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From: Mr Ian Stuart <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 08:53:20 +0000
Subject: Re: Wide wheels and tyres

> Michelin XCLs, truly the mud tyres from hell.

The ultimate "Mud Tyres From Hell" are the Sugar-Cube types. They have a
UK road rating of about 50mph and a truly aggressive tread (5 x 1"
(free-standing) cubes across the width of the tyre). 

These tyres gave competitors such an edge over SATs & BFGs that the RAC
has banned them as competition tyres. 

BTW -- there is a open invitation to come to a SLROC event (we may even 
find a seat for you in a vehicle). Give me a shout with the dates & I'll 
let you know what's on during your visit.

Spend time touring Scotland *and* get to play with Land Rovers -- what an 
offer :)

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
WWW sites: Work -- <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/>      
           Play -- <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>
#======================================================================#
Pessimists are often pleasently suprised by life, |Land Rover owners do
optimists find it full of disappointments.        |  it in the mud.

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Discovery and 90 horror stories :(...
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 10:51:05 UNDEFINED

Chatting with a mechanic who sees a lot of Landrovers. He was showing me a 
couple of 90 panels. They were made from layered recycled steel, adn 
corrosion hasd ballooned them out  to 5 times their original thickness. They 
were a serious mess. Apparently Landrover got lots of recycled steel from 
Spain very cheap............Bulkheads adn outriggers go very bad very quick :(
He showed me a Mini door panel for comparison. This had been out in teh 
weather for a couple of years. It had just rusted on teh surface, then stopped 
at that point. The Landrover panels were pure disintegrating rust!

Since the only reason folk buy em and put up with the constant niggly faults 
is because teh basic structure of teh Landrover lasts longer than teh more 
mechanically troublefree Japanese equivalents, it rather makes you wonder what 
will happen to heir market share if all teh modern ones dont anymore........

Discovery stories were even worse. Apparently in teh S.E. where they sold a 
lot early on (to both private buyers adn fleets) there have been a rash of 
body panels coming off on teh road. It seems that Landrover didnt bother to 
treat teh steel mountings for teh aluminium body panels, adn sure enough teh 
corrosion after 4-5 years is hideous. Apparently many secondhand dealers wont 
touch em cos they wont warranty them.

Sounds like Landover are trying to commit corporate Hara-kiri.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Hi-Lift on Defender
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 10:56:34 UNDEFINED

Hi-Lift on Defender

.one of the two mounts to the frame rails. As with using the rear
.hitch mount, any Hi-Lift use can be dicey, front or back. Works
.great but you gotta watch out.

That's the whole point of Hi-lifts. So you can lift one end out of ruts, then 
give a shove so it falls off teh jack out away from teh ruts. Then repeat at 
teh other end. Woudlnt work if they were stable.......

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Waxoyl ingredients
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:10:08 UNDEFINED

.(in hot water-it IS flammable) or dilute it.  Looks yellowish with pale wax in

If possible, get the black stuff. The yellow stuff is used on normal car 
bodywork, buffed off like a  normal polish. The black stuff is ultra-gloopy 
adn is designed for chassis. It's also bloody hard to find, so I usually use 
teh yellow stuff :(

.remained well coated.  This waxoyl is on like glue, everywhere, with nothing
.under it, and it ain't goin' nowhere.  As time goes on and the remaining 
.solventin it evaporates, it seems to slowly spread, and not spread thin but 
.kindathicken.  Hunkerin' down for winter.  My axle housings and springs, 
.previously

You think THAT is sticky, wait till you see teh black.......

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Freewheeling Hubs
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:49:36 UNDEFINED

.even though the SIII had a salisbury rear axle. I must confess though
.that now I have a 90 I use low range with the diff unlocked quite a lot
.for maneuvering trailers etc, and for travelling at 1 mph in traffic
.jams across the Kingston Bridge on the odd excursion to Glasgow.

Sorry? You mean 'parking ratios'. Neat feature to give you a whole parking 
gearbox to compensate for lugging the steering wheel round against that damned 
damper!

