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Subject: welcome mate!
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 00:10:36 -0500

G'Day to Craig murray and family and all in the Land Rover Owners Club of 
Victoria at the bottom of the globe from us in the Ottawa Valley in 
Canada at the top of the world!!

It is just grand (you need to be North Country England to get the meaning 
of the word ) to have all these new floks coming onto the system. it 
never ceases to amaze me as to the possibilites of engine transplants 
that our southern hemisphere friends can put out! the mind boggles as to 
what they must have tried that didnt work!

Say do you guys have the galvanic reactions fromthe wet seasons that we 
do from the salt at all? Just asking.

regards

Robin Craig

Ottawa Valley Land Rovers, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Subject: welding galvanised material
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 94 09:45:22 -0500

A while ago I noitced a message from Mike Fredette I beleive it was who 
was making comments about welders not wanting to weld bits onto a 
galvanised frame

RIGHTLY SO! In case you are not aware I will digress, all others exit 
here!

As a welder and fabricator by trade I can tell you that most welders 
would prefer to grind all day than have to weld on Galvanised material. 
When the zinc, which is all galvainsing is really, dipping in molten 
zinc, is heated it changes chemically. During that breakdown some very 
noxious substances are generated. One of them is cadmium, lovely stuff 
not good to get into your system at all. IT HAS ALWAYS been a part of 
most welders training to be taught that welding on galvanised material is 
dangerous to your health.

>From a practical point of view there is no reason that you can not weld 
to galvanised material if you take the proper precauutions. Here is how I 
would takle it in an ideal environment money no object situation.

Using the piece to welded to the frame take an indelible marker and draw 
on the frame where the piece will land.

Using a grinder, eye goggles and fine particle mask and a fan behind you 
to blow the dust away (DO THIS OUTSIDE) grind the area to be welded and 
keep going a good 1/2 to 1" furtheraway from the edge and expose the base 
mild steel frame, this will be shiny and bright by comparison.

Clamp and aline new piece to be welded. My choice for welding would be a 
good MIG (LINDE TRADE NAME NOTE) machine or a stcik welder with 3/32 
E7018 rods for the job. tack the object at a number of points. When you 
are welding use a 100% fresh air welding mask, very expensive or if you 
have to go the route of using  fan behind you. 

If you use a fan and are using a MIG machine chances are that you will 
nock away the shielding gas and this will play havoc with your weld. yes 
you can use a gasless wire if you have one.

The 3/32 E7018 is a very ductile welding materail and it will give you an 
excellent bond / fusion if used correctly. It is a good all position rod 
and the 7018 range is well proven in the structural field.

Alot of people like the 60xxx series of rods such as 6010 or 6011 to wled 
with. They are fine for some jobs such as the root pass in a pipe weld or 
biting down through rusty materail but do not have the ductility of the 
70xxx series rods that in my view are more applicable to Land Rovers that 
constantly twist and flex.

Once welding you will see immmediatly if you removed all the galvased 
material in the weld area, if you get green flames and a funny crackling 
then you failed. 

Once you have finshed your welding, being carefull to limit heat build up 
in a small area, then clean the weld with chipping hammer which should be 
drawn accross the weld not pounded into it to remove the flux and then 
brushed with a good wire brush.

As the material is cooling down but not yet cold but not hot enough to 
make steam, just a bit uncomfortable to touch a coat of Galvafroid paint 
should be applied. It can be bought in spray bombs or in big cans and 
should be well mixed first. Let this paint go on in light layers drying 
first before applying the next layer. Do a number of layers to get a good 
protection on the site.

If you welded fully around the object then the back is sealed in and will 
not rust. What you cant get at is the inside of the frame that you just 
toasted so nicely. Get out the oiling material and try to get some in 
behind if you can to try to stop the corrosion from the inside.

This all leads me to one big question though, if your frame is galvaised 
why are you having to weld anything to it at all, the outriggers should 
have been galvanised aswell yes? 

I'm sure that there is something that i have left out as I live type 
this, lets see what develops.

By the way the Oldtimers notion that you can protect yourself when 
welding on galvanised materail by drinking milk is bullshit. 
Just thought I would erase that fallacy before i signed out on this one.

Be gald to advise,

Rgds

Robin Craig
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills)
Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice?
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 01:18:47 -0600 (MDT)

Sean,

Welcome to the land of LR!
 
< stock 2.2 petrol engine, but with a Rochester carb,

When my original Solex gave out, I tried Rochester because there was
one handy and cheap.  Bad news.  I have since switched to Weber (with
an expensive new manifold), and it was worth it.

<      As an aside, what speed do older Land Rovers comfortably travel on a
< highway?  I've heard that they're slow, but exactly how slow?

Speaking as the owner of the fastest Rover in the West (1966 109"),
I'd say don't even think of getting by without overdrive if you plan
on much highway driving (unless, of course, you have all time in the
world and don't mind dirty looks as you hold up traffic much as a
tractor would).

< What does it cost to get a winch and a soft top for one?

Winch prices vary greatly, but a $50 Hi-Lift Jack serves as a winch.

Rovers North catalog lists 88" canvas for $410 and complete hoop set
for $295.  Great if you can afford it (and you can probably find
cheaper than RN).  I just built a bikini top for about $40 in parts,
but I'm still working on some design flaws.

The Haynes manual LAND-ROVER SERIES I, II & III GUIDE TO PURCHASE &
D.I.Y RESTORATION by Lindsay Porter gives a lot of useful tips on what
to watch for when buying a used LR.  Cost tends to vary by region: I
think the coasts are the more expensive.  Rovers that have spent most
of their lives in the dry West are less likely to suffer frame rust.

Ultimately the condition you can live with and the price you will pay
depends on your own feelings.  I have found that LR is the only
vehicle whose maintenance costs I do not resent, and that sort of
peace of mind can be rather important.

T. F. Mills                                   tomills@diana.cair.du.edu
University of Denver Library  2150 E. Evans Ave.  Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

From: "Keith Coman" <BAKC@giraffe.ru.ac.za>
Date:          Tue, 28 Jun 1994 10:17:54 GMT+0200
Subject:       Re: Land Rover Advice?

>      I am interested in purchasing a Land Rover and I need some advice on
> one that I have found locally.  I really want to know how much I should
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> for a vehicle like this in your area.  I am in the SE United States, so if
> you know American $ figures, it would be appreciated.

    Corrosion in these areas seems to come in two flavours: 
mild\correctable and bloody disasterous.  In yr instance, don't 
hesitate to don some overalls, take a strong flashlight and get 
underneath the unit.  Inspect the frame literally inch by inch.  
Landie frame corrosion to really put you off will take the form of 
pin-holes (or worse!) appearing in the frame --> where the corrosion 
has eaten from the *inside* to the outside.  That's the worst case -- 
internal frame corrosion -- there is no real way to telling just how 
far\extensive this has gone: assume the worst and pass.  
Alternatively, firewall corrosion is not a big deal to fix but it will 
require you to strip the body down.  {Of course, patches of "fixable"
frame corrosion -- outriggers, etc. -- may also require the body to 
come off to be patched and welded.}
    While yr looking at the frame, take a good peek at the two front 
"horns" of the frame that extend forwards of the front wheels (the 
front end of the springs go on here).  Check for corrosion and most 
particularly crash damage -- cracks and twists in the frame.  Not too 
serious as it can be straightened and welded tight with reinforcing 
plates.       

