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1 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu11Re: That does it -- I am not sensitive!
2 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu11Re: OOF: RE: Bullbars
3 jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)26Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instr
4 azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woo21 Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instr
5 azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woo17Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instruction
6 azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woo21Re: lockers
7 azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woo13Re: Overdirve/seatbelts
8 azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woo22Re: 109s vs 88s
9 LANDROVER@delphi.com 19Re: The Prince of Darkness
10 Charlie Wright [cw117@mo16Re: OOF: RE: Bullbars
11 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu19An Introduction to Offroad Instruction
12 Tom Stevenson [gbfv08@ud20Bush winches
13 "Lapa, Hank" [hlapa@Zeus73American Angst
14 Mr Ian Stuart [Ian.Stuar22 Re: Sighting ... believe it or not
15 CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR 19Unsubscribe
16 James Kirkpatrick - INEN213 Canadian Rovers 4 Sale
17 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em47Re: Forgiveness Requested
18 "Stefan R. Jacob" [1000432Re: lockers; front oil seal
19 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em21Re: 3 Canadian Rovers 4 Sale
20 sgross@enet.net 23ARB airlock differentials
21 RLZiegler@aol.com 37Swivel goop & heater
22 Roger Sinasohn [sinasohn27Re: Make love, not cars
23 Keerock2@aol.com 31Re: 110s
24 Keerock2@aol.com 75Road and Track
25 "RUPERT.OJ.HINE" [91555544 Forward Control
26 jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (15re: Intro to Offroad Instr.
27 jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (24re: Disco/Def90
28 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em13Re: Forward Control
29 Mike Fredette [mfredett@30[not specified]
30 jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (42Modifications to US Defender 90 using UK parts?
31 Kerry Jones ext 8002 [RG14[not specified]
32 Mike Fredette [mfredett@30[not specified]
33 abalser@salrm.alaska.edu16two lists better than one?
34 "Mugele, Gerry" [Gerry.M17TLCs
35 Guy Arnold [GUY@facade.a64Landrover for sale
36 "Kerner, Robert" [FORK0@14Tires
37 jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)42Re: two lists better than one?
38 Charlie Wright [cw117@mo23Re: Forward Control
39 William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.31Re: lockers
40 Morgan Hannaford [morgan21Re: New list for pigs.....
41 Easton Trevor [TEASTON@D8Autocar
42 dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu26Re: Tires
43 Mike Fredette [mfredett@11[not specified]
44 dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu15Re:sophistication?
45 Mike Fredette [mfredett@18[not specified]
46 cs@crl.com (Michael Carr43Re: two lists better than /Introduction to Offroad?
47 Craig Murray [craigp@ocs28Re: Forward Control
48 Russell Burns [burns@cis18D-90 starting to fall apart.
49 LANDROVER@delphi.com 26Re: American Angst
50 LANDROVER@delphi.com 20Re: TLCs
51 sgross@enet.net 18Introduction
52 "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" [724Junk mail
53 RovingNut@aol.com 31Politics, Bradies, & Winches
54 cs@crl.com (Michael Carr31Re: 3 Canadian Rovers 4 Sale
55 Sanna@aol.com 7Re: two lists better than one?
56 RICKCRIDER@aol.com 12Re: 110s
57 RICKCRIDER@aol.com 13Re: No Subject
58 RICKCRIDER@aol.com 8Re: New list for pigs.....
59 RICKCRIDER@aol.com 13Re: two lists better than one?
60 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em12Re: Forward Control
61 WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbi25two lists
62 Craig Murray [craigp@ocs23Re: Forward Control
63 mcdpw@pacific.pacific.ne37109s vs 88s


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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: That does it -- I am not sensitive!
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 9:01:21 GMT

Whaddya mean the Yanks bailed us out for the second time.Bollocks!
John Wayne did it all on his own! *Anyone* knows that!
*And* in a jeep.Talk about handicapped.
Cheers
Mike Rooth 

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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: OOF: RE: Bullbars
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 9:32:43 GMT

> Hello, Duncan A D Rose is away from the office but will be returning on
> 24.04.95.  For further assistance please contact Keith Cameron on 644269.
none
Is this supposed to be a joke?
Mike Rooth

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 01:29:55 -0800
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instr

[schnip]

>I despise PC, but despite that I get on fine with bimbos, coons, stumpies,
>queers (OK, maybe not queers.....) etc.etc. Cos they can tell when the barbs
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks for explaining your tolerance and openmindedness with this post
Andy.  I for one appreciate the insight into your delightful little
worldview.

>are covered with sugar or poison. And they fight like with like instead
>blowing all the diodes down their left side........

I guess it's just too bad for the queers, even if they own land rovers
and/or can divine the nature of your "barbs"...

-jory

ps: Don't worry, with the attitudes recently expressed on lro@ (which
surprised even me), I'm sure your homophobia will be well received and
widely supported. Good show!

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From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject:  Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instr
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 09:51:49 UNDEFINED

/
/------------------------------------------------------------------------
/                                 PC PRIMER
/------------------------------------------------------------------------

I heard they were pissed off with being repressed by all these nasty 
insensitive people who fall over laughing whenever the letters PC are 
mentioned, adn had decided to rename it    (fanfare)  
Social Sensitivity.............

Cant improve on that really...........

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instruction
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 09:54:36 UNDEFINED

/how to drive is just plain unacceptable.  And the way you did it, as if these 
/young women were a subhuman species that you personally find repulsive says a 
/lot about you.  What I read from your message is that you hate women, and 
/find them totally disgusting.  Maybe you should move to a place where you can 

I would like to state here and now, in public, that I have absolutely nothing 
against women. Every man should own at least three.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: lockers
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 10:01:43 UNDEFINED

/was designed to leak.  I wonder if the English thought that cars were 
/supposed to leak, kind of like bleeding, if the fluid was coming out then 
/stuff couldn't get in.  Hey that's a clever thing right?

Yes. That's right. It saves having to change the oil. You just top it up every 
day, adn it slowly changes itself. So you dont damage your engine when you 
forget to change the oil.

Also, a lot of heavy plant DOES have seals designed to leak. The slight 
overpressure adn leakage of oil keeps the dirt out of teh seals. Not sure if 
this is the reason with Landrovers tho.......

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re:  Overdirve/seatbelts
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 09:57:37 UNDEFINED

/    Rick Crider writes: `Overdrive Whine - is this normal? and 

Only if you repress it by using the insensitive non-PC term Cruising Gear.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: 109s vs 88s
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 10:22:10 UNDEFINED

> Any comments on the positive qualities of each of these vehicles? I am

There are a lot of landrovers hereabouts. The general rule of thumb is that 
farmers use 88s cos they are a much better towing platform. But there is sod 
all room in em without a trailer.

So everyone else who doesnt spend their lives towing things uses 109s with 
LOTS of space in teh back.

I have a 90 cos of the higher gearing adn consequent fuel consumption (which 
was important on the dole....). If I were doing it again, I'd get a 110, wait 
till the day it was out of warranty, adn fit 90 final drive.........

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 05:57:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: The Prince of Darkness

Trevor comes up with...

> It just occurred to me that LUCAS is an acronym to explain the function of
> the switch
> "   Lighting     Usually     Causes   A     Short."
> Any other versions out there?

