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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Ramp Travel Index
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 9:27:03 GMT

Granville,
Have you ever wondered how the makers of such an excellent
vehicle as the Unimog,could ever produce anything as horrible
as the G-Wagen?Wierd,isnt it?

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: "Mr T.stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Range Rover safety etc.
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 11:49:52 +0000 (GMT)

This issue of safety seems to be a hot topic at the moment. Does anybody
know the actual figures? I understand that that the UK Government
recently published some tables of data concerning the crashworthiness of
a range of vehicles, against considerable vociferous resistance from
various car manufacturers. Has anyone seen this list? Where do the
rovers appear in it?
I understand that in the US this data has been available for some time;
perhaps someone could shed some light on this.
-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(0475) 530581  Fax:(0475) 530601

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Range Rover safety etc.
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 14:39:50 GMT

Not seen the crashworthiness figures Tom,no,but having
seen them,would you beleive them?I'm afraid I would take
them as more of a list of contributors to party funds in
order of magnitude than anything useful.Whilst I would agree
that the way that the tests are carried out are better than
nothing(just),how long has the human frame behaved like a
dummy?Unless,of course,the tests are carried out assuming
that the occupants of the vehcle were all catatonic.Happens
all the time,doesnt it?What I *would* like to see,is some sort
of document (preferably not a statistical list,you can take
stats any way you like)of the effect on vehicles in real life
situations.Like,you dont often hear of anyone sailing blithely
into a crash situation without trying to take some sort of
avoiding action,which modifies the "head on into a brickwall"
scenario considerably,with the effects varying from"phew,that
was close" to "ouch....".
As recently in a local paper."Mrs.........in a Fiat is in hospital
in a serious condition,Mr.........driving a blue Land Rover was
unhurt".
I must admit,I'm deeply sceptical about the worth of the RRL,they
have shown a very "IBM" attitude in the past"We say so,therefore
it must be a fact".And any govt dept can be told to do "research"
to show that so-and-so is true.
The police,among others must have on file accident reports which,
given the right environment,could correlated into a report showing
the resistance of various vehicles to damage in real situations
(which is where it matters,after all).In fact,I wouldnt mind betting
that some vehicles already have a reputation amongst those worthies
for good/bad crash resistance.But you went to the lecture,did the guy
say anyhting along those lines,or was he being Politically Correct?
I would be interested to know.
Cheers

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 08:15:40 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Disco vs. Cheroke... no comparison!

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Disco vs. Cheroke... no comparison!
I too have a Disco, and friends with Cherokes. SHEESH! How could these
two possibly be compared??? Is your brother INSANE? (No offense.) Was he
unloved as a child? Did your parents repeatedly drop him on his head????
Tell you what you do, meet him in front of the state mental institution
(where he no doubt lives) and both of you with your respected vehicles
(using the term loosely in the Cheroke's case.) play "follow the
leader". I WOULD suggest though, that YOU play the leader, otherwise
you'll most likely get bored, going where the Cheroke goes. Some others
have commented already, but compare the brakeover angle, the Disco's is
around TWICE that of the Cheroke, compare wheel travel, awwww heck!
ANYTHING!!! Bottom line, the Disco WORKS! Where the tires hit the trail
is the REAL test! Yeah, you'll probably hear things like: "well, your
tires are better", or "the weight difference makes it", or "mom always
DID love you more!"...

Also, like another mentioned, over time, 2 years (how many times
repaired), 5 years, 10 years, etc... But this is a much more gradual
humiliation for your brother.

I only wish I could be there when you two "battle it out"! (That is, if
you DO decide to do this...) The last time I went out with friends, the
Cheroke was broken down... again! (I think he's just scared!)

Oh yeah! another thing! The Cheroke is a uni-body, and will NEVER EVER
EVER be able to withstand years of use off road, twisting, and flexing
will ultimately break welds, distort the body so the doors won't close
right, and the vehicle will squeak and rattle, announcing it's presence
far in advance everywhere it goes. Let's see the Cheroke go 200,000
miles or MUCH more, as Rovers will go!

I hope I didn't offend you with sarcastic remarks about your brother,
they were not meant for harm, but for emphasis.

