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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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msgSender linesSubject
1 Roger Sinasohn [sinasohn51Re: Usenet
2 Roger Sinasohn [sinasohn17mail vs. usenet solution?
3 Spenny@aol.com 29Names List-Ballot Results
4 "R. Pierce Reid" [70004.18Strange Land Rover
5 Michael Carradine [cs@cr33Re: mail vs. usenet solution?
6 "Stefan R. Jacob" [1000453Re: Strange Land Rover on TV
7 CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR 35Various subjects
8 "TeriAnn Wakeman" [twak32Re: Brakes
9 maloney@wings.attmail.co38Sleaze Rover
10 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu18Re: Brakes
11 jfhess@bullwinkle.ucdavi46mainly Palo Alto All British
12 dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on36[not specified]
13 "TeriAnn Wakeman" [twak29Re: mainly Palo Alto All British
14 "R. Pierce Reid" [70004.181Add-A-Leaf Saga Part III
15 "Russell G. Dushin" [dus23Re: mail vs. usenet solution?
16 William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.28Re: Brakes
17 Leslie Stutsman [100042.31Land Rovers available
18 mcdpw@pacific.pacific.ne123Portland Meet
19 LANDROVER@delphi.com 72Re: Brakes


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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 00:00:23 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Usenet

If scanning messages is the problem with the mail list, I may have a 
solution.  (Actually, it's Teriann's idea, but I'm always happy to take the 
credit.)  I use a program called Pronto from CommTouch software.  This 
windows software will automagically log on to your host, grab all your 
mail, send off mail you've written off-line, and log off.  

You can then read and reply at your leisure off-line.  Messages are 
presented in a split window;  the top half indicates whether the message 
has been read, who it's from, date and time received, and the subject.  The 
bottom half shows the body of the message.  

There are scroll bars for each half, and you can size each half (as well as 
the whole window) so that you can show just a few headers and a lot of 
message, or vice-versa.  You can also pop the message up in a window if you 
want to have just a bit showing in the folder and lots of headers.  

Mail to you go into an "incoming" folder, and outgoing mail goes either 
into a "draft" folder or an "outgoing queue" folder, depending on whether 
you want to edit it later.  (you can edit messages in either one, but those 
in the outgoing get sent while draft doesn't.)  

You can also set up your own folders, either local (only on the pc) or not 

start to drag it, a window pops up with your folders listed, and you can 
just drop the message into which ever folder.  very slick.  

No newsgroup support (other than terminal emulation) yet, but that's 
planned for the next upgrade.  Tech support is very helpful, although the 
manual kinda sucks.  A spell checker is included for outgoing messages (you 
can tell I don't use it). 

Lots of nifty features -- if you want more info, let me know.  Cost is 
$149; in the June 14 - July 4 issue of Computer Currents (local free 
computer newspaper/mag), they had an add offering a promotional price of 
$99.  Runs under windows, and works with a standard unix account.  (No SLIP 
account needed like Mosaic.)

Oh, also has "aliases" (Address book), easy import of the original message 
into replies, and an auto signature feature.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 00:00:19 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: mail vs. usenet solution?

Maybe that's the best solution -- Post the digests to a newsgroup on a 
daily basis.  That way, those who prefer newsgroups can do that, those who 
prefer e-mail can still do that.  

I dunno.  I'm still new to all this.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                               

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From: Spenny@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 06:33:10 EDT
Subject: Names List-Ballot Results

And the envelope please...

31)   NO NAME - Keep LRO@Team.Net/Land Rover Owners@Team.Net
by a wide margin.

I don't have a total count on how many members/subscribers 
we have total, but I think a representative sample exercised 
their right to the franchise.
If people are interested in the actual breakdown of 
what got how many votes let me know and I will post it.

Thanks for letting me take charge charge of this 
cyber-anarcho-democratic thang.

Spenny

Spencer K. C. Norcross                                Spenny@aol.com
Haverhill, Mass. USA
===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===
1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine

Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway!
What will they think of next!

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Date: 14 Sep 94 08:27:22 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Strange Land Rover

Soren:

That was probably one of the contract land rovers built in Portugual under
License.  They have slightly different grilles, slightly different body-work
and, I believe, a rounded windshield like you describe.  I don;t have a picture
in front of me, though, so I can't remember their design for sure.

If the "movie" was made in Spain or Portugual, there's a good chance that is
what it was.

Cheers, 

R. P. Reid

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 05:58:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: mail vs. usenet solution?

On Wed, 14 Sep 1994, Roger Sinasohn wrote:

> Maybe that's the best solution -- Post the digests to a newsgroup on a 
> daily basis.  That way, those who prefer newsgroups can do that, those who 
> prefer e-mail can still do that.  

