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Subject: Who is going to the ARC Nationals ?
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 06:46:15 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

Drop me a note and I'll put together a list....

Which stateside Rover clubs will be represented ? 
	and by whom ?   John H ? Jim P ?  Sandy G ?  Dennis ?

So far, I know that: 

	Bill 'limey in exile' L. is returning home for it (Penine Club)
	Stefan J & Gunter (LRC of Hessen, DE)
	Bill C. (me !) will be there (Pennine Club)

So Respond directly to me and we'll make plans...

    Cheers,
	--bill	caloccia@Team.Net	<web: "http://www.senie.com/billc/">
		caloccia@Stratus.Com

      1  3     dl OD  L           "Land Rover's first, because
      |--|--+  o  |   |            Land Rovers last."
      2  4  R  ul N   H           '72 Range Rover
				  (back on the road)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:05:15 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: OVLR goings-on

Okay all you folks from up north...  A couple questions...  I'll be in 
Ottawa for the Birthday bash, could I perchance ride along with someone?  
Second, anyone know of a good, inexpensive place to stay in Ottawa?  (I'll 
check my youth hostel guide and Let's Go, of course.)  And lastly, what's 
the inside scoop on the goings-on for Canada Day?

I wish I could stick around for Quatorze across the river (do they 
celebrate it there?), but I do have to work sometimes!  <g>  Oh, do they 
sell beaver tails in the summer?  Mmmm-mmm!!!

Thanks in advance!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Adjusting swivel pin pre-load
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:10:12 +0930 (CST)

Peter asks:
> Can you please give some details how to adjust the preload of the swivels?

Details of this procedure are given in every manual I've seen
(Haynes, Autobook, Factory).  

1.. Basic "proper" way.  Jack up axle housing, support on stands.
   Remove road wheel and tie rod end(s).
   Remove swivel seal retainer and seal.   these dont have to be removed from
   the axle just out the way of the ball.
   Using a spring balance (scales) measure the effort required at the tie rod
   eye mount to turn the swivel, after the initial inertia is over come.
   check manual for  settings  10 - 18 lb range depending on vehicle.
   Adjust by removing shims from the upper pivot point.  Dont forget to
   support the bottom of the housing when you undo the top pivot point.

   "reassemble is reverse of dissasembly"

2. Crooks way  (the way I do it)  when the kick-back becomes pronounced,
remove a shim (thin ones) or two from the upper pivot then drive it.....
 Ok so sometimes you overdo it.....   My left is currently a bit tight but
the right one is spot on.. I checked it when i replaced the seal.
I seem to have to do the right about once every 2-3 years and the left about
once every 18 months.. (ie more frequently than the right)  Note this is a
RHD vehicle in a RHD country, the left wheel hits *Lots* more pot holes.

cheers
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:13:18 +0200 (GMT+0200)
From: Donald Abbot <donald@spl.co.za>
Subject: Re: Steering dampers

My Series II had the unpleasant habit of wandering all over the road. Any
driver without the required knack tended to drive a zig-zag route. I tried
to correct the problem by replacing the damper with a "super"  damper made
by Safe-T-Plus. This thing had two large opposing springs in it and the
literature stated that it should correct wandering and that it should
self-centre. 

On route to Malawi, we were half way across Mocambique's Tete province
when I decided to replace the new damper with the original. The steering
had gotten worse. In fact, by the time we reached Blantyre, I was swinging
the steering wheel about ninety degrees from side to side just to keep the
truck in a straight line. The following morning, after drowning my
sorrows, and not feeling too good about our situation I started to look
for some way to sort out the steering. With somebody turning the steering
wheel and another holding a front wheel steady, I noticed that the drop
arm was loose. This had been the problem all along. After tightening the
nut and repacking the vehicle, she now drives like a dream. 

Considering that I wasted R2500 (about US$715) on the "super" damper, I
only rue the fact that it is not yet opening time. 

------------------------------

From: Vel Natarajan <nataraja@cig.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminium Annealing
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 04:26:50 -0500 (CDT)

>From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
>Subject: Aluminium annealing

>Does anyone have any experience annealing aluminium after beating out 
>minor dents in body panels?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>by when "oil" applied to the surface being annealed turns clear.  Has 
>anyone tried this?  I assume he means fresh motor oil.  Is this correct?

I thought I remember flipping through a (recent?) copy of LRO or LRW
and seeing something on this.  I thought that it stated the temp is
judged when you see the oil smoke.  I assumed fresh motor oil as well.
If you want, I'll try to dig up the copy and I can post/mail the exact
reference.  Let me know.

Vel
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vel Natarajan                            Phone:  +44-793-541541 x5529
Motorola Inc.                            Fax:    +44-793-430-987
European Cellular Infrastructure Group   Mobile: +49-171-854-6670
16 Euro Way,                             Email:
Blagrove, Swindon,                          nataraja@ecid.cig.mot.com
England, SN5 8YQ
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Vel Natarajan <nataraja@cig.mot.com>
Subject: Warwick 4x4 opinions...
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 04:51:37 -0500 (CDT)

In my continuing quest for a vehicle while I'm in England, I've
decided to pursue all avenues.  So deviating from the Auto Trader
route, I took a drive up to Kenilworth last weekend and stopped in at
Warwick 4x4.

