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1 Benjamin Allan Smith [be55[not specified]
2 maloney@wings.attmail.co50Re: To Buy or not to Buy
3 jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john346 cyl engine and smog test
4 sim1@cornell.edu (Steve 73Re: Just curious on Series I
5 pparsons@ppsol.com (Pete34Oil Filter part # for 94 discovery?
6 Steven M Denis [denis@o56Re: 6 cyl engine and smog test


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Subject: Re: To buy or not to buy? 
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 09:21:46 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199412232258.RAA14127@postoffice4.mail.cornell.edu>you wrote:

> some advice. The body panels are in great shape with only a few minor
> dings. The frame has a new rear crossmember, and is reasonably solid. 

	So far so good.  Did you bang on the frame with a hammer?  I
don't personally care if the panels are dinged up.  It's the mechanicals that
are important to me.

> There
> is a lot of rot in the door pillars near the hinges, and in the footwells.
> One of the side curtains has a broken mount, and is slightly rusty aroung
> the frame.

 	The firewall (doorposts, footwells, etc) is one piece.  You could
weld or rivet in replacements for the footwells.  The doorpillers are harder
to fix.  Then again mine are fairly rusted.  The firewall is one of the few
pieces that is steel and tends to rust out.  Is the rust in the door pillers
going to effect how the door is hung in the near furture?  If the hinge
is going to rip out/fail then this would need to be fixed rather quickly.

> The drivetrain is all original(no overdrive), and is reported to
> be trouble free. The engine has a Weber carb and headers. It is not
> currrently running, but the owner assures me that it just needs a set of
> points and new gas. 

	I like the Weber single barrel carb because (with the overdrive)
I can get 18 mpg at 55 to 60 mph.  And max speed (for me) running with
no roofrack, on the flat, with no wind, was ~78 mph.  

	If all the the Rover needs is new points and gas. Get a set of points
and bring some gas.  Check it out.  while you're at it check the compression.
Getting it running on the spot will give you more information on how good the
vehicle is.  When I got my SIII 88 from a friend of Dad's it wasn't running,
but only needed "to have the wireing harness put back it and the carb cleaned".
We paid $1500 for it.  Then there was the $2000 in a rebuilt engine not too long
later (it needed $1500 in APB parts anyway), ...  The better picture that you
have to the condition, the less surprizes you have later.

> Any offer I make will be contingent on its being
> driveable. He is asking $2500, but he might thake $2000.

	It depends.  This may be fair, it may be too much.  I'd saythat 
$2500 would be a good upperlimit for this vehicle.

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications Internation Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

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Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 14:53:14 -0500
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: Re: To Buy or not to Buy

Braman writes:

> The drivetrain is all original(no overdrive), and is reported to
> be trouble free. The engine has a Weber carb and headers. It is not
> currrently running, but the owner assures me that it just needs a set of
> points and new gas.

Braman,

Ben made some excellent points - make sure the frame is solid and that it will 
run.  I would be careful with a vehicle that is not running.  If "all it needs 
is points & gas", he would have put points and gas in it and gotten it 
running.  With a non-runner with a rusty bulkhead and rusty doortops,  I think 
that $1500 is a high max figure.  If you can get it running and it moves 
around ok, then $2000-$2500 would be a fairer price (in my economically 
challenged opinion).

For the bulkhead repairs, the toeboard and kick panels for both sides will 
total over $100.  The top & bottom pieces for the door posts total $140 for 
both sides.  Then you have to have someone cut and weld them in.

For the "rusty side curtains" (I assume you mean door tops), they go for about 
$300 for the pair with window tracks & hardware (no glass).

And if it has been sitting, you can bet on all new wheel cylinders, and 
possibly master cylinder and clutch hydraulics.

If he's got a "Weber & headers" chances are that it's a 2 barrel Weber.  The 2 
barrel needs a bit of fabrication to get the linkage to fully open the 
throttle and does not run as well in cold weather (and ice up) due to the 
intake manifold having no direct heat source (they can also be a bit funky if 
it hasen't been jetted correctly).  Does go a bit faster though.  Rich Zeigler 
has one on his 88 and really likes it.  You can reach him at 802-773-1585 - 
tell him I said hi.  Personally, I like Ben's single barrel Weber with cast 
exhaust manifold better.

I would say that if you can get it running well, budget another $1500-$2000 to 
take care of all the niggley things that it will need (bring a point file and 
just clean up and set the points that are in it).

Good luck!