>      As an aside, what speed do older Land Rovers comfortably 
travel on a
> highway?  I've heard that they're slow, but exactly how slow?  What does it
> cost to get a winch and a soft top for one?

    Bear in mind that the Landie is basically a 1940's light truck 
design with sparse "upgrades" performed over a 40+ yr period.  
Underneath the neat body panels is a pretty crude and "agricultural"
vehicle.  The ride is harsh, the handling .... well, "indirect".  If 
you've got back problems or a gammy leg, etc. a Landie will pall 
pretty quick believe me!  (Ergonomics and Landies is an oxymoron!!!)
    Drivability issues: Generally top speed is around 60 mph (more if 
yr lucky and perhaps have a tail wind).  Going flat out you'll have 
yr hands full steering, you'll also notice a significant drag factor 
on account of the "flat" aerodynamics of the body!  Comfortable 
cruising is of the order of 45-50 mph on a level road -- encounter a 
steep hill and be prepared to drop down to 3rd and go up at 28-33mph
(depending on yr tolerence for engine and gearbox noise!).  A high 
speed motorway cruiser the Landie is not: in sum a good unit will chug
along at around 47mph all day, fully laden with perhaps a trailer too 
and yr average speed will go right down to around 35-37mph.  Again, 
keep in mind that the Landie was built around the typical roads of 
England in the late 1940's\early 1950's -- narrow, twisting, full of 
little 1920's and 1930's Austins\Morris's (top speed 50mph) and when 
heavy trucks were legally obliged to go no faster than 25mph, whilst 
for off-road and dirt road use in the colonies, well yes Model A Ford 
speeds were just about right.  Even the Series 3 has more of this 
1950 Ink Spots character than the Swingin' Sixties!!!  Fast forward to 
the 1990's and you can readily imagine the snags.....!

    The main problem is the Brit 2.25l motor -- it's got great low 
down torque for off-road, but IMO simply runs increasingly on the 
back of the curve once you try to go over 40mph.  (One of the reasons 
why out in the old Empire a popular move is to deep six the original 
Landie motor in favour of a higher capacity unit -- a Chevy 2.5l 4-
banger engine from Brazil for e.g. is brilliant -- beaut low down 
torque for off-road with the advantage of a higher power curve: moves 
all the above speed figures up by 15-20mph ... but I digress!)

    I'm sure others will pitch in with some better advice and 
opinions and 'natch YMMV!!!
Good luck!
Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa *
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

------------------------------

Subject: More on the stuck valve saga...
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 01:35:24 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>

	First of all thanks for all of the suggestions and advice.

Bill Malony wrote:
>1.  My first thought was that there is a problem with the lifter (tappet) 
>assembly, but that wouldn't explain why the valve stuck in the open position. 
>Use a set of long needle nose pliers or hemostats and check to see that the 
>lifter slides up and down and that the roller is where it is supposed to be
	I'm not at my Rover so I can't check this right now, but I replaced
the rollers about two years ago after the previous set failed.  (I had
purchased a reconditions short block from Atlantic British and the rollers
they installed had not been hardened, so grooves wore into them very
quickly.  I haven't had a problem with them since.

>2.  Did you check the valve spring?  Sometimes if the inner or outer is broken 
>it can cause the other spring to bind, holding the valve open.  At the very 
>least, change the spring as well
	The springs were ok.  When I took the spring off i had to use a 
hammer and a nail to gently tap the valve out of the guide.  Since they
were cheap,  I also replaced all of the valve springs.

>3.  Lubrication.  Is the oil making it up to your rocker assembly (probably)? 
> If so is the spray hole in the rocker of the affected valve clear?  Is the 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>possibly causing it to bind in the guide (and causing the guides to wear in an 
>oval fashion).  
	When I put the head on I visually checked to see that oil was getting
to all of the tappets with the crank and with the engine running.  All of the
rocker arm surfaces are polished from striking the valves, but have no 
unusual visible or felt wear.

	So I got the valve out of the guide.  On opposite sides, there were
wear and binfing marks.  Like the valve welded itself to the guide in small
places.  One weld/ wear area was up high and the other was down low.  So the
thought that crossed my mind was that somehow the valve shaft didn't
have enough oil.  This cylinder had two small cracks fixed so I thought
that possibly the cracks had not been fixed correctly and water had seeped
in. The water would then boil and clean the oil off the valve.  But there
was no evidence of water in the clyinder.
	I called the shop that did the work for me and they really wanted
to set me right.  So I scrounged up a ride to thier shop (after getting a
new valve, valve guide and such from British Pacific.)  They looked at the
head and came to the conclusion that shit happens.  We could find no 
evidence of why this happened.  They were positive that the cracks had
not leaked.  After checking the clearances in the other valves (which were
ok) they pushed out the old guide, put in the new one, reground the valve
and I was on my way back.  (they were really surprise that this happened)
They also showed me the head from a Honda that had the timing belt
fail, then the pistons hit all of the valves.  It wasn't a pretty sight.
	So I'm in Pasadena, trying to scrounge a ride 100 miles north.  So
far the only taker is on Thursday so I have a bit of a wait.  One of these
days I'll get the head back in and be back on the road.

	
-Benjamin Smith
 ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

Subject: Land Rover Video
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 01:40:08 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>

	While I was getting parts at British Pacific, they popped a
movie in that they had just gotten.  It was a history of the Land
Rover documentary.  It would talk about the prototypes and then
show the prototype with the center steering wheel driving.  The movie
talked about new features while showing what the vehicles could do.  If
I wasn;t pressed for time I would have stayed and watched the whole
thing.  The BP guys said that this was a new video and unfortunately I
didn't catch the title.

-Benjamin Smith
 ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Video
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 9:48:23 BST

> 	While I was getting parts at British Pacific, they popped a
> movie in that they had just gotten.  It was a history of the Land
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> -Benjamin Smith
>  ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
>  1972 Land Rover Series III 88
Its called "The Land Rover Story"(original title,isnt it)made by
James Taylor.15 quid over here.I enjoyed it,but IMO it isnt worth
that sort of money,more like a tenner's worth.I borrowed a copy
from my local public library for a quid(a week's worth).
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Southern Engine transplants.
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 18:35:19 +0930 (CST)

Robin  writes:
> it never ceases to amaze me as to the possibilites of engine transplants 
> that our southern hemisphere friends can put out! the mind boggles as to 
> what they must have tried that didnt work!
none

Cant think of any commonly available powerplant that doesnt have an adaptor
plate available from someone, somewhere down under.
The ones I can think of off of the top of my head which I have seen at least
one of over the years include:

Holden (GM) 6cyl and V8  (most popular)
Chev V8
Valiant (chrysler) 225ci 6cyl, OZ 215, 245 & 265ci 6cyl, V8 (273,318)
Ford 6cyl (x-flow and non-x-flow), V8 (windsor fits really neatly)
Rover/Buick V8 and derivatives (inc 4.4L P76 V8)
Rover 3L 6cyl
Perkins diesels
Nissan diesels
Diahatsu diesels

There must be some that I've forgotten.  In addition there used to be an
after-market turbo kit for the 2.25 diesel.

