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From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Lorry marketing
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 08:42:22 UNDEFINED

> are playing up the Status angle...and successfully getting market share by
> charging too much. 

/
/Uh, well, as a marketing guy I have to take you to task for this comment. 
/IMCO, LR has built an enviable brand position with the Range Rover and is now 
/leveraging that investment with reasonably priced products (for the most part)

When LR opened up in the States, I was gobsmacked at the prices. Having just 
been there adn noticed how everything (vehicles included) cost half as much, 
it was astonishing to see that LRs cost half as much AGAIN as here! And that 
90s which are work tools (like shovels) here, are status symbols there! They'd 
have to be - no-one but an obsessive would buy one at those prices, relative 
to the competition! (LR are having  hard time with teh Japs here, where the 
Jap stuff is only slightly cheaper.......)

The marketingprats have made a great job of convincing everyone that a sow's 
ear is a silk purse. I guess LR are laughing all the way to the bank.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: LR on TV Tonite
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 9:06:49 GMT

Just in case the UK contingent havent noticed yet,the
BBC2 series "The Cars The Star" returns tonight at 10.10pm
featuring,this week,the Land Rover.
Whoever it is doing the Famous Owners List,can add Tom Conti
and his 107" Station Wagon.
I'll tape this one as well, I think!
Cheers
Mike Rooth
PS Sorry Bill,I've forgotten the magic formula to limit to UK
only.

------------------------------

From: "Eric Desmond (III)" <c1ac@dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: New Boy!
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:24:46 GMT

 Hello chaps! 
 I thought a quick intro would be good. 
 I'm a computer science student at DMU. Roger, my SIIA was, sob, sold
recently. I'm saving up for a 90 TurboDiesel or even Tdi. Thoughts about these
cars would be good. The main use would be  for some off-roading but also the
100mile  trip back home to sunny Skegness. I have a 91 metro at the moment,
and it is not the same (Not 4wd for a start...). Lincolnshire Land Rover  
and Leicester + Rutland (soon) have the pleasure of having me as a member.

Thanks
	Eric Desmaond.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 12:08:05 +0000
From: Steve Firth <steve@firthcom.demon.co.uk>
Subject:  Question about DI petrol engines..

Ian Stuart asked....

>A friend and I have a disagreement about fuel injected petrol engines..
>He says that they don't use spark plugs and I say that they do - is he
>right?

My other car has GTi written on the back, it uses spark plugs and has Bosch
fuel injection. I guess that settles it.

>Are there any petrol engines that don't use spark plugs (once their
>running..)?

Several, but none I think in current use on vehicles. I can remember in a
copy of "Braithwaites Retrospectives in Surgery, 1910" a description of the
ideal car for a country doctor. They recommended it should have an
evaporating wick carburettot and a hot-tube ignition system. These were
platinum tubes, heated initially by burning petrol in a tray under the end
of the tube, then heated by the combustion in the engine to provide a
"glow" source of ignition in subsequent power cycles. Apparently the clever
doctor keeps the tubes in the grill pan of the oven on a low heat to ensure
that theya re always ready for use.

Some stationary low compresion petrol engines used as sources of power in
workshops and for generators used a pilot light with a sliding valve to
convey a "box of flame" from the pilot light to the cylinder.

--
Steve Firth '81 SIII 109" 2.25 petrol Safari.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 12:04:07 +0001 (GMT)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Pathfinder vs. Discovery

This is from experience, but I don't want to start another mindless 
"mine's better" exchange. Just my 2 cents (pence) worth.

I have a tatty 1970 109 diesel Landrover here in Britain.  My brother has
a 1987 V6 Pathfinder (black on black with extra buttons and black
indicators that light up black on a black dashboard... ;-)) in Austin,
Texas.  You couldn't make me trade with him for the world.  The Pathfinder
is very 'pretty' and is fine for cruising 6th Street, but take it off road
at your own risk (I have... and that was just to get 'round some
traffic... big mistake). 

Now extrapolate my 25 year old 109 to a 1995 Discovery, and if I had the 
cash, I wouldn't think twice about the Pathfinder.  In fact, if I didn't 
have the cash (as I don't) I wouldn't think twice about the Pathfinder.  
I'd buy another Series IIa.

Charlie

C. R. Wright                                    Dept. of Genetics
+44 (0)1223 333970 telephone                    Univ. of Cambridge
+44 (0)1223 333992 telefax                      Downing Street, Cambs.
cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk                        CB2 3EH, England

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Pathfinder vs. Discovery
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 12:40:28 GMT

Er,Charlie,
Whats a Pathfinder?
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Weber carb slow running
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 08:26:00 EST

Miss Golightly, my 1962  88 SWB has a Weber carb on her 2324cc (+0.030) 
engine and I have a problem with the slow running mixture. Adjustment of the 
idle setting doesn't produce any significant changes in idle speed. Even 
screwing it right in won't stop the engine, it just stalls if the throttle 
is opened slowly, therefore I think its too weak here.Turning the screw out 
three turns results in no change in speed until I step on the brake and then 
the rush of air from the servo (Leaks?) causes an increase in speed, so it 
must be too rich at this setting. Disconnection of the vacuum line to the 
servo and plugging it makes no difference. A vacuum gauge holds a steady 
reading as the screw is turned in and out. How do I find the correct 
setting? Anyone else have the same problem? Suggestions Please.(Normal 
operation is fine whatever the setting. Loads of torque, good performance 
(Roverwise) and good gas mileage. Ignition is Crane Allison electronic and 
set at 4.5 before TDC)

------------------------------

Date: 17 Feb 95 09:31:16 EST
From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Grilling on the Grille

>> Is there an MD on this list that can confirm this? 
>> I thought that Zinc was good for you! Someone tell me you've done this
>> for 30 years and you're fine! I'm a little worried! :-o

I am not a doctor but I play one on tv....

The Zinc is not the problem, and is a mineral that is good for health (and for
keeping the yang up, to quote the chinese).  

However, Zinc Oxide is another matter.  Zinc oxide is created when zinc is
exposed to the air and is quite nasty, from what I understand.  Like any metal,
zinc is shiny when first exposed, but quickly dulls to a light, mottled gray as
oxide forms.  The oxide coating the grille would make it inadvisable for
cooking...

You get a lot of zinc in oysters, BTW (which is why they have the reputation
they do, or at least so I have read.)    

Cheers, 

R. P. Reid

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:47:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: roll bars (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:56:09 -0500
From: Jeff Berg <berg@acf2.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: roll bars

On Thu, 16 Feb 1995, C Taylor Sutherland III wrote:

>> Delimma:  want to switch between hard top in winter to soft top in
>> spring, summer, fall, but with a soft top, I want a roll bar, but I
>> can't have a roll bar and still have a hard top on an 88" SIIA, can I?

and Dixon responded:

>        Get a military rollbar.  Fits under the hard top.

To which I add:

This isn't true in all cases.  The double hoop style NATO roll bar (or at
least the one that was originally slated to be mounted on my Rover)
interferes with the hard top.  I ended up having a bar fabricated.  If the
weather stays decent this weekend I'll pull the canvas (my hardtop is still
being painted) and take a few snaps which can be posted to the WEB page or
posted off to anyone who cares.

Can't really say whether or not you really need one, but it does make me
feel a bit more secure and I sort of like the look, poser that I am.

Taylor again:

>> I know soft tops can get cold in the winter, but I am in S.C. so cold
>> isn't unbearable cold for very long if I get the better heater, right?

