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Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 10:14:25 GMT
From: rluckwll@otto.tcd.ie (Roger Luckwill)
Subject: Repeat letter

For those who cannot decode Mac attachments the letter reads:

TO: All Fellow Land Rover  Enthusiasts Worldwide who happen to be on the
Internet

FROM: Tony Luckwill, Republic of Ireland.

Dear All,

Just a short note to say that I am responsible for setting up the (first
ever attempt) Irish Land Rover Owner's & Enthusiasts Club that caters for
all interested persons of such and the club caters for the whole of the
Republic of Ireland.

I would be happy to hear from anyone who wishes to converse LR's with me
and my fellow club members.

We are organising several events during 1995,  I will keep you all posted
about them at selected intervals throughout the year.

Looking forward to hearing from you!!

e-mail: mark all correspondence for  my attention : via rluckwll@mail.tcd.ie

Telephone me direct at home: dial your int. code then [353] ((0)1) 459 3526.

Write to me: Tony Luckwill,  42 Monastery Walk,  Clondalkin,  Dublin 22,
                                                Republic of Ireland.

Cheers!!

Tony

------------------------------

Subject: Forwarded message...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 95 22:53:46 -0500

From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)

Sanna@aol.com writes:

> I bought my IIa (Lulubelle) new in 1970.  It has 1/3  million miles on it,
> and I have just passed it on to my son at U of O in Eugene.  We just drove it
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
> Any ideas on the cause of the faultering?  I've been looking for a Zen Rover
> mechanic in Eugene, but no luck yet. - Tony

Sounds like the coil.  If it gets too hot, it will cause the symptoms you 
describe

--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Subject: forwarded message... #2
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 95 22:54:48 -0500

Subject: those new 110's
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)

Well, since I posted my last message about those phantom 110's the net 
has gone quite quiet on the subject.

Was I really right? They just dont exist do they girls. Come on, one of 
you should just admit it.

Or is is that you guys were just too embarassed to tell us that you got 
suckered.

In the meantime I have a large tract of property for sale in the Southern 
US with great potential, offers??

Robin

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 09:49:08 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: Window Sealant

> Subject: Re: Window Sealant
> The correct windscreen sealant is a roll of *flat* rubbery tape that is 
none

  I used black silicone rubber goo stuff (RTV). Just fold the frame down
so gravity is your helper. I cut four little spacers from some foam rubber
(black) about 1/16" thick. Stick the spacers on the frame, close to the
four corners so that they would space the glass away from the frame. Run
a nice generous bead of your favorite silcone goo around the frame and
spacers. Lay the glass into the goo. Run an other bead around the glass,
and screw the retaining stripps into place. Clean up the excess with
a wet finger or your tounge or what have you. oooh... yucky sticky. get it
a neat as possible before it sets. After it sets up you can trim with a
razor blade around the edge. Nice. Mines been in for 12 years like that.
It ain't gona leak.

CU, bg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:50:25 -0800
From: jory@org.org (jory bell)
Subject: Re: New Subscriber

>> ps: too bad it desn't cover mall things, since I just smashed another tail
>> lamp whilst parallel parking ;)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>        high when compared to the average Nissan or Honda, unless of course
>        it had buckled that high...  :-)

I have wire baskets on the reverse lamp (or it would have gone as well) but
I've been too cheap to get them for the tail lamps.

Alas, it was a pole with which I surgically whacked the yellow tail-lamp.
So precisely, that while the lense completely vaporised, the bulb and
plastic housing were completely unscathed! go figure...

-jory

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 11:20:53 -0600
From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)
Subject: Jacob's Electronics

Has anybody had any experience dealing with or using ignition products from
Jacobs Electronics?

They have a gizmo they are selling called the Omnipack that sits between
(from my understanding ) your points and the coil. It fires the coil and
just uses the points as the trigger. I guess it is sort of like the
Crane/Allison unit but you don't get the optical trigger. Your points in
this system are supposed to last 5 or 6 times longer (this is one claim
among the many I have heard from them).

I do like the fact that you keep the points which seems to be in keeping
with the simple mechanical nature of the truck and with the way the wiring
setup is if the Jacobs thinged failed you could just switch a few wired and
be back to stock.

I may be wrong on how this whole thing works but if anybody has some
thoughts or opinions I sure would like to hear them.

Best-

Greg

PS - Is there a general consensus on electric cooling fans? Do they do
anything for performance/economy or are they just a not worth it?

 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 Greg Hiner                                      (512) 475-7243
 Computer Support                                hiner@mail.utexas.edu
 Garrison Hall 318
 University of Texas at Austin
 Austin, TX 78712

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:50:21 -0800
From: jory@org.org (jory bell)
Subject: those new 110's

I've heard a whole new set of "info" on these from non-rover net surfers i
know. they claim these vehicles were donated by the british government to
"desert slaughter" (err, i mean storm) and that they are in crates sans
wheel, fluids, etc.

Someone somewhere said they need about $3500 in work/parts to be mobile.

A couple people offered to send me their archives of info on these (I
politely declined), and at least one guy i know is supposedly part of a
group trying to buy a lot of 25.

