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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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1 Leslie from Florida & Li107The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
2 "thomas r. coron" [tcoro10infamous Land Rover product owners
3 DEBROWN@srp.gov 37infamous Land Rover product owners
4 "TeriAnn Wakeman" [twak39Re: LR Reliability
5 brabyn@skivs.ski.org (Jo24Re: infamous Land Rover product owners
6 mcdpw@pacific.pacific.ne39Rover snobs
7 Jon Humphrey [jh5r+@andr12Re: report on US National Rally
8 Joseph Broach [PC7170@UT25 Rattles and Rumblings from Sid
9 Bruce Harding [Bruce_Har14Rattles and Rumblings from Sid
10 "R. Pierce Reid" [70004.26Adding Leaves
11 Mike Fredette [mfredett@21[not specified]
12 "Russell G. Dushin" [dus47Re: infamous Land Rover product owners
13 David John Place [umplac25Re: Rattles and Rumblings from Sid
14 David John Place [umplac20Re: Adding Leaves
15 brabyn@skivs.ski.org (Jo12Re: infamous Land Rover product owners
16 Craig Murray [craigp@ocs18Re: wird land rovers
17 FHYap@aol.com 11Oil consumption for the 3.9l
18 LANDROVER@delphi.com 32Re: What is Happening
19 LANDROVER@delphi.com 13Re: Adding Leaves
20 LANDROVER@delphi.com 14Re: Land Rover Camping
21 LANDROVER@delphi.com 42Re: Rattles and Rumblings from Sid


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Date: 25 Aug 94 07:52:56 EDT
From: Leslie from Florida & Liverpool <100042.254@compuserve.com>
Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

_______________________________________________________________

We specialise in locating and exporting pre-67 (gas) and pre-76 (diesel) Land
Rovers from the UK to the US.  Because there is such a wide variety of choice
in
vehicles out here, we can locate for you a restored/partly restored/ or
restorable
land rover and have it shipped to the States.

Because of the years (pre-67 and 76) that we are dealing with, we avoid the
timely and sometimes cost prohibitive changes to the vehicle that are required
by the EPA for new vehicles.  These older "classic" land rovers are
"grandfathered" and therefore should not need to meet any special
requirements.

Of the vehicles that we able to find, many will be in much condition than
their
1970's and 80's cousins.  Because of their age, the number of enthusiasts in
the
UK, and the (very inexpensive!) price of the parts, the series I, II, and IIa
have
been targeted for many a restoration project!  The Land Rover has the
destinction
of being a very easy vehicle to fix and restore, and thus many fine examples
are
available to choose from.

If you are seriously interested in locating a vehicle could you please email
us
this info:
                                                          `
    1) Are you interested in restored/ semi restored/ or restorable?
    2) What is the maximum $ you have to spend (including shipping/import
        duties/etc.) This will help us to determine what condition and what
        vehicle may suit your budget.
    3) What body type would you be interested in - Long wheel based (like 12
        seater types) or short wheel based (like renegade jeep type).  If you
tell
        us what you are going to use the vehicle for we can make
        recommendations.
    4) Any other info - we can arrange to have roof racks, etc installed
before
        shipping.
    5) Also have you had a Landy before!
    6) Address + tele#

An example of the type of vehicles we would have available:

Series I

1956  SWB petrol soft top (one owner!) original log book! very good condition
-
price $5000 shipped

1954  SWB petrol totally restored 1994.  Mint frame and body. Totally rewired.
Soft top, overdrive, and much more. All original documents. excellent
condition

1955  SWB Station Wagon (lots of seats!)  Inward folding back seats to allow
for
additional cargo space.   Free wheeling hubs. Straight body and good chassis.
-
price $5000 shipped

Series II (inc A+B)

1967 SWB Truck Cab with canvas back or full hard top.  39,000 original miles -
one owner.  Needs new tires. Chassis good and body excellent - price $5700
shipped.

1963 SWB Truck cab + canvas.  Totally restored 1992. Specialty seats. Big
tires
and free wheeling hubs. Very good/excellent Chassis and body - price $6200
shipped

1971 SWB Safari Station Wagon - diesel. Reconditioned engine with 18,000
miles. Inward folding back seats and free wheeling hubs.  Good body and
chassis. - price $5500 shipped

Series III

1975 SWB Diesel - fully restored - new crankshaft, gearbox, overdrive, free
wheeling hubs, new reconditioned engine, big 4WD tires, bull bar, auxilliary
lights. Mint chassis and body.- price $ 9990 shipped (a real head turner!)

