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From: Mr Ian Stuart <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 08:12:57 +0000
Subject: Re: Sad man Ian

> of anyone getting the Land Rover Owner early.No way.

I've subscribed to both, I'll let you know when LRO arrives.

(I know, I'm a sad man with no real intrests in life -- all I seem to
think about are LandRovers, Computers, Goblins (RPG, not vacuum
cleaners), my Hi-Fi and my wife. Please have pity on me :-) 

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
WWW sites: Work -- <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/>      
           Play -- <http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/>
#======================================================================#
I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek.   |Land Rover owners do
Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain.  |  it in the mud.

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 02:21:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Engine not running!

Roy...
I'll cast vote #3 for your plug wires reversed. You probably have #1 in the
right place but you've got the rotation reversed.
I did that on the Triumph about 20 years ago... Sat up all night trying to
figure out why the bugger only ran on 2 cylinders...   :)
Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)       

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Nov 94 10:28:15 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Washing lorries again (sorry)

Andy,

You build a solid case for maintaining the ecosystem...BUT

I don't see any pride in going around looking as dirty and as unkept as you can.
I let my 109 go as long as I do between washings because her paint is so bad 
that you would hardly notice, and there is no pavement where I live.  If you let
the dirt build up, your clothes would get dirty just coming in contact with the 
car.  I like to be able to climb in & out without having to change clothes thank
you.

I am actually near to doing another unspeakable thang to my beloved 109..paint 
her.  After my TR3 gets her new paint it will be the Land Rover's turn.  I'm 
thinking of a nice bronze green with limestone top and wheels.  Once she gets 
painted, she will recieve more regular washings and ....GASP waxings!!

I don't use my car like Dixon and the other people who want to see if their car 
will survive drowning and being bashed against obsticals.  Some times I have 
felt that I do not fit into this group because I am not constantly trying to 
find ways to see if I can break my Land Rover.  My Land Rover has served 
faithfully as my farm lorrie for 14 years.  Carying feed, livestock, manure, 
helping to string fence and other chores.  She is now a semi-retired pensioner. 
She gets used to carry the dog about, and on Land Rover camping/photography 
trips.  I try not to abuse her because I can't afford to have her broken at 14 
thousand feet in the White montain country, or in the desert, or on a lonely 
strech of the coast.  I want her to be able to bring me home.  I take less 
chances with her because she worked hard for me over the years and I don't want 
to hurt her.  She enjoys wading and climbing over hills, but we do it carefully.

I don't see anything wrong with not wanting my Land Rover to look like a slob. 
She has shown up to a number of meets over the years being the car with the 
worst paint there.  AT least she was clean.  Hopefully a year from now she will 
be clean and have nice paint.

My seat covers may be mostly duct tape over split nagrahyde, but at least I keep
it reasonably clean.  

I guess I'm paying her back for all the work she has done for me over the years.
I'm going to get around to installing a rear petrol tank and reinstalling the 
winch on the new bumper as thanks for getting me home from Portland with a 
broken layshaft and a nonfunctional chain tensioner caused by someone pouring 
dirt down her oil filler tube.

There has been a number of threads about Land Rovers as a possible "Babe" 
magnet.  Sorry guys, I don't know any women who would want to come into contact 
with a really dirty Land ROver unless she is dessed for the occasion and in a 
mood to get dirty.

Just one woman's view,

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
LINK: TWAKEMAN              
408-974-2344                         TR3A - TS75519L, 
                       MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Washing lorries again (sorry)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 09:17:11 UNDEFINED

Terriann says:-

>I am actually near to doing another unspeakable thang to my beloved 
109..paint >her.  After my TR3 gets her new paint it will be the Land Rover's 
turn.  I'm >thinking of a nice bronze green with limestone top and wheels.  
Once she gets >painted, she will recieve more regular washings and ....GASP 
waxings!!

You cruel adn heartless woman! How could you do such a thing to a Landrover 
that has served you so selflessly? I cant bear to read this.

>My seat covers may be mostly duct tape over split narahyde, but at least I 
 
No wonder Naugas are extinct. I didnt see a single one when I was out your 
way a few years back.

>There has been a number of threads about Land Rovers as a possible "Babe" 
>magnet.  Sorry guys, I don't know any women who would want to come into contact 
>with a really dirty Land ROver unless she is dessed for the occasion and in a 
>mood to get dirty.

I dont know any that want to come into contact with a cleean one :( Or maybe 
it's me, women have such strange tastes...........

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: Robert Meredith <robm@hpman010.uksr.hp.com>
Subject: painting landrovers
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 11:53:32 GMT

Folks,

Terri Anne mentioned repainting her landrover and I'm interested in doing 
this myself at some time in the next year. This is because it is presently
green and I'm hoping to travel in it to some countries where I gather green
landrovers might possibly be considered as being something military. So I'm
thinking about repainting it white. Any ideas on the best way to do this so
as not to replace a reasonable paint job with a crap one??!!!

I look forward to your ideas,

Cheers,

Rob Meredith.

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 1994 01:45:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Clutch/Gear Problem

Hal writes...

