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From: "Barry Dudley" <DUDLEY@gate2.cc.unp.ac.za>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 10:02:47 +200
Subject: BUMPER IS NOW ON (SUMMARY OF ADVICE)

Hello All,

Thanx for the many replies, suggestions and hints concerning the
WATER BUMPER.
It is now on, and comments from FRIENDS range from: "It will be
nice when it is finished....; Going into the tree felling
business? OR Going into the pipe laying trade?

In order to keep the excellent approach angle, rather than
bolting it directly in front of the bumper mounting points, it
has been placed above this, with the lowest point being the top
of the bolts on the frame.  There are screw on ends, a filler tap
on the top at one end, a tyre valve at the other end, so air can
be pumped (for pressure) to generated a shower and the out flow
is in the middle at the back of the pipe (for protection). 

To summarise the collective net wisdom:

For your purposes?  Not much.  I have a Koenig pto winch on the
front of my 109 and it weight a couple hundred pounds (Dixon
Kenner). 

> With the water pipe would it be better to have screw on ends or
to weld it closed?  One end of the pipe welded shut,and the other
end removable so one can steam clean the inside from time to time
(Mike Rooth).

> Where would be the best place for the taps? 
For the spigots, I would worry about having the lower one out
underneath, near the end of the tube/bumper. More to the middle
would probably be safer. The central position would mean you
wouldnt have to make sure the Rover was parked tap side
downhill all the time(Michael Loiodice).

It would probably make more sense to store something you would
need infrequently - like engine or gear oil - than water.
Welding around zinc or galvanized steel is hazardous - zinc
vapours will give you "metal fume fever" as the old welders used
to call it.  If you do decide to weld galvanized steel, set of a
fan to blow the smoke away. MR ALEXANDER P GRICE

Many thanx again,

Barry Dudley

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: LR current cites
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 02:34:36 -0700 (MST)

Some of the latest...

"Land Rover"
SPORT-UTILITY VEHICLES, VANS & PICKUPS: 1995 BUYERS' GUIDE
(Sports mirror action series)
p. 26-27, 32

Ray Hutton
"Range Rover-- the message seems to be: don;t mess with a good thing"
CAR & DRIVER
vol. 40, no. 5 (Nov. 1994)
p. 79-80, 83

George Kacher
"Range Rover 4.6"
AUTOMOBILE
vol. 9, no. 8 (Nov. 1994)
p. 59

"Land Rover"
AUTOMOBILE
vol. 9, no. 8 (Nov. 1994)
p.53

T. F. Mills                                              tomills@du.edu
University of Denver Library  2150 E. Evans Ave.  Denver  CO 80208  USA

 

------------------------------

Subject: Re: cross country trip in rover 
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 18:07:14 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199411121917.AA13281@crl7.crl.com>you write:
> >>From perhaps uncle roger, jan fisk, ben smith, maloney and everyone else,
> >any suggestions for what to carry as far as tools and spares?  Any word
> >about a place called rovers west in tucson AZ?

Spare tire
Jack
Tools (wrenches, screwdrivers, sockets)
spare set of points and condenser (I've had the points go two or three times
   on me)
gear oil
I usually bring 7 quarts of oil, incase I need to replace the engine oil
   or air cleaner oil
rotor 
fan belt
brake fluid
a gallon of water
duct tape
Haynes or Factory work manuel
Phone numbers for parts stores.

        I tend to carry more than this, but I already have some excess parts.
these are the ones that I think are most critical.  I have had the fanbelt,
the rotor and points die on different trips and they are a lot easier to
fix if you have a spare with you.  If something catastrophic happens, more
likely than not its easier for RN, ABP, British Pacific or any other store
mail the parts to where you are.  Once you've had you Rover for a while,
you'll end up with more spares.  Spare axels are a good thing to have in
general, but you can probably get away with not having them on you first
road trip.

        hope it helpsts

Benjamin Smith
Science Applications International Corporation
bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
1972 SIII 88

------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 13 Nov 94 21:28:18 LCL
From: Joseph Broach <PC7170@UTKVM1.UTK.EDU>
Subject:      What is a bugeye?

     My apologies for wasting bandwidth if this is in the FAQ, but
What is a bugeye Landy? Just wondering...

