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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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msgSender linesSubject
1 William Caloccia [calocc18new owner of old truck
2 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV 21Waving...
3 Chrisste@cerf.net (Chris21Footwell/Mudshield Replacement
4 Russell Burns [burns@cis17Re: GATT
5 CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR 56Various
6 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em20Re: Mixing Fuels
7 "Rostykus, John" [john@d16Re: Overdrives
8 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em18Re: Overdrives
9 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu18Re: Various
10 Jon Humphrey [jh5r+@andr12FYI anyone
11 mcdpw@pacific.pacific.ne91RE: Ibex and other questions
12 mcdpw@pacific.pacific.ne31RE: Scotty Conversions
13 Marcus Tooze [tooze@vinn52new member questions
14 labranch@sybase.com (Jas33More on Mixing Fuels
15 Kelly Minnick [minnick@j53Rover
16 Kelly Minnick [minnick@j40LR
17 jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)38Re: new member questions
18 William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.16Re: forwarded message
19 Andrew Steele [ad158@DAY29RR Fuel Capacity
20 Bob Rickard [brickard@ol5[not specified]
21 jpappa01@InterServ.Com (43roverhead rantings
22 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em85Re: roverhead rantings
23 rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.11U-Joints


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Subject: new member note
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 05:14:09 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

------- Forwarded Message

Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 19:36:09 -0500
Subject: new owner of old truck

I would like to be added to the Land Rover Owner's group.  I purchased a 1973
Series III 88 last night.  It didn't look any better this morning, but I'm
looking forward to resurrecting a vehicle that hasn't run in nine or ten
years.  I've been reading all I can about landies for a month or two while
searching for one of my own, but hope to learn more through this electronic
medium.  My name is Erik van Dyck, I live in the Atlanta, Georgia area.
 Merry Christmas

------- End of Forwarded Message

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 07:00:56 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Waving...

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Waving...
"Uncle Roger" is right on! It wouldn't hurt to build a reputation of LR
owners as courteous and friendly people anyway. Hopefully this won't be
TOO much of a change in character for most of us. After all, we already
are united as a group here on the net, for the purpose of helping and
sharing information with eachother. Let's just expand our horizons.

Dave (I wave to everyone) Brown - '94 Discovery - Phoenix Arizona USA

#=====#                  Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|___|__\___              can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _ |   |_ |             thing that ever has.
"(_)""""(_)"                                            -Margaret Mead

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 09:18:38 -0500
From: Chrisste@cerf.net (Chris Stevens)
Subject: Footwell/Mudshield Replacement

I will be spending the weekend in the garage installing two new galvanized
door posts, footwells and mudshields to my SIIA. (For some reason the
vehicle will not pass Maryland state inspection when you can watch the
front wheels turning from inside)

Does anyone have any advice to pass on from past experience in doing this
repair? Are there any problems I should expect along the way?

Chris Stevens
(410) 583-1722
(410) 583-1935 (FAX)
Chrisste@cerf.net

 R  1  3     2   H            "Land Rover's first, becuase
 +--|--|     |   |             Land Rovers last."
 2  4        4   L            '69 S.IIa 88"

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From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: GATT
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 6:27:11 PST

I think the D-90 was excluded from the 25% import tax due
to ythe 6019 lbs gvw.

Russ
1> 
> On Fri, 9 Dec 1994, Morgan Hannaford wrote:
> > When I read about the new GATT proposal being embraced by the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)]
> wasn't that the WHOLE point of GATT?  Wonderful politicians....
>  Cheers,
>  -- RP 

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 10:31:27 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Various

Jory writes about windscreen glass and fuel pumps.  Just about any glass
shop that does automotive work can cut a piece for you.  When a duffer of a
neighbor ricocheted a 9 iron shot off a sappling and into my passenger side
windscreen, the local glass shop cut a new piece of tinted, DoT-approved
glass for $37 using the old piece as a pattern.  The shop will likely give
you a coil/strip of butyl sealing compound (forget the 3M crap in a tube).
Get the thinnest you can (1/8" or so).

