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Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest 
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 94 06:17:17 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

    From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
    Subject: Re: Camel Trophy 95
    
    < etc.  They didn't always sponsor the Camel Trophy, but I understand that 
    < the past 3 or 4 years they have handled all the publicity for the Camel 
    < Trophy event.
    
>   (WBI) has sponsored Camel Trophy from the beginning.  

	'Camel' (as in I'd walk a mile for a...), and the classic green and
	tan Camel trophy logo have been there for years... some
	some years ago (5-10), 'Camel' (as in the smokin' Joe kiddie brand)
	ceased to be the proper sponser, but handed it off to the now
	lucrative 'Camel Trophy Adventure Gear/Wear' to sponser, eg. the
	marketing of associated 'name' items had become a profit making
	end in it self (witness the 'Marlboro Classics' store just out side
	of convent garden, at your local NASCAR event, etc.)
    
>   There is a Worldwide Brands Inc in Grimbergen, Belgium, but it is a
>   management consulting service.  (Boechoutlaan 55, Grimbergen 1853, tel
	things are often named for what they are not...
>   There is also an RJR-WBI office in Hong Kong.  I can't imagine the

	More likely they're wholely-owned subsidiaries operating in the 
EMEA  (Europe MiddleEast and Afrrica) and AP (Asia-Pacific) business
regions, which seems to be the trend for U.S. companies [looking across
the Atlantic or Pacific]. 
    
    ------------------------------
    
    From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
    Subject: Re: equipment / chains
    
>   there. IOW, on a Land Rover you *don't need chains in deep snow* .
>   A different thing is hard, compacted snow 'polished' by traffic (or
>   skiers), or icy roads. There, nothing beats chains.

	Another entirely different kind of snow is what happens after you
get 18 to 24 inches and then it does a freezing rain bit... basically,
the snow was crusted over hard enough I could walk on it (and for those of
you who haven't met me, I should say bit closer to 20 stone than 10 stone)
The rover (OK, so they were kind of pacifist tyres), was doing
ok until John hit a slight drift on an incline.  It went up a little and then  
managed to settle into the drift.  In the middle of this sheet of ice above
the snow.  Some hacking to remove the  obstructing ice in front and stuffed
up before frame rails and it was off again. 
    
    ------------------------------

European Delivery:
	One salesman at Keeler in Albany left me with the impression that
	it _was_ possible, however, that _was_ a sales droid. FYI: I rang up
	H.R.Owen, a (not particluarly liked) LR/RR dealer in London, and the
	sales droid there said that as a UK dealer, he could only order UK
	units.    I looked about the rear of LRO, but could find no UK dealers
	that said they did exports. 

	As I recall LRNA is in MD or VA, and you might want to ring them.  I
	also recall that Rovers North advertised LR vehicles for export, so
	failing LRNA, you might want to give them a ring.

	If all that fails, find out what Beemers do, and then write to 
	Solihul and Munich and ask why LR doesn't do the same...

Stefen: still haven't sold that LHD SIII eh ?

rd/nige: the digester isn't able to trim the long  forwarded passages that
	 have line splits added when wrapped, so be nice and don't
	 forward the whole message, or don't split the lines so the digester
	 doesn't hurl, eh ?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Dec 1994 08:00:11 -0500
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: Donner Pass

Morgan wrote:

none
I come to the check-point where the CHP and CalTrans makes sure vehicles are 
equiped to go through the Donner Summit including talking to drivers of ill 
prepared cars.  I pull up, and they just chuckled and waved me through.
none

I've heard a lot about Donner Pass and saw Ken Burns' brothers documentry on 
the Donner party, but I'm curious.  What is the pass like?  Has anyone driven 
that and Smuggler's Notch in VT also?  How do they compare?  Smuggler's 
Notch is fairly steep (no trucks/trailers allowed) and requires full lock and 
1st gear on the 109 at times, but the Donner Pass is much more legendary.  
Sandy, have you driven both?

