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From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Tue, 23 May 1995 09:58:19 +0000
Subject:       Hi folks, Rovers in films & John R

God, it's been quiet ;}
You have no idea (well, actually, you do) how *boring* it's been 
without the LRO list....

Anyway - Land Rovers in films:
You all know about the 101's in Judge Dredd.
In Dumb & Dumber, there is a *very* stretched RR - just as our to 
'Heros' reach Aspin.

John R. arrived here is Scotland, but failed to appear at the CCVT 
event on the 14th - he'd disappeared to York to seek out parts. This 
was a bit of a shame as we'd got 3 101's together for him, plus a 
plethora of competition-class vehicles battling it out at the Trials.
He was seen by a friend of mine (who happed to know his wife) on the 
15th, so he was alive :-)

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
WWW sites: Work -- <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/>      
           Play -- <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Tue, 23 May 1995 10:00:02 +0000
Subject:       SLROC events

For details of the SLROC events, look up

http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/SLROC/events.html

The information is in table form, so you really need a browser which 
can display tables....

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
WWW sites: Work -- <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/>      
           Play -- <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 10:01:35 +0200
From: Peter Kutschera <peter@zditr1.arcs.ac.at>
Subject: Re: fuel sender question

Hello!
I also had a problem with the gauge. 
Try if there is a good electric connection between the tank and ground! 

Peter

Signature: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter

------------------------------

From: "Eric Desmond (III)" <c1ac@dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Fuel Sender Question
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 11:59:28 BST

I had a similar problem with the fuel sender. I would fill the tank with
diesel, drive 20 miles, and the gauge would register empty. A friend traced
the problem when he noticed diesel on his car's bonnet when he follwed me.
And the tank is NOT made by Lucas!

--
	Later,    
        Eric.

  *-------------------------------------------------------------*
  |                                                             |
  |            #====#                                           |
  |            |__|__\___                     **                |   
  |            | _|   |_ |}                  *****              |
  |           ~"(_)""""(_)"                 *******             |           
   -----*__***************TheBest4x4xFortyYears*****            |
  |                              |                  *           |
  | Eric Desmond (III) sort of?  |  c1ac@dmu.ac.uk  *           |
  |  (Sex God In Spare Time)     |                   *          |
  |                              |                   *          |
  ===================================================*         ==      
                                                      *
                                                       *

------------------------------

From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: MOT tests, diesel tweaking to pass...
Date: Tue, 23 May 95 12:16:29 BST

It's MOT time.  In case that abbreviation isn't
known to you, the MOT is the UK's vehicle 
roadworthiness test.

One of our Series III 109" 2286 diesels
has passed fine except for...  Emissions 
(no real surprise).

What we've done so far;

* New (recon) injectors
* Timing optimally set with smokemeter to minimise
  smoke, even if the engine doesn't sound quite right
* Wound down the pump stop screw so the engine won't 
  rev. very high (max. 19mph in second gear).
* Run through one 500ml tin of injector cleaner
  (now has 'clean' fuel in it)
* Removed air filter 

The basic format of the test is accelerator pedal to 
the floor for about 2 seconds and then release - 
machine gives a smoke readout from the widget stuffed
up the tailpipe.

Our reading at present is a 'K' value of 3.85 (% I think)
It needs to be 3.20 or less.  This has come down from 
a value of 6 before tweaking.

Anyone have any ideas how to get the (smoky) emissions 
down for the period of the test, or longer?  Like by 
adding a percentage paraffin to the fuel [<-joke?] or
something?  Low-cost solutions preferred...

Thanks ahead of time,

Andy
A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 12:41:15 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Fuel Sender Question

On Tue, 23 May 1995, Eric Desmond (III) wrote:

> I had a similar problem with the fuel sender. I would fill the tank with

> And the tank is NOT made by Lucas!

I had the 'leaky' sender (tank) problem. Trouble is it only happened 
AFTER I replaced a (genuinely) defective sender. I had a working guage 
for all of a week, and then it settled back to "E"... only this time for 
genuine lack of fuel.  Grateful machines, LandRovers, eh? I've learned 
not to fix minor problems, as L-R's obey the 'law of conservation of 
problems'. If you fix something, something else will break... and it 
might be more important. This is closely related to the 'law of leaking 
fluids' often seen on this list... "if it's not leaking, it's out of 
something."

Charlie

------------------------------

Subject: Majordomo has returned from leave
Date: Tue, 23 May 95 07:53:55 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

And once again is at your service at 	Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

    Cheers,
	--bill	caloccia@Team.Net	<web: "http://www.senie.com/billc/">
		caloccia@Stratus.Com

      1  3     dl OD  L           "Land Rover's first, because
      |--|--+  o  |   |            Land Rovers last."
      2  4  R  ul N   H           '72 Range Rover

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 13:02:37 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: MOT tests, diesel tweaking to pass...

Andy, what if you attached the oil bath air cleaner to the _exhaust_ 
manifold instead of the _inlet_ side... [as you say: <-joke?].