                      -Rgds,
                       Joseph       '67 IIa 88......'Sidney'

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Waxoyl availability
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 9:27:21 EST

> Bob...
> I believe that Russell got his Waxoyl from Moss Motors.. 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
>                          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
>                          1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

Yup, that's where I got it.  Best call quick, 'cause last time this was
posted they nearly ran out.

thnks,
rd/nigel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 11:01:04 -0500
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: IBEX & Other Stuff

Re:  The question about the IBEX body for Ranger Rover Chassis & drivetrain-

I looked through the LRO back issues and couldn't find an article on the 
IBEX, although I thought I had seen one in the past.  What I did find on Pg. 
12 of the Oct. 92 issue was an article on the Dakar.  It's a fiberglass body 
with a full roll cage that bolts on a Range Rover frame and drivetrain.  The 
cost was L4500 and they estimated 100 man hours for installation.  You can 
use the original Rover V-8, but they also can accept a Chevy 5.7 litre and 
other powerplants.  The number is 0322 614044 (011 44 322 614044 from the 
US).  The finished product resembles a dune buggy on steroids and has very 
little front and rear overhang.  It's actually pretty neat looking and a 
worthwhile use for a Range Rover chassis :-).

Re: Russ Burns & Defender Hard Tops-

They should be in next month.  Initial installation by the dealer is expected 
to be 6 hours (wow!).  After the initial installation, it is said to take 60 
minutes to remove or replace (figure that one out).  An alternative would be 
to give Mark Letorney a call at Rovers North (802-879-0032) and get a REAL 90 
hard top (I believe he has some used in the barn).  You would have to remove 
the roll cage, however.

Re:  Men's Journal-

Thanks to whoever posted the initial note.  The off road article was very 
interesting with a couple of trails in Southern Vermont that I plan to try 
next summer.  Roy in the Rockies- you should check it out.  The trails out 
your way look fantastic (but you probably already know that).  It is a bit of 
a chuckle to see the Defender in a number of the shots.

The article detailing Tantra Techniques (used by NY Auto Show Disco driver 
Sting, among others) for enhancing The Wild Thing was also pretty amusing.  
Details are best left for another list.

Re: Joseph & Sidney's gearbox problem-

none
I had identified a low grating noise in neutral as the throw out
bearing. This morning, I stopped to tighten a sagging visor and when I
put it into first, I was met with a horrible noise as I took up drive. I
immediately stopped, as I was afraid I had run something dry. But, ah
pushing the clutch remedied the problem momentarily, so I believe it
must be the throw out bearing. 
none

Possibly a bearing but probably not the throw out bearing as it would probably 
become worse as you depressed the clutch.  My first suggestion would be to 
check the oil level in the main box, then drain it into a clean pan and see 
how much comes out.  Pour the contents carefully into another container and 
see what shows up in the bottom (check the drain plug too- you may find 
something just sitting in it).  Then fill it up and try again.  If you find 
particles in the pan but it seems quieter after you refill it, drive it a few 
hundred miles and change it again to get as many particle out as possible.  A 
worn tranny with good clean oil can last a while if not abused.

My own Rover Stuff-

I did an accurate reinactment of the Exxon Valdez disaster while changing the 
oil on my 88 yesterday, dumping most of the contents of the used oil 
container on the driveway.  I expect Greenpeace to arrive this morning.  

I also took photos of both Rovers.  The classic car insurance requires photos 
of all 4 sides when applying.  It should save me quite a bit next year on 
insurance charges $65 for both instead of $390 each.  If you don't put a lot 
of miles on your vehicle, it could really be worthwhile.

Bill

maloney@wings.attmail.com

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: IBEX & Other Stuff
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 12:00:22 EST

Bill Maloney writes:
> I also took photos of both Rovers.  The classic car insurance requires photos 
> of all 4 sides when applying.  It should save me quite a bit next year on 
> insurance charges $65 for both instead of $390 each.  If you don't put a lot 
> of miles on your vehicle, it could really be worthwhile.
none

Photos of all four sides, aye??  What if I tell them Nigel has six sides??!!
(And those are only if you don't count the small dents.)

.....I do wonder if there is any insurance agent blind enough to let me by....

rd/nigel

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: What is a bugeye?
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 12:08:27 -0500 (EST)

>      My apologies for wasting bandwidth if this is in the FAQ, but
> What is a bugeye Landy? Just wondering...