They seem to be pretty good at what they do, and really take the time
to talk to you and then walk you around the entire shop.  They sit
down with you and quote you a price on a vehicle to your exact
specifications.  In my case, it was a fully refurbished pre-'68 109,
galvanized chassis, new Fairey O/D, unleaded cyl-head)

Does anyone have any opinions, or experiences, or heard anything at
all about them?

The price was darn expensive, but I've been getting a bit discouraged
when every time I've called about a vehicle which looked really good,
it's been sold already.  (I expected the good ones to go fast, but not
that fast.)  So I'm just looking at all options...

Vel
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vel Natarajan                            Phone:  +44-793-541541 x5529
Motorola Inc.                            Fax:    +44-793-430-987
European Cellular Infrastructure Group   Mobile: +49-171-854-6670
16 Euro Way,                             Email:
Blagrove, Swindon,                          nataraja@ecid.cig.mot.com
England, SN5 8YQ
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:07:29 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Screen Wipers

Howdy list:

Does anyone remember which (very recent) issue of LRO Intl. had the
article on rebuilding your old-style wiper motors?  It was one I didn't
buy, but borrowed from a friend.  I'm trying to find the article without
rummaging through his entire stack of issues. 

Cheers,
Charlie

------------------------------

Date: 24 Apr 95 09:19:17 EDT
From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: UK Member help solicited

Folks:

I am trying to get my D90 sorted out and have decided on a few mods.

First, I have mounted the pintle hook (NATO Military with full 360 swivel) onto
an adapter so it will work on the Class III box hitch that is standard on the
U.S. Spec vehicles.  I would have mounted the hitch right to the rear
crossmember, but the rear step on U.S. Spec vehicles makes that impossible.  Now
I can pull my trailer and put the D90 to work!

I ordered a spare tire cover from Whitney.  I liked the LR one with the logo,
but it was $45 vs $15 for a plain charcol one to match the top...

The next modification I want to make is to install a UK Spec. inward-facing rear
bench seat on  the fenderwell behind the passenger seat.  I am not planning on
adding seat belts as I will generally only use the the rear jumpseats when the
vehicle is parked (at least, that is how I use it in my current IIa).

I have looked through a copy of LRO magazine and found a several UK suppliers
who list the seats at prices ranging from 41 - 68 Pounds (minus 14.9% VAT) so I
definitely think it will be worth my while to order from the UK directly even
with shipping and duty.

My questions are:   

1.  Is the "Neptune" cloth the closest match for the U.S. Spec. Seat cloth?  It
looks closest in some pictures in the magazine.  A perfect match is not a
necessity, but if I can match it, I want to try.

2.  When the ad refers to Bench Seat, is it refering to an inward facing seat?
I have seen references to  Forward Facing, Inward Facing and just Bench Seats
and want to make sure I order the right item.

3.  Does anyone have a specific recommendation on what companies to contact
(most reputable, etc.)  and which to avoid.

Finally, I would like to find a lockable steel storage box to bolt to the other
fenderwell (opposite the seat).  It needs to be dimensioned to be able to hold a
pair of double-barrel shotguns.   If it has racks inside, that is great.  If
not, I can fabricate them myself.   Does anyone over in the UK know a source for
such an item?

Thanks for the help... 

R. Pierce Reid

------------------------------

From: Bill Yerazunis <crash@concentra.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:45:19 -0400
Subject: Gotchas of the Suburban vs. the Rangie

There is one gotcha.

In five years, the suburban will look like a Piece of ****.  It will
also ride like one, start like one, and be worth about $4000.  And you'll
go shopping for a new vehicle.

In five years, the Range Rover will still look new.  Your wife may be tired 
of it, but you won't be able to rationalize that "it's kinda old, it ought
to be replaced."  And since YOU will still love it, you and your wife will
have a tremendous falling-out, leading to a divorce.  She gets the kids,
the house, the dog.  You get the alimony, but you get to keep the Rover.

:-)

	-Crash

------------------------------

From: Kelly Minnick <minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: Pressure
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 6:56:43 PDT

RE: Oil Pressure Gauge
I have a '73 USA market SWB that doesn't seem to be giving me good oil
pressure readings.  The resistence from the sending unit is as such:
35 ohms - 0 psi
26 ohms - idle
17 ohms - fast idle
The meter has a resistence of 60.5 ohms and is hooked to 12V power (not the
stabalizer).  Any suggestions?  Anyone know what the LR part number is for
the sending unit?
Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari & '91 RR
Ridgecrest, CA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:06:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: OVLR goings-on

On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Roger Sinasohn wrote:

> Okay all you folks from up north...  A couple questions...  I'll be in 
> Ottawa for the Birthday bash, could I perchance ride along with someone?  

	Ben is supposed to be driving from China Lake in his trusty Land
	Rover, though I expect the trip to take a little longer than in
	something more modern.

> Second, anyone know of a good, inexpensive place to stay in Ottawa?  (I'll 
> check my youth hostel guide and Let's Go, of course.)  

	Hostel is right downtown next to the Rideau Centre.  Used to be
	the gaol.  Neat place, stayed there a number of times before I
	moved to Ottawa.  Brithday Party is outside the city by about
	sixty miles (west-southwest of the city at Silver Lake.  There is
	a provincial Park right next to the land where the Birthday party
	will be.  There is camping/shower facilities there.  Camping space
	will bet available at the site itself.  The real degenerates can
	stay at a motel about 1/4 mile away.  In the city if you are 
	about for a while

> And lastly, what's the inside scoop on the goings-on for Canada Day?