I've got a black T-shirt with the word LUCAS across in large letters. The U
is mostly blacked out. Above it is the Lucas lion, getting shocked from a
wire.. Below it says "A good days work and home before dark"

Cheers
Mike

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 10:58:15 +0001 (GMT)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: OOF: RE: Bullbars

On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, Mike Rooth wrote:

> > Hello, Duncan A D Rose is away from the office but will be returning on
> > 24.04.95.  For further assistance please contact Keith Cameron on 644269.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> Is this supposed to be a joke?
> Mike Rooth

I think you got the answerphone...

cw

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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: An Introduction to Offroad Instruction
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 12:18:07 GMT

Dear Sir and Madam,
Your comments are noted and filed.The filing system is round.
I assure you of the following:

1)That the individuals concerned are not,and do not feel,in any
way "opressed",as you put it.

2)That we,in this country are perfectly well able to order our
own affairs without interference,particularly from foreigners.

Yours Sincerely

M.J.Rooth

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From: Tom Stevenson <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Bush winches
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 12:14:25 +0000 (GMT)

In the dim and distant past when I was a scout we used the two pole
bush winch described by Andy Woodward to tension aerial runways. I think
it's called a spanish windlass; it worked very well. However, unless you
cart two immense poles around with you, it may not be easy to do. Far
easier to get the two immense poles to give you a push or use the
high-lift as a short pull winch.
The other gadget I have heard about but never seen are winch hubs; the
principle being that drums attached to the wheelnuts wind in two ropes
as the front wheels turn, thus hauling you out.
Cheers!
-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(0475) 530581  Fax:(0475) 530601

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 08:13:01 EST
From: "Lapa, Hank" <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com>
Subject: American Angst

     Friends, Rovers, (and especially) Suffering Countrymen,
     
        This posting, while of possible interest to many and related to 
     other recent postings, is NOT about LAND-ROVERS, the greatest vehicle 
     in the world.  Use your DELETE key NOW and save youself the complaint.
     
        The reactions to the 
     OBVIOUSLY-*intended*-to-be-funny-but-not-taken-that-way-by-all piece 
     are tame compared to what I've seen on some other, (questionably) more 
     academic lists, but I beg indulgence to provide some insight for the 
     benefit of those outside the undefended borders of Imperial America, a 
     country second only to North Korea, Syria, the IRA, Somalian warlords, 
     Hollywood....
     
        A few weeks ago, in the midst of the Smithsonian Enola Gay display 
     embarassment, the Bill in Congress to monitor the net, and the 
     November elections (2nd American Revolution), a couple of lists I 
     subscribe to were rife with panic over how the morons of America 
     (meaning regular, hard-working, taxpaying suckers, that is, most of 
     us) were all set to persecute the righteous (meaning artists, 
     academics, hungry children, bathhouse society, etc).  A large 
     percentage of the PC outrage, paranoia really, came from ".edu" 
     addresses.  [NOTE: I am *not* NOT *!!NOT!!* saying that most or all 
     such address holders are paranoid, but I'm sure this disclaimer will 
     somehow be misinterpreted by someone.  Perhaps I'm just being 
     paranoid.  Why is everyone always against me?]  
     
        Anyway, through the foggy haze of the sixties still clinging to the 
     e-mail messages on these other lists was a description from one 
     no-doubt tenured elitist who related how he and his friends were 
     alarmed at the similarities between present-day America (meaning 
     Gingrich, Republicans) and the end of the Weimar Republic/rise of Nazi 
     Germany.  I really should have asked which they found more alarming -- 
     the official government policy on classifying and rewarding people on 
     the basis of race, or the efforts by the government to take away the 
     firearms of decent, law-abiding citizens.  But I didn't.  Another 
     post, worried about arts funding, feared that we'd be infested by the 
     mainstream ilk of Kenny G and Garth Brooks if the National Endowment 
     for the Arts (NEA) didn't get its millions of dollars to hand out for 
     jars of urine, bloody rags, and other, less self-sustainable 
     expressions of culture.  So who's on TV last night visiting Congress 
     to lobby in support of NEA money?  Kenny G, who said he learned sax on 
     taxpayer money and wants his kid to do the same, and, you guessed it, 
     Garth Brooks.  The mind wobbles.  Still, no worse than the famous 
     toxicologist Meryl Streep testifying before Congress on what 
     pesticides are safe to use on apples.  But hey, isn't this what makes 
     America great -- truth need never be an insurmountable obstacle where 
     "correctness" is concerned.  
     
        Is it true what I've heard about the disgust our UK friends felt 
     when they hosted the Clintons and their baby-faced staffers/friends to 
     commemorate the D-Day sacrifices of our nations' sons and treasure only 
     to have it turned into a party event by these brave, new leaders?  Did 
     this croud of wet-behind-the-ears American cretins steal your towels 
     and silverware like they did on our aircraft carrier off the Normandy 
     coast?
     
        OK, here's  a Land-Rover question after all:  How can you a real 
     Land-Rover driver from a VW microbus driver?  (Many of you have 
     already answered.)  
     
        
     
     Hank "Not-in-MY-Navy" Lapa   ;-]
     Series II
     Red, White and Blue
     Don't hate me, I don't hate you
     Just wake up and get a clue!

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From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Wed, 15 Mar 1995 14:42:07 +0000
Subject:       Re: Sighting ... believe it or not

>      Ah, the places they turn up!
There are supposed to be a pile of 101's buried under stage-makeup on the 
new Stallone move, Judge Dredd.

Now there is a man who knows about flame wars!

(BTW - dig out your old back issues and read the Dredd stories looking out 
for the little social barbs & satirical comments: 25% of all new housing 
*must* be made available to the City to allow citizens to be moved out so 
that sub-standard CityBloks can be replacement; and other themes)

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
WWW sites: Work -- <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/>      
           Play -- <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>
#======================================================================#

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 09:40:31 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Unsubscribe

I have no way of knowing if messages I have posted in the past few days
have gotten through.  Bounces, when they do occur, take *three days* to
reappear.  The E-Mail system for Prodigy has collapsed (they admit it, due
to a software bug from four months ago that they apparently have no
intention of fixing), so I'm going with another service provider.   See
ya'll in a couple of days.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 10:05:07 -0500 (EST)
From: James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 <jkirkpat@acs.ryerson.ca>
Subject: 3 Canadian Rovers 4 Sale

Someone requested a repost of the three Rovers for sale here in Toronto, 
here you are:

	1960 109" pickup - $1500
	
	1968 109" station wagon, pto, winch, warn hubs, tropic roof- $1500 

	1970 88"  warn hubs - $2000

I haven't seen these yet, but he said they are suffering from typical 
frame rot.

Contact Paul Burgess (905) 477-1328

Best of Luck, 
Jay Kirkpatrick

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 10:20:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Forgiveness Requested

On 14 Mar 1995, R. Pierce Reid, OH wrote:

> I am writing for forgiveness for destroying a Land Rover 

	It is actually worse than you think...

> I hosing out some crud under the wheel wells and was getting the mud off the
> frame -- I mean that's ok, right?  You can't get in trouble just hosing off the
> frame?

	Not only acceptable, but even advisable.  However...

