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Subject: SPECIAL NOTE: mail to lro@team.net should be working again...
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 95 06:44:40 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

    Bill...
    

	lro@team.net is working again -- to my surprise it was fixed
					saturday
    
> Basically, the AAAReadme files on majordomo state to retrieve the files using
>    getfile list_name file_name
>   but then majordomo sends you a message saying "getfile" is not a valid
>   command. However,
	get list_name file_name
> works fine. 

	ooops! my being brain dead - I've updated all the references to be 
	'get' as they should be 

	Sorry for the mis-information folks !
    
>   RE uuencoded pictures.. I have access to a scanner and some interesting
>   photos from ABP, RN and ROAV events. Would it be possible to upload any?

	I don't have that much space available, and mail isn't the best 
	way to get photos out - you might want to contact the men running
	[ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu or lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au]
	the WWW servers, as that would be a better place for photos:
	
      
    Cheers,
	--bill	caloccia@Team.Net	caloccia@Stratus.Com

      1  3     dl OD  L           "Land Rover's first, becuase
      |--|--+  o  |   |            Land Rovers last."
      2  4  R     N   H           '72 Range Rover

	For some of my rover photos check out:
		http://www.missouri.edu/RoverWeb/wc0295/pict0295.html

------------------------------

From: Carl Byrne <SPECBB@CARDIFF.AC.UK>
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 17:03:26 GMT
Subject: Discovery -Diesel

I ask again: Does anybody out there own a 95 spec Diesel 
Discovery? I have a few queries with mine that a fellow owner might 
be able to answer/confirm.

Thanks in advance.

Carl

1949 80"
1995 Discovery - 300 TDI Diesel
Dr. Carl Byrne
University of Wales College of Cardiff,
Wales.
UK.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 10:48:59 -0800
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Overdrive prices; hubs

Mark,

Regarding overdrive prices:  Check British Pacific's price; seems to be the 
best in the colonies.  Then, when you're in England, compare (including 
freight, duty, customs, etc.) and see if there's enough difference (if any) 
to justify the hassle of buying from England. Then let us know, please.  
This is a question that I'm sure many have pondered.

You have your assignment, now get to work ;^9

By the way, did you get my message, the other day, about the Series III dash 
top?

Thanks, Granville

P.S.

Oh, about hubs:  After I wrote the above, I saw your question about hubs and 
DJP's reply.  I disagree about not putting them on the rear.  Just want to 
make sure that you have "bulletproof" ones that won't break on you, that you 
use modern ones that mount with the stock (short) drive plate bolts, and 
that you keep them tight.  I had them on the rear of mine for quite a while 
(for towing it) but had the old-style Warns that mount with long bolts.  
Could not keep them tight (so they kept leaking and I gave up and took them 
off).  If you do fit rear hubs (or for that matter, front ones) carry a 
stock drive plate or two (and necessary fixings) with you, in case of hub 
failure.

I am also puzzled by DJP's other comments.  I've never seen a Warn hub that 
was spring-loaded or a Selectro that wasn't.  The only other spring-loaded 
ones I've ever seen were the Faireys.  The ones he describes as Selectos 
sound like Dual-Matics (really nasty hubs).  Unfortunately, neither the 
Faireys nor the Selectros (in that style) are still available for the 
Land-Rover.  Oddly, the company that made the Selectros (Mile Marker) still 
makes that style (called the "Classic" I think) but not for the Land-Rover 
and still makes hubs for the Land-Rover but not that style.  Go figure.  And 
when Fairey was bought out by Superwinch, it seems that the first order of 
business was to quit making those lovely hubs (I know, some people had bad 
luck with them but I like them and think they are about the handsomest of 
all hubs).

Now, having said all that, my feeling about using hubs on a Land-Rover is 
that unless you are going to tow or drive your Land-Rover really long 
distances on the highway, don't use hubs.  I have had them on most of my 
Land-Rovers but usually leave them engaged.  Nothing new here, seems to be 
the prevailing sentiment on this list.

For the person looking for face-plates for old-style Warns:  I believe I 
still have an extra set or almost a set (apart, the needles gone) of those 
old-style Warns.  I am willing to part with them or with parts of them.  If 
interested, let me know and we can figure out what you want and what's a 
fair price.

Later,
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ]
[ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ]

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: RN winternewsletter
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 18:07:35 EST

As mentioned yesterday.....and as I saw for myself.....
there they are!  The Hess family, on the day of their maiden
voyage, all decked out in California clothing (esp. "the kid"),
and each in characteristic pose (positively!).  Fun reading.
And more to come...

Also a good article on the Doormobile itself.

New goodies??  Not a whole lot, but for you Disco-boyze there
is an add for a bumper attachment that apparently can hold
an 8000lb warn winch.  Bolts right on.

And.....yet another description of the fun and frolic had at
this past fall's Mid Atlantic ROAV event.....the one Dixon,
Nigel, and I wussed out on.  Next time.

A shot of Sandy Grice is in there....I had him pegged for an
older fart but not so...

(This stuff is all in the new RN winter newsletter, BTW)

cheers all,
rd/nige

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Mar 1995 09:58:32 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Range Rover Caveats

By popular demand, I posted Stefan's excellent treatise on buying used
Range Rovers last Friday.  Unfortunately, my Internet gateway was not
available then, and it got bounced.  Posted again this Monday, it
disappeared down a black hole in the ether.  Third time's the charm, eh?

Date: 04 Jan 95 10:03:49 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@cle constant
velocity bearings via propshaft joints to the gearbox itself, automatics
being more susceptible than manuals. Diffs are rarely affected.

There are three main reasons for such damages that can be found even in
relatively new vehicles:
Main cause is the wrong use (or abuse) of the central diff-lock. Range
Rover owners, who are rarely off-roaders (would you believe), are notorious
for hastely slamming into diff-lock as soon as it starts raining and the
road gets a *bit* slippery, at freeway speeds, and they'll drive like this
for hours. This habit obviously wreaks havoc on the drivetrain. Even
off-road, unwise use of the diff-lock can be fatal. Given the brute power
of the V8, if in 1st or 2nd low with a wide throttle opening and the diff
locked, just one of the wheels is blocked for even for a second, the damage
to the drivetrain is immediate.

The next two causes are oil-related: RR-gearboxes, unlike those of the
'Series', *don't leak* and are sealed tight (incredible but true),
_however_ they have and need two vents, one for the main box, the other for
the transfer case. These are two thin plastic hoses that run from the top
of the casings up front into the engine bay where they are suspended rather
close to the exaust manifold. If by accident or negligence these vent hoses
are torn out of their suspensions they will drop onto the manifold, melt
and close up, the pressure in the gearboxes rises, and - pow! - out come
the seals :-0 , leading to oil loss. Rapid oil loss also occurs when the
hand brake is adjusted too tight (a fault frequently perpetrated by
garages), the RR is run with partially engaged hand brake (which you most
likely won't notice with the power of the V8) and the hand brake drum
becomes red hot to the extent that it melts down the rear transfer case
seal. Since Range Rover owners, unlike the Series-folks, *never* crawl
under their car regularly to check out the state of their 90-weight, such
oil loss usually goes unnoticed, the vehicle is driven over extended
periods with little or no oilin the gear box, and again the result is a
severely damaged drivetrain.

So, when you test drive a Rangie, close all windows, turn off radio,
ventilation and air conditioning, and *listen*. In high ratio with
disengaged diff-lock, the Range Rover gearbox should be absolutely silent.
Any whining, rumbling or grinding is a warning sign. Next test, come to a
stop, turn the steering to full lock, and drive off accelerating sharply.
Does the car pull away smoothly, or do the front wheels behave irregularly
like jumping or wobbling or making the steering wheel jerk? If so, there's
something wound up in the front part of the drivetrain. Finally - this
involves getting a bit dirty - get underneath, open the oil filler plugs of
both main gearbox and transfer case and stick your finger in, feeling down
into the casing.  Your finger should come out all wet and shiny from clear
red or amber -colored oil. If it comes out black and sticky - thanks, but
no thanks.

Also, don't forget to check the state of the brake pads; more likely than
not they'll be completely down. Electronics: Usually no problem.

Wish you luck...

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: Kelly Minnick <minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: Overdrives
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:36:10 PST

RE: Overdrive

Why would you need an overdrive in a D90?  They already have a "5 spd" which
has overdrive built in (I believe .77:1).  Maybe I just don't understand.
I'd love to have the LT77 or the new R380 (?) in my SIII.  Please explain.

Kelly Minnick  '73  88" Safari
Ridgecrest, CA

------------------------------

From: Kelly Minnick <minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: RN
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 13:55:37 PST

RE: Rovers North
Is Rovers North phone (802) 879-0032?
Kelly Minnick

------------------------------

From: Kelly Minnick <minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: Misc.
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:25:17 PST

RE: Misc
I just have a couple of things to say; some questions and some comments:

1.  I did in fact finally get my order out of the hands of Fed Ex.  I would
not call them "Express"!  The window "sealant" they sent me for my fixed
windows is this "Dum Dum" stuff.  This is not sticky and has the consistency
of my kids "Play-Dough".  How does this stuff hold my windows in place or keep
water out?  I can't find the Butyl rubber here in flat form.  One window place
said I need to be using Latex rubber from a calk gun.  Guess I will check it
out...  As far as the order went, Craddock raised their prices 3 to 5% from the
price quote they gave me.  In fact, the Firewall pad was quoted at 54 pounds
and was sent at 116 pounds.  Ouch!  Still working on this one!!!

