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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 05:25:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Guilt trip.

Why pick on Taylor, indeed! 

I suppose we all would take a differant view if he would just go find a
Rover and bring it home and *then* start asking questions. At this point, he
has asked more questions and has more information than anyone I've ever
heard of. Period. I'm probably like most others - here in the States.
Previous to buying mine, the closest I had ever been to one was 17 years
earlier, at the New York car show in New York City. (A brand new SerIII) 
Although I had owned Triumphs for 15 years before buying my SerIII, I didn't
have a clue as to what might go wrong and what to look for in a Rover. I saw
it and it was love at first sight. Now I've got three more and assorted
piles of parts stashed here and there.. 

Taylor keeps comparing things to his Toyota and Blazer.. from the sound of
it, he doesn't much care for either and probably beat the crap out of both.
Chances are he'll beat the crap out of a Rover, too. And then maybe he'll go
off looking for something better and that will end it. On the other hand,
maybe, just maybe he will realize just what it is about Land Rovers that
make us all love them in our own special way.. maybe he'll get a little 90wt
in his blood...

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 05:26:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Fed Ex

Kelly's shipment....

> FAX'ed these people back their silly form.  They promised the order would
> be
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> to
> know where the cloth came from or something.  This is really strange!

Not so strange, really.. It's a U.S.Customs regulation that deals with
agricultural concerns. Customs gets worried about the nasty bugs that other
countries have and the U.S. doesn't have. When I was in the USAF and
stationed overseas I had (as one of my "additional" duties) to work as a
Customs inspector and check out what people were shipping back to the U.S.
There were quite a few agricultural-type items that we were forbidden to
transport back. 

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 05:26:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Breakover Angles

Dixon replies to Michael Carradine...

>         I will see if I can get the page number from an old LR publication
>         that has a photo of a Series One lifted by a hydraulic lift
>         on one side, a large chalk board in the background that says
>         40 degrees, the text somewhere saying that if stationary, it can
>         go to 45 degrees (one foot horizontal, one foot vertical) before

A couple of others...
"The Land Rover 1948-1988" by James Taylor. Pg 15 shows a "pilot-built" land
Rover on a lift at 45 degrees, with a sign on the windscreen that states
"Safe operating angle - 30 degrees"

"Land Rover  The Unbeatable 4x4" Third edition by K & J Slavin and GN Mackie
has on pg 170 a Range-Rover ambulance conversion on a special tilting floor
rig. The floor is at 40 degrees while a second guage on the body of the
Range Rover ambulance shows 50 degrees. The caption for the picture reads
"All body conversions undergo a tilt test."

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject:  Breakover Angles
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:14:36 UNDEFINED

/  45 degrees is MUCH too far, that's a 100% sideslope!  The Hummer spec's

That's the figure I've seen. Think it was 44 DEGREES.....

/  claim a 40 % (percent) side slope capability, or about 23.6 degrees.

Hell! A transit van can do better than that! Someone is mixing up % and 
degrees.

/  The 1993 Range Rover County brochure claims a breakover angle of 29
/  degrees, or 48.5 % percent, while the 1993 Range Rover County LWB claims

And the breakover angle is a different beastie entirely - it is the angle of 
the step the vehicle can drive over at right angles before scratching its 
tummy! No relation to the sideslope angle at all except that in general, the 
two are weakly inversely related (tall vehicles roll belly up easier)

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Snow driving
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:20:16 UNDEFINED

/WRT the the manual versus viscuous differential issue. It sounds to me like 
/the '89 and later viscuous diff would work better in snow. How squirrelly 
/will an '87 or '88 be with open diffs? I briefly drove a Trooper recently and 

My 90 is the same configuration with the centre diff locked as an 88 in 4wd. I 
prefer the diff locked in snow and ice, not for reasons of traction, but 
because this makes the rear break free easier so you can steer with teh back. 
This is almost impossible with the centre diff unlocked - damn thing  
understeers like a pig!

------------------------------

Date: 02 Mar 95 09:05:52 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Shocks & springs for 89 Range Rover

> I have a probing question about the springs and shocks on a 89 Range Rover
> (66K miles).  Under hard braking (in straight line) the car has recently
> developed a tendency to pull to the right.

... to which John answered:

> IMO, thje most likely cause of the problem is the front bushings on the
> rear radius arms -- they need replacing. They wear rapidly and cause just
> the symptoms you relate. Replacement is very easy.

I'll go along with John there. @ 66K miles, the suspension bushings are
*crying* for a replacement.  Parts are cheap, and replacement is, well,
relatively easy - but be sure to observe and apply the correct torque all
around after having de-rusted and cleaned (but not greased!) all threads. Use
new nuts!  And while you're at it, I'd replace *all* the bushings on front
_and_ back radius arms, the rear A-bracket, and the front panhard rod. If you
feel adventurous and have some time and a well equipped workbench you might
also want to check the joints/bushes of the self-leveling unit.  Bit of a
knuckle-skinning job, though, and not *really* neccessary.
Sagging springs & weak shocks, even if present, don't usually cause a braking
problem like you relate. I've seen Range Rovers drive around that looked
like they had a flat - except they didn't.

