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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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1 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu33Smoky No Less(Well, a bit).
2 William Caloccia [calocc25RE: BMW Diesel?
3 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu23Re: rambling incitement to festiv debate...
4 Marc Kruithof [mkruitho@16equipment
5 jan [jhilborn@moose.uvm.16to subscribe...
6 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu34Attitudes/Festive Debate
7 berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff 33Re: RoverWorks Comments
8 "Stefan R. Jacob" [1000432Re: Series One Heaters; J.Craddock
9 CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR 24Erratta
10 Ray Harder [ccray@lulu.c31Re: Odd Chassis Numbers??
11 Steven M Denis [denis@o68Mikes Smokey Habit....
12 venters@atm.ox.ac.uk (Pe41Smoky diesels
13 Benjamin Allan Smith [be18[not specified]
14 Robert Davis [robdav@sun31Trashing Rovers North/Roverworks
15 azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woo14In-situ decoking
16 azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woo18Easyouts
17 Robert Davis [robdav@sun56Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
18 Robert Davis [robdav@sun56Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
19 venters@atm.ox.ac.uk (Pe47smokey diesels
20 Benjamin Allan Smith [be19[not specified]
21 Benjamin Allan Smith [be29[not specified]
22 "Russell G. Dushin" [dus24roadside emergency
23 William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.14Re: camel trophy vehicles, rochester carbs...
24 Andrew Steele [ad158@DAY27Series II or III frame dimension for snow plow
25 "Jurgen Klus" [PSJK@psy122 Beginners Confessions
26 "Russell G. Dushin" [dus49travelling Hess'
27 Roger Sinasohn [sinasohn38Re: Waving
28 Roger Sinasohn [sinasohn26Re: Broken swivel ball drain plug
29 Roger Sinasohn [sinasohn14Re: camel trophy vehicles, rochester carbs...
30 dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on16[not specified]


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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Smoky No Less(Well, a bit).
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 9:40:28 GMT

Well, *that* was almost a complete waste of time,though instructive.
Retarding the pump gave me a *lovely* smooth tickover,but a horribly
lumpy revving engine.In the event,the pump is slightly advanced from
where it was before,with a corresponding increase in engine freedom.
That is to say,it will rev a bit better.The smoke output is maybe a
bit less,too.I dont doubt that in the case I was told of,the remedy
worked,but I also suspect that I need a set of new/recon injectors,
and possibly a new drive gear for the distributor pump.Roll on Xmas!
I was also told,by an experienced diesel mechanic,of the method he
considers to be the best for injection timing,which he terms the
"Spill Method".It involves replacing no1 injector feed pipe by an
open ended dummy pipe.Said pipe to be cut off at an angle with the long
side underneath.The engine is then rotated to its timing marks,with
no1 valves fully closed.The pump body is then rotated until fuel
appears at the end of the pipe.
As for drivel,Craig,I'm well aware I siad comments etc welcome.
However,I did expect such comments to be constructive,or funny,or
both.That is,after all,a feature of this list.If you can come up with
a better method,which doesnt rely on the purchase of the dreaded
"Special Tool",then lets have it.And yes,I *had* noticed that the
timing mark is adjustable,but in any experimental process like this,
you alter *one* variable at a time.Its *my* engine,chum,and I'll
play with it how I like.AND be honest,in public,about the results.
So,that was a pleasantly warm afternoon (13 deg C,eat your heart
out Dixon),spent tinkering,with,I think,marginally successful results.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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Subject: please check To: address, submissions go to 'lro@team.net'...
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 04:57:56 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

------- Forwarded Message
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 22:59:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stuart H. Moore-Roanoke College" <SMOORE@ACC.ROANOKE.EDU>
Subject: RE: BMW Diesel?

Andrew Steele asked about the BMW diesel being used in Discovery's.  He is right. 
I read recently in a Discovery info book that it was indeed the 5-cylinder BMW
diesel (with turbo) that was used in the Camel trophy vehicles.  I think that is
the only disco that I would want.  The fuel economy would be considerably better
and the power would be comparable, plus you could run the air intake to the top
of the windshield and use it as sort of a submarine!  (That is, if you can
justify sinking 30K worth of beautiful machinery in mud and water!)  I have
talked to many mechanics, enthusiasts, and owners of the cars equiped with that
motor and everyone has said that is one of the best automotive diesels that has
ever been produced by anyone!  I just wish that a disco with that motor could be
purchased from the factory!  Oh well, maybe some day.  Off to work on the Rover.