Bill

maloney@wings.attmail.com

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Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 13:42:56 -0800
From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess)
Subject: 6 cyl engine and smog test

Howdy,

I would like to know if any owners of rovers with 6 cyl engines can provide
me with emissions data for hydrocarbon levels in exhaust at idle speed.  I
have the european, not NADA 6 but there's no way I'm going to tell the
state my 6 cyl is different from the one in their book.  I would like to
know if this type of engine has any chance of emitting less than 500 ppm HC
(that sounds really low! 500 parts per million) at idle.

My smog retest was a fail;  the mechanics adjusted the carb to try to lower
levels but couldn't.  It runs great!!!!!  just pollutes.  I will check
exhaust valves and points when it stops raining. I adjusted timing
(advanced it). I checked intake valves (one had too big a gap), adjusted
points, I changed the spark plugs, bought the splitfire ones because I read
some good comments about them (Here?)  They are $6 each!  But they have a
90 day money back guarantee.  I hope they help me pass the smog test;  they
advertise better combustion which yields more power and gas mileage.  I
just want less HC in the exhaust.

I will go back this week for visit #3.
Any other ideas?

Thanks In Advance,

john f hess phd (wow, really?)
jfhess@ucdavis.edu
from home via modem
Land-
  -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and good ol reliable Mazda owner!

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Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 19:03:01 -0500
From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS)
Subject: Re: Just curious on Series I

Randy Rose asked for information about turn signals for Series I 107
station wagons, esp. 1957.  Here's more information than you may have
wanted. In all of the following, the number in parentheses is the original
Land Rover part number:

>What kind of turn signal switch do you have --
The flasher unit fitted to all 1955-57 Station Wagons and North America
Dollar area (NADA) vehicles was the Lucas LU FL3 35003 A (232402).  The
switch was the Lucas LU PRS7 031618 (264370).  The warning light was LU
38125A (264429) with a LU 987 (232590) bulb and a green lens (271915). This
switch was installed on a mounting plate (264369) in the dash, and would
turn itself off after some amount of time, or as Randy described it: -self
canceling (suction cup type with setable delay, when in need of a rebuild,
don't have any delay and have to be held while turning)-.  On my 1957 107
SW, it would signal a turn for about 45 seconds in the heat of summer, and
about 5 seconds in the winter.  The switch looked very much the same as in
my cousin's 1957 MGA that I used for my drivers license test.  The Land
Rover part number for the flasher unit complete assembly was (264784) which
seems to have contained all the above plus the wiring harness, screws,
washers, clips, grommet, and side and flasher lamps.  I have the Lucas and
LR part numbers for all those parts too,

>On the rear, what type of lenses do you have.  How are they held in,
>brand, size, glass/plastic.  Only specifics if they are original.
>Are they seperate units from the brake lights?  Where on the body are
>the lenses mounted.
This is little harder.  The Land Rover manuals I have are a little less
illuminating, but here it is anyway:
There were two 'Stop tail lamps' fitted for 1955-57 NADA vehicles.  The
Lucas part number was LU 53405 B (264350). The parts that made up the Stop
tail lamps are: Body and red lens, LU 526436 (264779); Bulb holder
interior, LU 573828 (264782); Bulb, LU 380 (264590); and Rubber for back
plate seating, LU 526377 (264783).

Unfortunately, my rear lights and their wiring were not original when I
bought the vehicle in 1970, and the parts book doesn't illustrate the 55-57
lights, but does refer to the Body and red lens as one piece.  The Stop
tail lights for 1954 were completely different, even the bulb was
different, LU 361, and that's the stop light illustrated.  My wagon has a
pair of lights on the lower part of the body on either side of the door.
Those lights function as tail and flasher lights, and some bozo before me
had mounted a light on the left side of the rear body just above the frame
and that was wired as the (only) stop light.  It is clear from the wiring
diagram and from a picture and description in the instruction manual that
this arrangement was bogus.  The bottom of the lights seem to be on about
the same horizontal plane as the bottom of the door handle opening on the
rear door.  The flashing indicator lamps description from the instruction
manual says "When the control switch is moved in direction of intended
turn, the stop lamp circuit for the side concerned is cut out and the stop
lamp bulb will commence to flash in conjuction with the flasher filament in
the side lamp until the switch is cancelled...."  What ever lights I had
for the rear got smushed a long time ago (I don't even remember how) and I
found a pair of Yankee lenses that fit.  The Yankee lenses are pointy, and
I do remember the ones that were there were flat (and probably glass, but
I'm not 100 percent certain about that).