I agree, that way we can accommodate both types of readers.  I see an 
advantage in that Land Rovers will get more exposure --since anyone on 
the net can listen in on the traffic (I had a difficult time myself 
locating this group, it appears to be one of the best kept secrets!).
And, digest people can have the 'noise' filtered out by a quasi-moderator.

Do we have to get an approval from 'lro@team.net' to do this??  Are there
questions of copyright, or privacy in that some digest people may not want
to have their names and email addresses broadcast throughout the universe?
Will people start to use CB type 'handles' to remain anonymous?  Should we 
ask the digest email handlers to post to a group, or should we have
one of the recipients echo his/her email as a posting?

Out of context question: How is it that some people have already responded
to email in the digest containing the original posting?  I get the digest
only once a day, are they getting echos or is the mail posted somewhere
already for everyone to read?

--Michael

  Michael Carradine    Carradine Studios / Architecture Development Planning
  cs@crl.com           PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA      Tel 510-254-3324

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Date: 14 Sep 94 09:46:17 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Strange Land Rover on TV

Soeren Vels writes:

 >the german Sat1.  The film seemed to be an adult movie of an extremely bad
 >quality and my thumb prepared to work the remote control again.  But
 >suddenly i saw a very strange vehicle.  It seemed to be a normal dirt-brown
 >sIII 109 cab conversion, but it had seat tank (filler in the center like

Dirt is the word...
Yeah, I encountered that film some time ago! Seems to be part of Sat-TV's
regular repertoire of sleaze they recycle every so often. There were these
couples in an open Land Rover that had a break-down somewhere in a kind of
desert (looked like southern Spain to me...) because this twit of a driver
was fooling around with one of the gals next to him, let go of the
steering wheel and ran the Rover up against a cliff, busting the radiator,
right? And after this mishap the actors began jumping all over the Rover,
engaging in activities that, since this is not an adult CB-band, I won't
elaborate on further ;-D  ... after all that's the logical thing to do
when you break down in the desert and you're "in the heat" so to speak...

 >Could be a very late sIII but the ''actors'' clothes looked like late '70
 >style and the rover didn't look brand new, so to speak.

What clothes??  -  Oh, you mean at the start of the film ...

Anyway, like I said, that landscape strongly resembled the spanish Extremadura
region, or it could have been on one of the (spanish) Canary Islands
where you also find Sahara-like patches of desert. And this would explain
the strange looks of that supposedly S.III 109 Land Rover: It was neither
a Series III nor a classical 109 but...   a spanish-built SANTANA ! :-o
In Spain they have built Land Rover look-alikes (with license from Solihul)
since a long time. All they get from England is the (leaf- or coil-sprung)
109" rolling chassis w/axles, motor & tranny; _everything_ else, body
panels, dashboard, instruments, windscreen, roof, seats, electric system
etc. is <Made in Spain>. These SANTANA-"Rovers" are, even nowadays, made
to *look* like 109ers, and from a distance are hardly distiguishable from
originals. But in fact and in detail they are _not_ *real* Land Rovers,
and what you saw in that film - the vehicle! - was precisely a SANTANA.
This cludgy 109-replica has but one advantage: It's * mucho mas cheapo *
than a "gee-new-wine" Defender. Still, nothing a _real_ (did I hear
'hardcore'?) Land Rover enthusiast would drive in, let alone ...
(Nothing like an instructive educational movie now and then, eh?)

Happy channel smurfing - er, surfing!

Stefan

<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>
LROC of Hessen

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 09:59:04 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Various subjects

>From the FWIW department:

Regarding springs, somewhere, sometime in the past, I saw an advert for a
plastic-like sheet or strip that one would place between the spring leaves
when reassembling.  Supposedly, this made them work better (less friction
when flexed) plus longer life due to reduced rust.  Spring work is hot,
hard, heavy work...something you don't want to do too often.... On one of
the shackle bolts, I had to put a 6' cheater bar on he end of a 2' breaker
bar...then jump on the cheater bar...figured I was putting 800+ ft. lbs. of
torque on it (damn good ad for Craftsman sockets, though).

Bill - you should appreciate this:  Stratus Computers gets mentioned in
Chapter Two of Tom Clancy's new book "Debt of Honor".  I just started it
last night.