Bill

maloney@wings.attmail.com

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Donner Pass
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 94 4:20:35 PST

> I've heard a lot about Donner Pass and saw Ken Burns' brothers documentry on 
> the Donner party, but I'm curious.  What is the pass like?  Has anyone driven 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> Bill
> maloney@wings.attmail.com
I have driven, and skied smugglers notch. I don't remember the drive as
overly exciting, but skiing down the road on glare ice was a blast.
(We camped in the hut at the top of the notch.)
Russ

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Floyd on FWH
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 94 12:36:29 GMT

There's a letter in the current issue of LRW (just arrived this
morning...early!)on the subject of FWH,written by Ross Floyd of
the Series Two Club.He hates them!Basically,his opinion is that
they dont give any better fuel consumption because you tend to
use the extra power available to go faster,you tend never to
engage them to sling some oil around in the swivel housings,
(oil?what oil)and......and this I *cant* really credit..he
uses low box for parking and shunting trailers around!Without
the hubs engaged,what's more,whch doesnt do his back axle an
awful lot of good.I dont know what worldwide opinion is on this,
but my view is he asks for all he gets.If you want better fuel
consumption,then dont bleed the stuff of with speed.Driver's 
option,no?Point about the oil I reckon is fair enough,I dont
know anyone that *does* engage the things for this purpose.
I talked a mate into doing it with his S111 once,and he reckoned
the noise was so incredible that he'll never do it again!
As for using low box for shoving trailers around,on tarmac,well,
even *I* dont have to resort to that,and I dont rate myself any
particular dab hand at reversing horse boxes into spaces *just*
too small for them:-((.But use low box?Be damned if I will.
What do the rest of you think?
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Waxoyl ingredients
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 94 7:27:31 PST

> the nasties of nature and does all the work.  I know, I'll taste it.  Gotta be
> able to taste wax.....There's ah, nope...no warnings on the label...says it's
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> pushin' pills on a baby.  It *does* tell me not to put it in my eyes, and to
> keep it out of the reach of children, but I drink stuff like that.  How do you
> folks get away with this???  Don't got no legislaaation?  Too much??

I think the proper application here is to dilute the waxole with cheap
Scotch, or kerosene. Warm it gently, light the liqued, and drink the
mixture rather rapidly....
Russ
(please don't try this at home. only trained rover nuts in
garages should attempt this)
(please don't try this at home. only trained rover nuts in

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Dec 94 08:22:19 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Waxoyl equivalents?

In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.941129114247.28090B-100000@pathos.Berkeley.EDU> Morgan
Hannaford writes:
> I've never seen waxoyl(sic) on the shelf, and apparently others have
> received strange responses from hardware stores for asking 
none

Morgan, You can mail order Waxol from Moss Motors (800-235-6954) in Goleta CA.
Ask for their Austain Healey catalogue.  There are a number of electrical parts 
that these cars share with Land Rovers & you can get them cheaper than through 
Rovers North.

                     

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Thu,  1 Dec 1994 11:42:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Waxoyl equivalents?

Russ writes;
>	 rd/nige
>ps I'll check on the ingredients tonight
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>pps what's the cost??  The waxoyl was $30ish a can from Moss Motors.
>(and a can is a half gallon)
 
I just got a price from one distributor here in Pittsburgh of
$43.07/gallon, and $8.88/11oz. spray can.
I got a price last night from another supplier of $4.70/11oz.spray can.
He didn't have any gallons.
Go figure?
Jon

------------------------------

Date: Thu,  1 Dec 1994 11:49:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Waxoyl equivalents? addendum

>pps what's the cost??  The waxoyl was $30ish a can from Moss Motors.
>(and a can is a half gallon)
 
I just got a price from one distributor here in Pittsburgh of
$43.07/gallon, and $8.88/11oz. spray can.
I got a price last night from another supplier of $4.70/11oz.spray can.
He didn't have any gallons.
Go figure?
Jon
Sorry about that. These are the prices for LPS 3 HD rust inhib.
Seems the utilities and the city use a lot of it on their stuff.

------------------------------

From: "Rostykus, John" <john@dspmail.Data-IO.COM>
Subject: Re: Moss Motors picture
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 94 09:58:00 PST

>... and then Art Van der Star's ultra cool
>Ser lla 109 Fire Truck. This was one of two Rovers that were purchased
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>water tank mounted. He really enjoys the rig and loves to talk about
>it's history to all who ask.

For anyone interested, this vehicle had a for-sale sign on it at the meet...

Rosty
john@data-io.com

------------------------------

From: "Rostykus, John" <john@dspmail.Data-IO.COM>
Subject: RE: Hybridizing
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 94 10:24:00 PST

>I am considering turning the Series IIA into a hybrid. Anyone know where
>to get a cheap '90 or Range Rover chassis to play with.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>and what type of motor and costs were associated.
>James Spyker  196? SIIA

Sorry about the noise, but my mailer ate your 'return address'.