This is about the only Rover job best accomplished in the sun rather than
under a convenient shade tree.  Run the sealing compound around the
perimeter of the glass (both sides, not the edge), but leave the release
paper on.   Use wooden shims (AKA, "the fourth tool") under the bottom to
center the glass - the compound's extremely sticky and you have *one shot*
at correct alignment.  Strip the paper off the front side and press into
place.   Now strip the inside paper and secure with the four retainer
pieces and #2 SS philips screws.  Do not try to tighten all at once.  Let
it warm in the sun and come back two or three times and tighten the screws
a little more each time.  Then trim the excess sealant with a razor.

As to fuel pumps, buy a used one (Bruce at British Rovers has some) and
rebuild it.  (*Plastic* sediment bowls!?!  Arggh. Is *nothing* sacred???)
When I got married, Robert Davis gave me a set of *my* "crystal" pattern: a
set of glass sediment bowls...they're just the thing for Drambuie and
single malts.

Jason LaBranch writes about fuel substitutes.  In a pinch, a lot of stuff
*might* work, just don't make a habit of it.  When Mike McCaig was stuck on
a Iowa farm on a frozen Sunday morning, he used four gallons of kerosene
livened up with a gallon of Coleman fuel.  (Probably approximates 50 octane
PMex gas!)  The Rover ran fine until he could get to an open station 60
miles away.  I've heard of diesels running on banana oil and there is a
movement afoot in the UK to produce "bio-diesel" from rapeseed oil (used in
margarine).  Bon appetit.

A lot of action on the Camel Trophy Zippo lighter auction.  But Ben Hui,
send in another bid, as yours got scrambled somehow.   It was delivered
...but as "undeliverable" and missing the body of the text.  (How that is
possible is beyond me.)

For those who came in late, this is an engraved brass Zippo with Camel
Trophy logo and the location of every Camel Trophy event on it.  Proccedes
go to the club treasury.  Send your bid to the below address; bids close
Friday 4PM EST.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 11:20:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Mixing Fuels

On Mon, 12 Dec 1994, Jason LaBranch wrote:

> Qestion:  I have read somewhere that the Land Rover engine, I beleive 
> the 2.25 petrol engine, is capable of running with fuel mixtures such
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> to tune the engine to do this.  What kind of tunning is required?  What
> are good mixtures to use?

	The answer is yes, but...  Only the much older engines could do this
	to any extent.  The distrubutor had a wee lever/gear on it that 
	allowed you to play about.  Never could handle straight diesel though,
	but could handle some awful muck.  BTW, the IIA 2.25l petrol is good
	down to 63 octane.

	Rgds,

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From: "Rostykus, John" <john@dspmail.Data-IO.COM>
Subject: Re: Overdrives
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 08:32:00 PST

Mike writes:
>I picked up a used OD a few years ago... Ran it for a year or two and then
>the fine teeth stripped out of the input end of the mainshaft..  :(

A friend of mine had the same experience, but with a 1 year old *new* OD. 
 It would have cost him ~$250 for a new mainshaft, at the time.  He since 
opted for 3.54 diffs.  Has anyone else had this problem with the Fairey OD?

Rosty
john@data-io.com

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 11:36:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Overdrives

On Tue, 13 Dec 1994 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote:

> No, no.. we have more than enough cold to go around... We import it from
> Canada, right Dixon?? Shoot, I just *love* listening to the suspension creak
> in the cold.. and the engine go ruhh, ruhh, ruhh, ruhh, sputter, ruhh... and
> the axels crack..