2.  I have been at 45 DEGREES in my '64 SWB. (not on purpose)  We were all
coming back from a fun trip out 4-wheeling and I was the last one to cross
this stream in the bottom of a gulley.  Earlier we had built up an area so
we could cross the stream since it had undercut the bank and could not be
crossed without our "bridge". The three vehicles ahead of me had pretty much
torn out the bridge.  Having bald street "firestone" tires on the rear did not
help either.  As I crossed the stream and tried to manouver (sp) up the
opposite bank, my rear end started to slide which pulled the whole right side
of the vehicle into the undercut bank.  There I was at an "Impossible" angle.
Everyone was frightened/shocked and ran to my rescue.  We hooked a tow strap
over the top of the roof and attached it to some rocks to keep the vehicle
from going over (since when I tried to get out of the vehicle, the left wheels
started to lift!).  I had to crawl under the vehicle and pull out some large
boulders we had used to make our bridge.  The right front axle was "high
centered" and therefore would not allow me to back up.  Did I mention that the
engine was still running through all of this and oil gauge showed normal
pressure?  We did some measurements before I dug/backed out and came up with
about 43 degrees!  This is not recommended since I have very uneasy feelings
of falling on my side anyhow in my LR.  In my R Rover, the axles do all kinds
of wierd articulations and the driver has no idea how strange the terrain
is.  I got all crossed up in that, went to get out and actually fell out!
Anyhow enough on this, sorry...

3.  Putting the window "locks" back in my SIII.  Where do we get those very
long 1/8" diameter closed end rivets?  Or do people just use screws?

Kelly Minnick  '73 88" Safari
Ridgecrest, CA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 10:22:05 EST
From: dmorris@med.unc.edu (Tony Morris)
Subject: landrovers, Namibia

A friend is going to Windhoek, Namibia and wants to rent a Landrover. Any 
suggestions?
Thanks Tony Morris

------------------------------

From: "Seymour, Gareth - Technician" <GSeymour@mp.sihe.ac.uk>
Subject: movies
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 95 15:28:00 PST

On the subject of Landies in movies, I don't recall anyone mentioning the 
film "wedlock" with old Rutger Haur (should there be an "e" in that 
somewhere ?), He is a prisoner at a work camp where they all wear collars 
that explode when anyone tries to escape (activated by the guards). He and 
an attractive female decide to make a break for it, they jam the signal and 
make their escape in a Landie. The guards are straight after them and it all 
leads to a decent offroad chase. Better not tell you what happens tho'.

I think I'll finish by proposing a toast to those who can drive their Landie 
in a straight line !!!!

Gareth

1956 ser1 86"
1974 R.R. (shortened)
1976 ser III. h/top 88"

------------------------------

From: "Seymour, Gareth - Technician" <GSeymour@mp.sihe.ac.uk>
Subject: diff lock info
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 95 15:15:00 PST

Hello out there,

Just a quick question to you yanks, anyone heard of a diff lock for the L.R. 
called something like "LOKRITE". Any details like price and some supplier 
who will ship to the UK. Also a price for ARB airlockers would be of 
interest. Anyone visiting south Wales can give me a shout for some mighty 
fine offroading.

All replies to...

g.seymour@sihe.ac.uk

snail mail to...

2 Cae Mansel Lane,
Gowerton,
Swansea.

SA4  3HW

------------------------------

From: "howard quigley" <HOWARD@procom.com>
Date:          Thu, 9 Mar 1995 08:55:52 PST
Subject:       HELP! I Need Range Rover Parts

HELP!

On my last wheeling adventure a rock ate some parts on my 1992 Range 
Rover.  What I am looking for is a used or rebuilt (ie inexpensive) power 
steering gear box, front valance, and the lights that are installed 
in the valance ( the driving lights ).  If you have these parts and 
want to sell them (or you know where I might find them) please
contact me at < howard@procom.com>.  Please include how much $$$$$$ 
you want, which parts you have, and how best to contact you.

Thanks,
Howard
howard@procom.com
Howard Quigley
Procom Technology
2181 Dupont Dr.
Irvine, CA  92715
800-800-8600  X298

------------------------------

From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 03:55:51 -0500
Subject: Help!!!!!!!!!!

Are my postings making it to this group?    I can't get my subscription
accepted at the land rover list.   I don't know if these postings are making
it either.   Would someone out there email me at  <rickcrider@aol.com>  and
let me know.   Thanks.  Rick Crider  Monroe  NC

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 09:15:01 -0800
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: What to do make instead...

In Bill Leacock's message (maybe copied from Roger Sinasohn's) the following 
question is asked:

>? if the french should make love instead of cars 1) how do I become a frenchman
>? and 2) what should Yanks and Limeys amke instead of cars?

Limeys should make small talk and Yanks should make haste.  The French 
should actually cook and leave the love-making to the Italians.  Lest you've 
all forgotten:

Heaven is where:

     The chefs are all French
     The cops are all British
     The Mechanics are all German
     The lovers are all Italian
     And it's all run by the Swiss

Hell is where:

     The chefs are all British
     The cops are all German
     The mechanics are all French
     The lovers are all Swiss
     And it's all run by the Italians.

Oooo, I better duck...

Granny

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Mar 1995 13:32:02 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Used RR caveats

OK...you asked for it...here's Stefan's treatise on buying a used Rangie:
(BTW, I posted this out Friday, but the internet gateway wasn't available
then, so it got bounced back.)

Date: 04 Jan 95 10:03:49 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Used Range Rover caveats?

I gather you'll be buying your car in Texas, so I guess I can skip the part
about where to look for rust and corrosion.

One of our club members who makes a living with a non-licenced LR parts
mail order business [don't let Solihull hear this! - Ed.] and also does
some occasional used car dealings has these observations to make about used
Range Rovers:

The most frequent and costly damage in such vehicles are - sometimes
substantial - damages in the drive train that can extend all the way from
the front half-axle constant velocity bearings via propshaft joints to
the gearbox itself, automatics being more susceptible than manuals.
Diffs are rarely affected. There are three main reasons for such damages
that can be found even in relatively new vehicles:
Main cause is the wrong use (or abuse) of the central diff-lock. Range
Rover owners, who are rarely off-roaders (would you believe), are notorious
for hastely slamming into diff-lock as soon as it starts raining and the
road gets a *bit* slippery, at freeway speeds, and they'll drive like this
for hours. This habit obviously wreaks havoc on the drivetrain. Even
off-road, unwise use of the diff-lock can be fatal. Given the brute power
of the V8, if in 1st or 2nd low with a wide throttle opening and the diff
locked, just one of the wheels is blocked for even for a second, the damage
to the drivetrain is immediate.

The next two causes are oil-related: RR-gearboxes, unlike those of the
'Series', *don't leak* and are sealed tight (incredible but true),
_however_they have and need two vents, one for the main box, the other for
the transfer case. These are two thin plastic hoses that run from the top
of the casings up front into the engine bay where they are suspended rather
close to the exaust manifold. If by accident or negligence these vent hoses
are torn out of their suspensions they will drop onto the manifold, melt
and close up, the pressure in the gearboxes rises, and - pow! - out come
the seals :-o ,leading to oil loss.

Rapid oil loss also occurs when the hand brake is adjusted too tight (a
fault frequently perpetrated by garages), the RR is run with partially
engaged hand brake (which you most likely won't notice with the power of
the V8) and the hand brake drum becomes red hot to the extent that it melts
down the rear transfer case seal. Since Range Rover owners, unlike the
Series-folks, *never* crawl under their car regularly to check out the
state of their 90-weight, such oil loss usually goes unnoticed, the vehicle
is driven over extended periods with little or no oil in the gear box, and
again the result is a severely damaged drivetrain.

So, when you test drive a Range, close all windows, turn off radio,
ventilation and air conditioning, and *listen*. In high ratio with
disengaged diff-lock, the Range Rover gearbox should be absolutely silent.
Any whining, rumbling or grinding is a warning sign. Next test, come to a
stop, turn the steering to full lock, and drive off accelerating sharply.
Does the car pull away smoothly, or do the front wheels behave irregularly
like jumping or wobbling or making the steering wheel jerk? If so, there's
something wound up in the front part of the drivetrain. Finally - this
involves getting a bit dirty - get underneath, open the oil filler plugs of
both main gearbox and transfer case and stick your finger in, feeling down
into the casing.  Your finger should come out all wet and shiny from clear
red or amber colored oil. If it comes out black and sticky - thanks, but no
thanks.

Also, don't forget to check the state of the brake pads; more likely than
not they'll be completely down. Electronics: Usually no problem.

Wish you luck...

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 08:28:03 -1000 (HST)
From: Pat Guerin <pat@pixi.com>
Subject: Hard Top, Defender 90 (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 12:46:55 -1000 (HST)
From: Pat Guerin <pat@pixi.com>
Subject: Hard Top, Defender 90

Aloha from Hawaii!  I've enjoyed this mailing list since I've signed up.  
I own a 94' Defender 90 and just got some information regarding the Hard 
Top.

	Cost:	  ~$2000.
	Install:    ~600.

The only problem is the Hard Top will add approximately 3 inches in 
height.  That means if you get the HT you will no longer be able to park 
the car in any standard garage.  Oh well hope somebody was able to use 
this information.

			Aloha, Pat@pixi.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 95 12:35:15 EST
From: "Lapa, Hank" <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com>
Subject: Re[4]: 	Disco pricing

     Jim,
     
     The story from the local dealer is that the 10-day grace period is 
     simply to *confirm* (to LRNA?) that a order was indeed placed before 
     01 March by providing copies of receipts, etc., presumably so that 
     LRNA would allow the dealer to not take a hit on the $600.  I guess 
     that means if you ordered at the old MSRP, and your Disco doesn't come 
     in by the 10th, either you or your dealer is out the 600 unless the 
     confirmation exercise was complied with.  
     
     I guess it promotes Exclusivity of the Marque -- well according to one 
     recent posting, my Series car is more exclusive in the US than a 
     Rolls-Royce, and I take comfort accordingly.  (This is not a flame, 
     spam, grenade, or insult to RR, Disco, or Def folks.)  This just means 
     I'll order the Disco a couple months later and pay a bit more.  No use 
     crying over spilled 90-weight.
     
     Hank

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 	Disco pricing
Author:  jpappa01@InterServ.Com at Zeus
Date:    3/6/95 8:02 PM

>From jpappa01@InterServ.Com
X-Envelope-From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com
    id AA03071; Mon, 6 Mar 95 20:02:02 PST
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 20:02:02 PST
From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com
Subject: Re: Re[2]:     Disco pricing 
X-Mailer: AIR Mail 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)
     
Hank:
     
Not sure on LRNA policy. I was only told that we would honor the old price 
matrix on any orders taken through the 10th. It would make SENSE that LRNA 
would support the entire dealer net the same way. I suppose it would also make 
sense that you could call your local dealer and simply ask them.
     