My interest is, shall we say, somehwhat tempered by my better judgment ;)

-jory

>Subject: those new 110's
>From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>Or is is that you guys were just too embarassed to tell us that you got
>suckered.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 11:20:03 -0500
From: Jimmy Patrick <jimmyp@cksp.demon.co.uk>
Subject: lro ftp site

lro netters,

Is the ftp site gone? I looked for Ray Harder's ftp site of the lro-digests
and I can no longer get in as anonymous. I also asked Majordomo who was
subscribed to lro and Ray is not on the list any more (as far as I can
tell--are you out there Ray??) I have a machine where we can put the old
digests if lulu is no longer available. Does anyone else have a load of old
digests? I have all of 93 on my system here. Does anyone care to have them
archived?

Jimmy Patrick

--

CKS|Partners                                            0344-382114
Advertising & Marketing Communications            fax   0344-303192
                                                  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 10:39:05 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Rover/BRM Racer

I've tried posting several messages directly to Roy in the Rockies, but
each time they get bounced back as "user unknown".  This happens whether
the mail reader does the addressing or I do it...so Roy, this cuppa JP5 is
for you....
The Rover/BRM turbine race car was developed for the 1965 LeMans race.  The
first Graham Robson book shows it in a very Rover-like pose...the bonnet up
and several engineer-types peering into the engine bay.  More interesting
is the transporter used to haul the vehicle to the track.  It's a forward
control (and in 1965, one of the very first) with a special "kneeling"
suspension in the back.  With the rear axle removed, the load bed could be
lowered almost to ground level so the car could be rolled up easily into
the back.

And while I've got your attention, I've replaced or refitted all the glass
using the butyl "rope" stuff.  More appropriately, it is a "tape" and get
the thinnest stuff available - 1/16" thick by about 1/4" wide.  For the
windscreen, the stuff needs to be applied to inner and outer surfaces, not
the edges.  When you do it right, the edges of the glass won't contact the
frame anywhere...not even at the bottom (use wooden shims to hold in place
temporarily).  Same holds true for the fixed glass in the front doors, but
here only the outside gets the butyl.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: "DAVE MCKAIN" <MCKAIN@faculty.coe.wvu.edu>
Date:          Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:34:38 EDT
Subject:       Land Rover Turbines

I have been notified that one of the turbine engines used for LR's 
was donated to someone in SA who is no longer there and currently 
resides in some sort of museum. Sorry that the facts are sketchy but 
the info is second hand.
David McKain            mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu
540 Burroughs St.       (304) 599-0120
Morgantown, WV  26505
USA                     1966 Ser IIA Petrol

------------------------------

From: "DAVE MCKAIN" <MCKAIN@faculty.coe.wvu.edu>
Date:          Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:46:18 EDT
Subject:       Head Gaskets

I spoke to the gentleman at British Pacific about the potential 
cooling problems with recently supplied 2.25 liter petrol head 
gaskets (part # RTC3335). I was told that the gasket missing the 
coolant ports from cyl's 2, 3 and 4 has a grey composite surface towards 
the head while the proper head gasket has a brown surface. I checked 
the one I just installed (from the small portion of the gasket 
protruding from under the front of the head) and, luckily, it was the proper gasket. BP 
has contacted Land Rover but has yet to recieve any information. I 
purchased this head gasket 7 Dec 94. I would still like to get some 
more information before I thrash the vehicle this May so if anyone 
knows anything more about these head gaskets, please drop me a 
message.
David McKain            mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu
540 Burroughs St.       (304) 599-0120
Morgantown, WV  26505
USA                     1966 Ser IIA Petrol

------------------------------

Date: 02 Feb 95 08:51:30 EST
From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Clarence the Cross-eyed Lion

Folks:

Does anyone have a copy of Clarence the cross-eyed lion?  I'd love to see it.
I'll swap a copy of Crack in the World (which is also loaded with Land Rovers).

Thanks for all the answers on the D90.  There is a very enthusiastic gentleman
out in Reno who is interested in the Sgt Major and who I think will give it a
great home, so I am getting rather excited about the prospect of a D90 in the
spring! 

Cheers, 

R. Pierce Reid

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 09:11:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: New Subscriber

On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, jory bell wrote:

> ps: too bad it desn't cover mall things, since I just smashed another tail
> lamp whilst parallel parking ;)

	Wire baskets for the tail lamps.  Smashed another tail lamp whilst
	parallel parking?  What did you hit?  Tail lamps are just a wee bit
	high when compared to the average Nissan or Honda, unless of course
	it had buckled that high...  :-)

	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: 02 Feb 95 09:02:12 EST
From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Trailer Bargains

Folks:

As you 88 owners know, the one limitation of a Land Rover SWB is the amount of
carrying capacity you get in the back... Well the Marine Corps solved all my
problems!

Over Christmas, I bought a U.S. Military trailer built for M-151 and surplused
when the military switched to Hummers.  These trailers are incredible and are
generally available for 100-400 dollars in good to excellent shape. The one I
bought was totally reconditioned by the Marine Corps before they switched to
Hummers and they dumped it as surplus for next-to-nothing after totally
rebuilding it.  I paid $300 for it totally rewired, new bearings, new tires, new
springs, new lights, new (albiet crappy) paint, rebuilt brake... everything what
they called "arsenal reconditioned." 