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 09:30:01 -0500
From: stephen.thomas@tridom.com (Stephen Thomas)
Subject: Re: Breakover Angles

>Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 17:00:12 -0500 (EST)
>From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>	you are leaning about 20 degrees it begins to get un-nerving, let
>	alone 40-45 degrees.  (no, haven't tried & not sure I want to yet)

A personal note here. The local Land Rover Dealer (Atlanta, GA) has a
special "test course" that they use to demonstrate the merchandise. The
course is paved, but it includes 45 degree approach and departure angles,
and a 36 degree side angle. Having taken my own Disco through the course,
I can offer a strong second to Dixon's comments. At 36 degrees, you
feel like you're damn near upside down!

____________________________________________________________
Stephen Thomas
AT&T Tridom                 Phone: (404) 514-3522
840 Franklin Court          Fax:   (404) 514-3491
Marietta, GA 30067  USA     Email: stephen.thomas@tridom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 06:55:26 -0800
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: 80" coilers >> yum, yum

Say Taylor,

Let us know who is going to build these 80" Series Is with Defender 
Bulkheads (and windscreens), (with tastefully de-waisted A-posts, of 
course), 3.9--no make that 4.5--V-8s, autobox, viscous coupling, military 
lightweight bodywork from the bulkhead forward, Rancho springs (11"/15" 
wheel travel), of course throw in Macnamara diffs, Safety Devices cages, did 
I forget anything?  Oh, yeah, ABS to offset the autobox.  How about a 
center-mounted 10,000 lb pto winch, with fairleads at both ends?

I think it's fair to suggest that we could get up a pretty good-sized bulk 
order for these puppies.  Provided that you can keep the price below $20,000...

Granville Pool <mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net>
Redwood Valley, California, USA
(707) 485-7220 Home, (707) 463-4265 Work
'52, '60, '61, '73, and '74 SWB Land-Rovers and Austin Champ (military 4x4)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 08:12:50 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Slade <SLCN3@cc.usu.edu>
Subject: LR for sale

Here's my Rover for sale:

I've got an '88 for sale in a couple of months.  I've been waiting for my coil
sprung 109 to arrive and bought this one in the interim.
 
Here are the specs:
 
1966 '88, 2.25 petrol (still regular petrol head), tropical roof w/alpine
windows, two inward facing rear seats, OD, Fairey FW hubs, 16' Dunlop Mud Rover
tyres (practically brand new), 61,XXX ORIGINAL miles, it's my daily driver and
just rebuilt the carb last night.  Oh, speaking of carbs, it has a Rochester.
 
Runs great!  Frame, EXCELLENT.  Price, $6500
 
Send inquiries to:
 
Michael Slade
slcn3@cc.usu.edu
801 753 3901

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:19:36 -0500
Subject: Re: LRO Digest

>Since the Series Rovers are seemingly fond of leaking fluids, does that mean
the 'my' Disco eventually will too?

The old series trucks didn't eventually start leaking fluids, they were
incontinent from birth.  Not all at once, mind you, but if it wasn't oil it
was water, or gas, or clutch fluid, or brake fluid.  They took turns.  My RR,
on the other hand, has retained its fluids perfectly (once I replaced the
power stearing pump).  I wouldn't be too concerned with the Disco.  The
series trucks are a world of there own.  No vehicle that I know of has the
personality and quirks of an old Land Rover.  In what other car could you
kill the engine by swearing at it, or get out of an impossible situation with
a few kind words.  You may have to put up with a lot, but they ALWAYS get you
home.

PS:  I've had my IIa for 25 years & 1/3 million miles, and I just past it on
to my son at college.  Still running.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 10:42:13 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: How many Rovers?...

A number of people have speculated about how many "series" Rovers are still
tooling about the US.  I've done a bit a research, and the figures are more
or less confirmed by the folks at Rovers North, Atlantic British and Bruce
at British Rovers (and I'm surprised I could get the first tow to agree on
anything!).  Rover never "officially" imported more that 12,800 vehicles
beteween 1948 and 1974, though for all practical purposes, the start date
was closer to 1954.  (The company record keeping, I might add, was
particularly horrid.)  Add to this another 25% or so imported by
"unofficial" means - i.e., returning military, private folks, your odd
smuggled vehicle, etc.  16,000+- total...that's it.

Of this, maybe 4,000 are on the road today (the number confirmed by the
above sources) with an equal number that could be made road-worthy if
enough time/money were thrown at them.  4,000 vehicles ain't much, folks.
By comparison, there are 35,000 Rolls Royces over here.

Spenny - the ROAV annual dues are *$15* and *such a deal*  You can pay $20,
if you want. ;-)  Quarterly, *on time* issues, though last year, there were
six editions.