                                                            Stuart Moore

------- End of Forwarded Message

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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: rambling incitement to festiv debate...
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 11:53:32 GMT

Steve,
You *do* realise,do you not,that your Range Rover is <gasp>
DANGEROUS?(See this weeks Sunday Times) Apparently,when the
vehicles hits the centre crash barrier on a motorway,it rears
up,*gains traction* off the girder,and *leaps* into the path
of oncoming HGV's.So one bloke wants Land Rover to road test the
old model,to establish this fact.(Fact?).Richard Branson,according
to this utter clot,has got the whole thing wrong when he declared
that he wouldnt have survived *his* crash in anything else,and
then bought dozens for his shuttle service.
So there you go.When the guy in a Land Rover overall knocks at your
door,and says,"Excuse me sir,is that your Range Rover,because if it
is,there this survey we're doing"you,ll be DEAD pleased,wont you?
I mean,its not *everyone* gets asked to drive the wrong way up the
M6,is it?
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 09:15:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Marc Kruithof <mkruitho@FLASH.LakeheadU.CA>
Subject: equipment

Can anyone what is the best tire chains to use for the off-road purposes
through mud and snow ? (the point where snow tires can't go)
Can someone tell me what pull would be suggested for a winch for use on a
series II 88 rover ?
What are the most cronic or worst problems for a series II 88 (1960's) and
if there are any possible correction to such problems.

Marc Kruithof
mkruitho@flash.lakeheadu.ca

Classic 4bys are the best !!

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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 09:26:55 -0500 (EST)
From: jan <jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: to subscribe...

 
 what's the address to send to to subscribe to this glorious group... 
i've met someone with a Series 1 who wants to join and bore you all silly 
with his excellent adventures but i've forgotten how to actually join the 
group...

 jan

 Assistive Technology Information		| "I'd love to stay here and
 University of Vermont 				| be normal... but it's just  
 (802) 656-5784					| so overrated."      - Blur

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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Attitudes/Festive Debate
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 15:00:37 GMT

Steve comments on Series/Later Creation attitudes.A young three
year old friend of mine(whose Gran drives a S111),is seriously
convinced that ALL Dicoveries come with a Black Labrador as
standard equipment.Land Rover take note?
As for FWHubs,they have been on my wish list since I had the beast.
BUT,which to go for?Fairey appear not to make them any longer,AVM
have reportedly gone all Genuine Parts and upmarket(pricewise).
And the ones sold by Paddock (the name eludes me) are not
recommmended by the local gurus.This may be,of course,because they
want to sell me a set of the ones *they* sell,which not only had I
never heard of,and cant remember the make,but also I *can* remember
a sharp intake of breath on being told the price.I mean,if I had
*that* sort of money to throw around,I'd have a 130 crew cab pickup,
and wouldnt *need* free wheel hubs.Since the things are going to
fail at some stage,I'd also need an outlet in the UK,for spares etc.
So,it would be interesting to hear what experiences folk have had
with what they've got.There is a certain feeling about that "they
dont make 'em like they used to",and that if you have an old pair
you're likely to be on to a better thing than buying new.
Unfortunately,the only decent secondhand pair I've ever seen for sale
had the wrong number of splines for my 11A:-(((.Great hefty things,they
were,requiring a spanner(Wrench,Bill)to operate them.
Another point of curiosity.Has anyone evr had a wheel clamp put on the
front wheel of a Land Rover,fitted with FWH? I just wondered if they
stuck out so far that it wasnt possible.In which case,a *dummy* pair
on the back as well........
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 10:06:14 -0500
From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg)
Subject: Re: RoverWorks Comments

My experiences differ.  Yes, I did wait for a longer period of time than I
was lead to expect.  I agree that it's often difficult to get Bill on the
phone.  However, when all was said and done, my Rover was delivered.  I'll
leave it to others more experienced than I to comment on the quality of the
work, but I'm happy.

Not disagreeing, just providing a contrasting experience;

JAB

>I've dealt with Roverworks for a number of years , and even worked in
>the shop briefly.  My experiences started off well, but have been going
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)]
>Michael Ramage
>1971 IIa 88
>1967 IIa 109 SW (Roverworks botch job)

==                                                                 ==
 Jeffrey A. Berg              Interactive Telecommunications Program
 Technical Administrator                         New York University
                          berg@acf2.nyu.edu
                          =================
               My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
          My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
                       Taste for the good life.
                      I can see it no other way.
                           --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)
==                                                                 ==

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Date: 28 Nov 94 10:41:31 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Series One Heaters; J.Craddock

Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> informed us:

  > Hold your breath,and *sit down*.OK?
  > John Craddock lists the item;
  > Heater Kit 1954-65   242.34 inc vat.

and venters@atm.ox.ac.uk (Peter Venters) added:

  > (...snip...snip...) I got mine for UKP40 second hand from John Craddocks.
  > I had previously had a round version, which cost more than
  > UKP100 new, and lasted for only 6 or 7 years before developing a terminal

John Craddock has a huge stockpile of used parts in a grimy industrial
building just to the right and behind his showrooms. On my way back from
the ARC Nat.Rally this year I stopped by there and picked up a 2nd hand
S.III heater which I hand-picked myself - plenty to choose from, he's got
loads of'em. No matter if they're from a RHD, you can convert them easily.
*But*, I'd be careful ordering a used unit from abroad - *most* of the
heater units I saw lying around there were, frankly, derelict junk and
not worth getting your hands filthy for even picking them up to look at them.
Mine was ok, and I brought them down to 15 BP after some haggling (no way
I'm gonna pay 40 Quid for a chunk of scrap metal...)