Once saw a turbo 3.3L Holden six in an 88" , accelerated like a scalded cat,
but not much use otherwise.

 
> Say do you guys have the galvanic reactions from the wet seasons that we 
> do from the salt at all? Just asking.
> what they must have tried that didnt work!
"Down South" down under we have a mediteranean (sp) climate, you know summer
winter autumn spring, (Hey I'ts new to me..)  But the roads dont get salted,
dont know much about the corrosion down here.

Up north where I used to be (Darwin) the biggest problem was/is rusting of
the window channels, you need to replace them every 3 or so years as they
spent 4-5 months almost constantly wet.  I have got a little "white rust" in
places but not much.  (like below the window channels)
More cracks in the panels than corrosion. Of course if you back the thing
into the sea when you launch the boat and dont wash it off ("why?, Its
aluminium, it cant rust!") then that's a different bag of bolts so to speak.

Cheers.
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)
  Dept. of Plant Science,    Waite Institute
  University of Adelaide,  Glen Osmond S.A. 5064
  Australia. Voice:61_8 303 7426  Fax:61_8 303 7102

P.S.   Come back Terriann, I miss you :-(

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Howdy all-
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 10:24:49 UNDEFINED

>All Land Rover 4 cylinders after the series 1 were derived from the 2l
>desiel, The 2.25 petrol and desiel, are basically the same motor, with
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>it would be the same as the 2.25 petrol, and almost the same as a
>TDi block.

Anyone nkow how similar the 2.25 petrol is to the 2.5 normally aspirated 
deisel?

The reason I ask is that our cretiin government is thinking about making all 
desiels older than 10 years illegal!!!!!!! So, if they go ahead with it, I was 
wondering how easy it would be just to say' to hell with it' and convert to a 
petrol?

Cheers

Andy

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Subject: A Landrover ride. WOW!
From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 12:08:00 +0100

I saw this message on the off-road list, and thought it may be of interest.
 Forgive me if it has been already reposted here....
 Ludovico
 
>From: Darrin Sharp <galactica.galactica.it!hpsharp.fc.hp.com!sharp>
>Message-Id: <9406272124.AA07077@hpsharp.fc.hp.com>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 130 lines)]
>more fun, I thought.
>-Darrin Sharp (sharp@fc.hp.com)

---
* UniQWK v3.0 * The Windows Mail Reader

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Howdy all-
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 11:57:46 BST

Andy,
This is a new turnup!It sounds very like the SMMT's idea to make
all vehicles over ten years old illegal,or the notion that vehicles
over a certain age should be limited in their operating range.
Anyway,think of the opposition in the haulage and bus trades alone.
Not to mention Land Rover's undoubted fury at such a suggestion.After
all their longevity is part of their sales attraction.Plus,I doubt that
such a bloody silly idea would get past the EU,things being as they are.
Sounds like a bit of "kite flying" to me.Well I hope so anyway.I wonder
of Whitehall is being got at by the oil companies,worried about the
upsurge in diesel engines with their much reduced requirement for what
the said companies sell.Personally,for what its worth,I reckon the most
likely scenario(ugh,horrible word)is that the MOT/Plating requirements
would be made so stringent that any ten year old diesel would be almost
bound to fail on nice clean smelling of roses absolutely *crappy*
"environmental" grounds.This would have the advantage that the politicians
could slide the ruling in by the back door,and avoid yet another confrontation
with the no longer long suffering Great British Public.As yet,though,there is nosign of such a move(like,mine passed,visual examination only),but there *is* a
precedent in Japan,where I'm told the second "MOT" at six years requires the
car to be as new.It isnt,of course,so the car is sold for a song(and a new one
bought,which is the object of the excercise)to enterprising Asian blokes.These
blokes ship them overseas and sell them at a vast profit.Stupid,but true.
I cant honestly see it being a viable proposition to convert a 2.25 diesel
into a petrol engine from a cost viewpoint.Especially since a secondhand
petrol can be had *very* cheaply at present.Just about all you would use 
is the block and crank.Not that I,m doubting your word,I hasten to add,
having re-read the above,but it *does* seem to be the silly season for such
rumours.On the other hand,this so called government also seems to have got
its knife out to the diesel all of a sudden,probably on the principle that
if you can *see* the exhaust it *must* be bad for you.God help the steam
preservation movement in that case!"Locomotives(and Land Rovers?)must
consume their own smoke"all over again.Shades of the Rainhill Trials.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

PS Thanks for the warning about red diesel,I hadnt thought of that!
On the other hand,the Rover regularly get splashed when I park it
close to where the tractor gets refuelled,so I,m probably done for
anyway!

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Howdy all-
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 12:39:42 UNDEFINED

>This is a new turnup!It sounds very like the SMMT's idea to make
>all vehicles over ten years old illegal,or the notion that vehicles
>over a certain age should be limited in their operating range.
>Anyway,think of the opposition in the haulage and bus trades alone.

The problem here is that the big hauliers run newish trucks and sell the old 
ones off to little hauliers. The government likes big industries that give it 
money, but couldnt give a toss about little ones. The other folk who would 
complain are farmers, but they'd get a monster replacement subsidy off the EEC 
anyway. If there was too much fuss they'd simply exempt commercial 
organisations and shit all over teh private road user, as usual.

>Not to mention Land Rover's undoubted fury at such a suggestion.After
>all their longevity is part of their sales attraction.Plus,I doubt that

And the Krauts are not flavour of teh month at the moment either........
So the government wont be too fussed about ******BMWs*******

>Sounds like a bit of "kite flying" to me.Well I hope so anyway.I wonder

If THEY"D made a fuss about it I'd agree, but the info came from a New 
Scientist environmental article as a throw away line from one of the 
government think (!!) tanks. So it's low profile enough to be true.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Date: 28 Jun 94 23:46:08 GMT
Subject: Ben's Valve Train Problems

Ben, 

I'm glad to hear that your machine shop stood by their work.  I'm sure you're 
anxious to get back on the road.  I'd give you a lift but it would be a bit 
more than 100 miles from NJ.  Since you won't be able to get a ride until 
Thursday, you have no excuse not to paint your head.  I like Plasticote Ford 
Green (#302 I think).  Be sure to clean all the grease off the head with 
solvent and a rag or paper towels.  The stuff dries fast so apply a number of 
light coats.  Should it die again if nothing else at least it will look good.

Oh, if they fixed a crack, take a light and look and feel down the intake and 
 exhaust runners.  When a cracked head is "stitched" they drill a hole at one 
end of the crack, thread it, screw in a soft tapped plug until it snaps, grind 
it off, then repeat the process over the length of the crack overlapping the 
plugs.  The plug will protrude into the intake or exhaust runner and is then 
ground flush.  When I got the one head back that I had repaired for a crack, I 
found they had forgotten to grind off one of the plugs sticking out inside the 
runner.  Since it was soft it didn't take much to grind it flush.  A Dremel or 
drill with a grinding bit will work just fine.  