What else would you use  it for?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 09:18:05 -0500
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: Hal's Starter Problems

Hal asked:

none
Well I put new lock washers on, and made sure everything was nice and
tight, and yet again, my starter has jarred loose and jammed in the
flywheel.  Except this time, the starter casing has cracked.  I don't
understand why this would happen, and I am afraid to put a new starter in
if this is going to continue for fear of wrecking it as well.  
none

I'll take a guess.  The nuts weren't tightened enough upon reinstallaton at 
one time and allowed the starter to shift on starting.  As it shifted more 
stress was put on the casing and the nuts loosened even more, and the more 
the nuts loosened the worse the situation became, until the casing cracked.  
Another possibility could be that the starter was dropped at one point and 
cracked before being installed.  Just a thought.

I would shine a light into the starter hole with the starter removed while 
someone turns the hand crank and examine the flywheel ring gear.  If it's OK, 
you should be fine.  Also, check the condition of the upper stud for the 
starter.

Good Luck!

Bill

maloney@wings.attmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 08:59:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: side panels

Does anyone have/know the whereabouts of side panels for the roof of a 
109 2 door...these can be with or with out windows....the roof I have..
I understand these are rare,(a nice lady in CA. had someone try to 
*steal* hers) but someone might have a set and are tired of looking at 
them....any where in the eastern Us and Canada is OK....the trans 
portation from the UK or out west is too problematical..
thanks!!

steve.....

"HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..."

"NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon          Steven M. Denis
"        "-1957 107 Station Wagon          PO Box 61
"        "-1964 109 Pickup                 Erieville,New York USA
"        "_1967 109 NADA SW                13061

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:09:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Hal A. Lightwood" <halightw@FLASH.LakeheadU.CA>
Subject: Hand Crank

Well, now that my starter is busted in half (as posted earlier), I am
resorted to starting my LR with the hand crank, which works surprisingly well!
Although i do get alot of strange looks in the parking lot :)

Yesterday it was -20 degress, and there were cars all around me that
couldn't start because of the cold.  However, two good cranks by hand and
I was off to the races.  They stopped laughing at me as I drove off into
the sunset leaving them to wait for the towtruck.

Hal A. Lightwood <halightw@thunder.lakeheadu.ca>	88" SERIII
							w/ armrests
							

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:05:16 -0500 (EST)
From: "Hal A. Lightwood" <halightw@FLASH.LakeheadU.CA>
Subject: Re: Changing Diff Oil

Regarding the 13mm square socket, It may be that for some reason the plug
on the diff is inverted to what you would normally find.  Instead of it being
a hole that you can put the socket driver wrench into, mine seems to be a
square nob sticking upwards.  I have no tool which will fit this, so I
just use a crescent wrench.
           ___                 normal plug
	__|   |__       __     __
	 my plug          |___|

Hal A. Lightwood <halightw@thunder.lakeheadu.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 94 08:28:20 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: question for 90 owners

In message <199412060221.AA19995@interserv.com>  writes:
> DEFENDER 90 HARDTOPS NOW IN STOCK... ALLOCATION IS ONLY 5 TOPS/DEALER/MONTH 
> FOR THE SHORT TERM! PART # LRNA90HTOP (can -u- figger dat one out?) at a 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> JIMBO
> jpappa01@interserv.com

QUESTION for 90 owners

I still don't know why someone with a US spec 90 couldn't remove the roll bar & 
pop on a European spec 90 hard top.  Can anyone with a 90 tell me why this can 
not be done?  It just strikes me as a possibly easy cheaper way to get a hard 
top.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 94 08:41:07 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: REDLINE FOR A 2/14 PETROL IN A 1971

In message <199412060323.AA14345@crl10.crl.com> Roger Sinasohn writes:
> The Tach on my 109" was set with the redline at about 3000.  Scotty said it 
> could run a lot higher than that, so I keep it around there.  Around 3100 = 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
> San Francisco, California                               

Not having a overdrive in my 109, 3200 RPM equals somewhere between 50 & 55 MPH 
& 3500 RPM = about 60ish.  Vance, who followed me to the Portland All British 
Field meet last Sept may think my MPH numbers are a little optimistic.  He & I 
have the same tyres & I know my speedometer is off.  I calibrate my tach by 
looking at RPMs when following traffic officers.