	We are very generous in Canada.  We think it is only fair to send you
	down some nice cool weather in exchange for that humid muck, 80+
	degree days you inflict on us in the summer...  :-)  Besides, we
	*know* your really love -20 days and lots of snow.  Right?  :-)

	Rgds,

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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Various
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 16:44:25 GMT

Sandy,
Although bio diesel isnt on sale here at present,despite pressure,
(The Westminster Gang is trying,I suspect to work an angle to
favour themselves,and to further rip off us "wallets on wheels),it
is,I beleive,widely available on "Le Continong".
I posted this tit bit yesterday but I think it got bumped.
Land Rover have secured a 16million pound order for Defenders from
the Italian Government,to supply gov utilities.Forestry was mentioned
on the local TV item.Delivery to begin next March.Any further info
Ludo?
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 13:07:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: FYI anyone

I'm not even sure what this is, but if anyone is interested here goes.

>From: simonc@bri.hp.com (Simon Chandler)
>Subject: 1951 Rover 75
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 48 lines)]
> United Kingdom
>---==----=-=---====--=---=-==--===-=-=--=====-=----===---=--=--==-==-=-=

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 10:09:11 -0800
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: RE: Ibex and other questions

Jory, you wrote, in part:

>4. Gonna get my cracked windshield fixed (it's actually covered by my
>insurance with $0 deductible!). Anyone had their front glass replaced by a
>normal car glass place? Are they able to deal with a series rover? Guess
>I'll find out..

I had a piece of glass cut at a glass shop and put it in myself.  Easy to 
do.  The glass shop should be able to supply suitable seal strip material 
too, as that needs to be renewed.  I got tinted glass which was a big 
improvement.  If I were doing it now, I would take the center divider out of 
my windscreen frame and have a single piece of glass cut to fit.  This is 
done in England a lot.  But I would add a stiffener on the inside in place 
of the center divider.  Would then look pretty stock, be essentially as 
strong as the divided screen but allow the three-wiper conversion.  For the 
later IIAs and IIIs, that have the remote motor and cable drive for the 
wipers, you can reverse the position of the right-hand wiper drive (if above 
the cable move below or vice versa) to make both wipers go the same 
direction, then add a third wiper in the middle so you get a much larger 
wiped area.  For someone tall in a Series Land-Rover, this can make it much 
better for winter driving.

>5. I removed the rear seats. They were really space-inefficient. 

O.K. but make sure you hang on to them.  If you ever sell, make sure the 
seats go with the Rover. Or sell them to another Rover owner whose seats 
have gone missing.  It happens a lot.  Several of the Land-Rovers I have 
bought have lost all their back seats.

>7. With respect to IBEX acquisition. Anyone have any idea what the "new"
>IBEX (or whatever it's gonne be called) will be like? Foers said he's send
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)]
>IBEX... I am in favor of sourcing/fabrication collaboration. Anyone else
>game?

I'm game to discuss any strategies that we could put together for mutual 
benefit.  Of late I have been vacillating.  I really want an Ibex (or its 
successor) but, inasmuch as it would be somewhat more attainable, also 
considering doing a coil conversion with Rover V-8 in one of my existing 
Rovers (the East African Preditory Wildlife Survey Series II 88).  So I need 
encouragement to hold out for the more expensive four by four by Foers route 
which I really want. It would be so much easier if I weren't so poor... :^{

The background for my thinking that I would use a wrecked Range Rover as the 
base is as follows:  The ideal donor vehicle is the Defender 90 or 110, as 
there are certain parts which have to come from one such, namely, the fascia 
(dashboard), pedal box, and heater.  The running gear and suspension can 
come from either a Defender or Range Rover (or for that matter, I suppose, a 
Discovery).  My thinking is that if I got a U.S.-spec '90-'93 Range Rover 
roll-over, I could get all the necessary running gear, suspension, leather 
seats, air-conditioning, power steering, auto box (my preference for my 
bad-ass 4x4 as it gives better ultimate traction), ABS (definitely needed 
with an automatic), self-leveling, etc.  I would want to eventually add 
Rancho suspension upgrades (11" front and 15" rear wheel-travel) and 
driver-lockable diffs, but the stock stuff would do for a start.  