"Deadlock" was on the telly last evening as well.  Jewel thief Rutger Hauer
is imprisioned in a futuristic prison without walls, as all the inmates
wear explosive devices around their necks.  Rutger and female accomplice
make their escape in a IIa 109 ambulance...chased by two other IIa 109's.
And that 109 someone saw in a flaming fall...its from Sly Stalone's newest,
"The Specialist."  In that one scene, a drug lord gets ambushed and blown
off a bridge.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 08:35:43 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Brakes

In message <9409131711.AA01083@elephino.eng.sun.com> William L. Grouell writes:
> > Having accidently tried an 88 master brake cylinder on 109 brakes...Do not 
> > use> this combination unless you have a good safety harnes, are well 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
>  If done correctly, this IS a nice improvement. Of course, it is possible to
> screw it up and hurt your self.  
> R, bg  Just a dumb, old, mechanical engineer.

Oh well, as long as it works for you. 

Having a 109 with 109 front & rear brakes, 88 duel power assisted master 
cylinder, tightly adjusted brakes freshly bled, I had to pump the brakes three 
or four times to get ANY braking at all.  Switching to a 109 master cylinder 
fixed everything. 

I still suggest matching the master cylinder to the wheel cylinders instead of 
using a master cylinder designed for use with smaller wheel cylinders.  I 
suspect there was a reason they used a bigger capacity master cylinder with the 
109 brakes.

Just a dumb, old, ex-quality engineer

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
LINK: TWAKEMAN              
408-974-2344                         TR3A - TS75519L, 
                       MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 11:51:01 -0400
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: Sleaze Rover

Stefan Writes:

none

Dirt is the word... Yeah, I encountered that film some time ago! Seems to be 
part of Sat-TV's regular repertoire of sleaze they recycle every so often. 
There were these couples in an open Land Rover that had a break-down 
somewhere in a kind of desert (looked like southern Spain to me...) because 
this twit of a driver was fooling around with one of the gals next to him, 
let go of the steering wheel and ran the Rover up against a cliff, busting 
the radiator, right? And after this mishap the actors began jumping all over 
the Rover, engaging in activities that, since this is not an adult CB-band, I 
won't elaborate on further ;-D  ... after all that's the logical thing to do 
when you break down in the desert and you're "in the heat" so to speak... 

 >Could be a very late sIII but the ''actors'' clothes looked like late '70 
 >style and the rover didn't look brand new, so to speak. 

What clothes??  -  Oh, you mean at the start of the film ... 

none

HMMMMMM....  Sounds like a good successor to our old "Gods" cult movie.  
Might be good to screen at a rally... show us how to use our tools & 
lubricants & such.  Wonder what it was called?
  
The God's Must Be Horny?  
The Gonads Must be Crazy?  
John Holmes in Kenya?  
Thelma & Louise & Peter North in Zimabwe?  
Steve Denis: An Authorized Biography? 

Bill :-D

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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Brakes
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 16:59:25 BST

> In message <9409131711.AA01083@elephino.eng.sun.com> William L. Grouell writes:
> > > Having accidently tried an 88 master brake cylinder on 109 brakes...Do not 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 44 lines)]
> 408-974-2344                         TR3A - TS75519L, 
>                        MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561
I agree FWIW.Stands to reason,really.Surely you need the bigger master
cylinder to shift the required amount of hydraulic fluid into the bigger
slave cyls?Or is this an over-simplistic viewpoint?
Not even an engineer,just an old fashioned mechanic:-)

Cheers
Mike Rooth

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 08:53:26 -0800
From: jfhess@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (John Hess)
Subject: mainly Palo Alto All British

Hi all,

While in england, I stopped by motorbooks and picked up a couple of Land
Rover books (to learn more about the beasts) plus a book of cartoons
featuring everyones favorite vehicle.  This book is call "petes second book
of Land Rover cartoons" and is written by Pete Chilcott.  In hindsight, not
a good L2.99 spend.  Howvever, I will put it in an envelope and mail it out
for someone else to read.  I figure that if you send me your snail mail
address, I will compile a list, print it out and include it with the book. 
This way, after someone reads the cartoons, he/she can mail it to the next
person on the list. Of course, if this is a old book that everyone has
seen, I'll get no replies!  OTOH, all it costs is postage to spread the
thing around.

