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From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: galvanised steel.
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 13:07:20 UNDEFINED

>His opinion is this, he'll galvanise anything you bring in, but wheels he 
>get a waiver signed on them.

>In his and his companies ipoion the cold formed rims are weakend and 
>embrittled when the heating up to 850 degrees takes place. As such they 
>do not the liability problems asssociated with disintegrating wheels in 
>motion.

>I have also talked to a number of other sage persons who have alot of 
>experience with galvanised material. Their view is that you can do it 
>without any problems like those mentioned above.

Why take the risk? Just Waxoyl em. No rust. No weakening.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 10:24:46 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Re: re: The Great Adventure

Mike Allen writes:
>is it possible for a normal person to obtain any of the Camel Trophy
>goodies directly from RJR...?

Me...*normal*?!?  I don't think *anyone* on this list is "normal!" :-)
Anyway, here's the info on RJR...no chance.  The Camel Trophy is currently
being sponsored/funded by Camel Trophy Adventure Wear marketed by Worldwide
Brands, a wholly-owned subsidiary of RJR (itself owned by Kohlberg, Kravis,
Roberts from that leveraged buyout several years ago...but that's another
story.  Pssst!...hey buddy,...wanna buy a multi-national tobacco company?)

Right now, the products are only marketed/sold in Europe.  My friend was
walking down a street in Germany somewhere and came across a storefront
with nothing but Camel Trophy stuff in the windows...boots (*expensive*
boots), jackets, shirts, whatnot.  They were *flying* off the shelves.
Like the early days of Land-Rover, the factories can't produce enough
merchandise to meet the demand.  So until they can build production (and
find some way to advertise back here in the good ol' US of A or at least
put an ad camapign together to counter that Marlboro 'Adventure Team'
crap), don't expect the stuff over here.   THE ONLY PLACE TO GET IT IS THE
MID-ATLANTIC RALLY!  And it's FREE! (How's that for an exclusive?)

As to the book, it's published by SQP S.A. (who??), of St. Suplice,
Switzerland (where??).  I don't have the pub. no.- it's inside and I'm not
going to open the sealed packaging.  How's that for dedication?

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: "Rostykus, John" <john@dspmail.Data-IO.COM>
Subject: Our new acquisition
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 94 09:52:00 PDT

For the last year I've been working on purchasing an ex-military 90".  It is 
now sitting in my garage, mostly assembled.  After all the research, 
preparation and horror stories I've heard, everything worked out a lot 
easier than I ever imagined.  Basically, it's a 1986 ex-RAF 2.5L diesel 90. 
 It's brush painted NATO green, has 20,000 km on the clock, and is in 
immaculate condition (at least for an 8 year old military vehicle).  It has 
NO rust.  I hope to have it running within the next week.

Are there any other pre-U.S. Defender 90 owners out there?  I'd like to 
compare notes...

John Rostykus
john@data-io.com

My wife, Phyllis, wrote up part of our adventure so far:
 -------------

The latest thing that has happened this summer has been something that 
actually sourced from last summer.  The amazing Anniversary Present from 
last summer was the Camper 110 Land Rover that we happened upon last year. 
 During the year, we sold it to a friend who moved to eastern Washington, a 
place it would really feel at home.  Since that time John's been planning 
another Great Land Rover experiment.

Basically, he called the guys he knew who knew guys who knew guys who could 
find a good, used diesel Land Rover in the UK. and figure out how to get all 
the parts for a diesel Land Rover over to the U.S. from England.  I wanted a 
shorter car.  He wanted a 90.  All we have, right now, is the 2-door Range 
Rover, a 109 Land Rover pick-up and a Vanagon.  I wanted something with a 
shorter wheel base and better turning radius that could be driven downtown 
and not take three hours to find a parking space for.  He wanted a stable of 
Land Rovers.