My engine likes 3200 to 3400 RPM on multiday long cruises.  I regularly shift at
3700 to 4200 RPM.  The higher one is usually trying to get up to speed merging 
onto a freway, or being lazy about double clutching and doing a first to third 
shift.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

From: Brian_Foster_at_ASTISHR@ccmailsmtp.ast.com
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 94 09:11:31 PST
Subject: Last word on last virus message

I've been receiving a lot of grief from a couple of mail lists I 
belong to about the message I posted regarding a virus that my company 
has received.  I sent the warning in case I posted the virus by 
mistake.  It seems to be a uuencoded executable that looks like a text 
file which executes when you double click on the file (I use CC:Mail 
with Windoz).  For those that thought it was a hoax or have it removed 
automatically, I apologize for the wasted bandwidth.  I was not trying 
to propogate a "chain letter" of any kind (I hate them personally & 
would never try to send one on).  I actually rec'd the message w/ the 
attachment, so IMHO I thought I was helping.  I am sorry there are 
those that disbelieved me & had to send a retort.
Brian
PS. Special note to the LRO list: by far, the LRO list generated the most hate 
mail.  I apologize once again that you think its a hoax.  Please stop sending 
hate mail, I am off your list & won't bother you anymore.  I hope to continue to
correspond with the Nor. Calif. crowd privately without the list. -b

------------------------------

Subject: Re: question for 90 owners 
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 09:14:35 -0800
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

TerriAnn,
	Well I called Mark Letorney at Rovers North to see about just
such an operation. He told me that to bring over a hardtop and do the
work to make it fit would cost on the order of 3500 to 4000 dollars!
First you have to find a D90 hardtop in England to ship over, which on the
surface sounds easy, but in reality is not. I called two places that advertise 
in LRO and they quoted me 750 - 800 pounds plus the cost to ship it to the
U.S. which is substantial.
There is a fair amount of modifications that need to be done according 
to him in order to make the top fit. The dome light needs to be relocated,
the rear door situation needs to be looked at, the entire roll bar, not just
the external section needs to be removed. None of these things are difficult
in and of themselves, but taken together, make it more pain than its worth.
Removing the roll bar also makes the truck illegal as far as DOT roll over/crash
worthy protection is concerned, DOT are the ones who made them put it on in the
first place, and it voids the factory waranty.
And LRNA has asked in the strongest terms that Rover's North not import any 
hardtops, for obvious reasons.
							Rgds
							Mike Fredette
							Portland, Oregon

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: question for 90 owners
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:18:10 -0500 (EST)

> Removing the roll bar also makes the truck illegal as far as DOT roll 
> over/crash worthy protection is concerned, DOT are the ones who made 
> them put it on in the first place, and it voids the factory waranty.

	When did the American DOT start requiring rollbars on soft-topped
	vehicles?  This seems rather strange.  Removing the rollbar is 
	akin to removing seatbelts and other safety devices too?  All
	American sold soft-tops now require rollbars as of '94 model
	year?  Jeeps, Suzuki's, Corvettes, Neons etc?  

> And LRNA has asked in the strongest terms that Rover's North not import any 
> hardtops, for obvious reasons.

	Competition & profits more like it.  To my knowledge they certainly 
	could for bring them in for Canadian spec vehicles.

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: question for 90 owners
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:21:06 -0500 (EST)

> I still don't know why someone with a US spec 90 couldn't remove the 
> roll bar & pop on a European spec 90 hard top.  Can anyone with a 90 tell 
> me why this can not be done?  It just strikes me as a possibly easy 
> cheaper way to get a hard top.

	I still don't know why I can't take an 88" hard top, a hacksaw,
	some pop rivets, etc and put it on a 90.  (Ditching the roll
	bar of course).  yeah, yeah, I know, I'm a philistine...

------------------------------

Subject: Re: question for 90 owners 
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 10:47:05 -0800
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

Dixon,

>> And LRNA has asked in the strongest terms that Rover's North not import any 
>> hardtops, for obvious reasons.

>	Competition & profits more like it.  To my knowledge they certainly 
>	could for bring them in for Canadian spec vehicles.

That's what I meant to say. They want the MONEY, not any sort of high
lofty, crash protection. Though from a product liability standpoint, they must
surely be covering thier asses as well. Which brings us right back to Money.
I don't know if Mark will do it for you Canadians or not, all he said was that
LRNA had really made a point of asking him not do it. BTW, do you have any
specifics on bringing over containers from the UK? I know you guys have done
it several times. How much does it really cost, and how much does it really save.
And who do you arrange it through?
								Rgds
								Mike Fredette
								Portland, Oregon

------------------------------

Date: 6 Dec 1994 11:15:36 U
From: "Keith Sheu" <Keith_Sheu@cpqm.saic.com>
Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT (fwd)

                      RE>VIRUS ALERT (fwd)                         12/6/94

we were also warned not to read a file called "good times".  It is apparently
a trojan horse that deletes all the files in a hard disk.
 
