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Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 01:23:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: First Oil Change on New Disco 

Congratulations on your new Discovery purchase!!

Regarding synthetic engine oil, I use Castrol Syntec 5W50 religiously.
The viscosity range exceeds the 10W40 and 15W40 recommendations by
your dealer.  It's available here at Price/Costco for about $24 per
case of 6 qts. (Cheap insurance if it helps the engine live longer!)

Also consider replacing the gear oil with synthetic, such as Redline
75W90.  I replaced the oil in the 8 - 10 odd places of my Series III

and right swivel ball housing, steering box and steering relay box)
and it definitely runs quieter --less friction!!

Since were on the subject of vital Rover Fluids, consider using
silicone in the brake and hydraulic clutch systems instead of the
Girling brake fluid.  Silicone brake fluid does not absorb air (cause
of mushy brakes) or water (cause of metallic corrosion), is less
susceptible to heat (as in heavy braking), and is chemically compatible
with synthetic rubber seals, etc.  Also note that regular brake fluid
can take off body paint, while silicone will not.  Redline also has
Silicone Brake Fluid, as the brand name implies, this technology comes
from racing, their products have been used and tested in extreme
environments for years.  [Redline (510-228-7576), 3450 Pacheco Blvd.,
Martinez, CA 94553 USA]

--Michael
  cs@crl.com

Michael Carradine   Carradine Studios / Architecture Development Planning
NCARB RIBA          PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA    Vmail 510-945-5000

------------------------------

Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest 
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 06:05:07 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

>  Being the loving owner that I am, I intend to change the oil after the 
>first 1000 miles (which will be momentarily).  I have been persuaded by 
>the rec.autos.tech crowd to go with synthetic.

If you've got only a thousand miles on it, then you should not have been
winding it out, and you've not yet completed breakin.  Sure the rings and
stuff have seated, but there is going to be some more breakin when you 
start to wind it out and really load it up.

Generically, I've been told not to use synthetics until the vehicle was up
to 5000 to 7500 miles. (One at 1500, one at 4500, then synthetic at 7500,
etc.)  If your engine is not well broken in, and you go to synthetics, 
some unwanted things can happen.  Most of the stories are a bit dated now
'cause they're from the introduction of synthetics in the early eighties,
but on the engine side I doubt Rover is shipping pickled & race-ready engines.

> What's the best weight to 
>use?  The dealer suggested 10W40 or 15W40, but the only synthetic I can 
>find is either 5W30, 10W30, or 15W50

If you go way north in the winter the 5 or 10w30 may be one for you, 
if you're going out to Moab or death valley in the next 25000 miles then
you'll probably want to consider the 15W50. YMMV.  Failing a positive answer
to 'will you experience extremes of temperature', coin tossing works well
for this type of question. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 08:19:01 EDT
From: sat@eng.tridom.com (Stephen Thomas)
Subject: Re: Synthetic Oils

LRO@team:

Commenting on automotive mechanics is very dangerous for me (since
I know less than nothing). However, I am interested in this subject,
so I thought I'd fish for comments/expertise on the net. A lot of
my info below comes from _Drive_It_Forever_.

> Generically, I've been told not to use synthetics until the vehicle was up
> to 5000 to 7500 miles. (One at 1500, one at 4500, then synthetic at 7500,
> etc.)

One of the supposed advantages of synthetic oils is that they allow you
to really go the "recommended" service interval (7500 miles for the Disco)
between oil changes. I gather that's because synthetic oils don't
"break down" (whatever that means) as easily as natural ones. It seems
like another reason to change oil more frequently, though, is driving
in dusty environments (e.g. off-road). In fact, the author of Drive
It Forever (I wish I could remember his name), recommends an oil
change immediately after driving on a dirt road, no matter the mileage.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my Disco goes off-road fairly
frequently. I can't really afford to change the oil and filter every
other week, though. The most reasonable compromise to me is to change
the oil every 2500 miles, whether the oil is natural or synthetic.
At that interval, I'm not sure synthetic makes sense. Right now,
I think I'll go with plain old 10W40. Comments?

BTW, I can second Bill's suggestion to stick with natural oil for 
the first oil change. The mechanic that gave my Disco the once-over
(I bought it used), said I could consider synthetic, but NOT for
the first (and really the first two) oil changes, which he recommended
at 1500 and 4500 miles.