> I have a problem with my Clutch and/or gearbox.  I cannot put it in
> reverse unless I first put it in 3rd or 4th first.  If I don't do this 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> the clutch plate being worn down? Or possibly the slave fluid leaking?  It
> does leak and I have to keep it topped up all the time.

OK.. You say you do have a leak in the hydraulics.. So chances are very good
that you are not getting enough travel out of your slave cylinder to
disengage the clutch - and grind-grind-grind you go. At the very least, you
need to rebuild the master and/or the slave cylinder. For a bit more money
(and a better chance of long-term success) go for a new master & slave.
Order them from someplace in England. Even with air shipment, they will be
cheaper than buying just a slave cylinder from somewhere in the US. A word
of caution.. Use Castrol brake fluid ONLY!! Everyone has horror stories about
using the wrong kind of fluid and screwing up the seals.

Adjustments.. With a Ser III the only adjustments you have are on the master
cylinder. The important one is for the pushrod clearance. With the clutch
pedal all the way up you should have about 1/16" clearance between the
pushrod and the cylinder piston. There are two nuts on the pushrod, one on
either side of the top end of the clutch pedal. If you pull off the master
to rebuild or replace it, you'll be removing one of the nuts. Take note of
it's relative position and start from there for the adjustment when you
re-assemble it all. Oh yeah, the adjustment allows a secondary valve in the
cylinder to close properly - otherwise you would never be able to pump fluid
properly.

Worn parts - I think TeriAnne covered that well enough although I believe
she was referring to a IIa and not a III. The principals the same,
either way. When you pull your tranny to replace it or rebuild it take a
good look at the throwout lever and it's pivot points. I've heard the
pushrod from the slave can wear down (shorten) but I don't know how long
it's supposed to be.

> Also, does anybody have a spare SeriesIII gearbox or misc gears for one? I
> need to replace that gear with the broken tooth.

A couple of days ago, someone posted a message and said they had a Ser III
tranny for sale - $175 I think. But, of course I deleted the message so I
can't tell you who. Anyone know??

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)       

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 08:51:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Re: Flames for Ian Stuart & assorted BS

Actually,Roy,Bill M. must have 6 or 8 copies....those are the ones left 
over from when he wall papered his room...("Would you like to come up and 
see my etchings?.."
Ok I'll check and see if I can find it...I may just have the photo in 
question and not the mag.It's      ot   l k ge  a subscription...          
I *think* it was May of 1988....real sure it was may somthing......
I first saw this "artwork" at the ABP rally...A large group of guys were 
*carefully* examining the photo....several of the Rover widows came to 
peer over their sholders......they were really disgusted....the guys were 
ignoring the "neck-ed" lady and were checking out the ropes on the canvas 
roof....."So *that's* how they do that!" ...The ladies response?  "You 
guys are really *SICK*!" 

steve......

"HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..."

"NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon          Steven M. Denis
"        "-1957 107 Station Wagon          PO Box 61
"        "-1964 109 Pickup                 Erieville,New York USA
"        "_1967 109 NADA SW                13061

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: painting landrovers
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 14:08:43 GMT

Rob,
If you dont want to spend a fortune,I've found its eminently
possible to repaint a Land Rover with the common or garden
paintbrush.When I did mine,I used ICI Autogloss synthethic.
It would be untrue to say that the finish was as good as a
good spray merchant could get(At a good spray merchant's
price)but the finish is very acceptable,the paint is
wonderfully glossy,and you get *much* more on the vehicle
than you would spraying.Also,the brushes wash out in White
Spirit.Masking is rudimentary(Door handles,indicator and
side lights)and the rad grille and headlamp surrunds should be
removed.But you *do* need a warm,dry day,without wind,or 
suitable similar conditions indoors.
The danger comes from the female side who tend to use the
argument"If you've got time to paint the Land Rover what
about the bathroom/kitchen/perm any one out of five,that's
needed painting for one/two/n years".
TeriAnn,
So your seats are tired?Recover 'em.All you need is some
suitable vinyl,a sewing machine needle suitable for leather,
and a staple gun to fasten the covers on to the seat bases,which
are harder than Tank Armour and into which you just *cannot* drive
a nail.Well,not mine,you couldnt.If I can do it,I'm sure you can.
See OVLR for details:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: Washing lorries again (sorry)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 09:32:16 -0500 (EST)

> I am actually near to doing another unspeakable thang to my beloved 109..paint 
> her.  After my TR3 gets her new paint it will be the Land Rover's turn.  I'm 
> thinking of a nice bronze green with limestone top and wheels.  Once she gets 
> painted, she will recieve more regular washings and ....GASP waxings!!

	I don't know about the waxings, unless it is the frame, but the
	earth pig is going to undergo the brush treatment.  Two cans of 
	bronze green paint await it when everything else is all finished
	mechanically in the restoration (though not to factory spec.  This
	one has a modified front end to hold both a Koenig and a log
	splitter, the log splitter mounted like a giant ram off the
	front)

> I don't use my car like Dixon and the other people who want to see if their car 
> will survive drowning and being bashed against obsticals.  Some times I have 
> felt that I do not fit into this group because I am not constantly trying to 
> find ways to see if I can break my Land Rover.  

	Only one of them.  When the 88 is all finished it will probably
	become the designated forest runner.  The 109 will undergo some
	tlc and may <gasp> even begin to resemble Bill's 109 as it slowly
	turns into the long range travelling vehicle that I would like
	to make out of it.