P.S. Make sure he brings HIS tow strap, he'll NEED it!
     At best, the Cheroke is a nice "all wheel drive" car, suitable
     for going to the ski slopes and such things. But a SERIOUS
     off road machine??? HA HA HA! My sides are hurting!

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |           thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

Subject: Re: I'm mad as hell & I'm not going to take it anymore... 
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 07:23:02 -0800
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

Here, here! Good show old man, really enjoyed it! Send it to CBS,
which stands for Completely Bullsh*t as opposed to ABC, Absolute
Bullsh*t, and NBC, Normal Bullsh*t.
						Rgds
						Mike Fredette
						Portland, Oregon
						D90, 90 RR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 10:24:18 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: How good are Rovers.

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: How good are Rovers.
Roland,

I have a '94 Discovery which is my first Rover. I can only attest to
mine, but I've research the topic a LOT! Almost any 4WD can be MADE to
be a very capable off road machine, but only the Land Rover (IMO) comes
that way from the factory. What you really need to do is actually GO
LOOK at them. Examine the size of the steering components, frame,
differentials, etc. Then look at the spec's, engine oil capacity,
(7quarts or so) cooling system capacity, (around 3 gallons), Full
floating axles, (will get you home even if one breaks) compare wheel
travel, approach/departure angles, brakeover angle, etc... Then find
someone who owns one, and go out with them! Virtually unstoppable,
called "Unfair! That thing is like a tractor!" by the poor saps who
own a "brand-X".

Sure, you could build up a "brand-X" vehicle to match or maybe even
exceed the Rover, but what would you have? An expensive "brand-X"
vehicle that has little more resale value than what you began with. The
engineering of Rovers "just works" It's that simple. There's a reason
they are preferred for use in the toughest regions all over the world.
They work!

I don't know if this helps, but bottom line is that you will have to
research, and come to your own convictions! My "suspicions" (that
the LR was a great truck) have become convictions upon ownership.

Dave-

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |           thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 09:42:27 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: 	I'm mad as hell & I'm not going to take it anymore...

> From lro-owner@uk.stratus.com Thu Jan 12 20:16 PST 1995
> To: Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.com
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> Jim
> roverheadus pissedoffbigtimum mediadorkus
> jpappa01@interserv.com

  But, I'll bet you swallowed all their BS about "assault rifles" hook, line
and sinker.

R, bg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 10:19:01 -0800
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: RE: How good really?

Roland, you asked about how good are Land-Rovers:

The Land-Rover you describe, whether with V-8 or 4-cyl, with air-lockers 
front and rear, will have few peers.  About the only way to do better off 
road would be to have coil suspension (big improvement and standard on newer 
Land-Rovers, starting about 1983), shorter wheelbase, and a winch.  The 
others you mention will not even be close.  

As a daily driver, the comparison will more or less favor the others.  If 
the '65 lwb LR has a good heater (e.g. Mansfield or Kodiak) it will be O.K. 
as a driver, if distances are short.  The V-8 will certainly help here.  But 
I hope you realize, as you are in U.K., where petrol prices are so high, 
that a V-8 lwb will be very thirsty.  Many in your country favor a diesel 
for economy and good off-road performance.  Some, such as the 200tdi and 
300tdi from Land-Rover and others, that are widely discussed and advertised 
in _Land_Rover_Owner_ International_ and _Land_Rover_World magazines, can 
also give satisfactory on-road performance.  Personally, I hate diesels but 
I live where the price of petrol is a lot cheaper.  I, too, would certainly 
want a V-8.

As you say, the charm of old Land-Rovers is unquestionable. The downside, 
especially with such an old one, is that everything leaks, big-time, 
including the roof, electrical problems, noise, and (with stock 4-cyl) lack 
of power on-road.  But overall reliability is good, they are easy and 
relatively cheap to work on, and the ultimate in durability.