The license plate hanger and light is entirely separate for NADA vehicles
(and makes no sense to me for a station wagon), but that's a whole other
subject.

No adaptors on the rear axles so that it takes standard IIA-III axle half
shafts - as I found out when I had one break, and got a Series II half
shaft from a friend.  The Series I half shafts are different lengths than
later ones.

Steve Margolis
1957 107 Station Wagon, Series I, Still in kit form in Maine (Damn!)
        serial number 13470093 engine number 114707468

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From: pparsons@ppsol.com (Peter C. Parsons)
Subject: Oil Filter part # for 94 discovery?
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 94 19:35:52 MST

Hey Roverites, 
	What is the correct 'generic' oil filter for the '94 disco.  
(I haven't been able to get a service manual from RN, and it ain't
in the owners manual.  The auto store I went to today couldn't
find it for sure.).  Also, to rehash, the jist of the thread on 
first oil changes it to not use synthetics until the 3d oil change,
right?  A good 10w30 should work (castrol??) well, I understand. 
Thanks, 
	-Peter

   | _______
   ||--' |  \_|_  
   T|___ +--    ]
   L|_/-\____/-\*}
      (O)    (O)     '94 Disco, New Antenna now installed!... 

		     * denotes location of yesterdays offroad lesson...
		       (score tree root 2, novice offroader 1)

		     Ski rack shown in hopes of appeasing the snow gods
			to get some snow in Colorado!

-Peter C. Parsons, 

 __________
|/\^_/v^/\^|
| SKYROVR  | 
|_colorado_|

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Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 22:57:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6 cyl engine and smog test

Well....hydrocarbons means too rich or too lean....If it was too lean, 
you get unburned fuel due to a misfire..but you say it runs fine so I'll 
leave that bit alone...
Too rich..could be that the jet and needle are worn...I'm wondering if 
the jet and needle are wrong for the engine...the cam and intake and all 
is different on the NADA and if you installed the NADA carb and 
distributor on the Euro engine it is possible that it won't *ever* be right..
Your float could be doing the Titanic thing and the idle air flow is 
enough to pull fuel from the main system...gosh I wish I rememberd these 
carbs better....
Were the last adjustments you made an improvement or did it get *real* bad?
I'm thinking that if you were to wildly retard the timing that it would 
run *real* hot and tend to burn off the Hydrocarbons..this was popular in 
the early 70's,they actually had vacuum *retarded* distributors that would 
cause the engine to run hot at an idle just for this purpose...it tended 
to burn off valves and heads too.....but to get it through a test it 
would be OK....They stopped doing this when the federal test required a 
limit on Oxides of nitrogen..(NOX) The high combustion temperatures cause 
the normally inert Nitrogen to combine with oxygen and make all manner of 
nasty stuff...the plan then called for an Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) 
system..this was not, as some suppose, and attempt to "reburn" the 
exhaust, but the exhaust gas was introduced into the intake to take up 
volume in the combustion chamber which precluded the engine from 
injesting a full charge of fuel and air and thereby prevented the high 
temperatures and the NOX emmisions...whew.....
Ok we got side tracked a bit there..the NADA engine is quite a bit more 
powerful than the EURO engine...the additional power was mostly cause by 
the burning of more fuel...it was more efficient due to its higher 
compression ratio (so some of the power came from better use of the fuel)
simply put, the carb may be over fueling the engine at low speeds. The 
Euro engine is draws a *big* gasp of air at low speeds due to the cam 
The NADA engine did not "pull" as well at low speeds due to its high speed 
cam..so the carb would be set up rich at idle..if there is an actual 
idle jet..*not* the needle valve mixture screw, but a real jet, this 
would have to be changed to get the HC down to limits....whre one *finds* 
the correct jet is beyond me....who is the carb expert here?
The correct jet may not exist as the NADA and the Euro engines used 
different carbs.....you then would have the wonderful job of soldering up 
the jet and then redrilling it..yuck...One more thing..put a 192 degree 
thermostat in it....Heat is good! Burn up that HC jazz.......

Try cranking the timing back, lowering the float level and sprinkling Holy 
Water on the intake manifold..ya never know.....

steve.....
"HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..."

"NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon          Steven M. Denis
"        "-1957 107 Station Wagon          PO Box 61
"        "-1964 109 Pickup                 Erieville,New York USA
"        "_1967 109 NADA SW                13061

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