The trailers are incredibly well built, have big, 16" wheels and great springs,
parking brakes, drains (with stoppers so you can fill it with water and use as a
pool at the rally) etc.  They are so well balanced that you can lift the tongue
and maneuver them around yourself, too.  They are built for off-road use, too,
so are at home behind a Rover even in arduous conditions.

You need to fit pintle hitch to the rear crossmember in place of the ball, but
pintles are easy to get and install.  They are even the perfect height for a
Land Rover rear crossmember, so they don't cant up or down.  They are definitely
overengineered and an amazing bargain.  When I get my D90 I'll be tearing the
trailer down and repainting it to match the D90 (It's Marine camo now) and will
look sharp painted up witha black chassis, matching wheels and body-colored box.

Anyway you can probably find one of these trailers by contacting the Military
Vehicle Preservation Assn, or any number of surplus shops (or looking in
Hemmings).  There are tons on the market right now as the military has just
dumped a lot off them off as surplus.  There is a whole yard of them for sale at
a surplus shop in Lancaster, OH, btw.

Anyway, thought folks would be interested.  They are a great addition to an 88
and vastly increase the utility for anyone doing real work with their Rovers!
(And I won't have to fill the back of a new 90 with manure, either!)

Cheers, 

R. Pierce Reid

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 12:09:20 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? (spelling?)

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? (spelling?)
Help! I just got my new Daytimer refill pages, and ordered the "map
set". There's a map of the UK but it has a "quadrillion" cities on it,
and I can't seem to locate Solihill. (Nor can I spell it, no doubt!)
Could someone help me locate it? If you could give me the approximate
distance and direction from a major city like London, Liverpool,
Birmingham, or Newcastle I'd appreciate it. Also, please help me with my
spelling.

I just want to "see" where my favorite vehicles are made.

Thanks, and if you could respond directly, that too would be
appreciated. I'm in the digest mode, and am fairly anxious. (Okay... so
I have NO patience!)

Thanks again, Dave Brown - '94 Discovery - Phoenix Arizona USA.

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |           thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

From: Keerock2@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 14:28:39 -0500
Subject: Re: D90 Questions

Pierce Reid writes:

>But I have some questions on the D90...
>1.  Has anyone ordered one with the standard steel wheels?
none

No, I haven't seen a D90 with steel wheels during my extensive digging around
looking at Defenders in Southern California in the last few months.  However,
I did see a used D110 for sale at (believe it or not) the local Porche
dealership recently, and it had the steel wheels. They strike me as much more
functional than attractive.  As I remember, they had the same number of
spokes and same general design as the alloys, except that they're much
"flatter" than the alloys (not as convex or rounded).  BTW, are there really
problems with the alloys??

>3.  I plan on putting a softtop on it, but wondered if a pickup cab is
>available (as for the Series Land Rovers) for winter use on the D90.

Pardon my ignorance, but by "pickup cab" do you mean a hard top?  LR was
supposed to start importing hard tops for D90s in January that fit over/thru
the roll cage.  You have to have the full safari cage, though.  I haven't
seen one in person yet, but I did see a picture of one at the dealership and
they look just like the soft top, with alpine windows, etc., and are even
that same grey color.  Reports in the LR section here on America Online
complain that they're made of "Kiddie-pool plastic" but I have yet to verify
that.  Also, the top is $2,500.  Ouch!

Speaking of price and parts, more than one Defender owner has suggested that
I buy a very basic D90 (with just A/C and the top I want).  Then they said to
buy the rest of the goodies (brush guards, rear seat, side steps, etc.) from
Rover North for roughly 50% of what the dealers charge.  I'm still trying to
find the number for RN to get a catalog and verify this.  Something to keep
in mind.

>4.  How about insurance?

I called a few insurance companies here in So. Calif.  Keep in mind we have
some of the highest rates in the country.  For me (25 yrs old, clean record),
the best quote was $1,900 per year.  That was after arguing with the woman
for ten minutes that I was *not* mistaken and that there actually *was* a
1994 vehicle made without ABS and/or airbags.  Your results may vary.  And
WHAT comments about how these things roll were you refering to??

>Thanks, I am sure I'll think up some new questions as I get closer to a
>purchase.  I would love to hear from the D90 community on how they 
>are getting along with their vehicles ....

I'm in the same situation and therefore should introduce myself.  My name is
Dean Silliman and I've been on this list for only a few days.  I'm here
because I'm very seriously considering buying a D90 in the near future.  I
considered a slightly used LWB, but decided a D90 would be much more fun (if
much less practical).  Like Mr. Reid, I have many questions.  Mostly I'm
concerened about using the D90 as a day-to-day vehicle, which would be the
sad reality if I purchase one.

Are D90s considered "legitimate" by the vintage LR community? (E.g. are they
as hearty?)  Are they suitable for daily use?  These are things hard to gauge
by a test drive.  I've been off-roading in our family 1941 WWII-issue Jeep
since I was old enough to reach the clutch and I look forward to moving up in
power and ability with the D90.  By the way, are there any LR clubs here in
So Calif?  The off-roading here in my mountain community two hours east of
L.A. rivals much of that found in Northern Cal (sans Redwoods, of course).

Any advice from readers would be greatly appreciated.  Everyone should also
feel welcome to send direct email to me.  And I pledge to make future
submissions much shorter.

