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Subject: Test, and foot notes 
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 06:22:50 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

Well, in response to my recent message regarding mailer stuff, I did get a
couple replies, one of which has prompted me to put a 'wrapper' on the 
real-time list mail. 

Previously, 'real-time' mail would be simply forwarded to the receipients

to unconstrained size, but we did pick up about 20 folks on the real-time
side).

The function of the wrapper is to do the following:

	(1)	add the Errors-To: field and some other common list headers 
		hopefully list submitters won't be bothered 'bounced' from
		real-time receipients

	(2)	Removes headers from submitter to the list
		This should result in less header bytes at your end.

And, well, since I had 'em lying around, the digester scripts are now applied
to real-time mail  -- long winded included sections, preceeded by standard
mailer characters, will be truncated, with a note added to let you know.
Also, errant control characters will be removed, etc. for your convience.

Cheers,
 -Bill

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: D-90 starting to fall apart.
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 9:09:58 GMT

> It seems that after 18K miles things are begining to fall off the D-90
> first I have lost three gas caps.....
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> Minor  nits on a great truck.
> Now for the tough issue, is it P.C for my wife to ride in the D-90?
> Russ
Only if she doesnt enjoy it.
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 14:16:15 -0600 (CST)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: MIG welding

Thanks for the info on the rod.  I think I will try this stuff on my 
aluminum canoe.  I also saw it advertised at a home handyman show and I 
think the only thing the fellow tod me was that it required using some 
kind of special prep brush with stainless bristles, however maybe he was 
just selling brushes!  I will try the sandpaper or wire wheel route.  
Thanks Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 14:36:45 -0600 (CST)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: lockers

I don't know if they are available in the U.S. but in Canada you can get 
something called a "jiffy sleeve".  It goes on the bull nose pulley to 
give a new surface before you put it back on.  This will make you new 
seal work like a factory seal is meant to.  I had mine put on by an 
automotive machine shop because if you don't get it exactly straight you 
will distroy it as you push it on.  Once on it looks like stainless steel 
the surface is so nice.  I think I paid about $14.00 to have it done.  It 
really makes a new piece out of the old part for very little cost.  By 
the way you don't really have to take the timing chain cover off to 
replace the seal.  If my memory serves me correctly, there are about 8 
small screws on the front of the seal retainer.  Remove them and use a 
seal puller or just bend it to remove it and tap a new one in using a 
large socket or a piece of pipe to keep the seal straight as you drive it 
home.  The secret of doing a seal that doesn't leak, is to put grease on 
the back of the seal in the groove before you put the drive piece in.  
This prevents tearing the new rubber before it gets seated and as the 
seal heats, it releases a bit of lubricant. Dave VE4PN
 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 09:53:48 MET
From: marcenaro@ccm.ansaldo.it (Marcenaro Bartolomeo)
Subject: hello world

Hello everybody,
My name is Bart from Genova, Italy
I own a Defender 90 Tdi and a 3 doors Range Rover turbodiesel (it seems that 
diesel is much popular here than in the States, but with Gas at almost 1.5 
$/litre and diesel at 0.9 $/litre ....)

I joined this list just a few days ago and I have spent some time reading the 
messages exchanged over this list.

I have spent long periods of my life in the USA and I know a bit of your car and
truck market and I am really surprised to find people available to spend almost 
40k $ for a Discovery or a Defender when with the same money you could buy 4 or 
5 Wranglers. Not that the two vehicles are the same but...

The situation is quite different here where, for instance, the Defender 90 and 
the Jeep wranglear are almost equally priced (!)

It looks strange for me to listen your Q&A about these vehicles, comparing a 
Series II Land Rover (probably aged more than 20 years) with nowadays standards,
and complaining about it. How many 20 or 30 years old american trucks would be 
better than the Series II Land.
(By the way, Series is not the name of a model of Land Rover, as it seems most 
of you thinks. A Series II Land Rover means that vehicle belongs to the second 
series of land rovers, namely it is called an 88 inches land rover.)

I drive my land in the Sahara desert twice a year, where I crossed Morocco, 
Tunisia, Algeria and Lybia (if anybody is interested in these expeditions, 
please e-mail me). We crossed "ergs" with sand dunes as high as 200 metres, in 
August with 60 degrees C (140 F!) outside temperature without any major problem 
for the 7000+ miles covered during each trip. 
(Actually it also was inside temperature, as the A/C unit is the worst thing to 
think of in desert climates. In fact it overheats the engine and the A/C 
radiator partially "shadows"the main car radiator, further decreasing the air 
cooling effect)

Even japanese trucks performed well down there (especially toyota land 
cruisers). Unfortunately I cannot say the same about american trucks. We had a 
friend with a Cherokee last year and, after having literally destroyed the 
following:

Shock lins (front AND rear)
Battery support (with consequent damage to the electricals)
Distributor
A/C unit

he had to abandon the car in the desert because it was no longer driving.

For those of you (C.R Kirkwood ) worried by brake maintenance costs, please note
that I have driven 75000 km (47000 miles) on my defender and I just recently 
changed the brake pads for about 70$.

It might be that LR vehicles need more maintenance than other trucks (even 
though I am not quite sure) but most of it is just lovely care that everybody 
could perform, as you will find reading the Workshop manuals (originals from LR 
available at very reasonable prices from UK dealers by mail)

Who says Defenders (or Discos) cannot be use all the time?

Besides driving it to Africa, I also use my Defender for everyday use and I am 
really happy about it. It has (the turbodiesel version) a top speed well above 
speed limits (145 km/h), good acceleration, excellent braking etc.
OK, it is a little bit noisy but is not that bad.

I hope this collection of "first impressions" is not too confused and confusing 
and I hope to hear from you soon.

Bart

marcen@ari.ansaldo.it

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Bush winches
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:42:40 UNDEFINED

/The other gadget I have heard about but never seen are winch hubs; the
/principle being that drums attached to the wheelnuts wind in two ropes
/as the front wheels turn, thus hauling you out.

I am told that you can do this with two old brake drums reversed adn bolted 
on. Any views?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Bush winches
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 11:27:14 GMT

> /The other gadget I have heard about but never seen are winch hubs; the
> /principle being that drums attached to the wheelnuts wind in two ropes
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
>         Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
> +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Are the wheel studs long enough,though?
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Carl Byrne <SPECBB@CARDIFF.AC.UK>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 12:14:43 GMT
Subject: Two lists - keep as one.

I advocate keeping this great list as one! I have a 1949 Series I and 
a 1995 Discovery and so my interest are as wide as the current net. 
There appears to be a lot of other owners who own different types of 
LandRovers and therefore also have a wide interest.

One suggestion: Why not introduce a simple code system which is 
placed at the start of every message (by the sender) which indicates 
the type of vehicle it refers to. The reader can simply 'search' 
for the code he is interested in. For example:

RR - Range Rover
DI - Discovery
SI
SII
SIII
D90
D110  etc.etc

The reader can transfer the e-mail to a text editor and search for 
'DI' if he is only interested in Discovery articles.