I figure that I would register the Range Rover, get it smogged, etc., then 
canibalize it to build my Ibex.  Where I live (Mendocino County) there is no 
annual vehicle inspection but, of course, that could change and is, indeed, 
in danger of changing in the near future, as we are borderline for being a 
non- attainment area air-quality-wise.  I hadn't really thought about what 
happens if it has to be inspected after construction.  Reckon we ought to, 
huh.  I don't know the rules for kit-cars but had assumed that they just 
have to meet the requirements for the as-registered donor vehicle.  We do 
need to know what California says about this...

Maybe you are right to suggest an old series vehicle for title, the older 
the better.  I have title from a 1958 Series II 88 which would serve nicely. 
 But that's essentially the only "part" from a series Rover which would be 
usable.  It would, perhaps be cheaper, having the title, to get a wrecked 
V-8 Defender 90 from England and use everything from it.  Then, if I want 
certain RR components, they area always available from AAA Small Car World 
(or some such name), an auto wrecker in Texas.  As to where to get totalled 
Range Rovers?  I don't know, I hadn't figured that one out, yet.  I have 
only ever seen two for sale, over the years. I don't reckon they are easy to 
come by and there are certain folks, such as that wrecker just mentioned, 
Roverworks, etc., already plugged into how to glom them.  I figured I would 
have to call all the insurance adjusters and ask to get in line for bidding 
on them as they come up.  Could take a long time to find one and I can't 
guess what sort of bid it would take to get one.

So I am still open to suggestions, encouragement, and offers of financial 
support (buy one of my Land-Rovers?)....
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ]
[ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ]

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 10:08:27 -0800
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: RE: Scotty Conversions

Robert, you wrote (in part):

>I'm doing an engine conversion and have talked to Scotty, thanks TerriAnn.
>He is out of adapters, but will have a new batch in a few months.  Does
>anyone have or know of an extra.  Steve Johnson had a repaired one for
>sale at the ROAV rally, but I have not been able to reach him.  His had
>been broken at one time.  Anyway please help.

I talked to a woman named Carla at the Hayward meet in July who had a Scotty 
conversion with four-cylinder Chevy engine installed in a late-model 88 and 
needed to convert it back to stock because it was not smog legal.  So she 
was interested in selling the conversion and Chevy engine or trading for 
stock set-up.   I don't know if she still has it; I have not talked to her 
since the meet.  I did not see the 88; the vehicle she had at the meet was 
an older 109 2-door. 
 
While I am at it, fellow netters and especially John Hess, She also had a 
set of military bolt-together wheels she was wanting to sell.  

If she mentioned prices for any of these items, I did not make a note of 
them. If interested, call:  Carla Satra or Patricia Gibbons at 408-923-3618.

Hope this helps.
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ]
[ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ]

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 12:25:52 -0600
From: Marcus Tooze <tooze@vinny.cecer.army.mil>
Subject: new member questions

Can't remember whether I introduced myself before or not. Anyhow, I'm
Marcus Tooze, a brit living in IL, USA. I have a lot of experience with
the MG marques (mostly A and B series engine) and the TR series (mainly
Spits, 4s and any 6 cyl TR). I'm new to the Landrover, and mine is a 
'67 109 Safari....(in addition to my '72 TR6).

On frst examination it seemed to be a fairly simple beast. Not too much
electrical wise, a stump pulling drivetrain (is the 4 wheeler set up 
problematic eg, more transmission bits to worry about?) and room to sit under
it while working...not like my friends stupid TVR 2500!

Anyway, i have some questions...

It has been sandblasted inside and out and it now rust/crud free. Here are the
questions:

1) I have new floor pans waiting to be installed. The old ones were alreasy 
out when I got it. How are they fixed in? weld or pop rivet? I think they
are replacemnet steel....but if they are ally, I guess I won't be welding them!

2) What prep does the aluminum need for paint? What type of primer should
be used?