Second, noone has commented on the All British meet in Palo Alto.  I drove
the Tiger down with another wanna be Land Rover Owner from Davis, Walt
Swain.  Walt is tall and had a sore knee, bad combination for the Tiger.  I
haven't talked to him but I hope he can walk again.  I/we got to see a good
mix of old and new rovers, including both defenders and discoveries.  Dom
Dias (from LROA) showed up with the Camel trophy 110  His son spent the
entire time up on top, playing on the rack, clinbing up and down the
ladder;  exactly the thing my son would be doing!   Uncle Roger (from S.F.)
was there with Indy 1.  Brad Blevins, John Kirn and Lynn Helm from LROA
were there also.  Good because their adventures are often written up in the
newsletter( Aluminum Workhorse). I met a lurker who reads the digest on
AOL, Eric with a NADA 109.  Talked awhile with him and relayed that Robert
Davis ( a friend of Sandy Grice) also likes the 6 cyl petrol engine. Eric's
vehicle is very nice, almost hard to believe that it has been off road, but
he says he uses it!  Vance Chin brought his very muddy 88.  William Carter,
from berkeley showed up without his 109. Scotty, a local land rover
guru/mechanic wasn't present and neither was terriann. I'm sure I'm missing
lots of people from sheer ignorance, after all, I don't have a rover and
have just been hanging around for a year or so. All in all, very nice to
become acquainted with people I have seen on the net and/or in the LROA
newsletter. If I missed you or you have insight that I missed, fill the
group in?

John Hess, PhD                    Phone me 916 752 8420
Dept of Human Anatomy             FAX me 916 752 8520
University of Calif               Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu
Davis, CA                         or leave me alone, your choice.

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Subject: Re: Usenet
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 13:12:06 -0500

Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com> writes:

> If scanning messages is the problem with the mail list, I may have a 
> solution.  (Actually, it's Teriann's idea, but I'm always happy to take the 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> mail, send off mail you've written off-line, and log off.  
> You can then read and reply at your leisure off-line.  

        We are getting a bit off topic, but if you can arrange a uucp
        feed from your work site, I can supply the required software
        to do all of this.  The cost of the software is free.  The
        RoverWeb could even ftp the stuff (Waffle) and make it available.
        You are proposing something that may require SLIP, NNTP, or
        something else fancy that requires other garbage to inhabit
        your pc at home (and anything that requires windoze should
        be avoided for a phethora of reasons, technical included).
        The stuff I am bringing up here requires basic ascii screens,
        primitive hardware (an original IBM pc would suffice), and
        software that is basically ports of UNIX software, so it is
        also available on the Macintish side of things in a different
        form.

        Rgds,

        Dixon

--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry,            |    Ottawa Valley Land Rovers
Nepean, Ontario, Canada       |    1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean
(OVLR's InterNet site)        |    Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 13:07:15 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: mainly Palo Alto All British

In message <199409141644.JAA11183@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu> John Hess writes:

>. Scotty, a local land rover
> guru/mechanic wasn't present and neither was terriann. I'm sure I'm missing
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> newsletter. If I missed you or you have insight that I missed, fill the
> group in?

Hopefully Scotty was in the shop fixing my Land Rover.  Palo Alto is probably 
about 4 days walk from my house.  Its the first meet I have missed since I 
started going in '86.

Scotty has not gone to the meet since Jean (his recently deceased wife) was 
diagnosed with cancer.  When I asked him if he was going he just said no, the 
last time he went was with Jean.  I wouldn't expect him to be going there for a 
few years at least.

Glad you had a good time, wish I were there

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
LINK: TWAKEMAN              
408-974-2344                         TR3A - TS75519L, 
                       MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561

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Date: 14 Sep 94 17:25:05 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Add-A-Leaf Saga Part III

Greetings:

In the last two installments, we have examined how to remove the spring packs
from the vehicle and how to disassemble the packs, insert the leaves and
reassemble the spring packs.  Now, you're ready to re-hang the springs on the
vehicle and complete the reassembly.

As safety has been an ongoing theme in this series, keep in mind that you wil
once again be under the vehicle and working with some parts that have th
potential to do you great bodily harm.  Remember to check your work regularly
and be careful!

There is also one more step that you will need to take to the springs now that
you have re-assembled them -- that is to cut off the approximately 2 extra
inches of bolt that is protruding from the bottom of the spring pack.  Cut this
off with a hacksaw leaving about a quarter-inch protruding beyond the nut.

Now that the spring packs are in good shape, the first step in re-hanging your
springs is to locate them under the vehicle.  Before I removed them I marked
each spring (with liquid 
paper, a great marking tool),  putting an arrow pointing toward the front.
Though I did not mention it in the first installment (where I should have) keep
in mind that the left and right springs are NOT interchangeable.  The springs on
the drivers side have more camber to them to make up for extra weight.  Since I
took the springs off one at a time, this did not matter, but if you plan on
taking them all off a once, you need to mark the springs appropriately.   Also,
though the springs will fit on either direction when new (they are symmetrical)
I made sure they went on the same way they came off, since they have likely
bent, stretched, fatigued, etc.  I doubt they are as symmetrical now as they
were when they were new.

Once the spring is under the vehicle, connect the spring to the shackles under
the vehicle.  In other words, when connecting the front spring, start with the
shackle toward the rear of the vehicle and when installing a rear spring,
connect first on the shackle toward the front of the vehicle.  This is because
the spring will need to be pulled and maneuvered to line up with the other
shackle and it will be much easier to do this from in front of or behind the
vehicle as opposed to working under it.