Be sure to feel all the way into the runners.  If you have to grind one off be 
sure to flush out all the filings.  Just a thought.

Safe trip.

Bill Maloney 

maloney@wings.attmail.com 

201-564-2073 W 201-835-1796 H 
	 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 08:29:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Re: Howdy all-

Sorry guys the rover petrol and the rover diesel share a block,but not the
Perkins....common misconseption....btw..the petrol crank is cast not
forged like the diesel...so don't interchangs p tp d ....d to p is OK tho...

HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP"

Steven M. Denis <denis@oswego.oswego.edu>
PO BOX 61
Erieville,NY 13061

On Mon, 27 Jun 1994, James B Russell wrote:

> About the Perkins, I could be all wrong on this but...
> I seem to recal hearing that the block for the Perkins was the same as 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>                   Jim Russell   ====   jrussell@netcom.com
>                          (Seattle -- San Francisco)            

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 08:35:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Re: Howdy all-

Hey! all this diesel stuff is getting me covered with soot!
I have driven a Perkins powered rig.....Ugh!....the thing pounds like a
trip hammer and is all reved out by 2000 rpm (gotta change the diffs AND
use overdrive!) the massive torque at low speeds trashes the axles and
driveshafts....but it would make a great tractor tho...
steve

HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP"

Steven M. Denis <denis@oswego.oswego.edu>
PO BOX 61
Erieville,NY 13061

On 28 Jun 1994, DAVID DEAN wrote:

> >From:           Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
> <snip snip>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)]
> ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) -----------
> --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ----

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 08:40:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Re: Howdy all- 

MORE diesel stuff?...That block is a 2.0 liter diesel! the 2.0 was a wet
sleeve engine...you CANNOT use it for a petrol...if ya push the sleeves
out the water comes splashing in!......
steve...

HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP"

Steven M. Denis <denis@oswego.oswego.edu>
PO BOX 61
Erieville,NY 13061

------------------------------

Subject: majordomo@chunnel.uk.stratus.com  lro-digest-request@uk.stratus.com 
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 09:37:12 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

Hi Folks,

   It seems there was a false start on the digest-announcement, as there was
an error in the mail exchange records -- so after a few days if you had
sent mail, you would get a bounce.  This has been corrected, and it appears
now that all is well.

   So if you had tried before to access it and had no reply or an error,
please try again, and, of course  let me know if you have any problems.
(Now, this is important, 'cause as soon as it works for the digest,
then it will be applied to the normal mailing list.)

   Cheers,
 -- Bill

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Dieselphobia
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 15:03:52 BST

Now,why do I get the impression(faint,but nevertheless,pursuing)
that Steve doesnt like diesels?Consider,dear sir,the advantages.
One such being that Joe Lucas cannot stop your power unit 
revolving come what may.Once started(which admittedly Mr Lucas
*is* at liberty to prevent)the entire electrical system can   
be consigned to the very devil,it is powerless to wreak its evil
way upon you.
You are domiciled in Soggie England/Wales/Scotland? Worry not,
thy ignition is assured,yea even if thou venture deep into
Ontario mud thy plugs,they foul not nor thy coil letteth thee
deep into the plonker.And your battery,being wondrous large,will
assist any two of these petroleum spirit powered contrivances to
commence,both at the same time.(Footnote,is this a gang bang?).
(Second footnote:more possibly a gang of bangers).
What other form of prime mover will automatically lubricate your
chassis when the fuel tank commences to leak? Ah,I have you there!
And when the snow lies deep and crisp and...well you know..
consider,if you will,the simple pleasures of the outdoor life,as will
become obvious when you light a bonfire under the fuel tank,thus
warming your hands,even though your posterior be a fetching shade of blue.
And then again,when motoring upon the Queen's Highway,should you consider
the dear little old lady following in her horseless carriage to be
following at an unseemly *close* proximity,the solution lies at your
own right foot.Pushed suddenly floorwards,a cloud of black smoke will
appear as in a miracle,both obscuring her from your gaze,and allowing
you to proceed at the stately pace which is your right and privelige,
providing unrivalled views of the surrounding scenery,and not attracting
the unwelcome attentions of the local constabulary,viv-a-vis the
*dreadful* crime of scorching.
Indeed,a delight to all the senses,is the Compression Ignition power
unit.Listen to the happy clatter of all four injectors,smell the 
heady delights of Heavy Fuel Oil post combustion,adjust the Hand
Accelerator Lever to a siutable position,and recline at your ease.
Ah bliss!
And if,heaven forfend,you should suffer a (whisper) malfunction,far
from means of succour and assistance,a little Heavy Fuel Oil added
to a quantity of dry tinderand ignited will provide a suitable column
of black smoke such as will enable you to summon help.It is,however,
in circumstances such as these,advisable to have about your person
a Navajo phrase book.Those Petroleum Spirit conveyances have none,no,
not one of these advantages.
*And I've still got my original half shafts,so there!
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 08:52:51 MDT
From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL )
Subject: Isolated Ground

I agree with Michel regarding the difficulty of
isolating everything on the Rover.  What he did
to his truck has done most of what I was suggesting.

My original plan was to improve the electrical system
and I had not even thought of the corossion that is
at the very least enhanced by the frame grounding.

Michel I would be interested to know if you have noticed
any real/measureable difference in your system.  I was
thinking of brighter tail,headlight and signal lights.
Possibly a higher rate of charge to the battery while 
driving and maybe a sense that starter seems to have more
juice.  Thanks for the info.

Roy - Chasing Farads out of my Rovers frame.

------------------------------

From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: Lulu's dynamo light is on and won't go off...
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 09:56:18 -0500 (CDT)

Came home late sunday night.  had to drive the last
25 miles with the dynamo light on.  Stopped and
made sure the fan belt was on, but was dark and
didn't check anything else.  Things are busy here
and I haven't looked under the hood, yet...

But I did look at my factory manual.  The wiring
diagram is pretty simple.
 -- from the voltage regulator to the dynamo
 -- from the dynamo back to the voltage
    regulator -- and on to the warning light.
 -- from the warning light to the ignition switch.

Some advice please on the plan of attack...

 -- check for loose wiring and bad connections.
 -- check the generator -- the book says...
    o  connect the two dynamo terminals
    o  test for voltage between the two terminals
       and the "yolk"  -- it says to use a
       moving coil voltmeter whatever that is
    o  watch for voltage rise with increase
       in engine speed.

Question is -- is this one of those common rover
problems that everyone knows about.  Such as...
-- grounding, fuse...
-- voltage regulator known to fail...
-- dynamo just needs a rebuild...

One disturbing note from the factory manual is
a statement that "there are three types of dynamo and
current voltage regulators fitted to Petrol engine models
and two types fitted to Diesel engines as follows:"
-- details omitted--
... "It is important that the appropriate
dynamos and current voltage regulators are used together as
detailed above, otherwise there is a danger of burning
out the dynamos..."

