At 11:00 AM 6/29/2001 -1000, you wrote:
>Are big FAT tires really better for off roading or is it just a myth that
>the Wider the tires, the longer the equipment of the operator. I'm a big
>proponent of ground clearance though have found 32" tires get me where I
>want to go. With all respect to Peter H. can't see anything wider than a
>9.5" tire on a 2 1/4 powered series truck. Also can't imagine a taller
>tire than 33" on a series without widening the track. You'd huli the
>truck on a 20 degree sideslope with anything bigger. Just because the
>mall poseurs take along ladders to climb into the cab, doesn't mean they
>really work off road. More likely it's just a vain fashion statement to
>impress the chicks. Peter H's comments against Defender owners also
>applies to the big tire American Iron crowd. Of course, when you take
>your 143" wheelbase extended cab pickup, with custom pinstriping and
>graphics, offroad, you need 40" tires to get the same breakover angle as a
>Series on 31" tires. With a wheel base that long you aren't going to get
>far off road, in any case.
>
>As far as Joe, it sounds like he ought to strip the rusty body off his
>scout, buy a bulkhead, rear tub, fenders, and breakfast, adjust the Scout
>frame accordingly and graft the body onto the Scout Frame. The only thing
>that will be left of the series is the look. Why waste a good series
>doing this. If all he wants is the looks, its easier and cheaper to do it
>with parts than butchering a whole truck. Hell, if he wants to pay the
>shipping, I'll give him an 88 tub that is pre customized for rock
>work. If he insists on Rover underpinnings, a coil frame and donations
>from a RR may get him what he wants. Though that conversion may not be cheap.
ok, how much does it weigh? whaqt are the dimensions? and where are you?
>Some modifications to a series make sense. A more efficient, more
>powerful motor would be nice to have but not a big American V8 unless
i'm not a fan of V8's, and in any case, only a small american v-8 would fit
in a landrover w/o serious modifications
>you're also going to swap in an appropriate transmission and
>axles. Especially on a 109, power steering would be nice, your going to
>be doing a lot of wheel twisting to get that long wheelbase, huge turning
>circle vehicle into even open spaces. Of course, if you had 9.5" or
power steeri ng is nothing, it's power brakes i want
>narrower tires, power steering wouldn't be needed quite so much. Only
>drastic modifications to the front suspension will get you a lot more
>articulation. More cost effective to just install parabolics and put
>lockers all round. Extending the spring mounts and putting on longer front
A spring over can do pretty well
>springs and shock towers won't get you nearly as far as the above
>modification. A way to get the road cruising speed up a little at a more
>comfortable rpm would be nice, especially if your running 100hp or
>so. Going faster than 70mph on ANY off road capable truck is
>irresponsible and dangerous to the rest of us. An offroad capable truck
>is physically unsuitable for highspeed on road work. Yeah, you can
I have to agree here. if properly built, a "off-road capable" truck can
sustain high speeds. I have several freinds who race scouts, those scots
are bilt diffrent than the rockcrawlers they own
>put air springs and electronic suspension (sound familiar) to lower and
>stiffen the suspension for road work and then pump it up and give the
>wheel travel needed for off road work. For most of us mortals, the
>combination of high CG for ground clearance and the reliability of springs
>and mechanical suspension means we have to drive prudently on the road.
oh, defiently. I used to drive semi's, i don't take chances
>Use a little common sense in how you want to modify your Series truck. If
>you want a gonzo rock crawler, it ain't a series truck. With a few
series trucks aren't rock crawlers?
>judicious and cost effective changes, you can have a series truck that
>will get you almost anywhere that 4 wheels will go, however, and still
>have a vehicle that bears a close resemblance to the Series Truck that you
>started with. Don't spend a lot of money on a paint job, if your going to
>USE your truck off road. You WILL be customizing the body work.
almost anywhere is the problem. a stock 4wd can handls most 3 rated
trails, but i'm moving towards 5 rated trails.
Joe
>Aloha
>Peter O
>
>>From: "Hope Peter" <hope_peter@bah.com>
>>Reply-To: lro@works.team.net
>>To: <lro@Works.Team.Net>
>>Subject: LRO: Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned
>>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:41:49 -1000
>>
>> >
>> > While I respect you a lot as you bring a lot of experience to the list,
>>it pains me that your statements ring true. I know many leafers don't care
>>about coiler guys, and that permeates with your attitudes. It seeps into
>>the persona of off-road events, and generally makes for a difficult time
>>planning events between the two groups. Those of us who own coil-sprung
>>rovers and actually are enthusiasts tend to appreciate the series trucks and
>>learn what we can about the heritage of our marque.
>>
>>
>>Unfortunately for some of us leafers we don't meet many coilers that fall
>>into this description.
>>A couple of us Series guys on island have taken the time to stop and chat
>>with coilers and invite them to participate on our trips and get togethers.
