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From: "Dr. Gary.A.Bauer" <bauerg@iafrica.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:04:07 +0200
Subject: Thanks for help on Lengthened shackles

To all who replied

Many thanks for the advice and input re the raised suspension.   Sorry
about the rude awakening to Monday morn this week.   Just a little more
info: Have tried three sets of tyres and rims, have disconnected the front
propshaft, runs it in and out of lock on the free wheel hubs (front), and
have also run it jacked up - noise is still the same.

I now have some good pointers to work on and will update with report.   I
am considering replacing the rover axles with ENV's (for side shaft
problems mostly), and hopefully the shorter nosecone of the ENV and
therefor longer propshaft with less angle may help somewhat.  Will however
try the other suggestion first.

Many thanks
Gary Bauer

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From: Lorri Paustian <lorri@sound.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 04:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Series 1 club

Is Vince VonFrese one of the ten members?  If not, I'll take the info with
me to our meeting this Saturday as am sure he'll be interested in joining.
He doesn't have an email address to forward this to.  Thanks.

At 09:35 PM 9/14/98 EDT, you wrote:

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From: Peter Goundry <peterg@aircast.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:33:38 -0400
Subject: Welding and Buying UK stuff

<<LUIS MANUEL wrote: I guess you would have to re-do all the 
transmission systems with better
quality materials for it to be trouble free. We'll have to live with 
Solihull quality control.>>

What has Solihull quality control got to do with your problems? After 
reading your postings it seems to me that you have purchased a hybrid 
which has essentially been f*****d up! The original Land Rover design 
never catered for the modifications done to your truck therefore they 
are in no way responsible!!!!

Peter Goundry
67 GS109" IIA, 73 Lightweight, D90 #127

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:32:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Welding and Buying UK stuff

Re: Peter's rant:

Peter, I do believe that Luis is more than aware of the situation - I took that
statement to be a bit more lighthearted than anything else...

You really do need to take it a bit easier, old chap.

               ajr

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:04:39 EDT
Subject: Re:Zenith Carb

In a message dated 9/15/98 3:50:21 AM, you wrote:

<<They recommend against grinding the faces, but on searching the list
archive I found that the majority of people endorsed it. So that's what I
did and it worked a treat.

PS:- Sorry that the list's response was a bit naff, but this subject has
recurred so often that it's a bit 'done to death'. Hope you are successful!!>>

RoversNorth's Charlie Heigh (sp?) Has a neat "oven-trick" to do to the carb
body (without fuel in it) and I'm not sure if it even has to be sanded down
afterwards.

I believe it was to bake the carb at 450F for an hour and cool it down in 50F
steps until the oven is off, then let it sit overnight or something to that
effect.

The Aunt Jemimas among us can call him for details and further recipe tips
(802) 879-0032

--pat.

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From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 8:55:53 -0400
Subject: Parabolic spring updates?????...Now TeriAnn....!

OK, so by the time you get them installed you've probably spent close to 
a grand. Look at it this way, as Cosmo said in Moonstruck...it costs 
money because it SAVES money. You'll never have to worry about sagging, 
dragging, wear, tear, lubrication, rust, and alignment again. You install 
the springs and your suspension troubles are done. The only thing you'll 
need is to replace the spring bushings in about ten years. Maybe. In 
addition, the load carrying capacity is about double the OEM springs 
(judging by the way your truck was sitting in the parking lot at GP, I'd 
say you need much more), the articulation is better, the ride is smoother 
and more comfortable,and the whole karma thing is in greater universal 
harmony.
With OEM springs, you run the risk of the truck listing to one side in as 
little as three months, and the life expectancy is far shorter. They are 
noisy, harsh and prone to failure. The price difference is NOT MUCH when 
the benefits are taken into consideration. Don't be put off, FORGE AHEAD 
!!!

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 
boundary="------------527FFB7E8637432305A7B42C" ]
From: Keith Mohlenhoff <krm@nj.paradyne.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:05:48 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: Parabolic springs]

The price of the kit I bought, from Great Basin Rovers included poly
bushings and OME shocks. I am happy with the on-road ride but do not
have any further off-road data as I was away quite alot over this
summer.

here is my original post from early August

Keith R. MOhlenhoff
[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: message/rfc822 ]

	[Attachment  removed, was 47 lines.]	

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From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:39:57 +1000
Subject: Brake bleed nipples

"Bryn Hackland" wrote:
> Anyone got a method for removing corroded in and rounded bleed
>nipples that  just refuse to budge.

Paul Wakefield replied:
>I bet they'd move during being drilled out with an anticlockwise drill bit.

Some years ago I was at a mate's place and he complained about the new drill
bits he had bought - they were bloody hopeless at drilling.  He asked I
would sharpen them.

I had a look at them and they were sharp.  It took a few seconds to realise
the flutes wound the wrong way.  I've never seen a set of left had drill
bits before or since.

These had been made in China.

Ron

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:29:28 EDT
Subject: Re:  Brake bleed nipples

In a message dated 9/15/98 9:23:05 AM, Ron wrote:

<<Some years ago I was at a mate's place and he complained about the new drill
bits he had bought - they were bloody hopeless at drilling.  He asked I
would sharpen them.