I put a perkins 4.182 in my '79 RR.  Please e-mail me directly for more 
details.

Rosty
john@data-io.com

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Floyd on FWH 
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 1994 10:51:10 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Mike Rooth wrote:

> you tend never to
> engage them to sling some oil around in the swivel housings,
> (oil?what oil)and...

      [snip]

> Point about the oil I reckon is fair enough,I dont
> know anyone that *does* engage the things for this purpose.
> I talked a mate into doing it with his S111 once,and he reckoned
> the noise was so incredible that he'll never do it again!

	I'm tring to take better care of my Rover from now on.  I've been
engaging the hubs and driving a few miles once a week to sling the oil
around.  Of course in the weeks that I go off road I can ignore this.   Since
I'm putting 300 to 400 miles on the Rover every week I figures that this would
be a good idea.  But we'll see how long I actually keep remembering in do it. 

	I'm also tring to get into the habit of changing the oil every 3000miles
instead of every 5000.   Which reminds me, I should change the oil tomorrow. 

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications Internation Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

From: Mike Dryfoos <mikedr@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu,  1 Dec 94 11:06:38 TZ
Subject: Range Rover owner goes retro

Well, inspired in part by you lot, and the sheer funky charm of the 
beast, I've gone out and acquired a '71 Series IIA 88", to keep the '92 
Range Rover company.  The previous owner bought the thing in somewhat 
sad shape, and spent a couple of years restoring bits and pieces of 
engine, brakes, suspension, attacking rust spots, repainting it the 
original poppy red and limestone, and rebuilding the interior.  It is 
fully dressed with accessories, to wit, a Superwinch overdrive, 
Dualmatic FWHs, Warn winch, safari roof, roof-line air intake snorkel, 
and even a radio.  It needs new parking brake shoes now, new tires 
soon, and and engine rebuild in a couple of years.  The odometer shows 
about 115,000 miles.

My wife and I are training two search and rescue dogs, which involves 
frequent trips to the mountains for exercises.  We've been using the RR 
for transport, but the dogs are pretty hard on it.  We'll now be using 
the LR instead -- after all, what is there for the dogs to destroy, anyway?

I don't have a lot of experience with automotive mechanics, so this is 
going to be a big learning experience for me.  I figured with the old 
Rover's reputation as an easy-to-work-on vehicle, this would be a good 
place to start.  I'm sure I'll have lots of questions for the old hands 
among you.  Any words of encouragment or warning about what I should be 
watching out for now?  Any Seattle-area folks willing to provide 
hands-on advice to a novice owner?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Dec 94 12:08:23 PST
From: labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch)
Subject: A few thoughts on Winches

I have just a few thoughts on winches since this seems to be the 
subject lately.

If you have say a 8,000lb winche you can actually increase this
to 16,000lb by simple adding an appropriatly weighted pully.  When
doing this you want to make sure that all the components will 
handle the strain.  The cable should be fine as is because you
are effectively doubling it over.  Have an extra long length 
of chain or cable that can handle 16,000lbs that you could attach
one end to an achor and one end to the pully.  Pull your cable
all the way out, wrap it around the pully and attach the hook
end back on you vehicle.  The speed of the winche will be cut
in half but you will have lots of pulling power.

Another Idea is that if you have the proper fittings you can use
your high lift jack as a hand winche thus eliminating the need
for a power winche.  It is good to have these fittings any way
incase your powered winche fails mechanically.

My last thought is personal.  Be very careful about what you attach
the end of the cables to.  Take caution of where you stand and 
where others are standing in relation to the vehicle and the achor.
This is especially true for streaching ropes.  A young boy I knew
was watching as a vehicle was pulling a platform out of a lake and
was killed instantly when a piece of an anchor riped off and shoved his
nose into his brain.

Jason LaBranch

------------------------------

Subject: Re: A few thoughts on Winches 
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 1994 12:30:36 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Jason LaBranch wrote:
  
> If you have say a 8,000lb winche you can actually increase this
> to 16,000lb by simple adding an appropriatly weighted pully.  When

	Yup.  Warn sells a kit with a snatch block (pulley), tree strap,
a length of chain, gloves and shackle (for attaching the snatch block
to the tree strap).  The snatch block is also useful for times when you
can't get a straight line pull from your vehicle to the anchor that you
are using.  The snatch block can be used to put a bend in the cable.