Always scavenging -

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 10:41:24 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Erratta

WRT the nautical banter on the list...I was working deep in the bilge of my
sailboat over the weekend; wooden hulled, it was built in Holland in '56.
The stuffing box (where the prop shaft passes through the hull for you
landlubbers) was a bugger to get out, especially in the cramped confines of
the engine box. "Say, that looks a lot like the hub nut diameter..." sez I.
 The Rover and the correct tool were but a few steps away.  Amazing...but
then in '56 they were building Rovers (or rather "Minerva's") in Holland as
CKD kits.

In other matters, Worldwide Brands has its headquarters in Belgium...I'll
see if I can get the address from my friend at RJR.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 10:23:18 -0600 (CST)
From: Ray Harder <ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Odd Chassis Numbers??

On Mon, 28 Nov 1994, Daryl Webb wrote:

> Lighten up dudes, the Land-Rovers know who the true believers are, and hey if
> lots of yuppies buy Disco's and Defenders and never take them off-road there
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> upgrade.  (and lots of competition for them from use leaf sprungers with
> bruised kidneys and skinny wallets :-)
  I am relying on this to happen (legal term = estoppel)..  I truly 
like the Series vehicles but part of that love is that they fit so well 
with my cheap personality  (hey, don't add up those Rovers North bills).  
If I afford a D90, I would jump, but waiting for 5-10 years is ok, too.
 
> Better get back to work > -- 
> lots of yuppies buy Disco's and Defenders and never take them off-road there
> will be lots of good second hand Landies in a few years time when it comes to
> upgrade.  (and lots of competition for them from use leaf sprungers with
  yeah...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Harder                 Columbia, Missouri   314-882-2000
 
         "...you are what you drive..."
 
- 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental)  - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project)
- 69 SIIa 88 (parts)                   - 87 RR      (wife's)
- 80 MGB                               - xx
---------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 12:23:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Mikes Smokey Habit....

Hmmmm.....I feel I should jump in here,having had *some* expirences with 
the Rover Diesel...all of them bad,I might add.....
The Pump should be timed correctly...this may or may not involve twisting 
it about.....
The series 3 uses a timing tool that replaces the pump on the 
engine...the crankshaft timing marks (14 or 16 degrees BTDC) are aligned 
and the tool is rotated to remove the backlash in the gears..the pointer 
on the tool is used as a reference and the bolt-on pointer on the engine 
is adjusted to it. ....The pump has a line scribed on the base flange (as 
if one can find it under all the oily dung..) and the pump is set so that 
the pointer on the engine is aligned with this line.
The whole purpose of this was to prevent pokey fingers from mucking with 
things that they don't understand.."We are *so* much smarter than you 
(You *did* buy this fool thing,after all...) that you must let us be the 
experts, and you *will* do it our WAY!"  hmmm. early BMW influence here?
What you want to do is set the timing corectly.....You can do this two 
ways..pull the pump...apply air pressure to #1 outlet and turn the pump 
until it locks up...with the inspection cover removed from the side,see 
if the "A" mark lines up with the end of the big snap-ring or the scribed 
line in the "window" of the inspection opening....this verifies that the 
start of injection actually corisponds with the primary marks on the pump 
internals...not always the case,I'm afraid.....the next step is to check 
the flange of the pump drive shaft for a mark or a line and see if it 
matches the line scribed on the mounting flange...*rarely* the case!!!!
You then take the timing tool...nobody seems to have one....and set the 
crank/cam/drive gear position as discribed above...offer up the pump 
"here Ya go,laddie!" and set pointer to the line on the base flange.....whew!

