Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents

[ First Message Last | Table of Contents | <- Digest -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]

The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Send Submissions

Subject: Re: Brake Booster
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 23:52:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Kelly Minnick" <kminnick@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>

RE:Brake boost pipe 

On Tue, 10 Jan 1995, Kelly Minnick wrote:
> > barrel Webber carb, but the stock LHD brake boost pipe that comes off the
> > manifold does not clear the carb.  Is there a LR replacement part?  Do I just
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> 	fitting.  Bend the pipe, the adapter from LR isn't that cheap.
> 	Rgds,
My emmisions page in my LR manual shows the PCV (mini-Frisbee) attaching to
this 1/2" port on the carb adaptor.  I did bend my stock pipe and it will
fit (barely), but I must remove the carb if I ever need to remove the pipe.

Also, while I'm at it, the USA (CA?) SIII had a 'cam' on the Zenith throttle
shaft that actuated a vacuum retard switch.  1.  Is this needed?  2. Where
do you get them???  Thanks for all of your help!
Kelly Minnick  '73 88" Safari
Ridgecrest, CA

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Brakes, 1st 2nd or 3rd pump??
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 19:19:15 +1030 (CST)

Ok So I forgot who posted the original question.  Digest mode does that to ya
:-(
As for the beast with the pump-upable brakes.  If you are sure its not air in
the system, check the adjustment carefully.  As I understand it L-R's are a
little fussy if the shoes get too thin (undersize).  My old 2a would have
great brakes for the first pedal depression after adjustment.... after that
it took several pumps.  Turned out a set of (correctly) oversize shoes cured
the prob. 
The following is relevant to snail-cam adjusted shoes only.
  The other problem i had was putting the rear shoes on back to
front (g)  This resulted in the shoes "de-adjusting" themselves.  Make sure
the pins are in good condition as I've also had shoes which jumped off of
the adjusting cams on rough roads.

Five pumps to a firm pedal really sounds like a volume problem, if its free
of air.  Might pay to clamp off the individual flexible hoses to track down
the problem.   You may of course have incorrect sized cylinders. 
Terri-ann knows all about this (g)

To the guy with the Rangie with dicky brakes.  I second the "shot master"
motion.  Sounds like its bypassing internally.

Craig, Dream On, "power" from your Diesel   (nomex suit on)  Diesels have
lots of endearing qualities but "power" ????   

Hope we can get together at a combined LRRSA and LROV do sometime and discuss
this delusion you seem to be under (if the heirachy bother to go through with
it :-( ) .

Well I'm off home to talk seriously to my L-R about her carby problem, I mean
fancy having to clean out the Carbs after only 7 years.....
 -- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

From: "Mr T.stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Bleeding Brakes!
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:00:13 +0000 (GMT)

I have  always found the pedal pumping method of brake bleeding to be
very time consuming, particularly on LWB vehicles. Clamping the wheel
cylinders so that the pistons can't move (less fluid to change)
sometimes works, but I have had best success with the brake bleeding kit
made by Gunsons in the UK. The kit consists of a bottle to act as an
extra large fluid reservoir which is connected via a sealing cap to the
vehicle brake fluid reservoir. The whole system is pressurised using a
line to a spare tyre. Keeping an eye on the fluid levels, all you have
to do is open each wheel cylinder nipple in turn (with a pipe over it
into a jar of clean fluid etc). No pedal pumping, and it's a one man
job. You may have to remove some fluid from the vehicle reservoir
afterwards since it gets filled to the brim.
I hope this info is of some use; it is a lot easier than any other
method I have tried.
Cheers!
-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(0475) 530581  Fax:(0475) 530601

------------------------------

From: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com <John_Hong@3mail.3Com.COM>
Date: 11 Jan 95  2:21:51 EDT
Subject: Baloney sez...

Ho boy!   Me thinks maloney man used to anal-eyes spy sat fotos for uncle 
sam...anyway

>>From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
>>Subject: HO HO HONG!  etc

>>As I pound away at my keyboard, there sits in front of me a photo of a red 
>>topless III 88 with the tallest Korean I've ever seen with a red & green 
elf's 
>>hat and a Poinsettia plant in the spare tire (and a wreath on the late IIA 
>>galvanized grille).   Great picture, John.  From what I can see it is has a 
>>standard hood, no top or hoops, some sort of jerry can carrier in the back, 
>>lamp protectors front & rear, D-rings on the front bumper, NO CORROSION in 
the 
>>rear bed where the seatbelt brackets meet the bed, and hub seals that sling 
>>more oil than Ben Smith's 88 (but less than Steve Denis's 109).  My questions 

I opened up the "dirt road oiling" hub last week thinking I would replace one 
of them hub oil seals - but seeing as how I just finished dorking with my 
clutch slave cylinder and 2 rear brake jobs (one drum was a real BEAR) and i 
was kinda tired I just degreased the surfaces and put some of that fancy 
silicone sealant and bolted it back on - dry!  Later that evening I ran a hot 
water hose from the kitchen and hosed out the underbody/engine compartment - I 
musta knocked off 20 pounds of grease/dirt clods!   Sigh - one day my own 
pressure washer!