        
> Another Idea is that if you have the proper fittings you can use
> your high lift jack as a hand winche thus eliminating the need
> for a power winche.  It is good to have these fittings any way
> incase your powered winche fails mechanically.

	Although this takes a bloody long time.  But it works in a pinch.

> My last thought is personal.  Be very careful about what you attach
> the end of the cables to.  Take caution of where you stand and 
> where others are standing in relation to the vehicle and the achor.

	Just be careful.   Ropes and cables can break and when they do
they will cut through people.  When I use the winch, I toss a blanket on
top of the cable.  This way if the cable severs or the anchor pulls out, there
is some mass trying to keep the cable on the ground.   I'd much rather loose
a foot than my head.  Another safety recommendation is to put the hood
of your vehicle up when you are doing heavy winching.  That way the hood
(and tyre for Land Rovers) takes the impact instead of the windshield and
possibly your head.

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications Internation Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Dec 94 12:35:25 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Moss Motors picture

In message <2EDE0EAE@dspmail.data-io.com> "Rostykus, John" writes:
> >... and then Art Van der Star's ultra cool
> >Ser lla 109 Fire Truck. This was one of two Rovers that were purchased
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> For anyone interested, this vehicle had a for-sale sign on it at the meet...
> Rosty
> john@data-io.com

Dare I ask how much was asked for the LR???

A neighbor's house, 1/4 mi away through the forrest, went up in flames a week 
ago.  Had everything not been wet from a recent rain, the whole neighborhood 
could have had gone up.  Watching the neighbor trying to fight the fire with a 
gargen hose as the fire was engulfing the garage then going to the house while 
the fire department was going back & forth on a nearby road trying to find the 
correct road did not inspire confidence.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

From: "Rostykus, John" <john@dspmail.Data-IO.COM>
Subject: Re: Moss Motors picture
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 94 13:51:00 PST

>> >... and then Art Van der Star's ultra cool
  <snip>
>> >it's history to all who ask.
>> For anyone interested, this vehicle had a for-sale sign on it at the 
none
meet...
>> Rosty
>> john@data-io.com
>Dare I ask how much was asked for the LR???
none

Vague recollection says $10,000 canadian.

b.t.w. I have no intention of representing this vehicle, but would be glad 
to help anyone interested in contacting the owner (I do not know Art 
personally, but know folks who do).

Rosty
john@data-io.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Dec 94 16:40:43 CST
From: jahoff@heartland.bradley.edu (Janice Hoffart)
Subject: Unsubscribe

Please unsubscribe jahoff@heartland.bradley.edu
Thank you...

--
Benjamin J. Freeman
Lanf"Land Rover Fanatice!"
73' Series III , Owner

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: Imposing Winch & Starter Problems
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 18:42:39 -0500 (EST)

> I received the Rovers North Newsletter today, and noticed a familiar name 
> from this list had the "most imposing winch". (Dixon Kenner)  Very nice! 

	A Koenig pto winch.  There are a bunch in OVLR and on the list.

> Actually, this is more than slightly inconvenient, it is very very very 
> annoying.  Why am I plagued with this problem??  

	1.	How are the studs?
	2.	How are the lock washers? (flat?)
	3.	Try brass nuts that get tighter are they heat up, thus
		should not loosen.
	4.	Are the studs stripped at the endwhere they should be tight?
	5.	Are the nuts semi-stripped?

	Not to many reasons why this can happen...
	
	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 16:38:09 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: Imposing Winch & Starter Problems

> > Actually, this is more than slightly inconvenient, it is very very very 
> > annoying.  Why am I plagued with this problem??  

 Put new lock washers on it.
 
 Put nylon stop nuts (aircraft) on it. They are 3/8-24 (AF).

 Do both.