My two cents:

As my hard top hasn't been completed yet I've been roughing it here in
NY/CT with the soft top.  While I can't honestlu say that my Kodiak (that's
the heavy duty heater Taylor) makes the cab toasty, it does for the most
part take the chill off.

I'll qualify this, for the thin blooded, by saying that we haven't exactly
had a bitter winter, and that I'm originally from a bit further north, so
I'm not as bothered by cold/wet/snow as some around here.  I think you can
live with just a soft top, though significant others of the "wrong sort"
might complain a bit.  I've ordered a hard top primarily to reduce winter
wear and tear on the soft top.

Okay, so you got a nickel's worth...

Regards.

JAB

==                                                                 ==
 Jeffrey A. Berg              Interactive Telecommunications Program
 Technical Administrator                         New York University
                          berg@acf2.nyu.edu
                          =================
               My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
          My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
                       Taste for the good life.
                      I can see it no other way.
                           --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)
==                                                                 ==

------------------------------

From: JFisk1120@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:54:44 -0500
Subject: Pacing the floor!

Marcus.....anxiously awaiting the arrival of our latest Rover addition!!
 Can't wait!  

Jan Fisk
"I brake for mud puddles"
Springfield, Missouri

1964 Land Rover
1991 Range Rover
and...TBA!!!!!

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:06:57 -0500
Subject: Re:  Best Rover? (how to start a fight?)

Real Rovers have metal dashboards!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:06:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Grilling on the Grille

On 17 Feb 1995, Pierce Reid wrote:

> >> Is there an MD on this list that can confirm this? 
> >> I thought that Zinc was good for you! Someone tell me you've done this
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> zinc is shiny when first exposed, but quickly dulls to a light, mottled gray as
> oxide forms.  The oxide coating the grille would make it inadvisable for
> cooking...
 Not to be too much of a smart ass but....any of you folks ever hear of 
this great new thing called aluminium foil??  It works great!   ;)
 

cooking trout on the '67 IIa grill
(with aluminium foil)

Russ

------------------------------

From: "DAVE MCKAIN" <MCKAIN@faculty.coe.wvu.edu>
Date:          Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:23:16 EDT
Subject:       Zinc Oxide/Rochester

Grilling on the Grill?
I know three things for sure.
1) Zinc oxide is the stuff you put on your nose to help keep it from 
geeting sunburnt.
2) Zinc vapors can be hazardous to your health if inhaled (as Slick 
Willy)
3) The temperature of you cooking fire and the presence of oxygen 
will probably result in the rapid oxidation of the zinc and not the 
release of zinc fumes to the atmosphere.

Question? I have a Rochester 1 bbl carb-u-rator (UK) on my 2 1/4 liter petrol 
(aftermarket I guess) and would like to get any comments on 
performance (hp, not economy - gas is cheap in the US) vs. the 
Zenith, Weber and Solex Carb-er-rater (US).  
David McKain            mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu
540 Burroughs St.       (304) 599-0120
Morgantown, WV  26505
USA                     1966 Ser IIA Petrol

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:35:10 -0500
Subject: Rag Tops

>> I know soft tops can get cold in the winter, but I am in S.C. so cold
>> isn't unbearable cold for very long if I get the better heater, right?

I live in Wisconsin (-100 WC last winter) and have driven nothing but a
canvas top for 25 years.  It was freezing with the old Smiths heater, but 5
years ago I installed a Mansfield from Rover's North.  It's a regular
furnace.  Perfectly adequate for serious sub-zero weather.  The only chill
you'll have will be from direct -50 drafts blowing through the cracks on the
side of your head.  You'll break a sweat with one in the Carolina's.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 10:28:59 EST
From: William Dan Terry <wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com>
Subject: Re: D-90 performance

Pierce,

Look to TVR Engineering Ltd in Blackpool, England. TVR is a 
handbuilt sportscar, very capable, very fun. Been around about as 
long as LR. Had a '74 as my only car for a few years.

They have been using the Rover V8 for their cars for some 10 years. 
They have gotten very good at modifying them. I've even seen an ad 
in a Brit car zine where you can get a RR with a TVR done engine. 
They've gotten the engine out to 4.9 liters and 300bhp.

There is also one aftermarket supercharger called Sprintex (if I 
remember) which works well on the Rover V8. It's a screw type 
compressor (two giant screw-like shafts side by side so that the 
threads "mesh" with each other), very low profile. Would fit under 
the hood I think.

Peace, Bill

_____W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______

  How do we acquire wisdom   wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com
  along with all these            MINERVA Development Team
  shiney things? (David Brin)       Booz, Allen & Hamilton 
_____ __ __ __ __ __ __ _____ __ __ _____ __ __ __ __ ______
     W  i  l  l  i  a  m     D  a  n     T  e  r  r  y

------------------------------

From: Harold_Wanebo@postoffice.brown.edu
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:55:56 -0500
Subject: RR EFI and bad seats

>I have a 1988 Range Rover and the EFI light has come on. 
>Also do the power seats have anytype of manual override.

Guy,
My 87 has had the seat problem.  Its usually just the switch.  Most of the 
time relatively violent operation on the switch 10 to 20 times corrects the 
problem.  I have taken the switch apart once and sprayed it with electronic 
contact cleaner.  It hasn't failed since.  I'm sure you can disconnect the 
wires and figure out which ones you have to connect to each other to move 
the seat.  A wiring diagram would come in handy if you can get one.  There 
is no manual method that I know of.  When mine went bad, my 5 year old son 
was playin with the seat and raked it all the way forward, making it 
impossible for a grown-up to fit in.  I got mad at the switch at that point 
and punched it with my fist!  That worked!
The EFI light will come on for quite a few reasons having to do with the EFI 
system.  There's a complex balance of resistances from various sensors that 
are required for EFI to work.  almost any of them could turn the light on.  
First thing is to check electrical connections.  Unfortunately, the best way 
to find the problem is to go to a dealer, (or make friends with a dealer 
mechanic) and have them plug in the little diagnostic computer to your 
brain.  It tells them where to look and how to fix it.  I think this is 
cheating!  That device works so well I think it should be included in a 
standard RR owners tool kit!

Michael Yablonski  (E-mail harold_wanebo@brown.edu)
Pascoag, RI
'87 RR

------------------------------

From: Harold_Wanebo@postoffice.brown.edu
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 11:14:21 -0500
Subject: Camel Trophy

I'm relatively new on the digest and i've read quite a few stories about 
this Camel Trophy.  Can someone tell me what it is and what it is all about? 
 Some history maybe?
thanx

Michael Yablonski  (e-mail harold_wanebo@brown.edu)
Pascoag, RI
'87 RR

------------------------------

From: Harold_Wanebo@postoffice.brown.edu
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 11:15:56 -0500
Subject: re:re:why a LR

Richard,
Just wanted to say high.

There must be some similarity between people at a genetic level that 
determines what they drive.  My first car was a '62 healey 3000 which I 
restored then drove to death.  I sold it cheap and about 6 years later saw 
it on the road again!. I knew it was mine cause the carpets matched my dad's 
kitchen, and the lousy welding job I did after breaking a rear leaf spring 
which came up thru the floor behind the passenger seat.  It was in a parking 
lot and I just had to look.  My two present vehicles are '87 Range Rover and 
'89 Volvo. 

