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From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: US national rally report in LRW
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 01:54:42 -0600 (MDT)

For those of you who enjoyed my recent report on the US national
rally, watch for an improved, illustrated version in the Dec. LRW.
They liked the article, and loved the photos even better.  It's rather
gratifying that my windshieldless perspective paid off.  (And I
thought the folding windshield was a military application.)  

I was impressed with LRW's response:  they telephoned to confirm
publication and offer decent payment.  By contrast, I and other
writer/photographers have had dismal experiences with LRO's failure to
pay and failure to even acknowledge receipt of articles and photos

T. F. Mills                                              tomills@du.edu
University of Denver Library  2150 E. Evans Ave.  Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Brakes
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 12:07:34 BST

Mike,
Sarcastic?Feel free,dear boy,feel free:-)
I personally have two separate braking systems on my diesel 88".
Both factory fitted.Or three if you count the handbrake.One one
the road wheels,one one transmission,and the other is called....
...the engine!Stopping isnt my problem,its getting the bloody
thing going fast enough to *need* brakes thats MY problem!
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Subject: Re:  Air-Camping (Gidion
From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 13:12:00 +0100

>did you find the numbers for gidions?  I would like to see if one
>could order a replacement for only the fabric.
>Vance Chin
none

    Hi Vance,
    I've called Mr. Dionisio, who runs the Air-Camping shop in 
S.Giuliano (10 kms. from Milan).
    He's a very kind person. He can send every part for any 
model, any year. You can contact him directly by fax at 
(0)2-9841903 or by voice at (0)2-9841901. He speaks and reads 
english, but if you want you can send me an e-mail with all the 
details, and I can ask him.
    You have to specify which model you have. There are 3 + 2 models:
(in cms.)
short models - 120x105 (210 opened) produced from 1959 to 1963
             - 130x105    "         produced from 1964 to 1977
             - 130x110 (220 opened) produced from 1978 onwards

Large models - 160x110 (220 opened)
             - 180x110 (220 opened)
    You also have to specify if you need the tent fabric or the 
"capottina", the piece that covers the tent, when closed.
    If you need the "capottina", you have to specify if it's a 
standard one (whith 4 lashing points) or the safari one (6 l.p.).
    They can also send parts for the tent frame, etc.
    If you need any help, just send me an e-mail.
    Mr. Dionisio will be away until the 28 of September (taking a 
new model mounted on a Defender to a camping gear show).
    Bye
    Ludovico
---
* UniQWK v3.0 * The Windows Mail Reader

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 07:54:57 -0400
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: LRW vs LRO for Article submission

T.F. Mills writes:

none
I was impressed with LRW's response:  they telephoned to confirm
publication and offer decent payment.  By contrast, I and other
writer/photographers have had dismal experiences with LRO's failure to
pay and failure to even acknowledge receipt of articles and photos
(even after repeated mail, telephone and fax queries!)
none

A few years ago I sent an article on one of the ABP rallys to LRO with photos 
and a SAE with postage to return the photos.  Sent 2 follow up letters and 
never got a response or my photos back.  And the ABP rally wasn't covered 
that year.  Last week I sent a copy of my off-road trip piece with photos to 
LRW.  It'll be interesting to see what response I get if any.

Bill

maloney@stratus.com

HI HO! HI HO! IT'S OFF TO STOWE I GO!....

------------------------------

Date: 15 Sep 94 08:47:14 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Debt of Honor

Sandy:

I just started Debt of Honor last night too.

Can't for get there was a Range rover mentioned in the first or second chapter,
too, used in the capture of (loosly disguised) Mohammad Farrah Aidid.

Great book so far.  And not the first time Clancy mentioned Range Rovers... in
Hunt for Red October, he had Ryan driving one to the airport.

Trivia for the day from a Clancy addict.

R. P. Reid

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 09:14:22 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: T-Shirts

Just got in the color separations for the T-shirts for Mid-Atlantic
Rally...Sand Toler is one talented illustrator....perhaps you've seen his
work in "Newsweek".  Anyway, I'm about to place an order with the screen
print place and will up the ante if some 'Netters want one.  The shirts
will be grey cotton, with a *six* color image of a Series I in a rainstorm
on the back.  (It *always* rains at our events, so maybe if we *promote* or
promise rain, it won't happen.)  So if you can't make the event you may
want one...it's really a stunning image...better than anything ABP or RN
has ever offered. Price $15?