Charlie

C. R. Wright                                    Dept. of Genetics
+44 (0)1223 333970 telephone                    Univ. of Cambridge
+44 (0)1223 333992 telefax                      Downing Street, Cambs.
cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk                        CB2 3EH, England

------------------------------

From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 07:54:33 -0500
Subject: Land Rover Laws

Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk> wrote:

> ...Grateful machines, LandRovers, eh? I've learned
> not to fix minor problems, as L-R's obey the 'law of conservation of
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> fluids' often seen on this list... "if it's not leaking, it's out of
> something."

Not forgetting Nigel's Desease...

There's another law, too - this one has to do with fixing things that
*are not* broken. If you do this, surely the new part will fail shortly
thereafter. I've been fighting with a new set of points for the last 
two weeks. I decided to do a routine replacement since I don't know when
the previous owner changed them last, and they were pretty pitted. 
However, up until then, the LR seemed to be running pretty good. Now,
the new points keep working themselves out of adjustment after about
20 miles and I get all sorts of sputtering and misfiring (I think
they're narrowing the gap allowing the spark to jump). Sheesh... Last
time I fix something thats working right...

Tim 
'66 IIa 88 SW
---
tim harincar                   moore graphic services
harincar@internet.mdms.com     minneapolis, mn

------------------------------

Date: 23 May 95 08:55:19 EDT
From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Rebuild Fuel sender

Michael:

It is possible to rebuild an 88 fuel sender... but I draw the line at
re-wrapping the resistor coil.  You can bend the tabs away from the cover,
lubricate the unit, clean (with fine, fine steel wool) the resistor coil and
reassemble, but it will probably jump around some regardless because of the
design of a float on a long arm.

Sorry, don't have a used one... but glad to try an answer any questions as you
get into it.

Cheers, 

R. P. Reid

------------------------------

Date: 23 May 95 09:08:57 EDT
From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Latches needed

Anyone got in their spare parts bin the following items for sale (or trade or
donation to a good cause???)

1.  Complete tailgate latch set for a drop tailgate (ie military 88) including
the ---0 part that fits on the gate itself.

2.  Pair of lower door hinges for a series III

This is for a restoration of a trailer to go behind my LR's. Any help would be
appreciated bigtime!!!!

Cheers, 

R. P. Reid

------------------------------

From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 08:07:59 -0500
Subject: Sightings

Hey all, glad we're back.

My wife and I took a trip to San Francisco & Area two weekends ago, and I 
saw a couple nice Series Rovers along with assorted Discos & RR. First
series rover was a II or IIa 88 hardtop, blue I think. Second was a poppy
hardtop, I think it was an 88, but it was getting late and I was on a street
car. Either one of these belong to net people?

Anyone else notice the new Foster's Lager billboard campaign? Saw a couple
of these in SF. First one had a picture of a really nasty looking bowie
knife with the caption "Austrailian for dental floss"; another had a 
very loaded 109 or 110 (so loaded with junk I couldn't tell for sure) with
the caption "Austrailian for Limo". Pretty good humor.

Anyone else here from Minneapolis? Saw a nice Disco while cruising the 
lakes last sunday, and was impressed that he waved to me before I could
wave first (I was busy making sure it was safe to have only one hand on
the wheel). Maybe its just that "Minnesota Nice" thing again. 

Tim
'66 IIa 88 SW
---
tim harincar              moore graphic services
harincar@internet.mdms.com   minneapolis, mn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 06:20:17 -0700
From: jssa@ix.netcom.com (JSSA SERE )
Subject: Temp Gauge Problem

The patient is a 1970 IIA with a Rovers North 2.25 rebuilt engine (less 
than 1000 miles since installation).  After a few minutes at idle, the 
temp gauge reads in the low end of red range.  In the course of the 
last three months I have replaced the radiator, temp sender, temp 
gauge, voltage stabilizer for the gauge, and thermostat (partly in the 
course of the restoration, partly out of frustration with the problem). 
I have taken the temp of coolant tapped from the block and coolant in 
the radiator and neither location is excessively hot.  I have been 
focusing on an elecrical problem (an alternator was fitted in place of 
the dynamo when the new engine was installed) but I am not sure what to 
look for now having replaced most of the components in the circuit.

I would be grateful for any advice.
Thank you in advance.

Stephen De Guire
JSSA@ix.netcom.com   

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 23 May 95 09:47:32 LCL
From: Joseph Broach <PC7170@UTKVM1.UTK.EDU>

unsubscribe lro

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Laws
Date: Tue, 23 May 95 10:27:33 EDT

> thereafter. I've been fighting with a new set of points for the last 
> two weeks. I decided to do a routine replacement since I don't know when
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> they're narrowing the gap allowing the spark to jump). Sheesh... Last
> time I fix something thats working right...

Are you *certain* you installed them correctly?  The two attaching
wires slip *under* the insulator (don't crunch it!) and only contact
the insulator and the "band" that returns to the moving half of the
points.....NOT the small screw/nut/and washer that hold the wires
on.  Also, be sure that the "male half" of the insulator slips into
hole in the metal band and that the band itself doesn't come too
close to the screw.  OK-it runs, so you've probably got it more or
less correct, just check for "cleanliness of assembly".