3) I will be doing a 'special' paint job. African Safari Zebra stripe. Just
so I can pretend i got back  from a 6 month expedition to the plains
of the Serengeti. Obviously, it will be a variation of black and white
stripes on the outside of the truck, but what about the inside?? All white??
Has anybody been in a zebra landrover in Africa before?? I need a photo!!!

3) Two of my door frames have 2-3 inch sections tinwormed out. I don't want
to patch....are the frames available? Does anybody have two rear doors handy?

4) I have  A LOT of brand new spares w/ it. Stuff I probably won't use.
For example, door skins, light cages, rear frame cross member (the one
on the car right now is fine, god knows why he bought it!!), just a whole
bunch of stuff, are people on this list interested in trading parts?

5) There is a weber instead of the original carb/s. The original carb/s are/is
in one of the parts boxes, but I haven't looked yet. What did the 1967 4 cyl.
come with? SUs? If so, I think I may swap back...I don't trust webers!

6) Is the overdrive installation easy to a non-od drivetrain. Right now
cruising at 55 is noisy.

Thanks for all your help...

Marcus 

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 11:00:36 PST
From: labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch)
Subject: More on Mixing Fuels

After asking the question on mixing fuels I remembered a meeting
with an unusual man.

When I lived in Upstate New York (specifically South Fallsburg) I was
in the corner store where I would frequent.  There was a short bald
old man with a nice beer belly making lots of noise.  My friend started
poking me a telling me that that was the man he saw on a half hour
show on A&E the other night.

It turns out the guy was a mechanical engineer in the Army during World
War II.  The Army was experimenting with different fuels to run the tanks
and he was one of the members of the team.  After the war the Army dropped
the whole idea but this guy (I foget his name) continued to this day to
develop alternative fuel modifications to engines in his back yard.  He
has been trying to sell his ideas to auto makers but none have bit.

We talked to the guy a bit and he took us out to see his new Ford
Taurus which he had modified to run on vegitable oil.  The modifications
seemed pretty simple -- there were a few canisters and tubes attached
to the carb.  When he gets low on fuel he heads over to the local
McDonalds and they give him their old french fries oil.  He filters
out the chunks of french fries and drives off.

I wish I remebered the name of this guy but I don't so I can't tell
you.

See Ya'
Jason

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From: Kelly Minnick <minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: Rover
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 12:29:03 PST

'73 sIII 88" safari
Hello fellow LR lovers.  I've been listening for quite some time, and decided
to take the plunge and send in some mail.  I have previously owned an '87 RR
and a ex-logging camp '64 88" that looked like it was used to plow the road
with it's body! (sack of potatoes).  Every LR I've owned except the RR, I 
towed home and had to get running.  In fact, the '73 I have now, the people
stored for 12 years with just water in the cooling system...  When I finally
fixed the timing chain adjuster, it started weeping water into the oil.  OK
easy.  Just a head gasket, right? Nope.  As luck would have it, the head was
cracked.  After ordering a new head from Turner Eng. ($450 shipped to my door
Vs $650-$800 for a rebuilt) I checked out the bores.  With 39,000 miles, they
were worn out.  NEVER use a rochester carb off of a 250-6 chevy.  The added
fuel washes the oil off the rings and cylinders.. ie. lots of wear.  I now have
a Webber and I have also used the Ford carb from a 1962 Commet with a 144 ci
4 cylinder.  Mounting is identical to the Zenith...  I have a couple of 
questions for you experts out there:

1.  I want to put the tropical windows into my safari top.  Does anyone have
    a patern that needs cut into my top?

2.  I would also like to add the vents, but I think I would have to buy the
other roof skin so they could open.  Is this correct?

3.  Series III took away all the metal from the dash to save me...  My
defroster hose on the passenger side fits into a rubber boot (sleeve) that
attaches to the metal plate in the dash/heater box.  Is there a part #
for this?  This vehicle was stored with the top off and the goats ate all
the rubber parts they could!