>>for John are:
>>1. What is the purpose of the 1" X 1/2" wooden stud bolted/glued to the top of
>>   your windscreen?

Stainless Carriage bolts go thru the wood and I use wing nuts on the other side.
Used to hold down my homemade bikini top that flapped like hell above 40 mph - 
now it holds down the front edge of my plexiglass bikini top that works real 
nice but looks kinda strange.
We've been having record rain fall in this part of CA but this roof has worked 
fine - I'm actually regretting ordering my canvas top!  The plexi is slightly 
tinted bronze and is definitely transparent - great visibility!

>>2. There seems to be a long boxlike object protruding under the LH seat.  It 
>>   looks too small for a fuel tank from this angle.  I'm puzzled.
Hmmm...must be the angle - it is a standard 13 gal fuel tank.

>>3. Have you built some sort of storage box in the back?
I actually have 3 large tool boxes bolted to a plywood "deck" which makes a 
compartment with opening covered by the tail gate.

>>4. What is that vertical tubular holder welded to your bulkhead just below the
>>   LH windscreen hinge?  A toilet plunger holder?
I was hoping you could tell me!  It came that way - the joke was you could put 
a flag into the 4 inch long pipe on each side - just like them embassy limos!  
Toilet plungers is a divine idea - look for them in next year's holiday 
greeting card!

>>5. What is the pipe frame set up that is fitted into the hoop holes that 
>>   extends 2-4" from the body cappings?  A roll bar for the vertically 
>>   challenged?

This is the vestigial remnant of my "rear hoop" for my bikini "sail" - now I 
use it to support the rear edge of the plexi roof.  The bars that run fore/aft 
3" above the body cappings allow the top of the hoop to be stored 6ish" away 
from the front hoop holes and also serve as grab handles/tie down points.   
I've got some small cleats snuck in all around too.

>>"BAH HUMVEE"?  I like it!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:09:35 -0500
From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner)
Subject: Re: Alternators revisted!

>Subject: Alternators
>OK...maybe the collective wisdom of the 'net can sort out the mysticisms of
>Lucas electrics....
none
Sandy

I'm not too sure if I will be able to solve your alternator problem, but it
sounds very similar to the symptoms I was experiencing. Thanks for the info
on ss window channel, I'll see if I can find some at our local marine shops
and if not I will be in touch

When I took my alternator in for repair they said that said that the stator
and the voltage regulator had to be replaced. It worked fine after that,
except for the incident before XMAS when a wire broke inside. It is working
fine now!

Since they have replaced the regulator on your unit and it works fine
during testing, I am not too sure what else to advise. The next step would
seem to be having the unit tested in the LR, to see if it is in the wiring
somewhere.

Good Luck!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:20:53 -0500
From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner)
Subject: RE: Vacuum brake boost line

Kelly

I have a SIII with a single weber carb too. When I fitted the carb I
replaced the stock boost pipe, with one I made out of copper pipe (easy to
bend) and a brass ferrule and brass nut which fit the manifold outlet. I
flared the other end of the copper pipe slightly, so the hose would grip
when pushed over it. I made a nice bend around the fuel inlet pipe. Works
great!

Let me know how you like your weber carb, the only problem I have not
sorted out yet is adjusting the linkage so that the throttle opens
completely when the accelerator is depressed fully. Not really a problem
though as the LR runs fine as is!

Hope this helps!

 Richard

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 09:26:56 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Alternators

Heading off for four days skiing...and I *think* I've solved the alternator
problems.  The weather forecast is the worst possible though: sunny and warm.

Anyway, I started checking resistances in all of the alternator-related
wiring last night and found variable resistance in one, signaling a partial
internal break (the field wire to the alternator).  For all the rest of the
terminals, I cut off the existing ones, tinned the wire, then crimped *and*
soldered the connection.   Unfortunately, the ignition wire to the solenoid
*fell* off due to corrosion - that has been soldered back on, with a blob
of epoxy to hold the tab in place.  That part has not yet been tested.  But
since I'm headed to the mountains, finding un-level palces to park
shouldn't be too hard if it doesn't work.