Regarding price, as I live in U.S., I can't help much except to say look at 
ads in back of the abovementioned U.K. magazines for a good indication.  To 
us in U.S., your prices look really cheap.  In fact I have been thinking 
alot about coming over there to look.  :^]

Finally, what is SAR?
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ]
[ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ]

------------------------------

From: Mike Dryfoos <mikedr@microsoft.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 10:18:40 TZ
Subject: Cadillacs and Rovers

Until this past summer, the only Rover dealer in the state of 
Washington was also Seattle's Cadillac dealer.  I always thought that 
was a pretty strange combination, although the embarrassment of going 
to the Cadillac dealer didn't stop me from buying my first Rover there. 
 This summer, the Rovers were moved off to a separate premises under 
the name "Land Rover Seattle", without even the owner's corporate name 
attached.  And yes, they too are creating a Land Rover boutique inside 
the dealership, and trying to sell themselves as a lifestyle concept.

From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@qvarsx.er.usgs.gov>
Subject: Land Rover Boutiques
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 11:48:42 -0800 (PST)

Here's one for the rugged individualist--

Our local Public Radio station this morning carried an item about
Land-Rover setting up Rover Boutiques in their dealerships to sell
Rover-related paraphernalia.  Needless to say, they had a lot of fun
making comparisons with LL Bean and Eddie Bauer.  It also helps explain
why we've seen reports of the Land Rover Logo Police making raids on
unauthorized sellers of Rover-badged stuff.  The Beemer crowd is hot on
the scent of untapped PROFITS.

In Sacramento, the local Cadillac dealership has taken on Rovers, since
the supply of 4X4 Cadillacs has been very small.  It'll be interesting to
see if Cadillac comes up with its own "line-extension".  It boggles the
imagination.

Walt Swain,  1967 109 Safari SW

------------------------------

From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
Subject: Rear differential woes...
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 19:05:04 +0000 (GMT)

Greetings all!

Many weeks have now passed since I dared to add my voice to the weighty 
matters discussed in this forum, in fact I haven't even read the digests 
piling up in my mailbox (the old live list was so much more interactive, 
sigh!) for weeks, but I have, at long last, fixed my rear differential!

Those of you with elephantine memories may recall that sometime in 
mid-November I posted a plea for advice on the possible causes of a total loss 
of drive from the rear (Rover) differential on my 1970 LWB Station Wagon.  I 
didn't get too many responses, if truth be told, but among the few I received 
was one suggestion that the crownwheel bolts had sheered.

Now, being a born sceptic, I was initially disinclined to go along with this 
theory - after all, there are 10 of the damned things, all 3/8 BSF - believing 
instead that either the pinion had moved out of mesh due to a collapsed 
bearing, or that more serious damage had occured.  In fact, when I drained the 
oil, and felt around inside the drain plug, sure enough I found some sheared 
bolt heads, and when I took the diff out, I did indeed find that all 10 had 
sheared.  I can't imagine the 2.25 develops sufficient torgue to do that kind 
of damage even in low ratio.  I wonder how long it took for them to go and 
why?  Have I been driving around with some of them broken for years?  Who 
knows.

Anyway, the gears were unmarked apart from a slight chip on one crownwheel 
tooth, so I elected to clean it all up and fit new bolts.  Some attention with 
a file was needed to remove odd ridges and spurs of metal where the bolt heads 
had gouged the surface of the crownwheel carrier, but, all in all, damage was 
essentially cosmetic.  Removing all the metal fragments (and swarf from the 
drill where I had to use a stud-extractor to remove the ends of two stubborn 
bolts from the crownwheel) was a nightmare, however, and it took me half a 
back-breaking day, and several changes of paraffin to achieve.

I got it all assembled and was feeling quite pleased with myself, when Sod 
stepped in and asserted his unwavering Law - as I was tightening the new bolts 
to the recommended 60-70 ft/lbs., one bolt decided it had enough at about 
55-60 ft.lbs and sheared!  You can imagine how I felt, since I had to use the 
stud-extractor to the get the bloody thing out again!  More swarf!

I finally got it all put back together today, and took it for a spin - no 
untoward noises, so hopefully all will be well.  What a relief.

Now all I have to do is change the gearbox, fix the wiper motor, fit a new 
horn, sort out the play in the steering...etc., etc. and then get a new MOT!

Talking of play in the steering, has anyone, if you've not all fallen asleep 
by now, any suggestions as to possible causes and rememdies of the 
aforementioned ailment?