> I don't see anything wrong with not wanting my Land Rover to look like a slob. 
> She has shown up to a number of meets over the years being the car with the 
> worst paint there.  AT least she was clean.  Hopefully a year from now she will 
> be clean and have nice paint.

	We may disagree slightly over the outward appearance, but the 
	underside is always kept very clean.  After you have been pricing
	frames for a while, you quickly see the advantages to keeping 
	the one you have in good shape.

> There has been a number of threads about Land Rovers as a possible "Babe" 
> magnet.  Sorry guys, I don't know any women who would want to come into 
> contact with a really dirty Land ROver unless she is dessed for the 
> occasion and in a mood to get dirty.

	Oh! Oh!  Another illusion going down the tubes!  Dale, get out
	the rake.  Time to empty the Rover of all the tamarac needles and 
	maple leaves, other wise you may be heading for a repeat of that
	other adventure you have with a previous friend.

	Rgds,

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: Fuel Thoughts
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 09:46:47 -0500 (EST)

> The recent thread on fuel prices worldwide prompted the following.
> Its ELF fuel,French firm I think,and was adverised as reduced odour
> (SMELL,Maloney,means it dont pong),reduced emissions,more MPG etc.

	You have to be careful with Bill Mike.  You never know how those
	New Jersey types may have begun the slow destruction of the
	English language as we know it...  :-)  Of course, I always
	expected that French fuel would have a different smell to
	it.  Probably dumping their perfume lake into it.

> Hasa anyone else had any odd experiences with modern so called 
> hi-tech fuels?

	The Federal government over here has decided that tha lead replacement
	additive MMT is not very healthy for us.  Thus the Deputy Prime
	Minister has asked the oil companies to consider removing it 
	(adding if they didn't they would pass a regulation to the same 
	affect).  Those of us without hardened seats (The Series I's
	had harder seats for the rotten pool petrol you had over there)
	in teh IIA's et cetera may begin to have a problem in the long term
	if this nonesense goes through (of course, there are a lot of other
	additives in Canadian gasoline that the American EPA doesn't like
	for some reason.

	Rgds,

	Dixon

	PS.  Not healthy you ask?  It seems that not healthy applies to
  	     our wallets.  The Automakers are behind this, claiming that MMT
	     ruins their sensors for their computerised plastic pieces
	     modern art <ahem> that they wish to foist upon us, and causes
	     higher than normal warrantee repairs.  They have told the
	     government that if MMT is not removed, they will increase 
	     the price of the average car by CDN$3,000 to cover the 
	     damage they claim MMT causes.  The oil industry is not
 	     impressed with this as you could imagine.

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: Washing a LR?
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 09:50:31 -0500 (EST)

> /        Clean the frame thoroughly after every mud run.  Use a 
> /        pressure washer on the frame if you have one.  Leaving mud and dirt
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> Be very careful where you aim pressure washers. They can blast water past 
> seals into places it really shouldnt be...........

	The only vulnerable seals I can think of are inside the drums.
	The frame is the part that needs to be cleaned the most.  The rest
	is almost secondary, unless it is post mud run and the drums
	are packed with the finest potting soil, quickly mixing with
	powdered brake shoe as they happily meet and mix.
	
	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 09:35:35 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: To wash or not to wash

Got October's LRO on Saturday and got November's on Monday, the 31st! Anazing.

WRT the wash question, I actually *waxed* my Rover - once (prior to a
British car show).  Then I made the mistake of following Diesel Bob on a
mad dash up I-95.   His modern, automatic chasis lubricator (actually an
aging 2.25 diesel) spewed enough oil to coat my Rover and the following
three vehicles!  While oil spots on the rear door are nothing new, it is
unusual to have them on the front bumper!  BTW, Bob is now back at work
(UPS delivery driver).  He has been out of work seven months;  when you're
45 and break a leg in four places, it takes a while to heal.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Subject: wanted Range Rover bits (in UK)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 10:20:10 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

If you know of or run across the following let me know,

 (1) high back front seats

 (2) section of the rear aluminium floor  (I've got a corroded strip
     across the center, so I need something like 8 to 12" to over lap
     that and rivit it together) -   It doesn't need to be one piece the
     width of the floor, but I need to cover the width of the floor.

  Those are the priorities, of course, if I heard of a used bull-bar or
  other trimmings, I probably would be interested...  [Nothing too pricy
  I don't want to spend more for what is _on_ the vehicle than I did
  _for_ the vehicle ! (I was sternly warned to watch my pennies by the
  Yorkshire lads when I bought it.)]

 -B

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Washing lorries again (sorry)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 10:30:03 EST

TeriAnn writes:

> Andy,
> You build a solid case for maintaining the ecosystem...BUT
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> I am actually near to doing another unspeakable thang to my beloved 109..paint 
> her.
snip

etc.

Are you sure it wasn't you that placed that personal ad in NZ??  And,
is there any way we can get Nigel to meet with your lassie of a 109?
She sure sounds like someone he'd like to meet.