Any thoughts?

Carl (UK)

Dr. Carl Byrne
University of Wales College of Cardiff,
Wales.
UK.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 08:40:18 -0500
From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens)
Subject: Do not split list

I see no reason to split up the list. Lets just keep on the subject. I was
amazed to see the amount of space wasted on stupid stuff in the last few
days.

Chris Stevens                           1969 SIIA 88" SW
BCG Corporate Communications
Towson, Maryland, USA
(410) 583-1722
(410) 583-1935 (FAX)
chrisste@Clark.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 08:13:39 EST
From: "Lapa, Hank" <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com>
Subject: Gaiters

     I've had a set of gaiters on the shelf for a few years.  The reason 
     they're not on the vehicle is because I was told after buying them 
     that they don't last long enough to justify the effort and to just 
     clean off the swivel balls when needed.  To those who have put them on 
     - how are they holding up, how long have they been on?  And most of 
     all, do they protect the user from "sticks and stones?"
     
     Wouldn't using some sort of silicone treatment be better than vaseline 
     on new installations?  BTW, I learned from some (static) aircraft 
     restoration experts a while back that ArmorAll was not a good 
     preservative in the long run, something in its chemistry.  But then, 
     who among us is shooting for 400 years between major work on our 
     Rovers?
     
     Hank 

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Accents and driving proclivities
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 08:15:00 EST

John Benham wrote>
>One of these days, the British are
>going to understand that `they ' have the accent and `they' drive on
>the wrong side of the road, and `their' seat belts are reversed!

IMEO They are from England and speaking English, so who has the accent ?
Driving on the right allows left side (The analylical {and Politically 
Correct} right brain controlled side) do the gear changing,  It also helps 
prevent tornadoes( ? ) in the northern hemisphere. Who has more? Kansas or 
Hampshire?  It is therefore the correct side.  For reversed seat belts see 
North American GM with passive belts, YUK. BTW what is a smoked englishman 
born and bred in British West Newcastle? An West African Geordie? or WOG, 
oops I mean WAG
and L.UCAS = Logically Un Correct And Scum

Trevor Easton teaston@dqc2.dofasco.ca 1962 SIIA SWB SSEXPPUCE(Sexist Scum Ex 
Patriot.Politically UnCorrect Englishman)

------------------------------

From: Beckerd@aol.com
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 08:59:45 -0500
Subject: unsubscribe lro-digest

unsubscribe lro-digest
I have no time for such small minded bigotry.

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Two lists - keep as one. (fwd)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 14:02:45 GMT

Forwarded message:
> From LRO-Owner@uk.stratus.com Thu Mar 16 12:26 GMT 1995
> Message-Id: <199503161109.LAA03307@chunnel.uk.stratus.com>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 45 lines)]
> Wales.
> UK.
FWIW,I'm with Carl here.Not necessarily over the "sort" methods but
certainly keeping one list.Otherwise we have subdivisions of military
(various),RR,Disco,etc plus one poor bloke in Oz with a stage one V8
who wont know whether he's coming or going.
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Gaiters
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 14:11:46 GMT

Bloke I know who rebuilt his front axle,with gaiters,was
told by the people he bought the bits from to fill them
with grease once they were on.He did,but then he went and
*sold* the Rover.So I dont know what success attended the
project.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 08:53:27 EST
From: "Lapa, Hank" <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Forward Control

     Isn't it some sort of crime against history for the F/C prototypes to 
     be rotting away in the woods?  Is there anyone with the wherewithall 
     to retrieve them to a safe location and perhaps investigate 
     sponsorship of restoration/preservation.  What a collector's item!
     
     Hank
     Engineer, Patriot, History-lover
     

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Forward Control
Author:  Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca> at Zeus
Date:    3/16/95 8:42 AM

>From lro-owner@uk.stratus.com
X-Envelope-From: lro-owner@uk.stratus.com
    id QQyhez20319; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 14:26:59 -0500
transfer.stratus.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id OAA11114; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 
14:16:22 -0500
chunnel.uk.stratus.com (8.6.7/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA02207 for <lro@team.net>; 
Wed, 15 Mar 1995 18:02:50 GMT
(8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA10601 for <lro@team.net>; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 
14:08:34 -0500
    id AA12164; Wed, 15 Mar 95 14:04:44 EST
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 14:04:43 -0500 (EST) 
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca> 
Subject: Re: Forward Control
Cc: lro@team.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
     
On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, RUPERT.OJ.HINE wrote:
     
> Well, as a proud owner of one of the beasts... They are about 7'6" 
> tall and 6'0.5" wide and have a wheelbase of...  101" . Originally 
> all (except some of the prototypes I think) were powered by the V8 
     
 Both prototypes were powered buy the Rover V8.  (They are about 
 twenty miles for here rotting away in the woods)
     

------------------------------

From: "David McKain" <MCKAIN@faculty.coe.wvu.edu>
Date:          Thu, 16 Mar 1995 09:26:12 EDT
Subject:       Splitting List

Andrew Baker writes;

>Hey Everybody,
>	I was just beginning to peruse my daily installment of the list, when it dawned on me that perhaps I wasn't the only owner of a series rover that just ignores the stuff about the Rangies and Discos.  Being the lazy bastard I am, I thought I might suggest
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>	Sooo, let me know if this is a decent/feasible prospect or if I'm just a raving freak after all, (the latter being probable in spite of any merits the idea may have).  Later.
>-Andrew Balser

I agree somewhat with the idea of splitting the list but this would 
probably increase the burden of maintaining the list for the 
administrators. I could be wrong. Any information

David McKain
1966 SIIa Petrol
mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu
(304) 599-0120
Morgantown, WV
USA                     

------------------------------

From: "RUPERT.OJ.HINE" <9155557@arran.sms.ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Thu, 16 Mar 1995 14:31:03 +0000
Subject:       Re: Re[2]: Forward Control

>      Isn't it some sort of crime against history for the F/C prototypes to 
>      be rotting away in the woods?  Is there anyone with the wherewithall 
>      to retrieve them to a safe location and perhaps investigate 
>      sponsorship of restoration/preservation.  What a collector's item!

Yes, but are there some more of the prototypes/test models about 
somewhere? Out of interest (I couldn't afford to do anything anyway - 
one is enough) where abouts are the woods that these two are in and 
does anyone know how they got there?

Rupert
LR101FC;GS
Green/Black

------------------------------

Date: 16 Mar 95 09:38:54 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Tires

> wondering if I could run 235/85R16.  This would give me a little more height
> right?  Plus there are some BF Goodrich Mud Terrains I saw and really liked
> on a Defender 90.

On what vehicle?? For Defenders, BFG Mud Terrain 235/85 are a, or perhaps the
top choice, I've never met anyone who wasn't thrilled about their off-road
capabilities. And for the massive tread they've got they're remarkably quiet
and soft-riding on tarmac. Like Daryl pointed out, you *might* have to
limit the steering lock stop a *little* bit as they tend to brush against
the radius arms on full lock (or against the leaf springs in case of a Series).
225/75 BFG's are ok for Range Rovers and Defenders, however if you have a
habit of cruising at high speeds the 'All Terrain' would be better (safer)
than the 'Mud Terrain' on these vehicles.