Lulu is a 61 but the engine (and dynamo) is from a 69.
Do I have a mismatch.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Harder                 Columbia, Missouri   314-882-2000

- 61 SIIa 88 (LULU)        - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project)
- 69 SIIa 88 (parts)       - 87 RR      (wife's)
- 80 MGB                   - xx
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 10:45:56 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Foam and concrete

>Speaking of wierd things in frames, found a piece of concrete? in my
>frame, back of left frame rail.  Suspect this was a factory option, as
>there is no conceivable way it could have gotten in there after
>construction.  Anyone else seen one of these?

Ah! one of the rare ferro-cement Rovers!  I believe that this was an
Eastern-Bloc experiment to build Land-Rover knock-offs without steel.
(Commies love concrete!)  Inexpensive to build, though they failed
miserably in the first mud-bog with GVW's in the 5 tonne range....

BTW - Robin talks of welding on galvanized frames...it is truly hazardous
to your health..."metal fume fever" its called down here.  Makes you "mad
as a hatter," an old reference to the cadmium/mercury contamination hatters
used to get from their trade.  If you must do it, stick welding would
probably be best, with a bloody big fan to blow the smoke and brimstone away.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 11:40:55 +0100
From: Robertslab<rjrlab@neb.com>
Subject: unsubscribe

Hi,

Unsubsrcibe me for now.

-Brian M

________________________________________________________________________________

New England Biolabs, Inc.                       Tel. (508) 927-5054 #287
Protein Modification Group                      FAX  (508) 921-1350
32 Tozer Road                                   INTERNET: rjrlab@neb.com
Beverly, MA 01915-5510 U.S.A.
________________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 11:55:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice?

HEY Come on folks.....there must be someone out there that will tell the
truth.....Like...DON"T DO IT!!!!! ....Sean, you must understand that these
people are NUTS! I do belive that most of the land rover owners have a
love/hate relationship with the beasts. The IMAGE of the rover is
wonderful "Hey mister..are you going on SAFARI?" "No kid, I just got back..."
But as a vehicle???????
Hot,noisy,cold,wet,dirty,oily,bouncy,loud,slow,thirsty.......and we
haven't made it to the end of the driveway yet!.....
I RECOMMEND...(people are setting match to burner,I'm sure..) is to DRIVE
ONE FIRST.....preferably on a long trip...(Little bro says,"LAND
ROVER..makes every road seem like off road...") This is not a "normal"
car...(and we are not normal people?)

perhaps someone near Sean will offer to have him drive their pride and joy..
(remember,If he dosn't like it, you will get the address of the for sale
rover...) 

go ahead folks,blast away...
steve.....

ps. normal price for the beast? I'd not give more than 500 for
it...*might* be worth more...but without knowedgeable help to check it
out,you could buy junk real quick like...
                                                             
  HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP"

Steven M. Denis <denis@oswego.oswego.edu>
PO BOX 61
Erieville,NY 13061

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 12:45:07 EDT
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice?

>HEY Come on folks.....there must be someone out there that will tell the
>truth.....Like...DON"T DO IT!!!!! ....Sean, you must understand that these
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>ONE FIRST.....preferably on a long trip...(Little bro says,"LAND
>ROVER..makes every road seem like off road...") This is not a "normal"
>car...(and we are not normal people?)

while i agree with all that steve said, i'll mention that my first car
(ownership-wise) was my 88' which i bought for $900 (way too much) and have
been driving for the last 5 years. so, while buying a rover without ever
having driven one may be an error, it's not fatal ;)

>ps. normal price for the beast? I'd not give more than 500 for
>it...*might* be worth more...but without knowedgeable help to check it
>out,you could buy junk real quick like...

agreement here also. one thing to note (references jan hilbrn's advice) is
that if you are going to whack at the frame with a hammer to check things
out, whack HARD. when i was looking at my dead beast, i followed this
advice, but was way too gentle. later, when i towed t to my home, a went at
it more realistically, and half the frame came off (eventually replaced
with a new galvanised frame, after much patching for the first 3 years).

jory

p.s. gonna finish the second tank installation today. just got the locking
rivnuts (thanks Mark, for all the help!), and everything is already
plumber, wired, undercoated, etc... now i have a ser iii filler on one
side, and a ser iia on the other!

p.p.s. leaving for california in the next couple days. gonna be taking the
"northern route" (haven't determined it exactly with a map, but that's what
everyone tells me i hsould to). hopefully my journey will be less eventful
than  ben's

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 12:43:33 EDT
From: "THE X WINDOW SYSTEM: A VMS FOR THE 90S" <brandenberg@wrksys.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice?

>The IMAGE of the rover is
>wonderful "Hey mister..are you going on SAFARI?" "No kid, I just got back..."
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>ROVER..makes every road seem like off road...") This is not a "normal"
>car...(and we are not normal people?)

Perhaps this is good advice but it is also *precisely* what brought
me in to the LandRover fold.  I went on Safari and puttered around
southern Zimbabwe in several SII LandRovers.  Zimbabwe having something
like a 100% duty on imports, old vehicles are wonderfully maintained
there.  The ones I rode in looked like they'd come out of a showroom
(allowing for a few dents and zebra kicks).  Came back with an
apartment full of dead stuff and a love of LandRovers.  And now I
have one along with a refurbishment goal I'll probably never achieve.
If only I could figure out the quart-every-few-hundred-miles leak...
:-)

monty

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 12:37:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Re: Galvanized Chassies.

Oh boy...I'm gunna get burned now ....BUT....
*IF* the old chassis is in good shape the galvination prossess will work
as well on a used one as a new.....the proccess is a hot dip deal that
causes the molten zinc to flow into the inside of the frame...the proccess
also involves the electrodeposision of metal,so the inside gets coated
like the out.....any rust(or paint) goes like popcorn when the frame is
lowered into
the 850 degree zinc!....I had mine done 3 years ago and zippo rust even
here in central new york...when i dropped it off, they had to drill extra
holes in the box sections to prevent pressurizaion(sp) and to allow the
viscous zinc to flow into the small openings of the frame....I have
inspected the inside of the frame with a bore scope and find the inside of
the frame seems to have more zinc than the outside!
I was told by the platers that amy welding repair should be mig welded or
cleaned *really* well as the flux used in stick arc rejects the zinc...

shiny shiny frame...
steve.....

HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP"

Steven M. Denis <denis@oswego.oswego.edu>
PO BOX 61
Erieville,NY 13061

On Tue, 28 Jun 1994, Craig Murray wrote:

> Howdy all,
>                 Just a couple of points my brother brought up about
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> ==============================================================================
> Craig Murray                                            1955 Series 1
> mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 12:02:42 -0600 (CST)
From: "Peace be with you." <GIURIN@resdjg.dnet.lsu.edu>

subscribe lro-digest

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 13:18:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dieselphobia

Oh but to write the flowery prose of Mike Rooth.....
I *LOVE* Rudi's big joke,really!...and I agree with the James Bond
technique for dealing with tailgaters...but the 2.0/2.25 rover is
"notsogood"...and the perkins should stay in the boat it came out of!
It is the impulsiveness of the power at low speeds that twists the shafts
up good.....The TDi is better than sliced bread and most of the
Japo-sneeze stuff is wonderful....But as it is not easely understood by
the lay-person (as apposed to the "LIE-person"at the garage....) it is
tough for me to recommend them to everyone.....

there I go, "rattling" on...
steve....

HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP"

Steven M. Denis <denis@oswego.oswego.edu>
PO BOX 61
Erieville,NY 13061

------------------------------

From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Subject: Re: Ben's Valve Train Problems 
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 11:02:27 PDT

In message <199406281203.IAA23981@transfer.stratus.com> you write:
> Since you won't be able to get a ride until 
> Thursday, you have no excuse not to paint your head.  I like Plasticote Ford 
> Green (#302 I think).  Be sure to clean all the grease off the head with 
> solvent and a rag or paper towels.  The stuff dries fast so apply a number of
> light coats.  Should it die again if nothing else at least it will look good.

	If I can't find a ride today, this will be my project.  At least it
will be something to do.

> Oh, if they fixed a crack, take a light and look and feel down the intake and
>  exhaust runners.  When a cracked head is "stitched" they drill a hole at one
>end of the crack, thread it, screw in a soft tapped plug until it snaps, grind
	The two cracks were along the surface of the head starting at the
edge of the combustion chamber.  They were nowhere near the intake or exhaust
runners.  In fact nothing moving is anywhere near them.  The cracks were 
fixed with two screw plugs put in at a 45 degree angle and are about a cm long.
Both ends were either ground or machined smooth.

Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu

------------------------------

From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice? 
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 11:05:16 PDT

In message <9406281645.AA19955@MIT.EDU> you write:
> p.p.s. leaving for california in the next couple days. gonna be taking the
> "northern route" (haven't determined it exactly with a map, but that's what
> everyone tells me i hsould to). hopefully my journey will be less eventful
> than  ben's
none
	Which northern route?  We may pass on the road.  I'm planning on
US route 2 from Seattle to Michigan (with side trips to see Roy and to see
the North Dakota Badlands).

Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 14:30:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Harry Greenspun <hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Subscription info

Please add me to your mailing list

Thanks.

------------------------------

From: costales@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Bryan Costales)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 12:08:46 -0700
Subject: SFO to Laramie in July

With renewed enthusiasm, I have spent the last few weeks getting ready
for a 900 mile trip to Wyoming. I will be leaving either July 2 or July
3 in the early morning and heading out I-80. I expect to camp in the
east Nevada Ruby Mountains and west Rockies (with perhaps one or two
other stops in addition to those). Any suggestions for great spots
to visit along the way will be greatly appreciated.

Here is a quick description of what I did to get ready and the problems
I had to overcome:

1. Installed a rebuilt head with stellite valve stuff. Got it with
   core exchange from Atlantic British. I first got a new head, but
   it appeared to be seriously misthreaded. I sent that back and
   got a rebuilt head that worked perfectly, except that the temperture
   sensor hole seemed too big. I got a new sensor and it fit better
   (with several wraps of teflon tape). A new summer thermostat and
   non-toxic anitfreeze. I also installed a rebuilt rocker assembly
   from Atlantic British and the #4 and #5 arms were reversed. At this
   point I am starting to develop a low opinion of AB.

2. I installed a 2 barrel Weber also from Atlantic British. The supply
   some funky linkage parts that just plain don't work. I contacted
   Rovers North and got a cable linkage they make. It fit perfectly
   and works like a dream. In retrospect I should have gotten the
   whole weber setup from Rovers North. (Lower opinion of AB).

3. At the recommendation of our neighborhood mechanic, I switched to
   synthetic (motor and 90 weight). No verdict yet, but preliminary
   short drives are fine. Long ago, I installed a spin on adapter,
   so a new oil filter was a breeze. (If you don't have that adapter,
   I recommend you get one).

4. An overdrive and rack round out the picture. I can now cruise at
   60 to 65 on the flat. The Weber runs smoother than either of my
   earlier carbs (a used and a new rochester). The overdrive reduces
   the noise. (I long ago installed boat engine sound deadening form
   under the hood and under the floor mats. The also reduce the
   sound alot.)

5. And of cousrse the usual misc. like timing, adjusting the breaks,
   lubing the zerks, and so on. No surprises here.

Tonight I will be packing the spare parts and list of phone numbers
for repair shops along the way. 

If any of you are in the neighborhood of my route this weekend, look
for a white over red, 1974 series III 88", with a large blue wrapped
package on a galvanize rack, tire on the hood and two gas cans on
the back. 

-- 
Bryan Costales -- Systems Manager, International Computer Science Institute
Internet: bcx@icsi.berkeley.edu                         BITNET: bcx@ucbicsi
37 degrees 52.193 minutes north by 122 degrees 16.277 minutes west 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 13:49:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: James B Russell <jrussell@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: More on the stuck valve saga...

Good luck.  I'll look for you in Seattle since I'm flying up Thursday 
night.  Alas, I will be leavint the Rover in San Francisco.

                  Jim Russell   ====   jrussell@netcom.com
                         (Seattle -- San Francisco)            

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 14:01:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: James B Russell <jrussell@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Howdy all-

Dunno where I picked that info up about the Perkins block (or, at least
that there was som commonality) -- it was long, long ago I heard it (when
I first got my Land-Rover some 18 years ago) which was why I said I might
be all wrong.  Still, common misconceptions usually have some basis and
now I'm kind of curious as to why this one exists.  Could it be that they
(meaning the engines themselves) are often interchanged?  Sounds like we
have at least one instance of that here. 

                  Jim Russell   ====   jrussell@netcom.com
                         (Seattle -- San Francisco)            

On Tue, 28 Jun 1994, Steven M Denis wrote:

> Sorry guys the rover petrol and the rover diesel share a block,but not the
> Perkins....common misconseption....btw..the petrol crank is cast not
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 29 lines)]
> >                   Jim Russell   ====   jrussell@netcom.com
> >                          (Seattle -- San Francisco)            

------------------------------

Subject: Brakes...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 15:18:53 -0500

        As the task for the weekend shall be getting the little Earth pig
        ready for a safety check, a number of items will need to be
        addressed, namely electrics and brakes.  The former have been
        swiped by George to get his 109 going for the Birthday Party, and
        being Honda wires, circa 1965 cap rotor etc. I didn't mind.  The
        brakes just didn't survive the winter and I am not prepared to
        deal with something that is suspect.  It is far safer to replace
        the lot.  For those interested, brake lines do not necessarily
        need to be purchased from Merseyside or Rovers North.  In fact,
        in the former case, they advise that it is far cheaper to buy
        the lines locally than to have them shipped over from the UK.
        Note, all of these lines are double flared.  You can make them
        up yourself with the proper tools, with the original ends from
        the lines you removed, or purchase new ends.  Some suppliers
        also stock generic lines with the ends in premeasured lengths.