	A transitional IIA when the headlamps first moved out onto
	the wings.  Unlike later IIA's, or the III's which have the
	different front panel allowing the headlamp to be recessed,
	the "bugeye" used the standard panel with a large hole cut
	into it.  The headlamp stuck out in the same fashion that
	the headlamps stick out of the breakfast on earlier Land
	Rovers (early 80"s excepted)  (If you are ever in Ottawa,
	a good example is Yves Fortin's 88)

	Rgds,

	Dixon

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Deafender 90 
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 10:29:40 -0800
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

Russell asks,

> Any one heard any news on the hardtop. It seems the Net
> knows more than the dealer.
none
and Mr Baloney adds,
They should be in next month.  Initial installation by the dealer is expected 
to be 6 hours (wow!).  After the initial installation, it is said to take 60 
minutes to remove or replace (figure that one out).  An alternative would be 

Here's the latest hand job
	I talked the monkeys in charge of this fiasco on Thurs last week as the
tops were supposed to be released on Monday the 7th. Well the excuse was that the
units they have been testing had all been sent back for rework. The rework being
that the gasket material being used to seal between the top and the body of the 
truck was apparently compressing with time to the point that they were worried
about the fiberglass starting to chaff on the body. They thought that this would
cause some cracking of the gellcoat which would force them to replace the tops 
under warranty, perish the thought! They said if they could have been reasonably
sure of making it past the warrany period they would have said let em go, as it is
they are now testing a new, thicker seal on a couple more tops. This is about as 
ridiculous an excuse as they come, they've only been using fiberglass tops on jeeps
for what, 20 years or so, you'd think they would have this figured out by now. 
The new 7th or is it 8th, I've lost track, target date for release is Nov 28th, the 
monday after the Thanksgiving holiday.This would put them in the dealers hands the 
following week. Pricing has STILL not been finalized but they are hovering at $1500 
to the dealers which translates to $2000 to you and me.
	Don't worry, I'll keep you Defender owners informed. I've got a vested interest
in this as I'm still running around with just the stupid bimini tarp thing over my
head. During winter in Portland this has been good for more than a few funny looks
as people glance over during a downpour, and see me sitting there in my storm gear.
They just shake their heads, I just grit my teeth and recite mantras "The Hardtop is 
Coming.....The Hardtop is Coming.....The Hardtop IS Coming......"
				Rgds
				Mike Fredette (slightly soaked, in more ways than one)
				Defender 90  

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Deafender 90
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 10:38:54 PST

> and Mr Baloney adds,
> They should be in next month.  Initial installation by the dealer is expected 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> to be 6 hours (wow!).  After the initial installation, it is said to take 60 
> minutes to remove or replace (figure that one out).  An alternative would be 

The 5 hours is to remove the old full soft top....
                           
Russ

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Cheapo 90 chassis 
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 10:39:59 -0800
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

I posted this a couple weeks ago and nobody took a swing at answering it.
Is that because nobody knows, or is it because my supposition is correct,
That the new Land Rover frames are no more rust prone than the older Series
frames. Remember, you must have facts, not rumours, that the steel is somehow
now inferior to the older stuff. Come on, I'm sure somebody over in the UK
crowd can shed some definative factual light on the subject. Also the suspension
question remains unanswered....dig boys dig, enquiring minds want to know.
						Cheers
						Mike Fredette
Andy and others write:

//because there is no demand.And Dixon is right,I'm afraid.Given his
//conditions,and ours,the modern chassis just dont last as long.There
//is some *very* funny steel about.There are already articles on putting
//new rear ends on young 90 and 110 models.Not for nothing was the phrase
//"British Racing Rust"coined!If there are two things our climate is
//famous for its the ability to rust,and the incidence of arthritis.
/
/A freind of mine who was a Warden for Newborough Desert nature reserve took 
/his 90 on teh beach regularly as part of his job. The chassis fell in two in 
/teh middle inside a year!!!!!!!!! Not impressed.
/
/Having said that, My 90 is 10 years old, gets Waxoyled all over the outside of 
/teh chassis every year (takes about 15 minutes) adn all over the inside every 
/5 (no idea how long cos I get it done by someone with e HIGH pressure 
/injector...). There is NO rust on it other than a few superficial flakes - 
/even on teh outriggers. If you see some, you just spray a bit on from a plant 
/sprayer carried round for the purpose, adn bingo - no further problem.