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: 16 Mar 95 09:39:25 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Gaiters

> from my parts catalogue (Defender 110 1987 -> fiche 2 K10 part RTC 3826)

That part number is still valid. BTW did your dealer tell you the price??
In England they retail at around 45.- British kilos... At that price, I'd
consider making them myself (take a set home, copy and take the measurements,
then bring it back to the dealer and tell him that you've changed your mind).
Basically they're just slabs of suede leather and a pair of aluminum
retaining rings with openings for the draining plugs.

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: 16 Mar 95 09:38:24 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: New list for pigs.....

oink...

> I always assumed that Land Rover ownership indicated a degree of
> sophistication; I guess I was wrong.

Not neccessarily... Some of the most sophisticated personalities in the
history of arts and science where reportedly dreaded by there contemporaries
for occasionally indulging in extreme vulgarity, e.g. Shakespeare, Mozart,
Goethe; as for Einstein... no, I won't even mention it...   it's obscene.
Charles Bukowski, on the other hand...   oh well, off to white_trash@pig.com
( or was that pig.edu? )

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 09:44:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Forward Control

On Thu, 16 Mar 1995, Craig Murray wrote:

>         The IIB had a 110" wheel base, the IIA had a 109" wheel base.

	Do you think someone who desn't even know what a FC looks like
	will be able to notice these differences?  Might as well use the
	IIB, different number to make it stand out from the IIA.

	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:14:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Forward Control

On Thu, 16 Mar 1995, Lapa, Hank wrote:

>      Isn't it some sort of crime against history for the F/C prototypes to 
>      be rotting away in the woods?  Is there anyone with the wherewithall 
>      to retrieve them to a safe location and perhaps investigate 
>      sponsorship of restoration/preservation.  What a collector's item!

	The chap who owns them has absolutely no intention of letting them
	go.  When you consider that tha large LR community about here has
	played with these vehicle off-road  in the past, has expressed
	great interest in them, & obviously tried to buy them many times,
	the fact that they are rusting in peace should come as no surprise.
	At least we know where they are...  They are different from the 
	generic 101, and in fact different from each other.  They were
	originally supplied to the Canadian military for testing as a gun
	tractor.  It competed against the Volvo 4x4FC, the Volvo 6x6FC (The
	6160 I believe & all four of those may have been prototypes too...)
	and a pair of Dodge Ramchargers(?).  Politics reared its ugly head 
	& Dodge won the contract over LR & Volvo...

	Rgds,

	PS.  Don't worry too much over something that is completely 
	     uncontrollable despite how dumb it might seem.  A lot of
	     OVLR people want these vehicles, I'd love to lay my hands
	     on one of them.  If there is a chance they can get restored,
	     they will, no doubt about that.  The owner has expressed
	     some interest in putting one back together again for off-
	     roading.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:18:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Forward Control

On Thu, 16 Mar 1995, RUPERT.OJ.HINE wrote:

> Yes, but are there some more of the prototypes/test models about 
> somewhere? Out of interest (I couldn't afford to do anything anyway - 
> one is enough) where abouts are the woods that these two are in and 
> does anyone know how they got there?

-	Sent to Canadian Military for testing for potential contract
	along with four Volvo FC vehicles & two Dodge products.
-	Dodge won contract.
-	All six vehicles sent to Crown Assets Disposal (Gov't agency
	which disposes of all Crown assets in Canada) and sold to 
	public.  All vehicles are still near Ottawa to our knowledge.
	(One Volvo was a club member's last year until he sold it.  
	Very impressive off-road!)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 10:53:11 EST
From: "Lapa, Hank" <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com>
Subject: Tire No-No's

     When I originally rescued my Ser II from aluminum oblivion, it had 5 
     rotten tires.  7.5x16s were put on all five original steel rims, 
     without tubes, for the 1000-mile trip home.  I've heard that THIS is a 
     no-no, i.e., going tubeless on the old-style rims.  One reason is the 
     potential to lose air past rusted/pitted rivet joints.  Are there 
     other reasons?  I had tubes put in later, but they seemed to slide 
     around, kinking the stem to a scary angle and nearly tearing it off.  
     Beside, once the old rims had been sandblasted and refinished, the 
     surface against which the tubes would lay wasn't all that smooth.  So 
     I'm back to being tubeless.  Will I die a horrible beltway death?
     
     Hank

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 11:08:37 EST
From: "Lapa, Hank" <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com>
Subject: One List or Several

     It seems to me to be a matter of using the Subject Line in concert 
     with the Delete Key  versus  possibly missing out on items of interest 
     to all Rovers by not being subscribed to multiple lists.  Unless the 
     items of special interest to my specific Rover variant become a much 
     smaller percentage of the total than they now are, I'm happy to keep 
     one all-inclusive list.  If it does split, I'm still interested in 
     what goes on in Non-Series Land and would likely subscribe if just to 
     lurk.  Ah yes, one big happy Land-Rover family.  The Brady bunch we 
     are not.
     
     Hank "No Billy-Beer-Here" Lapa

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:46:41 -0600 (CST)
From: "Michael L. Williams" <mlwillia@ag.auburn.edu>
Subject: Trade for Land Rover

Although I have been enjoying the list for several months now, this is my 
first listing on the net. My name is Mike Williams and I am an 
Entomology  professor at Auburn University in Auburn, Alabama USA. I 
drive a 1973 SER III 88 Which I have owned since 1976 and love it!

I have a friend who is interested in obtaining a series Rover and has the 
following to offer as trade:

	1971 Cadillac El Dorado Convertible - complete above frame 
restoration , stripped to metal and repainted "Firethorn Red" , new 
Buckskin interior, top, tires, air conditioner and brakes. (Market value 
$12K).

He is also interested in buying one outright. Interested parties please 
reply to mlwillia@ag.auburn.edu, and include phone number.

Also, anyone have a used light assembly to replace the one that used to be 
above my license plate on my series III ? Send address and cost. 

Thanks,  Mike

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 11:44:50 +0000 (GMT)
From: MENDISA <MENDISA@cpits1.am.doe.ca>
Subject: Introduction

This seems an opportune moment to jump in and make an introduction (don't
worry, I have a virtual Nomex suit on). Although not currently a LR owner, I
had a 73 88 III for about 3 years as a daily driver. Ever driven a Series Rover
in
 - 35 C weather?  I was also a member of Ottawa Valley LRs. A frame with
terminal rot, no time or space to fix it, coupled with a recent ability to
increase my debt load threw me behind the wheel of a new 4-Runner. Although
competent in its own way, it's nothing like a Land Rover. The 4-Runner is now
for sale and I am on the lookout for a completely irrational replacement, a 109
IIa perhaps!