        Land Rover (IIa)    Description         Ends        Length
        Brake lines:
        277922              Front left          M - F       72 inches
        277923              Front Right         M - F       31 inches
        279418              Junction to Rear    M - F       58 inches
        504517              Rear left           M - M       42 inches
        592375              Rear right          M - M       22 inches

        Flex lines:
        RTC3353             Flex lines          Lucas part # gph90
        Note:  The rear flex line carried a different number from the
               109.  The 109 used three of the RTC3353 lines, the 88
               rear flex line is RTC3386.  For simplicity, I have
               used the 109 on my 88.  Makes keeping spares simplier,
               especially when you own four of each wheelbase.

        Cylinders:
        520849              CB brake master     Girling part # SP1980
        243296              88" front right        "      "    SP2051
        243297              88" front left         "      "    SP2051
        243302              88" rear right         "      "    SP1215
        243303              88" rear left          "      "    SP1215

        Shoes:
        RTC3411             Front & rear brake shoes
        Note:  This assumes that you have not been swaping axles around
               that tends to be a habit up here.  A 109 front axles
               certainly helps an 88 stop a wee bit faster...

        Rgds,

        Dixon

--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 17:08:51 -0500
From: hiner@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Greg Hiner)
Subject: Alternative Parts - 1st draft

To all those that responded to the call for a list of alternative parts
thanks. Here is the first draft. I haven't done much other than put
everything I received into one document. Later I will spruce it up but for
now I was hoping to put this out and perhaps get more additions. I have
tried to keep the names of people with their suggestions but in some cases
I lost the info. Let me know if you are one of them.

Greg

PS - don't forget the RoverWeb - http://whitman.gar.utexas.edu:1500/

******************Distributor******************

FYI...the vw distributors work in the 2.25 landie..but the rotation is
backwards....mechanical"retard" not advance!....still might get ya' home some
night! Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>

Date: 24 Jun 94 13:24:01 EDT
From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Alternative Parts

GREAT STUFF
MY ENGINE DIED AT NIGHT BECAUSE OF A DISTRIBATOR PROBLEM. COULD NOT FIND A
RELPACEMENT FOR MY 1966 109' WAGON WITH A 50'S ENGINE. FINIALLY SOMEONE
SUGGESTED GOING TO A JAGUAR SHOP.....GOT A LUCAS DDB117[54417212]
DISTRIBUTOR..WORKS BETTER THAN THE ORGINAL.
BENJAMIN

From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@amail.mot.com
Date: 24 Jun 94 12:53:19 -0600
Subject: RE: Alternative Parts

actually the distrubutor is used on several english cars such as the austin
mini
for that fact any a series engine. on another note the four cylinder datsun
with
electronic distributors are the same diameter and length as  the minis and i
suppose the landrovers.thus making it a almost identical swap, the only
difference is the distributor drive which is held by a pin. a small
modification
is needed to fit the standard rover drive on but it does work. the datsun
distrubutor also has vacumm and centrifical advance, yippee...make sure the
distrubutor turns the same direction as your original rover.!!! one more thing
the electrical unit is all attached to the distributor and any moron can hook
her up...

Series 3 distributors will go into Series 2.

**********************Seals***************

Indeed. Case in point: Hub oil seals. Use National/Federal Mogul #410694
American-made, *double lipped* (so's not to ride on the distance piece along the
same path as the single-lipped OEM's or "GP's"), with sealing compound already
applied to the outside face. About $6 at any bearing shop. While we're mucking
about the hubs, lock tab washers: International Harvester #860291R1 have a
little "foot" to ride in the groove on the hub. <p>Sandy Grice, Rover Owners'
Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 10:37:27 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: Alternative Parts
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII

Transmission oil seals;

These are National Oil Seal/Federal Mogul numbers

              Atlantic Britsh cat. number

CR16254           13   output shaft
CR19359           12   trans to transfer case
CR6143           573   speedo drive plate

Wheel hub seal;

410694           330

*************Master Cylinder*****************************

David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA> said that a 1970 something brake
master cylinder bolted up to the Land Rover and worked fine. The brake cylenders
I mentioned are from 72 Hornet, 68 Ambassador or 66 Classics. The work very well
on the power assisted brake units in the Land Rover.

***************Bearings*******************************

Bearings - readily available - just take the old one with you.

***************Shocks************************************

Shocks -  U.S. replacements are Gabriel Gas Ryder Ltd Shocks for your machine.
The numbers are G63494 and G63299.  The longer ones go on the back.  David John
Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>

************ Diffs ********************************

Rover car diffs from the 1950's P4 range (90's, 100's etc.) drop
in.

************ U-joints ********************************

U-joints AEC Brand

AEC 521 HD       286    U-joint 2 15/16" across (late)
AEC 504         3092    U-joint 2 7/32"  across (early)

************ Engines ********************************
From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Southern Engine transplants.
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 18:35:19 +0930 (CST)
Cc: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]

Robin  writes:
> it never ceases to amaze me as to the possibilites of engine transplants
> that our southern hemisphere friends can put out! the mind boggles as to
> what they must have tried that didnt work!
none

Cant think of any commonly available powerplant that doesnt have an adaptor
plate available from someone, somewhere down under.
The ones I can think of off of the top of my head which I have seen at least
one of over the years include:

Holden (GM) 6cyl and V8  (most popular)
Chev V8
Valiant (chrysler) 225ci 6cyl, OZ 215, 245 & 265ci 6cyl, V8 (273,318)
Ford 6cyl (x-flow and non-x-flow), V8 (windsor fits really neatly)
Rover/Buick V8 and derivatives (inc 4.4L P76 V8)
Rover 3L 6cyl
Perkins diesels
Nissan diesels
Diahatsu diesels

There must be some that I've forgotten.  In addition there used to be an
after-market turbo kit for the 2.25 diesel.

Once saw a turbo 3.3L Holden six in an 88" , accelerated like a scalded cat,
but not much use otherwise.

****************Wipers*****************

The windshield wiper motors used on most
boats ( can get the name of mine if you want it) work great for the
rear wiper set up on the stationwagon.David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>

****************Alternators*************

The best alternator repalacement is the
Delcotron which has a built in regulator so you don't have to worry
about the condition of the old Land Rover one. They are readily
available at any junk yard in the US.David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>

****************Soft Tops*****************

Parts to make soft tops are
always available at boat top places. The nylon slides, clamps etc
fit regular conduit. To make the front attachment for the
windshield, go to a trailer shop and order a piece of aluminum
canopy track. It is the kind roap slides into on the side of a
trailer. It is better than the original because it is not only
waterproof, but winds wont get under it when you are on the
highway.David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>

***************Hoses********************

For Range Rovers, I know from experience that there is a Gates
flexible radiator hose that works for the top hose, but none for
the bottom (at least 89 up, with the t junction hose).

***************Misc**********************

RR - I noticed the door lock mechanism had a GM stamp on it when I had
mine apart recently.

RR - The electric seat controls alledgedly come from Mercedes, but I
doubt if the prices are much different from them.