My questions are these. First, is there anyone across the pond who KNOWS for
a fact, that the steel currently used in Land Rover frames is inferior to that
used in the older Series vehicles. And in what way is it inferior, ie what exactly
is it that makes it supposedly rust faster than the older stuff. It's still the
same gauge, ie just as thick, and with the wax injection now used, "should" I say
SHOULD last even longer than the old rigs. At this point, all I've heard is just rumour
and heresay that the British steel is not what it used to be. Perhaps someone
has a connection with a bloke at one of the steel mills who could tell us that, "yes
we have changed the alloy of the steel to an inferior grade that will rust faster
but what the hell, it costs us less to make."

OK, next question. Did the friend who regularly drove his Defender on the beach ever
take the time to clean it afterwards. I would venture to say that no vehicle, old Land
Rover, or new, can stand constant exposure to that kind of environment without some
corrosion problems. And if no preventive measures were taken, washing to remove the salt,
oiling to prevent further corrosion, then of course his frame would rust through. No rocket
science required.

Last question is regarding the Defender suspension. In the US, in order to evade an import
tarrif on import SUV's, Land Rover I HEARD had put heavier rear springs on the D90 to raise
the gross vehicle weight above the cutoff margin of 6000 pounds. I asked a few folks at the
dealer and Rover's North and they tentatively confirmed this saying this was the reason for
the stiffness and slight loss of articulation, and that the anti-sway bar had a negligable
effect. Ie; removing it would not improve the articulation much. I was told that if I put
on some "standard" rear coils, presto, a nice supple suspension would be mine. Well, I ordered
a set of "standard" springs, and started in, removing the left rear first. You can see where
this is going right? It was the same as the "standard" one I had standing by to replace it with.
And the funny thing is, Rover's North has a set of "heavy duty" coils listed below these
"standard" models. So, are the "standard" rear coils in the UK and elsewhere of a lighter spring 
rate than those used in the US? If so, what is the proper Land Rover part number to look for.
The ones listed here are NRC9448 and NRC9449 for "standard", NRC9462 and NRC9463 for "heavy
duty". The reason for all this blabbering is that on some trails, I'm lifting an axle where I
previously did not in my Series lll. Comments please.
								Rgds
								Mike Fredette
								94 Defender 90
------- End of Forwarded Message

------------------------------

From: "Mugele, Gerry" <Gerry.Mugele@wellsfargo.com>
Subject: Cindy & the Disco
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 11:41:00 PST

Sandy Grice said
<<a choice between Cindy Crawford and a new Land Rover.
(A picture of a new Discovery was flashed on the screen.)  13.4% chose
Cindy, while the Land Rover scored with 86.6%>>

I guess 13% on any group would make a foolish choice...  But the previous 
owner of my 88' responded to this bit of new with another query:  The L-R 
would be good for at least 20 years...I wonder would the answers would have 
been if the choice was 20 years w/ Cindy or 20 years with the Disco...
Interesting question.

Gerry

RM** - Fish are so difficult to toilet train

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 15:39:27 -0500
From: jspicer@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (Jane Spicer)
Subject: Subscribe

Subscribe

Jane Maclachlan Spicer (Jane.Spicer@jhuapl.edu)
Johns Hopkins University, Applied Physics Laboratory
Laurel, Maryland, USA   Voice: (301) 953-6225

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 13:18:30 PST
From: labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch)
Subject: Wanted: restorable LandRover IIA

Hey Folks,

I am looking for a restorable Land Rover Series IIA:

* Under $1000 (but will consider others)
* Either 88 or 109 (Prefer a 109)
* Hopefully within driving distance of the California Bay Area (something
	I could look at in a weekend)
* It would be great to find a '68 (when I was born) or 69' (when my
	wife was born)

Please help me appease this insatiable hunger to Rove!

Jason LaBranch
labranch@sybase.com
(510) 654-8299 HOME
(510) 922-4690 WORK

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 19:39:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: IBEX & Other Stuff

Bill's Rovers pose for the camera...
> I also took photos of both Rovers.  The classic car insurance requires
> photos 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> lot 
> of miles on your vehicle, it could really be worthwhile.