	Lots of stuff, but the easy way is to phome the tourism office
	at (800) 465-867

> I wish I could stick around for Quatorze across the river (do they 
> celebrate it there?), but I do have to work sometimes!  <g>  Oh, do they 
> sell beaver tails in the summer?  Mmmm-mmm!!!

	Quatorze?  Beaver tails are available in the Market in the summer.
	:-)

	Rgds,

------------------------------

From: JDolan2109@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:10:56 -0400
Subject: Oops, Winch/block

In my attempt to over simplify, I might have been wrong about that winch and
block generalization. Or maybe even backwards. Just disregard that part,
please. I've been trying to visualize a winch and pulley setup since posting,
thinking you folks would tear in to me if I was wrong. Most of my experience
comes from using comealongs and ropes/chains anyway.
If anyone is parting with a *complete* capstan setup, or has available parts
associated with the 'drive plate and flange' for a IIA, please advise. One
member offered a unit from a Series I, w/o plate & flange. Only place those
parts can be found by me is from RN as a complete repair kit at a cost in
excess of 300 $US. That would make that route cost ineffecient. Would looking
for these parts (or entire unit) on the other side of the pond help?
See 'ya on the old road...
Jim  '61 88" SW / OD, 1 Bbl weber & 16's   (econobox?)
LR...quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised!
   

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:15:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Birmabright

On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Lapa, Hank wrote:

>      Question about the aluminum skin, trade name Birmabright, of L-Rs:  Is 
>      this alloy sheet of consistent composition throughout its 
>      cross-section, 

	Yes, except for a layer of paint on either side that is.  Actually
	I am not sure if the stuff used for the past thirty years or
	so is actually "Burmabright".  Through the 50's to the 70's at least
	the aluminium used in Land Rover bodies came from Canada made by
	Alcan, most probably in their huge plants near Lake St. Jean.

>      Another Birmabright question:  Is the skin of modern L-Rs the same 
>      Birmabright as on my old Series car?  If different, how?

	D90's have much thinner body panels that the Series vehicles did.
	Beyond that, I am not sure.

>      Lastly, Birmabright trivia:  Some of the specialty fasteners used in 
>      the construction of RMS Queen Mary were made of Birmabright, this from 
>      a 1930s advert I recently saw offered in a catalog.  Perhaps I should 
>      have purchased this ocean liner collectible as a pseudo-Land-Rover 
>      collectable!

	Again, I recall reading that while the first Land Rovers were
	Birmabright, it changed to something else (straight aluminium or
	some alloy) early in the 1950's)

	Rgds,

------------------------------

From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:52:28 -0500
Subject: Matchbox questions

Okay toy Land Rover collectors, maybe someone can help me. I found the
die-cast body of a Matchbox Land Rover in a box of old cars that I have.
I checked one of the Web pages, but there was no info about this particular
model.

Specs - The toy dates from the 60s or early 70s. Thats the time when my
grandfather was finding me all my cars at garages sales, etc.

The model is a Series II/IIA 109 SW (has the roof windows cut out). Mine
is painted in an aqua blue. It had some type off roof rack - I seem to 
remember it having two tires mounted on the top, side by side. The license
plate number is NMH449.

Anybody have a series number of this one? I'd like to try and find one in
good shape. 

Thanks for the info...

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@internet.mdms.com
'66 IIA 88 SW

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:54:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" <swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: NEW FAMILY MEMBER!

Guess what everyone!
IT's HERE!
I just got my new rover...and as soon as I get my feet back on the ground 
and do the total inspection, I will give you a full report.  Until then, 
please welcome:

			Mr. Moose
			1973 Series III 88" Station Wagon
			Resides in Tampa, Florida (NOW)

I can't express the excitement, the room is fully charged...
Happy roverin'
steve
swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:13:11 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Slade <SLCN3@cc.usu.edu>
Subject: general questions...

I've got a few qustions, and was wondering if anyone knew the correct answers. 
Forgive me if theri a bit trivial but, oh well here goes.

1.  My 66 '88 IIA has a steering damper on it that is leaking oil.  Is it wise
to:
	A:  Leave it on
	B:  Replace it
	C:  Remove and not replace

I wouldn't know what it's like to drive the thing without it, and as I do
actually get off road at least twice a week, would like to know possible
advantages/disadvantages to all of the options.

2.  Same LR has a Rochester carb on it (no I didn't install it) which even
after a complete rebuild still has a huge lag just off of idle.  It seems to
run well with the cold start knob pulled out just under half-way.  Will running
the choke open like that reduce power?  Milage?  Engine wear?

3.  Loading a canoe onto a safari roof.  Are there points on the roof that will
support the weight of a relatively light (79 lbs.) canoe w/out a rack?  Read
Yakima rack comments with great interest, and was inspired to sell mine. 
Should I get another one to mount the canoe on the roof?

4.  Watched 'Red Dawn' on TBS yesterday.  Was it my imagination or did I see a
109 painted black without the top on it with the word Wolverines painted on the
side?  Just wondering if I was hallucinating.

Any help would be greatly appreciated in regards to the more serious questions.