A word on the flame-fest. Yes, this is a list for Land Rovers (which,
naturally, includes Discos and RRs - it's the same spirit which compells *all*
Land Rover owners/users to subscribe to this list). However, postings to this
list which may be construed as offensive by certain people should, rightly, be
responded to by the offended. If fantasies cannot be kept private they should
at least be kept off this list. I believe Hefner and Guccione have set up shop
on the Info Highway.

Please, back to regular programming. I need this daily digest to distract me
from my alienated labour.     

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 17:00:15 +0001 (GMT)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Two lists - keep as one.

> I advocate keeping this great list as one! I have a 1949 Series I and 

> One suggestion: Why not introduce a simple code system which is 
> placed at the start of every message (by the sender) which indicates 

> RR - Range Rover
> DI - Discovery
> SI

> D110  etc.etc

> Dr. Carl Byrne

I like Carl's idea. It would be voluntary, but quite useful. Perhaps a 
GEN prefix for non-specific general interest? (and XXX for offensive 
material... POL for political content... ;-) )

Having said that, I more or less do that already with the 'subject' 
heading... that's what it's there for.

Charlie

------------------------------

Subject: Re: splitting the list
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 12:26:13 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

Jory included my previous message about splitting  the list,

which got chopped 'cause it was forwarded.

I want you all to see it because I'd say it again today, so I will:

-------- Begin Forwarded message:

William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> had this to say about splitting
up the list (series-def/rangie/disco):

Well, if you did that then it would more or less be an attitude thing.

If you look at from the point of view of the marque, what you ought to be
doing with your rover, or even mechanically [most of the drivetrain bits
are identical, or nearly so, between the above choices], then it doesn't
make a whole lot of sense to split it up.

But *you* should feel free to create the 101FC-owners, or the SeriesI-owners,
    ^^^^^
the net-slugs or the rangy-registry list.

All I ask is that *you* just go off and *do it* without cluttering up this
list with more noise.

------- End Forwarded Message

And speaking about *noise*:

	I think by now everyone who has had something to say, pro, con or 
	otherwise regarding "Offroad Tuition" or assorted other non-Rover
	issues, has said it, or somebody else as said something similar
	enough to how they feel.

	I'd say a weeks worth of this >>flaming<< has been enough,
		so take it off the front burner, and off the list, eh !

	In general it is a lot of work to monitor what gets posted and 
	moderate it - I'm not up for doing that.  The other, far simpler
	(and less fair) alternative is to turn off the feed to people who
	are whinging about what their receiving (actually, I considered
	punting Mr. Questions for a breif period, but then it got fun).

	In any event, controling _who_ is on the list is NOT something
	I want to do, so lets have a LOT LESS whinging *on* the list...
----------

Now, I've got to be off to put in my new *flame traps*, genuine parts (#603330),
13.60 GBP for the pair of 'em, too bad they couldn't be plumbed into the
pipes the list goes through :-)

I reckon the old ones would probably be toxic waste in the PC part of the
world, but I'll just bung 'em in the waste bin and let the local council
dispose of 'em, whatever they do.

    Cheers,
	--bill	caloccia@Team.Net	caloccia@Stratus.Com

      1  3     dl OD  L           "Land Rover's first, becuase
      |--|--+  o  |   |            Land Rovers last."
      2  4  R     N   H           '72 Range Rover

	For some of my rover photos check out:
		http://www.missouri.edu/RoverWeb/wc0295/pict0295.html

------------------------------

From: llevitt@idcresearch.com
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 12:35:06 EST
Subject: CUT THE CRAP AND GROW UP

Okay folks, can we just stop this inane bullshit?

I did not subscribe to this list to hear boys treat women like objects or have 
"PC" explained to me. Those of you that believe that words don't hurt are just 
plain wrong. They do. And if you believe otherwise you're not listening to the 
people that are telling you that these words *did* hurt them.

I have a wife and daughter. And if I caught anyone talking about either of them 
the way our little friend referred to the women in his offroad class, I'd pound 
the shit out of him. Didn't anyone teach this fellow about respecting all 
people?

I also have a son. And if I ever heard him referring to other people in such a 
manner, he and I would have a little talk about respecting people. And since 
he's only 4 I do expect that he will pick up such trash and try it on for size. 
I only hope that I am there to teach him that it isn't right. And he will 
understand, because all along I have taught him that respect for other people 
*is* important.

People are people. Theu are not to be judged by their body parts or country of 
origin or accent or nationality. To joke about such things simply reinforces the
subtle biases that most of us have.

Oh, and Mike Rooth, I used to really enjoy reading your posts. I don't anymore. 
This is not a national issue. It's not a matter of one Brit wising off about 
other Brits. It's a matter of men not respecting women, and if you believe any 
differently, *you're* less of a man than I thought.

Mike Fredette, you just don't get it, do you?

So either grow up or shut up, all of you.

It just ain't funny. And the more you blab and joke about it, the less funny it 
gets.

Later,

Lee Levitt
llevitt@idcresearch.com

PS. If you didn't figure it out, I am a *man* telling you *boys* that what 
you're doing is *wrong*. It is hurtful, stupid and juvenile. So just stop it.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 09:47:32 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: D-90 starting to fall apart.

In message <199503160157.RAA01879@lint.cisco.com> Russell Burns writes:
> It seems that after 18K miles things are begining to fall off the D-90
> first I have lost three gas caps.....

Hmm haven't lost one in all the years I've owned my Land  Rover.  The cap is 
chained to the filler on a series LR.  A nice Land Rover touch.  Any chance the 
caps are not being put on correctly or are they being left at gas stations?

> second, the passenger seat has broke a spot weld in one of the mount points

A stop at a welding shop should get that fixed in about 15 minutes.

 .
> third, after making a trip to the car wash, I proceeded to wash off about
> 1/4 of the paint on the rear cross-member

Careful about mentioning that.  There are those on this list that look at 
washing Land Rovers as being the most policticaly incorrect thing a person can 
possibly do.

Stop at a good hardware shop, pick up a can of black paint and some metal etch 
(phosphoric acid).  clean up the unpainted area. paint the etch on it per the 
directions, and paint per directions.

> fourth, the hood latch quit working

Adjust or replace as necessary

> fifth, the drive train clanks

Check 'U' joints quickly & replace as necessary.  It would be embaressing to see
a Land Rover beside the road with an end of a drive shaft sitting on the ground.
If you do not feel qualified to track down the clank, take it to a mechanic who 
can.

> Minor  nits on a great truck.
> 1/4 of the paint on the rear cross-member

Welcome to the normal issues in living with a 4WD car.  They get treated rougher
than street cars & have almost twice the drive train parts to wear out & break.

> Now for the tough issue, is it P.C for my wife to ride in the D-90?
> Russ
none

What do you mean is it PC for your wife to ride in a D90?  probably not.  Get 
her a series II Land Rover.  Now thats a real woman's rig.  None of those fancy 
do-dads that men go crazy for, none of that high horsepower, high speed stuff 
that men crave.  Just good solid sensible motoring fun.  But she just might want
to keep it clean inside & out and do things like have dents removed, the outside
painted, and put new vynal in the inside.  That does tend to incise real he-men.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 09:55:51 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: New list for pigs..... 