Michael Yablonski  (e-mail harold_wanebo@brown.edu)
Pascoag Rhode Island, USA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 17:15:28 +0200 (METDST)
From: S|ren Vels Christensen <velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: Re: US Camel Trials report 

On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, T.F. Mills wrote:
     
-------[snip]------------
      
> Germany, Italy, South Africa and UK.  Which begs the question:  why isn't 
> OVLR fielding a team?!  And our friends from Oz?  And Soren Aurens, the 
> one-man Danish team?  You guys would have the edge -- most Camel 
--------[snip]------ 
> T. F. Mills                                              tomills@du.edu
> University of Denver Library  2150 E. Evans Ave.  Denver  CO 80208  USA
>       http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction)

Two good reasons:

1. Proffesional soldiers cannot participate.

2. For a guy who thinks that the interior extravaganza of a 110 looks like
a whorehouse, driving a disco would be a luxury cruise. (Easy to say with 
ref. to no. 1 :-)

Honest, - could be fun though.

sv/aurens

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 08:21:38 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Newf

In message <950216202503_23755259@aol.com>  writes:
> <OK you got me, what's a Newfie?>  An enormous black dog that can weigh
> better than 200 lbs. that drools gallons of slobber in hot weather down the
> back seat back from the rear of your wagon.  They were originally used as
> walking life-preservers.

Wait a minute!

A Newfie is more like a Great Pyrenese who came out the wrong colour and has 
more of a likeing for water than a Pyr should.

Think of a very nice friendly black long hair dog, males about 125 to 145 
pounds, just an average size dog.  They, like Pyrs drool a little, but nowhere 
as much as say a Saint.  Where Pyrs are livestock gard dogs, the Newfies are 
water dogs.  Newfies are Black, and the Pyr, a parent breed of the Newfie, is 
white.  They don't drool a ton, they aren't enormous, they don't weigh 200 
pounds.  Geeesh ...   My Pyr is the shortest dog I have ever owned.  They & 
Newfies are just average size very friendly dogs.

It just happens that both Breeds fit into Land Rovers very well and don't quite 
fit into small cars.  They are great to take on Land Rover trips.  Last couple 
of years you would have found both a Newfie & a Pyr at the Portland All British 
Meet.  They were essentual for keeping the bones from piling up too high during 
the rib banquet.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 11:38:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Best Rover? (how to start a fight?)

On Fri, 17 Feb 1995 Sanna@aol.com wrote:

> Real Rovers have metal dashboards!

	Wouldn't "real" Rovers pertain to the P3, P4, P5 etc?  Not sure which
	of those had metal dashes...  I always thought the TC-2000 was pretty
	neat, though some of the older ones had some rather nice styling.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 12:02:09 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Zinc

Gordon Rea wrote:
>Is there an MD on this list that can confirm this?  I thought that Zinc
>was good for you!

In trace ammounts...like a dozen Chincoteague oysters on the half
shell...now that will put lead in you Eberhart-Faber.  However, zinc fumes
and most metal dusts are quite toxic.  Welding galvanized steel (without
ventilation) will lead to a case of "metal fume fever" AKA "the smelter
shakes".  I have seen a video of some Australian bush rat cooking over his
IIa grille, but he was boiling something in a billy, not grilling his food,
and from the blackened look of the grille (or what was left of it) there
wasn't much zinc remaining.  Bon appetit.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:12:40 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: Grilling on the Grille

> You get a lot of zinc in oysters, BTW (which is why they have the reputation
> they do, or at least so I have read.)    
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> Cheers, 
> R. P. Reid
  
 Yeh, I had a dozen oysters last night, but only 11 of them worked.

R, bg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:23:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Morgan Hannaford <morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: Grilling on the Grille

>  Not to be too much of a smart ass but....any of you folks ever hear of 
> this great new thing called aluminium foil??  It works great!   ;)

Hold it!  I'm no doctor, but I own a Land Rover so I must know something.
Doesn't aluminum (-inium for the retentive) cause, er, uh, it is linked
with some, er, anheiser? no wait, alsheim? well, some disease but I forget
what it was.  Where are my keys?

Cheers,

?????????

> cooking trout on the '67 IIa grill
> (with aluminium foil)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> (with aluminium foil)
> Russ

------------------------------

From: "John R. Benham" <BENHAM@WFOCLAN.USBM.GOV>
Date:          Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:23:17 +1100
Subject:       Snorkel

    TeriAnn has on her wish list a raised air intake snorkel. Here 
is my experience:

    Two days ago I received a snorkel kit from `Mantec' out of 
Wawickshire.  I installed it last night and all in all it came out 
pretty good.

    It is designed to be held by two supplied brackets on the 
windshield frame and the ridgid tube slips directly into the 
fender well.  I drilled and tapped through the upper frame and used 
the windshield hinge bolt for the other support.  However, on my 
Rover and possible others, the right side fender well is incumberred 
with the heater blower, intake, and output hoses.  So I modified it 
were the ridgid tube is about 6" above the fender and I used MANTEC's 
flex-tube at 2-90 degree turns to come into the fender just forward 
of all of the heater junk.  It took about an hour to install.  Now I 
have to modify the oil bath filter to accept the flex-tube.  This 
will not be hard since I had to cut a 6" piece of the ridgid tube due 
to it's increased height from my modification.  A friend can braze 
this piece onto the oil bath air cleaner and it will join with the 
inner fender flex tube very nicely.

    The cost was L 110.64 plus L 40.26 shipping (x 1.57 = $236.91US).  
British Pacific charges $300., but their kit is designed to come 
into the hood.  I like the fender well entrance better since you 
don't have to dissasymble anything if you want to remove the hood.  
Also, I think it looks better than the hood entrance type, but that 
is purely subjective.

    If this setup appeals to you TeriAnn or any othe LRO, give Neal a 
FAX at Mantec: 011.44.1203.395368 (both tel. & FAX).  They call it a 
`Raised Air Intake Kit'.  Also, they don't accept charge cards.  It 
was sent to me without payment and now I have to find someone to 
draft an international check!

Later,

John R. Benham
Spokane, WA  USA
1968 IIA 88 `Bwana Mobile'
Land Rover Questions

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 13:18:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Grilling on the Grille

On Fri, 17 Feb 1995, Morgan Hannaford wrote:

> Hold it!  I'm no doctor, but I own a Land Rover so I must know something.
> Doesn't aluminum (-inium for the retentive) cause, er, uh, it is linked
> with some, er, anheiser? no wait, alsheim? well, some disease but I forget
> what it was.  Where are my keys?

	Alzhiemers (ie or ei?) & it doesn't matter.  However, if you wish 
	to discuss American spelling novelties, I'd be happy to do so in 
	mail though you might want to read up on the American Spelling
	Reform movement of the last century for a better idea on some of 
	this stuff...

	

------------------------------

From: Mike Dryfoos <mikedr@microsoft.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 10:22:06 TZ
Subject: Nose art and two questions

Regarding the Newfies in the back of the Rover, I never considered the 
ultra-violet protective properties of the dog smears.  When my German 
Shepherds do this, I think of it as Nose Art.  They are skilled 
practitioners of an austere form of abstract expressionism.  I feel I'm 
privileged to ride around not only in a fine example of automotive art, 
but one embellished with decorations from master nose artists.

Now on to the questions.

1. The brake and clutch fluid reservoir on my '71 SIIA 88" appears to 
be just a single chamber, not the inner and outer chamber depicted in 
the diagrams in the manuals.  Is this normal?  As far as I know, it is 
original equipment.

2. My Superwinch overdrive has suddenly become difficult about 
returning to the disengaged position.  I have no trouble going from 
disengaged to engaged, or from engaged to neutral, but when trying to 
complete the move back to disengaged, it fails to find sync, and grinds 
terribly.  If I shift the main gearbox to neutral, I can then complete 
the shift.  The OD has plenty of oil.  The only thing I've done in the 
area recently is to remove and reinstall the shift lever when I put 
down a new front floor mat.  Any suggestions on what to check?