Sincerely,

Michael

'66 88 IIA (still for sale)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 08:30:26 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Matchbox questions

What you have there is the Matchbox #12, Safari Land Rover.  Supposed to 
have a roof rack on top with boxes and barrels -- no tires.  Came in blue, 
green, and metallic gold.  The roof rack was either light or dark brown.  
Value is around $10 for the blue & green and a little more for the gold in 
mint condition.  Keep an eye out at antique stores.  Also, if there's a big 
antique show coming up in your area, check that out as there may very well 
be a dealer who specializes in toy cars. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:14:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Spoto <tspoto@kristina.az.com>
Subject: Lewiston California Rover Parts

Just finished ordering some parts from Tom and asked about the 800 phone 
line. He said it was'nt paying for itself so he got rid of it. I have no 
qualms ordering from him. I've always found him helpful and informative, 
and I've dealt with him off and on now since 1976.
Regards
Tom Spoto  72 88 daily driver,  67 88 project, 72 88 next project.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Gotchas of the Suburban vs. the Rangie 
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:19:11 -0400
From: "Jeff Young" <young@mci.net>

well, i'm hooked down that path.  we bought it.  

after some fancy dealing, i talked the guy down to 
a price that was within $500 of the price of the suburban.
we picked it up yesterday.  I even got a $8000 trade on
a '90 jeep cherokee laredo with 90K miles.  the suburban
guy offered me $6500.  

i am in awe.

i first drove a RR in 1985.  i was working for a small plastics
manuf. and we were hired to make some inside plastics-pieces
parts for the dome lights by LRNA.  they lent us a vehicle to
do final qc.  i got to drive it one day.  I was hooked.  I never
thought that i'd have one.  I've drooled over them ever since,
own numerous toys and books and now i have one.  it's in my garage.
I even went out and threw 1500# of decking lumber in the back
this weekend - it never noticed.  I can't wait to get it out on 
a camping/hunting/fishing excursion.  

I will be accused of being a yuppy by everyone i know, i don't care.
Pulling my friends pickup out of the cornfield before a goose hunt
will be all that much sweeter.  

In the years to come, i look forward to the day when my 3 year old
asks for the keys...

Jeff Young
young@mci.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:52:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: general questions...

On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Mike Slade wrote:

> 1.  My 66 '88 IIA has a steering damper on it that is leaking oil.  Is it 
>     wise to:
>.
	Loose it.

> I wouldn't know what it's like to drive the thing without it, and as I do
> actually get off road at least twice a week, would like to know possible

	Don't wrap your thumbs around the steering wheel.  It will turn
	easier without the thing there.  Your steering system will probably
	last longer.

> 2.  Same LR has a Rochester carb on it (no I didn't install it) which even
> after a complete rebuild still has a huge lag just off of idle.  

	Dump the rochester.  Get a weber or zenith if the problem is the carb.
	How's the timing?

	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:05:51 +0200
From: wills@spl.co.za (William Smith)

Hi LROs 
I've recently requested info regarding rust. Due to the responses I managed
to fix it - by grinding away the rust and welding in new 3 mm steel plates.
Just came back from a trip to our east coast (Just below KOSI bay) and not 
a single problem. BTW it was a magnificent trip - I can recommend it for 
anybody in/coming to SA. Lots of sand and low range driving. Looking at a 
map it is on the coastal side of LAKE SIBAYI.

At the same time I replaced the bushes in the leaf springs - it took care of 
the landy veering to the left on-road. Had to put a jack between the leaf spring
mounting and the axle to line it up for the U-bolts.
 
A question: I've got a 4 cyl 2286 petrol engine (8:1 CR). Timing is set at
            TDC with 93 Octane (still leaded) fuel.
            Going down to the coast I used 97 Octane fuel and the exhaust
            burned a lot whiter than the usual grey colour. Is this due to
            the higher octane fuel ?

Winching: Although everybody should stand clear when doing any winching
          we normally throw a thick blanket over the cable. This slows the 
          recoil down when the cable snaps and cut down on vehicle damage.

Birmabright: I use a match (or any piece of similar wood) and pull it over the
             metal when heating it. If it's brownish, it's fine. Black means
             too hot - at this stage you're probably melted it already.

Cheers
  ------------------------------------------------------------------
  William Smith                 Email: wills@SPLinux.spl.co.za
  SPL                           Voice: +27 (0)11 322 2117
  Johannesburg                  Fax  : +27 (0)11 322 2232
  South Africa                  Cell : 082 455 1816
  ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: BobandSueB@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:38:58 -0400
Subject: Atlantic British of California

>Chris Whitehead wrote that he had a problem with Tom at A/B parts >of Ca.
I talked to Tom today and read him the message. He will be calling Chris to
straighten it out.
For the information part though, he is not out of business, but he is
associated with British Rovers,and They Cancelled the 800#'s along with
merging with/into DAP. Tom Gannon is still doing business and will be soon
DAP of California.His phone is 916-778-3937.

Bob Bernard
Paradise, CA.

------------------------------

From: Bill Yerazunis <crash@concentra.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:45:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Gotchas of the Suburban vs. the Rangie

Congratulations!

Now, just do the regular maintenance and you should expect that 
said 3-year-old will learn to drive on it.

	-Bill

------------------------------

Subject: Re: general questions... 
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:57:42 -0400
From: "Jeff Young" <young@mci.net>

anyone know the cost/availability of roof racks for RR's?
I've only ever seen one (sort of like the aluminum-basket-
on-four-feet type you might see on a d110) and it was in 
a book (taylor's range rover book).  

Jeff Young
young@mci.net

> 3.  Loading a canoe onto a safari roof.  Are there points on the roof that will
> support the weight of a relatively light (79 lbs.) canoe w/out a rack?  Read
> Yakima rack comments with great interest, and was inspired to sell mine. 
> Should I get another one to mount the canoe on the roof?
  