As a graduate of Jean-Paul Luc's ice driving school, I'd say success in
snow driving is 50% drivers skill, 25% tires and 25% vehicle.  The best
snow tires are tall, narrow and sharp-shouldered (unless you drive on
glaciers) with an aggressive, self-cleaning tread.  Also important is the
aspect ratio of the vehicle, that is wheel base vs. track width.  By this
definition, the best vehicle would be something like a Greyhound bus - long
and narrow - while the worst is the Suzuki Samurai with a ratio of darn
near 1:1. These things swap ends with wild abandon...and I steer clear of
them.  I once drove all the way into work in 5" of untracked on the median
strip of the Interstate, trying to avoid the idiots playing bumper tag in
the travel lanes.  A jeep pulled out to follow me and he promptly ate a culvert.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 02 Mar 95 07:52:14 PST
From: "Neil E. Villacorta" <FM00VILL@UCSBVM.UCSB.EDU>
Subject:  Ltd.slip ?

Call me dumb: but "why" wouldn't you want limited slip differentials on a
4wd-system, such as a Disco or RR (full-time 4wd/viscous coupling)?

P.S.  Thanks for the invoice/retail posts on the Disco & D90; how the same
      for the RR & RR Classic?

:-) neil
Network Operations Manager
Univ. of Calif. Santa Barbara

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:15:53 -0600
From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)
Subject: Cold running problem - 2.25l petrol with Weber

I'm having a cold weather idle problem. I have a 2.25l petrol engine with a
single barrell weber carb. I can get the engine started just fine and
everything seems okay for about a minute and then no matter how much choke
or no choke I give it it will not hold an idle (at the point in the choke
when it kicks in a higher idle speed the engine will just run rough, miss,
and stall out like the mixture is too rich). High speed running is fine and
there is plenty of power but when I come to stop it usually just stalls.
This can go on until the engine is warm and then it goes away - also I can
drive the truck for a little bit, stop (before it is really warmed up and
still not holding an idle) go do something, come back and it runs just
fine.

After the engine stalls out I can start it right back up and if I sit there
with my foot on the gas all is fine.

Now it seems to me that this problem started in some fashion after I
replaced the gas tank - maybe I got some crud in the idle jet (how do I
check this?). The problem has only gotten worst as I have recently changed
over to a Jacobs OmniPack ignition system and opened the gap up on a new
set of plugs another .005" (so I'm running them at .04" instead of .035").
I'm using champion N-12YC. The FAQ says N-12Y but they only have these
N-12YCs now. Or maybe I should say that the problem has gotten a lot worst
because of the colder weather which really seems to be bringing on this
problem.

I thought with the wider gap on the plugs that they were fouling but it
runs just fine at higher revs. Also when I changed over to the new ignition
system the timing slipped from 6 degress advanced to 15 degrees - as there
was no pinging I just left it there as the engine seems to run fine.

What would you check first. It runs better than it ever has now with all
the changes that I have made except for the cold weather idle problem.

Thanks-

Greg

------------------------------

From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Cold running problem - 2.25l petrol with Weber
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 16:36:16 GMT

Greg,
      I'd set the timing back to stock first of all and then make sure
the carb was not icing due to lack of warm air intake at idle.  I
presume the little four banger has a warm air source (?).  Wouldn't
know from experience as I've only ever driven V8's, which don't need
warm idle air by the way.

Hope this helps,
Steve.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 09:24:55 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: How many Rovers?...

In message <013.04110314.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> MR ALEXANDER P GRICE writes:
> A number of people have speculated about how many "series" Rovers are still
> tooling about the US.  I've done a bit a research, and the figures are more

snip

> Of this, maybe 4,000 are on the road today (the number confirmed by the
> above sources) with an equal number that could be made road-worthy if
> enough time/money were thrown at them.  4,000 vehicles ain't much, folks.

Lets see, by my calculations that means about 1.75% of all the remaining seies 
Land Rovers still on the road in the US made it to the last Portland All British
field meet and about 1.25% make it to the Palo Alto All British car field meet. 
These groups except for one or 2 rigs are mutually exclusive Land Rover 
populations and represent a very small number of the Land Rovers along the coast
from Monterey bay upwards.

What does this signify?  Don't know... but I sure thought there were a lot more 
than 4K on the road.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

From: Spenny@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:25:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Bad Newspam, Good Newspam

Jim writes:
Blahspam, blahspam, blahspam.
snip...
The good newspam is that all those who are on spam waiting 
lists with orders in will NOT be spamject to the price inspamcrease - 
LRNA(SPAM) will absorb the six **hundredspam** bucks for 
LRUK(SPAMUK). Of course, those who were agonizing over a 
purchase decision the past few weeks will unfortunately be 
spamed to the new MSpamRP. 
snip...

BTW after all your whinning about how you dont mark 
stuff up how does this figure?
                   Invoice              MSRP              cost @ MetroWest
Fiberglass Top     $1120               $1400                $2150
yeah, it's tax, no, duty, yeah, duty, for uh, bringing it across 
state lines.

close to 50%, nice margin-
Look, you have a right to make money, as much as you can get,
but be honest about it and quit spamming around.

I dont think he even reads the list. I think he just posts his drivel.
I still want to know who owns the 107...

spenny

------------------------------

From: Spenny@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:25:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale???

Russ writes:
Nigel: 1960 Series II 88, blindsider hardtop, 
snip...
Needs paint (aw, no it doesn't).
Asking $1,000,000.00 US but will settle for $950,000.00
snip...