4.  Where is the best place to mount my CB antenna?  I was going to put it at
the rear on the backside of the top...  I hate cutting the aluminum, and don't
know it the aluminum with withstand the trees hitting my antenna...

5.  I've heard rummours of a 'kit' that allows the use of a LT77 5spd box with
my transfer case.  If this is true, it would be much better than an overdrive
since there would be less back-lash...

6.  Living out here in California, the EPA people seem to want me to have all
the original smog equipment.  Since the Zenith (IVE - E for emissions) was a
real dog, most everyone threw them out as soon as they got home and bolted
on these silly Rochester's.  Where can I get an IVE Zenith? (with the dash
pot and solenoid fuel cut-off).  Mine even had an EGR valve which I thought
was only on the Austrailian market!

Well, enough for now.
Kelly Minnick
Ridgecrest, California (Mojave Desert)

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From: Kelly Minnick <minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: LR
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 12:47:32 PST

Yes, it's me again.  Just wanted to respond to a few messages:

1.  Roll bars (even on the US 90) don't appreciable add to the stiffness of the
frame.  It can't.  It is a bolted assembly that is mounted to the top of the
frame on a perch.  If you take this 'H' ladder (your frame) and twist it in
your mind from side to side, the roll bar would have to completely attach
around to the underside of the frame to be loaded in tension.  Roll bars are
made to be loaded in compression - i.e. that's why the perch is on the top of
the frame member.  I do agree that a roll bar is definately the safest with
a hard top to keep out the rocks as you are tumbling. (roll bars can't keep
the rocks or bushes from jabbing the cars' contents) My jeep and Land Cruiser
buddies make fun of my poor man's jeep that can't afford a roll bar...Some-
one should make an aftermarket kit (hint hint).

2.  Why would the windshield height be any different on the 90 vs the sIII?
If the doors are the same, wouldn't the shields have to be at the same
height?  Maybe I haven't spent enough time at the dealers.  By the way,
where do you guys get the money for these US spec 90's?  At $33K, I say ouch!

3.  LR sells the studs for the sIII wheel hubs.  I have put these in my sIIA
and would recommend it to all sIIA owners.  No real reason to use the NAPA
part.  It might not be as strong?!

4.  Fuel pumps are available.  The newer ones have crimped in one-way valves.
They can be modified so that they are replacable like the older units.

5.  I found a source for METAL fan blades for all you sIII owners with the
plastic sun/rotted blades...

6.  I have and Excel database for a buch of sIIa/sIII LR part #'s.  If you
want it, ask...

Kelly Minnick
Ridgecrest, CA

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 14:42:57 -0800
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: Re: new member questions

WTR paint: Someone else asked about painting the rover, and I have all the
info from my paint job somewhere (receipts, note, etc). I tries to write
the oher rquester, but their email repeatedly bounced. Anyway, I recently
moved and my records are currently inaccessible. When they are unearthed,
I'll post the details (but somone else probably knows as much as I do
anyway...)

>1) I have new floor pans waiting to be installed. The old ones were alreasy
>out when I got it. How are they fixed in? weld or pop rivet? I think they
>are replacemnet steel....but if they are ally, I guess I won't be welding them!

they bolt in (a combination of bapritve nut tingies and regular nuts n'
bolts. You seal it (well, som chose not to seal, but, if you do...) with
ether some caulk-like string (name?) or with 3/4" wide, 1/4" thick adhesive
backed closed cell foam (where are you located?). The latter is what LR
uses in defenders, and it's worked great for me (I got it at a rubber
supply store)

>4) I have  A LOT of brand new spares w/ it. Stuff I probably won't use.
>For example, door skins, light cages, rear frame cross member (the one
>on the car right now is fine, god knows why he bought it!!), just a whole
>bunch of stuff, are people on this list interested in trading parts?

I am intereted in the light cages... don't have that many parts to exchange
(maybe I could BUY them.. gasp!)