> There has been a number of threads about Land Rovers as a possible "Babe" 
> magnet.  Sorry guys, I don't know any women who would want to come into contact 
> with a really dirty Land ROver unless she is dessed for the occasion and in a 
> mood to get dirty.

I do.  C'mon, even Brooke Shields was attracted to Nigel (or maybe it was
his driver.....naw).  (She was wearing spiffy duds at the time, and yes,
she did not want to climb in.)

On the flip side of this coin........is your 109 a "Hunk" magnet??  If
not, then maybe you just keep it too clean!

cheers,
rd/nigel (he's getting waxoyled this weekend, but it rained last week
so his upside-out is clean.)

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: painting the pig??
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 10:45:39 EST

Dixon admits:

>       I don't know about the waxings, unless it is the frame, but the
>       earth pig is going to undergo the brush treatment.  Two cans of
>       bronze green paint await it when everything else is all finished
>       mechanically in the restoration (though not to factory spec.  This

MY GOD!  The guy goes off and gets hooked on a woman, and the next thing
you know he's *painting* "that little earth pig thing".

What HAS gotten into you, Dixon???

Will you be buying a 90 next???  

ugh, another one bites the dust,
rd/nigel

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 08:38:20 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: New Explorers aka 110-o-rama

>Last night (Sunday) on channel 9, 9p.m.(PST) the New Explorers show
>that netters had been raving about was on.  Following the adventures
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>Berkeley, CA
>'69 88" IIA

Can you uuencode it and post it to the list?  <g>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 08:38:45 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: LRO Arrives

My October LRO finally got here on Tuesday, 1 *Nov*.  I wonder if the 
November issue will make it here this year...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

From: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com <John_Hong@3mail.3Com.COM>
Date:  4 Nov 94  8:58:55 EDT
Subject: Sure he has one, but pristine - NO WAY!

 Steven M Denis  <denis@ONNET OFFNET ONNET.PINGPONG.EDU>  Writes:

>Umm Bill? *I* happen to have a pristine copy of that ummmm "periodical" 
>with the 88 soft top...(looks quite firm,actually..... 8-} )
assorted disclaimers/apologies snipped.
>steve..........

Mr Denis, I do not question your ownership of the aforementioned periodical.  I 
do find it very very difficult to believe that its condition could in anyway be 
described as pristine.

Having properly buttered you up, would you at some point be willing to 
post/send me the date of issue so I might pop down to the local "research 
library" and browse for myself.

On a more useful note,  I've ordered a handful of items from British Pacific 
and been pretty happy with their service and prices.  (800-554-4133 orders, 818 
8418945 other,  818 841 3825 fax)

I am in the market for a quarter cab and they're doing a good job looking for 
one for me.   It is starting to get a little cold in the bay area - people are 
starting to stare at me cruising around roofless - especially early morning and 
at night.  

Well, this weekend's maintenance duties included new brakes all around, 
lubrication check, rear hub seal leak fix, and maybe a new seat base for the 
driver's seat, check out an errant fuel gauge sender and maybe a clutch 
bleed.    This past week's postings on the subject were very helpful.

john

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 12:46:57 -0500
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: Women Who Like to Get Dirty

TerriAnn Writes:

> There has been a number of threads about Land Rovers as a possible "Babe" 
> magnet.  Sorry guys, I don't know any women who would want to come into 
> contact with a really dirty Land ROver unless she is dessed for the 
> occasion...

Hmmmm... what kind of attire do these women usually don?

> ...and in a mood to get dirty.

There are occasions when a woman in a mood to do something dirty can be a 
rather attractive proposition.

TerriAnn, where can we find such women???  Steve and Mike L. and Jon and Ben 
S. and I want to know!  (As for Dixon, Russel, and Sandy, their lives are 
over.  As for Mike Rooth, he's, well, er, English).

More baloney from Maloney

maloney@wings.attmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 08:50:36 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: painting landrovers

In message <9411041408.AA26363@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mike Rooth writes:

> TeriAnn,
> So your seats are tired?Recover 'em.All you need is some
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> Cheers
> Mike Rooth

Mike I have considered that, along withredoing the inside door panels.  However 
I have not yet found a source for the proper "rhino hyde" gray upholstry.  Ive 
seen some done in gray pebbled nagrahyde but it doesn't look right.  I have 
tried several companys that specialize in vintage cars, including British but 
have come up empty.

I'm trying not to go to the later black but I may not have a choice.

Got and sources of original gray material?

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
LINK: TWAKEMAN              
408-974-2344                         TR3A - TS75519L, 
                       MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: painting the pig??
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 12:11:17 -0500 (EST)

> MY GOD!  The guy goes off and gets hooked on a woman, and the next thing
> you know he's *painting* "that little earth pig thing".

	I don't know about the United States, but up here if our
	friendly constable sees a five colour Land Rover, the
	quick trip to an immediate road-side safety check follows.
	The paint job is just to keep unnecessary hassles away.
	Besides, how long can it last when it hits the woods.

> What HAS gotten into you, Dixon???

	Nothing this time... :-)

> Will you be buying a 90 next???  