Please let me know your outcome. It would answer both of our questions. 
     
Hope that you have a successful outcome on your Discovery. *Talk* soon.
     
Jim *I wouldn't give up my IIA either!* Pappas
     

------------------------------

From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wrdmail.er.usgs.gov>
Subject: Re: Overdrive prices; hubs
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 08:38:07 -0800 (PST)

On or about March 9,1995, Granville Pool penned the immortal lines:
<Schnipp>
none

> Oh, about hubs:
  
<Schnipp schnipp>

> And 
> when Fairey was bought out by Superwinch, it seems that the first order of 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> luck with them but I like them and think they are about the handsomest of 
> all hubs).
FWIW, the 109 I acquired recently came with Superwinch hubs.  I think 
they came from British Pacific several years ago.  Might be worth 
checking on their availability if interested in ... handsomest of all hubs.

Walter Swain      1967 IIA 109 Safari SW, petrol
Davis, CA
 

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 1995 19:35:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: floormats for my 88

Someone said...

> I cut new mats for my 88 from truck mud flaps which I found on the road. I
........snip.....
> the gas pedal. Maybe for Christmas I'll get one of those nice one piece
> jobs from RN.

Nawww... Just look for one of those mud flaps that go completely across the
back of the vehicle...   :)

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 1995 23:46:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 109 for sale..

I was driving around today and found a 109 in my area that I had never seen
before.. Of course, I had to check it out. Turned out to be for sale. The
details are:

1963 109 Station Wagon - Diesel - About 80,000 miles on the odometer.
Fairey O/D, Warn F/W hubs. The truck is extremely clean underneath - the
frame is black and smooth. Body is very straight although the paint is
flaking off in a few places. The interior is very clean. The only things out
of place that I could see (on a quick inspection) are the exhaust system is
not correct (it exits out ahead of the rear wheel) and it's missing the
rearmost seats. 

The owner lives in Scotia, NY but the truck is at his mother's house in
Johnstown, NY. I spoke to the owner on the phone briefly. He has had the 109
for 4 or 5 years. It previously was in North Carolina and he has never driven
it in the winter.   (Judging from the condition of the frame, that sounds
right.)  Before he bought it, it had been repainted and the injector pump
was rebuilt. Since he has owned it he has replaced the rear diff (still has
the old one), rear axel half-shafts, fuel pump and generator. He says he has
a brand new set of glow-plugs still in the boxes. The truck is currently
licensed and insured and runs - by the looks of the soot on the snow by the
exhaust pipe it was started up within the last two or three days.

Asking price is $5,000. Call Dave Acker at (518) 377-9466

If someone wants more information, this truck is only 5 or 6 miles from my
house. Let me know and I'll be glad to check it out a bit more thoroughly.

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 1995 11:18:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Batesville, GA

> QUICK!  :)
> Anybody who hasn't left for this thing yet, what's gonna be going on
> there?
none

Taylor, I'm not going, but I can tell you without a doubt that there *will*
be Land Rovers there.. You can crawl under them and inside them and someone
will probably give you a ride in one. You can ask all kinds of questions,
you can actually *see* Land Rovers!

Shoot, if you hurry, they just *might* use your Blazer as a winch point!

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Thu, 9 Mar 1995 12:43:52 GMT -0600
Subject:       Delco man & U-joints

William Leacock,

I thought that was a might much on the hp draw. I just never bothered 
to check it out, which is unusual for me. My God! AM I becoming less 
of a skeptic as I age?

BobandSue

said they thought universal joints were $33.00 US.  Who's 
paying that for them? Go to your neighborhood NAPA and get them for a 
lot less. AND if you want to take a chance, I even ordered some from 
J.C. Whitney (about $6.00) in Chicago and got Spicer, which last I heard 
is a good make, they were OE I think on a L/R I used to have. But I'd 
recommend your local parts store.

Tom Rowe
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Center for Dairy Research
1605 Linden Dr., Madison, WI 53706
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578
Home:608-243-8660
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Thu, 9 Mar 1995 12:51:37 GMT -0600
Subject:       Free L/R parts

Don't get too excited. 

First, it's in Northern VA. What I have is a pretty much gutted '64 109.
No upper body, engine or tranny.  Basicaly what it has is engine 
compartment ancillary equipment, axle housings couple of jerry can 
brackets, I think, and pods to raise the marker lights to the top of 
the front wings when you have wing mounted jerry cans.

Anyway, it's free for the hauling away.  If you're interested e-mail 
me direct or call me at home on the weekend. No calls at work please,
not that I expect to be flodded with interesed calls.

Tom Rowe
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Center for Dairy Research
1605 Linden Dr., Madison, WI 53706
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578
Home:608-243-8660
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:28:12 -0800
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Defective Headgaskets?

Fellow Net-Rovers:

I am doing a valve job on my 1973 Series III 88" Land-Rover 2.25-liter 
petrol engine.  I got my parts from British Pacific.  Inasmuch as BP issued 
the "defective product warning" on the genuine parts head gasket, I assumed 
that Lawrence would supply the aftermarket gasket with the head kit.  This 
morning I checked to see and found that the very genuine head gasket about 
which he had warned us was, in fact, in my kit.

So I just called and spoke with Lawrence and asked, "What gives?"  He said 
that he had contacted Land-Rover and asked about this gasket and was told 
that there is "nothing wrong with it."  Presently, Lawrence is not 
counseling against using this gasket.  He is, however, trying to get a 
technical statement from Land-Rover as to WHY this change was made and why 
it's O.K. or, indeed, presumably, preferred (figuring that the British would 
NEVER make a change just for the hell of it).  So far, he has not received 
such documentation.

A friend of mine had just done his head when I heard of this warning.  He 
had gotten genuine parts from Rovers North and so assumes that he has fitted 
this same questionable genuine parts head gasket.  He has had no indication 
of overheating.  It occurs to me, however, that it does not necessarily 
follow that the coolant temperature would be higher.  The concern is not the 
over-all coolant temperature but the lack of cooling in key locations...

Has anyone else heard any more intelligence on this matter?

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ]
[ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 10:46:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: LUCAS wins contract...

	For your colelctive amusement, LUCAS has just won a billion pound
	contract to supply Volkswagen with fuel injection components and
	some other stuff.  There goes another marque into the Darkness <tm>

------------------------------

From: "John R. Benham" <BENHAM@WFOCLAN.USBM.GOV>
Date:          Tue, 7 Mar 1995 08:42:10 +1100
Subject:       MORE Nat. Geo. Rovers

Dear LRO's,

    And we have some more Rovers spotted in the National Geographic 
Mazgazine:

    1. February, 1987, p. 214: A very well equipped SIII at the base
       of Skogafoss Waterfalls, Iceland.  This one is suitable for
       framing as suggested by our own LRO Roger Sinasohn.  Thanks
       Roger!  Also in that same article on pages 196-197, there are
       at least three + Land Rovers seen in the aerial photo of the
       Icelandic sheep drive.
       
    2. April, 1993, p. 142: the `On Assignment' photo features a 110
       with snorkel, bull guard, and sun roof in 4 feet of crocodile
       infested Grumeti River of Tansanis.  The owner and Nat. Geo.
       photographer Mark Deeble is not looking pleased!
       
    3. July, 1959, p. 145:  After balooning and sailing across the
       Atlantic, our heros are welcomed the the streets of
       Bridgetown, Barbados with a hard top Landie following.  Thanks
       to Brent Rosengrant of Bonners Ferry, Idaho for pointing out
       this elusive Rover.
       
    But for my money, the May, 1992 issue of PLAYBOY magazine has a 
nicely appointed 88 canvas top displayed on pages 118 and 119.  
Perhaps many of the LRO's missed this one due to the upstaging of the 
fine cargo the Rover is carrying!  Definetely suitable for framing!

Enjoy,

John R. Benham
Spokane, WA USA
1968 SII 88 `Bwana Mobile'

------------------------------

From: "John R. Benham" <BENHAM@WFOCLAN.USBM.GOV>
Date:          Sun, 5 Mar 1995 12:19:07 +1100
Subject:       More Nat. Geo. Rovers

Dear LRO's,

    And we have some more Rovers spotted in the National Geographic 
Magazine:

    1. February, 1987, p. 214: A very well equipped SIII at the base
       of Skogafoss Waterfalls, Iceland.  This one is suitable for
       framing as suggested by our own LRO Roger Sinasohn.  Thanks
       Roger!  Also in that same article on pages 196-197, there
       are at least three + Land Rovers seen in the air photo of the
       Icelandic sheep drive.

    2. April, 1993, p. 142: the `On Assignment' photo features a 110
       with snorkel, bull guard, and sun roof in 4 feet of crocodile
       infested Grumeti River of Tanzania.  The owner and Nat. Geo.
       photographer Mark Deeble is not looking pleased!

    3. July, 1959, p. 145: After balooning and sailing across the
       Atlantic, our heros are welcomed in the streets of Bridgetown,
       Barbados with a hard top Land Rover following.  Thanks to
       Brent Rosengrant of Bonners Ferry, Idaho for pointing out this
       elusive Rover.

    But for my money, the May, 1992 issue of PLAYBOY magazine has a 
nicely appointed 88 canvas top displayed on pages 118 and 119.  
Perhaps many of the LRO's missed this one due to the upstaging of the 
fine cargo the Rover is carrying!  Definetely suitable for framing!!

Enjoy,

John R. Benham
Spokane, WA  USA
John R. Benham - Editor
N.3616 Dowdy Road                 `The Rover Runner'
Spokane, WA  99204  USA               ______
                                     |______\_____
1968 88 IIA Marine Blue      *---   [|_/-\____/-\_|}
  The `BWANA' Mobile           *---    (O)    (O)        

509.747.0692 (H); 509.353.2700 (W); E-Mail: benham@wfoclan.usbm.gov

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 16:03:26 -0500
Subject: Re: HELP! I Need Range Rover Parts

<What I am looking for is a used or rebuilt (ie inexpensive) power steering
gear box, front valance, and the lights that are installed in the valance (
the driving lights ).