In message <950315223934_50923159@aol.com>  writes:
> Whut is Berkely...is zat a scool or sumthing?
> Just kidding folks....no flames please.    Rick Crider

No its a city on the East side of the San Franciso Bay.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Thu, 16 Mar 1995 12:14:10 GMT -0600
Subject:       Oil seals, aluminum welding & lightweights

Robert Kerner wrote asking about timing cover oil seal. One thing to 
watch for is whether or not the seal has worn a grove in the shaft. 
This would apply to all seals I suppose. If it has, I've had good 
results from using a little thing called a Speedy Seal available at 
all fine bearing stores. It's actually a collar that you drive on to 
a worn shaft. It's very thin SS and usually you can continue to use the
OEM spec seals. (I'm can't recall if it will work on the crank 
because of the keyway) 
There is also a double lip seal avail that will fit 
the timing cover. I've mislaid my parts cross ref file during my last 
move so I don't have the PN. I'm trying to find it.

Aluminum welding:
I saw a posting  about some kind of newfangled al rod. If you don't 
cause the base metal to melt, it's not welding. Or at least it wasn't 
when I did it for a living. I'm not saying that the stuff won't do 
the job. But I've also seen a lot of miracle cures out there on the 
market.  Be careful reading spec sheets, they often highlight data 
that isn't the one (or several) that's critical in your application.

Lightweight buying hints;  someone wanted some,
I've been driving one since '85 or '86. The main things I've noticed 
are: appear to have a slightly lower center of gravity, the parts 
that aren't civilian issue are more expensive like body parts, 
prone to rust at the joint between the dash cowl panel and the top 
of the bulkhead. Mine isn't totaly original, but I LOVE IT!
If you want to direct specific questions to me feel free.
I can't remember who it was so if your send me your address, I reply 
directly if I think of anything else.  Oh, mine came with two part 
wheels which are great if you get flats out in the boonies.

Hear hear, to sticking to L/R issues. Although, I too, have sinned.

I loved the VT mud report. God do I miss it. I lived outside of 
Brattleboro and it wasn't unusual to have our road closed. Sometimes 
I had so much mud caked to my wheels the out of balance effect would 
almost shake me bonkers. Spent six dollars at the care wash just 
trying to get the mud off the wheels. I pulled out one guy on our 
road and I had to dig down a foot to get to his bumper. We 
had a very steep hill on the road, most people couldn't get up it in 
the snow, even with snow tires. I pulled out one family that got 
stuck in the middle of the road  going down the hill. Ah, 
the good old days. Have fun :-)

Tom Rowe
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Center for Dairy Research
1605 Linden Dr., Madison, WI 53706
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578
Home:608-243-8660
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Gaiters 
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:13:38 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Hank Lapa wrote:

>      I've had a set of gaiters on the shelf for a few years.  The reason 
>      they're not on the vehicle is because I was told after buying them 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>      - how are they holding up, how long have they been on?  And most of 
>      all, do they protect the user from "sticks and stones?"

	I've had mine on for 3 or 4 years.  The only wear that I have on the
gaitors is that the steering stop bolt and the stop on the swivel housing
punched a small hole in each gaitor.  The swivel balls inside do not appear
to show any wear at all.  So I think they are helping.  (I replaced one ball
when I installed the gaiters because it was quite badly corroded)   Before
installing the gaiters I impregated the leather with SnowSeal.

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications International Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com
Subject: Defender 90 Insurance
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 10:21:09 PST

I'm interested to hear from U.S. Defender 90 owners about the
cost of insurance for this vehicle. You can either  email me or 
post to the list if you don't mind sharing this info.

Thanks.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Peng                                     
Intel Corporation
Design Technology, Physical CAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:36:45 -0800
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: RE: LockRight Lockers

Rob, 

Thanks for the reply.  Sorry about calling you bob; I'd forgotten.  

>They are automatic lockers.  They also say they can be installed by most 
>anyone in under two hours.  I read all of this in Petersons 4 wheel Drive. 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>to replace my rear diff. gasket (more leaks).  So seeing as I will have it 
>apart it would be nice and easy to do the installation.

Bummer that they are auto-lockers; I was hoping that they were a low-cost 
alternative to ARBs but they are not.  I strongly disagree that automatic 
work just as well.  I've had experience with limited slips in both rear and 
front and even with a permanently locked diff in the front.  I am very sure 
that a limited slip in the rear will make the rear "walk" downhill when you 
are crossing sidehills.  And this includes uphill climbs where the trail 
only slightly slopes to the side.  

I once had a 1966 Scout (ugh!) that had limited-slip (PowerLock) front and 
rear.  I had SATs on it and boy could it go through mud holes.  But that is 
about the only thing it was good for.  There were a number of trails on our 
ranch in Humboldt County that I felt I should be able to climb but simply 
could not and not for lack of trying!  When I got my first Land-Rover, a 
thrashed 1960 Series II with a tired engine, almost non-driving front axle 
(splines on outer end of right stub shaft almost stripped and free-wheeling 
hub drive piece cracked but I didn't know it yet), and really lousy tires 
(7.50x16 bias with "cross-rib" recap, essentially a highway truck tire), I 
went and tried some of those unconquered trails.  The Land-Rover, with open 
diffs, did them easily.

My next Land-Rover was a 1970 Series IIA with the aforementioned locked diff 
in the front (spider gears welded to the diff gears).  THAT could climb!!!  
But boy, was it tiring to drive.  I kept that diff when I sold the LR and 
have almost put it into another LR a couple of times.  But what I'd really 
like are driver-controlled lockers, like ARB or MacNamara.  Yes, they are 
very expensive, especially by the time you add all the special beefing up of 
the stock components that I believe is necessary to the stock Rover axles 
(four-pinion carrier and 24-spline axles).  But really worth it, I feel.  
All that I said about limited slips above probably goes double for automatic 
100% lockers (such as Detroit Locker).  The only sort of automatic 
slip-limiters that I expect might work OK are the electronic traction 
control such as the RRs have now, Torsen diffs (worm gear/worm wheel 
arrangement), and viscous couplings (yes, they have been put in cross-axle 
diffs).

My Dakota 4x4 pickup has limited slip in the rear and I'm not sure that I'm 
not sorry I got it.  Got it mainly for on-road, such as ice patches and 
heavy rain when I need better traction but can't really put it into 
four-wheel drive without damaging the drivetrain.  But, even on-road, I'm 
not so sure I did the right thing.  One problem it can cause, probably only 
because it's in a pickup with such a strong front weight bias, is that when 
you are going around a sharp turn on slippery pavement, when it locks it 
causes the rear to slew strongly sideways.  The owner's manual actually 
cautions about this problem!  First time it happened to me I was pretty scared.