Ex-Military Station Wagon SWB Diesel.  Nato green. XCL tires, overdrive,
unusual! Excellent chassis and body.- price $7990 shipped

1974 109" Safari Estate Diesel. Free wheeling hubs, 8000lb Ramsey winch,
Kenlow fan, roof rack, working lights. Good body and chassis. - price $6000
shipped

1975 LWB Diesel.   Over $7000 spend rebuilding. Excellent chassis, body,
engine, gearbox, brakes and steering . -Price $8200 shipped

1975 LWB Diesel.  New reconditioned engine. Very good chassis and body. -
price $6800 shipped

Cheers,

Leslie Stutsman Nick Ledingham
compuserve 100042,254

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From: "thomas r. coron" <tcoron@s850.mwc.edu>
Subject: infamous Land Rover product owners
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 9:25:51 EDT

  Add Rosanne Barr-Arnold to the list. Perhaps Range Rover owners
  shouldn't count, as they are frequently purchased by the
 "La-De-Da" crowd, who will never use them for their intended purpose.
  Excluding everyone on this list, of course :-).

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Date: Thu, 25 Aug 94 07:57:36 MST
From: DEBROWN@srp.gov
Subject: infamous Land Rover product owners

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist
       AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: infamous Land Rover product owners
Maybe Rosanne Barr-Arnold just wanted something that didn't sag when
she gets in it. :)

Only in jest....

   #=====#              "Never doubt that a small group of individuals
   |___|__\___           can change the world... indeed, it's the only
   |   |   |  |          thing that ever has."
"  "`O'""""`O'"                                          -Margret Mead
*** Reply to note of 08/25/94 06:34
=========================================================================
   Thu, 25 Aug 94 06:34:22 MST
          id AA14547; Thu, 25 Aug 1994 06:26:34 -0700
transfer.stratus.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA28638 for
<lro@stratus.com>; Thu, 25 Aug 1994 09:27:47 -0400
	(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA054611152; Thu, 25 Aug 1994 09:25:52 -0400
From: "thomas r. coron" <tcoron@s850.mwc.edu>
Subject: infamous Land Rover product owners
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 9:25:51 EDT
Cc: lro@stratus.com
24, 94 6:57 pm
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14]

  Add Rosanne Barr-Arnold to the list. Perhaps Range Rover owners
  shouldn't count, as they are frequently purchased by the
 "La-De-Da" crowd, who will never use them for their intended purpose.
  Excluding everyone on this list, of course :-).

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Date: Thu, 25 Aug 94 10:45:26 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: LR Reliability

In message <Pine.3.05.9408250211.A29140-c100000@inet.uni-c.dk> S|ren Vels 
Christensen writes:
                       
> You describe the sound as rattling. Two reasons comes to my mind.
> 1. He accidently put in a diesel ;-)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> shift _down_ to third as my syncro is gone. 
> BTW, before i ajust valves, i clean the exhaust valves the motorway way and
> the inlet valves the club soda way.

Soren
I wish it was that easy.  When the engine was new I frequently retightened the 
head and checked valve lash.  It even had 3 oil and filter changes in its first 
1000 miles.

The engine was a low milage 2.25 petrol from a series III that was 
professionally rebuilt.

Below 1000 RPM the engine sounds normal above that it starts to rattle (trans in
neutral).  The rattle tends to go away or lessen significantly under load in 
fourth gear. 

Sometimes while crusing it sounds rythmic like snoring.  The rattle goes upscale
with each beat then downscale.

The noise gets louder when the engine gets even a half quart low on oil.

Its driving me crazy

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
LINK: TWAKEMAN              
408-974-2344                         TR3A - TS75519L, 
                       MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561

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Date: Thu, 25 Aug 94 10:48:58 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  infamous Land Rover product owners

I object to the idea that Range Rover owners don't count; by the same logic
Jeep owners and other 4x4 owners don't count either since the vast majority
never get off the freeway. A higher percentage of Range Rover owners do go
off pavement than the percentage of other sport utility owners.

Also, I'm sure one reason all those Beverly Hills types buy them is they
KNOW it's the best off-road vehicle there is -- if it wasn't they wouldn't
buy it. 

While I'm on the subject, anyone who doesn't think Range Rovers count should
try keeping up with one in any other vehicle including Land Rover's other
offerings.