-Dean

PS - Did anyone else catch "Car & Driver's" Ten Best/Worst list for 1994?
 Unfortunately, the D90 filled two of the ten catagories for worst
performances of the year:

  Top speed...Land Rover Defender 90, 86 mph
  Interior sound level @ 70 mph...Land Rover Defender 90, 86 dBA

They just don't understand.

------------------------------

Subject: connectivity.... 
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 14:42:55 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

Real time subscribers may have noticed that the list was unreachable 
between approximately 12:45 and 18:15 GMT today.     This was due to a
BT line problem between the London Point-of-Presence of our network
provider and Major Domo's location. 

 - Bill

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: D90 Questions
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 12:02:55 PST

> supposed to start importing hard tops for D90s in January that fit over/thru
> the roll cage.  You have to have the full safari cage, though.  I haven't
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> complain that they're made of "Kiddie-pool plastic" but I have yet to verify
> that.  Also, the top is $2,500.  Ouch!

I have one of those kiddy pool tops, and have not had anny issues with it. I
have been wondering if you can use the top for a bass boat in the summer..
I am sure it would make a great sled. (the top panel unbolts from the sides.

> Speaking of price and parts, more than one Defender owner has suggested that
> I buy a very basic D90 (with just A/C and the top I want).  Then they said to
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> find the number for RN to get a catalog and verify this.  Something to keep
> in mind.
RN 1-802-879-0032 I got my top from them. The price was equel to the
dealer, but there nice to deal with, and have a better location.
 
> >4.  How about insurance?
> I called a few insurance companies here in So. Calif.  Keep in mind we have
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)]
> concerened about using the D90 as a day-to-day vehicle, which would be the
> sad reality if I purchase one.
 I use mine to comute 100 mile a day. With the hard top, and lots of
foam, and dynomat it is comfortable. I also raised the seat up 1.5 inches.

 
> Are D90s considered "legitimate" by the vintage LR community? (E.g. are they
> as hearty?)  Are they suitable for daily use?  These are things hard to gauge

Until we get 20 or so years under our belt, we will always be the weaker sex.
but we still can beat on the disco, and R-rover owners together....

> by a test drive.  I've been off-roading in our family 1941 WWII-issue Jeep
> since I was old enough to reach the clutch and I look forward to moving up in
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)]
>   Interior sound level @ 70 mph...Land Rover Defender 90, 86 dBA
> They just don't understand.
Mine does 90...
Russ Burns
94 D-90
91 R-Rover

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 15:05:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Trailer Bargains

On 2 Feb 1995, Pierce Reid wrote:

> As you 88 owners know, the one limitation of a Land Rover SWB is the amount of
> carrying capacity you get in the back... Well the Marine Corps solved all my
> problems!

	The Canadian military dumped these in the summer of last year.  Some
	people got a very good deal through Crown Assets Disposal (All federal
	good have to go through there)

	Rgds,

	PS.  At least four with OVLR Ottawa members that I know of.

------------------------------

Subject: D90 Questions
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 12:19:55 -0800
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

------- Forwarded Message

cc: mfredett
Subject: Re: D90 Questions 
In-reply-to: Your message of "31 Jan 1995 08:57:55 EST."
             <950131135755_70004.4011_FHT43-2@CompuServe.COM> 
- --------
Pierce,
	Well I know how your problem goes. I sold my Series truck
after spending a day test driving a D90. It's tough to go back to
slow old four bangers after you get a headfull of V8. Anyway, I'll
try to answer your questions here.
1.  Has anyone ordered one with the standard steel wheels?  I am not a huge fan
of alloy wheels (they get the creeping crud after a couple of winters) and I
especially don't want to pay some $600 for wheels I don't like.  I am told the
steel wheels are dimensionally identical to the alloys, but I have yet to see a
D90 with them on it.  Are they "really" available and what do they look like?
Are they the same as the UK Defender steel wheels?
	All US D90's are ordered with the alloy wheels. And they are 1100 not 600.
I tried to get the steel wheels myself when I bought mine but they were a special
order item at the time. They didn't even have any in the US then, although that 
may have changed by now. And for 95, I don't think the sales brochures even mention
the steel wheels anymore, so I'm afraid you'll have to live with the alloys. Just as
an aside, Land Rover does a good job protecting thier alloys, My wife's Range Rover
is a 90' model, so 5 years and 5 winters and the alloys seem to be holding up well.
2.  Has anyone tried to fit a hoodmount spare on a D-90?  I would think one of
the original mounting plates from a Series Land rover could be adapted to a
steel wheel, but I wonder about the strength of the hood, etc.
	I looked at my 88 Camel Trophy video last night and the D110 vehicles all had
hood mounted spares on them. I don't know of anyone who has converted thier US spec
D90 over but I suspect that the big mud terrain tires would be A:Too high to see over
or at least block a lot of vision and B: the width of the tire would put the holes
on the rim beyond the reach of the spike/bolt hold down affair no matter which way you
turned the thing. Besides, the spare carrier on the US spec is such a well engineered
part that it'd be a shame to waste it, or were you thinking of carrying two spares?
3.  I plan on putting a softtop on it, but wondered if a pickup cab is available
(as for the Series Land Rovers) for winter use on the D90.  I know I would have
to remove the roll-cage, but is anyone in the UK making one of these caps?   I
am going over in the fall and will bring one back if I know where to look.  How
much would I expect to pay?
	The pickup cab is not available for the US spec vehicle becuase there is no rear
bulkhead for the cab to seal to. It was removed to make room for the lower safari cage
extensions. Sorry, I think a truck cab would be really neat too! In the YU KAY these are
quite common, ie no safari cage, they still have the rear bulkhead in place. However there
is effectively NO WAY to bring over a UK spec D90, the EPA/DOT folks have pretty well
made it impossible. Look at it this way, if there were a way to do it, some enterprising
soul, like Mark Letourney at Rovers North would be doing it. Oh wait, I just figured out 
you meant just the pickup cab, DOH! Ok, yeah i guess you could find one over there without
too much trouble, and shipping it over wouldn't be too awful bad, but you'd still be faced
with the lack of a rear bulkhead on your D90. I spose you could remove the safari cage and
buy a bulkhead somwhere, rivet the thing together. Still a lot of trouble though.
4.  How about insurance?  Do people find the rates particularly high?  I doubt
they are below average, but one never knows. I'll contct my agent, but wondered
if anyone had any insurance horror stories with D90's, particularly in the wake
of certain idiotic comments on how they roll.
	My insurance was almost exactly the same as for my Ser lll, which I had fully covered.
It did go up a bit as I recall, but not too bad considering there was 20+ years difference.