Russ, I am appalled, $1,000,000.00 for da nige, 

I wouldn't part with the wayback machine for a 
penny under $8,000,000.00 US, 
but I'll offer you $160,000.00 for your rear liftgate...<BG>

Spenny

Spencer K. C. Norcross                               Spenny@aol.com
Haverhill, Mass. USA
508-373-1788 (W)                                508-521-4093 (H)
508-521-1380 (FAX)
===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--===
1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine
Now with most of the Federally requred electrics!

Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway!
What will they think of next!

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Thu, 2 Mar 1995 11:47:57 GMT -0600
Subject:       45 deg. slope! & hydraulic clutches

I've seen the tilt-o-meter photo too. Until you've tried it you can't 
appreciated a 45 degree side slope.  I'm not even crazy about heading 
DOWN a 45 degree slope. Always in the back of my mind is, "I know 
that rear end is going to break loose soon!" But I guess thrills is 
what L/R's are about. It hasn't stopped me.
On the clutch issue, I'm not sure if there was a concern being 
expressed there or not.  I do know that the Jeep J20 we used on the 
farm for hauling wood had a mech. clutch and I hated it. In extreme 
frame twists (all too common) the linkage didn't work. That's great 
fun when you're backed up to a tree with a couple tons of oak in the 
back and you can't get it out of reverse. 'Course it also didn't have 
any brakes, so it was fun all around in the hills of Vermont.
The last time my L/R clutch went I replaced both the master and slave 
cyl., flushed the lines and put in DOW silicone fluid. It's been 
several years and no problems.
Did anyone else see the 90 in the ad (some kind of gum or something) 
during OP Center?

Tom Rowe
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Center for Dairy Research
1605 Linden Dr., Madison, WI 53706
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578
Home:608-243-8660
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 10:00:35 PST
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re: Shocks & springs for 89 Range Rover

Absolutely right Stefan; it's important about the fearsome torque and new nuts
on all the bushings. Actually I've been gradually replacing all mine -- it's
made a big difference. 

One thing I noted on mine is the fact that the A frame on the rear appears to
be splayed enough so the bushes on the chassis end of its arms are both well
off center (I can't recall offhand whether they are both near the inside or outs
outside of the frame). I was curious whether you or anyone else have noticed
the same thing, and whether it's usual.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:11:26 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Why a L-R

I think Gerry may be right, in that you're coming at this from a "normal 
car" point of view.  Nothing wrong with that, but you have to recognize 
that this is *not* a normal car.  It is, indeed, a way of life.  

I never owned a british car prior to the Land Rover; I came from a history 
of my mother's various citroen's (the French should make love, not cars) 
and my '74 Chevy Sportvan 20 -- named Sweet Pea.  Best high performance 
sports car in the sate; never lost a race.  Not terribly normal.  

My girlfriend has a normal car, a Mazda 323, bought new.  Blech.  But it 
gets us places.  My younger brother has a '74 Camaro (bought a couple years 
ago) in primer grey, and a beat-up Subaru Brat.  My youngest sister has an 
'85? Subaru wagon, with straps to hold down the bonnet, and more rust than 
the titanic.  (Still, it got her cross country SF <--> RI several times.)  
Mostly not normal cars.  

If you've ever seen another vehicle (other than at a car meet or club) that 
looks a lot like yours, chances are it's a normal car.  Nothing wrong with 
that; there are lots of times I wish I had a normal car.  

But that's not why one buys a Land Rover.  You buy a Land Rover because it 
*is* quirky.  You buy it so you can make jokes about Lucas Electrics, and 
then feel smug when your non-LR friends make fun of your electrical 
problems.  

It's like getting a dog or a cat.  Sure, there are some people who examine 
the various characteristics of different breeds, and select one based on 
the benefit/drawback ratios, but most people go out, find a dog they like, 
take him home, and make him part of the family.  That's what you have to do 
with a Land Rover.  

Perhaps the best thing to do is buy a cheap one that runs (mostly) and 
drive it around for a bit, much around with the insides, then decide if 
it's taken over your life or not.  If it has, restore it or sell it and buy 
one all fixed up.  

And thanks for being a good sport!  You'll make a good Rover owner if you 
get one, and if not, I'll still wave to you.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:11:32 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: March LRO already?

> Internet Relay Chat.  Its a real time interactive talk session via 
> computer. think of it as a typed N party line where N can be very large 
> (or as small as 2)

Actually, you can have one with only one person, but they have to be kinda 
weird.  <g>  Not that I would do that, of course.

Anyway, it's a lot like the CB feature on Compuserve -- which of course is 
a computerized version of a CB.  Everyone talks (types) and everyone else 
tuned to that channel hears (sees) everyone's comments.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                                    
sinasohn@crl.com                               "Less guns than most Daves!"
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:17:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: How many Rovers?...

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, MR ALEXANDER P GRICE wrote:

> A number of people have speculated about how many "series" Rovers are still
> tooling about the US.  I've done a bit a research, and the figures are more
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> "unofficial" means - i.e., returning military, private folks, your odd
> smuggled vehicle, etc.  16,000+- total...that's it.