So he called the guys who called other guys who called other guys.  After 
several conversations and fax echanges, a 20 foot container was put aboard a 
ship headed for the US.  A couple weeks later, John also got a stack of 
shipping papers that had various parts listed on them.  Two doors, a right 
wing, a left wing, a front windshield, a set of mirrors, another set of 
windows, sliders, an engine a carburetor, a wiring harness or three, etc. 
etc. etc...  Lots and lots of parts that once had made an entire Land Rover, 
broken out into thousands of parts (sic).  It was the same shipping list 
that Customs was to get, all simply parts for a Land Rover, along with a 
trailer, a hi-cap pickup bed for the 109, another engine for the 109, and 
various bits and pieces for the Range Rover and Land Rover, as the shipping 
was essentially free.  We'd already paid for the 20-foot container, anything 
we could put into the container basically had free passage.  All of which 
would probably have to go through Customs.

Last Friday John got a call.  'It's through Customs and in port.  When do 
you want it in your driveway?'  Turned out that Customs hadn't really 
worried to much about it because everything was completely in order.  John 
started bouncing off the walls at work.  After straining through a day of 
delay in delivery, on Wednesday John rushed home to welcome a semi with a 
20-foot container.  That afternoon he was bouncing off the walls at work 
until he could get me home to look at it, too... and wouldn't tell me what 
was in the container at all.  He just grinned at me.

We got home, and had to park in the gravel parking area because the 
container completely blocked the driveway.  John bounced over to the 
container doors and helped me open the bars and swing the door open.  I 
gaped at the opening.  There was a *whole* Land Rover back right at the door 
mouth.  Not individual tires, panels, axles and the like, but the whole body 
of it in the matte, brush painted, radar absorbent green of an ex-Military 
vehicle.  It looked nearly *whole*.  I grabbed John and John grabbed me and 
we just danced right there in the driveway a whirling dervish of delight.

It turned out that they'd only taken out the transmission, the engine and 
most of the front end.  All of the parts they had taken off were packed in 
the completely whole trailer and pickup bed.  The biggest hurdle next was 
the fact that everything in the 20-foot container was four feet off the 
ground, since it was still on the truck bed.

John and his dad spent the next two evenings building a Ramp.  It was about 
12 feet long, and solid as a brick.  They put planks all along the top of 
it, and as wide as the door to the container.  Come Saturday morning, both 
John and I are a mass of sore muscles from the previous night's soccer game. 
 John can't withstand the siren call of the container, though, so he's up at 
7:30 pounding the last planks into the ramp.  John's dad comes to help and 
there is no sleeping through the pounding of hammers, so I get up, and after 
the first cup of coffee feel kinda human again.  I water the plum trees 
while they finish up prep of the ropes for the 90; and when I'm done with a 
set of laundry, I go out to help with the Unloading of the Container.

Ben Freeman, another of the folks in John's Land Rover club, came over to 
help with the unloading as he'd just moved one of his Rovers using a U-Haul 
and had the equipment and interest to help us out.  The back of the 90 has 
become a mass of ropes and towing ribbon and steel connectors.  The ramp has 
a couple of stops as well.  The main idea for bringing the Rover down is to 
have John basically just steer it
down, backwards, using the brakes with the ropes and the blocks as safeties. 
 We set up all the ropes.  John climbs in, we all put ourselves in various 
places to help direct its course and then we give it a bit of a push to set 
it over onto the ramp.  The beginning works just fine.  No problem with the 
brakes or the steerage.  Halfway down the ramp, and the Rover picks up a 
little speed, John pumps the brakes, the wheels slip on the wood planking, 
and I jump out of the way as the Rover slithers to a stop at the end of its 
ropes, two feet from the bottom of the ramp.  Whew.  Good thing it was all 
setup.  Turns out that the Rover is easy to push up the ramp just enough to 
loosen all the ropes, so we do that, and just let it take the last two feet, 
no problem.  A bit of maneuvering and we put it safely into the garage! 
 Hurrah!

Next, the trailer.  Some careful work leveling it out in the container, and 
then pulling out all the parts that were carefully packed within it.  The 
compact space of the trailer holds an amazing number of parts, which are 
soon scattered all over our front lawn.  The trailer is relatively light and 
the four of us bring it down the ramp pretty easily and into the strawberry 
patch, or at least the part that we've cleared for this particular purpose.

The engines go next, each with a slow-let down rope system, essentially a 
block and tackle setup with sledge runners under the engines to let it slide 
down the ramp in a controlled manner.  I find that it's easiest for me to 
just sit on the floor of the container and push at the engine with my legs 
rather than try lifting any of it.  Rollers and pry bars work the magic 
needed to get the engines onto blocks in the garage.