.....and were you only able to *just* reach the required gap?...
this seems typical of Lucas points these days (Nige's only last
about a year or so before the cheap plastic cam rider wears to
the point that the required gap can no longer be reached.)

rd/nige

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 15:41:43 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Rebuild Fuel sender

On 23 May 1995, Pierce Reid wrote:

> It is possible to rebuild an 88 fuel sender... but I draw the line at
> re-wrapping the resistor coil.  You can bend the tabs away from the cover,

Yes, up to a point.  I tried this, got very frustrated, had the thing in 
and out and back in time and time again, finally resoved myself to the 
fact there was an intermittant break in the coil that I coudn't find or 
fix, and sprung for the 20 pounds.

Charlie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 95 08:22:19 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: '70 Land Rover across America - Did you see me?

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: '70 Land Rover across America - Did you see me?
Hello all! I recently completed a trip (report to follow shortly) where
I bought and drove a 1970 Land Rover "109" 5 door across America, and I
wondered if any of you saw me?

The "109" is a tan color, I think called "sandstone", with a safari top.
(Double layered with a 1 inch or so air gap between layers.) Kind of
hard to miss, *big* old rig, with the spare mounted on the hood! (For
you non-"roverheads.")

I started in upstate New York on May 2nd, and took the following route
over the following 2 weeks. New York to Camden Maine, back to Vermont,
up through Canada, across Canada to Michigan, through Wisconsin and
Illinois, across Iowa, Nebraska, corner of Wyoming, through Colorado to
Utah, and back home to Mesa Arizona. Many back roads were taken, as well
as interstate highways.

I returned to Mesa on the 13th of May.

Please let me know if I "ran across" anyone on the lists. (Hope I didn't
cut you off or anything!) ;-)

Thanks!

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

From: Tom Stevenson <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: LR tyres & rims
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 17:17:11 +0100 (BST)

Andy Reischer asked about suitable rims for his hybrid- the wheels
fitted to the LR 1-ton and Forward Control have a greater offset than
the standard rims (all 5 stud fixing) giving increased track and reduced
turning circle. However, they are (a lot) more expensive than standard
16 inch rims.
-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(01475) 530581  Fax:(01475) 530601

------------------------------

From: "Barry Dudley" <DUDLEY@gate2.cc.unp.ac.za>
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 18:49:41 +200
Subject: THANX and here we come AFRICA

Hello ALL,

This is my last letter (well for at least a year/while) to the
WONDERFUL, INCREDIBLE, MARVELLOUS LRO LIST.  You see next week we
leave OUR JOB'S for AFRICA (no comments to the fact that as I am
already in AFRICA how can I leave.....).
I would just like to thank all of those who have helped,
encouraged, advised, pointed and laughed with (AT??) us.  THANX
CHAPS.  You all have helped tremendously!

IF you wish to follow our progress our initial itinerary (up to
KENYA at least) goes as follows:

Pietermaritzburg up Sani Pass, through Lesotho and down to Cape
Town and up the West Coast to Mokhotlong; Maseru; Ladybrand; East
London; Port Elizabeth; St Francis Bay; Plettenberg Bay; Knysa;
Oudtshorn; Cape Town; Wine Route; Malmesburg; Varrhysdorp; Goegap
Nat Res; Augrabies Falls; Upington; (Namibia) Ais-Ai; Hardap Dam;
Windhoek; Swakopmund; Spitzkoppe; Otjiwarango; Etosha; Caprivi;
(ZIM) Victoria Falls; Bulawayo; Mutare; Nyanga; Harare; Tete;
Blantyre; Cape MacLear; Nkhotakota; Mzuzu; Karonga; Mbeya;
Iringa; Morogoro; Dar Es Salaam; Zanzibar; Korogwe; Moshi;
Kiliminjaro; Ngorogora; Serengeti; Oloolaimulia; Nairobi!

Look for a blue/white LAND ROVER with a huge
water pipe as a bumper!  Time for above - about 3 months.
>From there we will try the WEST COAST up to the UK.

I will have access to e-mail for the next 2 weeks if you have any
comments! 
Otherwise - see you along the way/at the end/when I next write!

Barry, NATASHA and JOHN

   /==============\      BARRY DUDLEY
   |      |       |      E-MAIL:  DUDLEY@MICR.UNP.AC.ZA
  [|______|_______|]     UNIVERSITY OF NATAL, PMB
   /___/^^^^^^\___\      
   |(@) [####] (@)|      PH - 0331 - 63123
   | o  [####]  o | 
   ======%%%%======             uMJIKELEZO
   {*}==={&&}==={*}      "ONE THAT NOWHERE IT
   {*}          {*}       CAN'T GO WITHOUT PLEASURE"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 95 11:04:30 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: 25 yr old Rover's 4600+ mile "maiden" voyage. (LONG!)