One lesson learned...in replacing wiring, use marine-grade *tinned* multi-
strand.  Some of the original wires had almost turned to copper dust.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jan 95 10:08:58 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Range Rover fatality

It's always tough to have a myth - or illusion - destroyed, but we all have 
to face reality sooner or later, even as Rover owners...
Those of you in Britain, see if you can get hold of a copy of The Guardian
of Dec.31 1994 and turn to page 10. There is an absolutely ghastly photo of
the remains of a Range Rover that was totally flattened and destroyed in
an self-caused accident in which members of a prominent english family,
Efrahim Rottman with his two sons and a daughter, were all killed.
The crash happened in the french Alps, 50 miles north of Nice, in broad
daylight on dry road. At a zig-zag-crossing before a narrow bridge where
the vehicle must negotiate a 90-degrees sharp right turn to enter the bridge,
the Range Rover had crashed through a steel barrier, plunged 20 meters deep 
into a ravine and landed on its roof, killing its occupants immediately.
The experts are speculating about the causes (high speed has been ruled out
for various reasons), and among those pinpointed are supposedly some 4WD -
related glitches, e.g. that he may have had the diff locked when negotiating
the bridge and lost control trying to disengage it as he accelerated away,
which could suddenly release a drivetrain-windup and cause the car to 'jump'.
The paper continues to observe that "...a four-wheel skid can be worse than
its two-wheel equivalent. A driver can correct more easily with two free, 
spinning wheels."  They point out that in the United States all 4WD vehicles
are required to carry a notice saying "This vehicle handles and manoeuvres
differently from many passenger cars both on and off road - if you make 
sudden sharp turns or abrupt manoeuvres you may cause this vehicle to go out
of control and roll over and crash. You or your passengers may be seriously
hurt".
Is this true??

Disillusioned,

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>
87' RR | 73' S.III 109 Station

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 09:55:22 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Brake booster pipe

Kelley has found that the Weber carb fouls on the vacuum pipe to the brake
booster on the Series III manifold.  When I fitted a Holley years ago, I
had the same problem.  Went to a hydraulic supply shop and got a suitable
right angle fitting for four bucks.  The only problem is the thread/pitch
in the manifold.  It's unusual (anf I can't remember what it is), but the
shop had no problems finding the correct fitting.  It's still in use,
though I've gone back to Zenith.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 09:30:05 -0600
From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)
Subject: land rover mailing list admin address down?

Over the past couple of days I have gotten a few messages from people
trying to subscribe to the lro list after seeing the address on the
RoverWeb. Is the address I'm publishing wrong
(land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com) or is the listserver acting up???

Please cc Roland Sonnenburg <sonnenbr@ucs.orst.edu> in your response.

I have sent this note once to stratus and got this reply:

   ----- The following addresses had delivery problems -----
land-rover-owner-reqeust@chunnel.uk.stratus.com  (unrecoverable error)
    (expanded from: <land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to chunnel.uk.stratus.com.:
>>> RCPT To:<land-rover-owner-reqeust@chunnel.uk.stratus.com>
<<< 550 <land-rover-owner-reqeust@chunnel.uk.stratus.com>... User unknown
550 land-rover-owner-reqeust@chunnel.uk.stratus.com... User unknown

Greg

>From: Roland Sonnenburg <sonnenbr@ucs.orst.edu>
>Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 02:00:45 -800
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>my mail keeps bouncing.  Is there a new address? Thanks,
>Roland Sonnenburg

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:31:40 -0500
Subject: Spare Tank

I mounted a second fuel tank on my '70 IIa shortly after I bought it (new).
 The tank, as it came from Rover, was filled by a large pressurized cap under
the driver's seat.  It had one-way  pressure valve in the cap to let air in
as the gas was drawn down.  The only other connection was the gas siphon.
 This setup may have worked well in the mild climate of Solihull, but where I
was working at the time (Death Valley, summertime), the tank could not hold
the pressure (you CAN fry eggs on the hood of your car - done it) and would
bleed fumes into the car.  I solved the problem by cutting an old tank siphon
off just below the fitting, and bolting it through new holes drilled in the
top of the tank.  It was very easy to get a good seal since you gan get your
hole hand & tools through the filler hole and bolt it tight from the inside.
 I then ran a vent line that spliced into the main tanks vent to the filler
neck (1970 was not a sealed system).  It's worked fine ever since.