> I am really concerned about the environmental damage here!  What about all the
> undiscovered and undoumented species living it?  What if some new kind of
> wonder-drug could have been synthesized from that unidentifiable mold-patch I
> unthinkingly scrubbed off the winch?  It'll take me years to build up that 4wd,
> rolling eco-system up again! 

	No only the eco-system under your Rover needs to be attoned for, but
	think of the damage the tire foam, soap, and other cleaning agents
	are doing to the environment!  The tire foam contains cfc's, now
	the ozone hole is going to get bigger.  Algification of ponds 
	from the soap used is going to lead to greater patchs of pond scum
	(as opposed to cesspool scum ie. Mike which is a 100% environmentally
	safe and efficient system for treating waste).

> Should we start a support group for people thinking about washing their Series
> Rovers?

	No, just an educational programme to make them aware of the 
	environmental damage caused by their cleaning products, an accounting
	of the energy inputs to such products, & why it is far more 
	ecologically conscious to use just plain water of the frame, drums
	etc...

	Rgds,

	Dixon

	PS.  Bailed out Europe twice?  Oh yeah, the cold war counts for 
	     the second time I guess.  Silly Yanks did little, if anything
	     in the Great War...

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Date: 15 Mar 95 10:56:21 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: lockers; front oil seal

Robert Kerner wants to know

> My question is about the front engine oil seal.  Is it as straight forward
> as it seems?  Just remove radiator and front panel, Pulley, and timing
> cover, and there you are???  (*snip...*)

*Depends* ... if the seal has already been replaced before you don't even
have to take off the timing cover. Clean the circular retaining plate well
and check whether it is affixed to the cover with screws or rivets. If you
see rivets, the cover must come off; the rivets have to be drilled out, and
there's a chance of debris falling into the timing gear housing in the
process. If it is held in place by screws, just take them out and the
retaining plate will come off. You can now pry out the seal, taking care
not to foul or scratch the crankshaft surface or the cover opening. Clean
and dry everything well, smear the outer seal surface with additonal sealing
compound (such as Hylomar), apply grease liberally to the crankshaft surface
and the inner lip of the seal, and press the new seal back in place, the inner
(open) seal lip directed _towards_ the engine. Don't press in too far, let
the retaining plate finish the job. In any case reaffix the retaining plate
with short, hard sharp self-cutting metal screws of an appropriate size so
that on the next seal replacement job the timing cover can stay in place.
Seal the screw threads with Loctite or such.

Oh yes, draining the oil before you start will make for a cleaner overall...

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:19:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: 3 Canadian Rovers 4 Sale

On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 wrote:

> Someone requested a repost of the three Rovers for sale here in Toronto, 
> here you are:

	If anyone is interested, I'll post a description of their
	faults on Tuesday.  I'm going to be in Toronto Monday & have
	arranged to go up and see them...  BYW, the chap has received
	a number of calls on the PTO & PTO/Winch.  He is not interested
	in breaking these vehicles up at this time, so you need not
	call about getting just those items.  Framewise, the SW is in
	bad shape in the centre.  The description sound like if you
	take the roof off to get at the frame, its breaking in two.  
	That bad...  The 88 is in better shape.

	Rgds,

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From: sgross@enet.net
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 09:34:08 PST
Subject: ARB airlock differentials

Any of you have experience with the ARB airlockers?  I installed one in the front of my Defender '90.
I have a Gleason/Torsen locker in the rear diff as well.  The combination works extremely well.

The installation wasn't easy, though... potential for airleaks during installation, several "O" rings in the
unit, 2 of which must be installed by the mechanic doing the work.  If any leaks occur, that means complete
disassembly of the diff, and on the front that is quite a job.

It's also great to have an air compressor on board the vehicle.  I find that by deflating the tires to 10-15psi I
get much improved traction in loose snow, sand, mud.  I found that out when I was driving a Hummer.  The
central tire inflation works great.  It takes only one minute to air up each tire from 10psi to 28psi with the
little ARB compressor.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen C. Gross                 pilot B737   
America West Airlines         e-mail: sgross@enet.net
Phoenix, Arizona                 (602) 860-8051
--------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: RLZiegler@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 12:05:48 -0500
Subject: Swivel goop & heater

This is a repost having originally sent it Mar. 13.
Brad Davis had questions on draining swivels and heating.
RE: Swivel draining
     If you have access to compressed air first blow up through the drain
hole to clear the passage, then blow through the fill hole to pressure the
goop out (will need a rag to help seal the fill hole upon blowing into it).
 One could add kerosene to the swivel and run the vehicle down the road to
thin the goop but this would be my last ditch effort short of disassembly of
the swivel.  'Last ditch' because I don't particularly want thinned 90wt and
goop getting into the bearings of the axle U joint or the hub bearings.
RE: Heater
     One of my fellow L/R owners here in Rutland, VT. has just installed a
heater he got from J.C. Whitney in his '62 SIIA 88 (with a SIII 2.25 lt.
petrol engine).  In some of our coldest weather in Feb. he claimed it put out
so much heat he was sweating and his temp. gauge showed that his engine was
running much cooler never reaching normal temp.  I advised him to close the
valve some thus restricting the amount of heated coolant going into the
heater.  The unit he bought fit inside the vehicle just at the top of the
passenger footwell.  It is a neat installation and one that I will eventually
perform on my 88s when my heaters have to be replaced.  The J.C.W. part # is
94XX3018WF and sells for $119.95.  He ordered it from J.C. Whitney catalog #
567K (on page 23).
    In all my years working for ABP and British Rovers I was never able to
get new Kodiac heaters.  Even though they were made in Canada we were never
successful in finding the address for Kodiac.  Of course I could never be
sure how hard the office tried to get this info.  Anyone out there gotten a
handle on Kodiac heaters or can give the rest of us any info about the makers
of the Kodiac heaters?
Happy Rovering,
Rich Ziegler, L/R mechanic   '63 88 pet. (in pieces) '74 SIII HT pet. daily
driver

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 08:33:16 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Make love, not cars

Bill Leacock asks...
> if the french should make love instead of cars 1) how do I become a
> frenchman? and 

Easy.  Act like everyone's doing you a favor when they pull you out of 
trouble, feed your kids wine, and don't talk to anyone who pronounces 
anything the way it's written.  (But why would you want to?)

> 2) what should Yanks and Limeys amke instead of cars?

Yanks should make Jello, post-it notes, and Lucas/Spielberg movies.  

Limeys excel in three areas: Automobiles (Land Rover, MG, Jensen-Healey, 
etc.), Rock musicians (Beatles, Mark Knoppfler, etc.), and Comedy (John 
Cleese, et al.).  Stick to that and you'll do fine.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

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From: Keerock2@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 12:12:46 -0500
Subject: Re: 110s

Someone recently wrote:

>>Would love to have one of the 500 '93 Defender 110's if you know the
>> whereabouts of one reasonably close.

I did not see the original author's message so I don 't know where
"reasonably close" is, but I do know where two sharp D110s are for sale.