Posted-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:49:23 -0700
Subject: Re: OVLR goings-on 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:06:24 EDT."
             <199504241407.PAA01911@chunnel.uk.stratus.com> 
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:49:15 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Dixon Kenner wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Roger Sinasohn wrote:
> > Okay all you folks from up north...  A couple questions...  I'll be in 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> 	Rover, though I expect the trip to take a little longer than in
> 	something more modern.

	True.  My record for a New York-LA run in the Rover is 2.5 days, I 
tend to average 3.5 to 4 days though.  (for the non-US folks, its a 2800 mile
run)  I've taken my 88 from one coast to the other 6 times now.  Time for
driving is a factor of endurance and vehicle speed.  I tend to keep up (overall)
with the more modern vehicles, but then I put 18 to 20 hours in driving/
refueling/eating/restrooms, eat fast food, and sleep in rest areas.

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:54:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Neil E. Villacorta" <fm00vill@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu>
Subject: Selling RR & Def 110

I tried the best I can, but my friend and his father will leaving the Land
Rover marque due to "too many little things (and big things) not working."

This includes: bad rear seals (both cars); bad transmission (3-mos. after 
NEW purchase on Def 110); and various electronic problems.  Both are 
fairely new Landy's ('89 RR; '90 Def 110), and they have had it.

They both agree that they're impeccable off-road, and have a certain 
"mystique," but the little things added up.  They are now looking into 
the Toyota Landcruiser (perhaps they should try the Disco?)

Although they are willing to give me a very good deal on any of the 
Landy's, I too am suspect of the reliability, and in fact, they don't 
recommend I *ever* purchase a Landy.  

Am I to  assume that the Disco is much more reliable (?) since it is of 
fairly new lineage?

Help! I'd like to become a Landy owner but now I just don't know . . .

TIA,
:-( neil

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 15:27:42 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Temperature's rising

Bill Kaszer [willyz@aol.com] writes about Smith's oil temperature senders:
        I installed a sender (actually two) amny years ago.  Put one in the 
bottom of the transfer case (so I could see if the OD was heatin' things up 
too much) and another in the bottom of the oil pan near the drain plug.  
Wired the leads though a SPDT switch so's I only need one dial.  The engine 
oil always seems to run cooler than the coolant temp...I don't know why.  
The transfer case temps used to get up to 275 F on long, hot summer 
interstate runs...until I started using HiTach oil.  That dropped the 
summertime temps by 70 (!!) degrees.

Bruce McEaneny at British Rovers has recently moved/merged his operation.  
He has purchased Al Tocci's DAP Enterprises in Wareham, Mass and moved both 
shops to Springfield, Vermont, just off I-91.

Bruce had to drop his 800 phone number.  The problem was that there are a 
lot of isolated Rover owners out there, not on-line or in any club...just 
lonely souls with no other Roverfolk nearby.  These folks would call up 
Bruce just to shoot the shit (chat, for the vernacularly-challenged), but as 
it was an 800 number it was Bruce's dime.  He's a small operation and in the 
business to make a profit, so he just could't pay for someone to talk about 
four wheelin'.

Anyway, I've always gotten very prompt service from Bruce, and his prices 
are great.  His new number is 802-885-6660 or FAX him at 800-885-6662. Bruce 
is also a warehouse/distributor for Lucas/Girling, Warn Winch, Hi-Lift jacks 
and the US distributor for Bearmach.  For a while, he had an E-mail address, 
(at Prodigy) but I don't know if he is still/back on-line.

Now if he was a true entrepreneur, he'd have an interactive, mutli-media 
order form on-line....
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 15:46:20 -0400
From: stradley@acpub.duke.edu (J. David Stradley)
Subject: Coil spring on 89 RR

I am looking at an 89 RR.  The seller says he had someone look at the
vehicle who told him a coil spring may need to be replaced.  I have driven
the vehicle and  didn't feel anything unusual about the ride; however, that
may be because I didn't know what to look for.  How does a coil spring
problem show up in the ride of the truck?

Also, I am new to RRs.  When I drove this vehicle, I put it into low range
to make sure it worked. There was a noticeable jerk when I put the vehicle
into low range and when it shifted gears in low range.  I figured this was
just due to the torque in low range.  Is this jerk normal or indicative of
a problem?

J. David Stradley
<stradley@acpub.duke.edu>
<js1844@student.law.duke.edu>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:48:02 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Selling RR & Def 110

On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Neil E. Villacorta wrote:

> This includes: bad rear seals (both cars); bad transmission (3-mos. after 
> NEW purchase on Def 110); and various electronic problems.  Both are 

But bad rear seals are a Land-Rover _trademark_. They have the patent on 
these things...

 > They both agree that they're impeccable off-road, and have a certain 
> "mystique," but the little things added up.  They are now looking into 
> the Toyota Landcruiser (perhaps they should try the Disco?)

Disco uses the same rear seals...

> Am I to  assume that the Disco is much more reliable (?) since it is of 
> fairly new lineage?

I would, myself, assume the opposite. It is not more reliable until it is 
older and has A) had the bugs worked out B) proven itself in the long 
run.... not that it's off to a bad start... except for rust rumors.

> Help! I'd like to become a Landy owner but now I just don't know . . .

I think the best way is to find out more about them and make sure you are 
willing to be a Land Rover owner... not just "a guy that drives a Range 
Rover." It takes dedication, patience, willingness to 'Heath Robinson' 
things from time to time, and a bit of faith/commitment. It's a bit 
like parenthood I suppose (but I have no plans to buy a child anytime soon).