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: 25 yr old Rover's 4600+ mile "maiden" voyage. (LONG!)
Hello all! I've been looking for a Land Rover 109 for many months, and
had finally found the "perfect" truck. It's a 1970 series IIa Land
Rover, dual heaters, seating for 11 people. Good condition, with only a
few minor tears in the upholstery, and a small tear in the headliner
("L" shaped with each leg around 1"). Door panels with map pockets,
overdrive, rebuilt trans, not that much rust, (one of the outriggers is
rusted through, but still relatively solid, and one front "horn" section
of the frame has some relatively serious rust.) Only noticeable problem
areas were that the fuel gauge and speedometer/odometer didn't work, and
rear heater not working, and one unmistakable problem that I could not
possibly "live with" was the brakes. It took two pumps of the petal
before ANY brake action took place! It was a scary event just trying to
stop at the end of the driveway! I assumed that it was bleeding, but
decided to take it in and have it checked out by Rovers north in
Vermont, since it was right on the way! Oh yeah! One "minor"
complication.... I live in Phoenix Arizona, and the truck is in upstate
New York!

The actual sale had a rough beginning for me. The PO sent photos, I
e-mailed back, he answered questions, etc... and then when I was ready
to say yes, he'd sold it! Well... eventually the deal fell through, and
I was able to acquire it, so a few faxes, check in the mail, plane
tickets (I took my 15 yr old son), and we were there! (This REALLY is
much condensed!)

We arrived late in the afternoon on Tuesday May 2nd, so the first night
I only went as far as Burlington Vermont, so I could stop in at Rovers
North in the morning. My son and I took turns sleeping in the rear, and
front seat of the 109. The front seat is WAY too short for sleeping in
but worked for now. In the morning, I got directions to Rovers North,
and off we went. I passed up Rovers North, and my son shouted "There it
is!", so I had to turn around in a farmers field. Rovers North is in the
"middle of nowhere" along a road, in a barn! That's not quite what I
expected, or was looking for, but what the heck!

The people at RN were very helpful, and we had a very pleasant
experience there. I told them of the brake problem, and they informed me
that they had a waiting list for service of around 6 weeks! DOOH!! I
explained the situation, and the service manager called out his mechanic
to check it out. One step of the petal and he informed me that it wasn't
bleeding. He drove off, and left me in suspense, but I figured, well,
what ever it was, I had to have it done, so I waited. It wasn't
difficult waiting, as there were numerous Rovers to examine, 88's,
109's, military units, 110's, even an imported 110 (1989, I think) for
sale! I was drooling! I'd never seen one that was not the US spec sold
in '93. One of their staff, Lanny, who was off for that day had stopped
by, and he knew the PO, and even the PO prior to that, and recollected
that this Rover came from Buines Aries? (I think?? Or was that Bahama?
Bermuda maybe?? Bolivia?? Darn my memory!!! &-%$&-!!) This verifies the
suspicions of the PO that I bought it from, and explains the Mexican and
central American maps that were in it when he bought it. (Also, the
speedometer is in kilometers/hr.)

After a short while, (seemed really short, anyway, but could have been a
long time, as I was totally occupied talking to the guys, and checking
out all the Rovers) the truck was ready. "Oh! What was wrong?" I asked.
The brakes only needed adjusting! They also noticed that the rear drive
shaft (propeller shaft) had the wrong bolts, and caused a lot of play.
They replaced these as well, and told me that the rear end had a lot of
play, and eventually would need replacing or rebuilt.

I didn't want to do too much rough 4-wheeling with the truck being so
far from home, but near Rovers North, I found some sandy little trails
meant for 3 wheelers and quads, but I couldn't resist the temptation to
give the old girl a spin in the dirt. Well, I didn't need to put her in
4 wheel drive, but had a fun time going through the trails. Some were a
series of hills, around 3 feet tall, spaced about 8 feet apart. Lots of
wheel articulation! The old girl did very well, but creaked and clunked
with each bump due to the spring mounting bushings being bad. Sounded
kind of like a *loud* popcorn maker! Would have been embarrassing had
anyone been around. ;-)

I had been warned by the PO that the fuel gauge didn't work, but that
there was a little warning when it started to run out. Well, as luck
would have it, a few miles after passing a fuel station, it started to
sputter. Remembering what the PO had said, I quickly attempted a 3 point
turn (did I mention the turning radius was 47 feet!?? No joke!) I
totally died when the truck was almost perpendicular to the road, and
inclined at a fairly good angle with the front on the high side. Walked
to town and returned with a gallon. Still nothing. Presuming that there
was just not enough to get to the fuel pick up, I went with my son, and
we brought back 2 more gallons. Still nothing. Hmmmm.... By now, I think
I flooded it, and the battery was beginning to show serious signs of
fatigue! Some "locals" stopped to help, and offered to pull start us
with a cable that they had. This started it right up, but then when I
pulled over on a LEVEL part of the shoulder, it once again died! Now
wait just a doggone minute! This CAN'T be a fuel problem! Well, back to
basics... I popped the distributor cap, and voilla! the wire to the
points was disconnected, and just hanging there, only making sporadic
contact. It took all of about 90 seconds to find the problem, and only a
few minutes to fix, and she started right up. Total time "wasted"about 4
hours. Bought a 5 gallon fuel can at the next available city, "just in
case".