Steve's not factory recommended proceedure ....get the engine fully 
warm....stop engine....loosen 2 of the three mounting nuts....put socket 
wrench on the remaining nut...start engine..(climb under the vehicle to 
retrive the socket wrench that has *rattled* off the nut and fallen to 
the ground :-) ).....carefully loosen the last nut until the pump can be 
turned....and turn it until the smoke goes away.......It is said that you 
can loose a finger etc. if the pump desides to jam while you have your 
hand on it.....there is no reason for the pump to jam just because you 
happen to be turning it.....by the same though,it is possible to get 
burned if your house burns down and you are standing on the roof....so 
be careful in both cases..OK?...if this leads to the marks lining up at 
the low/no smoke point..great! if they don't line up?...smear some grease 
around and Ignore them!..OH yes....tighten the blasted nuts before you 
drive off!...please don't ask....It's *wildly* too embarassing......
BTW...there is an advance on the CAV pump..it's the roundish iron thing 
on the side of the body of the pump..normally nearest to #2 cyl.  It is a 
hydrulic advance and it is supplied with fuel pressureized by the transfer 
pump in the top of the whole injection pump shebang...as I've mentioned 
before, this is a rotary pump and the endfloat is controled by its contact 
with the end plate (the very top plate on the pump)...the plate is 
aluminum...it wears *very* quickly...the transfer pressure drops for 
any given RPM. You get less advance at any given RPM.....CAV offers a 
replacement end plate.."BI-Metal"...it has steel for a wear 
surface...every rover diesel should have this installed......

OOPS! there I go...rattling on..sorry

steve........

"HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..."

"NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon          Steven M. Denis
"        "-1957 107 Station Wagon          PO Box 61
"        "-1964 109 Pickup                 Erieville,New York USA
"        "_1967 109 NADA SW                13061

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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 19:15:35 GMT
From: venters@atm.ox.ac.uk (Peter Venters - Tel. [+44] (0)1865 272920)
Subject: Smoky diesels

Re: Mike Rooth (M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk) and smoky diesels (25 Nov 94): 

The Land-Rover 2.25 diesel drives the injection pump from the camshaft, which
is in turn chain driven from the crankshaft. In time the chain wears, so that
the point at which fuel is injected becomes delayed relative to where it's
supposed to happen. The result of this, in my experience, is lack of power and
considerable white smoke, especially when over-running. I imagine this is due
to there being insufficient time to burn all the injected fuel.

In order to correct this, the pump body must be rotated against the direction
of rotation of the drive shaft (this will still leave the valve timing
delayed). However, care must be taken in doing this, if the timing is advanced
even slightly beyond the nominal position, then excessive diesel knock will
occur, which can permanently damage the engine. 

Apparently real diesel experts can adjust the timing by ear, listening for the
optimum diesel note(!). However, for us mere mortals, and bearing in mind that
1 degree of engine timing corresponds to well under a millimetre at the pump
timing mark, the approved technique is to make use of the Land-Rover special
timing tool. Having removed the injection pump, the tool is inserted in its
place. The engine is set to the appropriate timing mark, and the ADJUSTABLE
pointer then set to match the mark on the tool (so the pointer position will
depend on the timing chain wear). The pump is then replaced and the timing mark
on the pump set to match that on the pointer.

When I did this, it hugely improved the performance of my then (ex-taxi) 2.25 
diesel, and got rid of the smoke, at the expense of some increase in noise. The
drawback is that the timing tool is a special L-R tool, costing (some 4 or 5
years ago) about UKP60+VAT - perhaps you can scrounge one from an appropriate
garage? 

Hope this helps,

Peter.

PS A friend of mine reckons that it's blue Land-Rovers which don't wave back :-)

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Subject: Re: equipment 
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 11:23:52 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <Pine.3.05.9411280958.A2412-9100000@flash.LakeheadU.Ca>you write:
 
> Can someone tell me what pull would be suggested for a winch for use on a
> series II 88 rover ?

	The rule of thumb is 2.5 times vehicle weight.  So for an 88 a winch
with a 8000 lb stall would be appropriate.

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications Internation Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 14:19:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Davis <robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com>
Subject: Trashing Rovers North/Roverworks

Well folks, I'm not one to chatter too much, but I would like to express
my response to those trashing firms like Rovers North.  Yes, parts are
more expensive here, particularly genuine parts.  I use genuine parts
90% of the time because I feel the genuine parts are the best that
money (yes, more of it) can buy.  However, I do buy parts from England
and it is not at all easy to import parts.  In fact it can be more
trouble than its worth.  Don't take my word for it try it yourself.
The once you've had the headakes you may want to reconsider and buy the 
more expensive parts from Rovers North.  I have never had a problem with 
getting help from them technically, which has a good will value.
Rovers North is a business, and the goal is to make money, but RN
helps a lot of people along the way.  They help me when no one else
can be bothered.
As for Roverworks, I've foundd Bill to be slow but honest.  He deals
with a high dollar wealthy group and doesn't usually have time for people 
who want to save money by obtaining a used frame or used parts.  He
is in business and if you don't put a deposit down on large items like
frames, how can you expect to have them when you need them.  If you
don't have more than $1000 to spend on deposit, then how can you expect 
to have Bill, the owner to stock a frame that you may or may not need,
depending on how much you happen to have or not have.  The business is
tough out there and I don't think that a disgrunteled customer should
trash good firms that supply a lot of owners and prespective owners
with parts and service.
Interested in maintaining the breed.
R&D

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From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: In-situ decoking
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 19:50:14 UNDEFINED

Motorbikes (and other petrol engines can be steam-decoked by spraying water 
into the carb throats.