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Subject: Re: T-Shirts 
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 07:24:47 -0700
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

Sandy,
	Put me down for an XL please, and let me know when 
to send the check to you. Talk to ya later.
						rgds
						Mike Fredette
						94 DEFENDER 90
						90 RANGE ROVER
						61 SER ll 109
						Portland, Oregon

------------------------------

From: JFisk1120@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 11:07:18 EDT
Subject: Discovery For Sale

A friend in St. Louis is selling her '94 Discovery that she bought just last
July.  It is black in color.  She is selling because she is getting a '95
Range Rover County LWB....list price $57,000.  I believe the asking price for
the Discovery is $34,500.

If you are interested.....email me direct and I will give you her name and
number.

May the best man/woman.........spend alot of money!

Jan Fisk
JFisk1120@aol.com
Springfield, Missouri

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 11:15:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: T-Shirts

Sandy, Please put me down for one LARGE. I can send you a check or just
pick it up at the rally.
See you there
Thanks
Jon
 # # # # # # # # # # # # # >>> ================\
   "YOU MUsT REMEMBER THIS"    |----------||@  \\   ___
  *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*    |____|_____|||_/_\\_|___|_
   It ain't nezezzarily so!   <|  ___\    ||     | ____  | --->>Elysium
         ++++++++++           <| /    |___||_____|/    | |              
                     
 = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> ||/  O  |__________/  O  |_||
    jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu         \___/ LAND ROVER \___/
                  
                 /~~~~~~//~~~~~~~/              @
                /      //       /             _/~\/   67-RED 109"
             []]]]]]]]]]]------/               _|     ROADSTER PICKUP
             []]]]]]]]]]]=======|_____========((==|   WITH A GUMMY MAN         
        ____=========_____------|    |            |   IN THE BACK
       |    |/|@) (@|     |     |    |            |
       | ** |/|  || | * * | ___ |    |      __    |
       |    |/|||||||     |{    \____|_____/   \  |
       |____|/|_____|_____|[    }\_________}   ]\_||
      |___________________|[    }         |[   ]
         \    /          \ \   /          \\   }
          ~~~~            ~ ~~~             ~~~   

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 08:38:12 -0700
From: jimmyp@netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick)
Subject: Re: Usenet; mail programs

>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 00:00:23 -0700
>From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>windows software will automagically log on to your host, grab all your
>mail, send off mail you've written off-line, and log off.
snip

There is also a great program for Macintosh called Eudora that has the same
features that Uncle Rogers program has except you can use it on a Mac. And
1.x versions are freeware. I use it and it is great but I have no financial
interest in Qualcomm.

Jimmy

----
_________________________________________
\ Jimmy Patrick      (408)395-1629 home  \  =====__                    /
/ jimmyp@rahul.net   (408)264-3646 work   \_|[__]|_\_==_          _.._/
\ jimmyp@netcom.com                       / |    |'|    ]        /
/________________________________________/   (@)-----(@) ._.^..^/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 12:48:40 -0300
From: "Steven E. Parker" <steven.parker@acadiau.ca>
Subject: Subscribe

Please subscribe steven.parker@acadiau.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 09:19:09 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Rover book

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist
       AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Rover book
Yes! I'd LOVE to view some Land Rover comics! In fact, I have a Gary
Larsen (Far Side) comic with a rover in it on my desk. It shows several
water buffalo's leaning up against a Rover smoking cigarettes, and a man
wearing a safari hat exiting a building in the foreground.  The
caption reads: "As Nyles left the safari club, his stomach suddenly
knotted up. Foolishly, he had ignored the warnings not to park his
Land-Rover in this part of Tanzania."

My address is:
     Dave Brown
     903 W. Jerome Cir.
     Mesa, AZ 85210

I'd be happy to forward it on to the next on your list.

Thanks for your offer! Might I suggest you keep a list of e-mail
addresses of who you send it to, so you can follow up with where the
book is.