Well, on we went, towards Mt. Washington (recommended by "Lanny" at
Rovers North). We arrived at Mt. Washington around 6:00pm, and the "auto
road" to the top was closed. Well... a slight change of plans, we
proceeded to Cameron Maine since neither of us had ever been to the
Atlantic ocean. Saw the ocean, (but overslept, and missed the sunrise)
and after around half a day, went back to Mt. Washington. This time, we
arrived before closing, and took the "auto road" to the "top". Around
half way up, the road was CLOSED! What??? But I have a Land Rover! I can
make it! Sigh.... no understanding, these park ranger dude's. Well,
still, it was pretty. VERY steep road too! The admission charge included
a tape of facts about the road and such things. Even mentioned "A" 4
wheel drive vehicle that was the first to make it to the top in the dead
of winter without snow chains (or something like that), but neglected to
say that it was a Land Rover!!! Boy! I was "slightly irritated"!

WE proceeded via the "Kancamagus Highway" and then, onwards to Montreal
Canada. Montreal was a BEAUTIFUL city, as far as modern buildings, lit
up reflecting on the river and all, but everyone seemed to drive VERY
fast! (And I thought I was a fast driver!) All road signs in French,
(not a language I can read or write), and expensive petrol, (at least by
US standards) I went directly to Sault Ste. Marie to cross over to
northern Michigan. I planned out the fuel purchase so that I was real
near empty (as far as I could figure) when I left Canada, so I got the
first fuel I could find in the US. Little did I realize at the time, but
I left the fuel cap in Northern Michigan somewhere. :-( I must have been
"sleeping" when I was in Michigan, because I missed the turn off to go
towards Wisconsin, and crossed into Michigan on the wrong side of lake
Michigan. I was clueless, until I saw a sign saying "Detroit 200 miles".
SCREEEEEECH! (Well, the sound of brakes squeaking, not tires! Talk about
"anti-lock" brakes!) One u-turn (not the only one on the trip!) and
another toll, several more hours wasted, and we were on the right track!

Once in Wisconsin, at my sister's farm in Fall River, near Madison, I
was able to fix the fuel gauge, (a broken connecter on the sending unit)
and the rear heater (wire that was once spliced had come loose), and
decided to install a throttle lock (aka "cruise control") that I removed
from the other Rover I have at home. (Yes! Robed it from the "88".) Fate
once again took her toll, (What I deserve for cannibalizing the "88")
and I drilled through the clutch line to the slave cylinder. Dooh!! Had
to wait until Monday for parts store to open, then had to re-use my line
ends and they made a "new" line for me. To add insult to injury, the
throttle lock wouldn't fit right, so it never got installed.

The remainder of the trip was rather uneventful, lots of beautiful
sights, snow, lots of people staring at the Rover... a great time! Total
distance traveled (using milage charts, and adding numbers on maps) over
4600 miles! Not bad for a 25 year old truck! (Am I dumb? Or what??)

Land Rover sightings other than at Rovers North: 1-88 (vermont) 1-109
(Vermont-red, parked behind a barn) 1-Disco in Montreal, and 1-110 in
Moab Utah, (#466/500) (I can't wait to get back to Moab Utah. Very
beautiful!) and about 12-18 Range Rovers. (One RR owner offered to
trade, but I don't think he was really serious.)

Trip statistics: (somewhat estimated) ;-) # of vehicles that I passed,
around 12 (many of these re-passed me on the level roads.) # of vehicles
that passed me: 550. Maximum speed: 80ish? downhill. Minimum speed up
steep hills: around 25, 2nd gear, floored. (Actually, on a long hill
climb, 3rd was too slow, and 2nd would wind out, so I ended up at around
3/4 throttle in 2nd.) (This didn't make a lot of people very happy with
me!) :( And offers to buy the ole gal: 2, one was very serious! Why
doesn't anyone want my Disco??

Thanks for the ear... Dave.

 #=====#         #========#          ------,___
 |___|__\___     |___|__|__\___      |--'|  |  \_|_
 | _ |   |_ |}   | _ |  |   |_ |}    |  _|--+--|_  |
 "(_)""""(_)"    "(_)"""""""(_)"    ||_/_\__|__/_\_|}
                                       (_)    (_)
 1971 "88" IIa   1970 "109" IIa     1994 Discovery (for sale $30,500)
                                                   (Too hard to "draw")

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 May 95 10:21:25 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  '88 RANGEROVER -- AUTO TRANS SUMP

This job is the one maintenance task I usually get the dealer to do, but it
can be done at home with a bit of time and patience. The problem is you have to 
remove the middle chassis crossmember, which unbolts ok but then you need
to spread the chassis rails slightly to make it drop out easily. The dealers
have a special tool to do this but I imagine you could use a jack and some 
home made arrangement. You also have to disconnect the exhaust at the manifold and drop it a bit
and drop it a bit. In my (factory) workshop manual it makes no mention of
any of this, but perhaps they have updated the manual since I got mine.

