jun 95 20:14:21 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: IIa vs. III

> I'm almost embarrassed to admit how many years it was before I
> realised how perfect the lip on the underside of the metal dash
> is for opening beer bottles.  They just don't make em like they

Actually, the old-style metal radiator grill of pre-1985 Range Rovers
also makes a great bottle opener - only draw-backs: You must take off
the grill from time to time to remove the caps, and of course you have
to get out of the car to open the bottle... I agree, S.II is better.

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 17:44:55 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Security ?????

> > Has anyone any tips on how to make the vehicle more secure as regards 
> > entry?
> In my opinion, locking the car just means that the thief will do more 
> damage - if the car has no visible radio then there is less chance of 
> someone breaking into the car. 

I agree completely.  I never lock my car doors.  Why pay for a broken window?

> Here is my thief deterent plan: I intend to find the cheapest, crappiest,

In terms of theft of vehicle, I have a battery switch with an "off" position, 
and it can be locked in that position.  I can also switch the fuel switch to 
the nuetral position.  And then there's the steering wheel lock, etc.  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

From: JFisk1120@aol.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 21:18:28 -0400
Subject: Re: STOPPING MISS GOLIGHTLY

Greetings to Trevor; long time no type.  I will ask my shop about the merits
of the silicon based fluid for Miss Golightly.  The things which I
immediately think of are compatability of fluid and mechanical components.  I
have had a number of RR (Rolls Royce) and a very common problem with those
systems is the various elements contained within the fluids.  Miss Golightly
may have a very delicate system, however, I rather doubt it. (There I go
dangling again).

With regards to a flushing agent,  I do know that advice from a friend who is
a Ferrari racing officianado worked very well in a '77 RR LWB. He recommended
denatured alcohol, which he said was safe to the seals and mechanical
components of every system.  It worked like a charm on the '77 and was very
reasonably priced.  You understand, of course, that this is not the advice of
a mechanic, merely that of an experienced checkwriter.  I wish I had the
skill and aptitude for mechanical diversions, but alas I do not.

I wish you and Miss Golightly the best of braking as you approach those
perilous roads which lie near the Rover Inn.  By the way, I will send you
along a packet of information on Branson, MO (and if anyone else on the
digest would like information pertaining to our region, please don't hesitate
to email).  You may just want to bring the Mrs. "south of the border".

J. Howard Fisk
Springfield, Missouri

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 20:34:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: What Colour( Color?)

Take a look in Jimmy's picture list for the up coming calendar and see if 
you like the green with sand I painted my Rover.  It is factory and 
everyone who sees it likes the color.  The top is sandstone as are the 
wheels and the body is light hunter green.  By the way for those 
contemplating the brake change over.  If you can wait about 4 weeks, I 
will have a complete set of UAP NAPA books fro a store and I will be able 
to give you all sorts of info on bore size, part numbers and all that 
sort of stuff.
I am selling my  restored 88.  Winch, safari rack, two tops, new engine, 
new front end parts, new trans bearings, new interior, new paint job etc. 
$7700 FOB Winnipeg in Canadian Dollars.  That should make it like $5,000 
U.S.  You can see it on Jimmy's board in its soft top version and maybe 
he has added the picture with safari rack and side tent.  I would like to 
sell it and get a Ser III or another Ser II for re-building.  I like the 
mechanical stuff and don't really drive a lot anymore.  I have a full 
Land Rover in a box for parts.
Finally, if any one lives in the 508 area code, a fellow named Al Richer 
wants me to send him 4 glow plugs.  I have them for him but I can't seem 
to get in touch with him.  Could someone give him a call at 251-0669 and 
let him know I have the plugs and will trade the item he has.  Thanks 
Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 20:41:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: bleeding brakes

Did anyone catch the Shade Tree Mechanic program today?  They showed a 
very nice brake bleeding tool that uses the air compressor to bleed the 
brakes all from one corner of the vehicle.  The price of $175 I think 
they said was a bit steep for back yard types, but for you millionaires 
it would be a nice addition to the shop.  They also showed a disc brake 
conversion kit that looks like it has possibilities for Land Rovers.  
Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

From: JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 95 21:42:00 -0400
Subject: Re: 88 FOR SALE in Pgh.

Russell,

Please forward my name and address to the individual in the Pittsburgh
area, as I am interested in the 88.  I can be reached at the numbers
below.

Jim Cirbus
Sunbury, OH

(H) (614)965-9851
(W) (614)478-6252

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jun 95 22:02 MST
From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II)
Subject: Stupid stunts in a Land Rover

Don't ever go off road with a bozo who goes by the name Mike Lord.  He
will suggest stupid things to do that sound exciting but will get you
in a lot of trouble.  We were exploring the forest roads west of
Flagstaff, when we drove past a volcanic cinder cone which had been
turned into a quarry (I suppose to build I-40).  The west half of the
cone was gone.  Half an hour later, we ended up on a dead end road at
the top of this cinder cone.  Rather than turn around and go back,
Mike suggests we just drive down the front, where all the cinders are
exposed, back to the road we were on earlier.  It was about a 200 foot
drop to the road, and the path we would take started at about a 20
degree angle.  We could see where it got steeper half way down.  We
drove down to that point, and stopped.  I got out with my clinometer,
and found the angle increased to 30 degrees, and further down, to 45.
Well, my dealer brochure for my 72 88 SW says it can climb and descend
49 degrees, and travel across 45 degree slopes, so I figured we were
okay.  The only hitch was, about 88" from the bottom, the slope
increased to more like 60 degrees.  Just before that, however, if we
turned right, the slope went to 20 degrees.  So, at Mike's goading (he
was jumping up and down wanting to try), I decided to go for it.

We made it to the last 88 inches without incident, but when I tried to
turn right, the Land Rover wouldn't.  It slid in the loose cinder,
only going slightly to the right.  I put it in reverse, which backed
us up, but also caused the Land Rover to swing so it was pointed down
more, toward the steep part.  The only thing I could do now was go
straight down the steep part.  We were still pointed slightly to the
right.  I decided to reverse a little more to get us straighter, but
when I did this, the left front wheel went off the edge and we started
going down.  I slammed it into first and hit the gas, which got us
down quicker.  I don't know what angle we were at now, but it felt
like we were pitched down about 50 degrees, and rolled to the left 45.
Just as it seemed the right side wheels were going to leave the
cinder, the left front wheel rolled onto the flat ground, and we were
safe.  

I don't know how close we came to rolling over.  We might have been a
long way from it, or we may have just barely stayed on all four
wheels.  I think we would have been alright if we had rolled, as the
cinder is relatively soft, but that is an experiment I'd rather not
try.  

I now have a new perspective on what a Land Rover can do, but I don't
want to try anything that crazy again.  I can't help wondering things
like, if the gas tank on the right side were not full, would we have
gone over.

Level trails to you all,

James

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  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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