Regarding hand throttles, my Rover doesn't have one, either.  So it 
doesn't seem they were provided on all IIAs.

------------------------------

From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@qvarsx.er.usgs.gov>
Subject: Re: Eastnor
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:32:38 -0800 (PST)

> In 1976 i was a visitor to the National Rally at eastnor, and a couple or three
> times since. I was also at the launch of the 110 in the early 80's
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
> to the lr movement over the years as host and president of the Midland ROC.
>     Regards     Bill  Leacock   Limey in exile

Bill,

This and all your other bits of indepth information are most appreciated. 
Thanks for the continuing stream of LR insights.  

Walter Swain      1967 IIA 109 Safari SW
Davis, CA  USA              

------------------------------

From: C Taylor Sutherland III <taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Subject: opinions on TDi wanted
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:07:21 -0500 (EST)

I have heard that these things kick out a lot of power and can fit in
an 88" SerIIa.  What I want is opinions on these things...

fixability
availability of parts
smell!
smell without a top on...my guess is it would be a bit rank
price
:)
can they really fit in a 88" S IIa without much trouble?
price.

Thanks guys
Y'all have been a big help so far.

Taylor

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:16:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: LRO FAQ

[edited by bill]
The new, draft version of the faq is available via request from majordomo.

You can get it in one fell swoop (2500 lines, nearly 120,000 bytes), or
in smaller chunks.

	Send a message

	with the text

get lro-digest faq.split.aa
get lro-digest faq.split.ab
get lro-digest faq.split.ac
get lro-digest faq.split.ad
get lro-digest faq.split.ae

	and he'll mail it back to you.

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 92 15:42:34 -0500
From: archer@hsi86.hsi.com (Garry Archer)
Subject: Re:  Land Rovers

I dunno, I must be a puritan or somethin', but I wince and cringe whenever
I read and hear folks refer to Land Rovers as "cars", "trucks" or "Rovers".

They're Land Rovers!!!!!!!!!!

There is no other classification for them :-)

Me dad drove Land Rovers for decades until he retired in 1990 (they belonge=
d
to his firm but he always brought them home for personal use).  Funnily
enough, he said he would never buy one himself, "They're too expensive
to maintain", he said.  The firm always kept them in tip-top condition
so they were always being maintained and me Dad must have been privy to
the cost.

Where I lived in England there were a lot of quarries.  Me dad worked
down most of those quarries (huh, so *that's* why his job title was Quarry=

Manager...)  The quarries produced high quality clay for the area's
refractories.  I digress.  So I've seen the Land Rover in its element -- in=

all elements! -- in fact I've seen them in all positions including rolling=

over down some quarries!  Usually they make the steepest inclines though
(where them darn bulldozers thought that only they could go!).

Fortune (in the form of me Dad) blessed me with the opportunity to drive
a Land Rover (several of them).  One doesn't need to go fast in a Land
Rover (some have mentioned their "low" top speed).  One just goes and goes.
Of all vehicles I have ever driven, I have had the most fun driving a
Land Rover (Archer stop that grinning, you're still at work...)

One of these days, when I'm Rich And Famous I'll have meself a Land Rover
parked right next to me Aston Martins (I can't decide on just *one*!).

Garry Archer Esq.=09{yale, uunet}!hsi!archer  -OR-  archer@hsi.com
3M Health Information Systems,=09Wallingford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"An Englishman never enjoys himself, except for a noble purpose." - A.P.Her=
bert

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

1.  There was a swb that hit a full grown moose a couple of years ago.
    The moose was killed on impact, damage to the swb was caved in front
    wings and the radiator being driven against the fan.  Pulling the
    radiator forward allowed the swb to proceed.  The State Police could
    not believe it.  Photos can be found in an old Rovers North newsletter.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:22:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Nose art and two questions

On Fri, 17 Feb 1995, Mike Dryfoos wrote:

> 1. The brake and clutch fluid reservoir on my '71 SIIA 88" appears to 
> be just a single chamber, not the inner and outer chamber depicted in 
> the diagrams in the manuals.  Is this normal?  As far as I know, it is 
> original equipment.

	Well, it is part number 504105 in my parts manuals for all vehicles
	(including the 6 cylinder to suffix F) to the date of the manual
	(which is August 1981).  I have not seen a reservoir without the
	inner dividing column.

	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 12:45:46 MST
From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL )
Subject: Valve trouble

Two days before going to the Camel Trials my 69
with a new engine stuck a valve.  It was an exshaust
and come to find out all four of the exshaust were
bad.  The machinist had these thoughts:  the guide
caps were too tight and allowed no oil to get down
the stem.  Or the timing was off and suggested using
vacume to time with.  The intakes were perfect, no
defects at all.  One question I have is can the valves
on the exshaust side be run with no cap seal for the guide.
It was suggested that the seal was scrapping the stem dry 
of oil.

Any ideas would be helpful.  The engine has less than 
300 miles since complete rebuild.  No oiling problems and
the rockers were fine.  The engine was not raced during
the break-in.  Just normal driving and the enginr never
overheated.  

Roy - Rover-impaired again!

------------------------------

Subject: Re: US Camel Trials report 
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 12:08:24 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Soren wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, T.F. Mills wrote:
> -------[snip]------------
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> > OVLR fielding a team?!  And our friends from Oz?  And Soren Aurens, the 
> > one-man Danish team?  You guys would have the edge -- most Camel 
 
> Two good reasons:
 
> 1. Proffesional soldiers cannot participate.

	Last year's Camel featured a South African Team.  Etienne van Eeden
was at that time a figher pilot, I assume for South Africa.  

	Or is it that Infantry/Armor/Cavalry/... troops can't participate.

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications International Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 15:28:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Weber carb slow running

	What is the idle set at?  Could be that the leaks in the vaccuum
	system are to great.  Hard to diagnose over a mail message.  Is the
	idle high & you can't slow it it down?  

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Re: US Camel Trials report
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 13:39:53 -0700 (MST)

Regarding the Camel Trophy,
< Soren wrote:
< > 1. Proffesional soldiers cannot participate.
none

and Ben Smith responded:
< 	Last year's Camel featured a South African Team.  Etienne van Eeden
< was at that time a figher pilot, I assume for South Africa.  
< 	Or is it that Infantry/Armor/Cavalry/... troops can't participate.
none

The general ban against military participation caters to the political 
sensitivities of the host countries.  But, in the case of such countries 
as Switzerland which have universal conscription, the ban would be 
unfairly discriminatory.  It's the soldiers by choice who are excluded.

T. F. Mills                                              tomills@du.edu
University of Denver Library  2150 E. Evans Ave.  Denver  CO 80208  USA
      http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 15:58:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: opinions on TDi wanted

On Fri, 17 Feb 1995, C Taylor Sutherland III wrote:

> I have heard that these things kick out a lot of power and can fit in
> an 88" SerIIa.  What I want is opinions on these things...

	Out of curiosity, how much do you have to spend?

------------------------------

From: chris.youngson@deepcove.com
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 12:57:24 
Subject: FIND BILL LANG

Is Bill Lang Scottish? Is his lr white with I think the number 38 on the side?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 15:58:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: opinions on TDi wanted

On Fri, 17 Feb 1995, C Taylor Sutherland III wrote:

> I have heard that these things kick out a lot of power and can fit in
> an 88" SerIIa.  What I want is opinions on these things...

