Forgot about muddy, know your one of the proponents of big and I believe fat
tires. I've got nothing against tall rubber, just the fat stuff driven by a
the puny 71hp of a stock series. Believe your running MT's also, could the
tread be the difference. An awful lot of people seem to be wimping out and
putting AT's on their Rovers. Fine tires for most conditions until it rains
or gets rocky. Would a 33 or 34x9.50 MT work just as well as a 35x12.50x15.
Next time your flush, why don't you buy a set of tall skinnier tires and
do a test for us.
Also I believe your worst conditions are bottomless muck when the horrors of
winter finally give up their freezing grip on the bosom of mother earth.
These are the kind of conditions, like sand, where your trying to climb the
bow wave on spinning tires before gravity sucks you into the trough. A very
important time to be able to motivate but limited in duration.
That's a great scenario for gobs of horsepower. I keep opening the
hoods/bonnets of my Rovers and have never been overwhelmed by the gobs
running around in there. Besides, Gobs isn't necessarily an essential part
of offroading. Thought it interesting that one of American 4WD Rags did a
big article on prepping an ultimate rock crawler that started life as a Jeep
Wrangler. Not much left of the Wrangler when they finished except the 4
cylinder engine.
Aloha
Peter O.
>From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield)
>Reply-To: lro@works.team.net
>To: lro@Works.Team.Net
>Subject: Re: LRO: Prejudices wasKinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil
>comments bewarned
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 13:09:41 -0300
>
>Peter, ask anyone who has seen old Muddy offroad if 35inch tires are
>just for posing.
>John....and Muddy
>
>Peter Ogilvie wrote:
> >
> > Are big FAT tires really better for off roading or is it just a myth
>that
> > the Wider the tires, the longer the equipment of the operator. I'm a
>big
> > proponent of ground clearance though have found 32" tires get me where I
> > want to go. With all respect to Peter H. can't see anything wider than
>a
> > 9.5" tire on a 2 1/4 powered series truck. Also can't imagine a taller
>tire
> > than 33" on a series without widening the track. You'd huli the truck
>on a
> > 20 degree sideslope with anything bigger. Just because the mall poseurs
> > take along ladders to climb into the cab, doesn't mean they really work
>off
> > road. More likely it's just a vain fashion statement to impress the
>chicks.
> > Peter H's comments against Defender owners also applies to the big
>tire
> > American Iron crowd. Of course, when you take your 143" wheelbase
>extended
> > cab pickup, with custom pinstriping and graphics, offroad, you need 40"
> > tires to get the same breakover angle as a Series on 31" tires. With a
> > wheel base that long you aren't going to get far off road, in any case.
> >
> > As far as Joe, it sounds like he ought to strip the rusty body off his
> > scout, buy a bulkhead, rear tub, fenders, and breakfast, adjust the
>Scout
> > frame accordingly and graft the body onto the Scout Frame. The only
>thing
> > that will be left of the series is the look. Why waste a good series
>doing
> > this. If all he wants is the looks, its easier and cheaper to do it
>with
> > parts than butchering a whole truck. Hell, if he wants to pay the
>shipping,
> > I'll give him an 88 tub that is pre customized for rock work. If he
>insists
> > on Rover underpinnings, a coil frame and donations from a RR may get him
> > what he wants. Though that conversion may not be cheap.
> >
> > Some modifications to a series make sense. A more efficient, more
>powerful
> > motor would be nice to have but not a big American V8 unless you're also
> > going to swap in an appropriate transmission and axles. Especially on a
> > 109, power steering would be nice, your going to be doing a lot of wheel
> > twisting to get that long wheelbase, huge turning circle vehicle into
>even
> > open spaces. Of course, if you had 9.5" or narrower tires, power
>steering
> > wouldn't be needed quite so much. Only drastic modifications to the
>front
> > suspension will get you a lot more articulation. More cost effective to
> > just install parabolics and put lockers all round. Extending the spring
> > mounts and putting on longer front springs and shock towers won't get
>you
> > nearly as far as the above modification. A way to get the road cruising
> > speed up a little at a more comfortable rpm would be nice, especially if
> > your running 100hp or so. Going faster than 70mph on ANY off road
>capable
> > truck is irresponsible and dangerous to the rest of us. An offroad
>capable
> > truck is physically unsuitable for highspeed on road work. Yeah, you
>can
> > put air springs and electronic suspension (sound familiar) to lower and
> > stiffen the suspension for road work and then pump it up and give the
>wheel
> > travel needed for off road work. For most of us mortals, the
>combination of
> > high CG for ground clearance and the reliability of springs and
>mechanical
> > suspension means we have to drive prudently on the road.
> >
> > Use a little common sense in how you want to modify your Series truck.
>If
> > you want a gonzo rock crawler, it ain't a series truck. With a few
> > judicious and cost effective changes, you can have a series truck that
>will
> > get you almost anywhere that 4 wheels will go, however, and still have a
> > vehicle that bears a close resemblance to the Series Truck that you
>started
> > with. Don't spend a lot of money on a paint job, if your going to USE
>your
> > truck off road. You WILL be customizing the body work.
> >
> > Aloha
> > Peter O
> >
> > >From: "Hope Peter" <hope_peter@bah.com>
> > >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net
> > >To: <lro@Works.Team.Net>
> > >Subject: LRO: Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned
> > >Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:41:49 -1000
> > >
> > > >
> > > > While I respect you a lot as you bring a lot of experience to the
> > >list,
> > >it pains me that your statements ring true. I know many leafers don't
>care
> > >about coiler guys, and that permeates with your attitudes. It seeps
>into
> > >the persona of off-road events, and generally makes for a difficult
>time
> > >planning events between the two groups. Those of us who own
>coil-sprung
> > >rovers and actually are enthusiasts tend to appreciate the series
>trucks
> > >and
> > >learn what we can about the heritage of our marque.