Is there an equivalent process for deisels?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Easyouts
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 19:53:19 UNDEFINED

]The broken drain plug: ouch
 ] a tool for removing stuck things is an `eazy-out' (sp?)
  ]drill a hole, insert eazy-out, apply spanner, ...
  b]ut I don't fancy your chances of getting it out eazily -
  im]agine what force must have been used to shear one of those plugs off!

Beware of these. They are hard but brittle. If one breaks off, you are in 
deep, er, er, mud.....

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 15:01:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Davis <robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

This past Friday, Saturday & Sunday were spent on the road from Chesapeake
VA to Atlanta and back, but without that 109...
I got a call from John Door, who said that a 109 six cylinder european
station wagon may be available in the Marietta/Roswell area of Georgia.
I called Jack Walters, the local club president and got a rundown of a
"pristine" 109 5 door in perfect condition.  Jack said that vehicle 
won't last long at that price.  At last a perfect LWB station wagon.
No months, even years of rebuild/restoration just replace the blown
six cylinder, I have several, and its on the road.  I call the owner
who is not sure she wants to sell.  She describes the vehicle as in
"like new' condition with one small dent on the rear body and a tear
in one seat.  The paint was described as a little faded medium blue, 
in reality marine blue.  She described new tiers (Mich all terain) and
a Koneig rear power take off winch.  It almost sounded almost too good
to be true.  A pristine 109 SW, with new tiers and Koneig winch, WOW !!
All I have to do is replace the engine.  Jack said a 9 on a 10 scale WOW !!
Mine all mine I hope she calls me back and decides to sell it.  I wait
She decides to sell.  Like the sucker I am I make arrangements to use the 
trailer to hall it back and leave early Friday for the long long long
drive 12 hours by car, but I'm going to tow with my 109 2 door.  Friday
I make it to Aken, SC arriving at 8:30 p.m.  Stayed with Larry Zalantes,
another LR owner.  Saturday off to Atlanta.  The 109 2.25 is slow really 
slow going up the hills, but we're talking pristine station wagon here.
And a six cylinder here, all I have to do is replace the engine, winch, 
new tiers and now more slowing down to 30mph when towing an empty trailer,
20 when loaded.  All that power and only five more hours of driving until
I get there.  Called from Atlanta 40 minutes away - have directions and 
am running on anticipation.  Get there and am totally disapointed.  I 
kenw there was a difference of opinion when the owner said my 109 was in 
showroom condition, and it was compared to this vehicle.  Did I mention she
wanted $5,000.00  I asked if she would take offers and she said no.  She 
did offer me two tropical roofs in very poor condition for $350.00 and 
$250.00, which I refused.  I got back in the 109 and headed back for 
another 15 hours of driving (the rest of saturday and all day sunday).
30 hours behing the wheel, 30mph on steep up grades 10mpg.  Its all part 
of the fun.  For those of you with more money than sense, call Andree
Taerels at (404) 971-0263.  But it has new tiers and a winch she says.
The seats were town the interior poor, body full of odd dents with overall
condition good, engine blown - bad knock no oil pressure.  The vehicle is 
in fact a left hand drive 109 NADA station wagon, not the RHD european 
she described (not that it makes a lot of difference)... a winch and new 
tiers... You can buy a lot of winches and tiers for $5,000.00.
R&D
what a sucker
Anyone in England know of a 109 six cylinder IIA or series III or early
V8 around?  i have a friend in the Midlands who can supply a realistic 
factual accurate assessment of the value.  i need a more powerful tow vehicle
and will not perform an engine transplant on my 2 door 2.25.  After all 
it was described as in show room condition.  It is a good used vehicle, 
but not showroom.
Robert

------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 15:01:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Davis <robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