>6) Is the overdrive installation easy to a non-od drivetrain. Right now
>cruising at 55 is noisy.

The OD install is easy...

jory bell
jory@mit.edu (but I'm in SF!)

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 16:54:43 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: forwarded message

> I have a question about these wheel nuts.  I have 8 Land Rovers with both 
> the double beveled nuts and the single beveled nuts and in almost all of 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> say the studs on all of them are too short for the nuts Land Rover 
> supplies.  Has anyone ever checked to see why this is so? Dave VE4PN

The nuts protect the thread on the end of the stud. If the stud stuck out it
could easily get buggered on a rock, then you'd have a time getting the nut
off.

R, bg 

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 23:10:39 -0500
From: Andrew Steele <ad158@DAYTON.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject: RR Fuel Capacity

John Brabyn wrote a day or two ago that filling his RR petrol from empty took
18.8 gallons.  I also had the privilege to run a little low, also after
dinner, but I made it out of the parking lot and into the middle of a 4 lane
road controlled intersection.  Didn't realize an 87 automatic could be pushed
by one person w/ leather bottomed loafers.

To conclude the recollection, my log indicates that refill to full took only
18.4 gallons.  Additionally, I had the insult of the pump nozzle not
automatically shutting off while I held it.  Any connection.  Subsequent
complaints to the station attendant and then owner assured me that the pump
was functioning normally for other customers.

Wait --- I just figured it out, I was filling with Imperial gallons while LR
must be measuring the tank in US gallons.

Per my almanac 1 gallon British Imperial = 1.201 U.S. Gallons.

Amazing what you can think of after a Bass.

Andrew & lum
Dayton, OH
87 RR

**** still looking for leads on an "inexpensive" 109 diesel ****

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 20:14:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Rickard <brickard@olympus.net>

HELP

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 20:20:06 PST
From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com (Jim Pappas)
Subject: roverhead rantings

the 1995 rangey 4.0 s.e. will be launched at nada dealers on 1/27/95. check 
local dealers for "party" schedules. Limited supply (!) for initial launch. 
Price $55-56K U.S. Car is totally redesigned and the good news is that the 
rangey "classic" 100-incher original bodystyle coming in at $45K - still lotsa 
bucks, but three thou less than same car two years ago! 

Been driving nada-def90 dealer hardtop for about a week now. as expected, a 
great improvement for winter driving in cold climes. Yes Martha, you *can* 
hear the radio at speed - and stay warm on the lower blower speed. not 2 beat 
a dead pony, but having the full cage installed gives peace of mind and really 
makes for a rattle-free landy. I would hate to roll one over with just the grp 
top alone... The new top seals well and it is a tribute to the design team to 
provide same whilst fitting over the cage still fits basically flush to tub 
sides and maintains classic series profile w/alpine lights and rear quarter 
lights. lift up tail gate hinges do have a somewhat "wrangleresque" look! 
Gas-assist struts and smooth operation though. its a nice piece but certainly 
a metal top it ain't. So if you are a 90 owner, keep the cage!

Defender future? Nothing certain, but look for possible additional variations 
of 90 before DOT forces it to go away. One things for sure - value will be 
strong and it will take its place amongst the series cars as a cult classic. 
Used def 110's are fetching over original list price! one or two years left of 
opportunity to scoff def90. I agree w/Bill. lower $ = >volume. I of all wish 
that bloody 25% was gone. Don't forget, though - it is possible to price a 
jeep wrangler laredo at over twenty grand! this puts the 90 price even 
w/tariff in perhaps a more justifiable light - no? I think that the wrangler 
is the best sales tool that the defender 90 has! the jeep is a really 
not-so-wonderful piece. enjoy your land rovers -whatever model it is! revel in 
the exclusivity and cachet - it is what it is and that's why (whether you 
admit it or not) you love `em! there is a funk quotient that defies 
objectivity. and at no charge!

see ya!