During a recent drive on the way to San Diego I stopped by the LR dealership
in Mission Viejo, CA.  Normally they have a wonderful selection of D90s (one
of which I hope to soon own).  Anyway, to my suprise they had two beautiful
white '93 D110s up on the display racks.  One was a US release (#446/500?)
with front winch and one was a Canadian release (complete with BC tags) with
front/rear winch.  They both had about 40k miles and were *very* clean in and
out.  The US 110 was $45k and the Canadian was about $49k (I guess because of
the rear winch?).  This was about two weeks ago, so maybe they're still
there.  Oh, they said the US unit was on consignment for someone if that
makes a difference.

Unfortunately, no commission for me on these, either.  But tell them "Dean"
sent you any maybe they'll throw in that LR key fob for me when I plunk down
my $30k in the next month or so.  :->

-Dean J. Silliman
-Lake Arrowhead, CA, USA

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From: Keerock2@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 12:13:29 -0500
Subject: Road and Track

Granville Pool wrote:

>But this month's column (April issue) definitely caught my eye and I had to 
>read it.  Why?  Well, the soft-color illustration was of an old Land-Rover 
>88 tooling down a tree-lined lane.  The article is charming, very kind to 
>Land-Rovers and admiring of Australia and New Zealand and the colorful old 
>British autos seen there, especially Land-Rovers:

Okay, that posting and recent mentions of "Dr. Leakey" and "the fact that the
D90 is considered a 'tractor' in some (UK) areas" has compelled me to share a
snip of a Road & Track road test from a few months back:

*****
ROAD TEST: Land Rover Defender 90
The newest British sporting machine.

BY CSABA CSERE

[... He goes on to say it's solid, quirky, loud, but very distinctive, etc.,
and generally gives it a good rating ...]

THE VERDICT
-Highs: Outstanding off-road capability, cuts a distinctive profile among the
herds of commuters.
-Lows: Noisy and tiring on the freeway, lofty sticker price.
-The Verdict: The rustic interpretation of the British sports car.

[The best part is the "Counterpoint" by other test drivers:]

COUNTERPOINT
Hey! Can you hear me? Sure is noisy in here. I'm driving this Defender at 70
on a Detroit freeway. But I don't feel like a commuter during rush hour.
Right now I feel like Dr. Richard Leakey driving back through the Rift Valley
on his way from Lake Rudolf in Kenya after having just unearthed another
Pliocene hominid skull. Last night I felt like I was delivering the serum to
the orphanage in Nome during a blizzard. Are these feelings worth $30K? Put
it this way: In a similarly basic Jeep Wrangler I would feel like a
California high school student cruising for a place to hide from the park
ranger. --Phil Berg

This certainly makes sense if you've quit your marketing job and are now
mining for gold in the Brazilian rain forest. As an option, they should offer
a gorilla to help you drive it. This is not so much a vehicle as a fast
tractor for people in the hostage business. If Steven Seagal is so tough,
let's see him drive it. I hurt myself just getting in (knuckle whack, door
latch). Gearshift seems positioned for use by the driver in the car next to
you. Great power from old Buick V-8, but noise and flapping canvas are
disorienting. For comic relief, clutch and brake pedals have been moved three
inches to the left. I hurt myself getting out, too. --Steve Spence

Having spent last May in a Rover in Borneo, I have built-in prejudices in
favor of this machinery, when, for example, you must surmount a
muck-encrusted rock escarpment the size of the Lincoln Memorial, then ford a
fetid four-foot-deep swamp inhabited by frogs shaped like bowling pins. Of
course, this off-road capability is not entirely necessary to negotiate
Kroger's parking lot. My point being merely that, as day-to-day commuter
material goes, this purpose-built off-roader adapts to tarmac about as
gracefully as a purebred Holstein on in-line skates. --John Phillips
*****

Thought maybe this clip would serve a multipurpose for 1) the D90-Taylors out
there who can't decide if they wanna spend the $30k (as if this clip will
help push them into it), and 2) a good laugh for D90 and Series owners alike
(a little unity?).

Anyone interested in the entire article can get it on AOL or email to me.

-Dean J. Silliman
-Lake Arrowhead, CA, USA

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From: "RUPERT.OJ.HINE" <9155557@arran.sms.ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Wed, 15 Mar 1995 18:24:59 +0000
Subject:       Forward Control

Tom Proctor asked:

> BTW, what exactly is a Forward Control? That sound like something I might
> like to check into.

Michael Loiodice replied:

>It's a *big* mother! There's a few differant varieties, but probably the
>most sought after is the military 101. Foward Control simply means the cab
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>101 is (I think) V-8 powered, lots of ground clearance and pretty much
>un-stoppable off road.

>It probably won't fit in your average garage... so if you really want one,
>build a bigger garage!

Well, as a proud owner of one of the beasts... They are about 7'6" 
tall and 6'0.5" wide and have a wheelbase of...  101" . Originally 
all (except some of the prototypes I think) were powered by the V8 
but some have been converted to various diesels since leaving the 
British Army. Only 2669 were produced and although a few went to 
Luxemburg and one or two other places most were built for the British 
Army. They were built both in both LHD and RHD and 12V and 24V and in 
soft top (General service gun tractor) and two types of hard top - a 
radio van and an ambulance.

The other sort of Forward Control is the six cylinder powered series 
IIB which was based on the 109" chassis and used mainly standard 
series parts. It was built for civilian use and was not as wide but a 
lot taller. Not surprisingly it had a reputation for being a little 
tippy!.

The 101 is fantastic fun and yes it is virtually unstoppable off road 
(even with me driving it!)

cheers 

Rupert

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 10:29:23 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: re: Intro to Offroad Instr.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but could we please try to limit the 
postings to Land Rovers.  Speaking for myself, if I wanted to weigh in 
on one side or the other of a "PC" issue I'd have subsrcibed to a 
different newsgroup.  I suspect there's a fair number of us who'd rather 
keep mud discussions to how to drive in it.

Thanks,

Jeremy Bartlett
jjbpears@ix.netcom.com

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 10:56:09 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: re: Disco/Def90

Clayton,

I can comment on the brake replacement issue at 30K.  NO WAY!  

Whoever told you this is... well.. is an "automobile salesman" .  I've 
put almost 24,000 mi on my '94 D90 with no signs even serious pad wear 
nevermind needing brake replacement.  And even if this fellow were ... 
hmm... honest (let be direct here) the warranty is 3 years/42,000 miles; 
so where does this $1,200 at 30K figure come from (was he trying to get 
you into a Dodge)?

The salesman I've dealt with who are currently selling the beasts often 
know less than the buyer and barely know where the service department is 
never mind the nicities of service/reliability records. 

Cheers,

Jeremy Bartlett
jjbpears@ix.netcom.com

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 14:04:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Forward Control

On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, RUPERT.OJ.HINE wrote:

> Well, as a proud owner of one of the beasts... They are about 7'6" 
> tall and 6'0.5" wide and have a wheelbase of...  101" . Originally 
> all (except some of the prototypes I think) were powered by the V8 

	Both prototypes were powered buy the Rover V8.  (They are about
	twenty miles for here rotting away in the woods)

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Subject: Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instr 
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 13:10:44 -0800
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@sybase.com>

Jory shoots his mouth off,

The sort of sexist, objectifying, testosterone laden shit in Pierre's
"drivel" is truly hurtful. To be perfectly honest, while I was reading it,
I kept trying to convince myself that it was some sort of parody, instead
of facing the fact that people in an ad hoc community to which I belong
could be such total fuckers.

