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From: asanna <asanna@sacofoods.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:38:40 -0500
Subject: Re: rusted clutch to flywheel

>Sofar I have tried starting the car in gear and jerking the throttle 
>while driving, drive her against a tree (bended a bumper!!)

Hey!  The tree worked for me.  But you have to start it with your foot 
depressing the clutch pedal, and not too far away from the tree as to 
pick up bumper-bending momentum.  Maybe try another tree.  One with a 
little more give.

Anthony R. Sanna
SACO Foods, Inc.
6120 University Avenue
Middleton, Wisconsin  53562  USA

asanna@sacofoods.com

1-800-373-7226
(608) 238-9101

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From: Todd Schlemmer <nullman@ptinet.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 07:44:51 -0700
Subject: Re: GPS

I have heard that GPS can provide speed information.  Is this an adequate
substiture for a speedo?
It appears that my tranny is missing the speedo pinion.

Todd
'71 IIA 88 "Fantod"

At 10:23 PM 10/8/98 EDT, you wrote:

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From: "Stude, Herman L." <hermans@krts.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 09:54:28 -0500
Subject: Re: rusted clutch to flywheel

> Hey!  The tree worked for me.  But you have to start it with your foot
> depressing the clutch pedal, and not too far away from the tree as to
> pick up bumper-bending momentum. 

I used my tow strap tied to a fire hydrant and the rear crossmember pto
hole, broke the strap, tied it back together, tried a few more times. .
.finally unfroze the clutch.

Herman

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From: "Huub Pennings" <hps@fs1-kfih.azr.nl>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:57:34 +0100
Subject: Re: rusted clutch to flywheel

Hello Anthony,

> Hey!  The tree worked for me.  But you have to start it with your foot 
> depressing the clutch pedal, and not too far away from the tree as to 
> pick up bumper-bending momentum.  Maybe try another tree.  One with a 
> little more give.

No thank you, I decline, bending tree's is even more frowned upon 
then bending bumpers(in Holland that is)
Anyway , someone suggested that my hydraulics might be the problem 
since I could not depress the pedal more than half way until big 
brother took over. So I might have had a stuck, corroded piston in my 
clutch system. I will check on that one this weekend.
First clamp off a flex line and see if I get any pressure, should 
give a rock solid pedal, shoudn't it??????? 

  
Regards,

Huub Pennings

e-mail adress
Pennings@kfih.azr.nl

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From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@rmi.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 10:29:17 -0600
Subject: GPS as Speedo

Todd asked:

> I have heard that GPS can provide speed information.  Is this an adequate
> substiture for a speedo?
> It appears that my tranny is missing the speedo pinion.
> Todd
> '71 IIA 88 "Fantod"

Yep- My speedo has always read 15 mph high (great thrill when you are
really doing 55, but speedo reads 70+!!)

My GPS seems to update every second-and gives speed to the tenth of
MPH-close enough for Land Rover Work!!!

Art
1960 SII "Aardvark"

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:40:59 EDT
Subject: Re: rusted clutch to flywheel

I had the same experience with a forklift, and after some introspection, I
determined that the probable area of stuck clutch in attempted shear was the
problem.  Recognizing that rust has little strength in tension, I removed the
dust cover plate and pried the clutch plate away from the flywheel.  It moved
much easier than attempting to get it to break free in the other direction.  I
don't know how you can access the plate in your Rover, but the concept is the
correct one.

Zack Arbios

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From: "Jeffrey A. Berg" <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:18:17 -0400
Subject: re: GPS as Speedo

GPS may be acceptable as a speedo so long as you understand something about 
how it works. Because of Selective Availability--the dithering of the 
satellite signal to reduce its accuracy and make us all safer from 
terrorist attack--most GPS units are set to average the position readings 
for greater accuracy. With averaging turned off, your position from moment 
to moment, as displayed by the GPS receiver, "jumps" all over the place. 
The "speed over ground" displayed is a calculated using this average over a 
period of time and is not necessarily your true speed at any given moment 
of time. So while it's a decent indication of your highway speed as you 
cruise along on the flat, it's not necessarily what you want to count on as 
you crest a steep hill and begin descending down past that fund-raising 
speed trap.