The pickup bed was tied against the far wall of the container and is *heavy* 
with parts.  Springs and pipes, exhaust systems and paneling all packed in 
with foam that, oddly, is shaped in exactly the same shape as seat cushions 
for a Land Rover.  Kinda coool.  :)  We unload all the parts and soon the 
*entire* front lawn is covered with parts of all kinds.  The bed is really 
light after it is unloaded and with one
person on each corner we set it on the one clear corner of lawn we'd set 
aside for it.  And that was that.

One twenty-foot long container's worth of contents now covers nearly 400 
square feet of lawn and a slot in the two-car garage.  And we were all done 
with everything just after Noon as well.  Quite a morning's work.

 -----
Phyllis

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 13:27:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: re: The Great Adventure

I was in Finland just before Xmas and I was also suprised by the amount of
Camel stuff in the windows of the stores.  I went in to one and because I
was visiting from N.A. and because we had quite a bit of publicity for the
Red Cross, the clerk gave me some nice Finish Nation Team stuff.  My Lndy
now has a Finland Nation Team 1994 sticker on the back window.  I have
been able to get almost all the tapes for the past trecks.  I think my
collection starts just after the Darian (sp?) Gap stuff.  By the way, the
Darian Gap has been on TV twice and I was not able to get a copy.  Does
anyone know where to order a tape in North American scan, and are the
Camel Trophy races available this side of the pond in our scan system?  I
would like to complete my collection of tapes.  I was able to get most of
my tapes from someone on this side of the pond who had had them put into
PAL or SECAM or whatever our system takes.  We watch them so much at our
house that they are beginning to show their age. HI HI.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 94 11:38:28 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  Range-Rover Diff Oil Level

I've found the fluid capacities to be way off the official ones in some cases.
On the other hand, the fluid level hole is on the front of the diff-- I usually
use it for filling as well.

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

From: Malcolm956@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 94 14:41:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Land Rover Camping 

>So what does everyone else do??????????????

Your rig sounds very luxurious!  Me? I sleep in the dirt.  After camping for
about 50 years, I have gone minimalist.  I have tried back packing, tents,
tent trailers, a VW camper, bicycle camping and now a 16 foot open Swampscott
dory (the oceangoing equivalent of a Land Rover - it is slow, goes anywhere
and gets you back home despite the roughest conditions).  

I have come to the opinion that too much equipment tends to block the view.
 Camping becomes the end in itself rather than merely a means of staying out
where you can see a billion stars in the still desert air, fish at dawn,
watch the phosphorescence when you drop your anchor after the dark, travel in
wilderness, enjoy the smell of a campfire.

Recently I did a business trip, by air, to California which was extended for
a few days to get a better air fare.  With time to kill and a rental car at
my disposal, I brought along a camping rig based around my cycling gear: a
small 1 person tent, a lightweight fleece sleeping bag, a tiny but efficient
alcohol stove, a candle lantern, a 1 qt "billy" for cooking, plastic table
ware, a couple of folding cups (one for tea, one for rum), clothes for the
business trip (fortunately a casual one), and my bagpipes (Yes, pipes. I
wouldn't kid about a thing like that).  Everything went into a single
carry-on bag with the sleeping bag strapped to the outside. The entire rig
fit in the over-head carry-on bin on the plane.  

Spent one night next to the Pacific at Oceanside, one at Palomar and one at
Joshua Tree.  (Wished that I had my '65 88" Series IIa Land Rover at Joshua
Tree.)  The accountants are going to have trouble coping with $14 state park
receipts instead of the usual $120 hotel bills.  

Look at it this way, if you have a mini camp that fits into a single pack
basket, you have that much more room left over in the Land Rover for your
8x10 Linhof, accessories and portable darkroom.  It worked for Matthew Brady
and Ansel Adams.  