>Pardon my ignorance, but by "pickup cab" do you mean a hard top?  LR was
>supposed to start importing hard tops for D90s in January that fit over/thru
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>complain that they're made of "Kiddie-pool plastic" but I have yet to verify
>that.  Also, the top is $2,500.  Ouch!
	The hard tops are made of gel coated fiberglass approximately 1/4 inch
thick.Mine cost me 1849.00 at my dealer; Rovers North could have saved me a bit
on cost but I would have lost it to shipping the thing, it's a HUGE heavy box.
 Not kiddie pool plastic. Just about the same as a jeep hardtop actually. Retch.
The only exceptions to this are the 40 special edition D90's brought in a couple
months ago which came with the standard UK version aluminium hardtop. These were given
to a select few dealerships who had supposedly distinguished themselves with stellar
sales or something, mostly in Florida and Texas I understand. We certainly didn't 
get any up here in Portland. 
>Speaking of price and parts, more than one Defender owner has suggested that
>I buy a very basic D90 (with just A/C and the top I want).  Then they said to
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>find the number for RN to get a catalog and verify this.  Something to keep
>in mind.
	This is true, the dealers really stuff the corncob on those accessories.
Rovers North can save a chunk of change here.

>Are D90s considered "legitimate" by the vintage LR community? (E.g. are they
>as hearty?)
	Well this has been a source of some controversy here on the list, a few
diehards believe if it doesn't have leaf springs it should be used as a boat
anchor; I and a few others are bit more optomistic and bought one anyway. There
is no question that it is superior in offroad prowess in the hands of a skilled 
driver. Only time will tell as to longevity, call me in ten years and I'll let you 
know. I'd like to think that they've improved that part of things too.  
>Are they suitable for daily use?
	I drive mine every day, it's my only transportation. Every other weekend or
so we go up to forest for some fun to see how far we can get before the winch gets
used. It hasn't let me down yet.
							Rgds
							Mike Fredette
							Portland, Or.
							D90
							90 Range Rover (wifes)
Oooh, got way too long there.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:59:19 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Land Rover in adverts

LRNA had/has a great series of print ads on the back cover of British Car 
(a great mag, btw).  Lots of british humour, and showing the capabilities. 
 One of my favorites: 

           __..--'\
   __..--''        |                                ____....----''''
  /                |            __...---___...---'''                
 |                _|        _.-'__..--''                ____....---/
 |        __..--'' |    _.-'_.-'            ___...---'''        _.'
 |__..--''      () |  .___.-'        __..--''         ___...---'/
 |        RR    __/   |   |      _.-'         __..--''  ___...''
 | ()     __..-'  |   |   |  _.-'         _.-'         /
  \__..--' _.==|  |  /    |            .-'        ..''
 |  |   _() __..---''
 |  |=='  /
 |__...--'  We british have always driven on the wrong side of the road.
 /
'

Anyway, it's *supposed* to be a curving mountain road, (on the right, 
there) and a Range Rover (on the left) paralleling it on the other 
(wrong) side of the low barrier.  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 18:02:11 +0100
From: Simon Hobson <simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Questions for the Defender 90 Community

>Questions for the Defender 90 Community:

>2.  Has anyone tried to fit a hoodmount spare on a D-90?

It's a common option and there are strengthening ribs in the panel where
the mounting goes. On the downside, it's a right pain of a place to put it.
It makes the bonnet^H^H^H^H^H^Hhood very heavy to lift and obstructs vision
somewhat. I havn't actually tried it, but I imagine that it takes some
strength to lift the spare on and off the bracket - especially if you're in
your best suit and the wheels are dirty when you get a flat.

>3.  I plan on putting a softtop on it, but wondered if a pickup cab is
>available
>(as for the Series Land Rovers) for winter use on the D90.

Pick-ups are a standard option over here in the UK, so the parts should be
readily available. Whether they are readily available over there I can't
say.