What... no scantilly clad babes in the back?

Classic insurance.. well, if it is like what I carry on the Triumph, it is
good for "club events, car shows and occasional Sunday drives". And you're
supposed to keep the car in a locked garage! What company did you go with,
Bill?? 

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)       
                         1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
                         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
 

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Dynomat
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 16:59:20 PST

> Do you have a address or phone # for Crutchfields?  I have been looking for
> this stuff with no luck
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> Thanks,
> Bob Cosentino,  WB6AGE@AOL.COM

Crutchfield
1 crutchfield park
Charlottesville
Virginia
22906
1-800-955-3000
Para Hispanhablantes
1-800-955-9039

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 19:03:05 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Land Rovers au naturel

Okay, it's not the May, 1988 issue of Playboy that featured a Land Rover as 
the centerfold.  (My source triple checked, and only found Denise Crosby 
(Tasha Yar of Star Trek) -- perhaps a worthwhile sight in its own right.)  
So, does anybody have a definite issue date?  Thanks in advance...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 19:03:21 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: tools, supplies and travel plans

John wrote...
[...]
>ignition parts: distributor cap, rotor, condenser, coil.
>do I really need a set of spark plug wires and new plugs?
>12 guage wire and wire nuts plus electrical tape.

Wouldn't hurt.  I don't know how standard LR plug wires are, but my brother's 
camaro (remember that?) caught on fire in the sierras (long story) and he was 
able to pick up a set at a store in Sonora.  I suspect that if you have a 
major engine fire, you'll probably have time to have them shipped overnight 
from RN or ABP or BP.  I wouldn't worry, unless you already have a spare set 
(they don't take up that much room) or the existing ones look bad or 
something.

>rebuild kits for brake and clutch master and slaves, wheel cylinder rebuild
>kit,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>points file, fine sandpaper, wire
>toothbrush, flashlight, large and small slotted and cross screwdrivers

Vise grips can be handy for just-wanna-get-home-and-out-of-the-rain repairs.
Also, some misc. lengths of hose/gas line type stuff, and hose clamps.  

>My comments
>1. I don't think anyone mentioned rear axle half shafts (axles?, axle
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>for breaking)  I don't want to carry the things with me, but would it be a
>good idea?  Could they be changed on the side of the road?

As I understand it, If your axles break, you may have screwed up your diff.  
Best thing is to remove the rear drive shaft, pull rear axles, engage 4wd, 
and drive home in front wheel drive.  Shouldn't be a problem, as long as 
you're not planning serious off-highway driving. 

>My comments
[...]
>4.  jack, lug wrench and jack stand.  I have to check on the jack and lug
>wrench (does the dormobile have these already?)  but I've used my socket
>wrench on the tiger.
>for breaking)  I don't want to carry the things with me, but would it be a

The rover has big nuts (no pun intended -- yeah, right).  I dunno if sockets 
work; I have a big truck-size four way tire wrench from Grand Auto.  Works 
for me, and fits behind the seats.  You'll probably need a bigger jack than 
you use for your tiger; best would probably be a high-lift or Jackall jack.  
 From what I've read, the Jackall is better, but they were more expensive in 
Canada than they are in England, and I haven't found an affordable source 
here in the states.  

>5.  sae and metric wrenches???  I was expecting to have to buy whitworth or
>something like that.  Does land rover actually use metric stuff?
>wrench on the tiger.
>for breaking)  I don't want to carry the things with me, but would it be a
I think that for on-the-road repairs, a couple of 7/16 & 1/2 inch wrenches 
should do it.  Anything more, and you'll be looking for a shop.  Of course, 
I'm looking for a mechanic if it's anything more serious than a flat tire...
>Thanks for reading this, more answers and advice always welcomed.
>My initial plans are Saturday--west out of maine, into nh to go to a quilt
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 29 lines)]
>University of Calif               Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu
>Davis, CA                         or leave me alone, your choice.

I would say pick up a Let's Go and/or Berkeley guide (Berkeley has LR owners 
working on their guides.)  these are guides targeted towards student 
travellers.  Great for travelling on a budget.  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

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