> > >
> > >
> > >Unfortunately for some of us leafers we don't meet many coilers that
>fall
> > >into this description.
> > >A couple of us Series guys on island have taken the time to stop and
>chat
> > >with coilers and invite them to participate on our trips and get
>togethers.
> > >Pretty much get treated like we are not good enough for them. I am not
> > >talking about the station wagon soccer moms either. If it's a stock
> > >looking, new, scratchless Rangie or Disco I don't bother any more. I
>am
> > >talking about the guys/girls that have off road tires, bars, lights,
>racks
> > >etc. Ask em to go off roading, they think you mean drive through the
> > >pineapple fields or to Keana Pt. Tell em we mean Peacock Flats, the
> > >Kahuku's, or the training areas of Schoffield. Tell them about the
>knee
> > >deep mud, how Kevin and I have both flooded our engines, about the time
>I
> > >had water up to my seat cushions and they get this look on their face
>like
> > >we are talking about going to mars. These people have the pushbars so
>they
> > >dont scratch their fenders in parking lots. They thought that those
>three
> > >white round disks on the front just let people know they spent more $$$
>on
> > >their vehicle. Don't really use the lights, because that would mean
> > >getting
> > >ut of the vehicle to remove the covers. The roof rack is to put the
>beach
> > >chairs on so you don't get sand in the vehicle. The tires, well it's a
> > >truck, ya have to have truck tires ona truck. The three Defender guys
>I
> > >have met on Island bought the "image". They have money and want
>everyone
> > >to
> > >know. Oh they also have a Benz and a BMW Z-3. You know, the people
>who
> > >think Series means new Disco, or the "early Defender", or the vehicle
>used
> > >by the Desert Rats in North Africa during WWII. Had one guy go into
>this
> > >long explanation about how the Range Rover company designed the Land
>Rover
> > >for a British oil company in the 50's for oil exploration and they were
> > >never sold to the general public. Other oil companies, logging
>companies,
> > >mines, etc were the only one that got them.
> > >
> > >I have met some of the people from this list that own coilers and I
>know
> > >that my above rant is not a blanket statement against all coilers, but
>it
> > >does describe the majority of coil owners. It has been mentioned on
>this
> > >list in the past that hopefully Ford realises that there exists a
>market
> > >for
> > >a true utility type 4x4. I hope they do, but you know what, I think
>the
> > >market is very, very, very small. Ford bought a Name. If the Defender
> > >line
> > >continues, in less then 10 years it will be an aerodynamic, unibody
>design
> > >vehicle with crumple zones, molded plastic bumpers, airbags, and all
>the
> > >electric gadgets you can imagine. Some people believe that this
> > >elctrickery
> > >makes the vehicle more reliable, recent dsicussion on the Mendo list
>about
> > >this. People didn't believe me when I claimed to have had many
>vehicles
> > >towed into our shop for sensor related failures, including one GM car
>that
> > >had it's brakes lock up when the ABS system went out. If you are
>looking
> > >for something that doesn't require much in the way of maintance, then
>buy a
> > >brand new vehicle and swap it out every 3-4 years. But dont try and
>tell
> > >me
> > >that a 10 yo EFI vehicle is more reliable then a Series vehicle would
>have
> > >been when it was 10 years old. And if you believe that a coiler is
>more
> > >reliable then a leafer how about a $for$ comparison. I will wager a
>months
> > >pay that if two people both had the same budget, the one that puts all
>the
> > >money into new parts for a Series rig will have a more relaible vehicle
> > >then
> > >the person that buys a Disco II.
> > >
> > >I am not saying that coil sprung vehicle are bad. I would love to get
>a
> > >1975 2 door rangie. Maybe swap out the duel SU/Stromberg carbs for
>webers,
> > >but I would be happy with the rest of the package. For my next project
>I
> > >want to build a coil 109 with a dormie top. Diesel engine and auto
>tranny.
> > >Hope Joe does build his Series so I can learn from his experiance. I
>can't
> > >wait to get to the PacNorWest and meet some of the people up there and
>see
> > >how they have built their rigs. From the photos I have seen and the
>people
> > >I have talked to, hope I can talk Timm Cooper into letting me an
>apprentice
> > >for a while. To me the Rover is a big lego set. I like the looks. I
>like
> > >working on them. I enjoy the simplicity and the funny quirks. I love
>that
> > >I had to remove the radiator in order to take off the steering relay, I
> > >still laugh at that one. I like the small 4 cyl in the 88 and the low
> > >gearing. Yes I drive in more mud then rock crawling and I "rednecked"
>the
> > >88 by putting 33's on it, but they are working great for me. I do
>cringe
> > >at
> > >times when I think about what I have done to my vehicle and know there
>are
> > >people out there that probably think I have truely ruined the vehicle.
>But
> > >I am happy with it. The only thing I have done that isn non-reversable
>is
> > >to change the shape of the rear wheel wells. If I ever got rid of the
> > >thing, someone could get a stock chassis and springs it it would be a
>stock
> > >series again. Show of hands, who remembers the kid that wanted to put
>33's
> > >and a v-8 in a Series rig? he was run off pretty quick. Think some
>are
> > >trying the same with Joe, and am sure that if I had started out
>discussing
> > >my plans I would have been run off also. BTW I found this list
>sometime in
> > >mid 97, but never posted until May 98 when I found out about the move
>to
> > >Hawaii, and asked about Rovers for sale here. Other then asking
>questions,
> > >I stayed pretty quiete for another year. I saw alot of how the
> > >non-traditionalist were treated and didn't want any part of it.
> > >Well that is enough for now I am sure,
> > >Pete
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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