------------------------------

From: BwanaE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:50:14 -0500
Subject: more 6-cylinder ramblings

For John Hess:

Ref. parts availability, I have had no problems obtaining 6-cyl parts thru
the previously mentioned British Rovers (800-LD-ROVER). Tom has advised me
that the only parts no longer available are waterpump 
assy. and  .040 pistons & rings. Everything else needed from tune-ups to
overhauls is available.

Speaking of overhauls, an interesting (but sad) story about my "baby". When I
saw you at the meet in Palo Alto, she was indeed running sweetly with only
14,000 miles on a major overhaul. Soon afterward however, oil consumption
began a steady increase accompanied by a corresponding drop in compression. I
finally drove her to Redding for Tom @ British Rovers to pull the head and
diagnose. Please note at this point that the previously mentioned overhaul
was performed by British Car Specialists of Stockton, Ca. not (to my chagrin)
by Tom. The findings: cylinder bores heavily scored and all bottom end
bearings showing showing wear reminescent of 100,000 miles. What the hell !!!
Tom and Dave(his engine guy) were scratching their heads over this until last
week when Dave dismantled my oil pump (as part of the overhaul they're now
performing) and found the cause of my engine's woes ....  the small steel
ball in the oil pressure relief valve was missing ! The spring and plunger
were there, but without the ball the bulk of the pump's output was being
constantly and uselessly shunted right back into the oil pan... resulting in
just enough oil pressure to keep the idiot light out but not enough to
prevent excessive and premature engine wear.

Epilog:
a) Writing a "nice" letter to British Car Specialists in Stockton explaining
my opinion of their wokmanship.
b) British Rovers is doing a .030 rebore and overhaul. Estimate is $3000. I
should have gone to him first.
c) First thing to go into my "baby" when I get her back is a shiny new 
oil pressure gauge.

Ah... the things we do for the ones we love !

Regards, Eric. 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 08:56:10 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: How the LR Discovery can climb "anything"

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: How the LR Discovery can climb "anything"
Several others have already responded to the question on how my
Discovery can climb better than the Trooper, but I'll reiterate: In this
particular case, it was a combination of driver skills, wheel travel,
and possibly the locking transfer case (locking the power 50/50
front/rear). The particular section of hill had deep ruts (no doubt from
others getting stuck) so I think the most contributing factor was the
wheel travel. I HAVE had 1 wheel off the ground several times, and once
I even stopped the truck to see what it looked like while the truck was
almost perfectly balanced to where with 1 hand I could make either the
left rear, or the right front tire come off the ground. I will attest -
VAST wheel travel! Also of note, while in this position, there was NO
frame flexing! This really IS ONE TOUGH TRUCK! Designed to last a
lifetime.

In reference to the "How do they use aluminum and steel together"
thread, as for the Land Rover, they isolate the two materials with nylon
or plastic. While doing a repair to the Discovery I noticed that a rivet
used to attach a steel support bracket to a part of the aluminum body
had a plastic or nylon insulator between the two metals. (Threw me off
for just a few seconds... "What the... Ohhhhh!!! Cool!!!") Ya just
can't rewrite the laws of nature, they must be abided to or you pay
the price... Dave....

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |           thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:59:55 -0500
Subject: News?

This may be news to the Navy, but Rover owners have known it all along.  In
today's Wall Street Journal: LUCAS'S $18.5 MILLION FINE FOR WORK ON NAVY JET
UNDERSCORES SAFETY FEARS.  It seems that "Lucas (yes our Lucas) is the sole
supplier of the gear boxes which provide electrical power and drive hydraulic
and oil pumps on the F/A 18".  "the Navy conceeds that the parts are lasting
only about half as long as required."  Facing an additional $100 million in
civil fines "Prosecutors and criminal investigators stressed safety problems
posed by the Lucas parts, which they said ranged from reports of F/A 18
engine fires and metal shavings found in the plane's oil system to the crash
of one aircraft on a combat mission during the 1991 war with Iraq."

At least when Lucas poops out on me, I can coast to the side of the road.  Oh
yes, Lucas also provides these same parts to Boeing for the 757 & 767.  Happy
flying.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:31:27 -0600
From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)
Subject: Re: land rover mailing list admin address down?

>Greg,
>You spelt request wrong.You put reqeust.Cause maybe?
>Cheers
>Mike Rooth
none

Mike -

It sure looks like that is a problem but it appears that it is going on at
their end and not mine - see the following transcript -

   ----- The following addresses had delivery problems -----
land-rover-owner-reqeust@chunnel.uk.stratus.com  (unrecoverable error)
    (expanded from: <land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com>)

I used land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com which at some point is getting
expanded to land-rover-owner-reqeust@chunnel.uk.stratus.com which contains
the mispelling.