 >A virus is circulating on the Internet.  If you receive a message with 
 >the header "xxx-1" DO NOT READ IT.  Delete immediately or your disk will 
> require treatment by a virus-scanner.  I have had two copies of this 
 >message this morning (Sunday) already, but was warned by an early 
> morning phone call from a friend who got hit.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Changing Diff Oil 
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 11:19:44 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <Pine.3.05.9412060914.A2855-9100000@flash.LakeheadU.Ca>you write:
> Regarding the 13mm square socket, It may be that for some reason the plug
> on the diff is inverted to what you would normally find.  Instead of it being
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> 	__|   |__       __     __
> 	 my plug          |___|

	Use an 8 point socket (as opposed to the 12 or 6 point ones).  Go
to Sears and buy one (I know that Craftsman makes 8 point sockets) in 1/2
inch and one 9/16 inch.  These should open all of your gear oil plugs.  
	At least it does on my SIII. 

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications Internation Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 94 11:52:02 PST
From: Brad Krohn <Brad_Krohn@ccm2.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Lug wrench

Text item: Text_1

I know this is silly, but I'm having absolutely no luck finding a plain 
ol' lug wrench that's big enough for those monster LR nuts. My only 
options seem to be over-priced: mail order or the hardware store's 
much-too-fancy 1/2" drive with a 1 1/16" socket.

======================================================================= 
"ROVER? WHO DRIVES IT?"                     Brad_Krohn@ccm.hf.intel.com 
"That would be telling." -The Prisoner              '69 IIA 88" Bug-Eye 
=======================================================================

------------------------------

Subject: Re: question for 90 owners 
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 12:05:49 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

TeriAnn wrote:
> > I still don't know why someone with a US spec 90 couldn't remove the 
> > roll bar & pop on a European spec 90 hard top.  Can anyone with a 90 tell 
> > me why this can not be done?  It just strikes me as a possibly easy 
> > cheaper way to get a hard top.
  
Dixon wrote:
> 	I still don't know why I can't take an 88" hard top, a hacksaw,
> 	some pop rivets, etc and put it on a 90.  (Ditching the roll
> 	bar of course).  yeah, yeah, I know, I'm a philistine...
  
	When the US 90s first got the US, I compared it to my SIII.  Assuming
you take the roll bar off (which looks like 1/2 an hour's work with the
special, many point, star head bolts) the only modification that
would need to be done to a Series hardtop is to make cuts to allow for the
windshield  being ~2 inches taller.

	Regarding roll bars, all of the recent jeeps that I've seen (not
all that many) that had soft tops also had padded rollbars.

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications Internation Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

Date: Tue,  6 Dec 1994 15:39:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Lug wrench

Brad, I believe the lug nuts are 15/16", you probably won't find a
standard lug wrench "X"bar to fit. Go to the auto parts store and get a
15/16" deepwell 1/2" drive impact socket, and a 1/2" breaker bar. The
longer the better. 
Then just for kickers get a three foot long piece of pipe that will just
fit over the handle of the breaker bar. This is for extra leverage to
break them loose, not for tightening. 
Wrap them all up in a nice tool bag, ready for use when the dreaded air
thief strikes.
Later  jon

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: Lug wrench
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 16:31:15 -0500 (EST)

> I know this is silly, but I'm having absolutely no luck finding a plain 
> ol' lug wrench that's big enough for those monster LR nuts. My only 
> options seem to be over-priced: mail order or the hardware store's 
> much-too-fancy 1/2" drive with a 1 1/16" socket.

	Hmmm, I have never actually looked for a lug wrench for the
	wheel nuts.  I would have thought they were available.  Myself,
	I have a 3/4" drive & socket for them.  Generally nasty little 
	things that don't like to co-operate.  This approach solved 
	that (and a piece of pipe sometimes...)