Jimbo
roverheadus infectidadus extremis

jpappa01@interserv.com

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Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 00:25:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: roverhead rantings

On Tue, 13 Dec 1994, Jim Pappas wrote:

> a dead pony, but having the full cage installed gives peace of mind and really 
> makes for a rattle-free landy. I would hate to roll one over with just the grp 
> top alone... 

	Hard top of the Series works quite well too... :-)  Granted the 
	only two occassions where an 88 nearly rolled (both are on the 
	list, but no names of course <grin>) were when they were nearly
	stationary beside a paved road (damn those soft shoulders...:-))

> Gas-assist struts and smooth operation though. its a nice piece but certainly 
> a metal top it ain't. So if you are a 90 owner, keep the cage!

	No comment...

> Defender future? Nothing certain, but look for possible additional variations 
> of 90 before DOT forces it to go away. One things for sure 
 
	Bet you they are gone for one reason.  The 300 TDi will be the 
	only engine offered by LR.  If its approved, then it will be here,
	if not...  DOT isn't going to blow away the Defender in the USA, 
	EPA will & only because LR isn't going to have the V8 about 
	(unless by special order, but try and get one over in the USA)

> value will be strong and it will take its place amongst the series cars 
> as a cult classic. 

	The N.A. jury is still out on this one (not wanting to feed any
	flame wars)

> Used def 110's are fetching over original list price! one or two years 
> left of opportunity to scoff def90. 

	Make you a deal.  I can get a few 110's at under list.  I'll sell 
	them to you at the original list, you sell at above list and we 
	can both make quite a few bucks.

> Don't forget, though - it is possible to price a jeep wrangler laredo at 
> over twenty grand! 

	<be good.... Don't comment on those that would pay this...>

> the exclusivity and cachet - it is what it is and that's why (whether you 
> admit it or not) you love `em! there is a funk quotient that defies 
> objectivity. and at no charge!

	At big charge.  LR should have brought over a stripper.  They 
	could have sold a lot more of them at a lot less.  Remember who
	runs LR.  Look at the name heritage.  Before LR we had Rover.  
	Before Rover it was Austin/Rover.  Befor that Jaguar/Austin/Triumph.
	Before that British Leyland...  And so on...  This is the bunch
	that brought the Stirling to the USA, had no concept of management
	practices in the UK, destroyed Triumph, MG el al as marques...
	LR as a model has kept the company afloat despite the clueless
	wonders running the place (granted the Mini makes money, but they
	nearly killed that, but couldn't because they couldn't even 
	afford to kill it at the time!).  Read up on Edwards, Lord, and the
	rest that actually ran the show.  The 90 a classic?  Maybe, but 
	why is the latest RN have an article on detering rust on the 90?
	Don't want to start anything here, but... Is LR that great?  Well,
	lets discuss the history of the corporation, those that run it.
	The vehicle is very good, but what is behind it...  OVLR asked LR
	a *YEAR* ago for permssion to use LR in our name.  You would think
	that they could have come up with an answer, yes or no, in a *YEAR*.
	LR is about to drop support for a ton of Series parts.  LR/BL left
	the Series owners in the dark in '74 when they pulled out.  It took
	clubs like ROAV, OVLR, ALROC, etc. to group together and get parts,
	organise, and keep their LRs on the road.  What is parts supply 
	going to be like when the 90 hits the dust?  Will BSROA, ROAV, OVLR
	have to start organising parts for the 90 owners too?  I ramble.
	Too much Guinness with Dale... :-)

> Jimbo
> roverheadus infectidadus extremis

	Rgds,

	Dixon
	logicalus roverheadus historicalus infectiadus rationalus extremis

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 23:47:31 MST
From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL )
Subject: U-Joints

Anybody out there come up with a non-Rover
replacement for the u-joints?  Need some
sonn.  But of course was wondering if they
could be had kinda local.

Roy - Rovers in the Rockies

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  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 

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