	In about five to ten years when the price comes waaay down.
	Of course, I only want the bottom bits, frame, drive train,
	sprinsg et cetera to play with... :-)

> ugh, another one bites the dust,

	Bite your tongue.  Not a chance.  Keep up such lies and
	Gretchen, the rotting BMW will be next years candidate
	for the SAAB pull, that is if you don't chicken out and
	leave poor neglected Nige at home.  I may be beginning to
	think that you are an unfit parent to Nige...   

		Rgds,

	

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: Women Who Like to Get Dirty
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 12:19:42 -0500 (EST)

> There are occasions when a woman in a mood to do something dirty can be a 
> rather attractive proposition.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> S. and I want to know!  (As for Dixon, Russel, and Sandy, their lives are 
> over.  As for Mike Rooth, he's, well, er, English).

	Over eh...  Like, who was the babe that has answered the phone
	a couple of times that I have rung you down there in LR-less
	land eh?  Methinks Russell and I will have to attend to this
	affront at some unspecified time in the future.  As for Mike,
	he shall be sending over perfumed fuel for your land rover
	collection so you too will smell like a poofter...

	Hurumph, dirty LR's should attract dirty women and that in itself
	sounds like a great idea...  :-)

------------------------------

From: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com <John_Hong@3mail.3Com.COM>
Date:  4 Nov 94  9:29:39 EDT
Subject: Sure he has one, but pristine - NO WAY!

 Steven M Denis  <denis@ONNET OFFNET ONNET.PINGPONG.EDU>  Writes:

>Umm Bill? *I* happen to have a pristine copy of that ummmm "periodical" 
>with the 88 soft top...(looks quite firm,actually..... 8-} )
assorted disclaimers/apologies snipped.
>steve..........

Mr Denis, I do not question your ownership of the aforementioned periodical.  I 
do find it very very difficult to believe that its condition could in anyway be 
described as pristine.

Having properly buttered you up, would you at some point be willing to 
post/send me the date of issue so I might pop down to the local "research 
library" and browse for myself.

On a more useful note,  I've ordered a handful of items from British Pacific 
and been pretty happy with their service and prices.  (800-554-4133 orders, 818 
8418945 other,  818 841 3825 fax)

I am in the market for a quarter cab and they're doing a good job looking for 
one for me.   It is starting to get a little cold in the bay area - people are 
starting to stare at me cruising around roofless - especially early morning and 
at night.  

Well, this weekend's maintenance duties included new brakes all around, 
lubrication check, rear hub seal leak fix, and maybe a new seat base for the 
driver's seat, check out an errant fuel gauge sender and maybe a clutch 
bleed.    This past week's postings on the subject were very helpful.

john

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 13:45:41 -0500
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: Women Who Like to Get Dirty

TerriAnn Writes:

> There has been a number of threads about Land Rovers as a possible "Babe" 
> magnet.  Sorry guys, I don't know any women who would want to come into 
> contact with a really dirty Land ROver unless she is dessed for the 
> occasion...

Hmmmm... what kind of attire do these women usually don?

> ...and in a mood to get dirty.

There are occasions when a woman in a mood to do something dirty can be a 
rather attractive proposition.

TerriAnn, where can we find such women???  Steve and Mike L. and Jon and Ben 
S. and I want to know!  (As for Dixon, Russel, and Sandy, their lives are 
over.  As for Mike Rooth, he's, well, er, English).

More baloney from Maloney

maloney@wings.attmail.com

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 16:08:06 +0000
Subject: SLROC event

I guess this is of primary interest to the UK folk (unless anyones 
planning a holiday soon)

On Sunday 13th (weekend after next), the SLROC is having an RTV trial just 
outside Edinburgh.

If anyone is interested, contact Alex Lindsay on 0506 854827 (10am to 6pm 
GMT, Mon-Sat)

You don't need to take part, just come and meet some more loonies :-)

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
WWW sites: Work -- <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/>      
           Play -- <http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/>
#======================================================================#
I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek.   |Land Rover owners do
Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain.  |  it in the mud.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 10:19:18 -0800
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: Re: painting landrovers

>Terri Anne mentioned repainting her landrover and I'm interested in doing
>this myself at some time in the next year. This is because it is presently
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>thinking about repainting it white. Any ideas on the best way to do this so
>as not to replace a reasonable paint job with a crap one??!!!

When I did my frame-yp, I redid the paint. At tisk of alienating myself
from the brush-crowd, I'll describe some of my method (note: I had never
painted a vehicle before, but had some advice from a friend who did
bodybwork).

1. I took apart all the body panels... so as to get paint in all the nooks
and crannies. So, for example, I unbolted the 3 parts of the wings, etc.

2. I sanded most everything down to bare metal.

3. spent several days taping-off things like galvanised trim (in the few
places I had not disassembled stuff)

3. After cleaning with some chemical (and wiping down with a tack cloth), I
primed everything

4. I then painted everything (I think I sanded all the primed surfaces
again... with a very fine paper, and went over it with the tackstrip again)
with a spray gun (which I had borrowed), using some standard PPG car paint
(I had chosen a Volvo blue-green color I liked... This was too early for me
to know I should have picked a BMW colour ;)

I also suppose I'll have to stay out of " countries where I gather green
landrovers might possibly be considered as being something military." Oops

5. Saw the paint bubble in a few places where I had not gone down to bare
metal (some reaction with the one of the layers of the old paint).