Thanks for listening!

Marcus.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 14:15:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: RE: How good really?

On Fri, 13 Jan 1995, Granville Pool wrote:

> Finally, what is SAR?

	Search and Rescue (at least that's what it stands for in Canada)

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Rear differential woes...
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 14:48:53 EST

> Talking of play in the steering, has anyone, if you've not all fallen asleep 
> by now, any suggestions as to possible causes and rememdies of the 
> aforementioned ailment?

Assuming your tie rod ends are in fine shape (maybe not), simply adjust your
steering box as per manual instructions.....jack up the front end, loosen
the locknut on the side of your steering box, tighten until you've begun
to feel some friction at the steering wheel, then back off just a tad until 
you don't (I think the manual suggests something like 1/8 of a turn or
some such).

cheers,
rd
and nigel

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 12:45:43 PST
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re: Jeep Cherokee vs Discovery

Hard to believe the Jeep is better off-road!? I would have thought its low
underbelly would be a nuisance for one thing, and I doubt it has the wheel
travel of the Disco. Maybe, knowing 4WD & Off Road, their technique
is to use the 5 liter V8 to charge at any obstacle fast enough to get
to the other side by sheer momentum!

Iff you have any details of the off-road sections of the test they would be
interesting.

Cheers

John Brabyn

------------------------------

From: "Mr T.stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Range Rover safety etc.
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 19:54:49 +0000 (GMT)

As I understood it, the recently published Government report did deal
with actual accident statistics and was not based on 'laboratory' crash
testing of vehicles. This was the reason why the car manufacturers were
so opposed to its publication.
I suppose that insurance actuaries would have the best information,
since they are betting money on vehicles' safety. Having said this, I
was recently quoted 700 pounds p.a. by Swintons to insure a 1962 IIa SWB
in my wife's name. Even though it was her first car insurance in her own
name, I thought that this was a bit excessive for an old Land Rover.
When I queried the amount with Swintons, I was told that it was an old
car and had a large capacity engine. I pointed out that it needed a
large engine to drag its two-ton weght around and was capable of only 65
mph downhill with a following wind, but they refused to reduce their
quote. In the end, the vehicle was insured for one third the sum with a
specialist insurer from the pages of LRO mag.
The police officer who gave the lecture on RTA investigation would not
be pressed into naming makes of car, but as I said before told us that a
large 4x4-type vehicle with a separate chassis offered in his opinion
the best crash protection for its occupants. Ultimately, it is the
drivers that make cars dangerous, not the cars themselves.
After years of living on Cumbrae with its low traffic density and
relaxed pace of life, I now find it fairly stressful to drive in busy
city traffic having lost the killer instincts developed when I lived in
the Big Smoke. However, I have discovered that wearing a flat cap and
holding a piece of straw between my teeth whilst driving the Land Rover
in town makes city drivers give me a wider berth!
Enough of this rambling; I've been working too late tonight, so I'm off
doon the pub for a wee swally before supper.
Cheers!
-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(0475) 530581  Fax:(0475) 530601

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Suburbans
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 17:20:13 EST

So's I'm on the phone last night, speaking with a perspective
seller of a used auto (needed to replace Gretchen, the one that
got smashed up a few weeks back by a driver who needs lessons..
not I, thank you)....eventually I get around to asking him
"So, do you drive this car in the winter??"  to which he replies
"No, I've got a Range Rover for that" to which I reply "Oh, good
for you, my other car is a Land Rover as well, a '60 Series II
short wheel based model".

He asks "Isn't that a Toyota?"

Oi.

rd/nigel

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 18:09:01
Subject: Discovery headlights
From: johnwats@galaw.win.net (John H. Watson)

Does anybody know if Eurporean/German H4 headlamp units are readily
interchangable with the U.S. Discovery units?  The Euro style
light pattern is vastly superior.  I have always changed them out
on Mercedes, which required extensive changes, but the Discovery
looks to be merely changing the lamp units themselves.
        Thanks for any tips. 