Thanks again, Dave.... debrown@srp.gov

   #=====#              "Never doubt that a small group of individuals
   |___|__\___           can change the world... indeed, it's the only
   |   |   |  |          thing that ever has."
"  "`O'""""`O'"                                          -Margret Mead

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 09:25:27 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Traction control? When??? On what???

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist
       AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Traction control? When??? On what???
Reading the digest, someone mentioned rumors of a 4 channel traction
control setup for Land Rovers. Could anyone enlighten us on when this
might be available, and on which models? Will it be available on the '95
models? Exactly what is this, locking differentials?

As for the Discovery, has anyone heard any news on '95 model additions
or changes? How about price increase?

   #=====#              "Never doubt that a small group of individuals
   |___|__\___           can change the world... indeed, it's the only
   |   |   |  |          thing that ever has."
"  "`O'""""`O'"                                          -Margret Mead

------------------------------

Date: 15 Sep 94 13:06:43 EDT
From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com>
Subject: FELLOW LRO IN MAINE

My wife and I are driving from Fl to Maine for 30days of R&R.We will be 
staying in our house in Winter Harbor.Does anyone know places in Maine to go 
where we can see and talk Land Rovers.Though we have lived in Maine on and off
for 15yrs. we are new to the LR scene.
Thanks for any suggestions received.
Benjamin G. Newman, MD
1962 88 series llA SWB upgraded by Warwick 4X4 to series lll
1966 109 NADA wagon series llA

------------------------------

From: Spenny@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 13:12:15 EDT
Subject: Re: Strange Land Rover

There was a one ton land rover variant pickup truck built in Portugual under
license.  They have very different body panels, but a very recognizable roof
and windshield, 

The Santanas I have seen didn't vary much from the Solihull rovers, tail
lights, etc. If Stefan has seen the movie, I would assume he is correct, but
again I haven't seen many santanas that weren't immediately recognizable as
rovers.

Stefan, could it be the Portugese 1 ton?

there was also a hungarian or german version built under license.

the portugese version is pictured on pgs 28 & 34 of the haynes restoration
book

Spenny

Spencer K. C. Norcross                                Spenny@aol.com
Haverhill, Mass. USA
===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===
1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine

Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway!
What will they think of next!

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Traction control? When??? On what??? 
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 10:36:18 -0700
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

Dave Brown asks,

	SUBJECT: Traction control? When??? On what???
Reading the digest, someone mentioned rumors of a 4 channel traction
control setup for Land Rovers. Could anyone enlighten us on when this
might be available, and on which models? Will it be available on the '95
models? Exactly what is this, locking differentials?

As for the Discovery, has anyone heard any news on '95 model additions
or changes? How about price increase?
none
Well, I got a chance to talk to the LRNA engineer from Solihull that was
at the Portland Field Meet a few weeks ago and pick his brain a while.
The current Discovery model technically IS a 95 model, but due to cert-
ification SNAFU's here in the US, it was brought over as a 94. The changes
for the next model year are minimul with the exception of the addition
of the traction control system currently on the Range Rover LWB. This system,
rather than using diff locks etc, instead uses the ABS system in a reverse mode
to apply braking to the wheel that it senses is loosing traction. Kinda unique.
I saw this tested in some muddy conditions a few weeks ago at another meet
here in Portland that the dealer was sponsoring and it seemed to help but this
perhaps a bit subjective on my part. No word yet on price increases but I would 
certainly expect one. This should answer your questions. He also let slip of the
new/old project underway thanks to an infusion of BMW money. It seem Land Rover
has had many projects languishing on the shelves for lack of capital and this is
one BMW said go with. As I understand it, it will be a new vehicle, utilizing
Defender axles and running gear, have 4 doors, but using a unibody type 
construction. It will not be called a Defender as Land Rover has promised to 
maintain the exclusivity of the 500 Defender 110 models brought into this country
a few years back. This new model is lower priced to start with, about 23k US he 
thinks, and is aimed at the Isuzu Amigo, Geo Tracker/Suzuki Sidekick tow it behind
the monster motor home crowd here in the US. He didn't give any idea as to when
or what engine so who knows.
							Rgds
							Mike Fredette
							94 DEFENDER 90
							90 RANGE ROVER
							61 SER ll 109
							Portland, Oregon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 12:53:07 -0700
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Re: gossip, rovers