_____________________________________________
Stephen Thomas   AT&T Tridom   (404-514-3522)
email: sat@eng.tridom.com, attmail!tridom!sat

------------------------------

Date: 07 Oct 94 08:27:47 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Rover V8s: EPROMS

Mike Fredette remarked:
> <...snip...snip...> ... but L1000 seems a bit steep for an exhaust system.
none

'rather' ,  as the English would say...

I went quite the other way when recently rebuilding a V8 EFi from an
87' Range I literally 'carried away' at another one of those groovy
bancruptcy auctions of assets from a defaulted company (ok, I confess,
I'm a scavenger for Rovers...). For pistons, I ordered the set with the
*lower* compression ratio, actually stripping 12hp from the original
power rating (an anathema, I suppose, to the average american motorist?!).
The desired effect of this is that it can run on low-octane lead-free
regular (the price gap between regular and super in Europe is
*considerable*, and what they sell you as 'super' in eastern european
countries I wouldn't even put in my petrol camping lantern...). At the same
time it increases the cubics slightly (approx. 0.3 l), yielding more
low-down torque which in my case comes in handy as I have no inhibitions
taking the Range on hard offroad-runs. Besides, having grown up with an
old VW bus and a 4-cyl. 109, anything above 100hp is heavens to me ...

Stefan
<100043.2400@CompuServe.com>
LROC of Hessen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 09:12:47 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: 90 hard top

In message <wN2sTc7w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>  writes:
> TerriAnn says to take off the roll bar from the NAS 90's and slap a 
> regular hard top on.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> regards
> Robin
Robin,
The 109 four door does not have a bulkhead behind the seat ether.  Bulkheads 
behind the seat are necessary for pickup tops but not full hard tops.

I'm making the assumption that Rover took a Defender 90 and added things for the
North American Spec.  I don't see why you can't undo a little of the add on and 
end up with a body that can take a standard Defender 90 hard top.  I guess I'll 
have to stop at a dealer to see what the big deal is about the roll bar.  Wings 
are supposed to be an integral part of the car too, but you can unbolt them and 
drive around just fine.

My latest lateral thinking has to do with camper pop up tops.  It has been 
drought to my attention that the fiberglass pop up tops on Doormobiles are the 
same as was used on the pre-1968 VW camper vans.  I'm finding myself wondering 
if the vertical pop up top on post-'68 VW campervans would fit the top of a 109.

I'll measure my 109 Sat when I go to visit (begining to feel like a divorced 
parent who does not have child custidy).  There is a VW campervan for sale near 
my house.  I'll put the tape to that on the way.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
LINK: TWAKEMAN              
408-974-2344                         TR3A - TS75519L, 
                       MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 09:53:23 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: disc brake squeaking

The thread on synthetic oils etc reminded me of the other semi-fluidic 
substances used to stop disc brakes from squeaking. After I replaced the
pads on my RR, I have had this proble. On the front ones, which I did
first, I put some Permatex anti-squeak stuff, but they squeaked anyway.
So I asked the local dealer what they use, and they said "nothing".
So when I did the rear ones, I used nothing, and they squeal too.
In both cases I used the Land Rover Genuine Parts (asbestos pads -- yuk!)

Any insight on this would be appreciated.

Many thanks

John Brabyn
California
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 09:58:39 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: synthetic oils

I have observed the synthetic oil phenomenon as it has developed, and have
these questions:

1. If it's so great, why isn't it used and specified by the engine manufacturers
in new vehicles?

2. The question of expense aside, is it really going to preserve my aging 
engine (90,000 miles)? (I should note that the said engine already uses 
more than its share of oil).

Cheers

John Brabyn

Mill Valley
Ca
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 10:04:51 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Oil Consumption

The fairly consistently high oil consumption of my 3.9V8 is a bit disturbing.
It has used at least a quart per 1,000 miles ever since I got it at 50,000
miles. I noticed someone said that excessive consumption on a new Discovery
was due to leaking inlet valve guides or seals. How does one tell if
this is the cause, or if heavy duty stuff like piston/cylinder/rings
is at fault?? (The vehicle now has over 90,000 miles on it).

I'd be interested in any advice.