	Out of curiosity, how much do you have to spend?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 13:41:26 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: LR parts

In message <950217194506_70713.1177_FHP68-1@CompuServe.COM> Ronald Blair writes:
> I was reading your messages on the LR digest--
> I am currently restoring a 63 series IIA and thinking about putting the dual
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> at.
> Thanks
> Ron Blair

Ron,I'm sorry I do not have the numbers here.  Dixon (dkenner@emr1.emr.ca ) 
almost certianly has them at work.

You didn't say if you had a 109 or 88.  You need to specify when ordering the 
master cylinder.  They are different & an 88 Master duel cylinder will not pump 
enough for a 109 (unless you replace the 88 break system for a 109 brake system 
back plates & everything attached).  Make very sure Merseyside knows which 
master brake cylinder you need before ordering.

Also you will need to decide if you want to go to power brakes (I did).  If you 
do you will need to find a pedal/booster assembly from a series III, and 
elongate the hole in the fire wall for the brake pedal.

There is an 'H' shaped brass part that you will meed.  Lines go from master 
cylinder to it, from it to wheel cylinders.  If you blow a wheel cylinder, it 
locks out that half of the brake system.  Otherwise if you blow the end attached
to the rear most master cylinder section you are hosed.

You would need to go to the later master clutch cylinder with the built in 
resavor.

I thought it was worth it.  I got the power booster & master cylinder set up, 
and completely renewed the clutch system.  If I ever get my 109 back, I'm going 
to renew the brake system down stream from the master cylinder.  I have already 
had one pin hole rust through on a section of steel line.  After inspecting it,I
figure its time to replace it all.

Take care

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 16:56:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Best Rover? (how to start a fight?)

<The powers that be would prefer if I took a small vacation from discussing
the relative merits of the modern versus the old.

Gotcha ;-)  But we all know that the LAST word is: REAL ROVERS HAVE METAL
DASHBOARDS!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:35:18 -0800
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: MendoForest Scouting Outing II

Fellow netters, at least, those of you in North California, or near enough 
to be interested,

You may have participated in, wanted to participate in, or read about the 
recent Scouting Outing in Mendocino National Forest.  Land-Rover owners 
Morgan Hannaford, Vance Chin, Jim Russell, Walt Swain, John Hess, Jory Bell, 
Dick Hamilton, and I, along with various companions, went up there to scout 
out some of the potential routes and campsites for the Mendocino Forest 
Rallye II, which we are planning for the last weekend in April.

We found two things.  First, there is a lot more scouting to do.  Second, we 
could accomplish a lot more in one two-day outing than in two one-day 
outings.  And for a lot less money, time, and hassle.  John Benham said it 
well when he said he doesn't like to burn up Land-Rover miles on the Interstate.

At the end of the last outing, the perpetrators all agreed that another 
outing was in order and that we all wanted to go, if we could.  There were 
also a number of others, both on and off this list, who would have liked to 
have joined us and expressed an interest in participating in the next outing.

I do hereby announce, therefore, for any who are interested, that we plan to 
return to the Forest Saturday 4 March 1995, camp overnight (probably near 
Letts Lake), and return Sunday the 5th.  Before that weekend comes, I will 
consult with the Forest Service and other experts to make sure we will go in 
by routes which will get us to Letts Lake.  You may recall that our previous 
route didn't work well for that purpose, at least not after all the rain we 
had had.  I will post more about this as the time gets closer.

If you are interested in joining this little outing, let me (or Morgan or 
Walt) know.  If you do plan to come and if your Rover only has one fuel 
tank, plan to carry extra fuel.  Also bring enough water for whatever needs 
you may have, as I don't guarantee that any will be available that's safe to 
drink.  It probably won't be hard to find enough for bathing (?) and 
radiators and such.  Plan on rain and/or snow when you plan what gear to 
bring.  Hopefully we won't have either but better be prepared.  That 
includes tyre chains for at least one pair of wheels.

TTYL, Granville
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ]
[ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:46:22 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: Nose art and two questions

> 2. My Superwinch overdrive has suddenly become difficult about 
> returning to the disengaged position. 
none

Try double clutching. If that works the syncro is frapped. You can continue
to drive it this way without damage. (double clutching that is)

 > Regarding hand throttles, my Rover doesn't have one, either.  So it 
> doesn't seem they were provided on all IIAs.

Everything on series IIs was an option.

R, bg 

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 17:50:43 -0500
Subject: Re: I see a RANGE ROVER in my future

I was in the same boat.  1 1/2 years I bought a '89 RR from Atlantic British
in Mechanicville, NY.  It had 56k on it and I paid $20,500.  Atlantic
British's business is parts, but they also sell a few Rovers/year.  One VERY
good thing about dealing with these people is that they stood 100% behind the
truck.  Since I basically made the deal, sight unseen, this was very
reassuring.  I flew to Albany, picked up the truck and drove it back to
Wisconsin.  For about the next four months, anything, ANYTHING, that I
thought was wrong with the truck, they took care of.  No questions asked.  I
paid the labor to install in Wisconsin, but they send me anything I asked
for; a whole new stainless exhaust system, steering pump, alternator,
interior parts, lamps, cooling fans, etc. etc..  In the end, I got a GREAT
truck that has been very dependable.  The previous owner was a Geenwich CTian
who basically drove it to & fro the golf course.

Atlantic British also has a list of Rovers for sale that has a lot of late
RR's.  There # is 800-533-2210.

I like the '89 very much.  From what I hear, it was a good year for the car.
 It was the first year for the bigger V8 (3.9).  Prior to that they
apparently were a bit under powered (3.5).  The first few years of ABS
(90-91?) were pretty problematic, I understand.  Good luck.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 16:50:08 -0600 (CST)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: FIND BILL LANG

Wow! Internet wins again.  Perhaps we can get him to join the net. Unless 
He is already here and I missed his name on any of the messages.  He has 
a great machine and it sounds like you have seen it.  Dave VE4PN

On Fri, 17 
Feb 1995 chris.youngson@deepcove.com wrote:

> Is Bill Lang Scottish? Is his lr white with I think the number 38 on the side?
none
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
none
> Is Bill Lang Scottish? Is his lr white with I think the number 38 on the side?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 23:01:49 +0100
From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia)
Subject: The Car's the Star

>From _TimeOut_
        "The Car's The Star", BBC2, Friday 17 Feb. 1995, 20 minutes
        "A new sereies of paeans to motor vehicles begins with the Land Rover,
        launched in 1947.  Rover claim that 65 percent of all Land Rovers ever
        built are still on the road, and this unfortunately allows tedious
        collectors to wax long and lyrical about the vehicle's longevity and
        charisma.  Add to this the unctuous presentation of Quentin Wilson
        and you've got 20 minutes of stuff about a lump of metal that moves."

Obviously _TimeOut_ types think we're just another bunch of anoraks.

------

Twenty minutes of rovers. Not too many new ones (spare a few Rangies), and
a number of models in historical footage, or new footage of old vehicles.

The program ends with Quentin Wilson stating that his job of working with
cars tends to leave one jaded, but after 10 days with all types of Land Rovers
and having driving 'bout a dozen of them, he's hooked and it closes with
him driving off in a Series I soft top OCY 233.

Sorry, but I don't have a copy, as I don't have video, and I didn't even try
to arrange for it...  but, if somebody else in the UK got it down, or can id
when it repeats, I do have a friend in the states who can do a PAL to NTSC
conversion.