Try this test: Drive along a country lane--or another appropriate 
venue--for a few minutes at 45-55mph. Pull over and stop. How long does it 
take your displayed speed over ground to reach 0mph? Does it ever do so? 
Sometimes even with averaging "on" the unit will show a drift of several 
MPH--even while you remain still. This is especially true with older 
4-channel serial GPS receivers.

A note to boaters, or anyone who wants to set accurate waypoints. Because 
of this averaging you can't just hit the 'set waypoint' button on the fly. 
Doing so may result in a significant error when you return to the 
waypoint--that error being DOUBLE the time over which waypoints are 
averaged, as you must remember that the unit is still averaging when you 
return. (I haven't done a clear job of explaining this, but will pull the 
necessary references and do a better report if requested to do so.) Bottom 
line:to get the most accurate waypoint possible, stop your boat (vehicle) 
as best you can, and wait for the speed over ground to read "0" before you 
record the waypoint.

By the way, I believe SA is currently scheduled to be phased out sometime 
during the year 2006. At that time GPS units, even the cheap 4-channel 
units, will become really accurate!

One more issue, older GPS units have a "millenium" (or Y2K) issue all their 
own. Except it kicks in in 1999. I believe Magellan's site has a full 
report on this issue--look into it if you depend on GPS.

Used wisely, the GPS will serve the purpose you propose, but it's like any 
other tool.

RoverOn!

jeff

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT
                    jeff@purpleshark.com
                     ==================
	My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
	My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
	Taste for the good life,
	I can see it no other way.
		--Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:34:07 -0700 
Subject: GPS Selective Availability or Accuracy...  (No LR)

I have a question regarding the logic behind Selective Availability...

In theory, the accuracy varies in order to prevent the 'enemy' from using
the GPS signals to score an accurate hit on the 'good guys'.

Well, being a fairly active sailor, I have noticed that with my 6 year old
GPS, the accuracy tends to vary by something in the order of one or two
hundreds of yards.  My question is:  is this margin of error really going to
make a difference to a thermal nuclear warhead?  Maybe for a conventional
cruise missile...

I imagine that they can turn the satellite signals off on a moments notice
if they are aware of an imminent attack...

Close only counts in horse shoes & hand grenades & thermal nuclear
devices...

Paul in Victoria.

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:35:29 EDT
Subject: Re: GPS as Speedo

In a message dated 10/9/98 1:20:34 PM SA Pacific Standard Time,
jeff@purpleshark.com writes:

<< Sometimes even with averaging "on" the unit will show a drift of several 
 MPH--even while you remain still. This is especially true with older 
 4-channel serial GPS receivers. >>

I don't know about handhelds, but the GPSs we rely on, we can turn on, off and
adjust the update frequency and averaging. We can even select RMS averaging.
Gee, these things are way too smart, and when the Energizers fail, way too
dumb.

I still use DR (dead reckoning) when driving... ok, it has been X miles, so
many minutes, fuel is at a half... how far to go... Will I make it?? It just
keeps me awake and from having to talk to the passengers (sorry, can't talk
now... computing fuel flow.)

Way too much time on my hands,

--pat.

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From: "Wilson, Scott" <wilsons@msmail.vislab.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 15:00 -0500
Subject: RE: GPS Selective Availability or Accuracy...  (No LR)

> My question is:  is this margin of error really going to
> make a difference to a thermal nuclear warhead?  Maybe for a   
conventional
> cruise missile...

Yup... it's just to mess up any guidance system that might be
dependant on GPS signals. I think I'll take the 200yd accuracy
difference over a 10-20 mile accuracy and just take the risk
of an ICBM being right on target.

> I imagine that they can turn the satellite signals off on a moments   
notice
> if they are aware of an imminent attack...

This they can and will do... Wasn't it off a while during our last little
tiff?

Oh no!!! the GPS conversation migrated over to to the leaf list!!!!