Good luck

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

From: srbrown@sair020.energylan.sandia.gov
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 14:09:01 -0600
Subject: Battery light and Tachometer on `88 RR

Dear Clever LR/RR Troubleshooters,

Last week on a long drive to the north (Salt Lake City and Yellowstone
National Park) a new problem cropped up on my 1988 Range Rover. At
night, the temps got down to about 40ish and when I started the truck
in the morning, the battery idiot light and the tachometer acted flaky
simultaneously. Specifically, the battery light flickered and the
tachometer went from jumping up and down to not working at all. A few
revs of the engine or shutting the thing off and on again produced a
sudden change in tone of the engine and the problem disappeared. Each
morning the same thing, not to be repeated throughout the day -- even
when the truck had been sitting unused for several hours. A friendly
mechanic near Old Faithful tested the battery voltage, the alternator
output -- engine off, engine on - with and without lights -- and said
everything seemed ducky (of course it wasn't acting up at that
moment). I made it back home some 1000 miles with no problems of any
kind. It did it again the first morning back in New Mexico, temp 55-60
deg. 

Any hints as to what the problem might be? 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 /==============\
 | `63  |  IIa  |          Stephen Brown
 |______|_______| 	   Geomechanics Department, MS-0751
 /___/^^^^^^\___\9	   Sandia National Laboratories
 |oo|(@)##(@)|oo|	   Albuquerque, New Mexico 87185
 |  | [####] |  |
 ======%%%%======	   email: srbrown@sandia.gov
 {*}={&&}====={*}
 {*}          {*}
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 16:58:48 -0400
Subject: Front axle problems

I recently purchased a 67 SIIa which is running adequately but needs help.
 Whenever I shift into 4wd, either high or low range, I feel and hear an
intermittant clunk with a momentary loss of power.  It is not speed
dependant, gear dependant or terrain dependant.
I have replaced the freewheel hubs with minimal improvement.
I suspect the U joint of the half axle.  A friend suggested a way of testing
this:
Jack up the front axle. 
Lock the hubs (4x4)
Rotate the wheel
If the front propeller shaft doesn't move, the U joint is bad

When I tried this, the right side did rotate the propellar shaft but the left
side did not.
Any suggestions?
Nate
NADdMD@aol.com
Boring, MD
(410)429-4964

------------------------------

From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 17:06:57 -0500
Subject: Wing Holes

Why is the hole present on the right side wing of some series Rovers?
My '66 IIa 88 doesn't have one, and I haven't been able to tell why some
models have this and some don't. Is there a cool option that I'm missing?

Curious,

Tim
'66 IIa 88 SW
---
tim harincar                         moore graphic services
harincar@internet.mdms.com           minneapolis, mn

------------------------------

Date: 23 May 95 18:16:24 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Tyres and innertubes

(this thread was going on before the Digest spun out of orbit...)

Well, apart from the basic rules, such as *not* to fit tubeless ti(y)res on
tube (Series) rims and not to run tubes in tubeless tires, the bottom line
seems to be: Shit happens  -  to some more, to others less. I've given
tubeless BFGs the most punishing treatment off-road, ripping out chunks of
tread, but never had a flat with them, and on a 11,000 km trip overland
through the Middle East and up Egypt to Abu Simbel with almost bald Avon
Rangemasters on a 109 I had no problems, while another vehicle from our
group with the _exact same tires_ (but not so worn) had 10 flats on that
journey! If you got bad cards you loose either way...  Just another
encouraging note from

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 16:10:03 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Wing Holes

 Tim Harincar <harincar@internet.mdms.com> writes:

>Why is the hole present on the right side wing of some series Rovers?
>My '66 IIa 88 doesn't have one, and I haven't been able to tell why some
>models have this and some don't. Is there a cool option that I'm missing?

 Foldaway wing mirrors on the top holes of each wing.  One the right side
 of Series III, about 3-4" diameter, is an air intake for the cabin heater.

 Michael Carradine    Carradine Studios                   Tel.500-442-6500
 Architect            Architecture Development Planning   Pgr.510-945-5000
 NCARB RIBA           PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA           cs@crl.com

 Unimog 4x4 WWW page at http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 16:13:51 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Tyres and innertubes

 "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> writes about Rovers, and life:

>The bottom line seems to be: Shit happens  -  to some more, to others less. 
 If you got bad cards you loose either way...  Just another encouraging note

 Amen to that!

 Michael Carradine    Carradine Studios                   Tel.500-442-6500
 Architect            Architecture Development Planning   Pgr.510-945-5000
 NCARB RIBA           PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA           cs@crl.com

 Unimog 4x4 WWW page at http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 95 16:22:46 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  Battery light and Tachometer on `88 RR

Strange you should mention this -- the same problem happened to me a couple of
times recently on startup, I think when moisture was in the air. My half-
hearted investigation of the circuit diagram indicate the tachometer and 
ignition warning light are intertwined via a beastly control module black box
which seems to have a finger in the pie of all the warning systems etc. 
Funnily enough, the oil pressure warning light also came on after startup
a few days later, causing me to get a new oil pressure sensor. 

All these things are currently in abeyance, but maybe only temporarily!

After years of RR experience, I have developed a cavalier disregard of
warning lights sincve the problem always seems to be the sensors 
and electronics rather than whatever the warning is supposed to be about.
However if you get to the bottom of this problem I am willing to reform and
try to apply the same solution to my vehicle.