Next, take one of your floor jacks and raise the axle (previously supported on
jack stands) slightly (1-2 inches) so that it is out of your way.  You should
leave the jack stand in place for safety.

Once the spring is connected on one end, you will need to raise it up toward the
shackle at the very front or very rear of the vehicle.  Do this with your other
hydraulic jack, placed at the center of the spring where the bottom plate will
ultimately go.  

Once the spring is raised up,  you will immediately notice that it is about 2-3
inches too short for the spring eye to line up with the holes in the shackle.
This is in part because you have, in inserting the add-a-leafs, increased the
camber of the spring, thereby decreasing the straight-line distance between the
eyes.  However, even without the add-a-leafs, the springs will likely be a bit
short.

The problem you now have is that, unless you happen to be Arnold Schwarznegger,
you won't be able to pull those springs the last 2'3 inches to line them up with
the shackle holes.  Literally, it takes hundreds of pounds of pull and is
impossible without considerable mechanical advantage.  This is where your third
jack comes in.

I used the original equipment jack from the Land Rover and found it ideally
suited to the task.
So, with the axle raised out of the way with one floor jack and the other floor
jack raising up the spring, I put the third jack on top of the spring pack with
the ram resting on the frame.  The location for this jack should be about
half-way between the axle and the yet-unfastened shackle.

Now, you have some serious mechanical advantage.  Use the jacks together to
locate the spring eye in the shackle eye.  You are, in essence, flattening out
the spring using the jacks.  You will want to raise the floor jack supporting
the spring and the Land Rover jack sitting on the spring little by little until
you literally maneuver the eyes to line up.  It takes a couple of minutes, but
is quite easy once you get the hang of it.  You may, at times, have to back off
on one jack and raise more with the other, but you should be able to line up the
holes with no trouble.

Just a reminder about safety here... you are working with some serious stresses
and if you have been careless in your jack placement or are going too fast, you
can have a nasty accident.  Be careful!

Once the eyes are lined up, you can put the shackle bolts thorugh the hole and
tighten them up.  Remember that the inside shackles are threaded, so you can't
simply hammer the bolts all the way through.  In fact it might take a little
additional maneuvering of the jacks to line them up perfectly and turn in the
shackle bolt.

Once the shackles are all bolted up, slowly release the floor jack supporting
the spring and be ready to remove the Land Rover jack from on top of the spring
as soon as tension is off it.

With the spring hung back on the vehicle, you are almost ready to lower the axle
onto the locating pin on top of the spring pack.  This also takes both your
floor jacks as it is unlikely that you will be able to simply lower the axle
(that you had raised out of the way earlier) and have it settle right on the
locating pin.

First, though, you will need to put the spring bottom plate back in place (and
in the case of the rear-axle, re-locate the brake-line plate you removed from
the spring).  Once the bottom plate is lined up and in place, put your floor
jack under the plate, taking care not to cover up any of the holes that the
U-bolts will protrude through when you put them in place.

Again, you will use both floor jacks in concert to raise the spring and lower
the axle until they line up.  As with the shackles, you may have to do some
tricky raising and lowering, but you'll be able to line up the axles with the
locating pins with little effort.

Now that the axle is sitting in the right location on the spring, it's time to
put the u-bolts back in place and tighten them down.  If you have removed the
u-bolts entirely off the vehicle (I left them hanging on the axle), remember
that not all are identical.  There is one longer u-bolt that goes on the front
axle nearest the differential, where the diameter is larger.  Also, the front
and rear u-bolts are not the same length.

Also, you'll remember when you disassembled the u-bolts that there were clips on
the nuts to keep them from turning loose.  With the added thickness of the
add-a-leafs, the clips will likely no longer fit as the u-bolts will be only
just long enough to thread the nuts all the way on.  You have a couple of
options here.  The best and most rugged is probably to have a spring shop make
you a new set of u-bolts a half-inch longer.  I have heard about $8-10 per
u-bolt to have them bent.  This way, you'll have enough extra space to put a new
set of clips on to secure the nuts.  Since I am going to have the body off in
the spring, however, and don't plan any rugged driving until then, I left the
clips off and used Locktite to secure the nuts.  It's not the ideal solution,
but since I am doing a full chassis-resto in the spring I'll have a set of
u-bolts custom-made then and can live without the clips until then.  Some will
raise the point that the bolts will be fine without the clips, but I feel that
Land Rover put them there for a reason, so I will go back to them.