Now the question is - where is this expansion happening and is the real
correct address land-rover-owner-request@chunnel.uk.stratus.com

Thanks for pointing that out.

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:25:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: land rover mailing list admin address down?

Greg, on those transcript of session.
The word request is spelled wrong, ie; reqeust
Try your lucas spellchecker
later
Jon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:52:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stuart H. Moore-Roanoke College" <SMOORE@acc.roanoke.edu>
Subject: Series IIa diesel for sale

There is a fellow named Jim in Roanoke, Virginia that has a 1967
IIa diesel for sale and I told him I would put it on the list for
him.  Here is what I saw:

     Frame seems to be in good shape-didn't examine carefully
though
     Tan paint < 1 year old
     33,000K original miles
     Locally owned since new
     Standard 15 inch wheels and near original tires (1970)
     No overdrive
     No lockable hubs-just solid drive axle
     Seats recovered recently with light grey cloth
     All parts seem to be there
     Needs headliner
     Needs new floor metal around transmission and on kick plates
     Needs rougher tires-has probably never been off-road
     Needs some new gaskets around doors, front vents, etc.
     Needs side view mirrors for front fenders

The body on this vehicle is very straight and I didn't detect much
bondo.  I started and ran very well.  Smokes ALOT!  Probably normal
for Rover diesel.  He is asking $8500 for the vehicle and his
number is (703) 776-1563.  Out of my price range but I hope another
rover lover can pick it up.

                                             Later,

                                                  Stuart Moore
                                                  1961 Series II

p.s. I'm still looking for an overdrive for my series II!  Thanks!

------------------------------

Subject: Cam on Zenith for vacuum retard 
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:19:32 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199501110752.XAA19755@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote:

> Also, while I'm at it, the USA (CA?) SIII had a 'cam' on the Zenith throttle
> shaft that actuated a vacuum retard switch.  1.  Is this needed?  2. Where
> do you get them???  Thanks for all of your help!

	From what I was told by a local mechanic, if the factory put it on,
its required.  For my 72 SIII he specifically was looking for this when 
he was telling me what was required for 1972.  I'm hoping that the
exemption for the Zenith will also cover not having the vacuum retard.

	I do have a bracket with the vacuum switch (I don't know if it works).
If I can get the exemption, you can have the switch if you need it.
 
-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications International Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 11:09:26 PST
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re: Which one?

The hidden door hinges came in on the later 89 RR models.
There is more body sway -- the price of a more flexible suspension which
is better off road. Swaybars were introduced purely for on-road performance.
after being resisted for a long time; they hurt off-road traction regardless
of what spin the advertising department puts on them.

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 11:14:25 PST
Subject: Re: 	DISCO award & congrats at BAJA!

I read with trembling hands the FWOTY article in Feb 4-wheeler (we had had the 
cover at the dealership for over a month) and it was, as expected - 
outstanding! Two FWOTY's in two years - not bad, Land Rover! I particularly 
loved the part (as did the testers) where the Disco won over the field in 
"BEST FIT AND FINISH" (gasp!). The testers remarked that "if someone had told 
us five years ago that a Land Rover would have the best ventilation system and 
best fit and finish that we wouldn't have believed him" Way to go, guys! 
Actually, the article DID mention several references to RTI (ramp travel 
index), and as expected the DISCO walked away with it (somewhere around 518 
RTI as opposed to nearest competitor at around 430).

the good news just keeps on commin'...

Congrats to Brit team of John Saxton and Graham Roberts who finished the Baja 
1000 FIRST IN CLASS (full stock) in a Defender 110 over the works HUMVEES 
("bah, humvee!")! Yesseree Bob, them Land Rovers are mighty fine! The scary 
part of all this great Land Rover news lately is that how long will it take 
the competition to finally realize just how good (despite the niggles and 
wiggles) that Rovers really are? Let `em keep giving the Ford freaks their 
"kleenex dispensers" and we'll settle for "state of the art suspension design 
and unmatched off-road performance." Yeah, man!

regards all

Jim
roverheadus stonehengian bigfoothumblerato

jpappa01@interserv.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 14:19:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Alternators

Sandy illuminates;

>One lesson learned...in replacing wiring, use marine-grade *tinned* multi-
>strand.  Some of the original wires had almost turned to copper dust.