John Hess writes:
>Granville,
>I hope I get to meet you soon, both for the Land Rover info and to get out
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>just my style but too small.  I am even willing to put up with the modern
>car electronic hard to work on stuff for a real plain steel (oops,
>Aluminum) interior with thick rubber mats.
John:

Look forward to meeting you, too.  Sounds like I would have, had I made it 
to the Palo Alto meet.  For all that I told everyone at Portland that I 
couldn't go to Palo Alto, I had decided to go (my wife was even going to 
accompany me!) and worked like mad on sanding and painting a set of wheels 
to change onto the Land-Rover I took to Portland.  Then, I drove the Rover 
into town (Ukiah) on Saturday to wash off the mud from Portland and found 
that it had started wanting to overheat.  Acts like it's just the thermostat 
but don't know yet.  Anyway, took the wind out of my sails and I decided to 
stay home and try to get done some of the work on my office building that I 
was supposed to have been doing when I was messing around with the Rover. Am 
sorry not to have made it, as I wanted to see everyone (have never met Brad) 
and had particularly looked forward to meeting Peter Wong who had said 
(we've corresponded) that he would be there. Must meet him one of these days 
as he has a restored Austin Champ 4x4 and I have an unrestored one.  

I have a lot of unrestored vehicles--I seem to be good at finding them and 
not good at finding time to work on them (has not always been the case; I 
really have actually built a few).  

I just found two more very interesting sort-of-one-owner (in an estate) 
Land-Rovers (that She-who-must-be-obeyed will certainly not let me buy at 
this time--someone's got to restrain me!).  They are a 1958 Series II 88" 
hard-top with 2-liter f-head engine (like a Series I) with fewer than 31,000 
original miles, probably few if any off-road, and a 1970(?) Series IIa 88" 
hard-top with a smashed left front fender (wing).  The IIa has been sitting 
for 12 years with weeds growing up around it but has apparently fewer than 
65,000 original miles. The 58, I think, runs and is sitting on a car lot 
(albeit buried in the back).  I think this type of Series II is quite rare, 
especially in the U.S.  Heard somewhere that in England there is a special 
club for them.  The woman (deceased) who owned them was a book-keeper for a 
Land-Rover dealer.  Don't know what kind of prices would be required to get 
these rigs but person who "controls" them says they can be bought.

Next year Bennett and I plan to try to make the Hayward, Portland, and Palo 
Alto meets and some real off-road events.  But first, got lots of work to do 
on the Rovers and on other stuff (like a shop so I have a place to work on 
Rovers).  FWIW, I met Mark Swain from Davis at the Portland meet; nice 
fellow.  He seemed to be interested in my Land-Rover for sale (yes, the one 
that is overheating).  I have decided to put some work into it and make sure 
(as I can) that it will be reliable before I put it back on the market.

If you're ever up our way, give a call and come by.  Rover folks are always 
welcome! We're in Redwood Valley (north of Ukiah).  Call for address and 
directions (or just look in the phone book, we're listed--ignore our Ukiah 
listing, the Redwood Valley listing is home).

Just brought home my 1961(?) (need to check the actual year) 88" station 
wagon. It says, on the driver's door:  "East Africa Preditory Wildlife 
Survey, Kenya-Uganda Districts"  and that appears authentic.  Passenger-side 
door has had it rubbed off.  The Body is painted tan and appears to be the 
original paint.  Also has an "E" stenciled on the back.  Got to try to track 
the history of this vehicle and see if this appearance has past to match.

Oops!  Almost forgot that the main reason for this reply was your interest 
in the four-door Defender 90.  Understand this: "90" stands (sort of) for 
wheelbase, which is actually 93.9".  A four-door 90 will still have this 
wheelbase, so no more room.  Maybe they'll decide to bring in more 110s 
(actually has a 110" wheelbase) but I haven't heard of any such plans.  
Better, IMHO would be a Defender 100 which would be built on the Discovery 
platform.  Would keep the short rear overhang of the 90 (or shorter even).  
Reasonable compromise between break-over angle and usable interior space.  I 
have seen a number of 100" Land-Rover specials built on older Range-Rover 
chassis and like the idea.