Cheers,
Charlie

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: general questions...
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 18:03:46 EDT

> 2.  Same LR has a Rochester carb on it (no I didn't install it) which even
> after a complete rebuild still has a huge lag just off of idle.  It seems to
> run well with the cold start knob pulled out just under half-way.  Will running
> the choke open like that reduce power?  Milage?  Engine wear?

And Dixon told you to chuck it.  Figures, he's got stock in the Weber
company...

I've got a Ra-ta-cha in Nigel, and have no problems, other than running a
tad on the rich side.  Ask Ben Smith about his lean running Weber, though....
he cooked the sucker.

I suspect your "huge lag" is due to some other problem you've not yet
found....air leak perhaps (between the carb and the manifold, or the manifold
and the block), way-off timing (like Dixon suggested), sticky advance, etc?

C'mon Dix, stop raggin' on Roachesters...they ain't THAT bad.

> 3.  Loading a canoe onto a safari roof.  Are there points on the roof that will
> support the weight of a relatively light (79 lbs.) canoe w/out a rack?  Read
> Yakima rack comments with great interest, and was inspired to sell mine. 
> Should I get another one to mount the canoe on the roof?

My Yakima rack (with the IA tower extensions) JUST (ie barely) fits onto
my *regular* hardtop.  Others have had it fit no problem, so YMMV. I'm not
so sure about a top with a heat shield on it, though.

rgds,
rd/nigel

ps where is the '66?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 15:32:33 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: S III timing

 My 109 has a series III engine that has a front pully timing mark that has two 
points.  My manual only covers IIA's and only shows a front pully timing mark 
with three points.  

So the question is what do the two points signify.  My guess is 3 degrees before
TDC and TDC.  Is that correct? or did they count the edge of the timing plate as
TDC like some other British cars did?

Thanks!  TeriAnn

------------------------------

From: "geoffrey.m.halaburt"
Date: 24 Apr 95 12:46:48 
Subject: Re: tradeoff questions

Remember that all this stuff is "addable" whenever you want -- you can always 
buy more later... You can only get if financed now, though <g>.  On my '94 D90, 
I feel I went a little overboard.  I got the AC, Softtop, brush bar, side 
steps, skid plate, custom Thule rack, and lamp guards.  

If I had to do it over, I'd skip the AC.  I moved from Denver to the SF Bay 
area, and could definately now pass on the AC -- it works great, but I don't 
ever need/use it.  Since you're nearby, I'd actually 'make you a deal' on my AC 
unit (however, '94 AC may not work in a '95) -- If you're interested, e-mail me 
at geoffrey.m.halaburt@ac.com.  I'll go one more summer with it, and then maybe 
remove it anyway to save weight and get more knee room.

The lamp guards are a must for avoiding problems with things like shopping 
carts in the grocery parking lot.  If you do SERIOUS off road, the winch, skid 
plate, and brush bars make sense.  I got the side steps so I can better lift my 
bicycles WAY up to the Thule roof rack.

If you EVER intend to go topless, get the softtop instead of the hard.  It's 
time consuming enough to get the soft on/off.   With the hard, you be apt to 
never bother.

On colors, I went with white, figuring it would show 'abuse' the least, and 
stay cooler in the summer.

-Geoff

------------------------------

Date: 24 Apr 95 19:27:11 EDT
From: "WILLIAM  L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: Misc

My family have returned to the UK after 2 weeks of credit card spending in NY,
during a visit to Bon Ton I observed a tee shirt , made in the USA by yaga, it
features a ser 3 s w on the front with the motif 4 wheel jive and a larger lr
ser 3 swb s w on the rear with the motif yaga rover 4 wheel jive, price $ 18. It
was not on sale so we settled for a buffalo bills shirt for $3.

Richard Wegner,     ---   is your gearbox ser 2 or 3, ser 2 do not have an oil
seal but utilise a scroll on the shaft to return the oil to the box. ser 3 have
a seal.
  A common problem is wear on the flywheel bush which allows the input shaft to
rotate eccentrically, other cause include loose fastenings, cracked castings,
particularly ser 3 cast iron clutch release bearing covers. worn bearings etc
etc.

Daryl    Steering dampers were not "standard on ser 1 2 or 3 except for the 109
1 tonne models
- 6 cyl engines as standard- and were available as 'optional " extras for other
models.
 They are essential for the permanent 4 wheel drive ser 4, RR, 90, 110 etc but
are not necessary for the part time models.
 To fix steering shimmy check wheel balance, track rod end condition, steering
idler condition and the pre load in the swivel housings, on both the early
spring type and the later Rialko bush type load can be increased by removing
shims from between the steering arms and the swivel housings.

 Regards   Bill  Leacock   Limey in exile.

------------------------------

From: Sekerere@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:30:20 -0400
Subject: Atlantic British

Hi all,

Comedy of errors, we found this company with Tom still there, and the Vermont
branch still intact. They had to let the 1-800 numbers go as they were not
cost effective. Their number is now (916)  778-3937. Talked to Tom today and
he was shocked that I could not get hold of them. So all is well that ends
well, and they are still very much in business. So folks continue to deal
with them as I have found them to be the most friendly and helpful folks
around. 