Sorry to raise my hackles in such a fashion -- I'm really a mild mannered guy!

John Brabyn
Mill Valley
California
89RR

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Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 11:53:58 -0700
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Rover snobs

It's not necessarily just the Range Rover types who sometimes lack the 
aficion. I have found a fair number of Land-Rover owners too, over the 
years, who aren't particularly friendly and think someone who wants to stop 
them just to talk Land-Rovers is wierd (OK, I admit that I'm wierd or at 
least, as TeriAnn so well expresses, seriously strange).

Today I was sitting in the lobby of a title company in "downtown" Ukiah, CA, 
waiting to talk to someone there.  Looking out the front window, I saw the 
most magnificent 109 I have seen in a long time.  It was sliding along in 
the stoplight traffic so I ran out, caught up, got the driver's attention, 
showed him the Land-Rover lapel badge on my photojournalist's vest to let 
him know that I was a Land-Rover owner/aficionado.  He just smiled 
semi-indulgently and kept going.  Damme! There was a parking space right 
there that he could easily have pulled into to at least exchange phone 
numbers or something, if he was in too big a hurry to talk right then.

I had never seen this rover before.  It was dusty but otherwise looked brand 
new.  It was a 109 Safari stationwagon, light green with limestone roof.  It 
may have had a roof rack, I can't remember.  It had a spare on the rear door 
with a gnarly mud-tread tyre on it.  Unfortunately, I didn't notice what 
kind of license plates it had.  The driver was young, maybe 30 or so, had 
long straight hair tied back, clean-shaved.  Like a rock star, perhaps.

Does this fellow or this Rover ring a bell with anyone on the net?  

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ Granville Pool                     | 52 80" Series I (gutted, project)  ]
[ mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net          | 59(?) 88" hardtop (parts)          ]
[ 2601 Road I, #0 ("Road-I-Land")    | 61(?) 88" Ser IIa sta wag (project)]
[ Redwood Valley, CA 95470           | 70 88" Series IIa "station wagon"  ]
[ (707) 485-7220                     | 73 88" Series III hardtop          ]
[ Land-Rover's first because         | 74 88" Series III hardtop (project)]
[ Land-Rovers last!                  | (?yr) Ausin Champ 4x4 (project)    ]  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 16:27:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: report on US National Rally

T.F. Congratulations on an excelent article. It must have been one fun week.

BTW how did your truck run with the not too kosher transmission?
I guess you made it.
There was some concern amongst the netters.
Later
Jon

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Date:         Thu, 25 Aug 94 16:26:48 LCL
From: Joseph Broach <PC7170@UTKVM1.UTK.EDU>
Subject:      Rattles and Rumblings from Sid

Hello,

      Sidney has a couple of the most annoying rattles as of late. Maybe
someone can help before they drive me crazy.

1. Engine is super-smooth at idle and up to 3000 rpm in neutral, but in
   gear anything above 2500 rpm and Sid has a pretty loud rattle from beneath.
   It seems to come from the drivetrain, possibly gearbox. Any guesses??

2. Suspension "pops" especially off-road negotiating turns. Is this normal?

3. In neutral there is a consistent low clatter, at first I was afraid
   it was in the engine, but later discovered that it was the clutch plate
   not fully disengaging from the flywheel (I think, i.e. pushing the clutch
   the slightest bit silences it.)

   Thanks!!!

                                  Rgds,
                                  Joseph   '67 ser IIa 88".....Sidney

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Date: Thu, 25 Aug 94 14:11:13 PST
From: Bruce Harding <Bruce_Harding@ccm2.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Rattles and Rumblings from Sid

      Sidney has a couple of the most annoying rattles as of late. Maybe
someone can help before they drive me crazy.

2. Suspension "pops" especially off-road negotiating turns. Is this normal?

     SPRING BUSHINGS!!!
     Bruce Harding
     70 Series IIA 88"
     Portland, OR

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Date: 25 Aug 94 17:39:37 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Adding Leaves

Greetings all:

Anyone out there have experience with the "Add a Leaf" kits available for the
88's?  I am in the process of putting on a set of 7.5 x 16 wheels and would also
like to add a slight lift (2") to the suspension to put in a little more
wheel-well clearance.  Nothing radical, but I recently checked out the new
Defender 90, and I really like the way they sit just a little bit higher.  

I am running stock springs... basically new and in perfect shape.  

I have added leaves before to other vehicles, so I am familiar with how to do
it, I just wondered if there were any special challenges with Land Rovers.