When you tighten the nuts on the u-bolts, too, always go in an x-pattern and
tighten them gradually down.   Make sure they are tight and, even if you are
using clips on the u-bolts, use Locktite or a similar threadlocker.

If you are working on a front axle, you are about ready to put the wheel on and
move on to the next axle.  Check all the bolts to see that they are tight and
inspect the brake lines to see that you have not damaged one during the
operation.  It's also a good time to take a look at your brakes and hub seals,
etc... as long as you have your tools out!

If you are working on the rear axles, you still have to re-attach the check
strap and, if you have removed it, you will have to reattach the brake line to
the plate that fits between the springs and the axles.  When you go to attach
the check strap, you will find that, because of the additional spring camber,
the strap will not reach the holes if the springs are not somewhat compressed.
I considered looking for a longer check strap, but realized that the check strap
was a certain length for a reason (ie, not to let the axke drop too far down)
and so I opted to compress the spring and attach the check strap in its original
location.  This means that when you jack the vehicle up by the frame, the strap
will be under tension, but it will keep your axle from over-extending.  When
there is weight on the axle, it is loose, as intended.

Now you are ready to reinstall the wheel, remove the blocks and jack stands and
gently lower it to the ground.  You should notice a slight lift on whichever
corner you have completed.
By the way, resist the temptation to go anywhere (like for a well-earned cold
beverage) until you have done both springs on one axle.  I did not drive mine,
but I have a feeling that handling would not be very safe with one corner jacked
up!

In tomorrow's last installment, I'll run down parts numbers, prices, and driving
impressions.  I'll also give you a rundown on the aesthetics of the vehicle with
the new springs -- bottom line is that it looks good and only an expert would
know it was modified.

Thanks to everyone who has been following the series and who has provided
outstanding feedback.  As I have mentioned, I plan on submitting this to the
Aluminum Workhorse as a tech article and would love to hear any feedback on
things that might be confusing or need clairification.

Thanks and regards, 

R. Pierce Reid
'62 Ser IIa Military  (The Sgt. Major)

"I'm just an analog guy muddling through in a digital world."

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: mail vs. usenet solution?
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 18:39:58 EDT

> I agree, that way we can accommodate both types of readers.  I see an 
> advantage in that Land Rovers will get more exposure --since anyone on 
> the net can listen in on the traffic (I had a difficult time myself 
> locating this group, it appears to be one of the best kept secrets!).

Best kept secrets only remain that way if they are.  As was pointed out
by others earlier, greater exposure puts us at risk of having every
4x4 yahoo and his cousins send in flame mail (and you all thought I
had poor eticate!).  As it is (or has become, but only recently) traffic
on this list is barely managable-and several worthy members have recently
bailed.  More are sure to follow if things get out of hand.  Perhaps a
limited amount of "local" newsgroups will do no harm, but if we blast
our horns throughout cyberspace the repercussions could be devastating.

my $.02.

rd/nige

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 17:26:45 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: Brakes

> I agree FWIW.Stands to reason,really.Surely you need the bigger master
> cylinder to shift the required amount of hydraulic fluid into the bigger
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> Cheers
> Mike Rooth
   As I indicated in my first response to the question, "Will this work"; the
trade off of using the small master is more braking power at the expense of
more frequent brake adjustments. The smaller bore master is just like using a
longer lever to move a rock. More travel is required, but more is force applied to the load. There are six slaves to move with the 109 system, 4 on the 88, so
the volume required is not just due to the larger dia of the slaves. If the
brakes are adjusted so that the shoes hit the drums before the pedal hits the
floor, you got brakes. I do *not* have 109 rear brakes, but that is a minor
factor since I can get a hard pedal at the top of the travel.
  I am unable to explain why others have been unable to make this configuation
work, but I can assure you that it does work, and very well.
  If you drove my Rover, you would only notice that the brakes are better than
other, stock, Rovers. You would *not* be wildly pumping the pedal as you hit
the wall. The only dents in my Rover are from a Honda that changed lanes into
me to avoid rear ending some other fool at 50 mph. My front bumper tore off the
passenger door of the Honda and thew it down the road. Dented my front wing,
no damage to my bumper.
 
R, bg 

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Date: 14 Sep 94 20:28:02 EDT
From: Leslie Stutsman <100042.254@compuserve.com>
Subject: Land Rovers available

Nearing completion of reburbishment

A 88" Short wheel base (1961) Series II a - Chassis very good to excellent.
 Bronze green (enamel paint) body, creme top. 60,000 miles - recently
reconditioned gas engine. New clutch, battery, oil pump, front road springs, brake
pipes, shock absorbers, Solex carburettor, etc. Spare tire on bonnet with (new)
Land Rover logo tire cover. All new grey carpeted interior throughout,
soundproofed, with rubber mat payload in rear. Free wheeling hubs, 2 rear
spotlights, (5) 600X16 tires, new Land Rover logo mudflaps.  7 seater - all new
deluxe Land Rover black front seats (3 in front) with 2 inward facing bench seats
in back.  New rubber seals on all doors. Rear Safari door.  Antenna - wired for
radio. New front door tops/bottoms and footwells. New workshop manual (still
sealed) & parts catalogues supplied.