*****************************************************************

	Well gee, how to put this. Get off your sactimonious, self-righteous horse
you FOUL MOUTHED little twirp. Your gutter blathering is far more offensive than
anything Pierre had to say. You notice that none of the Brits had any whining about the
posting, that's because they took it just as most of the rest of us did, TOTALLY HARMLESS British
humor. You need to watch some reruns of Benny Hill or even Monty Python, then get a life.
All you have to do is delete the bloody message if your so damned OFFENDED, or better yet,
unsubscribe. Why is, as ANDY WOODWARD stated in his post, everyone in America so thin skinned
anymore. "Fragile flowers" I belive he said. Always worried about OFFENDING anyone GOD FORBID.
"Basic Human rights", phuii, how EXACTLY were your or anyone elses "Basic Human rights"affected? 
I'm not sexist, never have been, but I CAN take things in the spirit in which they were intended.
In this case, I laughed till I couldn't see straight. Guess maybe that makes my wife and I both
misogynistic POND SCUM, since she thought it was hilarious too. So be it. But keep your pathetic,
petty, college bonehead with nothing better to do, politics off the list.
							VERY CORDIALLY YOURS
							Mike Fredette
							Portland, Oregon

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 12:03:16 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Modifications to US Defender 90 using UK parts?

Apologies if this is a repeat posting; NETCOM (aka NETBLOCK is F'ing me 
around of late).

I'm hoping someone can help with information on some modifications I'm 
considering to a US D90 ('94).  I looking for comments on:

Mounting Spare Tire on Hood/Bonnet:  Are the kits advertised in the UK 
journals suitable for the US models?  It seems like they ought to be.  
Does anyone know of any DOT BS [or other] that would prohibit hood 
mounting [after all we must be protected from ourselves :)]?

Roof Racks:  Does anyone know if the UK spec. D90 roof rack will mount 
on the US hard top?

UK Hardtops/Rear Doors: Is it possible to replace the US 1/2 rear door 
with a UK full rear door.  And is it possible as part of the same 
conversion to mount a UK hartop on a US D90 after removing the rear 
(non-window portion) "roll" cage?  Again, I don't know if the DOT droids 
have objections to this or if any such imports would grab customs 
attention. I've yet to check on shipping charges but with US tops at 
$2,000 these are likely to be secondary.

Point of Ignorance/Translation:  Are the Hoods listed in the UK adverts 
the hardtops?

Lockers:  Does anyone have experience/comments on installing lockers on 
front/rear diffs in the D90.  Just wondering.  Good points? Bad points? 
Unnecessary?  One more thing to break?  Recommend US suppliers?  
Expected costs?

Direct E-mail responses are welcome at:

jjbpears@ix.netcom.com

Cheers,

Jeremy Bartlett

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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 09:03 +1300
From: Kerry Jones ext 8002 <RGTY_KMJ@waikato.ac.nz>

Hi,
    There has been a bit of discussion lately about leather gaiters
for the chrome ball swivel pin housings. My Land Rover dealer here in
Hamilton says he cant get them. I told him the part number and fiche page
from my parts catalogue (Defender 110 1987 -> fiche 2 K10 part RTC 3826)
Does any one know if this part number has changed for if they are still 
available for a 110.

Kerry Jones, Hamilton, NZ
rgty_kmj@waikato.ac.nz

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Subject: Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instr 
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 13:10:44 -0800
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@sybase.com>

Jory shoots his mouth off,

The sort of sexist, objectifying, testosterone laden shit in Pierre's
"drivel" is truly hurtful. To be perfectly honest, while I was reading it,
I kept trying to convince myself that it was some sort of parody, instead
of facing the fact that people in an ad hoc community to which I belong
could be such total fuckers.

*****************************************************************

	Well gee, how to put this. Get off your sactimonious, self-righteous horse
you FOUL MOUTHED little twirp. Your gutter blathering is far more offensive than
anything Pierre had to say. You notice that none of the Brits had any whining about the
posting, that's because they took it just as most of the rest of us did, TOTALLY HARMLESS British
humor. You need to watch some reruns of Benny Hill or even Monty Python, then get a life.
All you have to do is delete the bloody message if your so damned OFFENDED, or better yet,
unsubscribe. Why is, as ANDY WOODWARD stated in his post, everyone in America so thin skinned
anymore. "Fragile flowers" I belive he said. Always worried about OFFENDING anyone GOD FORBID.
"Basic Human rights", phuii, how EXACTLY were your or anyone elses "Basic Human rights"affected? 
I'm not sexist, never have been, but I CAN take things in the spirit in which they were intended.
In this case, I laughed till I couldn't see straight. Guess maybe that makes my wife and I both
misogynistic POND SCUM, since she thought it was hilarious too. So be it. But keep your pathetic,
petty, college bonehead with nothing better to do, politics off the list.
							VERY CORDIALLY YOURS
							Mike Fredette
							Portland, Oregon

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 12:33:18 AKS
From: abalser@salrm.alaska.edu (Andrew Balser)
Subject: two lists better than one?

Hey Everybody,

	I was just beginning to peruse my daily installment of the list, when it dawned on me that perhaps I wasn't the only owner of a series rover that just ignores the stuff about the Rangies and Discos.  Being the lazy bastard I am, I thought I might suggest splitting the list into a series rover list and a Range/Disco list for more efficient perusal, (the Range/Disco folks get to keep Taylor, though).  Thus the two fundamental questions are;

	1) Is this something anyone else is interested in?

	2) Would this make life easier or harder for those administering this service?

	Sooo, let me know if this is a decent/feasible prospect or if I'm just a raving freak after all, (the latter being probable in spite of any merits the idea may have).  Later.

-Andrew Balser

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From: "Mugele, Gerry" <Gerry.Mugele@www.wellsfargo.com>
Subject: TLCs
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 13:36:00 PST

Hi all,

I was asked, by a member of the WASHED heathen hoards, to see if anyone here 
knows of a list like this for Toyota Land Bruisers....er..ah...cruisers.  I 
did suggest to him; that would be akin to a SIG list for refrigerators or 
wall furnaces but he persisted, implying that someone else might like TLCs 
as much as we like LRs.  Ha!...but here goes anyway....