R, bg

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: waxoyl vs. LPS
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 94 19:48:44 EST

OK, one more time

Morgan saiz LPS has

> Ingedients: (get out your chem. 1A text)
> Aliphatic hydrocarbon, petrolium oil, Dipropylene glycol monomethyl ether

No need for the chem text, this is basic stuff.  Aliphatic hydrocarbons
could mean lotsa stuff, but here they probably mean a mixture of things
like pentanes, hexanes, heptanes, octanes, nonanes, decanes, etc,
etc....basically all solvents.  Petro oil-ahh, lube.  Anything from
vasoline to 5 wt and back to wheel bearing grease.  Probably a
crude mix taken straight from the hull of a ship.  Dipropylene glycol
monomethyl ether.....CH3OCH2CH2CH2OCH2CH2CH2OH, and isomers thereof.
Just for kicks I looked up what this stuff is used for.  Apparently,
it is used in the ink industry rather extensively (and several of the
abstracts of papers and patents I read mentioned that the resulting
ink when used in ball point pens prevents the corrosion of the ball
point-but there were other things in the ink that could have been 
responsible for the anti-corrosive properties)  One paper was
entitled "Two-component permanent-waving composition for human hair",
....so maybe this IS the magic ingredient in waxoyl!

But no mention of wax or parrafin itself, aye??

> If anyone has a waxoyl jug handy, let's compare ingredients.

Well, as I said, whatever it is it ain't on the label.  I made a
brief attempt to look up waxoyl.  Got nothin'.  Looked up 
hammerite (even though it isn't claimed to be in waxoyl, but waxoyl
is made by the same folks-the Hammerite Corporation, or something
to that effect-that market hammerite).  It turned up one reference
to a Copper-lead-bismuth sulfide complex, but it was on the
crystal forms of this stuff (which is apparently mined...and therefore
might not be considered "chemical" but rather "mineral" to  the
marketing folk who wrote the label I described earlier) and what
"point group" they fall into.  Nothing about its use.

I then spoke with an information specialist here at work...a library
dude.  He said that the composition was probably a trade secret, and
suggested the best he or I would come up with would be to find out
who makes the stuff...and we already know that.  He then went on to
tell a story about his grad school advisor that got so hung up on
the composition of a gas additive (that he couldn't find out from
the patent literature) that he had one of his students inject the 
stuff into a gc.....they basically watched peak after peak come
off for the rest of the day.  I don't think I'll be injecting
any waxoyl into my gc.

so there you have it-it's a trade secret.  But if you are "hooked on
phonics" and barely literate, you could probably figure out that
it has wax and oil in it.  If and when I find some parafin lying
around I think I'll toss it into some hexane, spray it on my 
fume hood on a metal area, park some nasty acid under it, and see
if the sprayed part offers any protection.

If it works, how much you wanna buy??

rd/nigel

------------------------------

From: jpappa01@interserv.com
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 20:04:56 -0800
Subject: Re: 	The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

DEFENDER 90 UPDATES:

ITS HERE AT LONG LAST!! The GRP H A R D T O P is finally a reality!! It can 
now be ordered through any authorized dealer. Hard price is not known but 
around $2,000. It looks GREAT! Official ship date was 11/29. Any bad news? Oh 
sure. Yes, ANOTHER WAITING LIST. Dealers being RATIONED initially to FIVE 
tops/month. Better scurry on down now if you want one for this winter! First 
color ad showing the top is featured in the latest AUTOMOBILE magazine (BMW M3 
cover).

And in equally exciting news... the (gasp!) ALUMINUM HARDTOP DEFENDER 90 is 
now in the port and being shipped to dealers... AS WE SPEAK! You think that 
demand for the DEFENDER 110 was bad? What about 40(!!) aluminum hardtop 
models!!! Yep. A-bud-ia, bud-ia, bud-ia - that's all, folks! 1 RED, 2 WHITE, 
and 37 CONNISTON GREEN units. A strategic source has informed me that although 
NOTHING is FOREVER, that the 40 units is it! Take that for what its worth. 
FORTY units! And 87 dealers! Guess what? Here we go again, another feeding 
frenzy! I know who has a deposit on the first unit to be shipped to the local 
dealership around here (NO - IT IS NOT ME, OK?). I'll blow his cover if he 
takes delivery of it in THE ROVER REFERENCE. PRICE? N/A. BODY COLOR SIDES, 
ALPINE WHITE TOP SECTION. GET THIS -- SERIES ONE (ONE!!) UPPER TAILGATE LID!! 
YES! LR HAD TO DIG UP THE TOOLING FROM SOME PRIVATE CITIZEN IN UK WHO 
PURCHASED SAME A JILLION YEARS AGO! WOW! I LOVE IT... 