	

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: question for 90 owners
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 16:35:04 -0500 (EST)

> 	When the US 90s first got the US, I compared it to my SIII.  Assuming
> you take the roll bar off (which looks like 1/2 an hour's work with the
> special, many point, star head bolts) the only modification that
> would need to be done to a Series hardtop is to make cuts to allow for the
> windshield  being ~2 inches taller.

	Never really looked at the roll bar closely.  Is it mounted on
	top of the box like the old military roll bars, or does it go 
	into and through the box to the frame area?  If mounted on top
	of the box, removal would be as easy as you say.  In fact if
	you really wanted to keep a rool bar, find a military one that 
	fits under the 88 hard top and put it on.  

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: Lug wrench
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 16:40:22 -0500 (EST)

> Brad, I believe the lug nuts are 15/16",

	Two sizes are possible.  This and 1 1/16".  Mix and match to
	confuse... :-)

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: question for 90 owners
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 16:38:32 -0500 (EST)

> LRNA had really made a point of asking him not do it. BTW, do you have any
> specifics on bringing over containers from the UK? I know you guys have done
> it several times. How much does it really cost, and how much does it really save.
> And who do you arrange it through?

	We never have done a container load of stuff from the UK.  From out
	west, yes, but not the UK.  Up to now everything has fit on pallets
	and we have those come across on ship, then railed to Ottawa.  The
	last order was a metric ton of stuff (mostly springs to get that
	weight) and cost about $300US to get it to Montreal, about a hundred
	twenty five miles from here.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: question for 90 owners 
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 13:57:27 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <9412062135.AA10855@emr1.emr.ca>you write:
> > 	When the US 90s first got the US, I compared it to my SIII.  Assuming
  
> 	Never really looked at the roll bar closely.  Is it mounted on
> 	top of the box like the old military roll bars, or does it go 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> 	you really wanted to keep a rool bar, find a military one that 
> 	fits under the 88 hard top and put it on.  

	The rollbar is bolted on in front near the windscreen and behind the
front seats to provide a roll cage.  I assume they strengthened the areas
that they bolted to (not just bolted to aluminum panels).  The military
roll bars that I have seen were just a and upsidedown U that was fitted just
behind the front seats.

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications Internation Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

From: rmodica@east.pima.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 16:02:49 MST
Subject: RE: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

> From:	MX%"Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net"  6-DEC-1994 01:19:10.16
> To:	MX%"LRO-Digest@uk.stratus.com"
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 1347 lines)]
> Distribution: 	world
> Precedence: 	bulk
get lro-digest

------------------------------

From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Sound deadening
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 10:04:56 EDT

Hi all,
        Does any one know what sort of material I should use for sound 
deadening (Spelling?) as you can really tell that there are second hand 
gears in my gearbox, its so loud that you can only just hear the diesel!
The material would preferably not rot, as I wish to put it on the 
underneath of the transmission tunnel, and maybe the seat box, so it does 
not look like I have any sound deadening, any thoughts or ideas, not 
matter how stupid or erelevant(spelling?) will be welcomed, as once I get 
rid of the gearbox whine, I will only probably hear the whir from the 
tires, which can be solved by putting a floor mat in the load space in 
the back, I hope!  And since I can't hear my motor for the gear box, I 
have one for members of the oily wad club, how noisey is the 2.25 diesel 
when sitting on about 50MPH with out an overdrive, as I can't hear it!

--
==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                            1955 Series 1 86"
LROC of Victoria Australia                              2.25 diesel 
LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia                    I slow on hills!
email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                         but not of my own will

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Sound deadening 
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 15:17:20 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Craig Murry wrote:

>         Does any one know what sort of material I should use for sound 
> deadening (Spelling?) as you can really tell that there are second hand 
> gears in my gearbox, its so loud that you can only just hear the diesel!

	What I did for my 88 petrol was cut some pieces of old carpet to
fit on the floor boards of the front and over the transmission hump.  I also
cut the carpet to fit in back.  This carpet is not tacked down, it just has
holes for things like gearshift levers and gravity to holds it in place.  Now,
my Rover is not quiet, but it is much quieter.  Now I can hold decent 
conversations up to ~40 mph with the hardtop on.
	I've had this in for about 2.5 years, and the carpet has gotten
soaked repeatedly and not rotted yet.
	You could buy the rubber floor mats, but that would cost $$$ 

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications Internation Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 10:51:12 +1100
From: lloyd@indy14.cs.monash.edu.au (Lloyd Allison)

Ascii-Art and the WWW:
   I have saved it for www-posterity in the directory
   <A HREF="http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/LRO">LRO</A>
   Together with a few other things from the mailing list that I think
   have "lasting value" -  I hope nobody minds?
   I do not want to set up a full archive site particularly.