6 went back to step 1 on the messed up pieces and really went down to bare
metal this time.

5. Gave is a second coat

note: I left the original limestone top paint. Also, my doortops were
actually new, so I didn't have to sand/strip them.

I also covered the undersides of every body piece with undercoating (one of
the more plsaticky ones.. as opposed to the tar ones). Then did that again,
then again (I went through a lot on undercoat). This was both for
protection on the metal/underside, and also for (probably pointlessly)
sound insulation.

After doing the paint job, the rover looked nice (even I thought it was a
bit too nice!) In the frst week, I got 3 actual unsolicited offers to buy
it (one guy offered US$8K on the spot). YMMV.

-jory

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 10:19:40 -0800
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: Re: Women Who Like to Get Dirty

>TerriAnn Writes:
>> There has been a number of threads about Land Rovers as a possible "Babe"
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>> occasion...
>Hmmmm... what kind of attire do these women usually don?

Excerpted from a recent discussion in which I was engaged on in a different
forum [the topic was mostly butch vs. femme, gender constructions, etc]

===(was it butch of me to remove the exhaust manifold from my car's engine?  or
===did I spoil the effect by doing it in high heels and stockings?)

>> ...and in a mood to get dirty.
>There are occasions when a woman in a mood to do something dirty can be a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>S. and I want to know!  (As for Dixon, Russel, and Sandy, their lives are
>over.  As for Mike Rooth, he's, well, er, English).

I'd say that a lot of the sexism (and I mean this in the nicest way ;)
displayed in some of the posts I've seen here is exactly the type of
lug-headed behaviour which would repulse a woman who had managed to
overcome the limited gender/sex constructions of our societies [and who
might be the kind of woman to appreciate  a rover... whether dressed in
high heels/stockings or a mechanic's coveralls.]

Again, YMMV

-jory

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 14:20:08 -0500
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: Re: Women WhoLike to Get Dirty

Dixon Scribe:

>       As for Mike,
>	he shall be sending over perfumed fuel for your land rover
>	collection so you too will smell like a poofter...

Careful Dixon, them's fightin' words.  Sparky may ship his oil burner across 
the pond, back it up to your abode, stomp on the accelerator, and huff and 
puff and burn your house down! :-D (wouldn't THAT be a sight)

Another slice from baloney

maloney@wings.attmail.com

(Hmmm, Mike... a "poofter"... I'm still trying to picture it... unless you 
mean the kind of poofing that went on in the tents outside of the lodge in 
Stowe back in Sept. after multiple helpings of Bates' spaghetti.  If his diet 
consisted of bangers and mash I could picture it quite clearly)

------------------------------

From: dkenner@emr.ca (Dixon Kenner)
Subject: Re: Women WhoLike to Get Dirty
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 14:07:09 -0500 (EST)

> Careful Dixon, them's fightin' words.  Sparky may ship his oil burner across 
> the pond, back it up to your abode, stomp on the accelerator, and huff and 
> puff and burn your house down! :-D (wouldn't THAT be a sight)

	Burn my little abode down and you would 1) be tried by the list 
	for crimes against Land Rovers when the Series 1 engines, diffs,
	and gearbox goes up in flames, and 2) tried for burning toxic
	waste when the afore mentioned parts, plus the pile of IIA bits,
	gearboxes et cetera go up creating a plume you would see in
	New Jersey.

> (Hmmm, Mike... a "poofter"... I'm still trying to picture it... unless you 
> mean the kind of poofing that went on in the tents outside of the lodge in 
> Stowe back in Sept. after multiple helpings of Bates' spaghetti.  If his diet 
> consisted of bangers and mash I could picture it quite clearly)

	No, no, Mike isn't the poofter you wend challenged individual.
	All Mike will do is send over the French perfumed fuel for
	your Land Rovers.  We seem to sense that you might like to run on 
	the muck.  I do recall you showed in Stowe with a very *nicely*
	painted 109 that was quite out of place at times.

	Rgds,

	PS.  Fighting words eh...  Where did you hide the fuzzy dice 
             when you showed up at Stowe?  :-)
	PPS. How are the dictionary searches coming along... ROFL

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: LRO Arrives
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 11:13:09 PST

I got my Oct, and Nov LRO within 3 days of each other..
Does something smell here....

Russ
> My October LRO finally got here on Tuesday, 1 *Nov*.  I wonder if the 
> November issue will make it here this year...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
> San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 12:18:48 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Disco chatter... for Moloney

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB204 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Disco chatter... for Moloney
Hello, Moloney seemed to be needing some company, so even though I'm not
fortunate enough to own a "series" yet, he indicated that even "disco"
chatter would suffice. Well, here goes another "tidbit" of info...

1995 Prices:       (US $)
   Base:           $29350
   Auto trn:       $1150
   Lthr. jump sts: $925
   Leather uphol:  $1250
   Dual A/C:       $875
   Dual sun roofs: $1650

Added features:
  Adjustable lumbar support in front seats (Hand crank above the
    reclining crank).
  Interior lights illuminate when deactivating the alarm
  More colors. (I've seen the new blue, more bright blue, not so grey-blue))
  Supposedly more "silver" color to wheels (Didn't really notice much diff.)
... Oh dear... I think my mind is going... I can't remember anything more.