I hope to scoff a complete photo shoot of the first unit and make the shots 
available via Club newsletter. Guess what else (decadence, here we come...)? 
Yes, a POWERED SUBWOOFER/CD CHANGER FOR DEFENDER 90 AS AN ACCESSORY! Which 
means that DEFENDER 110 owners are LIBERATED as well. Should work via existing 
head unit in 90/110! 1995 DEFENDER 90 to come with a partial soft top standard 
in lieu of tonneau cover. No more AIRIES BLUE for `95. BELUGA BLACK to be 
regular production color instead. That's all I know for now. Nothing on 1995 
prices. Shouldn't be too bad since DISCO increase was nominal.

Stay tuned. ROVER TIMEOUT.

Jim Pappas
BSROA
jpappa01@interserv.com

------------------------------

From: jpappa01@interserv.com
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 20:04:56 -0800
Subject: Re: 	The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

DEFENDER 90 UPDATES:

ITS HERE AT LONG LAST!! The GRP H A R D T O P is finally a reality!! It can 
now be ordered through any authorized dealer. Hard price is not known but 
around $2,000. It looks GREAT! Official ship date was 11/29. Any bad news? Oh 
sure. Yes, ANOTHER WAITING LIST. Dealers being RATIONED initially to FIVE 
tops/month. Better scurry on down now if you want one for this winter! First 
color ad showing the top is featured in the latest AUTOMOBILE magazine (BMW M3 
cover).

And in equally exciting news... the (gasp!) ALUMINUM HARDTOP DEFENDER 90 is 
now in the port and being shipped to dealers... AS WE SPEAK! You think that 
demand for the DEFENDER 110 was bad? What about 40(!!) aluminum hardtop 
models!!! Yep. A-bud-ia, bud-ia, bud-ia - that's all, folks! 1 RED, 2 WHITE, 
and 37 CONNISTON GREEN units. A strategic source has informed me that although 
NOTHING is FOREVER, that the 40 units is it! Take that for what its worth. 
FORTY units! And 87 dealers! Guess what? Here we go again, another feeding 
frenzy! I know who has a deposit on the first unit to be shipped to the local 
dealership around here (NO - IT IS NOT ME, OK?). I'll blow his cover if he 
takes delivery of it in THE ROVER REFERENCE. PRICE? N/A. BODY COLOR SIDES, 
ALPINE WHITE TOP SECTION. GET THIS -- SERIES ONE (ONE!!) UPPER TAILGATE LID!! 
YES! LR HAD TO DIG UP THE TOOLING FROM SOME PRIVATE CITIZEN IN UK WHO 
PURCHASED SAME A JILLION YEARS AGO! WOW! I LOVE IT... 

I hope to scoff a complete photo shoot of the first unit and make the shots 
available via Club newsletter. Guess what else (decadence, here we come...)? 
Yes, a POWERED SUBWOOFER/CD CHANGER FOR DEFENDER 90 AS AN ACCESSORY! Which 
means that DEFENDER 110 owners are LIBERATED as well. Should work via existing 
head unit in 90/110! 1995 DEFENDER 90 to come with a partial soft top standard 
in lieu of tonneau cover. No more AIRIES BLUE for `95. BELUGA BLACK to be 
regular production color instead. That's all I know for now. Nothing on 1995 
prices. Shouldn't be too bad since DISCO increase was nominal.

Stay tuned. ROVER TIMEOUT.

Jim Pappas
BSROA
jpappa01@interserv.com

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 1994 00:17:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Range Rover owner goes retro

Mike sees the light and goes leafsprung...
> Well, inspired in part by you lot, and the sheer funky charm of the 
> beast, I've gone out and acquired a '71 Series IIA 88", to keep the '92 
> Range Rover company. 
none
--snip---
> among you.  Any words of encouragment or warning about what I should be 
> watching out for now?

Mike... 
Congrats on your new addition...
I'm not from Seattle but I'll add my two cents...

1. Watch those Dualmatic hubs... (They have the bar you pull out and turn,
right?? If not, ignore this!) More than one person has said that the bar can
pop out by itself and give you assorted problems. 

2. If you ever have to top off the brake or clutch fluids.. use CASTROL
brake fluid only!! (Unless you converted to silicone.) Some American brake
fluids have a nasty habit of destroying the rubber componants in the
hydraulic system. 