   [As I recall, 110s and presumably 90s have 3 hinges on the
    SW-style rear door.  It is not a trivial matter to add a 3rd hinge to
    an earlier model as the frame should be strengthened to prevent the bolts
    from crushing it, no?]

L-R Fire-Engines:
   Does anyone have a `gif' (or a photo that they would loan me)
   of a L-R fire-engine  - without copyright problems - please?

Lloyd
Dept. of Computer Science, Monash University, Clayton, Victoria 3168, AUSTRALIA
tel: 61 3 905 5205       fax: 61 3 905 5146       email: lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au
<A HREF="http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover">Land-Rover</A>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 94 16:06:03 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Lug wrench

In message <9412062131.AA10390@emr1.emr.ca> Dixon Kenner writes:
> > I know this is silly, but I'm having absolutely no luck finding a plain 
> > ol' lug wrench that's big enough for those monster LR nuts. My only 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> 	things that don't like to co-operate.  This approach solved 
> 	that (and a piece of pipe sometimes...)

The X type lug wrenches that fit the large Land Rover nuts must be available.. I
have one in my 109.  I purchased it soon after I got the car in '78.  Try a 
place that caters to the pickup & 4X4 crowd.  They might have a bigger size.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 16:36:21 -0800
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: Re: Lug wrench

>In message <9412062131.AA10390@emr1.emr.ca> Dixon Kenner writes:
>> > I know this is silly, but I'm having absolutely no luck finding a plain
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
>have one in my 109.  I purchased it soon after I got the car in '78.  Try a
>place that caters to the pickup & 4X4 crowd.  They might have a bigger size.

I bought an X type lug wrench for my rover last year at a good autoparts
store in Rocester, NY, USA. It was the first place I tried...

jory

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: question for 90 owners
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 94 16:41:19 PST

> In message <9412062135.AA10855@emr1.emr.ca>you write:
> > > 	When the US 90s first got the US, I compared it to my SIII.  Assuming
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)]
> roll bars that I have seen were just a and upsidedown U that was fitted just
> behind the front seats.

The front mount point is to the front bulkhead.
The center hoop is quite impressive, as it is a square design
which is bolted to the top of the frame. It actually continues
under the scuttle to form a continues loop.
the rear hoop is mounted to the rear cross member.
I suppose if the body became disconnected from the Frame the center
roll bar would still provide some protection.

Russ

------------------------------

From: "Rostykus, John" <john@dspmail.Data-IO.COM>
Subject: Re: Lug wrench
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 94 16:42:00 PST

>The X type lug wrenches that fit the large Land Rover nuts must be
>available..

I too found one at our local 'B&B Auto parts'.  It fits the lug nuts on both 
the 109 & RR - quite handy.  I think this was the first 'tool' I acquired 
after my first LR purchase.

Rosty
john@data-io.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 18:57:03 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: New Rangie in BritCar Mag

FYI...  The new Range Rover will be featured in the next (Jan '95) issue of 
British Car magazine.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 22:11:05 -0600 (CST)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: question for 90 owners 

I was at an unveiling of the new dealership for Land Rover in Manitoba 
and I ran across Mr Manesey (sp?) fro Land Rover Canada.  I asked about 
the roll bar on the Defender and he told me it was because the U.S. is 
litigation crazy and even though the vehicle met the standards without it 
they wanted to make sure they had a safe vehicle.  I think he or the 
service manager told me that the 88 hardtop will fit the Defender with 
the roll bar off.  By the way, Land Rover Canada provided a very nice 
keepsake to the invited guests at this opening.  They were candy dishes 
with tops.  The dish says Land Rover on one side and Birchwood Motors on 
the other.  There is a tight fitting lid and it is filled with candy.  
Maybe your dealer has something similar for you collectors out there.  If 
not try getting in touch with Land Rover Canada.  There were hundreds at 
this opening and lots were left over.  I only took one because I didn't 
see the logo till I got home! Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 22:16:55 -0600 (CST)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: question for 90 owners 