I don't know about the steering box, bot the plastic air dam under the bumper
is a piece that was not meant to be on an off-road vehicle.  I bashed mine up
so many times, I just finally tore it off and threw it away.  I remounted the
lights just under the winch between the vertical bush-bar stanchions.  It
looks great and much more truck-ish.  Th4e lights are better protected as
well.

------------------------------

From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III)
Subject: Missed it by THAT much...
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 23:03:53 

Hi guys...

Well, I went to (or rather towards) the meet down in Batesville, Ga, and when 
I got there I found that I had missed them setting out by about an hour.  
Figures...  So I went off and goofed around in Hell-In Georgia for a little 
bit and got back to the General Store in time for the first of them to start 
showing up.  There were about 5,6 Discos, 3 Rangies (one of which was the new 
one) 5 Defender 90's and 1 III (in excelent condition as far as I could tell). 
The 15 or so other series landies decided to veer off before they got back to 
the starting point and head back home so I missed them completely.  But it 
wasn't a total loss.  I actually got to see a III (like the one I want but 
different color and slightly different seats) that looked really good.  I 
thought to myself...oh, so that's what they're supposed to look like.  :)  
Sadly, I took one look at it, asked someone if he had the original-type 4-cyl..
.he said yes and when I turned around, the guy was leaving so I didn't get to 
ask him anything hardly, nor did I get to sit in it or whatever.  AARRGGHH!!  
So close and yet so far.  :)  Oh well; there's always the next one...and the 
III I hope to get a really GOOD look at in Waynesville either this week or 
next when I actually see it OUTside..  :)  I got to see Chip East's IIa.  But 
it wasn't exactly on its best showing...a few hundred feet before he pulled up 
to my apartment, his alternator blew.  And again, I had about 5 minutes to 
talk with him...It would have been ten but my In-your-face landlord wouldn't 
get off the damn phone!

But anyway...I don't know how many (if any) people on the net here went to 
this first annual thing, but unfortunatly, I found that most of the drivers 
were not very personable.  The people that rode WITH them on the other hand 
were some very nice people.  I guess the drivers of the new 30k+ trucks didn't 
want to talk with the owner of a 10k- S-10 Blazer.  Of course, I may have been 
interpreting it entirely wrong...they may have had a shitty day for all I know.
But that's not too important.  What is good is that I finally saw a III close 
up and wanted it all the more.  I noticed that the position of the pedals in 
it and in the D-90's were very close (I point out that this III had some 
really nice seats that may have sat up more than the standard tush cush ones) 
and I know how the D-90 feels.  I could ride in it all day.  I WOULD if they 
didn't cost too much.  I know, I really can't compare the two as they are very 
different, but in some way they are kindred...rovers in the rough.  :)

Taylor

-- 
     One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
     One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
     In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. 
<->                  C. Taylor Sutherland, III               <->
<->      IRC Nick:  NIV       <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <->

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 13:29:06 -0800
From: jory@mit.edu (jory bell)
Subject: see my land rover (semi)live on the net

the followng web page:

http://evo.net/bridgecam.html

is connected to a camera we set overlooking a place where we park adjacent
to my building. my ser iii is resently in prime camera position. the image
is updated every 4 minutes (and looks blasck at night...)...

-jory

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Overdrives
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 8:03:24 PST

I really have not given much thoughas to if I need one, I was just
wondering if one would bolt on. According to my logic, why think about it
if you can't do it anyway.
The quick thought is that the od might improve MPG when crusing at
75 MPH. It also might come in handy when pulling a trailer. Hills 
always seem to fall inbetween gears when pulling a trailer.
                                 
Russ Burns
91 R-rover
94 D-90

> RE: Overdrive
> Why would you need an overdrive in a D90?  They already have a "5 spd" which
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> Kelly Minnick  '73  88" Safari
> Ridgecrest, CA

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: D-90 clanking
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 6:33:55 PST

While driving some of the unique roads in the Moab UT. area I noticed
a lot of play in the D-90 drive train. While rock climbing I would get
a load clanking sound from what seems to be the transfer case.
Also when decending a steep hill in low-low I would get a grinding
sound from the front drive train.
Has any one on the net had their D-90 off road, and experienced any
grinding, or clanking. I can imagine the fun I will have at the
porshe audi dealer trying to explain this problem.

The hardware store in moab also has those elusive canvas water bags.

Thanks
Russ burns
91 R-Rover
94 D-90

(This is a resend, as I don't believe my messages got out yesterday.)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 19:01:18 +0001 (GMT)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Oil pressure sender?

This should probably go to UK only, but I've already addressed it.

The infamous oil sender has packed up on my IIa (an annual tradition) diesel 
again, and I've once again begun a quest for a real pressure guage.  None 
of the basic aftermarket versions (for the XR3i/Golf GTI crowd) have an 
adpator that fits the odd sized take-off from the oil filter housing.

Anyone know a compatible sender/guage unit from say a Sherpa van or 
similar?  What fits?  Does anyone do a little brass adaptor?  I'm tired 
of buying the 'idiot light' version as a maintenance item.

Any ideas/comments welcome

Cheers,
Charlie

C. R. Wright                                    Dept. of Genetics
+44 (0)1223 333970 telephone                    Univ. of Cambridge
+44 (0)1223 333992 telefax                      Downing Street, Cambs.
cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk                        CB2 3EH, England

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: D-90 clanks, and groans.
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 7:10:46 PST

As I was wandering around some of the more unique roads around
Moab, I noticed that there was a lot of play in the D-90's drive train.
Any time I was doing some rock climbing, I would get a clanking sound
from the transfer case. I also would get a slight ratcheting sound from
the front drive assembly, when decending a steep slope in low-low .
 Has any other D-90 owners experienced thes problems?
I know when I take it to the porshe audi dealer, and tell them the problem
only occurs when climbing over large rocks, or when decending a 40 degree
slope they will look at my like I am from mars..

Watching "jeeps", and other various 4x4's in action it makes me realize
the bargin of a land-rover.

Also those elusive canvas water bags are available in the hardware store
in moab UT.	

Russ Burns
94 D-90
91 R-Rover

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 14:56:46 MST
From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL )
Subject: Off for School

I will be gone for two weeks for an army leadership school.
But will be back end of March.  When I get back I hope to be
able to p[ass on more info regarding Camel Trophy and the 
international trials.  LRNA should still have me on the
media list.  I hope more to come.  Talk to all of you latter.

Roy-Rovers in the Rockies         Gawd!  Soon to be an Army leader?

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 17:00:20 -0800
Subject: oracle questions from neophyte

Retransmit: didn't seem to get out the first time...

The bug is beginning to bite!!! I took the family to the local LR dealer a
couple of times recently. We've currently got a 4d Saturn sedan with me, the
wife, an 11 year old, a 9 year old and a 7 month year old. (All girls,
including the wife :>)) It's rather funny (we laugh about it) to see us all
tumble out of the car. It takes a minute or two, especially as we pick up all
of the things that fall out with us. For those of you around Sacramento, you
know the dealership as Huebacher which primarily sells Caddys. Upscale and
snobbish from our few encounters. After exploring the Disco on display at
length and then perusing the Classic and SE and finally convincing the droid
to let us look at two Defenders set aside, I commented to the wife that she
can have the Disco and I can have the Defender. We were both quite impressed
although the two vehicles are quite different and we haven't really driven
either. One of the things we try to consider in most of our purchases is the
quality: we would rather hold off purchases or do without something else for
a longer time and get the best quality most durable item we can. Seems the
LRs fit the bill.

I have tried to listen to this group and the US offroad list at length to get
a feel for different capabilities as neither of us have done any significant
offroading, but we feel that this is something that we would like to take up.
We have an aluminum boat which we haul to various lakes using the Saturn.
Needless to say, this is somewhat nervewracking. On the other hand, buying  a
LR might be considered overkill for such a task, but as with anything there
are other reasons for all decisions. Any way, on to a few questions, if you
please...

Disco:
The new 95 is quite sharp looking but seems to diverge in styling from
previous years. It's almost to pretty to take offroad. Any of you 95 Disco
owners gone off road yet? Or is the Disco considered more of a mall hopper
(no offense intended)? Clearly, the suspension and all is meant to be used
offroad, but the bodystyling and finish suggest something to "nice" to abuse.
Thoughts??

I noticed in the mid seat, that the wheel well squeezes into the seating area
quite a bit and was definitely not something to use as a rump cushion. In
real life, does this crowd the sitters (remembering that we currently have
two pre teens and a car seat)?

In the back, if the jump seats are installed the one on the drivers side sits
out while the opposite side is recessed. Any idea why? The jump seats don't
lock down. Is this a real life problem when bouncing around the outback or
even on the road?

Have there been any problems with the sunroofs or heating/ac ducts/blowers in
the mid or back sections?

The sales droid was much more familiar with the caddys on the lot and I was
pointing things out to him on the Disco which he didn't have any answers for.
He suggested that the drive is full time 4 wheel drive which integrates the 4
wheel ABS and engine control to provide 4 wheel traction control even in 4lo.
I presume this means the ultimate in 4 wheel drive (and exceeds limited slip
yet doesn't have the problems of stress associated with locked up diffs, and
totally different than AWD) because when any combination of wheels are
slipping (less than 4) the ABS grabs those wheels and allows the non-slipping
wheels to continue on driving. I also assume that  the differentials are
actually open diffs (less wear???) and the traction control manages the
slippage. Is any of this correct (by now, you have guessed that I know very
little about 4Xs and drive systems :>)

I have heard many comments about the faults of the Lucas electrical systems
attached to these cars. Are the newer vehicles any better in this regard?
Needless to say, I have no desire to plop down large sums of money if I am
having to work on them or they are in the shop. I expect more for my money.
(I have a 84 Topaz with 160K miles and still going strong: lots of oil
changes, various electronic and front axle fixes only. With good care many
vehicles can last, and we want this vehicle to go many many years and miles).