BTW, to complicate your decision, I also know of the whereabouts of a fairly 
interesting old 109" two-door hard-top.

Well, I guess I've hogged enough band-width for one message.
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4]
[ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net              Phone: (707) 485-7220 ]
[ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway!  ]
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 16:24:55 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: 109 for Sale

One of our club members, Mike Bross of Hendersonville, NC has a primo 109
for sale.  I wanted to buy it, but just don't have the cash right now.
It's a '66 IIa with full roof rack and front/rear lights; new bronze green
paint, 12,000 miles on rebuilt '72 2.25 motor, new Zenith carb, Chevy 60
amp alternator, CB radio.  Overdrive.  Strong frame, new rear x-member.
Excellent overall condition; $12,000 invested, asking $9,500 (he's going to
buy a Range Rover).  Call Mike at 704-692-7415.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: 15 Sep 94 18:29:16 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Add-a-leaf saga Part IV

Folks:

In the first three segments, I talked about removing the springs from the
vehicle, dismantling and reassembling the spring packs; and re-hanging the
springs on the vehicle.

This final, short installment is my driving impressions (short term, naturally)
and my thoughts on the asethetics of such a conversion.

First, a retrospective on the task...  

There is a sign at the Navy SEALS training center in Coronado, California that
reads "The only easy day was yesterday."  Much the same logic applies to the the
job of adding spring leaves:  "the only easy job is the one you have just
finished." 

This is heavy, hard work and, if you are not  competent with tools and
well-prepared for the job, have a professional spring shop do the job for you. 

That said, I have found the added leaves to be a nice addition to my 88.  The
ride is slightly harsher, but not radically so.  Mostly, the harder ride has
offset the "softness"  I gained when I switched to 7.5-16 Radials from a set of
uni-directional agricultural bias-ply tires.  The springs do transmit more noise
into the car than before on big bumps, though, and hitting a pothole is
noticeable now where before I could bounce over it without much notice.  

Part of this, however, may be due to the fact that I removed my winch at the
same time I did the spring job (I had not used it in a long time) and so took
100+ pounds off the front.  This weight was magnified further because I extended
my frame bosses 3" earlier this year to accomodate the winch, so the winch hung
out more than usual, so I had removed some nice weight from the front of the
vehicle that helped the sporinging somewhat.

The most interesting by-product of the add-a-leafs  has been that a few rattles
that I could not hear before have become louder.  Most noticeable is the
rattling of the dust screens/extension tubes in a partially empty gas tank
(remember, the 88 military's have under-seat tanks AND fillers).  I attribute
this to the marginally harsher ride as the spring packs are tight and I am not
getting any noise from the springs.  

On the road, there has been no difference.  Cornering has not been affected at
all (at least not the way I drive).  I have not had it off-road any distance, so
I'll have to let you know how that goes.

As for the aesthetics of the vehicle... it looks dead stock.  Only someone who
REALLY knew Land Rovers would have any idea anything had been done and they
would probably need a tape measure to know for sure.  

The lift is moderate at best.  About 2-3" (I forgot to measure before and
after).  The 7.5 x 16 wheels fill the fender wells about the same as the 6.5 x
16's used to, so it gives an illusion of being stock.  The only angle at which
something looks "different" is from straight on where you notice a little more
space between the front bumper and the road than before,

However, when you stand next to the Land Rover, you notice a real change.  The
hood is near chest-height, and the roof is really way up there!  I now have to
pull myself up slightly to get in the seat.  I am looking forward to parking it
next to a Defender 90, because I think it will have about the same stance.

But overall, any concerns I had at the beginning about ending up with something
resembling a jacked-up Monster Land Rover are long gone.  It looks like any
other Land Rover, albiet a little bigger!

Anyway, I'll update you as I go along and start pulling together an article for
Aluminum Workhorse.  I forgot to look up the part numbers, but if anyone is
interested in doing this conversion,  send me an e-mail and I'll get you parts
and prices.  I'd also be glad to talk anyone through segments on the phone if
you let me know in advance by e-mail.

Thanks again to everyone who responded with advice.  In a couple of weeks, I am
installing a Smiths heater (is it on the way Granville?) and will likely turn
that into an article as well.

Cheers, 

R. Pierce Reid

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 

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