John Brabyn
Mill Valley
California
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:24:52 -0700
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Welcome to California

John Hong writes:

>I've just moved to California (Bay area) and I was not able to make the rally 
>this year.  :(
>Looking forward to meeting the CA rover folks!
none
Welcome to California, John, we will be looking forward to meeting you too!  
If you are ever going to head up 101 from the Bay area, let me know and I'll 
tell you how to find my place in Redwood Valley, not far off 101, and you're 
welcome any time! ;-)  This goes for anyone else on the list, as well, of 
course. 8-} 

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4]
[ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net              Phone: (707) 485-7220 ]
[ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway!  ]
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:25:36 -0700
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Koenig Winch For Sale

I wish to announce that I have the following item for sale:

Koenig winch, 9,000#, engine driven, for Land-Rover, $600 or reasonable offer.

The winch is, as I understand it, a 9,000# model (and appears to be designed 
for 3/8" cable).  It was last installed on an 86" Series I and was removed 
from that vehicle when sold, about 1970 or 1971.  Since then it has been 
stored indoors.  It is complete with all controls, etc. and is in very good 
condition. It has a roller fairlead but no cable.  It lacks only the simple 
drive piece which replaces the starter dog on the front of the engine.  I 
believe that this part can still be obtained from Koenig (in Texas, which 
still manufatures fire pumping equipment) or can easily be fabricated.  It 
has all the rest of the drive apparatus.

I did some digging in old Aluminum Workhorse issues and elsewhere to try to 
find some guidance as to the price that I should get for this beast.  I 
found nothing, only people looking for them.  The only asking prices for 
these I can ever remember having seen were Kellog-the-Corn-Flake's prices, 
so not much of a guide (well over $1,000, if I remember correctly).  My 
feeling is that it should be worth somewhere around $550 to $600, 
considering that it is minus the drive piece and has no winch cable, and 
considering that I traded a new Fairey overdrive for it.  I have had it for 
about eight years but have not installed it.

I have offered it first to a couple of Land-Rover owners who had previously 
expressed an interest in it.  So far, I have not gotten replies from either 
of them, so I am offering it to anyone who may be interested.  I would not 
be considering selling it except that I need the cash, as quickly as I can 
raise it.  Therefore, for this item, I am not interested in trades.  Thanks!

Reply to Granville Pool <mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net> or call (707)463-4265 
(work, between 8:15 and 4:30 or so, M-F, or (707) 485-7220 (home).
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4]
[ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net              Phone: (707) 485-7220 ]
[ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway!  ]
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: 07 Oct 94 16:51:29 EDT
From: Leslie from Florida & Liverpool <100042.254@compuserve.com>
Subject: Please Repost for Taylor Sutherland III

On 4 Oct C Taylor Sutherland III <taylor@hubcap.clemson.edu> wrote:

 >> The people that were importing the LR's that were due the 4th OCT. I got
the mail but in attempts to save it, the editor ate it.  I would like an
address, so I can decide because.....>>

 Here is the info!

 24 hr Pager 011-44-81-3456789 (quote ATH 60, leave message and we will call
you back)
 Fax    011-44-51-707-2075
 US# Oct 22-30 508-385-6632

 We are currently shipping a refurbed Series II, due in New York
 October 20th. I am also arriving into New York that Friday and will be
driving the Land Rover to Cape Cod.  It is currently for sale, and if you are
anywhere in the area and would like to view the vehicle, send me an email. 
Here are the details:

 An 88" refurbed short wheel base (1960) Series II a.k.a. " Gyndwr "
(Glendower)-chassis excellent. Genuine bronze green (enamel paint) body,
limestone top and wheels. Recently reconditioned 2.25 liter petrol engine. New
clutch, battery, oil pump, road springs, brake pipes, shock absorbers, Solex
carburettor, etc. Spare tire on bonnet with (new) Land Rover logo tire cover.
All new heavy duty grey carpeted interior throughout, fully soundproofed, with
rubber mat payload in rear. Free wheeling hubs, heater, headliner and interior
side trim , 2 rear spotlights, (5) 600X16 tires, new Land Rover logo mudflaps.
7 seater - all new deluxeLand Rover black front seats (3 in front) with 2 new
inward facing bench seats in back. New rubber seals on all doors. Rear Safari
door. Hand throttle. Antenna - wired for radio. New front door tops/bottoms
and footwells. Rear wire lamp guards. Tow hitched front and rear, with rear
wiring. more... New workshop manual (still sealed) & parts catalogues
supplied. $8400 including all shipping/duties/etc- open to offers.