	What makes this difficult for Canada is:
	- Rover had no representation in the USA until the 1950's
	- When they started in N.A. they were based in Canada, 
	- Before this that Land Rovers were sold via Rootes in Canada
	- 1,000's of vehicles were purchased by the provincial & federal
	  governments, and by mining, oil & gas companies direct from
	  the factory into the U.K. where these groups then shipped them
	  to Canada. (Officially)
	- The British army has left a "few" here.
	- Add the unofficial numbers to the above.
	- Figure out why there are not a few pre-1954 vehicles running
	  around in Canada.
	- Look at Taylor's little addition in LRO last month(?) on how many
	  Series III's were produced and how his total was way out of
	  line of the official figures (BTW, March LRO arrived Monday :-))

	This total is skewed and we will probably never know the total
	that came over here.

> Of this, maybe 4,000 are on the road today (the number confirmed by the
> above sources) with an equal number that could be made road-worthy if
> enough time/money were thrown at them.  4,000 vehicles ain't much, folks.
> By comparison, there are 35,000 Rolls Royces over here.

	What is more interesting is to accept the 12,800 figure above and 
	them look at LRNA's sales figures for 1994...  4,000 still on the 
	road?  Who knows...  Probably correct, though there is no way to
	really know.

	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:23:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale???

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995 Spenny@aol.com wrote:

> Russ, I am appalled, $1,000,000.00 for da nige, 
> I wouldn't part with the wayback machine for a 
> penny under $8,000,000.00 US, 
> but I'll offer you $160,000.00 for your rear liftgate...<BG>
none

	Careful, he's peddling damaged goods.  I understand he washed
	da 'Nige about ten years ago...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Mar 95 10:37:53 -0800
Subject: re: axle straps
From: Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo)

Subject: Re: Axle Straps

Russell G. Dushin writes:

> And I've been told the opposite.....remove them and in serious off road
> situations you increase the risk of a rollover.  Their purpose is to
> limit body roll (by keeping the axles at some maximum distance from the
> frame).
none

Those axles would have to be awfully heavy to prevent the vehicle from
tipping.

No, the axle straps are simply there to keep your axles from moving so
far from the frame that the restricting factor becomes the length of the
shock absorber at full extension.  When this happens you place a lot of
stress on the shock mounts which were not designed to put up with that
kind of abuse.  They'll break off eventually.  Having said that, I think
this kind of danger is quite slim unless you jump your vehicle a lot or
partake in severe rock-crawling which usually leaves one wheel hanging
in the air while the wheel on the other side of the axle is pressed
firmly into your wheel wells.

...lars

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:55:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Morgan Hannaford <morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale???

BAY AREA LAND ROVERS FOR SALE:

from the S.F. Chronicle.

1964 109 2 door, tropical top  $5K  510-827-1994

1967 109 6cyl. Koenig PTO  $7.5K  408-625-8114 or 408-625-8166

Lightweight Air Portable 88", ex RAF - Overdrive $10K
209-754-5802 or 209-754-1256

The latter two are in the collector cars section, so these folks
think they have an oil well, not an oil leaker, in their drive.

Ciao,

Morgan
U.C. Berkeley

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:20:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Cold running problem - 2.25l petrol with Weber

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Greg Hiner wrote:

> What would you check first. It runs better than it ever has now with all
> the changes that I have made except for the cold weather idle problem.

	You list of woes sounds exactly like mine.  However we have determined
	the problem in the big green beastie is a distributor shaft that could
	more accurately be described as being in orbit.  So long as the
	distributor shaft is way out of line, you will get the irregular
	running pattern you describe.  Something else for you to take
	a quick look at...

	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 19:54:47 +0100
From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia)
Subject: Re: Leanness, Dash Lites, spinning in snow, LR education

Re: interior mounting of radios, etc

A very nice design study is presented in LRO (march '95) for a new Defender
90" dash.  One of the more impressive articles I've seen in LRO in recent
months content wise, almost makes me hopeful for the next issue.

-------------------------
Re: land rover training:

Land Rover itself:
  1-day 110GBP/day, one day and two day programs choices of current production
        rovers (best off with the one you drive, eh !)
--------------------------
>Robin writes:
>>Is it in the march 95 issue of LRO?
>*March?!?*  Arrgghh!  I just got February!!!
none

Yes robin the collectors article (and a couple other notes with canadian
references are in the March issues (which I finished reading...)
-----------------
Re: Leanness
>> 2.  The folks at Turner say the single Barrel Weber's run too lean.  Is this
>> true?  I have a rebuilt Zenith (new throttle bushings!). should I use this?
>> I could jet the Weber richer if we know what jet to use!

>        When I got my smog check done, I was running a little rich.

 yeah, but that is idle to moderate speeds, fuel delivery usually is plentiful,
leanness is often more a problem until higher revs (like my friend's Milano
which ran fine until he opened it up on the track and then he holed a piston,
and, damn, did it twice before they took to the injector...
----------------------------------------------
Re: Dash Lights:

>Anybody got any cross reference numbers for those little pesky light bulbs
>in the dash on the IIA. I'm talking about the cold start, oil pressure,
>high beam, and alternator lights. Can I pick those up at any auto parts
>store or must I go to Rovers North?