>4.  How about insurance?  Do people find the rates particularly high?

Well I found the 90 (2.5 Diesel, non turbo) cheaper to insure than the car
(Renault 11, 1721cc Petrol), and I think the tdi is about the same. I can't
say what the V8 petrol would be as there aren't many of them over here and
I've never considered owning one - did someone mention petrol prices :-(

>I would love to hear from the D90 community on how they are getting
>along with their vehicles

Well I've had mine for 10 months now and I really like it. I need better
off-road tyres, and I'm still working out how to get the hydraulic drum
winch in the front and the capstan converted to removeable hydraulic status
- but when I get that lot sorted I will be having some real off-road fun.

Having briefly driven a friends SIII I can honestly say that I'm glad I got
the 90 - if only for the power steering !

TTFN, Simon

===========================================================================
| Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd                               |
| simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk   voice +44 1229 581357  fax +44 1229 581203   |
===========================================================================

------------------------------

From: "Mugele, Gerry" <Gerry.Mugele@wellsfargo.com>
Subject: Joe Lucas appreciation
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 14:05:00 PST

Saturday morning as I stood in the rain with Morgan staring at the 
alternator on my 72 88 I was rather annoyed frustrated and otherwise 
unhappy.  I couldn't go up to Granville's place, meet the crowd, and get mud 
all over the underside of "Gooey".  Arrghhhh.

But upon removing the alternator and investigating thing a bit I 
discovered/realized that this is the original Lucas alternator.  For  22.5 
years it had never given me any trouble and I had, in return, ignored it. 
 Benign neglect is the appropriate phrase I guess.  Ya know, it had never 
occurred to me that the thing could have been THAT reliable.  Amazing.

I think that we may hafta revise our consideration of Joe's legacy...maybe 
he's not the Prince of Darkness but the Prince of diminished light :-).

And as for L-R's in ads...there's a bank TV ad of some sort....nicely 
dressed couple with a Defender 110 ...see the front left fender and open 
hood only....and they're in a desert like Morocco or something and a little 
kid yells something that sounds like Eighty-M...and sez the eighty-m will 
fix everything...the eighty_m turns our to be an ATM  (auto teller 
machine)...

Gerry 72 88

------------------------------

From: "Mugele, Gerry" <Gerry.Mugele@wellsfargo.com>
Subject: Joe Lucas appreciation
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 14:05:00 PST

Saturday morning as I stood in the rain with Morgan staring at the 
alternator on my 72 88 I was rather annoyed frustrated and otherwise 
unhappy.  I couldn't go up to Granville's place, meet the crowd, and get mud 
all over the underside of "Gooey".  Arrghhhh.

But upon removing the alternator and investigating thing a bit I 
discovered/realized that this is the original Lucas alternator.  For  22.5 
years it had never given me any trouble and I had, in return, ignored it. 
 Benign neglect is the appropriate phrase I guess.  Ya know, it had never 
occurred to me that the thing could have been THAT reliable.  Amazing.

I think that we may hafta revise our consideration of Joe's legacy...maybe 
he's not the Prince of Darkness but the Prince of diminished light :-).

And as for L-R's in ads...there's a bank TV ad of some sort....nicely 
dressed couple with a Defender 110 ...see the front left fender and open 
hood only....and they're in a desert like Morocco or something and a little 
kid yells something that sounds like Eighty-M...and sez the eighty-m will 
fix everything...the eighty_m turns our to be an ATM  (auto teller 
machine)...

Gerry 72 88

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:59:30 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: New Subscriber

When I bought my 109", I had to get a classic car loan and full coverage.  
Part of all this was to get two certified appraisals.  I found two guys in 
the phone book who were affordable and seemed to know what a Land Rover is. 
 Then, I compiled a whole passel of recent classified ads from the Aluminum 
Workhorse, RN, and ABP newsletters showing how much similar vehicles were 
selling for.  I also explained how much I thought the vehicle was worth, 
and pointed out significant features and explained how they added to the 
value of the vehicle.  One of the appraisers took pictures of the vehicle 
(from opposite corners, to show rear & one side, and the front and the 
other side.)  

All this added up to two appraisals from, like, professional appraisers 
that *no one* could argue with.  (They were $12,000 and (I think) $10,500.) 
 I showed that to the bank and got the loan; showed it to the insurance 
agent, and got $12K of insurance.  (Of course, they wanted copies of the 
pictures.)

I can get you the the names/addresses/phone numbers of the guys I used, and 
I could even dig out copies of the appraisals.  I also have, hanging on my 
fridge, an ad from the SF Chronicle listing a 109" for sale for $22K.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

From: Sekerere@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 19:29:09 -0500
Subject: 1966 Land Rover Tyres

Well a couple of questions:

My new beast has tyres that look like they are too big for it. They stick out
from the body by 1 - 2 inches. They are 31 x 10.50 15LTs. Can anyone tell me
whether they are too big for this vehicle (88" SWB)?

Also the thing seems to want to veer to either side as I drive it. Almost as
if it wants to follow every crack, bump and ripple in the road. Is this a
problem. My local mechanic has checked the vehicle out and says there isn't
really anything wrong. Maybe it's just the way a LR drives?