Sandy, this reminds me of one that happened to me in my old 67 volvo.
It must have been the origional coil wire, but while driving through a
parking lot I heard a loud bang and the car stopped dead. The coil wire
had litteraly *exploded* about one inch above the coil. 
It also had turned to copper dust, and it must have been too much for it.
Never heard of that happening before.

later
Jon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 11:20:28 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank

In message <199501100613.WAA27024@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> "Kelly Minnick" 
writes:
> RE: Fuel Tanks
> As I have mentioned before, I am putting a second tank under the driver seat
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> in the tank is offset to the right, what special type of hoses or welded
> up filler neck is necessary? 
Take a standard filler tube for a under seat pertol tank.  Cut it in half at the
center straight section.  Mount one end on the filler neck & the other on the 
tank, lining the new holes up.  Use that to measure the length of tube you will 
need.  I just got a short length of exhaust tubing from Midas.  Use hose clamps 
to clamp the parts together.  The hard part is cutting the hole in the side of 
your car & cutting out the utility box in the seat box.  I put a fuel selector 
in the front of the seat box between  the tanks.

When the Green Rover gets back on the road, I'm going to have second to rear 
cross member modified, and place a rear tank in the back, giving my 109 3 tanks.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:44:29 -0800
From: jory@mit.edu (jory bell)
Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank

>The hard part is cutting the hole in the side of
>your car & cutting out the utility box in the seat box.

Dremel!

>I put a fuel selector
>in the front of the seat box between  the tanks.

I mounted the selector switch on the plate which covers the hole for the
RHD handbrake. That way, I minimized irreversible cutting of the seatbox.
Also makes servicing the selector easier.

jory bell
jory@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 12:50:40 PST
From: Brad Krohn <Brad_Krohn@ccm2.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Range Rover fatality

Text item: Text_1

>They point out that in the United States all 4WD vehicles are required 
>to carry a notice saying "This vehicle handles and manoeuvres 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>go out of control and roll over and crash. You or your passengers may 
>be seriously hurt".

My wife's new Suzuki Sidekick (1/3 the price of the Defender she really 
wanted, but could not afford) has such a sticker on the inside of the 
driver door. I believe this is less related to 4WD and more related to 
the high center of gravity. And I think it originated with all of the 
problems with the Samurai. 

======================================================================= 
"ROVER? WHO DRIVES IT?"                     Brad_Krohn@ccm.hf.intel.com 
"That would be telling." -The Prisoner              '69 IIA 88" Bug-Eye 
=======================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 14:06:42 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Compiles statistics on various trucks...

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Compiles statistics on various trucks...
Has anyone ever compiled statistics on various 4WD vehicles? I'm looking
for information like:
  Approach angle
  Departure angle
  Breakover angle
  Rollover (side incline) angle
  Grade of climb
  Wheel travel (front/rear)
  Ground clearance (Lowest point and frame)
  etc...

Obviously, this would have to be on stock vehicles since changing anything
like tire size, springs, lift, etc. would affect the figures.

I would be willing to compile such a list if "you all" would like to send
me any known specifications that you have.

The compiled list could look something like this:

VEHICLE ------ App.-- Dep.- Brakeover- rollover- % climb- clearance- frame ht.

LR series 1-3 -- xx --- xx ---- xx ------- xx ------ xx ------ x.x ---- xx.x
Toyota FJ40  --- xx --- xx ---- xx ------- xx ------ xx ------ x.x ---- xx.x
Trooper (80-90)- xx --- xx ---- xx ------- xx ------ xx ------ x.x ---- xx.x
K5 Blazer.... etc... etc...

If this exists, where can I get a copy?

Thanks,

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |           thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 15:52:51 PST
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  4-wheeler mag: Rovers galore

Hear hear to your remarks Morgan. I subscribe to the said magazine and
found the last issue to be an improvement on the usual fare. To thr
credit they awarded the Four Wheeler of the Year in 1989 to the Range
Rover (a model and year, of course, dear to my heart), using even more
gushing and hyperbolic language (the RR dished its nearest competitor
by 1,711 points, winning by huge margins in every performance category.
(including first in off-road performance by 658 points, with comments
like "killer" and "it walked the hills like it had feet").

Aside from these occasional exposures to Land Rover technology, however,
the magazine does tend to revert to the traditional Big Foot philosophy
for long periods. I too objected to the treatment of the Series LR owner
who just wanted to contact other owners through the magazine. Still,
hopefully a continuous process of education might eventually make an
impact! I have found that generally their reviews of Rovers have been
suitably adulatory, but they have ignored us in all other sections
of the magazine (projects, parts, etc). 

I recently sent in a photo for their "Reader's Rigs" column just for fun
since I've never seen a RR or Discovery featured there (they did have
a Defender recently as well as the "Proper" Land Rover alluded to
earlier).