Please keep me posted

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

From: Kelly Minnick <minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: Oil Pressure
Date: Tue, 23 May 95 16:55:07 PDT

RE: Oil Pressure
I have a '73 USA SIII with a Smith oil pressure gauge.  Seems the gauge or
the sending unit is not working.  Does anyone out there with a working unit
know what the resistance should read at 0 psi, idle (20-25 psi) and reved
(60 psi)???  Does anyone know the part # for the sending unit???  Is a 
mechanical replacement better? (trying to keep it stock, but...)

Also, the Lucas alt. give the following:
14.2V idle, no load      14.0V reved no load
10.6V idle, lights on...  12.3V reved, lights on.

During the loaded procedure, the charge light does not come on.  Why?
Shouldn't it?

What about the Delco single wire 61 amp?  What year Chevy is this from?
Will it work on the Lucas alt. mount, or do I need the generator mount?
Later
Kelly Minnick  '73 88" Safari & '91 RR
Ridgecrest, CA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 19:15:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Wing Holes

The cool hole on the Land Rover wing is for a "cool" heater.  It is the 
place you suck in -40 degree air and change it to -38 degree air and then 
place it in the cab of your Land Rover.  It sounds like you have the 
older Smith's heater and not the little improved type.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: 23 May 95 20:38:12 EDT
From: "WILLIAM  L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: Fuel gauges

Welcome back digest, I missed ya!  Hi all, hope you had a good holiday.

Mike Slade...
  Your fuel gauge is faulty if you have a reading with the tank sender
disconnected.  The instrument is a milli ammeter and reads the current through
the instrument which is varied by the rheostat in the tank sender. For you to
have a reading without the sender says that the instrument is passing current ,
perhaps a short circuit in the cable or a goosed gauge.
 There are two types of gauge  / tank sender unit combinations, the early non
regulated types, the sender has a removable lid on it and the later voltage
compensated type, these have a 10 v voltage stabilizer mounted on the rear of
the instument panel, this dampens the instrument needle action, and the sender
has a flat top with one or two spade connections ( petrol -one and diesel 2 ).
 To test the gauge remove the output wire from the rear, if you have a reading
the instrument is faulty, if no reading check the lead to the sender for a short
circuit, perhaps the wire has been trapped by the floor or the seat base. Also
try to short the  lead end to earth, you should have full scale deflection, a
full reading. Then look at the sender using an ohmmeter to check the rheostat.
 If it is the voltage compensated type circa 68 on ? measure the output of the
regulator.  it should be 10 v with the ignition on.
 Incidentally the two types of systems can not be mixed and matched without some
electrical skills, the resistance of the two senders is different, also beware
there are also 24 volt systems.

  Regards   Bill  Leacock     Limey in exile.

------------------------------

From: mccauley@hba.trumpet.com.au (Tim McCauley)
Subject: Chassis Rot
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 10:54:51 LOCAL

Hello again List We've missed you.

I posted a while ago asking for some suggestions for dealing with the steering damper
on our LWB IIA. There was lots of good feedback from the list and that problem is
well in hand.

But you know how it is, one thing leads to another.

What started out as a attending to a fairly obvious deficiency in the steering has snow-
balled. In the process we removed the front wings, ( I use the UK term, in preference
to the US fenders or Australian guards in deference to the vehicles origins), to make
access easier.

With the firewall now exposed it seemed a good time to tackle some rust around the
door hinges and at the bottom of the grill panel. Job done. Previous repairs of the
plastic variety were made good with real metal and finished with a coat of shiny new
paint.

"A coat of shiny new paint." Oh no!

The rest of the body now screeched out for relief from finger-paint it was  previously
clothed in. Of course if the body is to be painted properly we really should tackle all
those other cosmetic, and as it turned out, not so cosmetic deficiencies.

Anyway to cut a long story short ( and relieve another cliche of the boredom of 
waiting in the wings ), the landy is now stripped to the chassis and undergoing major 
reconstructive surgery. 

On looking closely at the chassis we discovered that the area around the rear damper
mounts was in dire need of attention. I cut the top of the chassis rail away, replaced it
with good metal and then reconstructed the mounts themselves. Job done.

However while the top was off the rail it was plain that the dread tin worm had gained
a foot hold in the inner layer of the bottom of the chassis in the part arching over the
rear axle.

Now to the real reason for this posting, apart from a warning not to be to kind to you
Landy or it will take advantage of you, the area that is showing signs of rot has a
double skin. Is this original or a sign of an earlier repair?

The outer skin is tapered at both ends and attached over the actual bottom of the
chassis with intermittent four inch runs of weld. I blame the double skin for the onset
of rust in this area, aggravated by the fact that the welds are not continuous allowing
the ingress of moisture. 

So do I need to maintain this double skin for strength and if so are there any contra-
indications to attaching it with a continuous weld? 

I am looking at replacing around three feet of the bottom skin. Any hints on
preventing distortion in the process would be appreciated also. 

Tim 
For Tim And Jenny inc.