A partial list of people and vehicles:
        Tom Barton (LR '46-'80)
        Tony Poole (LR '56-'89)
        Anthea Turner, James Taylor
        Series II/III mobile cinema (opening shots)
        Film clip from "Last of the summer wine" (beeb series)
 MUX 62 Series I hard top
OWS 290 'restorable' SI LWB Safari, owned by Tom Conti (moss growing on drip
        rails, etc., apparently original owner...
NLT 9   Chassis 'QM1' [queen mother 1], 6 cylinder rover car engine, 10 seater,
        present owner Richard Beddal, has interior rear wiper to do away with
        condensation from the corgi's running about in the rear.
SNX 891 Newsreel clip from "Overland to Singapore"
A750YOJ BBC2 "Fast Show", talk up the overlanding and promptly get stuck
        immediately on leaving the road
PUE 402 LR Film clip
FBX  82 Nancy Jones from Wales - first run of vehicles, original owner
30GT80  Mil SIII LWB
13KJ67  Mil 110"
2094AC  SII 88" station wagon
        film clip of '54 royal soft top
10FG80  military LWB
        Dunsfold LR Trust - Phillip Bashall with:
        SAS pink panther
        military sII
        100" Forward Control ex-mil fire engine
        the wader
        the forest model

    Cheers,
        --bill  caloccia@Team.Net       caloccia@Stratus.Com

      1  3     dl OD  L           "Land Rover's first, becuase
      |--|--+  o  |   |            Land Rovers last."
      2  4  R     N   H           '72 Range Rover

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 23:05:40 +0100
From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia)
Subject: Re: LRO FAQ

>        I should have made a comment with the statement that I am always
>        looking for more material for the D90/Disco/RR crowd to get their
>        act together.  There is nothing in there about any of them.

Well, you'll have to throw down the gauntlet before it can be picked up...

    Cheers,
        --bill  caloccia@Team.Net       caloccia@Stratus.Com

      1  3     dl OD  L           "Land Rover's first, becuase
      |--|--+  o  |   |            Land Rovers last."
      2  4  R     N   H           '72 Range Rover

------------------------------

From: Dan Derby <derby@sequent.com>
Subject: Subscribe
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 15:26:05 -0800 (PST)

Please subscribe me to the LandRover mailing list.
Again.
Thanks!
Dan Derby

derby@sequent.com

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 19:29:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Pathfinder vs. Discovery

Mike Rooth wonders....

> Whats a Pathfinder?

Nissan Pathfinder.... one of the rice-rocket SUV's..

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 18:31:21 -0500
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: TDIs, ODs, Bad Head, & LRO

Taylor asked:

none
Subject: opinions on TDi wanted

I have heard that these things kick out a lot of power and can fit in
an 88" SerIIa.  What I want is opinions on these things...
none

At the Bay State meet last fall, Mark L. of RN said the 200 TDI kit was $7500.
He also mentioned that the torque would probably eat up IIA & III boxes.  I 
saw 2 installations he had done on Defenders.  Nice installations.  Sounds 
really neat.  Starts right up.  Fixability will be a bit more complex than 
other Rover engines, and availability of parts will probably be 2 weeks (RN 
would not stock them in the US).  As for smell, I dunno.

-----------------------

Mike Dryfoos asked:

none
2. My Superwinch overdrive has suddenly become difficult about 
returning to the disengaged position.  I have no trouble going from 
disengaged to engaged, or from engaged to neutral, but when trying to 
complete the move back to disengaged, it fails to find sync, and grinds 
terribly.  If I shift the main gearbox to neutral, I can then complete 
the shift.  The OD has plenty of oil.  The only thing I've done in the 
area recently is to remove and reinstall the shift lever when I put 
down a new front floor mat.  Any suggestions on what to check?
none

Somehow the shift linkage has changed.  Check for something that is blocking 
the linkage from going into the disengaged position.  

If you're sure the linkage is clear, the other thing it could be is that the 
pinch bolt may have come undone inside the OD.  It's not hard to adjust.  Undo
the insection cover.  Undo the pinch bolt on the selector shaft. Slide the 
synchro assembly back & forth to determine how far it goes each way.  Position
the pinch bolt at the middle of the range it can slide ack & forth and tighten
it.  Work theshift lever back & forth to ensure the synchro travels the same 
distance in and out from neutral.  I wound up doing mine after I rebuilt the 
unit by eye and trial and error.  The first few times it popped out of one and
then the other until I got it right.

Good luck!

---------------

Roy asked:

none
Two days before going to the Camel Trials my 69 with a new engine stuck a 
valve.  It was an exshaust and come to find out all four of the exshaust were
bad.  The machinist had these thoughts:  the guide caps were too tight and 
allowed no oil to get down the stem.  Or the timing was off and suggested 
using vacume to time with.  The intakes were perfect, no defects at all.  One 
question I have is can the valves on the exshaust side be run with no cap seal
for the guide.  It was suggested that the seal was scrapping the stem dry 
of oil. 
none

Geez Roy, I'm sorry to hear that. :-(
Was the stuck valve # 4?  If so, the head gasket may have been installed 
upside down (if it's a genuine head gasket).  The new genuine head gaskets 
have the coolant passages on the pushrod side of the engine on cylinders 1+2 
blocked down to a pinhole, and the passage between 1+2 blocked completely.  
The theory behind this is that the coolant flow with the old head gaskets 
around the front cylinders is greater than the rear and the restrictions in 
the new gaskets force the coolant to have less flow around the front cylinders
and more flow around the rear.  This supposedly keeps the cylinders at a more 
even temerature front to rear, and allows for quicker warm ups.  However it 
leaves less margin for error in the condition of your cooling system - it's 
got to be top notch.  I can't say I'm too thrilled by the situation.  If the 
gasket was intalled upside down, the passages for the rear cylinders are 
blocked and they get real hot.  Your intake valves are cooled by the fuel air 
mixture, so are unaffected.  You probably would not have noticed a temperature
increase as the coolant flow around the temperature sensor would be unimpared.
 However, this doesn't explain why all 4 valves were bad.

Or, it could have been one of those bad batches of head gaskets that Brad (?) 
mentioned a while ago with even more passages blocked off.

If you've still got the pre-rebuild gasket, you can compare the cooling 
passage holes.

On my next rebuild I think I will go for an aftermarket head gasket, as I 
would rather play it safe and have the extra flow.

----------------

LRO just came today.  On pg 184 is that series 1 that did so well.  Funny, it 
looked a lot rougher in person.  On the next page there I am in front of Ben 
Smith's 88.  Put it under an electron micoscope and you'll have a good idea of
what I look like (the one in the shorts).  Ben's behind the tree taking a 
tinkle.  On pg 188 top photo - in the far background is Jeff Berg's marine 
blue IIA softop.  Among the vehicles in the foreground is (I think) Russ 
Burn's Range Rover.  On 187, middle left is Bruce McErney's back (are you 
still with us Bruce?) and if you look carefully over his shoulder, you can see
Jeff Berg.  Below that is Dennis ___ on the left and Chris Laws on the right. 
In the middle shot on the right if you look closely on the left you can see 
Ben Smith's 88.  Fun stuff.

--------------------

Bill C,

It's great to have folks back on the real time list.  It seems to have picked 
up the volume too.  Thanks.  Wish we had that antique car show over here.  It 
would be fun to see the clip about the LRs.  Guess I've got to confess I'm one
of those LR Anoraks.