Thanks

Gerry 72 88

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From: Guy Arnold <GUY@facade.adm.clarkson.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 16:38:37 EDT
Subject: Landrover for sale

I have a 1973 Series III swb that I just completed restoring for 
sale. The following is a list of the work I completed on this vehicle 
to bring it back to top notch shape. I will start with the engine 
first. I rebuilt the waterpump,the alternator, starter, replaced the 
fuel pump, replaced the distributor cap, points, condensor, plugs, 
rotor, plugwires, replaced the heater pipes and hoses, replaced 
raditor hoses, replaced rear main seal, replaced main bearings, 
painted the engine, replaced studs on exhaust manifold, adjusted the 
timing and valves, replaced battery. The transmission and transfer 
case has new seals on output shafts, rebuilt the transmission brake, 
changed the gear lube, replaced the clutch disk and pressure plate, 
replaced the rubber boots on all levers. The body repairs included 
rebuilting the fender brackets/anchor points, installled new mud 
sheilds and steering box cover, rebuilt the side marker lights in 
front fenders,replaced the lower frames on both front doors and rear 
door, replaced the all window channels and driver's side fixed glass, 
replaced the transmission cowl and transmission cover, replaced the 
door mirrors, replaced the seats and rebuilt the seat box, replaced 
the left head light assembly (both are plastic now), rebuilt both 
footwells, repaired the door posts, replaced the floor boards with 
1/8" aluminum plate, replaced both headlight bulbs.
The frame, axles and brakes: I replaced the rear crossmember with the 
galvanized model with extensions including new rear spring hangers, 
replaced the transmission crossmember, replaced a body and gas tank 
outrigger, replaced hub seals, replaced all brake lines, rebuilt or 
replaced all wheel cylinders, replaced all brake adjusters, replaced 
fuel line, replaced seal in front differential, replaced front axle 
seals, replaced steering swivels, raico bushings, bearings and swivel 
seals, rebuilt the brake master cylinder, clutch master cylinder and 
the clutch slave cylinder, rebuilt the frame where needed, painted 
the frame and axles, and had the brake drums turned.
I also replaced the heater fan, replaced seals in steering relay, and 
gaskets on steering box, replaced the tie-rod ends. 
The vehicle has been completely sanded, primed and painted. 
Everything works on the vehicle including the windshield washers. All 
lights, gauges and dials work. It has four new 15" B.F.Goodrich Mud 
and 
Snow tires. It has the spare tire rack on the bonnet and the rear 
door. 

The vehicle is not painted an original LR color but is British Racing 
Green. The galvanized trim is left bare. 
As I said at the beginning, the vehicle is in execellent shape. I 
have all the receipts for all original parts from Rovers North and 
Atlantic British plus all receipts from local autoparts store for 
nuts, bolts, paint, sheet metal, etc. I also have photos that I can 
send to serious parties.
The reason I am selling is because I just bought another 1972 Series 
III swb that I am going to rebuild. I also have only a 3 car garage 
and it is full with my restored 1960 MGA 1600  roadster, the 
landrovers, my wife's Montereo, and my Toyota 4x4 so one must go and 
the wife says one LR is enough. I tried to convince her you can't 
have too many but she is not buying it. 
I am asking $7800.00 US for the LR. You can e-mail me or call after 
6pm in the evenings starting Monday, March 20, I am out of town until 
then. 

Guy Arnold

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From: "Kerner, Robert" <FORK0@smtp.ais.ucla.edu>
Subject: Tires
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 13:54:00 PST

I am not a tire person.  I know the biggest tires I am supposed to run on 
the 16" rim is 7.50X16, but what does that translate into current 
specifications.  I currently have 225 75 16 Goodyear Wranglers on it.  I was 
wondering if I could run 235/85R16.  This would give me a little more height 
right?  Plus there are some BF Goodrich Mud Terrains I saw and really liked 
on a Defender 90.    Anyone have any Tires do's and don'ts?

Rob Kerner

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 14:01:34 -0800
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: Re: two lists better than one?

>        I was just beginning to peruse my daily installment of the list,
>when it dawned on me that perhaps I wasn't the only owner of a series
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
>just a raving freak after all, (the latter being probable in spite of any
>merits the idea may have).  Later.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The last time I suggested even considering this (september), I received
about a dozen pieces of supportive email, and a serious amount of flammage
(even though I emphasized my great love of the rangie/disco lineage).

Here was my original post:

>I was wondering is there was any interest in splitting up the mailing list
>along the lines of:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
>groups... it's just that the lro@ volume is high (and I even have all sorts
>of automatic sorting software ;) and these vehicles often have quite
>divergent issues and (to a lesser degree) cultures.

William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> had this to say about splitting
up the list (series-def/rangie/disco):

>>Well, if you did that then it would more or less be an attitude thing.
>>If you look at from the point of view of the marque, what you ought to be
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>>All I ask is that you just go off and do it without cluttering up this
>>list with more noise.

Actually, it wouldn't be fair to characterise all the opposition as
flammage, although the detractors did seem to hold their opinions a bit
more dearly than those in favor of the split.

That said, I would still be in favor of at least discussing such a topical
division.

-jory

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 22:09:45 +0001 (GMT)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Forward Control

On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, Dixon Kenner wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, RUPERT.OJ.HINE wrote:
> > Well, as a proud owner of one of the beasts... They are about 7'6" 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> 	Both prototypes were powered buy the Rover V8.  (They are about
> 	twenty miles for here rotting away in the woods)

I think you're right about the 101 itself, but wasn't there a 109 foward 
control that was the sort of predecessor (and not a very successful one) 
to that?  I seem to remember it had a smaller (6cyl? 4cyl?) engine and 
TWO standard 109 chassis' welded one on top of the other.. so they 
were... gravitationally challenged and prone to roll over.  This is a 
foggy recollection.  Clear things up, wise ones.

BTW, there was a fine article on the 101 several months back in LRO Int., 
and some good shots of an ambulance version last month.

Charlie

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 14:52:31 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: lockers

> ...Just remove radiator and front panel, Pulley, and timing cover...
> -Rob Kerner

  There is another way.

  Remove the pulley.

  Grind off the rivets heads that hold the pressed steel flange in the timing
cover, you can pop the old seal out the front. Drive the rivet tails out.
Don't let them fall inside. Rags, magnet.

  Tap the rivet holes 8-32. Use a good, new, high quality tap as you are
tapping 100% threads (the hole size is slightly small.) Stuff greasy
rags around inside to catch the chips.

  Install new seal from the outside, with a little of your favorite gasket
goo. Leave it sticking out a little (~.030")

 Replace flange with 8-32 screws, pushing the seal in that last ~.030".

 No sweat. A lot easier that taking off the whole front end.

 Next time I rebuild an engine I will do this mod to the timing cover before
I put it on the engine!

Regards, Bill G.

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 15:47:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Morgan Hannaford <morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: New list for pigs..... 

Please start your own e-mail lists if you all wish to continue
with this banal diatribe.

I understand there is an address that may serve the discussion
well:  white_trash@pig.com  

And finally, ".edu" stands for educational institution- for those
on the lro list that couldn't figure that one out...........

I always assumed that Land Rover ownership indicated a degree of
sophistication; I guess I was wrong.

Ciao piscao,

Morgan "Berkeley.edu" 
'69 88"

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From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Autocar
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 11:58:00 EST

I am looking for a fax number to contact the publishers of Autocar magazine 
in the UK. Can anyone help?

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From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Tires
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:26:27 +1030 (CST)

Robert asks: re 16" rims

> I was wondering if I could run 235/85R16.  This would give me a little more
height right?

Depends a bit on the Brand of 235/85/16's, they do vary a lot,  BFG M-T's will
raise the height a bit.

Basically if you have 16" x 5.5" (ex 109) or wider rims the 235/85's should
be OK, (well they are on mine)  Turning circle gets a little bigger as the
lock stops needed to be adjusted on mine (this may be due to the pre '68 rims
on my '82 :-( ) 

A friend used to run even larger BFG M-T's on 5.5's but I think that might be
pushing your luck.