The engine compartment seems rather full with little room for add ons. What
have the rest of you been doing for various addons such as air compressors
and water heat exchangers (or are they just not needed: no repairs or welding
requirements off the road???). It looks like there is lots of room under the
chassis. On the other hand, it looks like most of the engine is easily
accessible (plugs etc) and the major accessory components (ac, water pump,
etc) are easy to get at. (the oil filter is quite accessible). Any insight on
this? Are they easy to work on, or do they have to be taken into the service
droid for everything?

Any problems with galvanic corrosion, or aluminum denting? Any problems with
body shops not knowing what to do with al?

Are there any extra expenses or expensive repairs/upkeep issues? ( Although
relatively happy with the Topaz, I hate the tires (translation: tyres)
because they are relatively expensive for the size: extra soft limited
manufacturer. I was not prepared for that and they wear quickly).

I was under the vehicle and it appeared that the clearence was about 10
inches (maybe by this time my eyes were just too big ;-). Later, I was doing
some comparison shopping (the Isuzu if you must know) and their documentation
suggests only 8.1 inches (vs the Isuzu 8.4 inches). What's the truth here?
And is the 8.1 enough to clear most things or does the truck need to be go on
larger tires? Do most folks leave their truck stock on things like suspension
and lift? As I understand things, because of the 4 wheel coil suspension and
the solid axles, the LR can handle most situations very well. Is this correct
thinking? I had a concern that the shock strut support would get hung up on
things rather easily. Any concerns valid here? Also the Isuzu comparison
booklet suggested the Disco had skid plates but I didn't seen any (did I miss
them)? (BTW, the Isuzu booklet compared the 95 Trooper LS with the Disco,
while they compared their Trooper Limited with the Classic. The LS and Disco
were similarly priced, while the Classic was about about 20K more than the
Classic. But I considered this totally "bogus" since the Disco fully loaded
was the equivalent or better in most important areas than the Limited while
the Classic was a totally different vehicle. IMO, if they had done a valid
comparison, they would have compared the Limited with the Disco. Period,
forget the Classic and the LS. The 95 Limited is the equivalent to the 94
LS).

I noticed at least on the Defender and I think on the Disco, that the wheel
is attached to the axle via a round ball (not a very technical description,
sorry). This was exposed to the elements, and although it seems an excellent
aticulation mechanism, it worries me that it would get damaged by a boulder
and even by dirt, sand etc. Comments: is this a real world problem? Does the
"ball" really help in the articulation?

The Disco is rated with a Class III hitch and around 4500 lbs towing capacity
as I remember it. Is the engine and drive train capable of really hauling
that much especially up mountain roads? The engine is rated at 182 hp and 232
lbs torque. Seems a little small for hauling something that heavy???

Are the parts expensive or is the labor to put in parts? Is it the kind of
vehicle that you can take to most reputable repair shops for the standard
things: wheel repacks, tranny work, accessory belt equipment, etc? Or do I
need to take it the LR dealership?

What about theft and insurance? Is it more expensive, are they targets for
theft? Any other pros and cons???

Defender:
Pretty much the same for above.

Are they the same drive system, suspension and ABS/traction control as the
Disco? The droid, needless to say, wasn't volunteering anything either out of
ignorance or nose angle. We were looked over when we spoke with him and he
clearly determined that we weren't able to afford or be interested in the
classic and SE and that we probably couldn't even afford the Disco or
Defender. That's a great way to lose business. Does anybody know the 800
number for LRNA dealer relations? It seems that they may need better
representation in the Sacramento area.

Is  the Defender any tougher or more capable than the Disco? The droid did
indicate that the 94 Defender was the last year because LR was not going to
fit airbags to it. Too bad: neat vehicle!!!! Any pros or cons about the
Defender? (Dumb question: should I get both the Defender AND the Disco???) I
read some recent posts that the new Defender was going to have an Aluminum
hardtop? True? If so, this suggests that the 94 isn't going to be the last
year (for the US I mean).

Any other points of view, comments, pros or cons would definitely be
appreciated. Are their any options which we should definitely avoid or get?

Thanks and sorry for being so long winded, but you owners know the exciting
feeling to anticipate such a purchase. Even now, I'm feeling all tingly and
giddy.....

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 09:01:54 -0800
Subject: oracle questions from neophyte

The bug is beginning to bite!!! I took the family to the local LR dealer a
couple of times recently. We've currently got a 4d Saturn sedan with me, the
wife, an 11 year old, a 9 year old and a 7 month year old. (All girls,
including the wife :>)) It's rather funny (we laugh about it) to see us all
tumble out of the car. It takes a minute or two, especially as we pick up all
of the things that fall out with us. For those of you around Sacramento, you
know the dealership as Huebacher which primarily sells Caddys. Upscale and
snobbish from our few encounters. After exploring the Disco on display at
length and then perusing the Classic and SE and finally convincing the droid
to let us look at two Defenders set aside, I commented to the wife that she
can have the Disco and I can have the Defender. We were both quite impressed
although the two vehicles are quite different and we haven't really driven
either. One of the things we try to consider in most of our purchases is the
quality: we would rather hold off purchases or do without something else for
a longer time and get the best quality most durable item we can. Seems the
LRs fit the bill.

I have tried to listen to this group and the US offroad list at length to get
a feel for different capabilities as neither of us have done any significant
offroading, but we feel that this is something that we would like to take up.
We have an aluminum boat which we haul to various lakes using the Saturn.
Needless to say, this is somewhat nervewracking. On the other hand, buying  a
LR might be considered overkill for such a task, but as with anything there
are other reasons for all decisions. Any way, on to a few questions, if you
please...

Disco:
The new 95 is quite sharp looking but seems to diverge in styling from
previous years. It's almost to pretty to take offroad. Any of you 95 Disco
owners gone off road yet? Or is the Disco considered more of a mall hopper
(no offense intended)? Clearly, the suspension and all is meant to be used
offroad, but the bodystyling and finish suggest something to "nice" to abuse.
Thoughts??

I noticed in the mid seat, that the wheel well squeezes into the seating area
quite a bit and was definitely not something to use as a rump cushion. In
real life, does this crowd the sitters (remembering that we currently have
two pre teens and a car seat)?

In the back, if the jump seats are installed the one on the drivers side sits
out while the opposite side is recessed. Any idea why? The jump seats don't
lock down. Is this a real life problem when bouncing around the outback or
even on the road?

Have there been any problems with the sunroofs or heating/ac ducts/blowers in
the mid or back sections?

The sales droid was much more familiar with the caddys on the lot and I was
pointing things out to him on the Disco which he didn't have any answers for.
He suggested that the drive is full time 4 wheel drive which integrates the 4
wheel ABS and engine control to provide 4 wheel traction control even in 4lo.
I presume this means the ultimate in 4 wheel drive (and exceeds limited slip
yet doesn't have the problems of stress associated with locked up diffs, and
totally different than AWD) because when any combination of wheels are
slipping (less than 4) the ABS grabs those wheels and allows the non-slipping
wheels to continue on driving. I also assume that  the differentials are
actually open diffs (less wear???) and the traction control manages the
slippage. Is any of this correct (by now, you have guessed that I know very
little about 4Xs and drive systems :>)

I have heard many comments about the faults of the Lucas electrical systems
attached to these cars. Are the newer vehicles any better in this regard?
Needless to say, I have no desire to plop down large sums of money if I am
having to work on them or they are in the shop. I expect more for my money.
(I have a 84 Topaz with 160K miles and still going strong: lots of oil
changes, various electronic and front axle fixes only. With good care many
vehicles can last, and we want this vehicle to go many many years and miles).

The engine compartment seems rather full with little room for add ons. What
have the rest of you been doing for various addons such as air compressors
and water heat exchangers (or are they just not needed: no repairs or welding
requirements off the road???). It looks like there is lots of room under the
chassis. On the other hand, it looks like most of the engine is easily
accessible (plugs etc) and the major accessory components (ac, water pump,
etc) are easy to get at. (the oil filter is quite accessible). Any insight on
this? Are they easy to work on, or do they have to be taken into the service
droid for everything?

Any problems with galvanic corrosion, or aluminum denting? Any problems with
body shops not knowing what to do with al?

Are there any extra expenses or expensive repairs/upkeep issues? ( Although
relatively happy with the Topaz, I hate the tires (translation: tyres)
because they are relatively expensive for the size: extra soft limited
manufacturer. I was not prepared for that and they wear quickly).

I was under the vehicle and it appeared that the clearence was about 10
inches (maybe by this time my eyes were just too big ;-). Later, I was doing
some comparison shopping (the Isuzu if you must know) and their documentation
suggests only 8.1 inches (vs the Isuzu 8.4 inches). What's the truth here?
And is the 8.1 enough to clear most things or does the truck need to be go on
larger tires? Do most folks leave their truck stock on things like suspension
and lift? As I understand things, because of the 4 wheel coil suspension and
the solid axles, the LR can handle most situations very well. Is this correct
thinking? I had a concern that the shock strut support would get hung up on
things rather easily. Any concerns valid here? Also the Isuzu comparison
booklet suggested the Disco had skid plates but I didn't seen any (did I miss
them)? (BTW, the Isuzu booklet compared the 95 Trooper LS with the Disco,
while they compared their Trooper Limited with the Classic. The LS and Disco
were similarly priced, while the Classic was about about 20K more than the
Classic. But I considered this totally "bogus" since the Disco fully loaded
was the equivalent or better in most important areas than the Limited while
the Classic was a totally different vehicle. IMO, if they had done a valid
comparison, they would have compared the Limited with the Disco. Period,
forget the Classic and the LS. The 95 Limited is the equivalent to the 94
LS).

I noticed at least on the Defender and I think on the Disco, that the wheel
is attached to the axle via a round ball (not a very technical description,
sorry). This was exposed to the elements, and although it seems an excellent
aticulation mechanism, it worries me that it would get damaged by a boulder
and even by dirt, sand etc. Comments: is this a real world problem? Does the
"ball" really help in the articulation?

The Disco is rated with a Class III hitch and around 4500 lbs towing capacity
as I remember it. Is the engine and drive train capable of really hauling
that much especially up mountain roads? The engine is rated at 182 hp and 232
lbs torque. Seems a little small for hauling something that heavy???