  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 21:59:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Wing Holes

On Tue, 23 May 1995, David John Place wrote:

> The cool hole on the Land Rover wing is for a "cool" heater.  It is the 
> place you suck in -40 degree air and change it to -38 degree air and then 
> place it in the cab of your Land Rover.  It sounds like you have the 
> older Smith's heater and not the little improved type.  Dave VE4PN

	You mean the Kodiak heater that made the -40 degree air a balmy
	-36 degree air.  A $92.50 option in 1963 for those south of
	the border unless they ordered the "Canadian Arctic Kit" that
	gave a few other toasty goodies...

	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 22:30:54 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Sending units

Fuel sending units are difficult/impossible to repair.  Basically a tiny 
guage wire (read:hair thin) wrapped around a bakelite insulator, it should 
read 3 - 35 ohms over the range.  Even after cleaning mine up, it still read 
erratically in bench testing.

It may be possible to replace the unit with a Chrysler sending unit, as 
Chrysler uses the same resistance in many applications.  JC Witless lists 
one for around $7 and it might be possible to adapt one.

I'll be posting more Camel Trophy news tomorrow: the US is in sixth place 
after the first group of special tasks.  Poland leads.
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: Brian Neill Tiedemann <s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: salisbury...
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 15:21:18 +1000 (EST)

Hello again,
happy to see the return of this unmistakably BRITISH electrical 
device.... :}
To answer Tony's question of yesterday, it is not actually difficult to 
convert a drum brake 3.54 salisbury to discs. I am making some caliper 
mount plates which attatch to the back of the backplate flange on the 
housing ends. These are spaced back from the flange with another plate. 
All six of the bolts normally used to hold the backplate will now secure 
the caliper mount (overkill as the caliper itself is only held by two 
bolts of the same diameter, but at least i know that it will NEVER shift).
I am using standard RR calipers onto the standard disc/hub as the bearing 
inner diameter is the same as the salisbury stub axle, but the drive 
flange bolt pattern on the RR hub is slightly smaller in overall 
diameter, whilst still being 5 bolt- typical...same but not same enough 
to be actually useful (most previous LRs had 6 bolt drive flanges, these 
are 5, but it seems too hard to make them match other family members like 
the RR). The immediate fix for this is to use the salisbury drive flange 
but file (yuk) a small amount from the inside of each hole until the 
pattern fits... it is not much to remove. If you remove too much or are 
nervous, then Loctite might provide filler/peace of mind. The brake lines 
are long enough and with a little GENTLE re-bending will screw right in 
to the RR caliper. That's it for the discs...
The rest is for RR fitting. All other mounting considerations are basically 
identical: the radius rods need no alteration at all, just bolt them on; 
the A-frame ball joint as well; shock absorber mounts, however are 
slightly different on the RR... one goes forward, one backward, wheras a 
def/county/110 has both forward facing. I have the corresponding mount 
for the chasis from the county which surrendered its diff, and by adding 
some holes and crush tubes to the chasis, the shockers are taken care of. 
The pinion housing of the salisbury is longer, so my tailshaft will need 
to be cut/balanced to finish basic fitting. A nice add on for road use at 
least might be the light sway bar from the county... doesn't look too 
hard to adapt, and I can always disconnect it if offroading demands it.
Anyone got an opinion of how much difference the sway bar would make to 
the car overall.... restrictive offroad? worth anything on road? anybody 
disconnected it on a county/defender/110? what changed?

By the way, my quest for a strong diff was accelerated on last Saturday 
afternoon, as my (rover) rear spat out one pinion gear and detoothed the 
other, munching the carrier at the same time, and breaking the cross 
shaft. Crown and pinion are ok, spares for the beefed up front I guess.... 
 front wheel drive again, and not just an axle this time, oh well.

Hopefully the Salisbury/locker combo won't take too long to assemble, as 
winter is almost here.

Leaks but I luv it...
77 RR 2WD (for now)
Brian Tiedemann (S914440@minyos.xx.rmit.edu.au)

          <*snap*>     _______   @*#!!
                      / /  |  \___
           >*clunk*<  \_ ^ ___ ^ _:   >>X              ...............
                        {*}   {*}      ............./
                 ...................../
................/

------------------------------

From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 03:40:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Battery light and Tachome...

>>>>Seems that John Brabyn and others don't trust warning
lights.............>>>>>Here's mine.

1988  Range Rover.....Oil pressure/level warning light is on now and has been
for over a year now.    At first I replaced the pressure sending unit located
at the oil filter assembly.......No Luck.      Next,  at the phone suggestion
of the 'service manager' of the Rover dealer in Charlotte (NC),  I replaced
the oil level sending unit located in the sump.   Still No Luck.    Next
phone suggestion from the 'service manager'  was to replace a black plastic
box under the dash (forgot the name and part #)  at which point I said 'Hell
with it'.....I keep the oil checked carefully,  and occasionally hook a
manual guage to the beast, which always shows book-perfect pressure.    I've
just learned to live with the red glow on the dash.    All new passengers are
quick to point out that "Hey! your oil lights on!"   I've learned to condense
the story into a short explanation to assure them that the engine is not
gonna explode while they are with me.     Any suggestions however are
welcome.  
Rick Crider     <rickcrider@aol.com>
'73  88"  SIII
'88  Range  Rover
Monroe   NC

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 35 lines 1490 [forwarded 42 whitespace 331]
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