This past Friday, Saturday & Sunday were spent on the road from Chesapeake
VA to Atlanta and back, but without that 109...
I got a call from John Door, who said that a 109 six cylinder european
station wagon may be available in the Marietta/Roswell area of Georgia.
I called Jack Walters, the local club president and got a rundown of a
"pristine" 109 5 door in perfect condition.  Jack said that vehicle 
won't last long at that price.  At last a perfect LWB station wagon.
No months, even years of rebuild/restoration just replace the blown
six cylinder, I have several, and its on the road.  I call the owner
who is not sure she wants to sell.  She describes the vehicle as in
"like new' condition with one small dent on the rear body and a tear
in one seat.  The paint was described as a little faded medium blue, 
in reality marine blue.  She described new tiers (Mich all terain) and
a Koneig rear power take off winch.  It almost sounded almost too good
to be true.  A pristine 109 SW, with new tiers and Koneig winch, WOW !!
All I have to do is replace the engine.  Jack said a 9 on a 10 scale WOW !!
Mine all mine I hope she calls me back and decides to sell it.  I wait
She decides to sell.  Like the sucker I am I make arrangements to use the 
trailer to hall it back and leave early Friday for the long long long
drive 12 hours by car, but I'm going to tow with my 109 2 door.  Friday
I make it to Aken, SC arriving at 8:30 p.m.  Stayed with Larry Zalantes,
another LR owner.  Saturday off to Atlanta.  The 109 2.25 is slow really 
slow going up the hills, but we're talking pristine station wagon here.
And a six cylinder here, all I have to do is replace the engine, winch, 
new tiers and now more slowing down to 30mph when towing an empty trailer,
20 when loaded.  All that power and only five more hours of driving until
I get there.  Called from Atlanta 40 minutes away - have directions and 
am running on anticipation.  Get there and am totally disapointed.  I 
kenw there was a difference of opinion when the owner said my 109 was in 
showroom condition, and it was compared to this vehicle.  Did I mention she
wanted $5,000.00  I asked if she would take offers and she said no.  She 
did offer me two tropical roofs in very poor condition for $350.00 and 
$250.00, which I refused.  I got back in the 109 and headed back for 
another 15 hours of driving (the rest of saturday and all day sunday).
30 hours behing the wheel, 30mph on steep up grades 10mpg.  Its all part 
of the fun.  For those of you with more money than sense, call Andree
Taerels at (404) 971-0263.  But it has new tiers and a winch she says.
The seats were town the interior poor, body full of odd dents with overall
condition good, engine blown - bad knock no oil pressure.  The vehicle is 
in fact a left hand drive 109 NADA station wagon, not the RHD european 
she described (not that it makes a lot of difference)... a winch and new 
tiers... You can buy a lot of winches and tiers for $5,000.00.
R&D
what a sucker
Anyone in England know of a 109 six cylinder IIA or series III or early
V8 around?  i have a friend in the Midlands who can supply a realistic 
factual accurate assessment of the value.  i need a more powerful tow vehicle
and will not perform an engine transplant on my 2 door 2.25.  After all 
it was described as in show room condition.  It is a good used vehicle, 
but not showroom.
Robert

------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 20:12:24 GMT
From: venters@atm.ox.ac.uk (Peter Venters - Tel. [+44] (0)1865 272920)
Subject: smokey diesels

Re Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> and smokey diesels.

The L-R 2.25 diesels have an injection pump which is gear driven off the
camshaft, which in turn is chain driven off the crankshaft. In time, the chain
wears (hence the ratchet arrangement on the chain tensioner), so that the
rotation of the cam shaft (and the injection pump) lags further and further
behind that of the engine. The white smoke produced is, I imagine, due to the
fuel being injected too late to be fully combusted.

The solution is to ADVANCE the timing to compensate, ie make the injection
start earlier in the cycle, to match where it was originally supposed to be. To
do so, the body of the pump needs to be rotated against the direction of
rotation of the drive shaft. However, this must be done with considerable care,
as over advancing the timing will result in excessive diesel knock, and can
cause permanent damage - remember that the timing pointer by the injection pump
is not a fixed item! I have heard that real diesel experts can do the
adjustment just by listening to the engine noise, advancing the timing just
enough to get a crisp knock, and no more. For the rest of us, one is supposed
to do the job using the L-R special tool. With this you set the engine to the
appropriate mark, remove the injection pump, insert the special tool, take up
the slack, move the pointer to match the mark on the tool, and lock the
pointer. You then replace the pump, and set the mark on it to match the
pointer. Of course the special tool costs UKP60+VAT (4 or 5 years ago)...email
me if you want to borrow mine by post! 

When I fitted an ex-taxi 2.25, the timing chain was worn and it produced
considerable white smoke, especially when over-running, and demonstrated
impressive lack of power. Resetting the timing significantly improved
performance and eliminated the smoke, at some cost in increased knock, so it
really does make a difference!

On the subject of vacuum advances, although your injection pump does not have a
such a thing, some makes do, incorporating an obstruction in the inlet manifold
to generate some vacuum which is used to modify the fueling. As far as I
recall, the pump on the L-R  modifies the fueling with engine speed using
balance weights in much the same way as a petrol engine distributor. And
regarding Joe Lucas, you will probably find that your injection pump is made by
Joe's brother Derek Lucas, so best watch out! 

Peter.

PS A friend of mine thinks that blue Land-Rovers don't wave back.