Now that I've said all that, you're on your own :-]

Granville

------------------------------

From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: splitting the list
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 18:43:36 GMT

Bill says

> Now, I've got to be off to put in my new *flame traps*, genuine parts
> 13.60 GBP for the pair of 'em, too bad they couldn't be plumbed into the
> pipes the list goes through :-)

> I reckon the old ones would probably be toxic waste in the PC part of the
> world, but I'll just bung 'em in the waste bin and let the local council
> dispose of 'em, whatever they do.

You can clean the old ones: They're just wire wool in a metal cylinder.
The ones on the rockers come apart easily, the carb ones don't.
Either way a solvent (maybe carb cleaner in tough circumstamces) will
do the trick.  It's a shame to shell out 13 quid on these things.

Cheers,
Steve.

------------------------------

From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: splitting the list
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 18:50:17 GMT

Just a thought, but why don't we split the list between the good
humoured and the humour impaired?

Best Regards,
Steve.  ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 11:21:29 PST
From: labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch)
Subject: Re: CUT THE CRAP AND GROW UP

Lee,

Thank you for your very strait forward post.  I was begining to think I've
been associating with a bunch of animals.

Jason LaBranch

> Okay folks, can we just stop this inane bullshit?
> I did not subscribe to this list to hear boys treat women like objects or have 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 46 lines)]
> llevitt@idcresearch.com
> PS. If you didn't figure it out, I am a *man* telling you *boys* that what 
> you're doing is *wrong*. It is hurtful, stupid and juvenile. So just stop it.

------------------------------

From: michaels@sierra.net
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 11:32:16 -0800
Subject: Re: 	The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

unsubscribe lro-digest

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 11:38:51 -0800
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: Re: Any Series Landie Owners?

Here's something I caught on rec.autos.4x4. frighteningly enough, it is a
response to one of taylor's queries. however, i wondered what the "taper
roll bearing conversion for the transfer case" was?

-jory

>        Hey,
>        I've got a 1952 series 1 SWB.  I'm 6' and yes I could do with a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>transfer case ?  I got set up last year and it's rather good.
>                        Simon.

------------------------------

From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Oil seals, aluminum welding & lightweights
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 19:55:10 GMT

> Lightweight buying hints;  someone wanted some,
 I've been driving one since '85 or '86. The main things I've noticed
> are: appear to have a slightly lower center of gravity, the parts 
 that aren't civilian issue are more expensive like body parts, 
> prone to rust at the joint between the dash cowl panel and the top 
 of the bulkhead.

Yes to all the above, plus they use different springs (fewer leaves)
but you can replace these in pairs with good old civvy springs.  Also
Lightwights are a couple of inches narrower than civvy's - very useful
offroad, along with the better view over the bonnet (chuck the spare
in the back).  Avoid the 24v electrics if cost is important to you.
Diesel versions are rare, but available.  Fuel fill is under each seat
(twin tanks).  The only SIII's with all metal dashes too!  The
wheelarches are huge - you can get all sorts of tyres in there!

Best Regards,
Steve.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 00:36:32 +0001 (GMT)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Return of the Dark Prince

Sorry folks, but this one has to be brought up again. My 109 had a classic 
Lucasism last night, and I'm more convinced than ever that these electics 
were left behind by ol' Joe as some kind of evil joke.

I've had a leak in my diesel tank for a couple of weeks now. Not serious, 
just a drip, drip, drip, sort of leak.  It started the morning I went out 
to install the new fuel level sender.  Not as a result of the replacement 
mind you. The leak preempted me and had dribbled most of the fuel on the 
ground overninght... but I digress. The outcome is that I have a new fuel 
sender, but haven't had a chance to use it yet.  It still sits at Empty, 
because now it really is.

I haven't had time to patch the tank, it would take a couple of days, and
I've been busy. It seems alright if I keep less than a gallon of diesel in
it and just fill up often... and park on the right sort of incline... so
the fuel doesn't reach the leak. 

Well it was bound to happen, last night, about quarter past ten, I was
puttering home from work and the engine said pbththth.pbth..
pbthh...th...th....thhhfoo.  I knew I would cut it too close sooner or
later, so I had kept a 24 litre can of diesel in the back (old EtOH
cannister from my lab... tough... but a really dumb barrel shape with a
wide mouth). 

I coasted to the side, blocked half of the residential road, and began 
trying to fill the tank. The shapes were all wrong, so I ended up filling 
my oil drain pan with diesel and using the spout to transfer to the 
filler. This was fine until I cut a large hole in my finger with the can, 
got diesel in the wound (ouch), and poured most of the fuel in my shoes.
So far so good for a Land-Rover evening.

My fears of having drained the pump or sucked up goo were soon allayed,
and without pump priming or further ado, the engine happily grumbled to
life... but wait... what was that other sound. A sort of hoo...hooo...
hoooo...hoooooot.t.t.t in time to the awakening motor... 
hooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT

It was the bloody horn.  The horn was going off, of its own accord, in 
triumphant celebration of its revived 4 cylinder friend.... but Series 
IIa horns are not wired into the ignition.  The kill switch and key did 
not stop the cacophony, no sir. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT continued the horn. 
Ouch said the gash in my hand.

Now don't try to tell me these electics are not posessed. Don't say they
aren't in cahoots with one another. I simply will not believe you.  I
opened the bonnet bracing myself against the clamor (as windows began to
light in the surrounding houses.) I poked, proded in the dark for a
wire... a vibrating horn shaped object, but no. The tractor battery I have
is JUST large enough to make it impossible to reach the horn without
REMOVING the battery or the grill. (where is that fuse box? Oh, that's
right, got no fuse box).  So I set about the back of the 109, horn hooting
away, a crowd gathering, and I looked for my spanner.  Found the tool,
hopped out the back spanner in one hand, other hand over my head to stem
the flow of blood, neighbours looking on incredulous (bemused? distraught?
incensed?). 

After cursing and bashing around in the dark, breaking several small wires
and bullet connectors, I got the negative terminal free, and
HOOOOOOOOoorumph... silence reigned. More tinkering, 40lb battery out,
horn disconnected... reverse procedure, and I was ready to go. 

Bleeding profusely, I waved to the crowd the wave of a wounded war hero. 
Thank you all, it's under control. Go back to your homes, retreat to your
beds. Good night. 

My horn does not now work. Neither do my spot lights nor an assortment of 
other small electrical gremlins I have yet to discover. The beast got me 
home, as it always does, but I still wonder: who would design a diesel 
powered horn, and is there an aftermarket cut-off valve? Will I have to 
re-wire the spot lights after I fix the tank to make the fuel sender work?

Confused,
Another Victim of the Dark Prince.

C. R. Wright                                    Dept. of Genetics
+44 (0)1223 333970 telephone                    Univ. of Cambridge
+44 (0)1223 333992 telefax                      Downing Street, Cambs.
cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk                        CB2 3EH, England

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 20:34:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Trade for Land Rover

Michael Williams looks for illumination....

Mike...

The license plate light assy is pretty much the same as ones used on
Triumph's, MG's and other smaller British cars. If you can find a junk yard
around your area with older British stuff, you might get lucky.

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 17:39:28 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: ELECTRICS FROM HELL?