 -S

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From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 14:48:20 -0500
Subject: Re: GPS as Speedo [multipart mime alternative 6 lines deleted.] 

In message <bulk.7379.19981009093300@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:

> My GPS seems to update every second-and gives speed to the tenth of
> MPH-close enough for Land Rover Work!!!

	However, I know that with the Garmin units, the speed report is the
*average* speed over the last few seconds.  So if you are slowing down or
speeding up, the GPS will lag behind you true speed.

Ben 
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

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From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:30:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Overdrive oil

From: "Peter & Julie Rosvall" <rosvall@nbnet.nb.ca>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:02:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Overdrive oil

.>> You have to determine
>that you've got the right amount of oil, or have added the right amount
>of oil, by using the dipstick.

>When does one determine the right amount of oil; Just "dip" the
dipstick in
and then read or Place dipstick in hole then screw all the way down then
unscrew and then read?

I have always read the oil level with the dipstick screwed down into its
hole.  After all, this is how other fluid levels are checked; you push
the dipsticks in as far as they will go.  However, reading the oil level
with the dipstick unscrewed certainly won't hurt anything.  You'll just
have little extra oil inside, but not enough to cause problems like
foaming and so forth.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 16:06:19 -0500
Subject: Re: GPS as Speedo 

Jeff Berg wrote:

> Because of Selective Availability--the dithering of the 
> satellite signal to reduce its accuracy and make us all safer from 
> terrorist attack--most GPS units are set to average the position readings 
> for greater accuracy. 

	Selective Availability is not a dithering.  The defintion of dither
is 1. shiver, tremble or 2. to act nerviously or indecisively.  The error
does not jump around--it wanders.  If you have an error jump around like
noise, you just average a few points and you increase your accuracy. SA was
specifically designed to counter averaging over short periods of time (as in
less than 10 minutes).   GPS uses the orbits of the satellites and the 
timestamp of then the signal leaves the satellite to determine your position.
SA introduces a programmed lie in the timestamp and reported orbits at that
time.  The program is that of a "drunken walk".  The effect is that second to 
second the error changes very little.   The reported accuracy for a civian GPS
is that 95% of the time your reported location will be within 100 meters of 
your true location.  (Though the US Gov't can change this within 48 hours
of deciding to do so) SA induces about 30m of error in the range to a particular
satellite.

	To test this on various days I have taken a data point every 10 
seconds for 24 hours and plotted the data.   Obeserved that the reported
location was a walk and that it wandered all over.  At one point the reported
location was 258 meters away from the average from that 24 hour period. 

	Now it depends upon how you define terrorist.  The purpose of SA was
to prevent GPS receivers from being used to guide missiles onto surface 
targets.  100 meters is too far off to make a cuise missle effective, however
it is closed enough for nukes.   This is also why all civilian GPS receivers 
will not work if you are going more than 1000 knots or it used to be if they 
were above 60,000 feet.

	Averaging only works to increase your accuracy if you are standing 
still.  If you are moving this is an extremely bad idea.   I have a Garmin
12XL.  I have plotted hundreds of points off of maps and entered them into
my GPS as a waypoint and then driven by them at 70 mph.  The GPS always
reports that I'm within 100 meters of the target when I pass it (and
typically <50m).  If the GPS were averaging, this would not happen.

> The "speed over ground" displayed is a calculated using this average over a 
> period of time and is not necessarily your true speed at any given moment 
> of time. 

	No is it us your average speed over a few seconds, not your speed
over averaged locations.  I.E if your speeds were:

second 1:  55.8
second 2:  55.7
second 3:  55.6
second 4:  55.5
second 5:  55.4

	In Second 5 it would report 55.6.