Keep up the good work, and maybe they'll realize we exist!

Cheers

John Brabyn
Mill Valley, Ca
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 15:54:52 PST
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank

Are you sure it's a good idea to put a gas tank under the seat?

John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 16:07:19 PST
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  Four-wheeler of the year

Good point Granville -- actually the Ramp Travel Index was part of the test
and the Discovery scored 588 versus the others all around 400 plus or minus.
This puts it in the same category as the Defender on this test, but
of course not up to Range Rover standards (706 for the 94 SWB model).

One of the things the testers all acknowledged was that the other trucks in the test all had street tuned suspensions, rarely fitted to off-road. One
said the Disco was "the only real 4WD in the test" while another said
the Chevy "crawls great as long as the trail is flat" (!).

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 16:24:51 PST
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  Range Rover fatality

I'm interested in the comments about skids -- I've noticed what seems to
me an excessive tendency for the tail to wag on gravel bends (at my
no doubt reckless speeds) and have occasionally wondered whether the
applied correction would work in time. Generally, the vehicle acts
like its on rails when your foot is on the gas, but seems to have
a propensity for skids with it off. Does anyone else have any similar
or different impressions??

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 16:27:50 PST
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  How the LR Discovery can climb "anything"

It should be noted also that suspension softness/stiffness affects traction
even well before the limits of wheel travel are reached on uneven/rutted
hills etc. 

John Brabyn

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:42:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Kelly Minnick" <kminnick@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>

> Are you sure it's a good idea to put a gas tank under the seat?
> John
none
Can't be much worse than a Honda 90 trail bike!  Just a lot more fuel!
Kelly Minnick  '73 88" Safari
Ridgecrest, CA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 17:30:52 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank

In message <9501112354.AA04707@skivs.ski.org> John Brabyn writes:
> Are you sure it's a good idea to put a gas tank under the seat?
> John
none

88s & 109 two door models come with one under the right seat from the factory.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 18:02:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Morgan Hannaford <morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Extra Gas tank

I've got an extra gas tank in the rear of my 88", in front of the 
rear cross member.  I don't know where it is from, it certainly isn't
a Rover tank.  It holds 15 gallons and fills via a small metal door
bolted to the bed; just lift the rubber mat and fill-'er-up.  It
doesn't hang down very far and a steep departure would likely hit the
tow hitch before the double skinned tank.  I have an electronic switch
on the dash, over the oil pressure guage, to select tanks.  Good thing
too my, 10 gallon, passenger seat tank was leaking pretty bad.  Gas comes
out the rear right seam, from under the protector skin so I can't figure
out how to patch it.  Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Morgan H.
U.C.B.

------------------------------

From: FHYap@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:16:19 -0500
Subject: Misc

Re:  1.  Trailer Life: The SUV is used to pull the trailers, not to be hauled
on the back of a motorhome.  While I was in Australia I noticed quite a few
RR pulling trailers-but none here in the USA.

2.  Vehicle for sale: I would be careful about bragging about what one does
with his/her vehicle if it is for sale.  Would you really want to buy a
vehicle that spent most of its life off-road - unless you got a really good
price?  It seems to me that you would want to buy one that didn't spend its
life off-road so you can be the one who takes it there!

3.  Discovery RTI: Four Wheeler notes on page 37: "its [Discovery] RTI score
was about 50 percent better than anything else."

4.  Four Wheeler also makes a big deal of a female owning a 4x4. (See page
14.)  It seems to be that just as many females as males buy/drive 4x4s.
 Except for LR series X, Defenders, or highly (visibly) modified 4x4s, I
notice a significant amount of women driving SUVs.  A female acquaintance
even went to great lengths to get a manual Grand Cherokee. (It wasn't easy to
find)   In the SF Bay Area, there even seems to be more women driving RRs and
about an equal amount driving Discoverys.  

------------------------------

From: pparsons@ppsol.com (Peter C. Parsons)
Subject: Famous Road trips Circa 1922
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 21:03:52 MST

Hey Roverites, 
	I know this is off on a tangent, but ....
A year or two ago, I saw an epispode of "Wings" on the 
discovery channel (in the U.S.) that discussed one of, or
the first round the world airplane trip by U.S. Navy planes
in about 1922.  It was a very famous flight, and was well
recorded (Was it Dolittle, or ??).  

	Anyway during this show they mentioned that while
in India, the flight ran into a woman from the U.S. who 
was quite a young adventurer. She was in the process of 
DRIVING around the world.  They showed a few pictures of 
her meeting the pilots, and other pictures of her with 
locals and oxen, 'pulling her car' through LARGE mud
puddles.  I believe they said she eventually completed
the trek, taking about 3 years. 