Cheers
-- 

  Daryl  Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

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Subject: Re: Social correctness... 
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 16:20:19 -0800
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

Dix,

	It's a sytem screw up, I sent that message once and it seemed
to dissappear for two days then, presto, it pops out 6 or 7 times. I think
Jory has gotten the message, I wasn't trying to rub noses in.
							Rgds
							Mike

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From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re:sophistication?
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:59:39 +1030 (CST)

Morgan writes:
> I always assumed that Land Rover ownership indicated a degree of
> sophistication; I guess I was wrong.

Damn thats where I went wrong.  I thought they were saying it indicated 
"so pissed on occassion".  Thanks for clearing that up :-)
-- 

  Daryl

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Subject: Re: New list for pigs..... 
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 17:02:57 -0800
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

Morgan,
	In the first place, I have suddenly and spontaniously aquired a new
email address, this @sybase.com. I have NO IDEA where it came from as my 
account is at @ichips.intel.com, Anyway, that message only went out ONCE, and disappeared,
two days later this sybase.com address starts bouncing the post out to the list 7-8 times.
I have NO clue as to where this @sybase.com is located or how it came into being.
I certainly only sent it once from my normal account. So, sorry about the multiple
posting thing but it wasn't my fault.
	Now, as to the rest of your little post about our lack of sophistication, how in
hell does going to a school like Berkeley qualify you as sophisticated?! Besides, what does
this have to do with Land Rovers and; Land Rovers are certainly UNsophisticated vehicles, ergo
I guess that makes me an UNsophisticated owner of an UNsophisticated vehicle, which is wonderful!
								RGDS
								Mike Fredette

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 17:21:15 -0800
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: two lists better than /Introduction to Offroad?

abalser@salrm.alaska.edu (Andrew Balser) wrote:
>>..<snip>.. Being the
>>lazy bastard I am, I thought I might suggest splitting the list

jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell), s/he replied:
>>I was wondering is there was any interest in splitting up the mailing list
>>groups... it's just that the lro@ volume is high ..<snip>..
>>divergent issues and (to a lesser degree) cultures.

William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> had this to say:
>>>Well, if you did that then it would more or less be an attitude thing.
>>>..<snip>..  But you should feel free to create the ..<snip>.. list.
>>>All I ask is that you just go off and do it without cluttering up this
>>>list with more noise.

jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) contines:
>That said, I would still be in favor of at least discussing such a topical
>division.

  Well Jory, the topics that contribute to the high "lro@ volume" are not
  distinctions between Series/RR/Disco vehicles.  Topics are usually well
  defined in the "Subject" headings and uninteresting articles are easily
  bypassed by astute netters.

  However, unnecessary high volume is created by the recent example of an
  off-color humor(less) contribution and all the ensuing sexist angst and
  jibberish.   These off-topic exchanges are well suited to private email
  or, as you lobbied, another mailing list.  Please do as Mr. Bill earlier
  suggested, "go off and do it", and I hope the others join you.

  As for everybody else (paraphrasing Jay Leno), Just SHHUUUTTT UUUPP!
  unless it's about Land Rovers and 4x4's!

  Michael Carradine    Carradine Studios                   Tel.500-442-6500
  Architect            Architecture Development Planning   Pgr.510-945-5000
  NCARB RIBA           PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA           cs@crl.com

  ftp://ftp.crl.com/ftp/users/cs/cs/unimog.html

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From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Re: Forward Control
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 12:24:28 EST

> On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, Dixon Kenner wrote:
> > On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, RUPERT.OJ.HINE wrote:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
> and some good shots of an ambulance version last month.
> Charlie

Hi all,
        From memory, there was the Series IIA 109" forward control, (I 
actually know someone with one!!!!) which used just about standard 
everything, then there was the IIB forward control, this used ENV diffs 
and a different gear lever and linkage among other things.  As for 
motors, they were available with the four cylinder and six cylinder 
motors, although the 2.25 diesel was only available in England and was 
described as dangerously under powered!!!!!

--
==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                    |       1955 Series 1 86"
LROC of Victoria Australia                      |       2.25 diesel 
LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia            |       My car is constipated,
email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                   |       It has not passed a 
                                                |       thing all day!!

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From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: D-90 starting to fall apart.
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 17:57:19 PST

It seems that after 18K miles things are begining to fall off the D-90
first I have lost three gas caps.....
second, the passenger seat has broke a spot weld in one of the mount points.
third, after making a trip to the car wash, I proceeded to wash off about
1/4 of the paint on the rear cross-member
fourth, the hood latch quit working
fifth, the drive train clanks

Minor  nits on a great truck.
Now for the tough issue, is it P.C for my wife to ride in the D-90?

Russ

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 21:17:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: American Angst

Hank Lapa discusses the inner workings of the American Mindset and then
asks....

>         OK, here's  a Land-Rover question after all:  How can you a real 
>      Land-Rover driver from a VW microbus driver?  (Many of you have 
>      already answered.)  
none

Duhhhhh.... Gee, Hank... Haven't a clue... (I own a VW Microbus... well,
almost a microbus.. it's a '71.)

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
                         1971 VW Westfalia......(The Bus)
 

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 21:18:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: TLCs

Gerry asks...
 
> I was asked, by a member of the WASHED heathen hoards, to see if anyone
> here 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> or wall furnaces but he persisted, implying that someone else might
> like TLCs as much as we like LRs.  Ha!...but here goes anyway....

Try TAYLORS@hubcap.clemson.edu

I hear that that's the place for all the poop....    :)

Cheers
Mike

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From: sgross@enet.net
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 19:18:24 PST
Subject: Introduction

Hello-

I live in Scottsdale, AZ and have a Range Rover and a Defender 90.  The wife drives the Range Rover
and I prefer the '90.  

I have worked under contract with GTS (Land Rover NA vehicle test center) here in Phoenix in the past
and am familiar with the vehicles.  This Friday the 17th, Scottsdale Land Rover is formally introducing the
new Range Rover to the public.

Happy 4x4ing!

-steve

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Date: 15 Mar 95 21:25:59 EST
From: "WILLIAM  L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: Junk mail

Here is one Englishman ( a native of Yorkshire, I lived 20 miles from Barnsley
for 45 years and through the Yorkshire Rover Owners club I know a lot of
Barnsley residents,) who did not find  Pieres article humorous or entertaining,
nor is his literary style typical of the area of which he writes so poorly.  I
have family that live in the region and I know that they would  be offended to
be associated with this type of material and the consideraation that it was
typical of the area.  
 Whilst respecting his right to express himself I do feel that his fantasies
would be more suited to the Penthouse forum than the digest, it is not the
subject matter that I subscribed to the digest to read. When I want titilation I
will buy a Playboy magazine.
   Is it necessary to send the same message 4 or 5 times to make your point, it
only reinforces the fact that it was so poorly made. 
  I am grateful to Piere for a couple of things, I now know of a motoring
magazine to which I will not subscribe and an off road company who I will not
patronise.
   

   Bill Leacock   Limey in exile.

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From: RovingNut@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 21:41:38 -0500
Subject: Politics, Bradies, & Winches

It has come to my attention that some of you are talking about LAND ROVERS on
this bulletin board! This MUST stop immediately, for those of you a little
behind the times, this has now become a bulletin board solely for the purpose
of political discourse, particularly womyn's issues. Seriously, though, I
don't hate women, or anyone else, I just REALLY LOVE LAND ROVERS. Might we
take David McKain's advice and get back to discussing those little miracles
from Solihull????