109" Long Wheel base (1968) Series II Safari station wagon.  Chassis 
very good ++  Totally reconditioned engine and gearbox.  Tropical 
Safari Roof with arctic windows. Refurbishment to begin soon.  Many of 
the same above features.

If not previously mentioned, bull bars, additional windows, 
etc can be added quite reasonably.  If you are interested in these email
me at Compuserve 100042,254 (or see you at the British Invasion rally)

Cheers

Leslie

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 18:00:24 -0700
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Portland Meet

I don't think I am going to be able to find time to really summarize the 
Portland meet properly, the way I had planned.  I do want to mention a few 
highlights and random thoughts, though.

It was wonderful to meet so many nice folks and see all those great Rovers.  
Just wish I were a lot better at keeping names, faces, and associated 
vehicles straight.  Those not mentioned here did not necessarily make less 
of an impression.  Actually, Bennett (my son who accompanied me) and I came 
away with few, if any, bad impressions.  The whole show was very well and 
professionally run and left you trying to juggle to figure what you were 
going to be doing, as you could not possibly do it all.

One highlight was meeting John and Phyllis Rostykus with their Defender 
90-in-a-box!  Had read their thread with great interest but didn't expect to 
run into them in Portland.

Another was seeing two beautifully restored Dormobiles (Tony and Linda 
Starbird's and Doug Shipman's, I think).  I took a Dormobile top and traded 
it to Gord'n Perrot (for a Tenson winch).  Others were certainly looking for 
Dormobile tops (wish I had had more to sell).  Another fellow(?) seemed to 
know of one available, but I can't remember who he (or maybe she, even) was. 
 Right next to the Dormobiles at the show was a very nice and complete 
Land-Rover fire tender, I didn't catch the year of manufacture or the 
owner's name (nice fellow, though, letting kids get in and work the siren).

Really appreciate Rasmussen Land-Rover folks from Portland providing new 
vehicles and tireless drivers to take people around the off-road course.  
The rain Friday night and intermittently Saturday made that event a lot more 
fun and, I think, made the show day seem a lot more British. 

Noticed a high percentage of Land-Rovers equipped with serious winches 
(don't recall seeing any capstan winches but not sure).  Serious tires, too 
(even a few Michelin XCLs--pant, pant).  A note for those of us with 88s 
equipped with 15" wheels.  As an alternative to fitting 16" wheels, a couple 
of owners (at least) at the show had fitted B.F. Goodrich Mud-Terrain 
radials in 33x9.50x15 tires.  About the same width and over-all diameter as 
235/85x16 and cost close to the same without necessitating cost of new 
wheels.  15" wheels are wider than most of the 16s readily available, too, 
at 6" (old 88 16" wheels are 5" wide and 109 wheels are normally 5.5" wide.  
Really too narrow IMHO for 235s but the 5.5s are O.K. for 7.50s).  Folks 
with those tires seemed to be happy with them.

I think the prize for number of Land-Rovers brought by one family would go 
to the Perrotts of Seattle.  I'm not sure, but believe that Gord'n, 
Stephanie, and Gord'n's mother each drove one.  Stephanie was towing a 
military utility trailer, one was towing an 80" Series I on a car trailer, 
and somehow Gord'n's beautifully turned-out coil-sprung 88 
special-under-construction also got there. Gord'n's mom, incidentially, was 
driving the only lightweight present.

The most unusual Land-Rover, though, had to be the Series II air-portable 
and flotable 109" brought by Andre (I didn't catch the last name) from B.C.  
Never thought I'd get to see one of those.

No forward-controls; bummer.

A number of Series Is, including a 107 (or 109) pick-up and a nice grey 
station wagon.

Lots of interesting camping adaptations, too.  I didn't find time to really 
check that many of them out, though.  One which certainly made an impression 
because it was simple, easily replicated, and handy, was John Benham's 
shower set-up.  Just an RV on-demand pump, lengths of garden hose, various 
adapters and fittings available at any hardware store, and a large pan of 
water heated on a Coleman stove.  Also had a frame for a tarp which hooked 
to the side of his Rover for privacy.