In message <199503162139.VAA04653@chunnel.uk.stratus.com>  writes:
> Greetings,
> A few weeks ago, while contemplating the purchase of something ('95 Disco) 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> the hood) I received a startling illumination that still has me in a state of
> puzzled awe:

So Bob, some of us have very different experiences.  My only problems as a long 
time Lucas equiped car owner (Land Rover, MGBGT, TR3) has been burnt out bulbs, 
and worn generator brushes.  However, I was always having electrical problems 
with the Bosch systems in the 2 VWs and one Saab I owned.  I hate to think of 
the $$$$ spent trying to fix the hicup in the Saab's Bosch fuel injection system
or count the number of relays I had to replace in the Saab, or the times I was 
pulled over in a VW because a light wasn't working (flakey connections).

> Or should I keep my eye VERY closely on my BMW brakes?

Who knows, the brake parts on my British cars are Gurling or Lokheed  I have no 
idea how Lucas does on brake systems
> Bob Peterson
> Portola Valley, CA
> that
> I swore I would NEVER again do (any vehicle with the LUCAS logo present under
So what part of Apple are you with and are you in Cupertino? 

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: 16 Mar 95 20:36:52 EST
From: "WILLIAM  L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: Uncle Joe

Dixon asked that I write a few lines for his newsletter, so prompted by a lot of
the bad press that uncle joe has recieved, and since he is no longer alive to
defend himself I give you :-
 
   " Lucas, the lord of light "
 Uncle Joe, a staunch Quaker would not have liked the title, it is one he would
have given to his maker.
but as a maker Joe had talent,he built a large company on his skills as a
manufacturer of automoblie and aircraft components. So those of you who complain
about Lucas quality should think twice about aircraft travel, there are a lot of
his parts up there. 
 Lucas have been making car components for most of this century and the company
have a good history of value engineering their products, common parts are used
whenever possible so it is relatively easy to mix and match Lucas parts, in the
following I attempt to illustrate this, some of my advice will be easier for the
Brits and Canadians to follow since the availability of common spares is easier.
 Since I have owned 20 or 30 ser 1 and 2 Land Rovers and 4 or 5 Range Rovers and
never a 90 the advice I can give is limited to those models, any one who can
afford a 90  can afford new parts anyway.

  Starter motors. early petrol engined vehicles were fitted with Lucas M418
starters, the 418 refers to the dia of the stator, ie 4.18". this range of
motors was fitted to many british cars  with variation on the direction of
rotation, the output shaft and the mounting flange, general the othe rparts were
common, so if the stator is faulty it can be replaced with the stator from anty
other 418 stator, similarly the rear endplate and brushgear, the more skilful
could even change the rotor and commutator.
 In the mid 60s an M45 ( 4.5" dia stator) starter was fitted to the 3 litre
austin cars that would fit directly to the 2.25 petrol engine and serve as a
heavy duty starter. 
 The M45 range ( as fitted to the Landie diesel engine) of pre engaged starters
was used on a large range of diesel engines, differences being the direction of
rotation, mounting bracket and drive gear, often the changing of the end bracket
is all that is required to use say a starter from a Perkins engine,  I have
adapted a Massey Ferguson starter to fit my Landie just by changing the end
bracket.

 Dynamoes, the range of dynamo's fitted to Land rovers over the years, the C40,
C42 etc agin used many common parts and were fitted to the range of cars made by
austin, morris, wolseley,mg, etc some of these had slightly different pulley
arrangements but the parts are easily interchanged.

 Distributors, most 4 cyl lr's were fitted with a model 25D4 distributor, this
range of ditributor was fitted to  the 4 cylinder engines made by the BL, BLMC
and Leyland cars such as mini, 1100, mgb. mg midget, sprite, wolseley in
addition to some rootes group models, ie sunbeam, singer etc. these all shared
the same casing and centre shaft, different flyweights, cam and vacuum advance
units were fitted so if you have a landie distibutor that has worn bearings or
even a broken casing then using the cam, flyweights and springs, and vacuum
advance parts from your rover build them into a 25D4 from a mini or similar. If
you wish to do some tuning of the ignition system then these parts can be used
to change the advance retard characteristics etc.

Wiper motors 67 on , again the wiper motors were common to most british cars,
detail differences being the angle of wipe and the park position, so it is easy
to change just the motor part for one from another model vehicle, or change the
gear inside which controls the angle of wipe. The park position can be changed
by moving the cam plate by 180 deg. from memory the angle of wipe for a  Land
Rover was 110 deg. the mini and 1100 series had 120 deg of motion . so it is not
necessary to pay the exhorbitant prices that Land Rover name envokes. 

Alternators  The 15, 16, 17 and 18 ACR models shared  many a common part, the
drive end endplate being offered in two versions to suit either side of the
engine, these can easily be rotated through 120 deg to siut either side of the
engine, this may necessitate the drilling out of a tapped hole on the mounting
bracket to enable bolt to be passed through instead of a screw.

 The thing to do is to look closely at the parts from the other vehicles and you
will see the simiolarities and they thus become a meccano exercise to adapt to
your landie.

 I have the Lucas parts lists for 1967 and 1970 here in Western New york if you
have any specific enquiries.give me a call  716 438 0890.

 regards  Bill  Leacock

 PS the alternator on my buick failed last week, cost me 5 times what iI ould
have paid for a Lucas in the UK and I had to change parts on it to make it fit.
but as a good GM employee I make no derogatory remarks about the US national car
parts maker.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 17:42:35 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: New list for pigs.....

In message <199503162218.WAA04681@chunnel.uk.stratus.com>  writes:
> > > Whut is Berkely...is zat a scool or sumthing?
> > > Just kidding folks....no flames please.    Rick Crider
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>  More commonly known as; The Peoples Republic of Berkeley
> Oink Oink, Bill G.

So Bill what decade are you living in?  Its 1995 here in California.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 18:09:34 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: re: 2 lists

Well, according to my categorization of the last digest the breakdown is

Non LR issues (e.g., off road instr.): 25%
Discussion of split: 12%

Maybe a third list is needed: irrelevant.  This would cut out a solid 
30% of the postings!

Just as seriously. My impression is that the D family shares a lot of 
connections to the S family.  I don't think there's a clear cut line 
between the two.  Perhaps the opinions of those in the UK could shed 
more light on this since on this side of the pond we suffered a serious 
time gap between the 70's and late 80's.

Cheers,

Jeremy Bartlett

------------------------------

From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 20:32:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: two lists

If there were two lists, then those who wanted both could subscribe to both.
Those who only had one type of LR (certainly the majority,) could then decrease
the number of messages to sort through.  I agree theat sorting programs would
be fine, but not everyone (infact, probably the vast minorty) has them.  Even
fewer are able to program them to do what they awant.  

Henry Wilson
'94 Disco 5-spd

------------------------------

From: ChipEast@aol.com
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 21:43:03 -0500
Subject: Its been a long time...

It has been a while since I posted so here goes the update.