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Re: Cadillacs and Rovers
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 20:48:28 -0700 (MST)

There must be a pattern to this Cadillac-Rover thing that Mike Dryfoos 
and Walt Swain mention.

I have just written a profile of Red Noland, North American Land Rover 
dealer of the year ('94) for the Colorado Rover newsletter.  He spent all 
his life selling Cadillacs and developing a fine reputation at it.  In 
1987, RRNA approached him saying "you're our kind of guy."  He admits he 
had never heard of Range Rover or Land Rover, but he took the bait 
(without ever giving up Cadillac), and he is now one of the first in the 
US to build one of these fancy new Rover boutiques called "adventure 
centres".

I also just took over as editor of same newsletter, so herewith follows a 
shameless solicitation for subscriptions:  it's $16 for 6 issues payable 
to Solihull Society, PO Box 916, Monment, CO 80132.  The Jan/Feb issue 
is a 20-pager and contains the Red Noland profile.  Our net friend, the 
baloney slicer is also in that issue with an exclusive piece that even 
the rest of you car-list-rejects haven't seen.

T. F. Mills                                              tomills@du.edu
University of Denver Library  2150 E. Evans Ave.  Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 23:51:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Suburbans

Russell sez....
 
> So's I'm on the phone last night, speaking with a perspective
> seller of a used auto (needed to replace Gretchen, the one that
snip
> "No, I've got a Range Rover for that" to which I reply "Oh, good
> for you, my other car is a Land Rover as well, a '60 Series II
snip
> He asks "Isn't that a Toyota?"
> Oi.
none

Thunk....

So....Did you buy the car or did you do the right thing and tell the bozo
what an Idiot he was... (And they wonder why we say Bad Things about people
with Range Rovers)

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

 

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 23:51:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re:     I'm mad as hell & I'm not go

Jim Pappa proves for once and all that he *can* use all 10 fingers to type..

> I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore...
> I'm really getting tired of the press sounding sirens, bells, strobe
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> ripping out hunks `o hair everytime a 4WD vehicle is involved in an
> incident 
----etc, etc, etc-----------
> mph? Why don't we all of a sudden hear that all vehicles that weigh under
> 2500 pounds are unsafe for human consumption?
------snip!-------------------
Eat steel and die, sucker!  :)

> I've really had it. Today there was some dork on "Good Morning America"
> who was lamenting that the Land Rover Discovery and Defender 90
> displayed (all of a sudden with no empirical data) the worst stability
> of any SUV sold in America! Can you dig this? Another asshole shooting
> from the hip. We 
------snip!---------------
Uh, oh.. I can just picture Jim... Nostrils flaring, eyes bugged out about
15 inches.. steam blowing from his ears with that "noon-whistle" sound. How
do *you* spell upset?? 

> basically unassuming public - they deserve better. Much as we deride the 
> competition, even they deserve better. Remember the 60-minutes torpedoeing
> of the Jeep CJ-7? A basically decent off-roader. A couple of yahoos
> rolled one over for the cameras and bang - unsafe!
------snip!--------------
Oh, god, he frothing at the mouth!! He's standing up for (shudder) Jeeps!

> And another thing...
> competition, even they deserve better. Remember the 60-minutes torpedoeing
Well, Jim.. for once, you actually made sense. And, for Pete's sake, quit
watching "Goot Morning Amerika"... It will rot your brain!

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
 

------------------------------

From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 20:54:24 PST
Subject: Re: 	I'm mad as hell - the sequel

Just as I suspected - the Good Morning America debacle was nothing more than 
some douche bag author trying to promote a book! A stupid attempt to cash in 
on the hottest segment of the automotive industry - sport utilities. So let's 
pick the two very vehicles that have been voted Four Wheeler Of The Year in 
consecutive years! I despise even more than this asshole the scumbag network 
C**TS that allow this drivel to even have a venue or any type - let alone 
national television. 

LRNA is debating whether or not to let this slide (wait and see if any damage 
is done) or to sick the legal jerkoffs on ABC's legal jerkoffs. I say its high 
time that these brain dead dross are held accountable for their actions. So 
make it loud and clear that unfounded and absurd claims will be costly. 
Journalism my ass... 