Bill

maloney@wings.attmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 20:24:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Re: Valve trouble

Golly Roy, that machinist has a valve stuck in *his/her* head!....if the 
valve stem to guide clearence is on spec. and the factory seal is used, 
it should be fine......but it ain't! so!....if it were caused by over 
heating,the wear/gauling would be on the head end of the valve/guide (the 
hotest part) if it were from lack of oil, the problem would be down the 
total lenght of the guide...this machinist can tell which type damage you 
have with a bore gauge in the guide....
Ok, two things .....*YES* you can run w/o exhaust seals...the exhaust are 
not subject to sub-atmospheric  pressure as are the intakes...are you 
getting enough oil to the valve gear in general? if the oil passages in 
the head and/or rocker shaft are blocked you will run the guides 
dry...the rocker area should be dripping wiw3th {_oil after a 
run...running with the valve cover removed (oil will burn..watch out) 
will show quickly how much oil is getting up there....(should be a real 
splashfest...)
The other thing that wipes out valves is the thermostat....do you have 
the kind with the skirt that comes down to block off the by-pass? a 
"flat" american type will kill valves (# 4 1st)......

ummmmmmm did this machinist who rebuilt the engine have a glass beader 
("sand" blaster)???? and who set up the rockers and shafts? rebushed rockers?

tell me more..

steve.......

"HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..."

"NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon          Steven M. Denis
"        "-1957 107 Station Wagon          PO Box 61
"        "-1964 109 Pickup                 Erieville,New York USA
"        "_1967 109 NADA SW                13061

------------------------------

Date: 17 Feb 95 21:05:26 EST
From: "WILLIAM  L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: misc.

Taylor..  It is easy to flip any Land Rover, or most other 4x4 for that matter,
I know from practical experience, it gets easier after the first time.  usually
when you least expect it .  
  I flipped my LWB on my first date with my wife ( she was'nt my wife then ) on
our second date i buried it ( the Landie ) up to the door tops in a bog, eight
winches to recover it. 
 Twenty years of trialling and laning has left plenty of scars.( on the landie
and rangey bodies, not mine )
  It is simple to make a roll bar or cage to fit inside a soft and hard top, the
support rails use up a lot of the space in the rear tho., suggest you make the
support bars easily removable for non off road trips.

 From personal experience I know that the truck cabs and hard tops are useless
in a roll, closely followed by the Rangie roof, they do not support the weight
of the vehicle, even in a gentle roll.

 Pierce, in the uk many of the Rover v8 tuners use the buick parts,holleys,
carters, crane etc etc. 
 I know that turbos ( twin ) kits are available but I dont  know about
superchargers, but where there is a will there is a way.

 For Rangie, Landie and Disco steering and under body protection stuff contact
Southdown 4 x 4  in the uk   44 1363 83819 or fax 44 1363 83472.

  If you don't believe me about the zinc poisoning from burning galvanising,
just go ahead and try it, please do not come back and haunt me. but ifyou really
want to use your grille for cooking, put the grill over an open fire for a
while, but stay awy from the area, once the zinc has been burned off , clean it
up, then it will rust. Iron is good fro the blood.
 like many poisons the dose has a big effect on the effects 

To those that sent them, thanks for the encouraging messages

 Regards  Bill Leacock    Limey in exile

  Remember where you are going, where you came from and why you got yourself in
this mess in the first place.   Richard Bach  -  Illusions 

------------------------------

From: chris.youngson@deepcove.com
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 18:23:39 
Subject: BILL LANG 

As far as I know he is living and working in the Vancouver area. I will talk
to him at our next gathering. 73 DE VE7CST

------------------------------

Subject: the list
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 21:28:39 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

January 1995:  360+ subscribers

During 1993, the number of people on the list grew to 80, 86, 88, 90, 100,
straight on through 101, 108, 109, 110, 127...

January 1993:	50 people

15 April 1991:	Team.Net domain granted
 1 April 1991:	Team.Net domain applied for	
March 1991:	27 people

------------------------------

From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@qvarsx.er.usgs.gov>
Subject: Cooking on the grill
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 18:29:31 -0800 (PST)

If the prospect of zinc poisoning isn't enough discourage the use of
galvanized grills for cooking, consider this:  industrial grade zinc is
almost always contaminated with cadmium (among other metals).  While zinc
(in appropriately small amounts) is a required nutrient, cadmium is just
plain toxic in even small amounts, and hard to get rid of once it's in the
body. 

This may be one reason that galvanized dinnerware has never been very
popular  :^)

Walter Swain      1967 IIA 109 Safari SW
Davis, CA   
                  

------------------------------

Subject: Still more 88" Series IIA Questions (Play:temp/elmmsg.tmp)
From: tia!taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 22:06:31 

From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III)
Subject: Still more 88" Series IIA Questions

Hi guys/gals...

Here are some more questions for ya'll to chew on.  The fact is, I just got 
"The History of the Land-Rover 1948-1988" by James Taylor to help me get a 
better idea about these trucks and it didn't once show me what the inside 
an 88" SIIA looks like!  I was very disappointed.  I would like to have a 
couple of fairly high quality color pics of the interior of these things:  the 
dash, the roof (canvas and hard and station wagon) and the rear seats 
(I may have some different front seats), ok, the front seats as well.  
Thanks, I can't get them off of alt.binaries.pictures.misc.

Questions:

Roof:
     Canvas:  Are there any rear windows in this thing?
     Hard tops:  I see two styles of hard tops, one called a "hard top" and 
the other on the Station Wagon.  The Station Wagon top has what looks like a 
second piece that goes on top of the first piece.  Looking at it from the 
front, you see a gap.  What is that?

Spare:
     On the hood, does it obstruct the view that much?  I'm 6', so I should 
be able to see over it fine, right?  If the spare isn't on the hood, where 
does it go in the 88" with the rear inward facing seats.

Years:
     Other than the head lamps, is there any difference between the years '68 
back and '69 and forward?  I like the look of the center lights, but has 
anybody found that they get in the way of winches and the like?

Tranny:  
     Is it true that while Series III has syncromesh on all gears, it is 
prone to more failures?  What about the rest of the beast?

Military:  
     How much "better" are the military Series IIA's than your basic 
IIA?  I see all sorts of stuff about strengthened chassi, engine oil cooler 
(means the engine was oil cooled?), duel fuel tanks (30 gal US?), and heavy 
duty electrical systems.  What's the catch?  Only diesel?  Much much louder?  
What?  Help me out.

I think that's enough to chew on for now.  Thanks for your patience.

Taylor

-- 
     One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
     One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
     In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. 
<->                  C. Taylor Sutherland, III               <->
<->      IRC Nick:  NIV       <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <->

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 22:17:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Fla. Rover Club

I found a small group of rover owners in the Lake Worth Fla. area. They 
publish a news letter and seem to be well organized...contact
Guy Davis at 419N. "J" street
Lake Worth FL.33460
Guy has a 1958 (?) series one 88.....says that the registration number is 
one of a small group of series one 88's that were built in 1958...it has 
the old style rear axle (semi-floating) which inticates to me an 
older vehicle...
he has the vehicle for sale @ $6900 us....if it was a truly rare vehicle 
it might be worth the price....does anyone know of any 1958 built series 
ones other than the 107sw ?......

steve......

"HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..."

"NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon          Steven M. Denis
"        "-1957 107 Station Wagon          PO Box 61
"        "-1964 109 Pickup                 Erieville,New York USA
"        "_1967 109 NADA SW                13061

------------------------------

From: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com <John_Hong@3mail.3Com.COM>
Date: 17 Feb 95 19:43:20 EDT
Subject: ARC memories

Stefan writes:

>Also among the 'chosen few' to do this test drive was none other than
>John Hong and a couple of guys from BSROA in a rented brand-new snow-white
>Defender 110 (bet they didn't tell the rental agency what they were up to...)