Are the parts expensive or is the labor to put in parts? Is it the kind of
vehicle that you can take to most reputable repair shops for the standard
things: wheel repacks, tranny work, accessory belt equipment, etc? Or do I
need to take it the LR dealership?

What about theft and insurance? Is it more expensive, are they targets for
theft? Any other pros and cons???

Defender:
Pretty much the same for above.

Are they the same drive system, suspension and ABS/traction control as the
Disco? The droid, needless to say, wasn't volunteering anything either out of
ignorance or nose angle. We were looked over when we spoke with him and he
clearly determined that we weren't able to afford or be interested in the
classic and SE and that we probably couldn't even afford the Disco or
Defender. That's a great way to lose business. Does anybody know the 800
number for LRNA dealer relations? It seems that they may need better
representation in the Sacramento area.

Is  the Defender any tougher or more capable than the Disco? The droid did
indicate that the 94 Defender was the last year because LR was not going to
fit airbags to it. Too bad: neat vehicle!!!! Any pros or cons about the
Defender? (Dumb question: should I get both the Defender AND the Disco???) I
read some recent posts that the new Defender was going to have an Aluminum
hardtop? True? If so, this suggests that the 94 isn't going to be the last
year (for the US I mean).

Any other points of view, comments, pros or cons would definitely be
appreciated. Are their any options which we should definitely avoid or get?

Thanks and sorry for being so long winded, but you owners know the exciting
feeling to anticipate such a purchase. Even now, I'm feeling all tingly and
giddy.....

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re:D-90 Overdrives
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 11:19:07 +1030 (CST)

> On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Russell Burns wrote:
> > I have heard that you can put a overdrive in a D-90.
> > is there any truth to this..
none

Soren writes:
> Defenders has a centre diff and permanent 4x4. So the front axle is always 
> "on".
> There's no point in fitting an OD. You might even trash the centre diff.

I'm not sure I see the relevance of the constant 4x4 to the overdrive
question, unless of course you are thinking of an overdrive "a la" MG's
toyota crowns and the like (mounted between the g/box output and the diff as
a seperate 2sp g/box)

There is/was an overdrive available for the 4sp LT95 gearbox as fitted to
older rangies and early 110's.  This may be the unit that Russ is refering
to. Like the series car OD it fitted in place of the pto plate upstream of
the transfer case. I doubt that there would be an OD for the later 5sp boxes
but who knows!

Anybody know anything about the LT95 OD's  good,bad, noisy, long/short lived.
Might be nice to fit to the stage 1 some day if they are any good.

cheers
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

From: Solihul@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 19:50:38 -0500
Subject: Oil pressure guage sender

I have a spare brass banjo fitting from a junk 2.25. I tapped the 'neck' end
to 1/8 BSP and will install a more common sender from NAPA to operate the
guage. I thought the engine's bottom end was going (25psi at top speed)
before I realized the sender was bogus. It wasn't making rod noises, that was
the tipoff.  I'll let everyone know how well it works after next wkend.

------------------------------

From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Re: oracle questions from neophyte
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 12:30:29 EST

> The sales droid was much more familiar with the caddys on the lot and I was
> pointing things out to him on the Disco which he didn't have any answers for.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> actually open diffs (less wear???) and the traction control manages the
> slippage. Is any of this correct (by now, you have guessed that I know very
> little about 4Xs and drive systems :>)

To my knowledge, traction control is only available on the Range Rover, 
but it does work how you describe, but it cannot be used for long, as it 
will shut off if the brakes start to heat up.

> I have heard many comments about the faults of the Lucas electrical systems
> attached to these cars. Are the newer vehicles any better in this regard?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> changes, various electronic and front axle fixes only. With good care many
> vehicles can last, and we want this vehicle to go many many years and miles).

Lucas electric aren't all that bad, it is just that people with series 
Land Rovers have electrical systems that are probably at least 20 years 
old!

> The engine compartment seems rather full with little room for add ons. What
> have the rest of you been doing for various addons such as air compressors
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> this? Are they easy to work on, or do they have to be taken into the service
> droid for everything?
Cannot answer this one, as there is plenty of room in the engine bay of 
my Series 1

> Any problems with galvanic corrosion, or aluminum denting? Any problems with
> body shops not knowing what to do with al?
> and water heat exchangers (or are they just not needed: no repairs or welding
When aluminium is bent, it stretches, so it is a bit hard to panel beat, 
also there is an art to welding aluminium, as it does not change colour 
with heat, it just turns in to a puddle.

> I noticed at least on the Defender and I think on the Disco, that the wheel
> is attached to the axle via a round ball (not a very technical description,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> and even by dirt, sand etc. Comments: is this a real world problem? Does the
> "ball" really help in the articulation?
The only ball I can think of is for the steering on the front axle, and 
has nothing to do with suspension.  If you are really worried about them 
tho I think you can buy gaitors for them.

> The Disco is rated with a Class III hitch and around 4500 lbs towing capacity
> as I remember it. Is the engine and drive train capable of really hauling
> that much especially up mountain roads? The engine is rated at 182 hp and 232
> lbs torque. Seems a little small for hauling something that heavy???
> I presume this means the ultimate in 4 wheel drive (and exceeds limited slip
The series 1 with a 1.6 4 cylinder was rated at 2 tons cross country!!!!

> Are the parts expensive or is the labor to put in parts? Is it the kind of
> vehicle that you can take to most reputable repair shops for the standard
> things: wheel repacks, tranny work, accessory belt equipment, etc? Or do I
> need to take it the LR dealership?

Wheel bearings do not need packing with grease, as the they are fed oil 
from the diffs.

> Are they the same drive system, suspension and ABS/traction control as the
> Disco? The droid, needless to say, wasn't volunteering anything either out of
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> number for LRNA dealer relations? It seems that they may need better
> representation in the Sacramento area.

The drive trains are all pretty much the same I think, except for the 
Range Rover, which has Electronic Air Suspension and traction control.

> Is  the Defender any tougher or more capable than the Disco? The droid did
> indicate that the 94 Defender was the last year because LR was not going to
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> hardtop? True? If so, this suggests that the 94 isn't going to be the last
> year (for the US I mean).

The defender is meant as a work horse, you know hose out interior and 
that sort of stuff, the chassies on both vehicles I would say are just as 
strong, as well as drive train components.
> Any other points of view, comments, pros or cons would definitely be
> appreciated. Are their any options which we should definitely avoid or get?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> -- 
> Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

A word of advice.

If you do want to do serious off roading, I would buy a Defender, as some 
one in the LROC of Victoria I know, bought a  Disco, and regrets it now!
He is having a lockright fitted to the rear, 7.00 SAT's and a safari snorkle.

--
==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                    |       1955 Series 1 86"
LROC of Victoria Australia                      |       2.25 diesel 
LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia            |       My car is constipated,
email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                   |       It has not passed a 
                                                |       thing all day!!

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 20:34:18 -0500
Subject: Re: HELP! I Need Range Rover Parts

<What sort of winch and brushbar arrangement do you have -- it sounds like a
great idea but I'm not clear exactly where the lights are mounted.

If only there were a way to shoot graphics over the net...  Give me your
address and I'll drop you a Polaroid.  The bush bars are the ones from
Atlantic British.  They are very well made and handsome, I think.  There are
two large verticals that wrap up from the frame, around the bumper and grill,
just inside the headlight position.  A horizontal bar is attached to it that
wraps around the grill and fenders of the truck.  I'm sure you've seen them.
 Attached to the bush bars, level with the bumper and centered, is a shallow
steel tray.  In it, sitting like a loaf of bread (big) is a 8,000#
SuperWinch.  In the area underneath this tray is the licence plate, centered
between the two driving lights.  It looks very truck-ish and business-like,
and improves the front approach anglr considerably.

I hope this helps. - Tony

------------------------------

From: EvanD103@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 20:39:22 -0500
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail...

I feel like I've been missing something... the Digest has only had 8 or 9
entries each of the last three days instead of the usual 50 or so.  We can't
all be away from our computers and in the woods in our Landies can we???
Erik van Dyck
Stone Mountain, Ga.
1973 Ser 3 88"

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: D-90 clanks, and groans.
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 12:10:14 +1030 (CST)

Russ reports funny noises frm the D-90:
> Any time I was doing some rock climbing, I would get a clanking sound
> from the transfer case. I also would get a slight ratcheting sound from
> the front drive assembly, when decending a steep slope in low-low .

Just to help clarify things, was the centre diff locked ??

If it wasnt then the noises are probably complaints from it as wheels spin
and grip.   If I dont read the ground well and neglect to lock the centre
diff the stage 1 can sound like a jack-hammer as a wheel spins and grips.
Mind you I "know" that my centre diff is 3 parts shot.

If it was.. sorry cant help better let a D-90 driver try to figure it out.

cheers
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Re: Ltd.slip ?
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 95 9:06:50 EST

> Call me dumb: but "why" wouldn't you want limited slip differentials on a
> 4wd-system, such as a Disco or RR (full-time 4wd/viscous coupling)?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> Network Operations Manager
> Univ. of Calif. Santa Barbara

If you are talking about a limited slip in the back diff, you used to be 
able to get one as an optional extra back in the sixties, but I don't 
think they sold many.  I know someone how had one temporarily in his IIA, 
but he did not like it as it chopped his paddocks up too much.

--
==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                    |       1955 Series 1 86"
LROC of Victoria Australia                      |       2.25 diesel 
LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia            |       No Hill to Steep!
email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                   |       No Ditch to Deep!

------------------------------

From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Re: Misc
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 95 9:16:37 EST

> > > RE:Misc Ramblings
> > > I have some misc. ramblings, so here goes:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 32 lines)]
> Kelly Minnick  '73 88" Safari
> Ridgecrest, CA (USA)

I did not say that the original shock absorbers were the best ones to 
have, you have too look around, for example, my 86" has 88" diesel 
shock absorbers on the rear, and 109" shock absorbers on the front, so 
that the shockers run out of travel when the springs do.

--
==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                    |       1955 Series 1 86"
LROC of Victoria Australia                      |       2.25 diesel 
LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia            |       My car is constipated,
email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                   |       It has not passed a 
                                                |       thing all day!!