Did you happen to notice the very nice rubber mats in the back area.  
They go right up on the seat box area and they have a big Land Rover logo 
on the floor part.  The seats look like they would be a nice addition to 
the 88 as well as the pipe unit behind the drivers seat could replace the 
bulk head so the seats could be moved back about two inches.  This would 
solve the old problem of no leg room in the 88.  I like the high stop 
light bar.  I think I might buy one and put it on my Ser IIA.  Lots of 
parts in this vehicle could find their way into mine over the next few 
years.  Dave VE4PN
On Tue, 6 Dec 1994, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote:

> TeriAnn wrote:
> > > I still don't know why someone with a US spec 90 couldn't remove the 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)]
>  China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center
>  bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
>  1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

From: Trinitee@aol.com
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 23:18:02 -0500
Subject: Subscribe

Please add my to the Land Rover mailing list. My info is:
 P. de Gourville, 5769 Beltline Rd, Apt 922, Dallas,TX, 75240.
THANKS!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 22:28:01 -0600 (CST)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Sound deadening

There is a rubber material sold just for this purpose.  It comes in 12" 
square pieces and it has a very good adhesion glue on it that is paper 
peal and stick.  The material is about 1/4 inch thick and comes in boxes 
of 12 tiles.  It is available from autobody shops or specialty shops like 
racing speed shops.  I have it in mine and it works great.  On the rear 
floor I have loading dock rubber.  This material is about 1/2" thick and 
is the material they make conveyer belting from.  It is a great sound 
deadening material and it can be hosed out when dirty.  It makes a good 
traction mat if you get stuck because it is indestructible.  I took the 
black carpet from a Pinto hatchback with the felt backing and covered the 
front mats as well.  All this makes a very nice quiet vehicle.  By the 
way I also covered the seat box with the black carpet.  I was allowed to 
take all I could carry from a wrecker for $5.00.  Not a bad way to make a 
Saloon Car from a truck! Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 1994 00:08:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Lug wrench

Brad sez...

> I know this is silly, but I'm having absolutely no luck finding a plain 
> ol' lug wrench that's big enough for those monster LR nuts. My only 
> options seem to be over-priced: mail order or the hardware store's 
> much-too-fancy 1/2" drive with a 1 1/16" socket.

And from Jon...

> Brad, I believe the lug nuts are 15/16", you probably won't find a
> standard lug wrench "X"bar to fit. Go to the auto parts store and get a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> fit over the handle of the breaker bar. This is for extra leverage to
> break them loose, not for tightening. 

Yep, folks.. Two sizes, no waiting..  I think that the 15/16" nuts were on
the earlier vehicles and the 1 1/16 on the Ser III.. I'm probably wrong..
I've used a 1/2" drive breaker bar with 1 1/16" nut for years for my SerIII.
John's right about the pipe.. Sometimes the buggers just rust up to the
wheel and it's hell getting them loose. Here's a solution.. Put Never-sieze
on the beveled edge of the nut.. it helps.
As to a "X" bar lug wrench for the big nuts.. You may have to check out a
truck center or farm supply for that one.. 15/16 lug wrench is easier to
find.  
Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)       
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 1994 00:08:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Sound deadening

Ben lays some carpet...

> Craig Murry wrote:
> >         Does any one know what sort of material I should use for sound 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> > deadening (Spelling?) as you can really tell that there are second hand 
> > gears in my gearbox, its so loud that you can only just hear the diesel!

Ben's reply started...

>         What I did for my 88 petrol was cut some pieces of old carpet to
> fit on the floor boards of the front and over the transmission hump.  I

Ben... Craig needs some industrial strength sound proofing material... He
says he can't hear his DIESEL over the sound the tranny makes... Yow!! That
must be one heck of LOUD transmission...  I've ridden in Steve Denis' 109
when it had the diesel engine... In Steve's words "louder than a Siberian
boiler factory".. he used to wear ear protectors.. you know those things
that look like big headphones... 
Craig.. a while back there was a message thread about an accoustic material
some people were using.. Can't remember the name of the stuff but I remember
it was expensive.. 
If you go the "old carpet" route.. find some nice thick pile stuff.. :)
I don't know about putting it under the hump/floor/seatbox.. That's in the
"automatic oiler" zone down there.. 
Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)       
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 

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