Re: [lro] Defender Axels - is it ok to weld the exel andthedive flange

From: Gbrovers@aol.com
Date: Tue Feb 25 2003 - 11:26:58 EST

  • Next message: Mike Rogers: "Re: [lro] Vehicle Hire/Insurance question"

    In a message dated 2/1/03 12:15:30 AM, paul@adventures.co.za writes:

    << > A quick comment on welding flanges to axles. Personally I wouldn't
    do it
    > unless I had an axle/flange combo that had excessive wear and I was just
    > trying to bodge back together as a temporary fix. The problem with welding
    > heat treated parts together is that you effect the heat treatment on the
    > existing parts and now you have a weld that is totally different hardness.
    > This creates serious stress risers and this is where the stress cracks will
    > eventually develop and hence this is the point where the axle will
    eventually
    > fail.

    Sorry, Bill, but nonsense! The parts are immobilised. All you are preventing
    is the couple of
    thou of movement between the splines. The welded joint takes no other stress
    at all.

    Paul
        Sorry about the delay in responding to this. I have been moving and way
    behind (even more so than normal) on lots of things. Anyway, I respectfully
    disagree. Welding a joint such as this is going to affect the heat treatment
    of all of the parts in question. Its not a big deal if all you ever do is
    putt around in the bush or strip malls with your Rover but if you are using
    it in an extreme manner, this welded portion is susceptible to cracking
    because under extreme usage everything is flexing and stress cracks tend to
    develop at these heat treat transitions, which is a stress riser. If you want
    to weld it and then seriously thrash the rig, I would have the axle/flange
    stress relieved. There are various ways to do it but if you were going to all
    of that trouble, why not just buy better upgraded parts. When you are
    designing and building high performance drivetrain parts you specifically try
    to eliminate these types of stress risers.
        In my opinion, I would still classify welding sloppy drive flanges to the
    axles as a "bush" fix. Noting of coarse that there isn't anything wrong with
    "bush" fixes as I have employed many of them myself over the years as
    circumstances dictated such.

        A couple of other points about spline wear on drive flanges that weren't
    mentioned but should be for the sake of our collective communal knowledge.
    Besides wildly different heat treat levels between the axle and flanges (the
    problem with Series Salisbury's) and excessive backlash to start with (the
    problem with Series 10 spline axles), there are a couple of other reasons
    that cause excessive drive flange spline wear as follows:

    1) Bent axle cases. The causes wear because every time the axle/flange makes
    a rotation the splines rock back and forth. This can also effect the side
    gear splines in the diff. You can also cause axle shaft failures with bent
    axle cases because the shaft can bind on the spindle that it is now in
    contact with. This generally isn't a problem with Rovers because there is
    lots of clearance in this area. If you welded your axles/driveflanges in this
    situation, the welded area would probably eventually break.

    2) Excessive play in the wheel bearings. Same reason as above, this creates
    movement between the shaft and the flange that really shouldn't be there.
    This is why you should adjust your wheel bearings correctly and/or on the
    slightly tight side.

    3) Dry splines - a splined joint should be "wet", meaning that the joint
    should be lubricated, usually gear oil. This lubrication cushions and
    lubricates the splines in operation. When Rover added rear axle case oil
    seals on the ABS equipped Range Rovers in 1990, they retained a two piece
    rear axle. This was a dry spline setup and a few years later, stripped out
    drive flanges on these rigs started appearing regularly. This is why Rover
    converted these to a one piece axle (integral drive flange), which eliminated
    the splined joint and hence the problem. Another example of this type of
    spline wear problem is between the coupling of an LT 77 transmission and the
    LT 230 transfer box on later model Rovers. Rover eliminated this by either
    installing an oil slinger to throw oil up on the joint if it wasn't worn
    excessively or installing a cross drilled gear if it was worn and in need of
    replacement.

    Bill
    GBR
    _______________________________________________
    LRO mailing list
    LRO@land-rover.team.net
    http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Tue Feb 25 2003 - 13:04:58 EST