Thanks for all your help

Chris W 1966 88" Land Rover

"There are cars, there are trucks, there are 4wds, and then there are Land
Rovers"

------------------------------

From: "Mugele, Gerry" <Gerry.Mugele@wellsfargo.com>
Subject: BRM Rover Turbine
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 17:12:00 PST

>From what can recall it was in 1961 thru 1964 that Rover fiddle with their 
sports racer.  This was the same time period that Chrysler produced a bunch 
of huge Plymouth/Dodge sedans powered by a Turbine and as a test gave or 
leased the things to assorted mere mortals.  Anyway the thing about the 
Rover Racer was that the chassis and body-work were done by BRM I believe 
and the internals were Rover.  All the reports, as I recall, said the power 
was terrific and the throttle response abysmal.  I know it ran at Le Mans in 
1962/1963.   I think it was driven by Richie Ginther, a BRM team driver at 
that time.

A Sports Car mag at the time called Sports Car Graphic...later evolved into 
something else....had a cartoon I loved.  The scene is Le Mans,  the 
start....back when, at the flag,  the drivers ran across the track, jumped 
into their cars and blasted off from diagonal parking positions.  The first 
panel showed the drivers sprinting for their rides, second panel showed them 
taching and then dumping the clutch as they reached about 6K revs  and last 
panel shows all the cars, except the Rover disappearing in the distance. 
 The Rover driver was still sitting there calling out the tach 
readings....45,000....48,000......52,000.    I think it reached power at 
about 60K.  I thought it was cute :-).  BTW the thing had a bizarre, for the 
time appearance.  The exhaust stack was a rather squarish affair canted 
toward the rear at about a 40 degree angle and the remainder of the body was 
not overly handsome.

Gerry 72 88

------------------------------

Date: 02 Feb 95 20:56:54 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: London area RR Goodie Shops

>I'm about to leave for Merrie Englande, home of my forefathers, and
>wondered if any of you netters could recommend any interesting
>places in the London area (accessible by public transport)

Hope this doesn't come too late...
When in London, the one shop you'll want to visit is 'Autoparts Ltd.',
the arguably biggest LR/RR parts centre in London City. They accept
credit cards and ship worldwide. They're located at:

Unit 21, Zennor Road Trade Establishment,
Balham Road, London SW12 0PS,  tel. 0181 675 4022.

It's not exactly an area you would come through as a tourist. Imagine
London, now put your finger on Chelsea - sound familiar? Ok, now move
your finger down and south, cross the Thames, go down past and through
Battersea and Clapham, and you'll eventually come to Balham.
Public transport, either by Underground: Northern Line southbound
via Cannon Street, London Bridge etc., get off at Balham. From there
it's 10-15 min. walk, go up Balham High Road to the north, take
Devonshire Road to the right, when you hit Cavendish Road ask for
Zennor Road (it's a bit hidden). Alternatively by railroad via Clapham
Junction Southbound. London Bus: Tooting Bec southbound (don't know
the number), get off near Balham Station. Good luck! and better brush up
your Cockney in case you have to ask for the way... and, er... see that
you get back before dark...

Have fun,

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

From: "Mugele, Gerry" <Gerry.Mugele@wellsfargo.com>
Subject: Miscellany
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 17:58:00 PST

In talk of differential lubricant...In my first L-R I found that the 
thinker/colder the oil the less it leaked, most of the time anyway.  And the 
hubs got what they needed and didn't pee on the brake drums when the oil was 
cold and thick.  Somebody heard me mention this and suggested I replace the 
90W with 140W.  I'd never heard of 140W and was skeptical...but on my next 
trip to the parts store...there it was.  So I bought a bunch...and shortly 
thereafter snapped a half-shaft...sooo...

Well even in the warm sunshine of late May in California, the stuff is about 
the same consistency as peanut butter (or for you in the UK that's about 
like Guinness Stout  ;^) ....no, please don't hit me) and practically had to 
be applied with a butter knife.  Well all summer long every thing ran 
extremely well and really quietly so I put the stuff in the front end, the 
transfer, main, ...swivel pin housings,  steering box....great stuff I 
thought.

It was mid to late November, at about 10,000 feet in the Sierra when I first 
began to question the wisdom of this cleverness.  After several nights of 
camping in a couple glorious spots I hiked back to Phred early in the 
morning.  He had about half a foot of snow in the spare on the hood and the 
remainder of the bodywork was covered with solid ice that looked like snow. 
 Anyway...when I got in and turned the key I thought the battery had died. 
 It wouldn't crank, just sorta groaned.  Hmmm I thought...well I'm on a 
mountain...this shouldn't be a problem...except this was a very remote and 
untraveled area at that time of year and what if I can't get it to 
go.....!?!!!.  I noticed too,  that the steering wheel seemed not to want to 
move.  Then I tried moving the stick into gear.  The peanut butter/Guinness 
had turned to gelatin epoxy!!!

It took hours of effort just to get it pointed down hill and in position to 
go.  On about a 10% grade I finally got it rolling fast enough to get it to 
4th and to get it to catch before it slowed again.  By then the air temps 
were probably over 50f.

Well it seemed like a good idea at the time...and as long as you don't have 
temps below 50f I'd say the stuff is a moderately good thing to use.