RR - The air conditioning is a Sandia unit commonly used in many makes
in the US, and parts probably a lot cheaper from a/c shops than LR
dealers.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 17:27:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Howdy all-

Craig.  I have all the pieces from a diesel I took apart.  I don't wa}int
to go this way again, but can I just push out the sleeves in the block and
use it as a petrol?  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 17:41:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Howdy all- 

Hi Craig.  Yes the bull nose pully is probably a name we Canucks use for
the fan belt pully that the starter handle dog screws into.  The diesel
one is quite heavy and I was going to use it but my mechanic friend said I
should go with the lighter petrol one.  About the sleeves.  I guess you
could be right.  I thought the Land Rover block was made without sleeves
and that if you took out any sleeves you would be down to the water
jacket.  It would make sense however if you were going to make one block
do for both engines just make a different sleeve and presto you have a
diesel block.  I had a petrol with one bad cylinder wall and I could have
just put in a sleeve and used the old block.  Well live and learn.  This
is why the Internet is so great.  There is so much knowledge out there if
you ask.  I would not have gone the II route when I had the IIA that could
have been fixed.  One idea this gives me is to put all my spare parts into
another engine and have a spare for the next time I throw a rod etc.  Thanks
Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 18:34:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Isolated Ground Return

While looking through the new J.C. Whitney catalogue, I came across an
electronic rust control system for $149.99 for the standard and $199 for
what they say is a shock resistant off road version.  I am an old ham
radio operator and from the discription of how it workks, I would say it
should work just fine.  I suspect that the less expensive way is as I
described it the other day.  Use boat motor anodes.  The electronic system
uses anodes too, but they are controlled by some kind of microprocessor
which seems to sense the currents and sends signals in the form of ion
changes to the metal parts.  It might be worth a try .  I still think
however that the + ground system the English invented was not so bad.  I
am an informed consumer level type not an engineer, but physics says that
+ charged areas are deficient in electrons so they flow toward the + area.
 This is a type of system electroplating uses.  I guess you wouldn't at
least remove ions and thus metal set up this way.  Just a thought. Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 20:33:02 -0500

There has been alot of mention of the changing faces of the two current 
monthly Land Rover magazines in Britain.

There are more and bigger changes to come around the corner.

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 12:22:36 -0600 (CST)
From: Damian Hogan <hogan@tais.telecom.com.au>
Subject: subscribe lro-digest

subscribe lro-digest

------------------------------

From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Re: Howdy all- 
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 94 13:10:23 EST

> Craig.  I have all the pieces from a diesel I took apart.  I don't wa}int
> to go this way again, but can I just push out the sleeves in the block and
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> to go this way again, but can I just push out the sleeves in the block and
> use it as a petrol?  Dave VE4PN
I believe so, I know you can use the crank and the fly wheel, and as the
fly wheel is soo much heavier, it should give you some more torque.  You 
will have to replace the head with a petrol one, and you will also need
pistons, and a distributor, and manifolds thou.  If you use the desiel crank,
you will never break it.

==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                            1955 Series 1 86"
mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                            2.25 desiel (Soon!)

------------------------------

From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Re: A Landrover ride. WOW!
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 94 13:23:35 EST

> >They have a large collection of classic and not-so-classic
> >vehicles, how-it-works displays, videos, etc. Oh, and a gift
> >shop (of course).

This museum has R01, the first pre-production Land Rover built,
shame it was not restored correctly, one of the Darien Gap Range Rovers,
the 1 millionth Land Rover, a pre-production discovery, and a few other 
historic vehicles.

> >The vehicle I got to ride in was a brand new (400 miles on the
> >odometer) Landrover Defender 110. 2.? liter turbodiesel/5 speed,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> >(~$30,000 US). Apparently this is about average for one of 
> >these types of vehicles.

This is news to me, I did not know you could get diff locks on a Land Rover,
to my knowledge, you cannot get them, only aftermarket places make, them.
Don't you hate it when people confuse the centre diff lock with diff locks on
axles.

> >This is a big truck. It has a wheelbase several inches longer
> >than a full size Bronco/Blazer, but is a little narrower. My
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 43 lines)]
> >Landrovers/Rangerovers have the best engineered off-road suspension
> >available in the world. After this ride I'm inclined to agree.

This guy is finally waking up to what a piece of junk he is probably driving,
and that what is going round, os probably designed not to even test the
ability of the vehicle.

> >At one point the driver took us up on a side hill that had us
> >leaning _way_ over. I was getting pretty gripped, and it wasn't
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> >tires, suspension, etc., or if we were just lucky. Anyway, I 
> >was impressed (again) with the stability of the truck.

This guy doesn't know that Land Rover quotes a side slope ability of 45
degrees, so 30 degrees is nothing, and the main reason that the vehicle is so
stable on side slopes, is that the body weighs bugger all, and all, so all
of the weight is in the chassie, providing an extreamly low centre of gravity.
> >Undoubtedly, some of this Landrover's feats were made possible
> >by the dual locking diffs. However, this vehicle still would
> >have had an amazing amount of off-road capability even without
> >them, I'm sure.
none

Again, some-one should shock this guy and explain what the diff lock is used 
for in the defender.

==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                            1955 Series 1 86"
mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                            2.25 desiel (Soon!)

==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                            1955 Series 1 86"
mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                            2.25 desiel (Soon!)

------------------------------

From: LandRover@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 23:48:05 EDT
Subject: Re: Dieselphobia

Mike Rooth writes....
>Now,why do I get the impression(faint,but nevertheless,pursuing)
>that Steve doesnt like diesels?Consider,dear sir,the advantages.

Actually, Steve LOVES diesels.. It's just that he spent months riding around
in his 109 wearing ear protection. His comment - "louder than a Siberian
Boiler Factory"..
And hid DID do a very nice conversion with a Nissan diesel to an 88. Not to
mention owning a diesel VW vanagon, diesel VW Jetta and a diesel VW Rabbit..
(Yeah, I know Steve.. you DON'T have any of them anymore!!) He did convince
me that diesel is the way to go. (I bought his Rabbit). Now if I can only
drop a diesel in my Spitfire.....
Cheers
Mike Loiodice
landrover@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 01:37:19 -0400
From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong)
Subject: Re: A Landrover ride. WOW!

Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au> writes:
>This guy is finally waking up to what a piece of junk he is probably driving,
>and that what is going round, os probably designed not to even test the
>ability of the vehicle.
none

You said it!  I've been on this ride twice!  The first time there were some 
"civilians" so it was kinda lame.  The second time, it was just us 
roverheads and we had made friends with the driver from the first ride so he 
tried a bit harder.  Still nothing crazy mind you - but yes nothing can 
anyway near to pushing the limits of a COIL SPRUNG TDI! YES! YES! YES! TDI! 
TDI! TDI!

ahem...so sorry

The side angle part of the track is heavily textured concrete and is maybe 
25 degrees (always looks like more than it really is) but is really a thrill 
because there is SO MUCH grip and you're heeled over so much you just want 
to reach out and touch the ground!   No where near the limit but still quite 
thrilling!  

I have an inclinometer in the rover ($7 from West Marine - a ball bearing 
slides in a circular tube to show you heeling angle) and 45 degrees looks 
really frightful!

TDI! TDI! TDI!

 John Hong 
(jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax)

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 

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