I must comment that I noticed that with over 100 Land-Rovers present and all 
those wonderful folks present, it is sad to note that Mr. Charles Kellog 
seemed to have no part in the scene.  He had his three magnificent and, of 
course, astronomically overpriced Land-Rovers to show and--I can't imagine 
how--sell.  One fellow asked the price of one and was told $50,000!  On 
another one (I presume similarly priced) I noted the standard used-car 
sticker where must be checked "As-is" or "Warranty" and noted that he 
actually dared to check "As-is"!!  Get real!  For those prices one should 
get full roadside service, anywhere in the world, for life!  I have heard 
all sorts of bad stories about those who have dealt with him, both for 
vehicles and for parts.  My one experience, years ago, was that I called to 
ask some prices, got his answering machine, and he returned my 
call--Collect!  Still, my point is:  Whatever drives him, it seems sad that 
he has so alienated himself when he should be a part.  If his self-valuation 
(reflected by his prices and other indicators) were more real, perhaps he 
wouldn't be left out.  Enough.

Several polished Land-Rovers (no paint on aluminum).  Now Bennett wants to 
do that to one of ours.  Hmmm.  I don't know.  Partial to military paint 
schemes meself (tread lightly, ya know).

The camping was great.  About 20-25 Land-Rovers at camp the first night and 
more than 40 the second (Saturday night, when CK also camped but not in the 
camp area with all the others, hey, even some of the non-Land-Rover folks 
who camped felt comfortable to join us but not CK).  The bonus surprise of 
this scene was the Starbirds (who usually host the camp-out at their place) 
put on a really delicious breakfast of hot cakes, sausages, and juice for 
all the Land-Rover campers.  Unbelievable, huh?

The best part of the camping was the around the notcampfire talks each night 
until late hours.  You could wander from group to group and glean all sorts 
of wisdom, humor, and conviviality.  Great, just great!!  

At these talks I heard some juicy advance rumors about forthcoming 
Land-Rover models in the U.S. (from a well-placed source).  There is to be a 
four-door Defender 90 which will of course be exempt from the 25% duty which 
has in large measure determined the high price.  The four-door will have 
only a 2.5% duty and is therefore supposed to have a base price of $23,000.  
Still a lot of money but much better.  The Discovery is to get the traction 
control, a four-channel version, no less!  I asked if the speed limiter (to 
30 mph, as I recall) applied to the Range Rover version of the traction 
control would be eliminated but did not get an answer (need it to work at 
all speeds to guard against the black-ice demons of the interstates).

Will post again if I think of anything especially important that I forgot to 
mention this time.
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4]
[ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net              Phone: (707) 485-7220 ]
[ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway!  ]
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------
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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 02:35:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Brakes

And so it continues on....
> > In message <9409131711.AA01083@elephino.eng.sun.com> William L. Grouell
none
writ> 
> es:
> > > > Having accidently tried an 88 master brake cylinder on 109
none
brakes...Do n> 
> ot 
> > > > use> this combination unless you have a good safety harnes, are well

> > > > insured and 
> > > > don't mind dents in the front of your Land Rover.  
> > > > Consider a 109 master brake cylinder a must for converting to 109
none
front > 
> > > > brakes
> > > > TeriAnn Wakeman 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> > > > TeriAnn Wakeman 
> > >   I'll keep this in mind next time I use my brakes and they work
perfectly> 
> .
> > >  If done correctly, this IS a nice improvement. Of course, it is
> > > > Consider a 109 master brake cylinder a must for converting to 109
possible > 
> to
> > > screw it up and hurt your self.  
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> > Oh well, as long as it works for you. 
> > Having a 109 with 109 front & rear brakes, 88 duel power assisted master

> > cylinder, tightly adjusted brakes freshly bled, I had to pump the brakes
thr> 
> ee 
> > or four times to get ANY braking at all.  Switching to a 109 master
cylinder> 
> > fixed everything. 
> > I still suggest matching the master cylinder to the wheel cylinders
> > > R, bg  Just a dumb, old, mechanical engineer.
none
instead > 
> of 
> > using a master cylinder designed for use with smaller wheel cylinders.
 I 
> > suspect there was a reason they used a bigger capacity master cylinder
with > 
> the 
> > 109 brakes.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)]
> Cheers
> Mike Rooth
 
Just thought I'd like to quote everyone too, ad nauseum.  |-]
Yes, yes.. the wheel cylinders ARE bigger..and there's MORE of them.. so ya
gotta pump more juice, so the master cylinder is bigger too. Oy!
Matter of fact, the whole truck is bigger, and HEAVIER!!

Ok, Ok, Sarcastic mode off. Sorry...

  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)
                           Complete with 88 brakes..
                           none of that foreign muck!

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