And in the LRO celebrity column....about 20 years ago a kid (early 20s) 
lived a few blocks from me in Sonoma California and had an 88', either a 
late IIa or III.  The kid was Jon Provost,  who played on the Lassie 
television series in the early to late 60's I think.  Never really watched 
that.

I understand he now lives in Santa Rosa Calif, sell real estate and I'm 
told, still owns a series LR.

Also interesting ...
My mechanic's son just emigrated to Calif...until mid January work for a L-R 
dealership in Ireland.  He was saying very nice things about the RR 
4.0S...and that they cost ever more over there!!?!  But, he sez, almost none 
of them have V8s....that's special order only.  They nearly all are equipped 
with a BMW 6 cyl turbo diesel and he loves that engine.  Pity we'll never 
get it.

Gerry 72 88

------------------------------

Subject: Any RTV's this weekend ?  // Two '66 109" for sale in shropshire
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 21:08:44 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

Any RTV's this weekend in the S/W or midlands ?
----

I called up the man who put this add in Feb LRO*and basically, they've both
been in storage for at least a year.  He mentioned that he had been in 
California for a few years, bu never exported them. * pg 223, col2, ad 3
(both the top and bottem ones on pg 223, column 2 are sold already.) 

Both are 5 dr station watongs. The one offered for 495 GBP is 
considered the roadable one, requiring the re-fitting of the rear window,
replacment rear lenses and a few other odds - he was running it form an 
external gas tank, it goes, it stops, but it won't be passing MOT to
drive it home from there...

>From the photograph both rear windows are out as well as the passenger window,
with five door and safari top (alpine windows & sheild)  it is repoted to
have had the body taken off and the chassi repaired as necessary.

The other one is also a 66, requires welding on the center of the rear 
cross member, left hand rear out rigger, and is in a non-running state
at the present time, and he was asking 395GBP

He said some other yank from the london area was due to look at them
saturday morning... I don't think I'll be going up there to check 'em out
unless I decide to got to Manchester this w/e.  (not likely)

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Jacob's Electronics
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 17:55:50 EST

Greg asks:
> Has anybody had any experience dealing with or using ignition products from
> Jacobs Electronics?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)]
> I may be wrong on how this whole thing works but if anybody has some
> thoughts or opinions I sure would like to hear them.

FWIW, and IMHO, the limiting factor on point life, in my land rover
at least, is not the contacts themselves (ie condition thereof) but
degree of wear on the arm that rides on the cam.  I've bought no 
fewer than three sets of points from RN in the past three years, all
of which were "genuine" plastic crappy points.  None were bakalite
(the stuff that lasts for years)-it is much harder material.  Despite
my continued attempts to keep the cam lubed (it is lubed, but...) the
points I've had don't last more than a year.  All of the brand new ones
can achieve the required gap, but only at the very end of the adjustment.
Once the arm wears, they are trash.
OK, so maybe I have a slightly worn distributor...but the shaft doesn't
have that much play in it, and I'm convinced that a brand new set will
be more or less the same in any (proper) distributor (I have the old
style-round cap type).

I'd go with the crane/allison ignition, but I've been told that it does
require that you remove the brass post that your points otherwise
ride on.  If I had another plate, I'd probably go for it (and keep
the plate, points, and condensor in the toolbox just in case), but
as is I don't want to be dependant upon the dreaded black box.

cheers,
rd/nige

------------------------------

From: DCagen@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 22:53:11 -0500
Subject: land vs. range

I'm a new Rover owner (95 Disco) and have enjoyed reading this list for the
last few weeks.  I need a synopsis of Rover history - were Land Rover and
Range Rover two separate companies? And if so, when did they merge? Or just
two nameplates of the same company? Where can I get more historical info?
 Sorry this is so basic.  I want to make sure I understand the heritage of
these noble vehicals.
Thank you.
DCagen@aol.com

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Re: land vs. range
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 00:41:34 -0700 (MST)

DCagen writes:
 
< I'm a new Rover owner (95 Disco) and have enjoyed reading this list for the
< last few weeks.  I need a synopsis of Rover history - were Land Rover and
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
<  Sorry this is so basic.  I want to make sure I understand the heritage of
< these noble vehicals.

All your questions, and more, are answered in Dixon's FAQ, which is on 
the RoverWeb among other things (http://www.missouri.edu/RoverWeb -- hope 
I go that address right!).  The FAQ includes a bibliography.  The Land 
Rover Bible is probably Ken Slavin's LAND  ROVER (Haynes), which just 
went into its 4th edition.  James Taylor's books are also quite good.

In the beginning God created Land Rover.  And God saw the Land Rover, 
that it was good.  And God said It is not good that the Land Rover should 
be alone.  And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Land Rover, 
and he slept: and he took one of his oil leaks, and closed up the tranny 
thereof.  And the oil leak, which the Lord God had taken from Land Rover, 
made he a Range Rover.  And Land Rover said, This is now chassis of my 
chassis, and Lucas of my Lucas: she shall be called Range Rover because 
she was taken out of Land Rover.  And this came to pass in the year of 
our Lord 1970.  Here endeth the lesson.

(In the next lesson, we learn how Landy and Rangey had 2 sons, Def and 
Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??)

T. F. Mills                                              tomills@du.edu
University of Denver Library  2150 E. Evans Ave.  Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 


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