>>Pretty much get treated like we are not good enough for them. I am not
>>talking about the station wagon soccer moms either. If it's a stock
>>looking, new, scratchless Rangie or Disco I don't bother any more. I am
>>talking about the guys/girls that have off road tires, bars, lights, racks
>>etc. Ask em to go off roading, they think you mean drive through the
>>pineapple fields or to Keana Pt. Tell em we mean Peacock Flats, the
>>Kahuku's, or the training areas of Schoffield. Tell them about the knee
>>deep mud, how Kevin and I have both flooded our engines, about the time I
>>had water up to my seat cushions and they get this look on their face like
>>we are talking about going to mars. These people have the pushbars so they
>>dont scratch their fenders in parking lots. They thought that those three
>>white round disks on the front just let people know they spent more $$$ on
>>their vehicle. Don't really use the lights, because that would mean getting
>>ut of the vehicle to remove the covers. The roof rack is to put the beach
>>chairs on so you don't get sand in the vehicle. The tires, well it's a
>>truck, ya have to have truck tires ona truck. The three Defender guys I
>>have met on Island bought the "image". They have money and want everyone to
>>know. Oh they also have a Benz and a BMW Z-3. You know, the people who
>>think Series means new Disco, or the "early Defender", or the vehicle used
>>by the Desert Rats in North Africa during WWII. Had one guy go into this
>>long explanation about how the Range Rover company designed the Land Rover
>>for a British oil company in the 50's for oil exploration and they were
>>never sold to the general public. Other oil companies, logging companies,
>>mines, etc were the only one that got them.
>>
>>I have met some of the people from this list that own coilers and I know
>>that my above rant is not a blanket statement against all coilers, but it
>>does describe the majority of coil owners. It has been mentioned on this
>>list in the past that hopefully Ford realises that there exists a market for
>>a true utility type 4x4. I hope they do, but you know what, I think the
>>market is very, very, very small. Ford bought a Name. If the Defender line
>>continues, in less then 10 years it will be an aerodynamic, unibody design
>>vehicle with crumple zones, molded plastic bumpers, airbags, and all the
>>electric gadgets you can imagine. Some people believe that this elctrickery
>>makes the vehicle more reliable, recent dsicussion on the Mendo list about
>>this. People didn't believe me when I claimed to have had many vehicles
>>towed into our shop for sensor related failures, including one GM car that
>>had it's brakes lock up when the ABS system went out. If you are looking
>>for something that doesn't require much in the way of maintance, then buy a
>>brand new vehicle and swap it out every 3-4 years. But dont try and tell me
>>that a 10 yo EFI vehicle is more reliable then a Series vehicle would have
>>been when it was 10 years old. And if you believe that a coiler is more
>>reliable then a leafer how about a $for$ comparison. I will wager a months
>>pay that if two people both had the same budget, the one that puts all the
>>money into new parts for a Series rig will have a more relaible vehicle then
>>the person that buys a Disco II.
>>
>>I am not saying that coil sprung vehicle are bad. I would love to get a
>>1975 2 door rangie. Maybe swap out the duel SU/Stromberg carbs for webers,
>>but I would be happy with the rest of the package. For my next project I
>>want to build a coil 109 with a dormie top. Diesel engine and auto tranny.
>>Hope Joe does build his Series so I can learn from his experiance. I can't
>>wait to get to the PacNorWest and meet some of the people up there and see
>>how they have built their rigs. From the photos I have seen and the people
>>I have talked to, hope I can talk Timm Cooper into letting me an apprentice
>>for a while. To me the Rover is a big lego set. I like the looks. I like
>>working on them. I enjoy the simplicity and the funny quirks. I love that
>>I had to remove the radiator in order to take off the steering relay, I
>>still laugh at that one. I like the small 4 cyl in the 88 and the low
>>gearing. Yes I drive in more mud then rock crawling and I "rednecked" the
>>88 by putting 33's on it, but they are working great for me. I do cringe at
>>times when I think about what I have done to my vehicle and know there are
>>people out there that probably think I have truely ruined the vehicle. But
>>I am happy with it. The only thing I have done that isn non-reversable is
>>to change the shape of the rear wheel wells. If I ever got rid of the
>>thing, someone could get a stock chassis and springs it it would be a stock
>>series again. Show of hands, who remembers the kid that wanted to put 33's
>>and a v-8 in a Series rig? he was run off pretty quick. Think some are
>>trying the same with Joe, and am sure that if I had started out discussing
>>my plans I would have been run off also. BTW I found this list sometime in
>>mid 97, but never posted until May 98 when I found out about the move to
>>Hawaii, and asked about Rovers for sale here. Other then asking questions,
>>I stayed pretty quiete for another year. I saw alot of how the
>>non-traditionalist were treated and didn't want any part of it.
>>Well that is enough for now I am sure,
>>Pete
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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Joe Dufresne, josad@networld.com; ICQ# 25751950;
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
"Don't shoot to kill, shoot to live!"
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Mon Jul 02 2001 - 12:41:26 EDT