Also, can anyone recommend an "off the shelf" shock for an 88?  Any of the
standard U.S. companies (Gabriel, Monroe, etc) make a shock that will fit?
Rovers North has shocks, but last time I checked, they wanted about $58 a shock.
My current shocks are ok, but as long as I have the thing apart...

Thanks, 

R. P. Reid

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Subject: Re: Adding Leaves 
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 15:19:47 -0700
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

R. P. Reid
	Rancho 5000 shocks will fit, the part numbers are in 
any Rancho part catalog, a darn good shock.
	Don't know about the add-a-leaf thing but the 750x16
tires you're considering should fit with no problems as far 
as wheel well clearance goes, you may however have some rubbing
at full lock depending on the offset of the 16" rims you're
fitting. Different years and different models had slightly
different offsets. Charlie or Lannie at Rover's North could
give specifics. As far as how high it sits, since I already
have a Defender 90, I don't worry about it anymore. (maniacal
laughter here).
						Rgds
						Mike Fredette
						94 Defender 90
						60 Ser ll 109
						Portland, Oregon

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re:  infamous Land Rover product owners
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 94 19:01:03 EDT

> I object to the idea that Range Rover owners don't count; by the same logic
> Jeep owners and other 4x4 owners don't count either since the vast majority
> never get off the freeway. A higher percentage of Range Rover owners do go
> off pavement than the percentage of other sport utility owners.

I do believe that whomever posted the message you are referring to did
place a disclaimer excluding you and others like you who presumably
have some appreciation for what their RRs can do off road....I think
the point was that these celebrities NEVER had/have ANY intention of
getting their RRs wet, much less dirty.  Were their butts parked within
a dingy SI-III it might be a different story.....

> Also, I'm sure one reason all those Beverly Hills types buy them is they
> KNOW it's the best off-road vehicle there is -- if it wasn't they wouldn't
> buy it. 

Oh, please.  Let us be real.  These folks buy RRs for one and only one
reason.....IMAGE.  The fact that it is (one of) the most expensive 4X4s
out there makes the image all the more impressive (to them and the
"impressee").  You really think Opra or Janet Jackson NEED a 4x4???
Opra maybe.....perhaps what she really needs is the low range gearing!

> While I'm on the subject, anyone who doesn't think Range Rovers count should
> try keeping up with one in any other vehicle including Land Rover's other
> offerings.

Now, now.....lest you forget your rig was manufactured some twenty nine
years later than mine.....it really ought to kick Nigel's butt, shouldn't
it?  Will you still be smiling after all the dents and scratches, too?

> Sorry to raise my hackles in such a fashion -- I'm really a mild mannered guy!

So am I, and so was Clark Kent.

> John Brabyn
> Mill Valley
> California
> 89RR

Biting my lip in Putnam county, NY.
rd/nige

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Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 19:53:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Rattles and Rumblings from Sid

Ifyou slightly push the clutch and the noise goes away suspect the clutch
release bearing is a bit noisy.  Nothing to worry about however till it
really goes and you can't shift gears.  Something like when a diff gets
noisy.  As the Land Rover manual says if you can put up with the noise
don't bother changing it till it needs it.  Springs that pop on turns
sometimes can be fixed by putting lubricant between the leaf pieses.  Rust
sometimes keeps them from sliding easily and under stress they give way
suddenly and pop.  You might check to see that the little metal clips
which hold the springs together are still there and tight.  TerriAnne may
want to have a mechanic use a stethescope and listen for a bad wrist pin
or maybe the lifter rollers are not going up and down properly in the
guides.  There is a bolt that goes through the side of the block at each
lifter spot.  I once had the check wire break and the sleeve moved.  I
cought it before major damage, but it isn't a pretty thought.  Any noise
like you describe needs attention.  A two bit noise like that can quickly
become a thousand dollar repair bill if something lets go.  If the guy
rebuilt it and isn't looking at it by now I think I'd look somewhere else
for my repairs.  Fixing a Land Rover engine isn't brain surgery, and a
little care can make a very reliable engine.  Fial to tighten a chain
tensioner bolt or something and it can be over very quickly.  Dave VE4PN

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Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 20:09:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Adding Leaves