------------------------------

From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Re: Misc
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 12:46:32 EST

> RE:Misc Ramblings
> I have some misc. ramblings, so here goes:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> have to wait until the rear springs settle back down.  This comment about the
> springs keeping the axles/shocks from extending too far is therefore not
> correct!  I think you will bust shocks!

If you have the correct shockers, the springs will run out of travel just 
as the shocks run out of travel.  My brother was told to put 110" rear 
shockers on the back of his 109" as it would give it more suspension travel!
Besides I have never seen a broken shock mount an a Land Rover, and not 
many of them out here have axle straps!

--
==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                    |       1955 Series 1 86"
LROC of Victoria Australia                      |       2.25 diesel 
LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia            |       No Hill to Steep!
email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                   |       No Ditch to Deep!

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: oracle questions from neophyte
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 18:50:55 PST

101 question time. I own a D-90, and a 91 Range Rover (close to a disco)
First either one is a great off road truck. Both will go any where you want
to take them.
> Retransmit: didn't seem to get out the first time...
> The bug is beginning to bite!!! I took the family to the local LR dealer a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)]
> a longer time and get the best quality most durable item we can. Seems the
> LRs fit the bill.
Three kids will rule out a D-90 as a pratical vehicle.
> I have tried to listen to this group and the US offroad list at length to get
> a feel for different capabilities as neither of us have done any significant
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
> offroad, but the bodystyling and finish suggest something to "nice" to abuse.
> Thoughts??
The disco is designed for off road work. There is ample ground clearence
8.1 in under the diff, 11.8 under the axle, and 14.4 under the frame.
The axles have the most vertical travle in the industry 11"
in the rear, and 8" in the front. The approach, breakover, and departure
angles are great for a 7 passenger vehicle. The aluminum body does not 
rust when scratched.

 
> I noticed in the mid seat, that the wheel well squeezes into the seating area
> quite a bit and was definitely not something to use as a rump cushion. In
> real life, does this crowd the sitters (remembering that we currently have
> two pre teens and a car seat)?
My parents survived a trip to the west coast from Mi. with a car seat
in the middle of the range rover. The seat is the same layout, for
that matter is is basicly the same vehicle, only the bodies vary.

> In the back, if the jump seats are installed the one on the drivers side sits
> out while the opposite side is recessed. Any idea why? The jump seats don't
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> Have there been any problems with the sunroofs or heating/ac ducts/blowers in
> the mid or back sections?
My sunroof still functions 3 years 65K miles. lots of dirt, and dust.
> The sales droid was much more familiar with the caddys on the lot and I was
> pointing things out to him on the Disco which he didn't have any answers for.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> actually open diffs (less wear???) and the traction control manages the
> slippage. Is any of this correct (by now, you have guessed that I know very
> little about 4Xs and drive systems :>)
The sale person is a little confused here. The disco has full time four
wheel drive, with a locking center differental. The extreme wheel travel
makes up for the open diffs in the front, and the rear. The traction
control only comes on the Range Rovers. (last I looked)
The brakes are the best I have ever had. ABS you can take it or leave it,
but the power assist, and the 12 brake cylnders are the best.

> I have heard many comments about the faults of the Lucas electrical systems
> attached to these cars. Are the newer vehicles any better in this regard?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> changes, various electronic and front axle fixes only. With good care many
> vehicles can last, and we want this vehicle to go many many years and miles).
I have had a couple of electrical problems. One bad throttle pot on the
Range Rover, and a bad fuel pump connecter on the D-90.(i think)
Neither stranded the vehicle, they were just annoying. 
> The engine compartment seems rather full with little room for add ons. What
> have the rest of you been doing for various addons such as air compressors
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> this? Are they easy to work on, or do they have to be taken into the service
> droid for everything?
I have done all the maintance on both of my vehicles. They are fairly
straight forward, and easy to fix.

> Any problems with galvanic corrosion, or aluminum denting? Any problems with
> body shops not knowing what to do with al?
I dented the rear fender on the Range Rover, backing up a pop-up camper
at night. (I was tired, and thought a yellow porch light was the trailer light)
When I got home I unbolted the fender, and pounded out the dent with a mallet.

> Are there any extra expenses or expensive repairs/upkeep issues? ( Although
> relatively happy with the Topaz, I hate the tires (translation: tyres)
> because they are relatively expensive for the size: extra soft limited
> manufacturer. I was not prepared for that and they wear quickly).
> (I have a 84 Topaz with 160K miles and still going strong: lots of oil

I replace the Ranger Rover tires at 35K they would have gone another 10 or
15K. No alignment issues after 65K, and some serious offroading.
> I was under the vehicle and it appeared that the clearence was about 10
> inches (maybe by this time my eyes were just too big ;-). Later, I was doing
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)]
> forget the Classic and the LS. The 95 Limited is the equivalent to the 94
> LS).
I had a chance to watch some jeeps, and isuzus in action in Utah (I also own
a 88 isuzu trooper) Watching them perform off road make one realize the
value of a land rover. As for skid plates, They are available, but I have
never really seen the need. I drive slow, and am somewhat careful.
I will drive over anything slowly. All the important junk is even, or
above the frame making it hard to wack something.
The front steering rod is vernable (sp), but if you wack it it can be
field repaired.
> I noticed at least on the Defender and I think on the Disco, that the wheel
> is attached to the axle via a round ball (not a very technical description,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> and even by dirt, sand etc. Comments: is this a real world problem? Does the
> "ball" really help in the articulation?
This ball encloses the cv joint. I assume it is strong, but know that it
will eventally rust and pit causing an oil leak. The CV joints are bathed
in oil.
> The Disco is rated with a Class III hitch and around 4500 lbs towing capacity
> as I remember it. Is the engine and drive train capable of really hauling
> that much especially up mountain roads? The engine is rated at 182 hp and 232
> lbs torque. Seems a little small for hauling something that heavy???
> (I have a 84 Topaz with 160K miles and still going strong: lots of oil
I pull a 3500 lbs trailer with my Range Rover. It could use a little
more umph, but is does get the job done. 35 mph was the low speed
on I70 out of denver.
> Are the parts expensive or is the labor to put in parts? Is it the kind of
> vehicle that you can take to most reputable repair shops for the standard
> things: wheel repacks, tranny work, accessory belt equipment, etc? Or do I
> need to take it the LR dealership?
> (I have a 84 Topaz with 160K miles and still going strong: lots of oil
Parts are expensive, but good. Repair shops I know nothing about.

> What about theft and insurance? Is it more expensive, are they targets for
> theft? Any other pros and cons???
> things: wheel repacks, tranny work, accessory belt equipment, etc? Or do I
The insurance for my Range Rover was less than the eagle talon I traded in. 
I think the lack of black market parts keeps the theft down.
> Defender:
> Pretty much the same for above.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)]
> hardtop? True? If so, this suggests that the 94 isn't going to be the last
> year (for the US I mean).
I use my D-90 for a commuter vehicle. I drive 100 miles a day.
The noise abatement takes some work. The ride is great, and the seating
comfort is as good as anything else I have owned. The only drawback is
the noise. If you like to camp, and are going to use it off road, it
is the greatest think since sliced bread. It will cruise at 70-80mph
all day, tackle the toughest roads, you can eat off the fenders,
and you will get lots of stares, and questions. It will tow 3500 + pounds.
(the d-90 is rated at 3500kg in the UK, and 3500lbs in the US.)
and is fun to drive.

> Any other points of view, comments, pros or cons would definitely be
> appreciated. Are their any options which we should definitely avoid or get?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> -- 
> Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Heaven and hell and Canada
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:53:42 -0700 (MST)

Granville Pool writes:
  
< Heaven is where:
<      The chefs are all French
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
<      The mechanics are all French
<      The lovers are all Swiss
<      And it's all run by the Italians.

And then there's Canada, which historically and geographically had a rare 
opportunity to create heaven on earth based on:
	British government
	French culture
and	American business...

Instead they created hell on earth with:
	French government
	British business
and 	American culture.

How to make friends and alienate half a continent by,

T. F. Mills                                              tomills@du.edu
University of Denver Library  2150 E. Evans Ave.  Denver  CO 80208  USA
      http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 00:30:01 -0800 (PST)
From: "S. F. Yee" <travsboc@crl.com>
Subject: Land Rovers = Credibility?

Hot on the trails (sic) of such fine media portrayals in "Tom Clancy's Op 
Centre" is my recent observation that the David Silver character on 
"Beverly Hills, 90210" (Brian Austin Green) drives a new black Defender 90.

In the world of non-fiction, the Associated Press reported that Michael 
Jordan suddenly left the White Sox spring training camp "in his black Range 
Rover."

It must be indeed a slow week on the list!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 10:30:16 -0600 (CST)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Overdrive prices; hubs

Right you are.  Those were the Dual Matic and like you I found then a 
real pain.  I have to admit however that whenever I bought one of my 
eight Land Rovers they had always been beaten to death by the previous 
owner(s) so maybe these little thigs worked better when new but from a 
design standpoint I don't think so.  
My three attempts to ask this question using regular E-Mail have bounced 
this week so I am going to ask it here.  Is 21" of Hg at idle on the 2 
1/4 Petrol about ball park, and is CO2 OK in my MIG for welding on the 
Land Rover or do I have to go Argon or Argon/CO2 etc.  Thanks Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Subject: toys
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 95 20:20:36 -0500

Have just seen latest release from Rocco in 1/87. It is a s3 109 sw 
towing a horse box trailer. 

retails locally for aboout 23 all in.

next releases listed in the catalogue are #1343, 109 ser n/k sw "THW"
in blue, looks like a siren on the hood.

ohter coming is # 1721, 109 ser n/k with roof rack towing zodiak on 
trailer.

WOULD ANYONE WHO WOULD BE INTERESTED IN RECEIVING TOY NEWS UPDATES PLEASE 
DROP ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS AND I WILL HOPE TO SEND OUT REGULAR UPDATES.

rgds

robin

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Date: 09 Mar 95 23:50:18 EST
From: "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com>
Subject: Defender 90/110 Factory winch/bullbar

Hi guys

 If you would be interested in a Defender 90/110 factory Land Rover PTO
Capstan winch with (very cool) integrated bull bar.  It will also fit any land
rover with lights on the fender (SIII style)  Currently on a Defender 110. 
Email me.