------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 12:24:21 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199411252245.AA02071@interserv.com>you write:
> Has anyone got a "Rochester" Carb fitted to their Land Rover. After 
> Anyone know where to get a rebuild kit for the Carb ???
none

	I got a rebuild kit from NAPA autoparts a few years ago.  I don't
rememeber the part number off hand.  The Rochester gave me some extra 
horsepower at the expense of gas mileage.

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications Internation Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------
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Subject: Re: rambling incitement to festiv debate... 
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 12:31:01 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <9411251543.AA09573@methley2.hpl.hp.com>you write:
  
> Might I respectfully suggest a little festive debate on the old
> chestnuts of eg. hard v soft tops and FWH's in the run up to Xmas?

	I have a hard top on my SIII.  I like it for most uses.  For hot
climates I dislike it.  When I go off roading in the the desert, like
this weekend, one of the first things that I do is take the hardtop
off.  

	Now that I'm actually living in the desert (summer days around 110F)
I plan to get a soft top.  So that I can let the breeze in, but still have
some shade.

> In fact who actually drives their 4WD off road!  I do.

	I do.  As often as possible.  In fact I just got back from a 
weekend jaunt in the Salton Sea area of Southern California last night.

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications Internation Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------
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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: roadside emergency
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 17:01:41 EST

Roadside emergency question for yaz all......

John Hess and co. are en route to Northern Ca (not a bad place at all...) from
Maine in their new '68 109 Doormobile.  The rig is built on an x-military
chassis and (I think) has military rims.  One of these rims self destructed,
but he's got a spare-well, he *had* a spare, but now needs another.  He's got
the two piece rims (which now appear to be three piece rims but maybe were all
along) and needs to know asap what (if anything) he can use as a suitable
replacement, be it from a rover or not.  BTW, he's got 7.50 x 16's on them,
and the one on the self-destructing rim is fine.  

Also, might anyone know of a potential supplier of such a rim in the DC area,
plus or minus a few hours drive?

Got any ideas??

Thanks in advance,
rd/nige for John Hess and co. (now in Maryland).

------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 15:21:53 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: camel trophy vehicles, rochester carbs...

> After all, if there is a 
> Trophy vehicle in the States (post 1985) it is either on a one-year
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> in, but if you own a '91r, then you've already sorted that part out.
> - B
 
  Not true. Dom Diaz' Camel 110 is a legal US resident. It can be done.

R, bg

------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 19:53:39 -0500
From: Andrew Steele <ad158@DAYTON.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject: Series II or III frame dimension for snow plow

I know this is not a popular accessory, but I have the option to purchase a
western snow plow, elec hydraulic pump and frame mount from a friend selling
a 1950's something Chevy.

I want to put the snow plow on my Rover (here's where the problem begins) and
need to know if it's worth the bother to remove the plow attachment
bolted/rusted to the Chevy's frame.  Naturally, if the distance between the
front frame members is close, then I save $400 or so in buying the new
mounting hardware.

Problem - I don't yet have the Land Rover.  (Or even know where it is for that
matter)  Could someone please measure the distance between and including the
front frame rails for me?

Thanks very much,
Andrew
Dayton, OH
87 RR (not a plow type vehicle me thinks)
40 feet of driveway  (don't ask, its some sort of compulsion like having three
riding mower to do a city lot)

ad158@dayton.wright.edu

------------------------------
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From: "Jurgen Klus" <PSJK@psy1.ssn.flinders.edu.au>
Date:          Tue, 29 Nov 1994 11:24:02 GMT-0930
Subject:       Beginners Confessions

Peter,
Get a high lift jack!,, or an inflatible bull bag!
With the high lift, you will need special a attachment hook/chain 
assembly to make it useful on the Discovery bars. but be careful, the 
high lift is great, but by its design, completely unstable and very 
dangerous if not treated with respect and care.
The inflatible bag is also very good to lift the Disco up to pack 
under the wheels. However, unlike the High lift, you cant push the 
vehicle sideways.
When going off road, always lower the aerial (a bit late for that I 
guess), and fold in the mirrors against the window. If you need them 
to back out of somewhere, just fold them out temporarily. To protect 
against scratches, always apply a quality, thick, hard wax to the 
panels a week or so before going bush. Note: not a polish, but a wax.
regards,
Jurgen Klus    618 201 2413

------------------------------
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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: travelling Hess'
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 22:36:08 EST

The Hess family from Davis, far coast, dropped in last eve on their way
westward.  They're a delightful bunch having the time of their lives on 
their first Land Rover outing-a long one from Portland, near coast, on back 
to the other side.  For a decent price, and considerably less than 
advertised, they bought the right Rover for the job; a straight-up 2.6L 
6cyl. powered RHD 109 Martin Walters Doormobile on a solid military chassis 
in once restored and still lookin' really good condition.  They are tickled
pink with their purchase, and I was brit racing green with envy as I looked 
it over under the limelight.  I'd of stood in awe all evening, but a chill 
in the air that filled the back of the 109 drove us all inside.

There they found my rather (an understatement) spartan digs-the home where 
if you move from one room to another you have to bring your chair with you 
(Aye Dixon, is Normandy Crescent anything like this??).  Sorry to admit I
didn't treat them to a meal of moose 'n taters like they did for Ben Smith; 
in fact, we ate out, but we did feast on seasonal brews from both coasts 
for afters.  'Tis not something I normally do-pound a sixpack on a night 
before work, but I was challenged by the competition of John's wife, Kathy.  
No doubt about it, she's cut out for this rover stuff!

Come morning, we chowed cereal and oat meal, drank our respective 
caffeinated beverages, and got our acts together.  They laid a bottle of 
fine cab on me, so I reciprocated with twice the volume in needed 90wt and
motor oil.  We then quick fixed ("do it, Earl") a pesky leak from the top 
of the windscreen that dripped right on to John's throttle foot using 
string and a paper cup.  Manual dump model, this is, to be emptied at 
regular intervals of from three to ten minutes, depending on speed of 
travel and drive of rain.  I could see in their faces that another rover-
related revelation had just then come over them.......the realization that 
no problem too big or too small can be solved with a little creativity and 
an open mind.  What fun.

Nigel and I escorted the Hessmobile 109 through a downpour down the 
Pallisaides Parkway, Jersey-bound and beyond.  From my exit ramp, I caught 
the thumbs up beneath a foggy window flashed as they rolled on by, and 
gazed in admiration at the glory of the beast loaded full with the happy 
family of three.  Surely, they'll go *everywhere* in that thing.

cheers all,
rd/nigel

ps It still isn't too late to meet these folks on their trek-anyone in the
Texas-New Mexico-Arizona corridor want some rover visitors?

------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 21:32:10 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Waving

I'll wave at anything, but around here, Range Rovers are so plentiful with 
the overpaid yuppie crowd that I often don't wave at them unless they wave 
first.  Although, It's great to see the complete look of horror a couple of 
fancy-pants dressed up to go out on the town will get when I wave at them as 
if they were somehow related to me and my beast.  <g>

I also get bummed when driving a non-rover (yes, I admit it, I drive my 
girlfriend's mazda around too) and I wave at a Rover and they just act like 
I'm another non-rover-owning peon.  (If you see a weird looking guy in a blue 
mazda 323 with the plate "I TCH TAP", it's me.) 

As to RR vs LR, RR's are just as capable off-highway as a LR.  You trade 
luxury for repairability, IMO.  I don't mind hearing about RR's & Disco's.  
If I'm not interested, I just delete the message -- just as I do with a lot 
of the technical LR stuff that goes right over my head.  On the other hand, 
RR's are still LR's.  If you have to own a semi-normal vehicle, it might as 
well be a RR or Disco, eh?  If I could afford it, and really wanted a 
reliable, modern, vehicle, I would get a Disco in a minute.  I'd take the LR 
camping, but the Disco would get me to work.

Anyway, don't mind me.  My drugs are wearing off, and I feel like garbage 
again, so I'm babbling.  

P.S. if you think sorting through LR/RR/Disco messages is rough, try 
switching between LRO, HP3000, Powerhouse, Arima Laptop, Computer History, 
and Sinasohn family messages!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 21:32:14 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Broken swivel ball drain plug

>While crawling around underneath the Land Rover on a winterizing project 
>I discovered that the last so-called mechanic who changed the oil in the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>'72 Series III 88 since new
>75126.1123@compuserve.com

I dunno if this would work, but it's worth a try...  I would drill a small 
hole partway into the offending plug, then thread (tap?) it the *wrong* way 
-- that is, contrary to the plug thread.  Then, screw a bolt into it and keep 
turning after it goes in all the way, which will make the drain plug come 
out.  

Does that make sense?  That's what I'd do, anyway, but y'all know how good my 
mechanical skills are.  8^)   

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 21:32:46 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: camel trophy vehicles, rochester carbs...

Dom Dias has a camel trophy 110.  He had it at the Palo Alto British Car meet 
in Sept.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------
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Subject: Beginners Confessions
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 00:13:18 -0500

"Jurgen Klus" <PSJK@psy1.ssn.flinders.edu.au> writes:

> Get a high lift jack!,,

    Good Canadian product and invention... :-)

--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry,            |    Ottawa Valley Land Rovers
Nepean, Ontario, Canada       |    1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean
(OVLR's InterNet site)        |    Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4

------------------------------
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  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 

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