Gabriel makes a set of shocks for the Land Rover.  They are Gabriel Gas
Ryder  Shocks.  Numbers are G63494 and G63299.  The longer ones go on
the back.  I phined Monroe in the U.S. and they said they didn't list
shocks for Land Rover.  In Canada these shocks list for $53 each so
deduct about 40% on U.S. dollars and you have a rough price.  Dave
VE4PN. P.S. one of our members just bought a pair and I took it for a
ride.  The shocks are really superior to the regular non gas models.
On 25 Aug
1994, R. Pierce Reid wrote:

> Greetings all:
> Anyone out there have experience with the "Add a Leaf" kits available for the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)]
> Thanks, 
> R. P. Reid

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Date: Thu, 25 Aug 94 18:28:57 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  infamous Land Rover product owners

Sorry about my over-zealous defense of Range Rovers and their owners! I really
do understand the point about celebrities and non-appreciators!

No offense intended

John Brabyn
89RR

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From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 94 11:47:51 EST
Subject: Re: wird land rovers

> > I have heard of 80" 81" 86" 88" 100" 101" 107" 109" 110" 127" but never a
> > 108", I therefore would have to agree with you in that it was a typo!
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> </innocent look>
> <runs like hell!>

The 130 has a wheel base of 127", its just a ploy by the marketing people!

==============================================================================
Craig Murray                 				1955 Series 1 86"
LROC of Victoria Australia   				2.25 diesel (Soon!)
email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au

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From: FHYap@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 94 00:35:12 EDT
Subject: Oil consumption for the 3.9l 

How much oil does/should the 3.9l engine consume?  The LR dealer said 1 quart
per 2000 miles is ususal/not unusual.  Some RR  owners have told me they need
to add 1 quart between oil change while one LR mechanic said there should be
no oil consumption between oil change (at 3000 miles).  I would appreciate
your comments.

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 00:35:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: What is Happening

Howdy there Uncle Roger...

>> Anybody confirm the need for Rhino bars in rural New York?

>Isn't that where New Yorkers go to meet wild women?

>(Sorry, couldn't resist! :-)

Yes! Indeed and exactly!!. Living in "rural" New York (where the men are men
and the sheep are nervous!) I can confirm that Rhino bars do exist!!
Actually... I think that post had something to do with Range Rovers - I
don't really remember. I haven't met too many Range Rover drivers in rural
New York that ever leave the pavement. I'm in a pretty rural area, just
outside the Adirondack Park..

Oh yeah, you were collecting Rover names. Mine got named "Fern" because of
the previous owners idea of a camo paint job. He actually used ferns for
stencils. It doesn't look too bad actually and under the right conditions
almost dissappears in the woods. When my mother first saw it she said "But
it's got ferns on it.." and my reply was "Well it IS a furn' car.."

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)       

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 01:29:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Adding Leaves

Shocks.. Someone posted something about having Rancho RS-5000 shocks. Part
numbers #5163 up front and #5169 in the rear. Don't know about prices.
Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)       

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 00:35:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Land Rover Camping

Gee TeriAnn.. I really wonder just how much extra wind resistance you might
get with a roof rack. Look, the Land-Rover is about as aero-dynamic as an
upright player piano!! Whats a couple of more edges to catch the wind??
Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)       

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 01:28:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Rattles and Rumblings from Sid

On 25-AUG-1994 Joseph writes... 
> 1. Engine is super-smooth at idle and up to 3000 rpm in neutral, but in
>    gear anything above 2500 rpm and Sid has a pretty loud rattle from
beneath.> 
>    It seems to come from the drivetrain, possibly gearbox. Any guesses??

67?? Original engine? Rebuild? Need more input, Joe. What kind of rattle? It
time with the engine or faster/slower??

> 2. Suspension "pops" especially off-road negotiating turns. Is this
>    gear anything above 2500 rpm and Sid has a pretty loud rattle from
normal?
> 2. Suspension "pops" especially off-road negotiating turns. Is this

Mine does that too.. Never have found anything real obviously broken. I
suspect something like spring bushings.

> 3. In neutral there is a consistent low clatter, at first I was afraid
>    it was in the engine, but later discovered that it was the clutch plate
>    not fully disengaging from the flywheel (I think, i.e. pushing the
clutch
>    the slightest bit silences it.)
>    it was in the engine, but later discovered that it was the clutch plate

Sounds like maybe the throwout bearing is rattling. Putting pressure on it
by depressing the clutch (nothing worse than a depressed clutch) pedal
slightly makes me almost sure of it. Your clutch isn't sticking or slipping
is it? 

Sorry I can't be more help.. 
Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern)       
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