 Hmmm interesting messages about overdrives.  Are these new or used units?
 I probably could have done better if it was a bulk order.  We deal with
Merseyside all the time.  Although they are very convenient (for us anyhow)
and have a lot of stock on hand, I would be very careful to detail EXACTLY
what you want.  Better yet, talk to Mike only.  The other guys mess up orders
because they don't know about Land Rovers.

 Anyway, I'm on my way outta NYC thank goodness.  On my way to
Boston/Northboro - any enthusiasts out that way?

 Cheers

 Leslie

 U.K. Land Rovers Import/Export Co.
 813-954-4304

 "80/86/88/107/109' available
 hard/soft or truck cabs - just call"

------------------------------

From: Tom Stevenson <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Freewheeling hubs
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 09:58:48 +0000 (GMT)

I have heard of fitting FWH to the rear axles; it produces fuel savings
of 100% with all hubs disengaged but drastically reduces top speed to
about 0 mph. I would think that parking on a hill without a scotch brake
would be tricky as well.
Cheers!
-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(0475) 530581  Fax:(0475) 530601

------------------------------

From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Re: Defender 90/110 Factory winch/bullbar
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 16:06:15 EST

> Hi guys
>  If you would be interested in a Defender 90/110 factory Land Rover PTO
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>  Cheers
>  Leslie

Are sure that it is a capstan winch and not just a normal PTO drum winch, 
as a capstan winch on the front is not driven from the PTO but from the 
crank shaft of the motor.

--
==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                    |       1955 Series 1 86"
LROC of Victoria Australia                      |       2.25 diesel 
LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia            |       My car is constipated,
email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                   |       It has not passed a 
                                                |       thing all day!!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 23:19:10 -0600 (CST)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: One last try

I seem to be having mail problems when I use any lro@team.net addresses 
but here goes for a last try.  For you welders out there, is CO2 OK in my 
MIG bottle for work on the Land Rover, or will I have to go full Argon?  
For you mechanics is 21" of Hg at idle spec for the 2 1/4 L Petrol?
Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 19:46:37 -0600 (CST)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Manifold for small block Chev

I seem to be having mail problems.  What is the smallest manifold I can 
get for a small block Chev.  I don't want it to stick out very far and if 
possible it should exit above the outlets not down as most cars do.  My 
present one off the 79 Chevelle hits the frame.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 19:55:49 -0600 (CST)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Chev Manifold.

The compartment in the Land Rover is quite narrow.  Which small block 
Chev engine has the narrowest exhaust manifolds.  Something like a 
Malibou with the manifold coming up might work, but I need the slimist 
profile I can find for my project. My problem is on the passenger side so 
even one manifold up and one down is acceptable.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 23:35:05 -0600 (CST)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Technical Question

One last try. Hope my mail works now.  A question for you mechanics out 
there and one for the welders in the pack.  I am running 21" of Hg at 
idle on a rebuilt 2 1/4 L petrol.  I that spec for this vehicle?  Second, 
can I use CO2 in my Mig bottle for the Land Rover Body or do I need to go 
full Argon and Al wire or perhaps flux core Al?  Do I just set the 
amperage at a good sizzle sound as usual, or is there an actual preferred 
setting for Burmabright of Dural?  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III)
Subject: Capstan winch querry.
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 00:51:07 

I got the oportunity to put a stock Defender 110 capstan winch on the front of 
a III 88"  How much can these puppies pull?

Taylor...ever so close...really and truly I'm gonna go drive one Friday.  :)

-- 
     One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
     One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
     In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. 
<->                  C. Taylor Sutherland, III               <->
<->      IRC Nick:  NIV       <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <->

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re:Chev V8 conv.
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 16:28:59 +1030 (CST)

Dave writes:
> The compartment in the Land Rover is quite narrow.  Which small block 
> Chev engine has the narrowest exhaust manifolds.  Something like a 
> Malibou with the manifold coming up might work, but I need the slimist 
> profile I can find for my project. My problem is on the passenger side so 
> even one manifold up and one down is acceptable.  Dave VE4PN

I dont know much about small block chevs, but unless you are committed to
that route consider a ford Windsor V8 (260/289/302/351!). As I remember the V
is narrower than most.   I've seen one *really* neat Windsor + Auto in a IIa
many years ago.  It was just so tidy it was hard to believe that it wasnt a
factory job.

Just a thought
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 10:32:50 -0500
Subject: Big Screen Rovers

Well, here's another movie for you Roverphiles to check out.  I caught bits &
pieces of THE DOGS OF WAR with Cristopher Walken while surfing the TV last
night.  Old Landys everywhere, although the line "Your Jeep is waiting, sir"
pops up from time to time.  They must have corraled every Land Rover in Costa
Rica when they shot this thing.  

------------------------------

From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 02:14:40 -0500
Subject: Thanks /  New Member

Thanks to all who found me wandering around in the British car list and
guided me through the golden gates of Land Roverdom.
Brief Profile:  Rick Crider, age 38,  Monroe  NC (near Charlotte)  Long time
Land Rover and Range Rover owner.  Current British: '73 Series III  88" (one
owner / mint!) and 1988 Range Rover (daily mule).  Other obsessions:  Alfa
Romeos and Ham Radio.   Correspondence welcome....especially nearby Rover
owners.    Thanks.    rickcrider@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: 09 Mar 95 12:10:25 EST
From: Pierce Reid <PREID@csi.compuserve.com>
Subject:  More Rovers in Living Daylights

Watched the movie "The Living Daylights" last night and saw lots of Rovers --
more than any other Bond movie:

Opening scene -- Series III military being driven flat-out across Gibralter
ending in its' being driven off a cliff and exploding in mid-air after Bond
parachutes out of it (Should this be a new Camel Trophy event?)

Several Range Rovers outside a large English Manor house where they were
debriefing a defector.  One had a massive bull-bar.  Another was part of an
emergency response team.  both were bronze-green SWB's.

And a Defender 90 cobbled up to look Like a Russian GAZ jeep that chases a C-130
(cobbled to look like a Russian IL-27 transport) and gets dropped out the back
before the plane crashes.

I don't think I missed any this time.

BTW... Where'd everyone go?  The list is 1/4 the size as before.  This can't be
because Taylor stopped asking questions.... ;-)

Cheers, 

R. P. Reid

------------------------------

Date: 08 Mar 95 07:35:00 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: RR putting the heat on

How consolating that a RR, too, is after all deep down a quirky Land Rover...
Spent the whole weekend with first one, then three buddies breaking our
heads why all of a sudden the beast ('87 RR EFi), after cold start and at
-5 deg.C after only three minutes had the temp gauge all the way in the 
red and was hot like it had fever.
My first 'aural' estimate (which was correct): The water pump. It was
sizzling hot and making rattling grinding noises (which it shouldn't). Had
someone bring a replacement pump from the workshop and pulled out the
suspected culprit (entails taking off half a dozen other components like
fan housing, viscous unit, steering pump, alternator etc. and sorting and
numbering the bolts that hold the pump - it is affixed by 10 bolts with
5 different lengths and 3 different threads, and G-d help you if you mix
up any of them on reassembly). Sure enough, the pump was shot, but that
sort of damage none of us had ever seen before: The edges and surfaces of
the rotating pump wheel looked like they had been coarsly sandblasted,
all pitted and chipped, and the mating surface on the front engine cover
had a circular depression that looked like a wash-out from swirling water.
Makes me worry, because directly behind this depression in the already rather
thin cover is the timing chain housing. Imagine water being forced with
high pressure through a crack into the timing gears... Let's hope it ain't
so (yet). Question to the list: Has anyone ever seen a water pump damage
of this sort? Any speculations?
After water pump replacement and refilling the cooling system we did a
test run... same problem! We all agreed that this *could* only be the
thermostat - and were right again. Pulled out the thermostat (relatively
easy after you clear some of the ubiquitous EFi electric cablings out of
the way), it had gook and particles on it and didn't open properly in hot
water. Got a new thermostat with a lower rating (82 instead of the recommended
88), reassembled it and - still no improvement!! Ok, being systematic minds
we decided to do a reverse check: Take out the thermostat and run the engine
*without* thermostat. Did that - sure enough, the engine was cold even after
having forced the beast up a prolonged incline in 4th gear. Had a hunch...
after all this is Rover country... dropped the brand-new thermostat in boiling
water - it was non-functional! Genuine part! Got another one from the rack,
tested it *before* installing - this one worked, and we installed it. Did
another test-run ... you guessed it: STILL HOT !  By now none of us was
capable of normal conversation any more, and we were just swearing profanely
and profusely and making rude gestures to the car and to one another. Someone
defused the situation by pulling up a crate of beer and we began drinking - er,
I mean philosophizing... like why we didn't just drive normal cars like
Toyotas or BMW. The notion was ultimately dismissed with reasons like not
going with the crowd, a man needing a challenge, and similiar BS.
After a while when tempers had settled we made another tottering attempt at
logic and arrived at the question what it was that makes a V8 EFi so much
more troublesome than, say, a 4-cyl.: the electric components! And who
makes the electrics? LUCAS!!!  We simultaneously jumped to our feet, one
tore out the instrument block and pulled out the temp meter ... tested that,
was ok... while another one removed the temp gauge from the motor block;
put the multi-meter on that one... WE HAD IT! It gave correct values till
about 60 deg.C, then it suddenly surged and went to infinite. Put in a new
water temp gauge sensor, and the problem was gone - correct temperature,
correct reading.
While finishing off the remaining beers we summarized: *One* problem caused
*simultaneously* by *three* defects where each defect on its own could have
produced the problem, further complicated by a new spare part that was already
shot... now if this wasn't truly a Land Rover experience. And it shows how
important it is to be able to work on your Land/Range/Disco Rover yourself -
imagine what a regular garage would've done to you -and your wallet- if you'd
bring in a car with such a problem...

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 


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