Ho boy - good thing God invented power washers!   We are going to rent from 
them again this year the outfit is Top Range - they advert in LRO.  BSROA is 
going again - Lord Jim and Lady Pappas will be attending - I'm going - we'll 
see if Kevin Keegan (either he or Jim was on the camera) will make it for BSROA 
Pilgrammage III.  Any other folks going?  Sir Denis?   Duke Leacock?  Caloccia 
and Jacob will be there right!

<Snip>

>And please, will the guy who filmed me d(r)iving thru that water hole from
>the back of the white 'Official American Delegation' Defender finally
>send me that particular video clip, digitize and e-mail it to me, or give it
>to someone who'll attend this years' Rally - I just *gotta have it* !

Jim Pappas, you reading this?  Can we make the man happy?  Probably be wanting 
to extort some of that Deutchland brew out of him though...Stefan can you 
handle VHS?  I'm setting up to do PC-based capture-editting-output - I could 
probably do something - gotta get a tape from Jim though...

Also, a project I'm kicking around is getting a  50 Cal  ammo box and cutting a 
hole in one end and silconing a piece of 1/4 inch glass over it.  Come up with 
some scheme to mount the thing on top of the bumper and put a "cheap" video cam 
in it and then go off roading.   One could probably rig up a remote too?   
Anybody try this?  Is the vibration just TOO much?

John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 20:37:16 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: U.K. parts details

> Use a credit card in dealing with companys in different currency areas. 
> The credit card company deals with the currency exchange.  If you send 
> them a check, you need to find a place that issues checks in other 
> currencies.  This can be a pain.

I rung up the post office t'other day to inquire about postal money orders 
in foreign currencies and learned that you can purchase a voucher from the 
post office which you then send to St. Louis.  Somebody in St. Louis then 
sends a check in pounds sterling to whomever in England.  Unfortunately, 
all this takes about 6 weeks.

So, I'd have to agree with the credit card solution.  If you need to send 
money, though, to someone who doesn't take credit cards (Crazy Aunt 
Euphegenia, for example), this may help out.

In regards to your orders...  I might be interested in going in on some 
parts too.  (Drooling over your sand ladders and snorkel...)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 00:00:24 -0600 (CST)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Still more 88" Series IIA Questions (Play:temp/elmmsg.tmp)

The station wagons usually had a plate on the rear Land Rover sign that 
said Station Wagon.  It has a door that swings open like a regular door 
rather than a lift and drop tailgate set up.  Usually they had one of, 
jump seats which were single and faced inward or inward facing bench type 
rear seats which seated two people.  Almost all the ones I have had use 
the 4 single inward facing seats.  The second roof you seemed to describe 
is I believe the tropical roof.  It is really only a second layer of 
metal which sits above the "real" roof and allows air to flow between the 
two skins to give some relief from tropical heat.  Usually there are air 
vents in the lower roof to let in cooler air.  Not all vehicles of course 
have this tropical roof.  On some station wagons or shooting brakes as 
they seem to be called from time to time or estate cars the tyre is 
carried on the bonnet and in others it is on the swing out door.  In my 
station wagon 88, it is carried sometimes in one of those locations but 
most often just behind the driver on a fitting which has a wingnut and 
plate to attach it to the bulkhead between the rear and front of the 
vehicle.  Remember that each Land Rover is almost a special order so many 
of the things I have described can be different on otherwise identical 
vehicles.  My stationwagon has door and roof panels of black nugahyde 
(sp) which cover most of the interior metal surfaces, but in some units 
this is omitted.  The nicest way to carry the tyre on the hood is on the 
deluxe bonnet.  It differs from the standard one in that it is dished in 
the middle to lower the tyre for better view and the leading edge is 
rounded.  My vehicle has both the interior and outer wing headlamps.  
This way when I am carrying the full winch and jerrycan combo I don't 
block the lights.  They run off separate switches inside so I can select 
all or only one set of three types of front lamps I carry.  Of course I 
switched to a heavy duty Alternator.  I better not fill anymore 
bandwidth.  If you have any more info you want E-Mail me direct.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 22:07:21 -0800
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: I see a RANGE ROVER in my future

>Sanna@aol.com wrote:
>I like the '89 very much.  From what I hear, it was a good year for the car.
none

 After the complete makeover you decsribe, any year would be a good year.  @)

>It was the first year for the bigger V8 (3.9).  Prior to that they
>apparently were a bit under powered (3.5).  The first few years of ABS
>(90-91?) were pretty problematic, I understand.  Good luck.

 I heard that the '89 RR's have Lucas electronics, while '90 and later
 have Bosch.  Is this correct??

 --Michael
   cs@crl.com

 

------------------------------

From: Kelly Minnick <minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: Misc
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 23:07:59 PST

RE: Misc (here he goes again!)
1.  Foot activated throttle - I think these are required everywhere but the
moon.  The hand throttle is really for those of us with PTO toys (winches,
welders, pumps, etc.).  Have seen/had many IIa's without them.  Seen many sIII
with them and Warn Hubs...
2.  My sIII has a galv. metal grill.  Is this an option?  Yes, I know most are
plastic (which doesn't work well in the fire). Zinc fumes will kill you. (weld
shops sand off the zinc first!). Don't know about oral. Never eaten out of a
carb!  My '73 USA also had a EGR valve (I quickly took it off and hid it from
the smog people).  Was this common?
3.  There are 3 or 4 places listed in LRO that have high performance parts for
the 225 ci motor (not 283 - completely different).  The 225 was raced in round
and round, but mainly in boats here in the states.  This is a wet-linner engine
and I believe that the largest ci you can make it is a 4.8L or 5.0L.  There
are chip replacements for the EFI.  A Preditor (variable venturi) carb would
give awsome performance, but cost lots of fuel.  Also, porting/cam mods can
be done, but you're just shifting the torque curve and trading torque for
HP. i.e. do you want a high-RPM street machine or something trackable at
800 RPM?  In general, ci (displacement) = HP/Torque!  Get a Chevy 350 TRUCK 
engine and get an adaptor plate.  Hope you don't lunch the 380 trans!

Does anyone know the part # for the 4-prong ground used in the tail lights
on my '73 sIII?  I have the number for the 2-connection, but can't find the
# for the 4.  Also, can we get these odd bullet connectors here in the States?

Should fire up my engine this week-end.  Wish me luck!  For those of you setting
your steering - don't leave that cold chisel in the steering relay arm as you
decide which spline is best.  As I turned mine lock to lock (fool with short
memory), I kind of kinked my NEW radiator.  What a BOZO!

As far a how great LR's, does that make it right to give it snob appeal?  It 
wasn't that long ago that LR was shaking in their boots 'cause of the Land
Cruisers, Monteros, etc.  Remember, these people LOVE to copy something that
is making money. (compare the running gear of a Land Cruiser ('77) with the
Land Rover).  Yes, I thing they're great (Tony Tiger here). But, the Disco
STARTS (cost wise) where all the domestics max out. An out the door of $38K
plus change for a maxed out one.  Does the house come with it?  The dealers
act like I should be happy I'm getting it for that price.  The cost of some-
thing should not allow me to look down on less expensive vehicles!  Disco-
the YUP vehicle of the 90's.  Makes me not want to buy one.  I've had some
very rude run-ins with the LA types... Sorry.  But I really do feel beter!
Someone wanted prices - $32,285 OTD stripped 5 spd, 33,550 OTD with auto.
'91 RR with 48K - 58K miles $23K to $26K.  Later
Kelly Minnick  '73  88" Safari
Ridgecrest, CA

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 


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