Check out a line-card for automotive and industrial lamps - as in GE or
Sylvania..

you'll need to know the base style (screw, single contact), the globe style
(S-# for spherical & # for globe diameter), etc.  to match it up.  Try a
Graybar catalog (ought to be one in the back of any electonics workshop)
---------------------------------------
Re: spinning in snow:

brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) writes:
>Most likely ... was still in 2WD??

yeah but then it still comes down to driver idiocy or lack of tyres, which
is (IMNSHO) still driver idiocy....

With four hakkapeliittas on my Ford XR4Ti (Sierra/Merkur - RWD, open diff,
with a tempermental turbocharged 2.3l] I've passed anything on the road in
snow, and on sheet ice*.  With stock ride height that car was good for
about 4-5"
of snow before you had to worry about clearance effects...

* Except at the ice trials, but then that wasn't on the road, and _averaging_
  38mph on a _cleared_ frozen lake _circuit_ doesn't suck does it ?
-----------------------------
Re: LR education

taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) writes:

>To all the people with Series I's outfitted like I said would be stupid...

>You know what I mean.  I didn't mean to be specific.

        but you should be more specific...at least in your questions...

Well, maybe taylor, you've got to stop 'virtually' investigating land rovers,
and go and really investigate land rovers.  Actually use other, more complete
sources of information than just the people here (like a couple dozen of
the books listed in the FAQ), after all you are a college boy aren't you, I
mean,
clemson does have a library, and probably has interlibrary loan, and there
must be some books out there they can retrieve that have landrovers in them...

people generally don't mind being asked questions, but it begins to get
damn annoying when it feels like the person asking the question isn't
venturing any further than their armchair (keyboard) before coming
up with the next one...  Part of my job is training other people
how to do things, but in that situation, it is a lot more rewarding
to have the person come back with the next more difficult problem
than to repeat the same (level of) problem again and again...

[and sometimes you have shown progress in the difficulty of your questions]

It doesn't help that half of what you asked is pretty well covered in the
FAQ and WEB pages (kinda shows that you've haven't done your homework)

So continue your quest for a land rover education, do some reading, get
some copies of the magazine, abuse your interlibrary loan desk, and please,
do ask
us more questions, but if they're less general and more specific, maybe after
you've seen one close up and looked at a bunch that are for sale, you can
progress from the virtual or theoretical (dare I say academic) to the real
world...

By now you should have figured that any question you ask that is subjective
will get both pro and con answers, and it comes down to user preference,
and you won't form your preferences by asking questions, only by experiences,
you know, observation and experimentation...

RTFM (the faq, the web notes, the LR history books, repair books)

Then apply the scientific method to observing the real thing and coming to
your own conclusions...
---------------------------------------
Re: spinning in snow:

brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) writes:
>Most likely ... was still in 2WD??

yeah but then it still comes down to driver idiocy or lack of tyres, which
is (IMNSHO) still driver idiocy....

With four hakkapeliittas on my Ford XR4Ti (Sierra/Merkur - RWD, open diff,
with a tempermental turbocharged 2.3l] I've passed anything on the road in
snow, and on sheet ice*.  With stock ride height that car was good for
about 4-5"
of snow before you had to worry about clearance effects...

* Except at the ice trials, but then that wasn't on the road, and _averaging_
  38mph on a _cleared_ frozen lake _circuit_ doesn't suck does it ?

    Cheers,
        --bill  caloccia@Team.Net       caloccia@Stratus.Com

      1  3     dl OD  L           "Land Rover's first, becuase
      |--|--+  o  |   |            Land Rovers last."
      2  4  R     N   H           '72 Range Rover

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Mar 95 14:49:09 EST
From: "Lapa, Hank" <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com>
Subject: Disco MSRP

     All,
     
     Just confirmed with my two local dealers that the new, $600 higher 
     MSRP on Disco took effect......yesterday, March 1st.  Was this a big 
     secret by LRNA or did dealers know in advance (days, weeks)?  
     
     Oh well, this affects me, and I *would've* put my deposit down by last 
     Monday had I had warning or clue.  Anyway, I'm all the more determined 
     NOT to get my brush bar, mats, jump seats, CD, etc., from dealer.  RN 
     and ABP are both sending me their Disco equip lists.
     
     Live and learn (live and pay),
     Hank  :-(
     
     P.S.,  One dealer says 1-2 month wait, the other says 3-6 months.  Do 
     all dealers get their L-Rs in the same manner?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 12:26:20 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale???

In message <950302122541_37080800@aol.com>  writes:
> Russ writes:
> Nigel: 1960 Series II 88, blindsider hardtop, 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
> Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway!
> What will they think of next!

Spenny,
I would be happy to sell you both top and lower parts of the tailgate off The 
Green Rover for US$160,000.  I would even be happy to throw in my extra set of 
tail 7 turn signal assemblies and 2 window sides for a 109 2 door top

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 12:43:57 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Why a L-R

In message <199503021811.AA05033@crl5.crl.com> Roger Sinasohn writes:
> I think Gerry may be right, in that you're coming at this from a "normal 
> car" point of view.  Nothing wrong with that, but you have to recognize 
> that this is *not* a normal car.  It is, indeed, a way of life. 

huh?
 