The quick and dirty on this jabone is this .... as I aluded to yesterday, 
there IS NO empirical evidence (nuthin') to support his instability claims. 
Are you ready for this? His "findings" were the result of some COMPUTER 
MODEL!! Yes! Not one incident of an actual rollover could be documented in 
this numbnut's "data." Real world? What's that? And using NHTSA standards that 
are not only obsolete but have BEEN REPLACED! Holy moly Batman! This is "gimme 
an airsick bag material." I beg for prospects to come into the dealership and 
present me with an opportunity to set the record straight. I hope with all my 
might that this stinking television network is held accountable for letting 
unverified and clearly FALSE information to be presented as fact to a viewing 
audience of millions! This is disgusting. Next we'll have another stagetop 
lineup of gay, inbred, intergenerational mutants who will appear on Geraldo, 
Gordon Elliot, Oprah, Montel, and the rest of the trash mongers who will swear 
that their abbey normal behavior and disfigured bodies were a direct result of 
some ghastly encounter in a Land Rover or other sport utility vehicle...

The media in this country has reached the depths of total lack of control in 
any type of professional (read objective) reporting. Its stricly sound bites, 
quick and easy ratings, and any bit of garbage that is coincident with any 
controversial (notice the rover root of that last word) piece of horse twap 
that can be served up in a 9.95 expose.

Auto manufacturers are spending millions and millions each year to satisfy the 
ever-increasing stacks of bureaucratic, regulatory and litigatory overlays 
which are now pervading everything we own, eat, breathe and sleep with, on, 
near, far, etc. etc. Even something as basic as the Best 4x4xfar is being 
challenged daily. But it works. The Defender 90 is still as fun as ever. Do 
you think that back in`58 that Land Rover would have envisioned having their 
workhorse still able to meet U.S. (toughest in world) standards 35 years 
later?? Is it possible that ANYTHING could stay in production (and increase 
every year) that long if it was inherently unsafe? I don't think so...

To ABC and this dipshit I quote Khan; "With my last breath, I spit at thee!"

regards

Jim
roverheadus stillfuminum atallofem

jpappa01@interserv.com

------------------------------

Subject: Rollover
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 22:27:14 -0800 (PST)
From: "Kelly Minnick" <kminnick@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>

RE: Rollover
Yes, the follow-up report for the CJ 'S' bend at high speed was that the 
vehicle was tested special for 60 minutes and had been run through this
test more than 700 times.  Weights were added in the rear outside corners
to produce the rolls, but were justified in that one might carry a load
in this position (yeah right- 200 lbs of lead down by the rear spring
perch).  The Audi thing: Incedent #1 - some guy got the bright idea to
modify his auto trans and actually ran high pressure hydraulic lines outside
of the trans that could be controlled from the drivers' seat....  The second
accident took place where a lady ran over her own son.  In the police report
she told the police that she steped down to hit the brakes, but her foot 
slipped off the brake and onto the gas pedal...  When the media story came
out, she had her foot on the brake and the engine reved and the car continued
in its forward path (actually accelerated).... Hmm!??

The moral of the story is that many people speak without facts (mee too). I
am paid not too, but sometimes my ego gets to me (I just KNOW that a Disco
is better than a Cherokee!). I have had my '64 88" at a > 40 degree where
I could not sit in the seat and we put a strap across the top to keep the
beast from tipping over.  And the engine ran without a drop in oil pressure.
(is that why they run so much oil in these things daddy??). I have been
out numerous times with my friends in their jeeps with whimpy frames and
shock mounts and spring mounts that have been re-welded many times. One time
the guys engine (standard 6 cyl) broke the motor mnts and tore the oil
filter right off. It was fun towing him.  Another time his steering mechanism
somehow opened up his drain tap to the radiator (poor location!).  Well, at
104 F, it didn't take long and I was towing him (let alone his re-build).
ANY vehicle can get stuck, roll-over, get smashed, etc.  We are silly if we
think otherwise! (sorry about the length...)
Kelly Minnick  '73  88" Safari
Ridgecrest, CA

P.S. Finished painting the rear box and it is now sitting in place waiting for
the paint to cure so I can bolt it down!

------------------------------

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