> take your displayed speed over ground to reach 0mph? Does it ever do so? 
> Sometimes even with averaging "on" the unit will show a drift of several 
> MPH--even while you remain still. This is especially true with older 

   [snip]

> By the way, I believe SA is currently scheduled to be phased out sometime 
> during the year 2006. At that time GPS units, even the cheap 4-channel 

	SA is only one part of GPS error.  In finding the range to a 
given satellite the following effect the answer:

Ionosphere: About 1 to 30m of error based on time of day and lattitue.  The
	Ionosphere is highly variable.  GPS satellites broadcast a model to
	try to compentate for this, but it is only 50% to 75% effective.
        US military models use a seconds frequency to get rid of this effect.
Atmospheric:  This is based on the density of the atmosphere at your position.
        It can induce an error of up to 2.3 meters (if the satellite is 
        directly overhead).  However, if one uses altitude to caluclate this,
	the error can be mosly removed (though high and low pressure will
        bring some of it back)
Orbit and Satellite Clock Error:  The orbital characteristics (before SA is
        induced) is really a prediction that is uploaded to the satellite
        dayly by the US Air Force.  It is their best guess asto where each
        satellite will be that day.  Also the satellites atomic clocks are
	resynced each day.   This facter is the largest part of error on
	military GPS receivers.  It induces a few meter error.
Multipath:  Signals can bounce off of metal surfaces, etc.  Some antennas  
        can filter most of this out.  This is a variable error since it 
	depends on the path that the signal took.
Receiver Noise: Thermal noise from your GPS unit will add error to range of
        at least 1 meter.

The geometry of the Satellites currently being used for your position fix can
also be a factor.

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

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From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:17:53 -0700
Subject: re: GPS as Speedo

Jeff, RE: GPS as Speedo,  I guess I could use my ass as a pencil holder but
I don't know why I'd ever want or need to.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:43:00 -0500
Subject: RE: GPS as Speedo

>Jeff, RE: GPS as Speedo,  I guess I could use my ass as a pencil holder but
>I don't know why I'd ever want or need to.

That one was really good.
;-}

Want to know where you are, get a GPS.
Want to know how slow you are going, look at your speedo.

But the bottom line about speed and rovers is: Who cares! You're definitely
not going to get a speeding ticket.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: John Putnam <jdputnam@oriongps.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:51:33 -0700
Subject: RE: GPS Selective Availability or Accuracy...  (No LR)

This they can and will do... Wasn't it off a while during our last little
tiff?
Actually, they turned off the SA during the Gulf war.  Some of some great phase 
GPS accuracy.

John Putnam
Orion GPS, Inc.
Forest Grove, Oregon
'70 SWB SIIa "Rhino" just in from a day of GPS mapping in the rain & mud.

Oh no!!! the GPS conversation migrated over to to the leaf list!!!!

 -S

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From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:44:24 +1000
Subject: : yadda yadda yadda...

Ron wrote:

>Hamish drives a Police SIII diesel SWB SW), the Fast Show (a UK comedy show
>with the world's two worst 4WD drivers - in  Defender).

Mike Rooth replied:
>So what 'ave you bin eatin' this week,Ron? Or were you vewy,vewy dwunk?

Umm, Last Friday, dinner aboard the ship.  Monday - public holiday.
Tuesday - Lunch and dinner aboard the ship. Wednesday -lunch aboard the
ship.  Thursday lunch at a local resturant.  Today - hamburgers.  Everyday -
red wine.

Do you mean you haven't watched the Fast Show.  These guys get bogged every
week.  It is a great 1/2 hour of British comedy.  Hamish Macbeth reminds me
of Norfolk Island - where everyone knows your business but its a place you
love.

Ron

Wednesday - lunch aboard the ship.

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:43:21 -0500
Subject: OFF (road) for the weekend.

Long off-road weekend ahead. 
I'll try not to spill all my oil on mother nature this time.
See (read) you all on tuesday! Have a virtual-beer on my account.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:47:32 EDT
Subject: Re: GPS as Speedo as noted by Ben

Well said, and concise. You just forgot to add a: "Here endeth the lesson." at
the end.

Thanks for the insight. 

BTW, didn't it get a bit boring looking at your GPS screen every 10 seconds
for 24 hours ??  :-)

--pat.