First, after going out of town, being too busy to download my mail, and the
mail server problems at LRO Digest, I ended up with 2 weeks worth of rover
mail filling my box.  I have spent an hour tonight reading it and I'm only
half way through.

Two weeks ago, I set out for the Batesville, Ga. Rally on saturday...after
telling Taylor that I would show him my Rover, I went by his place Saturday
night.  Within a mile, the charge light comes on...figuring it was the wiring
and dreading it was the voltage regualtor (where do you find one of those on
a saturday night in the middle of no-where in South Carolina?) I pulled up to
his place.  After a breif introduction (I think he was in my freshman english
class in college, or at least a guy that looks like him was...) I started to
play with the wiring.  Well after no improvement, my girlfriend and I went
out to dinner.  We made it back to her place on battery power and I got up
early Sunday morning to check the terminals on the generater in the daylight
before heading off to the Rally.  Fresh terminals and the light still glowing
was a fatal sign, dashing my hopes for the Rally.

Monday morning (still in SC, near where I wnet to college) I set out to the
place that rebuilt the generater 18 months ago to try to figure out what was
the problem, and how I was going to get home (2.5 hours away in Charlotte,
NC).

Now comes the moral of the story so pay attention all of you who have not
changed to an alternater yet...

The generater died because I had over-tightned the belt.  Since the generater
does not have a bearing at the back like an alternater does, the pull of the
belt causes the back of the armature to push against the side of the housing,
wearing out the coils and all the guts inbetween.  So...go outside right now
and loosen the belt.  The proper tension for the belt of a generater will
still allow you to turn the pully with your fingers exerting pressur.  In
other-words, all the tension necessary is the minimal amount to turn the
pully!!!!!!  Really.

Most of you know that the generater for a Ford tractor is the same as ours,
but a Mercedes model fits too...since I went with a rebuilt one the guy had
in stock, the Benz model is the same inner pieces, just different numbers on
the housing and one less place for Lucas to be written.

Taylor seemed like a nice guy, I am sorry to hear that after all the
questions, he is no-longer interrested in a Series model...

In parting, another Lucas joke to go with my troubles:

     LUCAS, ORIGINAL INVENTOR OF THE INTERMITENT WIPERS.

Later...............Chip

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 18:59:17 PST
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re: two lists better than one?

Last time this came up I was much opposed to any split, but the volume
was much lower then. It is getting a bit out of hand at times now, and
I think it would be good to do something, either along the lines 
of the coding that Carl suggested or at least reducing the amount
of extraneous material posted; the last week has seen plenty of that.
Also, I get the feeling sometimes that we post replies to everyone
when it may be more appropriate to send them only to the person
involved.

Just a few thoughts before we all drown in e-mail!

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

From: sgross@enet.net
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 20:39:17 PST
Subject: RE: Defender 90 Insurance 

Annual premium with State Farm Mutual:

1994 Defender 90:  $818.00
1987 Range Rover:    707.00

steve

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 06:55:27 +0200 (METDST)
From: S|ren Vels Christensen <velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: 88"+109"=121" Ford

Following is from "oasen", the DL-RK monthly.

There is a guy on Iceland called Bjarni Bredholt (spelling is not correct,
it's not possible to squeeze north Atlantic letters into 7 bits). He is 
currently building quite a special 4 x 4. On a home made frame he put a
Ford 3-400hk engine, a C6 automatic and a Borg Warner reduction. Front/rear
axles are Dana 44/60. 44" Fun Country tyres on 19" modified Landcrusher
rims. Ford power steering. Wheelbase is 121".

The body is 109" STW in the front and 88" in the rear to reduce overhang.
The body was too narrow for this setup so he cut it down the middle and
added 25 cm with. Makes a cute little centre window in the windshield.

Balloon tyres are very popular on Iceland. Regular tyres makes ugly tracks
that takes 10-20 years to disappear. So offroad freaks drive out in the 
winter and let most of the air out of tyres. When they are ready to go home
they pump the tyres with a little compressor in the engine compartment.

The Lava Rover looks real violent on the pictures. Bjarni estimates a 
year or two before the "car" is ready to drive.

It has original wing mounted mirrors. There aren't many trees on Iceland :-)

He estimates a price about 20.000 pounds when the contraption is finished.

It's nice that someone has the courage to invest a large amount of money and
time on something useful instead of something that has to be towed on a 
trailer to a sponsored show.

sv/aurens

------------------------------

From: "geoffrey.m.halaburt"
Date: 16 Mar 95 23:39:59 
Subject: Re: Modifications to US Defender 90 using UK parts?

>UK Hardtops/Rear Doors: Is it possible to replace the US 1/2 rear door 
>with a UK full rear door.  And is it possible as part of the same 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>attention. I've yet to check on shipping charges but with US tops at 
>$2,000 these are likely to be secondary.

Have you seen the very limited edition (only about 50 -- one per US dealer) '95 
D90 with metal hard top.  Looking at this should give you good ideas.  They're 
all green with a white top (above the window tops).  Very sharp looking.  There 
is a world of difference in quality, water/air tightness, etc. compared to the 
fiberglass ($2k) top.  These vehicles are listing at about $32k US and many of 
them are still sitting on dealers lots.  The top can be removed but it is a 6 
hour job (according to dealer) and it doesn't fold for storage like the 
fiberglass.  The only thing I didn't like about it was it really doesn't have a 
main rollbar (much less the full safari cage).  The extensions come back off 
the windshield surround and have a special bolt attachment to the hardtop 
itself.  You definately don't want to roll this one.  I also didn't like the 
white colored sun visors or (front only) white vinyl headliner -- it will just 
get nasty looking vs. the standard D90 black stuff.  The rest of the interior 
is identical to the soft top version.

The problems you will have with the UK metal roofs (and what LRNA had to deal 
with on the limited edition D90's) is the US-only roll bar around the 
windshield and the extensions back to the main roll bar.  The main roll bar and 
safari cage will also cause trouble.  The fiberglass top deals with all this.  
I don't like the fiberglass top because it has a relatively crude look to the 
workmanship and dealers report bad water leaks.  But it is neat how it folds up.

My '94 US D90 originally had the "Tickford" full canvas top.  It was a 
nightmare.  3 Zippers tore out, all the windows were badly opaqued right out 
the box, and it fit very poorly.  I don't think mine was unique.  From the day 
I bought it in 8/94, the (excellent) dealer, Pioneer in Denver, promised me a 
replacement as soon as the new "Bestop" version came out.  It finally did it 
2/95, by which time I had moved the San Francisco, California area.  My new 
dealer, was hesitant, but with some prodding, and a call to LRNA, he honored 
the replacement (officially against LRNA policy -- Bad Tickfords apparently are 
only supposed to be replaced by new bad Tickfords).  The Bestop is incredible.  
The difference in design, fit, and overall quality is unbelievable.  I es
pecially like the crystal-clear ZIP-OUT (not roll up) windows.  You can also 
now open the rear 1/2 door without unsnapping and unzipping.  Check it out on 
the '95s at your dealer.

-Geoff

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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