BTW... I never heard any opinions on "nerf" bars. (Under doors to protect
body side moldings. Opinions??? Please??? (Actually I heard one negative
response, about changing the brake-over angle.) Also, skid plates.

Oh! I DO have a friend that has a '64 (I think) series LR. in PERFECT
condition. He COMPLETELY restored it! It looks like it should be in
a dealer's showroom, in '64! He doesn't have an internet connection, but
I printed a few digests for him, and he LOVED them! Rover-mania!

Please respond on the "nerf bar" issue, and skid plates. (Your opinions.)

Thanks a LOT!!!

Dave Brown - Phoenix AZ (USA) - '94 Disco

#=====#                  Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|___|__\___              can change the world... indeed, it's the only
|   |   |  |             thing that ever has.
""O""""""O""                                            -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 12:25:32 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Disco skid plates - needed?

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB204 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Disco skid plates - needed?
Hello, could someone please tell me if skid plates are recommended for a
Disco? I have a '94 and plan to do a LOT of 4WD use, over a LONG period
of time. I plan to leave this to my children/grand children when I pass
on. I'm only 38 now, but you all KNOW how long LR's last... and who knows,
maybe I'll feel like upgrading the beast sometime... like 20-30 years! ;)

If anyone knows a source for skid plates, please let me know.

Thanks,

#=====#                  Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|___|__\___              can change the world... indeed, it's the only
|   |   |  |             thing that ever has.
""O""""""O""                                            -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Washing
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 11:31:30 PST

Last night my wife made me driver the R-rover to the car wash. While I
don`t object to washing the underpinnings. I did object to washing the 
body, but one has to make concessions to please the mate. So sure enough
after washing I inspected the truck paint for damage, and to my dismay
I realized that I had washed off all the brown paint, and all that 
was left was the blue primer. (we do have a standing argument over
the color of the truck)

Sat. it the big day for the 90. I have a friend comming over and
we are going to drive the 90 thru the pond...

Russ
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 12:34:23 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Land Rover names.

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB204 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Land Rover names.
Has anyone compiled a list of Land Rover names? I've had mine for one
month (Tomorrow) and am beginning to want to call her something. Is this
a LR thing? Am I losing it? - (What little I have left to lose, that
is.)

She's a black '94 Disco. with black rino bars, 2 Hella 9 inch round, and
2 Hella small square lights in front. IN SEARCH OF A NAME!

Thanks all, for the bandwidth

#=====#                  Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|___|__\___              can change the world... indeed, it's the only
|   |   |  |             thing that ever has.
""O""""""O""                                            -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 12:52:15 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Liscence plate "names"

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB204 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Liscence plate "names"
I'm thinking about getting a custom liscense plate, here are some ideas
I've had. (Please let me know if you have, or plan to use any of them.)

SAFARI     NO JEEP     4WD FUN      RX 4 FUN      FUN 4WD     FUN 4X4
LND RVR    ROVER       DSCVRY       UXL (YOU EXCELL)          GO 4 IT
SO GR8     WAY 2 GO    GR8 WRK      GOOD 4 U      XLNT        THANK U
THANKS     ATITUD      ATTI2D       MOTIV8        GR8 4X4     OH JOY
2 COOL     BLK BTY (Black Beauty)

I am limited to 6 characters. Any more ideas??? Please?

Thanks - Dave Brown - '94 Disco - Phoenix Arizona USA

#=====#                  Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|___|__\___              can change the world... indeed, it's the only
|   |   |  |             thing that ever has.
""O""""""O""                                            -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

Date: Fri,  4 Nov 1994 15:28:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Women Who Like to Get Dirty

Jory writes back at Bill:
>> Bill sez:
>>TerriAnn, where can we find such women???  Steve and Mike L. and Jon and Ben
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>overcome the limited gender/sex constructions of our societies [and who
>might be the kind of woman to appreciate  a rover... whether dressed in
>high heels/stockings or a mechanic's coveralls.]
 
Oh yea? Well Jory here in western Pa. 
The ladies that wear heels/stockings are of a single mind set. That being MONEY
The ladies that wear mechanics coveralls or baggy sweaters are of a
single mind set. That being MONEY.
Since our scruffy unstreamlined square boxes with wheels on the sides
AND on the hood and looking all the world like something pre nineties, 
this don't immediately bring to mind MONEY. 
SO if your look or demeanor is not "Favio" as you decend from your noble
steed, you ain't gonna get instant rover appreciation. You better talk
pretty fast and clever as she runs down the street towards the nearest
camero, or singles bar where the real men hang out.
I think Bill was asking for all of us in a last ditch wild fantasy if
such a perfect "woman who likes to get dirty" actualy exists. Hell he's
not sexist.
Hell I'm not sexist--<by the way what IS sexist?>
And I hope when the "woman who likes to get dirty" of my dreams comes
along, she is of the heels/stocking persuasion.

letching in the foothills of western pa.
Jon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 14:52:29 MST
From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL )
Subject: 95 NLRR

Anybody heard where the 95 National Rove rally
will be?  Probably won't have mine running until
then.  Thought I should plan ahead.

Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - You mean it shouldn't fire through the carb?