> But that's not why one buys a Land Rover.  You buy a Land Rover because it 
> *is* quirky. 

Oh?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
> sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
> San Francisco, California

Good Golly!  Is this true?

I've owned the The Green Rover since '78 and I had not realized it was not a 
normal car or that it was unusually quirky (Are you sure this is the case?).

My Land Rover is a lot like my other cars.  Even has several of the same parts 
though it seems to have a few more parts in common with the TR3 than with the 
MGB.

land Rovers not normal cars?  Hmmm 

Are you shure?

I mean really positive?

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 16:25:32 -0500
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: RR US Prices

Ok, ok, but this is the LAST one:
(don't even THINK of asking me to look up a jeep)

                   Invoice              Retail

County Classic     $39850               $45000
Long Wheelbase     $46500               $52500
4.0SE              $47825               $54000

County Classic     $400                 $500
Light Stone Interior

CA Emissions       $100                 $100

Bulooogaa Black    $250                 $300

RH Starting Crank  $12                  $23.74

LH Starting Crank  $14                  $97.32
(SF only)

LH Fan (SF only)   $37                  $56.14

Grey Poupon        $4.95                $68.95
Mustard Holder

French's Golden    $4.95                $18.50
Mustard Holder

Dest               $625                 $625

Have fun.

Bill

maloney@wings.attmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 16:54:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: RR US Prices

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, maloney wrote:

> Ok, ok, but this is the LAST one:

	Here are the Canadian suggested retail (from Land Rover Canada)

                    Invoice              Retail        Canada (in US$**)

 1994 Defender 90                                      33,800 (24,165)

 1995 Disco 5 passenger, cloth, manual                 41,900 (29,954)
            5 passenger, cloth, auto                   43,575 (31,151)
            5 passenger, leather, auto                 45,375 (32,438)
            7 passenger, leather, auto, sunroofs       48,995 (35,026)
 
 County Classic     $39850               $45000        65,900 (47,111)
 Long Wheelbase     $46500               $52500        73,930 (52,852)
 4.0SE              $47825               $54000        79,900 (57,120)

 * Canadian prices do not include PST or GST, but include P.D.I., air
   conditioning excise tax and freight.  Dealers are under no obligation to
   comply with the "suggested retail" price.

 ** Canadian Dollar is worth .7149 cents U.S. as of Wednesday.  It has
    been nearer the 70 cent level until the latest Federal budget that
    chopped Federal spending quite a bit up here.

 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 18:17:08 -0500
From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner)
Subject: An embarrassing day!

Set out early this morning in the Rover to help a friend at Camp Fortune
with the race timing for the Junior National Cross Country Ski Races. When
I arrived at Camp Fortune I noticed JEEP signs everywhere. OK, not so bad!
Parked the Rover and went to the timing hut to see my friend. He says to me
"Before you start check in at the volunteer trailer, for a jacket and
hat!". I then noticed that everyone was nicely color coordinated in
"tourquise and purple" gear. I check in at the volunteer hut, and they hand
me a baseball cap with "ski JEEP" on it and a jacket with "ski JEEP" in
BIG, BOLD letters across the back. No there was no way I could wear it
inside out. It was a good thing that the Rover was parked down the hill and
didn't see me put it on!@  Best of all I had to turn it in at the end of
the day, and didn't have to keep it hidden in the closet!

To fellow OVLR members, do you think there is anyway that we could convince
anyone at Land Rover Canada to sponsor a Land Rover or Range Rover for this
type of event? Apparently there were 3 JEEP Cherokees which had been
sponsored and were being used as shuttle buses.

Noticed when I got back home that the Rover was dripping oil from the cross
member under the gearbox (Surprize!). It definitely smells like synthetic
gear oil, not engine oil. Would the likely culprit be the front oil seal on
the gearbox?

Cheers!
 Richard

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 18:27:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: LRO Digest

Lucky Joe ponders...
> As a potential Discovery owner, I've been reading the digest with much
none
..........snip.......... 
> One thing that has kept me guessing is the longevity of the newer Land
> Rovers. Will a DIsco or Defender still be an the road in 25 years? Since
> the Series Rovers are seemingly fond of leaking fluids, does that mean
> the 'my' Disco eventually will too?

Anything can be made to last 25 years if it is properly maintained. From
what some people have said, it *may* take a bit more of that "proper"
maintenance for a new Rover than for one of the Series models. And YES, it
will probably leak, and have electrical problems... After all, it's the
heritage....   :-)

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale???
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 19:28:56 EST

> On Thu, 2 Mar 1995 Spenny@aol.com wrote:
none
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> 	Careful, he's peddling damaged goods.  I understand he washed
> 	da 'Nige about ten years ago...

Lies, lies, lies.

Heckfire, Dixon, I've only owned Nigel for about 3 years or so.  Only
washed his underbelly for the fall's waxoyling.  I let rain do the
rest.  And as for the farm rig (aka RoverRoach), which has been owned
since new ('67), hell, it's never had a bath, 'cept in horse urine.

Wash my rover? No.  Proud? Yes.