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)       
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

Subject: riding in back of a Land Rover
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 1994 21:34:38 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

	I've been meaning to send this out all week, but its been one of
those weeks....

	So last weekend I was driving around the Salton Sea area with friends.
We had a diverse collection of vecicles.  My Land Rover, a ~91 Jeep Wranger,
and older Land Cuiser, a large Chevy pickup (I forget which model) and a
dune buggy.  We all headed out along some really rough roads.  The thing
that got me was where the people decided to sit.  There were 2 each in the
jeep and dune buggy; and one each in the Land Cruiser and Pickup; and
5 in my Land Rover?!?

	The other 4 were the 16 or 17 year old daughter of the Land Cruise
owner and her friends.  I still can't believe that all 4 would voluntarily
sit in the back while I drove off road.  I did have the hardtop off, but the
ride in back, especially with two people per jump seat, leaves a lot to be 
desired.  

	One thing that I did learn on the trip was that if you have P235/75
R15 tyres, and youare driving down some railroad tracks, you can get stuck
with the plate that the Ubolts bolt to hung up on one of the rails and
the tyres on that side having traction when they are one the ties and
free spinning between the ties.  Just don't stop...  Luckily for me the
rail line was an abandoned one...

 
-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications Internation Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 1994 01:04:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: waxoyl vs. LPS

Another mystery almost solved....

> From:   IN%"dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com"  "Russell G. Dushin"  1-DEC-1994
> > Aliphatic hydrocarbon, petrolium oil, Dipropylene glycol monomethyl
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> ether
> No need for the chem text, this is basic stuff.  Aliphatic hydrocarbons

Basic for you maybe... just so much gobbledegook to me.. 

> could mean lotsa stuff, but here they probably mean a mixture of things
> like pentanes, hexanes, heptanes, octanes, nonanes, decanes, etc,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> crude mix taken straight from the hull of a ship.  Dipropylene glycol
> monomethyl ether.....CH3OCH2CH2CH2OCH2CH2CH2OH, and isomers thereof.

Ah,ha... lotsa C's and H's and O's... CH, CH, CHOO CHOO... Howzat?

I think I finally understand Russell... you did way too many chemicals... 

Well anyway.. thanks for your in-debth anaylsis of fine rust inhibitors and
hair tonic.. I think we can all rest easier knowing this.

(Quick... call the boys down at the state hospital... yeah, yeah, get the
one with the funny hair...)

Cheers!
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)       
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

Subject: California Desert Protection Act
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 1994 22:15:50 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

	A few weeks ago someone asked if I knew anything about this new
law that President Clinton signed.  At the time I didn't, but now I do
so I thought I would pass it on...

	The is from _Ecological 4 Wheeling_ Dec 1994, Vol IX, No. 9  and the 
author is Harry Lewellyn.

-------include article-----------

California Desert Protection Act
================================

	The California Desert Protection Act, as recently signed into law by
President Clinton "Did not affect the majority of Off-Highway-Vehicle (OHV)
areas" according to BLM [Bureau of Land Managment -Ben] officials.  There are
thousands of miles of designated, Limited Use Routes availible throughout the
California Desert District, for street legal 4WD vehicles and motorcycles.
	Due to the efforts of many OHV organizations, the Act preserved a number
of areas popular with the Green Sticker crowd.  Green Sticker vehicles are
those registered with the California Department of Motor Vehicles, but not
legal for highway use.  In particular, the majority of the Imperial Dunes,
Dumont Dunes, Stoddard and Johnson Valleys, Jawbone/Dove Springs and 
Spangler Hills areas remain open.
	The Act changed Death Valley and Joshua Tree National Monuments to 
National Parks.  In addition, it created the 1.4 million-acre Mojave National
Preserve where vehicular travel will also be limited to street legal 
vehicles only.
	Under BLM definition, the newly created Wilderness areas do not allow
motorized or mechanized equipment use.  A Wilderness area must be accepted
largely on its own terms.  Modern facilities for comfort and convenience are
excluded.
	In addition to the BLM OHV areas, California Department of Parks and
Recreation, Off-Highway Vehicle Recreation Division, Cliff Glidden explains
that the state operates two off-highway vehicle parks in southern California.
Ocotillo Wells State Vehicular Recreation Area (SVRA), located in eastern
San Diego County, offers more than 40,000 acres of PHV riding opportunites.
Use (619) 767-5391 for additional information.
	Hungry Valley SVRA, located at Tejon Pass near the town of Gorman,
has many challenges for all types of OHVs and all levels of experience on
the 19,000 acre facility.  There are also extensive OHV opportunites
in the adjoining Los Padres National Forest.  Call (805) 248-7000 for more 
information on Hungry Valley.