However, in spite of the fact that I would much rather do something
interesting than be comfortable, I am not a complete fool.  A dining fly is
marvelous thing.  For the Land Rover, fit a fore and aft pole (closet poles
or hand rails work) to the side of your luggage rack.  Secure one edge of a
large blue poly tarp to the pole.  Park next to your picnic table and set the
tarp up as a roof over the table.  One side is supported by the Land Rover
and the other by adjustable tent poles, ropes & pegs.  For a fast and dirty
campsite, forget the tent poles, peg the tarp directly to the ground and call
it a tent.  Because one side is fixed firmly to the Land Rover, it is fast
and easy to set up even in inclement weather.  For traveling, roll the tarp
up around the tent poles, guy ropes and pegs and strap everything to the pole
on the Land Rover.  A place to sit, sheltered from rain and sun, is true
luxury.  

Another useful item is a gun rack - the kind you see in the back window of
every other pickup truck.  Gun racks are cheap, widely available, quite
strong, and adjustable to fit Land Rover rear side windows.  You may not be
into guns, but the racks are ideal for umbrellas, fishing rods, bow saws,
camera tripods, bagpipes, mailing tubes, kites and other long, thin things
that otherwise get lost or damaged in the bottom of the Land Rover.  They are
superb oversize garment hooks.  Drape the camera gadget bag strap or the
handle of a backpack over a hook to keep it from falling off the side seats.
 Haversacks, purses, foul weather gear, fanny packs, jumper cables, a coil of
rope - you name it.  

A bit off the subject, I have made a discovery of sorts.  Cleaning up after
meals has always been the worst part of camping.  Now that my doctor has me
on a virtually zero fat diet (lots of rice, beans, lentils, vegetables, etc.)
I find that non-fat food is much easier to clean up when camping because
there is no grease.  Hot, soapy water is rarely needed.  Wipe the pot out
with a used tea bag, give it a quick slosh with cold water and you are done.

Cheers from New Hampshire, 
Malcolm

=====__
|[__]|_\_==_
|    | |    ]
 (@)-----(@)    ... . -- .--. . .-.   ..-. ..   *\:{>
x

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 94 11:50:27 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re: Rust Buster (was new RN toy...)

What's the bit about oiling the chassis -- what does that involve??

John Brabyn
89 RR

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 94 14:40:20 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Camping 

In message <9408181441.tn84002@aol.com>  writes:

snip

> However, in spite of the fact that I would much rather do something
> interesting than be comfortable, I am not a complete fool.  A dining fly is
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> on the Land Rover.  A place to sit, sheltered from rain and sun, is true
> luxury.  

snip

> Cheers from New Hampshire, 
> Malcolm
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> x
> I was thinking of doing something simular to your suggestion.  Since even my 
semi-retired Land Rover occasionally still has to do some work for its petrol I 
can not really put anything permanite in the back that would take much space or 
keep me from hosing it out.

I was thinking of using thick wall 1/2 inch PVC piping to build shed shaped 
frame that would be about 5 feet longer than the top of my 109 and cover it with
a blue tarp that would streach over the frame top and over the top of the 109.  
The extra length would go over the back.    It would allow me to be able to set 
up and cook in the rain without water coming down between the frame and the LR. 
And the extra length over the back would allow me dry access to the back of the 
LR.  If I wanted to drive off and leave the camp set up all I would need to do 
is unhook the propane line from the internal propane tank and the tarp from the 
LR.  I could fasten the extra length of the tarp to the poles as a side & drive 
off.  The poles would not be glued so it would disassemble and fit in the back 
of the LR.  

It would be too much work to bring out for a dry overnighter but it should work 
when I am spending some time in one location.  Last month when I spent a week on
the Oregon coast my outside stuff was treated to heavy dripping fog every night.
A cover would have been nice and I keep thinking I can't be lucky enough not to 
get rained on while LR camping all the time.

I agee with you about camping light.  I used to chuckle at the people who 
brought the kitchen sink and a large rug to camp sites as I walked past with 
everything I needed for a week on my back.  But lately I have started to 
question why I should travel like a back packer while car camping when I have a 
109 two door to carry things.  A stove that would let me make tea while cooking 
breakfast, and such things as lights bright enough to read by, a pillow and 
sleeping pad started to look like reasonable things when car camping in a 109.  
maybe I'm just getting to be an old lady and liking my comforts a little more.  
I would like to think that I've just gotten over my backpacker's chalvinism and 
decided to be practial for once in my life.