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:50:36 EDT
Subject: Re: GPS as Speedo

In a message dated 10/9/98 5:21:55 PM SA Pacific Standard Time,
rwwilson@mho.net writes:

 Jeff, RE: GPS as Speedo,  I guess I could use my ass as a pencil holder but
 I don't know why I'd ever want or need to. >>

...just for the feel of it, 
...just for the taste of it... 
(Diet Coke) 

I had to tell you all that the Diet Coke commercial was playing on TV when I
opened this e-mail. The timing couldn't have been worse.

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From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 21:57:02
Subject: John "Cheese"

>LR content: Both John Cleese and Land Rover are the best thing Britain
>has given us Yanks in a long time (IMHO). Not to forget Michael Palin,
>Graham Chapman, Eric Idle, Terry Gilliam!!!

I dunno, I was thinking about Jack Frost, Morse, the crew of "allo,"allo,
The Thin Blue Line, Yes Priminister(sp), The Fall and Rise of Reg. Perrin,
Rising Damp, Oh I could go on but, maybe not.

Jim Wolf

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 21:25:01 -0700
Subject: Toro

AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGG!!!!

Sorry, but I had to let it out. Installing a Toro in an 88 is the
biggest pain in the ass since using it for a pencil holder. Whoever said
it installs in two hours was smoking crack. Whoever put the locktite on
the nuts instead of the studs should be shot. Six hours later and it
still isn't all the way installed, although it's close at least. The
instructions, or lack there of, sucked also. I need a beer!!!!

Jim Hall
Elephant Chaser 1966 88"

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From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:58:59 +1000
Subject: head milling and compression ratios

Dr Russ wrote:
>Personally, though, I'd leave it as is and wait until you warp
>the head and really need to mill it...
>ps Steve Dennis once posted to this list exhaustive instructions for
>doing this...

Exhaustive instructions on how to warp a head???

Regards..

Ron

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From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:10:10 +1000
Subject: LR in movies

I walked into the family room last night as my daughter sat down to watch
Close Encounters of the Third Kind.  The first vehicle to appear out on
screen was a Series IIA or III SWB

Ron

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From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:08:05 +1000
Subject: Diesel Rangie?

Peter M. Kaskan asks:

>What diesel engine could easily replace the V8 gas ones?

I've seen a conversion of a Rangie from a VM 2.5L turbo diesel (the standard
diesel for some years) to a 300Tdi in Oz.  It was a big job because many of
the ancilliaries had to be swapped from one side of the car to the other ie.
air cleaners, radiator over flow tanks etc.

In the USA, the GM 6.5 (?) litre diesel is probably the cheapest engine to
source.  You could buy a fitting kit from the UK. - check LROI for prices.

By the way, the VM 2.5L diesel is the engine sold in the Jeep Cherokee in
Australia and Europe.

Ron

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:47:19 EDT
Subject: Re: LR in movies

In a message dated 10/9/98 9:44:58 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
hillman@bigpond.com writes:

<< I walked into the family room last night as my daughter sat down to watch
 Close Encounters of the Third Kind.  The first vehicle to appear out on
 screen was a Series IIA or III SWB >>

Yep.  There was a movie on the WB network tonight.  There was a IIA 109 in it.
it was shown in several shots.  Had a tropical top too. 

Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

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From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@rmi.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 22:48:09 -0600
Subject: RE John "Cheese"

Jim Wolf wrote:

I dunno, I was thinking about Jack Frost, Morse, the crew of
"allo,"allo,
The Thin Blue Line, Yes Priminister(sp), The Fall and Rise of Reg.
Perrin,
Rising Damp, Oh I could go on but, maybe not.

Fully agree!! Could be why I watch PBS and A&E more than any other
channel!

Also a greater chance for LR sightings!!

Art
1960 SII"Aardvark"

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:55:27 -1000
Subject: Re: Toro

>Sorry, but I had to let it out. Installing a Toro in an 88 is the
>biggest pain in the ass since using it for a pencil holder.

I am familiar with the lawnmower but have a feeling this is not the "Toro"
you speak of.
Just wondering
Pete

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