--------end article-------------

	The article also included a map of southern California and showed
the areas that are affected and listed a bunch of BLM and National Park
Service contacts for more information.

	From looking at the map:
The Mojave National Preserve: take the triangle defined by I-15, I-40 and
the California/Nevada border.  The Preserve stretches from the I-15 to the
I-40 and occupies most of the eastern half of the triangle.  The western
border of this preserve also has an attached BLM wilderness area (also borders
the I-40).  So pretty much the eastern 2/3 of this triangle is affected.
Also the corner near Needles is BLM Wilderness.

The Borders of Joshua Tree and Death Valley I believe are already fairly
well defined.

Other BLM Wilderness Areas:
  There is only one area west of the 395/I-15 line and that is up near me in
Ridgecrest.  It looks like it borders state 395 and state 14 where they
meet and extends up into the hills.
	There are a few small globs of wilderness (3) that exist on the line
between Barstow and Ridgecrest.
	Large chuncks of land ajoining Death Valley are now BLM Wilderness.
	Define the box of the Nevada/California border, I-15 from the Nevada
border to halfway to Barstow, to the South East corner of the Death Valley
Nat'l Park, and the Nat'l Park bounday up to where is joins the Nevada border.
Most (like 80%) of this land is now Wilderness.
	Now for the box of I-15 (on the west), I-40 on the north, I-10 on the
south and the California boarder on the east.  The eastern half of this box 
is about 50% BLM wilderness (lots of separate chunks--looks like a checker
board).  The western part of this box is mostly free.  There are two chucks
of BLM wilderness east of Joshua tree and two chunks East-South-East of Barstow.
	Next the box of I-15,I-10, I-8 and the California/Arizona border.  From
About where Joshua Tree Nat'l Park starts to the Arizona border along I-40
(south of) is mostly BLM wilerness.  There are a few BLM wilderness along the
CA/AZ border.   4 chunks of BLM Wilderness exist north of I-8 about halfway
between El Centro and the I-15 and one south of I-8 that extends all the way
to the Mexico border.

	I hope this is mostly clear.  (I've been here at work for 13.5 hours
and I'm beat)  I have the map, so if any of you want a photocopy, drop me
email with your snailmail address.

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications Internation Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 23:00:54 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Ascii Rovers

Thought I'd do something useful with my time, so I came up with this:

         .---------------------------------. 
        /        ___________________        \
      ,|________/  _______________  \________|,
       | .---. |  /               \  | .---. |
       | |   | | |                 |'%,|   | |
       | |   | | |                 | | |   | |
 ,---, | |   | | |                 | | |   | | ,---,
 `---'\| `---' | `-----------------' | `---' |/'---'
      ,'-------|  ___                |-------`,
      |        | /__,|              '%,       |
      |  (o)   | `---'               |   (o)  |
      |  (o)   |       .-----.       |   (o)  |
      |.------.|       |  O  |       |        |
      ||INDY 1||       | O O |       |        |
      |`------'|       `-----'      '%,       |
      |________|_____________________|________|
      ~~~~'----------,_________,----------'~~~~
       | \~/ |                         | \~/ |
       |_____|                         |_____|

Any thoughts or suggestions?

P.S. I have been snagging rovers from .sig's, so if anyone's interested, I 
could compile them and post them.  I'm afraid I've not kept track of the 
artists, though.  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 23:00:57 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Rita, Rita, (Kilo)Metre Maid

A favor to ask...  If anyone see's a college girl in a white subaru wagon 
with straps holding down the bonnet and a ton of stuff, (hopefully) headed 
east on hwy 80 from Maine to California, Could you sorta make sure she's 
pointed in the right direction?  

My sister Rita is supposed to be on her way home from college in Rhode Island 
(by way of Maine -- it's a horse thing), but we haven't heard from her for a 
couple of days...  No big deal, but my lunatic mother loves to panic, so I 
thought I'd put a note on the net.  

BTW, she'll definitely wave back.

Thanks in advance!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 

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