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
LINK: TWAKEMAN              
408-974-2344                         TR3A - TS75519L, 
                       MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Rust Buster
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 94 18:44:52 EDT

>         The little ad makes all sorts of promises. Promises that, to my
>         reading and talking with many people, just are not borne out by
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>         pipelines?  If it is passive (and I doubt it actually) how does it
>         deal with the electrical discontinuities found within a Land Rover?

Well, gee, maybe there's LOTS of wires that come with the thing so you
can attach it to each and every metal bit on your Rover!
OR, maybe they suggest you make a sea-worthy vehicle out of it...submerge
and it oughta work (and watch your entire body disappear when it fails....)

>         PS.  Am still curious if they differentiate between positive and
>              negative earthed vehicles.
>         experience.  As above, in theory it should work. Reality, as with

I suspect it would not work at all on positive earth rigs......the flow
of electrons being in the wrong direction (hey, maybe it'll rust even
faster!).

rd/nigel

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 19:07:38 -0400
From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>

> A bit off the subject, I have made a discovery of sorts.  Cleaning up after
> meals has always been the worst part of camping.  Now that my doctor has me
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> there is no grease.  Hot, soapy water is rarely needed.  Wipe the pot out
> with a used tea bag, give it a quick slosh with cold water and you are done.

> and TeriAnn's contempt for those who bring "the kitchen sink"

The absolutely most useful piece of camping equipment I own is a kitchen
sink.  A kitchen sink, you ask?  Yes, a kitchen sink.  It is basically the
bottom half of one of those cheesey plastic beach-bags our mom's all used
to have.  I think I got it from REI years ago (maybe EMS).  It folds up
neatly into a tiny little triangle that fits into my cookware.  Unfold, fill
with water, wash the dishes, take a bath, do laundry, bob for apples,
you name it.  Get one and amaze your friends.

rd/nige

------------------------------

Date: 19 Aug 1994 12:11:02 +1200
From: DAVID DEAN <DEAND@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>
Subject: Where do I find Tune Up Info?

LROers,

I remember sometime back there was a posting that had all of the timing 
and dwell information for several LR engines.  I'm tuning up a 1960 SII 
this weekend for the local farmer and don't have the manuals.  Is this 
information stored somewhere so I can retrieve through FTP or gopher?

Please cc me directly as I am on digest mode and need the info before 
tommorrow (if possible, of course).

Cheers,

------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) -------
----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) -----------
--- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ----

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 20:47:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Camping 

I have found that the aluminum track for the side of trailers to hold the
sun shade is great for Land Rovers.  It is the type you pull rope through.
 I have pop rivited a piece on each side of my safari rack and I can put a
tarp on it and with just two poles and some rope have a nice camp site. 
If you are really into comfort a screen room from a short 13 foot trailer
fits well.  To carry the poles, I use a piece of plumbing pipe about 4"
across with a screw cap on each end.  This is the way plumbers carry
copper pipe on their truck racks.  It is a great place for tent poles,
fishing rods or other long stuff.  You can roll your tarp up and put it in
here s well.  I have most often taken to sleeping on the safari rack
because the 88 is too short.  A good rack will take a "pup" tent quite
well.  Seeing the last few messages makes me wonder how old most of us are
on the net.  I am 48.  Maybe I am fooling myself that most Land Rover
owners are about 20 to 30 and still crazy!  Hi Hi.  Maybe there is hope
for me yet.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Rust Buster (was new RN toy...)
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 94 23:12:24 -0500

brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) writes:

> What's the bit about oiling the chassis -- what does that involve??

        See mail message... For anyone else, OVLR has an annual frame
        oiler party whereby we put Land Rovers up on ramps and you get to
        spray the finest goop across your frame in preparation for the
        thousand odd tons of salt that get dumped about up here.  Doing
        this extends the life of your frame by years.  Application is easy.
        Just spray the stuff everywhere across anything that looks like it
        is iron derived.  A good oiling job drips into February.  If you
        don't mind becoming an oily mess for a couple hours, it really
        doesn't involve very much...

        Rgds

        Dixon

--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 

	
    
          
	



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