Cheers

Chris Whitehead

------------------------------

From: JCassidyiv@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:15:28 -0400
Subject: New Disco

I just got in from my first drive of my wife's new Disco which was delivered
by LR Metro West in MA today to us here in Maine.  My wife asked, how are we
going to drive it without temporary plates?  I implored her that we HAD to
take it for a spin(after all, it took four months to get here).  I took my
from plate off my pick-up truck and away we went; no registration, inspection
sticker, or insurance card(the insurance is activated).  As we came down over
a hill on our way to get some take out Chinese food, there was a cop parked
on the side of the road facing our way.   This was the same spot I got
stopped and ticketed for an out of date inspection sticker last fall.  My
wife and I both rubber necked to see if he was pulling out to stop us-he
didn't.  I told my wife, "He must have noticed the truck first, and then my
ear-to-ear smile."(or hers, for that matter).          
                   Cheers from a family with Disco Fever!
                                         John and Sharon Cassidy
P.S.  Thanks to Jim Pappas for all his help.  Jim, maybe I'll answer those
CSI questions in you're favor after all(Ha-Ha!).

------------------------------

From: JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 23:06:00 -0400
Subject: Deep water crossings

Greetings,

My question for the day is regarding water crossings.  During the most
recent trip to the wilds of East Central Ohio, it became necessary to
cross a flooded trail.  The large Beaver population surprises us every
spring with new and interesting water hazards.  In this case, we felt it
easer to attempt to cross the pond rather than retrace our steps.  After
making a successful crossing and returning to camp, the most recent issue
of "four Wheeler" was brought up for discussion.  The article on
water/wading depths listed the Defender 90's depth as 20 inches.  This
depth was given because of a computer located under the seat.  Is it
located under the seat?  While installing the winch, I didn't notice any
electronics.  If not, Where is the computer?

So as not to jeopardize my warranty, I will not elaborate on the actual
depth of the water.  Let me say that the doors seal quite well though,
and the tailgate does fair.

Jim Cirbus
"U-Boat Commander"
"U-730"
(W) (614)478-6252
(H) (614)965-9851

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:29:38 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: general questions...

Mike Slade <SLCN3@cc.usu.edu> writes:

>1.  My 66 '88 IIA has a steering damper on it that is leaking oil.  Is it
  wise to:
	A:  Leave it on
	B:  Replace it
	C:  Remove and not replace

  ----> D:  Refill it with grease

 Obviously D.  As everyone knows from replacing the swivel ball oil with
 grease, using one type of lubricant throughout the vehicle makes it
 infinetly easier on safaries.  You'll only need to carry only one can of
 grease instead of half-a-dozen different oils and fluids.

>I wouldn't know what it's like to drive the thing without it...

 Wrong.  You are probably already VERY used to driving the thing without
 it.  Everyday, in small amounts, your thing has changed from a dampered
 vehicle to an un-dampered vehicle.

>... and as I do
 actually get off road at least twice a week, would like to know possible
 advantages/disadvantages to all of the options.

 This very issue was heatedly debated just recently.  The consensus was
 that twice a week was just about right for most people, that is if you're
 American.  If English, twice a month is excessive; if German, twice a week
 if you enjoyed it or not; if Australian (or South African), there was no
 agreement since practically the entire country is off road; and if you're
 19 and under, twice a day seemed necessary in today's world.  Anyway, I
 suggest contacting the Major for digest copies, listing ALL the advantages
 and disadavantages.

>Watched 'Red Dawn' on TBS yesterday.
 Just wondering if I was hallucinating.

 Hallucinating.

>Any help would be greatly appreciated in regards to the more serious
questions.

 Hey, if you ask them, then they must be serious.  Glad to be of help!

 Michael Carradine    Carradine Studios                   Tel.510-254-3324
 Architect            Architecture Development Planning   Pgr.510-945-5000
 NCARB RIBA           PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA           cs@crl.com

 Unimog 4x4 WWW page at http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 21:55:36 PDT
From: johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu)
Subject: Re: Atlantic British of California

In the current issue of the Aluminium Workhorse (LROA) it is reported
that the 800 number for British Rovers has been disconnected but the
company is still around and in fact the owner, Bruce, has purchased DAP
and is moving that company to a new location in Vermont, to become a
Land Rover parts business.  Apparently the 800number was too expensive
especially since lots of people would call solely for advice without ordering
parts from Bruce.

You might try calling DAP (see the ads in Hemmings for the number).
Alternately the editor of the Aluminium Workhorse (UncleBrad@aol.com)
might have a current number for Bruce.

I have bought plenty of parts from Bruce and found him to be very honest
and prompt, as well as generous with advice and "how-to" instructions.
I have never dealt with Tom Gannen, Bruce's partner who ran British Rovers
in California.  But I would be very, very surprised if there is anything
untoward going on, and I am sure Bruce will set things right when you
reach him.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 21:56:21 PDT
From: johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu)
Subject: Rover For Sale Again - Cheaper

My 1962 Land Rover 109 3-door is for sale again, now for $10,000 obo.  It is 
limestone, petrol, overdrive, freewheel hubs, fixed windows in the 
roofsides, in excellent stock condition in all respects.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 22:08:31 PDT
From: johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu)
Subject: Re: Advice on a used Lady, please...