 Beginning refurbishment

 88' short wheel base (1968) Series IIa Military a.k.a "Guinness" - Chassis
excellent. High gloss black (enamel) and gold trimed hard top-bringing it
right down to bare metal and new paint to be applied soon. 45,000 miles -
recon diesel.  All new doors and footwells. Spare tire on bonnet with (new)
Land Rover logo tire cover.  All new heavy duty grey carpeted interior
throughout (optional) , soundproofed, with rubber mat payload in rear. Free
wheeling hubs, Wraparound
 bullbar with 2 front spotlights, (5) 600 or 750 X16 tires, new Land Rover
logo mudflaps.  7 seater - two black bucket seats w/ headrestswith standard
middle seat in front, with 2 new inward facing bench seats in back. New rubber
seals on all doors. Drop down tailgate with removeable  hardtop swinging door.
Military pick and shovel fitted. Radio/speakers installed. New front door
tops/bottoms and
 footwells. Rear tow hitch with wiring.  Heater.  more....  New workshop
manual (still sealed) & parts catalogues supplied.

 Several 109" long wheel base Series II Safari station wagon.  Chassis
excellent. Totally reconditioned engine and gearbox.  Tropical Roof with
arctic windows. Refurbishment to begin soon.  Many of the same above features.

 1956 fire tender in pristine condition. Only 3000 miles.  Fire engine red. 
200 gallon a minute pump on rear with two tall side lockers (great utility
truck) Drives beautifully.  All seals, gaskets tires etc new.  Just released
from factory service. Inside factory for entire life.  Really fun, but also
very functional utility vehicle.
 Like new.

If you are interested in seeing the 88" send me an email......

 Cheers,

 Leslie Stutsman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:58:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Oil Consumption

John, you can usually tell if the seals on your valves are bad by seeing
if you get a puff of blue smoke just when you start up your vehicle.  What
happens is, because the seal is poor, oil runs down the stem of the valve
into the combustion chamber.  When you first fire up that chamber, the oil
is burned creating smoke.  The second and subsequent operations don't have
any oil to burn so the engine runs clean.  It is a very simple job to
replace them.  The best way is to use air pressure applied through the
spark plug hole to keep the valve up while you take off the spring and
retaining clip.  The seal is just a little rubber umbrella with a tiny
spring in it that goes around the shank of the valve.  You can pull off
the old one and put a new one on in a few minutes.  I haven't tried it but
my friends tell me that in place of the air pressure method, you can put
small diameter rope in the chamber through the spark plug hole and turn
the piston up to the valve with the crank or by turning the flywheel with
a bar.  I guess it would work fine.  Just keep a piece of the rope outside
the spark plug hole to retrieve it :-) or you might have to have a
bon-fire to get it out.  You don't have to take off the heads or anything
to do this job.  Only loosen off the rocker arms and go to it.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:39:33 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused

>jjj> 
>> Today I just got new ROMs updated on all the electronics, hoping this will
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
>Russ
>Off to Va. for the Rover Rally

But most importantly -- Do these ROM's include Tetris?!?

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:39:36 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Flashing Rover Things

>> Steven asks:     
>> Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> maybe 
>> you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous 
replies
>> encouraged). 
>Bill replies:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
>little ahead of his time.
>rd/nigel

Oh come on! This is Lucas, we're talking about.  The parking lights are 
supposed to flash *all* the time!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:39:44 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Rover/HP diagnostics system..

>> Last September, Rover introduced yet another subcompact. It has
>> four wheels and a power supply, but does not look or feel any-
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
>I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek.   |Land Rover owners do
>Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain.  |  it in the mud.

Heck, can I get one for my HP3000???

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

------------------------------

Subject: traceable wiring
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 20:05:06 -0500

Thought this would interest those of you contemplating a rebuild.

Western Star, a BC based class 8 truck company uses traceable wiring on 
all of its trucks. That is to say that if you look in the manuals for say 
the left rear stop light it will tell you that that wire is lablelld 
zz23. So anywhere you go on the truck, in the frame , in  the harness, 
that you find zz23 printed onto the wire, as all their wires have 
individual labelliing printed onto them , you have found the left rear 
brake light wire. 

So neat and so simple eh!

ttfn, of to see mickey ,hope to spot soem Lr product down south

Robin

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry,            |    Ottawa Valley Land Rovers
Nepean, Ontario, Canada       |    1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean
(OVLR's InterNet site)        |    Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4

------------------------------

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