$160K for the tailgate?  Throw in a Disco and we'll call it a deal!

rd/nige

------------------------------

Date: 02 Mar 95 20:00:09 EST
From: mark c ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com>
Subject: Disco mods

Hello to those on Rover-Net. I am looking for some info on what sort of 
modifications folks have been making to their Discovery"s such as winches,
more serious off road tires and locking diffs. I own a 94 disco and frequently
off road in the mountains of north Georgia. Using a GPS reciever I have found 
several good trails not on the quad maps, and have plotted them on these maps.
I would like to here from some other rover owners as to what types of events 
their clubs hold as our small group here is looking at putting together some
events.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 20:07:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Gregory Brown <brow7767@mstr.hgc.edu>
Subject: Universal Joints

Ouch I just got a price from BP of $45 fro a single universal joint.  
Does anyone have a good alternative to this very pricey part?  BP 
indicated that Land Rover has switched suppliers and this is the result.  
I have the smaller 2 15/16 u-joints.  Currently the machine is parked 
since the u-joint just barely got me home from a trip to New Hampshire.

Also does anyone have any more info on the DAP Britsh Rovers situation?  
I can not get ahold of Bruce and DAP has a message saying they are 
relocating to Springfield, VT.

Cheers,
Greg Brown
'71 Series IIA 88 w/OD but spinning air!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 19:20:31 -0500
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: Triple C Stuff, etc.

Yesterday I got most of the stuff I ordered from Triple C in CA. The Solido is
a 3" III 109 wagon in dark green (can't believe what I paid for it).  The door
opens in the back, but it's too small to get Barbie & Bambi in the back.  
About the only thing you could get in the door is Pee Wee's hand.  But I guess
with Pee Wee, that's all you need.  

I saw the Land Rover Story video as soon as I got it.  Fun stuff with all 
kinds of Rovers mostly on trials courses and off road situations.  Dixon, 
there's even a segment on 101s.  I'm glad I bought it.

The Anything You Can Do video is almost as fun.  It is good in that it shows 
good examples of normal British life.  Like the farmers doing their stuff in 
jackets & ties,  The average housewife finding the series I a comfortable 
convenient mode of transportation, gas being pumped by attractive attendants 
in white smocks, heels & pearls, and those randy old farmers chasing their 
cows around with their Land Rovers.  Guess they haven't gotten to cow tipping 
yet.

---------------------

I also got that Matchbox Fire Tender from Matchbox.  I'm really amazed at the 
level of detail.  Even the catches on the hood are painted.

------------------------

Re: Dixon's Canadian price posts.  It sounds like it's cheaper to go up there 
and purchase a new Rover than to pick it up down here.  Very interesting 
stuff.

Bill

maloney@wings.attmail.com

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Universal Joints 
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 17:27:19 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.950302195949.6644A-100000@sd2.hgc.edu>you wrote:

> Ouch I just got a price from BP of $45 fro a single universal joint.  

	Ouch.  when mine went I went down to NAPA autoparts.  We got out
the universal book and looked up the Spicer equivilant. (all you have to
do is match the measurements)   As I recall the part was about $10 or $12.  

>From the FAQ (should point you in the right directions):
                    Land Rover  2 15/16" from cap top to cap top  RTC3291
                                3 7/32"  from cap top to cap top  RTC3346
                    Precision   1948-62                           344
                                1963-76                           369
                    Spicer      1954-59                           5-4x
                                1969-71                           5-153x

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications International Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 17:55:58 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: Universal Joints

> Ouch I just got a price from BP of $45 fro a single universal joint.  
> Does anyone have a good alternative to this very pricey part?  BP 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> Greg Brown
> '71 Series IIA 88 w/OD but spinning air!!!!

Any US auto parts store will have the U-joint. It is older Chevy truck part.

AEC504 is a number that should cross ref.

Take the old one with you as a check. Should cost about $10-15 US.

R, bg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 20:22:04 -0600 (CST)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Camel Trophy

I have all the races from 1987.  Does anyone have the ones before this 
especially 1983, the one in which the Netherlands won using the Ser III 
88?  I could trade copies.  I just got 1994.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 20:47:09 PST
Subject: Re: 	Disco price protection

Just learned today that LRNA is offering price protection on DISCOVERY orders 
through March 10th. This as a followup to the news that there was a $600 price 
hike on 3/1.

Hopefully this information will be of some positive use for any potential 
DISCO buyers who were close to placing an order.

Cheerz
Jim
Roverheadus calamitus incendiatum

------------------------------

Date: 03 Mar 95 01:37:40 EST
From: "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com>
Subject: Ohhh Ahhhh some interesting Land Rovers

This is what we have acquired this month (on consignment of course!):

 1955 Series I Truck Cab Fire Tender, low mileage, all red "Army Fre Service"

 1960 Series II Truck Cab petrol w/ overdrive, free wheeling hubs, resprayed
green, spotlights

 1955 Series I 107" Truck cab - Blue, good condition

 1952 80" Series I Truck cab excellent condition

 1950 Soft top 2 litre chassis up rebuild

 1967 County style SWB - 7 seater, hard top with windows

 There are others, but these kind of looked interesting.

 Eat your hearts out guys....

 Leslie

 U.K. Land Rovers Import/Export Co.
 813-954-4304

 "Call for more info"

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 


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