	Does anyone know who she was, and if there is anything written on her travels.  I have hit the library
a couple times looking - unsuccessfully.  I have not
tried to contact the makers of the 'wings series' to 
get a transcript, but if anyone happened to know how
to do that, I would try to track it down that way. 

	Anyway, what a trip.  I get jumpy still heading
out for the day in my Disco, with maps. altimiter, GPS, 
CD ROM player, and who knows what other toys/comforts.  I'd
really like to learn more about that trip. 

Thanks, 

-Peter Parsons
pparsons@ppsol.com

'94 disco, graphic not available today :-(

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:07:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Brake Booster

Kelly....

> > > I have a SIII with a vacuum brAke boost.  I am switching over to the
> > > single 
> > > barrel Webber carb, but the stock LHD brake boost pipe that comes off
----snip----
> >       Many Land Rovers without the manifold drilled used a fitting
> >       coming off the adapter plate between the Zenith and the manifold.
> >       My adapter I am using for the Weber on the 88" is of this type, 
> >       while on the 109" is is the straight adapter without vaccuum
> >       fitting.  Bend the pipe, the adapter from LR isn't that cheap.
----snip----
> My emmisions page in my LR manual shows the PCV (mini-Frisbee) attaching
> to
> this 1/2" port on the carb adaptor.  I did bend my stock pipe and it will
> fit (barely), but I must remove the carb if I ever need to remove the
> pipe.

Here's an idea... You can hopefully find some other (non-Rover) fittings for
the port on the manifold. If so, just replace the original fitting and hose.
 
> Also, while I'm at it, the USA (CA?) SIII had a 'cam' on the Zenith
> throttle
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> Kelly Minnick  '73 88" Safari
> Ridgecrest, CA

Haven't a clue where you can find the vacuum switch. Now, do you need it? It
*is* part of the exhaust emmisions control.. and so was the carb you
replaced. The distributer is unique (I think) to emmisions controlled
vehicles and with the vacuum switch is supposed to retard the ignigtion when
the throttle is closed at high speeds. (That's what the book says!) There
was one on my SerIII when I bought it, but the switch was all but destroyed.
Since then I've changed the carb and distributer... but then I don't live in
California.. From what I've been reading, whether you need it or not depends
on if the State of California says you need it or not!!  :)

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:09:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank

John Brabyn, proud owner of a Range Rover, questions...
> Are you sure it's a good idea to put a gas tank under the seat?
none
Gee, John... why not? Kelly is mounting a second tank on a SerIII 88 which
already has a tank under the seat (the standard fuel tank). 

[Sarcastic mode on]
Remember John... these are Land Rovers! Not some wimpy 4WD with safety in
mind. If your gonna blow up, do it in Style! Sit right on the fuel.. Just
don't eat beans!!
[Sarcastic mode off]

Sorry John... I couldn't resist! 

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:29:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Extra Gas tank

Morgan...

Your extra fuel tank in the rear of the 88 sounds interesting.. One
question.. Where is your muffler??

As far as patching your main tank... The problem is that over the years,
dirt and moisture have worked into the space between the tank and outer
shell. To do a proper repair you would have to remove the outer shell, patch
the tank and replace the shell.. Sounds like a lot of work. You can *try*
using the sealant stuff you pour into the tank. The good stuff is a
three-part process.. First a wash step, then a chemical etch and then the
sealer. It will seal the tank OK, but if there is still a problem between
the tank and shell, it will leak again. (Mine lasted a year before it
started leaking.) The sealant *is* cheaper than a new tank...

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:46:12 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Superbase!

I called my brother to see if he could snag a copy of the magazine for me 
from his work, but he said that the guy who gets it, keeps it, but he'd make 
me a copy.  So I said well, if you find the Superbase ad in another magazine, 
that  would be fine.  Then he says, waitaminnit, that's the one with the Land 
Rover, right?  Yep, I says.  Oh, we're having it framed and matted for you, 
he says.  Oops.  

I guess there was a poster available, and he must have picked one up for me.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 

World Wide Web Sites:
        http://whitman.gar.utexas.edu/roverweb/roverweb.html
        http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/

If majordomo barfs at something, and you're convinced he should have 
understood what you sent him, contact majordomo-owner@chunnel.uk.stratus.com
-B

Back	Forward
Photos & text Copyright 1990-2011 Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved. Digest Messages Copyright 1990-2011 by the original poster or/and Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved.