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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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1 dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Ke18Re: Bugeyes for breakfast
2 Paul Nash [paul@grimsel.39[not specified]
3 hiner@mail.utexas.edu (G15Re: Land Rover 24 Hours of Aspen ski endurance event
4 "Mr T.stevenson" [gbfv0836XCLs on Range Rovers
5 CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR 29Grilling out and others
6 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu14Re: XCLs on Range Rovers
7 mcdpw@pacific.pacific.ne19Re: Bugeyes for breakfast
8 Robert Davis [robdav@sun9Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
9 Robert Davis [robdav@sun9Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
10 dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Ke25Re: Bugeyes for breakfast
11 "Stefan R. Jacob" [1000420Re: Bugeyes.. Breakfasts grills
12 "Mugele, Gerry" [Gerry.M32Oops
13 "Russell G. Dushin" [dus74Nigel has a bed to sleep on
14 rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.48Bugeyes, rebuilds and such.
15 Brad Krohn [Brad_Krohn@c37Cold Weather help needed
16 "Stuart H. Moore-Roanoke69My Series II is alive!


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From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: Bugeyes for breakfast
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 09:31:24 -0500 (EST)

> Mugele, who recently joined the Rover-Net, has a 1972 Series III (probably 
> the nicest one I have ever seen) and his has a wire grille.  He bought it 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> learn.  It's a good part of what gives the lovable beasts such personality, 
> eh wot?

	Some trivia.  The metal grill on the late IIA is not the same as 
        the III, though from afar they look identical.  If you count the
	number of vertical holes in the grill one has ten, the other 
	twelve.

	

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Subject: Re: ITS ON THE ROAD AT LAST !!!!!!
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 09:19:15 +0200
From: Paul Nash <paul@grimsel.frcs.alt.za>

> that it stops blowing smoke, once the motor starts to settle in.  Any one 
> with experience with 2.25 diesels know about how many miles you have to 
> clock up before the motor is settled in?

I recently did a ring & stem-seal job on my sIII diesel, and it took about
30 or 40 km before it stopped playing smokescreen-smokescreen.  Now there's
just a puff of dirty smoke when I start, and black smoke when I accelerate
hard.  My guess is that one of my injectors needs a new tip :-)

> One thing worried me though, while I was driving up a hill, it all of a 
> sudden lost power, then stalled, for no reason.  I had the ignition 

Air-bubble in the diesel system maybe?  I had something similar on mine
when I put the head back on.

> I am also curious as to what sort of milage other people get out of 2.25 
> diesel Landies, as the only other person with one that I know gets about 
> 30MPG no matter what he does, towing a caravan, off roading, but he does 
> have an over drive.

I get between 10 and 11 l/100km (28-25 MPG (imperial)), depending on how 
I drive.  Relaxed driving on gravel gets around 10, burning it down the
highway at just-below-cutout-speed gets about 11, and a recent trip over
varied roads from SA via Zimbabwe & Mozambique to Malawi & Zambia, with
a longish detour through Botswana on the way back, gave me an average of
10,5.  The roads varied from highways where I was being passed by trucks
cruising at 140km/hr, down to the infamous Chobe sand road in Botswana
(4wd 2nd gear the whole way, all day) and a road near the Luangwa in
Zambia where I broke my front springs (100km in 8 hours, not including
time taken to patch the spring).

Diesels are great off-road -- no water problems, _bags_ of torque (I
ended up dragging a 15-ton 6-wheeler Nissan out of a ditch: just use
low range reverse).  They just aren't fast on the highway, especially
uphill with a load.

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 09:30:59 -0600
From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)
Subject: Re: Land Rover 24 Hours of Aspen ski endurance event

>I saw this in rec.sport.ski.crosscountry or something similar.  Is
>this a Land Rover sponsered event?  Anyone got any info on it?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>24 Hours of Aspen ski endurance event. The land Rover 24 hours of Aspen
>can be found at http://www.infosphere.com/aspen/sports/24 hours/index.html

The correct URL is
http://infosphere.com/aspen/sports/rogers/24hours/24hrindex.html

Greg

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From: "Mr T.stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: XCLs on Range Rovers
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 14:28:08 +0000 (GMT)

I am a new subscriber to the LRO digest; indeed I have only just found
out how to access the internet. I have owned various Land Rovers since I
learned to drive, ranging from a SIII 109 pickup (stolen from outside my
digs in London in 1983) to a SIIA 1/4 ton FFR and a SIII 109, both
ex-military Rovers. These last two were recently sold to help finance
the purchase of a 1990 Ninety DT. Apart from the culture shock on moving
from the Series Land Rovers, I am enjoying it immensely.
The main advantages are:
	Coil springs
	Fuel Economy (relative)
	I can hear what the wife is saying at speeds over 30 mph

Disadvantages:
	Worried about minor dents, scars etc.
	I know very little about diesel engines.
	I now have to listen to what the wife is saying.
If anyone has any advice on likely problem areas etc with this vehicle
then I would be grateful to hear it.

Regarding John Brabyn's question about fitment of Michelin XCLs to
Range Rovers, my brother acquired some 6.50x16 XCLs from an MOD auction
which he uses as green-roading tyres. They look a bit wierd on the Range
Rover, being so skinny, and they are very noisy on tarmac. However, they
certainly do the business off road.

Happy Land-Rovering!
-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(0475) 530581  Fax:(0475) 530601

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 10:38:30 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Grilling out and others

WRT the thread on grilles...I've got an early '72 Series III ...replaced
the plastic grill years ago.  Here's how: get (order, borrow, purloin) a
late IIa grill.  Fabricate two "J" clips for bottom supports (there's a
wide place on the breakfast frame/flange for this) and drill/tap the top of
the frame for a 1/4 X 20 truss head machine screw to secure the top of the
grill in place.   Paint the thread holess and use a stainless steel bolt
and rust is not a problem.  For added protection, I wired on some 1/4" rat
wire behind the 1" weft of the grill.  The last time I had some galvanizing
done, I had the whole thing hot dipped and it looks like it was made that way.

If you want to check it out (smooth segue, eh?), tune in tonight on The
Learning Channel...back to back episodes of Archaeology all night long
starting at 8 PM; the Rover features prominently in eight segments.  The
grill shows up best in the show about the Petra ruins.

And the word someone is looking for is "billy" - a cooking pot made from a
tin can - not "billabong" which is a temporary watercourse.
    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: XCLs on Range Rovers
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 16:20:55 GMT

Tom,
Welcome to the list!
Judging by your address,the most likely problem you will
encounter is chassis rust.Waxoyl,and plenty of it in that
sort of location would seem a good idea.Provided,of course
you havent already done it.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 08:42:54 -0800
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Re: Bugeyes for breakfast

Dixon writes:
>	Some trivia.  The metal grill on the late IIA is not the same as 
>        the III, though from afar they look identical.  If you count the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>	number of vertical holes in the grill one has ten, the other 
>	twelve.
Like I said, there's always something new to learn about Land-Rovers.  One 
of the things that keeps me interested.  Thanks for the tidbit!

And congratulations on your "Most *IMPOSING* Winch" award!  Having seen the 
picture, I know I'M *impressed*!
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ]
[ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ]

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 11:50:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Davis <robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

I am looking for a good used six cylinder 109 frame 2 or 5 door?
Anyone where one can be had?
The six cylinder frame is different from a four cylinder.
R&D

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 11:50:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Davis <robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

I am looking for a good used six cylinder 109 frame 2 or 5 door?
Anyone where one can be had?
The six cylinder frame is different from a four cylinder.
R&D

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From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: Bugeyes for breakfast
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 13:30:28 -0500 (EST)

> Like I said, there's always something new to learn about Land-Rovers.  One 
> of the things that keeps me interested.  Thanks for the tidbit!

	Didn't realise it myself until I was over at another OVLR member's
	place Wednesday (got out at 3am after draining the beer supply, 
	the 9am CANMET Industry & International Relations meeting was
	a joy Thursday morning...) and noticed a bunch or grills up 
	on top of a steel rack (Bob has bought & sold a lot of military
	Land Rovers) and saw that these two were different.  

> And congratulations on your "Most *IMPOSING* Winch" award!  Having seen the 
> picture, I know I'M *impressed*!

	Still waiting to see if they will be mailing to Canada.  Have not 
	seen any of this yet... :-(

	Rgds,

	Dixon

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Date: 18 Nov 94 13:37:41 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Bugeyes.. Breakfasts grills

Jeff Berg clarified:

> A Billabong is a stagnant backwater which is only full during the rainy
> ... snip ...

Oops, looks like I got something mixed up there when trying to recall
the lyrics of "Waltzing Matilda". The billabong is indeed the water
hole where the 'jolly swagman' was camping, and he was cooking his
coffee in his ... *billy*, that's the correct term (not far off, though).
So, it was the billy the troopers (supposedly) stood on their breakfast 
grills to boil water - which brings us back to Land Rovers <bg>.
( I say, 'Strain' *is* confusing ...)

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043,2400@CompuServe.com>

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From: "Mugele, Gerry" <Gerry.Mugele@wellsfargo.com>
Subject: Oops
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 14:12:00 PST

Granville said: <<Not all Series IIIs had plastic grilles.  Gerry Mugele has 
a 1972 Series III (probably the nicest one I have ever seen) and his has a 
wire grille.  He bought it from the original owner, a close friend, and so 
knows that the grille is original.  Interesting, huh?  >>

Well, thanks for the kind description but oops.  Not quite so.  It IS a 72 
Series III and it DOES have a non (wretched disgusting) plastic grill. 
 However, Bill Howell, the original owner was a long time L-R admirer.  Long 
before he bought the beast he had amassed an impressive collection of L-R 
parts including salvaged "wire" grills from behind the shop that housed the 
original west coast L-R dealer.
When he bought the 72 he had already straightened and repaired a full width 
(transitional) series IIa grill.  He manufactured two stainless steel clips 
for the bottom rest, attached the top with a repainted aluminum name plate 
and voila... a tasteful galvanized steel grill on a Series III.  He also did 
some other (more peculiar) things like installing an adjustable fuel gauge 
!(?).  This so that during the "energy crisis" he could show an empty tank, 
thus justifying an fill-up.

Also, regarding Bugeyes: my '69, manufactured 3/69 has series III type 
lights,  The one I looked to buy the month before, built 1/69, had the 
bugeyes.  I speculate that they changed over in the first quarter of 69.

Gerry

RM-**45  The Christian Right is neither.

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Nigel has a bed to sleep on
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 18:43:54 EST

About a month or so ago I had to spend a weekend with the li'l woman at the 
potential future in-laws place.  Rather than spend my time behind the Times 
and the Globe, in fear of being asked to participate in a million-plus piece 
jig saw puzzle adventure (which they do *without* looking at the picture 
because it's cheating, but it really doesn't help 'cause all the pieces are 
one of four possible colors anyway...), or worse yet, to play some word game 
I'm sure to loose at (and thereby look *really* stupid), I decided to bring 
along something to do and something to get others involved in.  So, I took 
Nigel with the intend of making him a bed to sleep on, so to speak.  Papi (my 
potential future kids potential future grandpa) has a woodshop so I knew he'd 
be up for the task.

The requirements for the bed were as follows:
1) it had to support two normal sized bodies in a fit of passion
2) it had to be easily dismantled and stored within the rover
3) it had to minimally obstruct access to the rear bed (Nigel is an 88) and to 
the sides within the rear
4) it had to be built in such a way that you couldn't open it from above-this 
would permit lockable storeage underneath providing the tailgate fixings were 
fitted with a padlock.  (Nige has a tailgate/hardtop setup.)
5) the rear seats had to be retained

Over breakfast we discussed the options.  By noon we had decided on a plan-a 
simple plan-and it works (although it hasn't been *fully* tested yet).  We 
built a frame comprised of three pieces of wood, one across the center 3/4 of 
the top back side of the rear bulkhead and two perpendicular pieces running 
more or less right over the edges of each wheelwell, then simply placed boards 
across it from left to right.  These boards are attached to the wood frame 
from underneath via turnbuckles, two for each board, one on each side.  The 
front section, once the rear of the passenger and central seat are dropped, 
just has boards going from the rear bulkhead to the top of the dash (sorry 
SIIIers, this won't do for you.)  Each board is cut to size, with room allowed 
on the sides for the rear seats, and in the front section for the vent control 
knob and the heater hoses, and the little nipple things (that fasten the tops 
of the seats in the upright position) in the rear (of this front section).  As 
for the frame, the two pieces that run from front to rear attach to the 
bulkhead piece with slot pin hinges, which can be easily detached with a punch 
(one more tool for the toolkit is required).  In the rear, these two pieces 
are supported by a notched piece of wood mounted vertically (within that nook 
around the tail lenses) and supported below by the wheel well.  Together, this 
vertical piece of wood and the front-to-rear chunk of frame are C-clamped to 
the bodywork protruding from the tailgate area.  (Papi, a naval architect by 
profession, says that "no experiment is complete without a C-clamp.")  The C-
clamp supports only lateral movement and is not at all burdened with having to 
support the weight of the bed, its occupants, nor the momentum they may 
inspire.

Down at the local hardware store, we bought ourselves about 12' of 3x6" and 
about 25' of 1x10", all in #2 pine, with the 1x10" cut into four four foot 
lengths (rear bed boards) and three three foot lenghts (front compartment 
boards) (note: this is all by ailing memory, so if you are contemplating 
building your own, measure first).  The 3x6s were stripped in half and used 
for the framing.  The 1x10s were each cut to size (side to side), and one had 
to be trimmed to about a 1x8.  We also picked up two split pin hinges, eight 
small turnbuckles, eight round eyelets, eight hooks, two C-clamps and two sets 
of small bolts with nuts and washers (to attach the frame to the bulkhead).  No 
drilling was required (a PO had already drilled into the bulkhead and we used 
the same holes).  Total cost was around $60 US.  Dissassembly takes about 3 
minutes, assembly about 5 minutes.

I do suppose Dale will be building one soon for his smokin' 88.  Should he and 
his date sink it up the doors in a swamp, they'll have a few more feet to go 
before the mud creeps in.  If it begins to list heavily to one side, 
well...she may slip right off into the muck 'n mire.  (Will he *ever* buy a 
top for that thing???)

cheers,
rd/nigel (if this rover is rockin', don't bother knockin')

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 17:17:14 MST
From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL )
Subject: Bugeyes, rebuilds and such.

Hey Gang!

The enigne is in and running.  Had to pay closer attention to 
the vavlves when installing the distributer drive.  Tried to
run it with timing off of the 1 cy in the exshaust cycle.  Of
course that don't work to well.  Otherwise running fine.  No
miles on iy yet.  The clutch packed it in while waiting for me
to get the engine back in.  Had to replace my line and adjust
all of the linkage and such.  Will be replacing the cross shaft
pins and trying to bleed the beast this weekend.  A bit of info
I am interested in is which slave cylinder needs the spacer under
it and how can you tell the difference?  Ok that was two questions.
On this 69, a bugeye-don't know production month, there is a spacer,
and no return spring. 

In trying to get the clutch working, I noticed 
that when I got pressure there was not enough movement to activate
the clutch.  So I checked the pins on the cross shaft, ok and there
seems to be about the required 7/16 slack on the forks before they
hit the pressure plate.  But a pin-hole leak in the line didn't help
get full pressure, so I am not sure what is happening until I get the
new line connected and all put back together.

Any tidbits of clutch trivia would be helpful. This was discussed once
very well, and so I am looking for info that may not have been gone
over.  If anybody want's a good insight to the workings of an armored
cav unit, pick-up the Clancy book Armored Cav.  Pretty right on but a
bit entry level in some respects.  But I like it for all the talk about
the 3rd Armored Cav Reg.  My unit in the Gulf.  I was just attached to
them for the road trip.  I think Sandy mentioned it to me.  If it wasn't
I apologize to who did.  I lost your note in my terminal and can't
recall, for my life, who mentioned it.

Ian, regarding Idiot procedures, do I have a wealth of material for a
chapter on engines, cooling system and clutch.  Just need to have a paid
vacation so I can get it written up.  I should recap for others.  I 
mentioned once, Ian seconded my suggestion, that somebody should write
a book for the Rover along the lines of the VW Complete Idiot Book.  So
I have been collecting bit from the net talk for my own personal idiot
book.  This recent rebuild sure has added a ton of information.

Roy - Rover in the Rockies - If you ain't Cav, you ain't.
                     Brave Rifles - Blood and Steel 

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 17:20:33 PST
From: Brad Krohn <Brad_Krohn@ccm2.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Cold Weather help needed

Text item: Text_1

Need a hand from the 'net in figuring out possible causes:

'69 IIA 88" with 2.25 petrol engine (Weber 34ICH carb, Lumenition unit, 
generator). Runs wonderfully when warm and in warm weather, but this is 
my first winter with it and it's nasty when cold. I don't know much at 
all about carbs, but am fine around the rest of the vehicle.

The problem is basically a form of hesitation. When very cold and 
starting on choke, the engine will roar-and-slow-and-roar-and-slow all 
on its own. Taking it off choke, the engine runs fine, although at a 
slowish idle. But if you try to drive off before the engine is FULLY 
warm (with or without choke on), the engine will hesitate during 
acceleration: usually right after shifting to the next higher gear, 
especially second and third. Doesn't die completely, just hesitates with 
the rare backfire. Once the engine is warm, she purrs. 

I've tried exhaust (fixed a front pipe leak), electrical (replaced a 
suspect battery ground), vacuum line (not a good connection at either 
end), carb intake (replaced aging/cracked hose - figured there might be 
condensation). 

I'm thinking it might have something to do with the accelerator pump - 
but I'm outta my league. Ideas? Help!

======================================================================= 
"ROVER? WHO DRIVES IT?"                     Brad_Krohn@ccm.hf.intel.com 
"That would be telling." -The Prisoner              '69 IIA 88" Bug-Eye 
=======================================================================

                                         

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 23:48:24 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stuart H. Moore-Roanoke College" <SMOORE@ACC.ROANOKE.EDU>
Subject: My Series II is alive!

      Hello to everyone!  Just wanted to send a little note to the group and say
that I got the '61 started the other day.  I had planned to begin its restoration
this past spring but I'm just now getting around to it.  Boy am I having a blast!

      The Rover had been sitting in a barn on my father's property for 9 years
without even being cranked.  I pulled it out with the tractor, gave a quick
visual check of the wiring to make sure there weren't any obvious shorts, hooked
a set of jumper cables to it, pulled the choke and hit the starter.  After a
little bit of cranking the oil pressure started to rise and I gave it a shot of
starting fluid.  A few more cranks and it fired!

      That was an exciting moment!  I only let it run for about 15 seconds...just
long enough to hear if a valve was stuck, but all sounded well.  After a long
sitting spell it sure sounded good.

      The next week's free moments were spent rebuilding the Rochester and fuel
pump and cleaning and refurbishing the fuel tank.  Four nights ago I cleaned the
plugs, poured in some new gas and started it again, this time with almost no
effort.  I warmed the motor and changed the oil then proceeded to take the floor
out of the interior.

      My next step is to rebuild the transmission.  This 88 spent most of its
life on a large farm where hired hands were less than gentle with its gearbox. 
First gear is likely missing some teeth and is unusable and reverse is not in
much better condition.  There is also a bad oil leak at the front of the tranny.

      Here are a couple of questions for the group:

1.    Who is the best source for transmission gears and seals, brake parts,
possible clutch parts, valve cover gasket and other gaskets and seals?  What is
the best way to get in touch with them?

2.    Does anyone have any experience with fitting rear power take-off or fairey
overdrive to the series II transmission?  Pointers or suggestions appreciated.

3.    Does anyone know where I could find a used fairey overdrive for sale?

4.    Any pointers or suggestions about a winch?  (I spend a lot of time working
on a farm and building houses so the power take-off and winch will get lots of
use)

Questions for later after I get it driveable:

5.    Does anyone know where I can find a used right front fender?  I only need
the outside piece.  Seems that the former owner had the right front wheel come
off at about 40 mph one day.  The fender and right rocker panel are pretty
crumpled.  Its fixeable, but only with lots of work with welder, hammers, and
body filler?

6.    Where is the best place to put a radio in a rover?  What about speakers?

I guess that is all of them for now.  Thanks for reading through all this.  If
any or all of these questions have been address by the group recently I
appologize for being redundant.  Since graduating in June, I haven't been able
to keep up with my mail like I should.  Thanks in advance for your help.  I am
really excited to finally be bringing the Rover back to life.  Plus it is a blast
to work on compared to the &*%$#@* Japanese things I have been working on lately! 
I will be checking my mail faithfully now that I am getting into the restoring
business.  Thanks again.

                                                      Stuart H. Moore

                                                      Roanoke College
                                                      Salem, Virginia

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