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Disco skid plates - needed?
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 17:37:52 EST

David Brown asks:

> Hello, could someone please tell me if skid plates are recommended for a
> Disco? I have a '94 and plan to do a LOT of 4WD use, over a LONG period
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> maybe I'll feel like upgrading the beast sometime... like 20-30 years! ;)
> If anyone knows a source for skid plates, please let me know.

This may sound like (and be) a naieve question, but will a 90 skid
plate fit a disco?

Someone I know who has a 90 got a skidplate (ala D90 official
accessories) but it wasn't sufficient (it didn't cover the diff)
so he had another fabricated.  Looks pretty nice, actually. 

rd/nigel

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Re: 95 US national rally
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 17:23:29 -0700 (MST)

Roy writes (and others have wanted to know):

< Anybody heard where the 95 National Rove rally
< will be?  Probably won't have mine running until
< then.  Thought I should plan ahead.

Rumor has it that it will be around Breckinridge, Colorado.  If the
past patterns are any indication, it will be mid-August.

If the above rumor is correct, the organizer is Peter
(how-embarrassing-I-forget-his-last-name--a-right-coast-Englishman-
whose-Vermont-son-has-a-110-at-Colorado-College).  Solihull Society
(Colorado LR club) does not appear to be involved in the planning
(yet).

I'll keep y'all posted if and when I hear more.  Maybe Ray or Russ can
help me with Peter's name -- he was at the 94 national rally ('92 also
-- maybe Roger remembers).

T. F. Mills                                              tomills@du.edu
University of Denver Library  2150 E. Evans Ave.  Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

From: JFisk1120@aol.com
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 21:29:05 -0500
Subject: Land Rover Bride

Speaking of that Playboy centerfold .........having been in the
limousine/special occasion business for almost 18 years, our limousines have
been photographed numerous times with brides.  Our '64 Land Rover is also a
part of our fleet....but not once has a bride asked to pose in that
manner...much to the disappointment of my husband!  And of course you know
what I have to say about that..."over my dead body"....I guess I better watch
out for a suspicious runaway Land Rover!!

Jan Fisk
"I brake for mud puddles"
Springfield, Missouri

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 22:02:46 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Flames for Ian Stuart & assorted BS

Maloney writes:

>Did anyone learn the name of that x-rated movie where the driver runs his 
>Rover into a cliff and, as those British workshop manuals so quaintly put re
>waterpump replacement, "offers himself up" to his female passengers?   
>Normally I would NEVER buy a disgusting piece of trash as this, but in this 
>case I could make an exception (Was it in english?  Subtitles?).
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Does it really matter?

>While we're at it, does anyone know the issue of Playboy where the center 
>"spread" was shot in the back of a soft top 88?  I'd like to see if I could 
>locate a back issue for my, er, Land Rover Library.

Hey!  I gotta get a copy of that!  If someone posts what issue it is, I'll 
see if I can get multiple copies.  (I have access to a lot of magazine 
collectors.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 22:02:49 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Flames for Ian Stuart & assorted BS

What was the date of Playboy,
that featured my favourite toy,
(Don't call me a churl,
 I don't mean the girl,
But a Rover, my pride and joy.)

There once was a man from Nantucket,
Whose seats were of the type known as bucket.
He drove with a smile,
down each country mile,
for 'twas in his Rover he'd stuck it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Re: LRO/LRW arrives
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 1994 00:28:51 -0700 (MST)

Everytime LRO and LRW arrive we like to compare notes on the
timeliness.  While relative times of arrival around the globe may be
an education about postal systems, I don't think much of the
discussion is actually as instructive about publisher vagaries as we
seem to assume.  The LR magazines are not really news magazines; it
doesn't matter what month an issue calls itself and when it arrives.
Many publishers use the gimmick of publishing far in advance so that
the publication sitting on your coffee table, office waiting room, or
whatever, looks fresher for a longer time.  LRW knows this gimmick;
thus the Dec. issue arrives at the beginning of Nov. and looks far
more on top of things than LRO which is behind publication schedule.
But read the fine print in the Dec. LRW and you see that it is last
summer's news, perhaps the same stuff that appears in the Oct. LRO.

In the US, subscribers to popular magazines like Time and Playboy will
find they receive issues before the cover date.  It's just a silly
gimmick that inspires confidence.

Some times the gimmick goes too far and inspires suspicion.  Years ago
I was a newspaper librarian handling thousands of titles from around
the globe.  It took Canadian and Mexican papers days, if not over a
week, to make it a few miles over the border into the US, but Soviet
daily papers arrived on the cover date -- and occasionally the day
before!  The old adage that there was no truth (pravda) in the news
(izvestiia), and no news in the truth was plain to see.  The
state-controlled press wrote the news, and then made sure it happened
-- or at least nobody could be blamed for thinking that was the case.

"The most important service rendered by the press and the magazines is
that of educating people to approach printed matter with distrust." --
Samuel Butler

"People everywhere confuse what they read in newspapers with news." --
A.J. Liebling

T. F. Mills                                              tomills@du.edu
University of Denver Library  2150 E. Evans Ave.  Denver  CO 80208  USA

 (who gets his Brit stuff 6-8 weeks after the Canucks -- scandalous!)

------------------------------

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