$3,000 sounds fair.  But be realistic about the amount of money to finish 
the truck.  I looked at buying a stripped Land Rover once and had trouble 
finding a local paint shop that was interested in painting it (apparently 
aluminium requires a different etching/priming/painting  process than the 
the usual) and the quotes I did finally get were around $5,000.  I'm sure 
this is not the best price you could find, but I would research that 
carefully before you buy.  Of course, if you plan to spray it yourself that 
would be another matter.  The rear cross-member might be okay, but since the 
fellow went to the trouble of buying a new one I'd suspect the old one is 
rusty and needs to be replaced.  I'd examine it closely.  Also, if the rear 
cross-member is rusty, you should carefully check the rest of the 
frame/steel parts for rust. Particularly the frame outriggers, the bulkhead 
(look around the bottom where the doors attach and the area around the 
windshield frame, as well as the toeplates), and the front frame horns where 
the front springs attach.  If you are not a welder, and are not planning a 
major restoration, I personally think serious rust in the frame indicates a 
Rover you should avoid.  The bulkhead particularly is difficult to repair.

A leaking rear oil seal is not uncommon.  How is the rest of the driveline?  
Transmission work is very expensive.  Have you checked the engine 
compression, the differentials, and the U-joints?  Propshafts are not too 
costly but differentials are.  Also check the swivel joints for play.  If 
worn, they are time-consuming but not costly to replace.

The April 1995 issue of LRO Magazine (available from British Pacific in 
Burbank, CA, as well as other Rover parts places) has a good guide to buying 
and inspecting a Series Rover.  Also, you should get a copy of the Rovers 
North, VT parts catalog and get an idea of how much it will cost to replace 
whatever seems doubtful on the truck.  Then add 50% to that, because these 
are 30 year old trucks and there is always more to fix.  Then add 100% more 
for mechanic's labor charges, unless you will definitely do it all yourself 
(but see below).

I always feel you are better off buying a vehicle that someone else has 
fixed up than buying a fixer upper.  I know this goes against the "do it 
yourself" ethos of the Land Rover crowd, but the fact is that the guy who 
buys a restoration project and spends thousands to fix it up almost never 
gets his money back, and the guy who buys that truck gets the best of the 
deal.  My view makes even more sense, in my opinion, when you will be 
counting on the truck for your sole transportation.  When something breaks, 
you don't necessarily have the time to mail-order parts, wait for a spare 
weekend, fix it yourself, take your time, etc.  You end up having to have 
your local mechanic do the repair which costs plenty.

You could buy a nice 109", all fixed up, for $8,000 - $12,000.   Maybe 
others would estimate that range a little differently.  If you start with a 
truck that needs painting and a lot of fixing for $3,000, I'd suspect your 
final cost by the time everything is put right will not be cheaper that what 
you could buy a fixed up truck for.  It might be a lot more, depending on 
luck and how much work you do yourself.

In the interest of full disclosure, I admit I have a 109" I am trying to 
sell myself.  But I'd give you the same advice even if I wasn't trying to 
sell the truck.   The guy before me paid $16,000 for this truck after 
restoration (he overpaid) and ultimately had well over $20,000 in it by the 
time he sold it to me.  He's a good example of how the guy who restores the 
incomplete truck suffers compared to the guy to whom he sells the truck.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:46:46 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Deep water crossings

 Jim Cirbus <james_cirbus@hpatc2.desk.hp.com> writes:

>My question for the day is regarding water crossings.

 Probably best answered by Granville Poole and the Mendo-Recce crowd. 

>water/wading depths listed the Defender 90's depth as 20 inches.  This
 depth was given because of a computer located under the seat.  Is it
 located under the seat?  If not, Where is the computer?

 The computer on my Series III was located about 60 inches above ground
 level, right between my ears!  It prevented the vehicle from wandering
 too deep into water hazards and other dangerous situations.  But if you
 keep yours under the seat...

-Michael Carradine
 cs@crl.com

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:55:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: OVLR goings-on

 
> On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Roger Sinasohn wrote:
> > Okay all you folks from up north...  A couple questions...  I'll be in 

.........

>         Ben is supposed to be driving from China Lake in his trusty Land
>         Rover, though I expect the trip to take a little longer than in
>         something more modern.

I think he want's to ride with someone on the off-road... heh, heh, heh...
We can fit him in... somewhere... 

Uncle Roger... bring a snorkle! Dixon mentioned something about a beaver
dam.. I just love beaver dams... heh, heh, heh....

>         Quatorze?  Beaver tails are available in the Market in the summer.
>         :-)

Quatorze?? Like July 14th in France? 

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:31:27 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Temperature's rising

Alexander P. Grice <rover@pinn.net> writes:

>Anyway, I've always gotten very prompt service from Bruce, and his prices 
 are great.  His new number is 802-885-6660 or FAX him at 800-885-6662. Bruce 
 is also a warehouse/distributor for Lucas/Girling, Warn Winch, Hi-Lift jacks 
 and the US distributor for Bearmach.  For a while, he had an E-mail address, 
 (at Prodigy) but I don't know if he is still/back on-line.
 Now if he was a true entrepreneur, he'd have an interactive, mutli-media 
 order form on-line....

 D.A.P. Enterprises' prices and service is great, and an 800 number for
 Fax's is very generous.  He does think (and will not hesitate to tell
 you!) that the Internet Land Rover list is the "epitome of old
 washerwomen gossip driven to new heights" by the medium.  I see his
 point and mostly agree with him, although I will wait to see this
 technology proceed to fruition before evaluating its contribution to
 Rovering.

-Michael Carradine
 cs@crl.com

 "Jeep may be famous, Land Rover is legendary, UNIMOGs are invincible"

------------------------------

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