On to other things:

Brad Krohn writes:
>Yes, in the alleged climax of "The Brady Bunch Movie," a Rover can be seen
briefly on the right side of the screen as the semi >with Ann B. Davis at the
wheel crests a rise in the street.
     
> So brief it's tough to tell anything - but might've been a 109.

I saw it too, I'm pretty sure it's one of the 500 U.S. Defender 110's. I
never once thought the worlds of Brady Bunch and Rovers would ever merge-
Live and learn!!

Also, is there anyone out there with a secondhand winch who would be willing
to sell it? Electric, Capstan, Hand Crank (just kidding). Either are O.K.
Feel free to e-mail me: RovingNut@aol.com
                                     - Brad "Don't Call Me Pondscum" Davis

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 18:44:41 -0800
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: 3 Canadian Rovers 4 Sale

>On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 wrote:
>> Someone requested a repost of the three Rovers for sale here in Toronto, 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>	faults on Tuesday.  I'm going to be in Toronto Monday & have
>	arranged to go up and see them... 

  Just got through talking with the owner.  He had a mechanic out to try
  and get them started after having the Rovers sitting outdoors for three
  years.  The mechanic reported that the engines had seized, and that he
  had poured diesel fuel into the cylinders.  The hope is, that in a few
  weeks, there might be some movement; even then, they will require major
  engine work.  

>       Framewise, the SW is in
>	bad shape in the centre.  The description sound like if you
>	take the roof off to get at the frame, its breaking in two.  

  To move the vehicles, and to get them out of the mud, they were picked
  up with a forklift and jacked up front and rear.  As a consequence both
  109 frames are sagging in the middle.

  Michael Carradine    Carradine Studios                   Tel.500-442-6500
  Architect            Architecture Development Planning   Pgr.510-945-5000
  NCARB RIBA           PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA           cs@crl.com

  ftp://ftp.crl.com/ftp/users/cs/cs/unimog.html

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From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 22:12:11 -0500
Subject: Re: two lists better than one?

I own a IIa and a RR.  Two lists would complicate my life.

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From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 22:39:26 -0500
Subject: Re: 110s

That was my posting for the 110's..........I'm in Monroe NC,  quite a
distance.     I passed one up locally that was priced at $41,900.   Had 29000
miles.   Drove it for a full day.   Made a low offer.  Not accepted.  When I
went back,  it was gone.   Had no idea they were selling for that much more
than they did brand new.   I do appreciate your input.
Cordially:  Rick Crider  <rickcrider@aol.com>

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From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 22:39:29 -0500
Subject: Re: No Subject

In reference to gaiters (gaitors?)
I got mine from Atlantic British.....In U.S., call 1-518-664-6169,   or fax
1-518-664-6641.   There's also an 800 # but I don't have it handy.   Ask for
Brad Ferri,  in sales.   He's extremely knowlegeable,  knows many parts #'s
by memory.   Tell him Rick Crider sent you.  Maybe he'll give me a free decal
or something.
Cordially:  Rick Crider  <rick crider@aol.com>

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From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 22:39:37 -0500
Subject: Re: New list for pigs..... 

Whut is Berkely...is zat a scool or sumthing?
Just kidding folks....no flames please.    Rick Crider

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From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 22:39:32 -0500
Subject: Re: two lists better than one?

Andrew,  in reference to two lists:
I would be interested in a Series list only.    The mail that piles up daily
is almost more than I can digest.   I've yet to figure out what and how to
save it, either on the hard disc or diskette.    This is the first list that
I've subscribed to,  had no idea of the volume of mail that I was opening
myself up to.    I have thoroughly enjoyed it though.
Rick Crider  <rickcrider@aol.com)

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 22:57:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Forward Control

On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, Charlie Wright wrote:

> I think you're right about the 101 itself, but wasn't there a 109 foward 
	
	Yes, the IIB is a good start with seeing what they looked like...
	You mentioned seeing 101's in LRO, there are generally a photo
	or two in the ads in the back with the 109FC

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From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 22:10:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: two lists

I think two lists would be great, seeing as I missed a day of reding mail and
had 128 messages to read.  I love Land Rovers, but this is too much.
I would be in favor, and the rtraffic seems to support this, of these lists:

1) Series Land Rovers
2)  Rangies, Defenders, and Discos.

This split is based both on the hardware and the fact that many, if not the
vast majority, of recent Rover buyers are not interested in the older models
Of course, there will be overlap, but you can't please everybody oxx  all the
time.  People who own Series LRs probably want to hear about modifying my
Disco about as much as I want to hear about the relative merits axx of plastic
versus steel radiator grills for frying food :-)

This isnt' to poo-poo anything other people want to talk about, but I think
the volume _is_getting out of hand.

Henry Wilson
'94 Disco 5-spd

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From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Re: Forward Control
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 15:14:29 EST

> On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, Charlie Wright wrote:
none
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>       You mentioned seeing 101's in LRO, there are generally a photo
>       or two in the ads in the back with the 109FC

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

        The IIB had a 110" wheel base, the IIA had a 109" wheel base.

--
==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                    |       1955 Series 1 86"
LROC of Victoria Australia                      |       2.25 diesel 
LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia            |       My car is constipated,
email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                   |       It has not passed a 
                                                |       thing all day!!

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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 22:20:12 -0800
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: 109s vs 88s

Chris, in regard to your question:

>Any comments on the positive qualities of each of these vehicles? I am
>looking into purchasing a 109, and I currently have an 88. Which one is the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>appreciate any comments the net has. Thanks
>Chris Whitehead 1966 SeiesIIA 88" Petrol "AntiChrist"

I've had both 109s and 88s and have listened to what many others have had to 
say on the subject.  It seems to me that everyone needs  at least one of 
each.  The 88 is better off-road in most situations.  Despite its typically 
having smaller diameter tyres (although it doesn't have to), the 88 has a 
better breakover angle and a better departure angle.  It is considerable 
more maneuverable.  But the 109 rides better and is more directionally 
stable, thanks to its longer wheelbase.  The 109 hauls a lot more people and 
stuff.  The 109 is the preferred expedtion vehicle because it will carry 
what you need.  But you'll want to be sure that you really need the extra 
hauling capacity because you'll be hauling around a lot of extra weight all 
the time, even when empty, and that adds up to needing more power.  The only 
109 I ever really drove any amount had a 6-cylinder Chevy engine in it (only 
a 235cid one) and therefore had plenty of power and torque.  I briefly drove 
a stock 4-cylinder 109 and thought it was pretty pathetic.  Now I wouldn't 
turn up my nose at one with a Jag engine in it.

And there are times that my 88" is too big and I wish I were driving my 80" 
Series I.  That's kinda hard to do right now, as it has no running gear.  
And there were times, when I had a 109, that it wasn't big enough...

Granville Pool Redwood Valley, California, USA
<mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net> or <Granville_Pool@RedwoodFN.Org>
(707)485-7220 Home, (707)463-4265 Work, FAX to (707)463-5474
'52,'60,'61,'73, and '74 SWB Land-Rovers and Austin Champ 4x4

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  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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