I had a look at them and they were sharp.  It took a few seconds to realise
the flutes wound the wrong way.  I've never seen a set of left had drill
bits before or since.

These had been made in China.>>

We have them up here, *North of the Equator*... must be another hemispherical
difference ;-)

Do your drill bits twist the same way water goes down the drain?

Another foreign tool tip: If you have a bolt head that you can't find an
appropriate wrench or socket for, look in a discount hardware for some cheap
Made in India tools. I've found that their tolerances often give me 1/2 sizes,
and sizes to fit odd bolts. hmmm.

--pat.

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:38:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Sprayable Ceramic and Graphite

Hi There - I was asked to give you more info on the above - (I finally
remembered to bring it in!!) So, without further ado...

(In the context of the exaust manifold treatments discussion, I mentioned...)

Brushable or sprayable ceramic coatings. Devcon brushable is an alumina
filled epoxy, sprayable is a ceramic reinforced composite, both only last
to 350F, (how hot does an exaust manifold get?)

For lube-ing your springs - (Gerry et al.) - I used something called "204 -
Dry Graphite Lube" made by Sprayon Products. I bought it at an industrial
supply company.  It's from a division of Sherwin - William paints, Bedford
Heights OH 44146.  It's coefficient of friction is 0.123, it says.
Reguardless, I suppose any dry graphite spray will work - this is the
industrial strength stuff.  Its  just the first stuff I came across - it
was a couple bucks a can, and I only needed about 1.25 cans for my 88
springs. MUCH improved things!!

Bye for now & Cheers - Peter (usual disclaimers apply)

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:41:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Sprayable Ceramic and Graphite

Peter,

How did you get the springs to separate to get the graphite in bewtween the
leaves? THis sounds like a good idea.....especially with the contoured rocks I
have under Mr. C.

                    ajr

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From: Tim Harincar <harincar@Camworks.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:50:33 -0500
Subject: Re:Zenith Carb

Someone mentioned the carb halves warping problems already. I endorse that -
I had to do it on a two year old carb. Also, with regard to the float, you
are very correct in that it could be out of adjustment. When I first picked
up my Rover the float was so far out the carb would drip gas into the throat
when it wasn't running. This caused no end to rich mixture problems. There
is a proper measurement, and it's listed in the Haynes manual which I do not
have with me now - maybe someone can look it up.

Lastly, the new version of this carb is used on a number of different
vehicles. There is an additional port that British Pacific recommends
blocking as it was not there on the original Rover carbs and can also lead
to rich running. Ask them to fax you the diagram. I've done all of these,
and the carb performs well. It tunes just like the book says it will. 

FWIW, the only complaint about this carb (and I suppose it may not even be
the carb) is it's tendency to vapor lock in hot weather.

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@camworks.com
Camworks, St. Paul, MN
http://www.camworks.com
Internet Solutions that Power Business 

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:52:00 EDT
Subject: Re: Sprayable Graphite

I sprayed my springs with the graphite about 3 months ago, and found that it
took a few days to notice a difference (perhaps it needed to work in?).  The
harsh bumps are still harsh, but I can now actually feel my suspension working
both off road and going down the hi-way.  

Never ridden in a coiler, so I cannot comment, but the road ride is very
civilized.  Three months and the still the ride is nice.

Enzo (I love anything in a spray can.)

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From: "Neil Brownlee" <metal_thraser@email.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:57:05 +0100
Subject: Lower Wing......well, lower than the other one anyway!

Hi,

I've been looking at me Series III since Sunday, and since I bogged it, it
seems to have one wing higher than the other...trouble is I can't remember
now if it was LIKE that before....theres no stress on any bolts etc, but
there's about 1.5 cm between the win and the bonnet on one side...this does
of course make the headlights look very ODD indeed. Oh, and the grill is
cracked on that side......When we pushed the wing in from the side she did
crack BTW. (IT WAS OUT A LOT!)

If it has moved, what culprit could it be? She went down wing first into a
hole (I thought that would push it up!). Any hints would be appreciated,
only passing the MOT may be a bit hard with one wing being so....out of
place....

Neil

SIII '78 2.25 Petrol LWB Canvas - BNH 449S Salisbury Diff. Zenith Carb -
'The Rancor'

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:59:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (more on my) Graphite (treatment)

Alan - I just jacked each corner up in turn.  If I were to do it again
(I'll go over them with another coat in a few months) I'd go to a local
power wash, splay the leaves there and blast the $h!t out from between them
- when they are completely (!) dry, cover them with the graphite spray.
Voilla - no more "contoured rocks!"

(Maybe someday I'll invest in parabolics, but I've got other projects first)

Have fun! - Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:12:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: (more on my) Graphite (treatment)

>Alan - I just jacked each corner up in turn.

Oops! - Do it from the bumpers, so the axel etc. mass pulls the leaves
apart - It won't work if you try from underneath the axel or springs.

 >If I were to do it again (I'll go over them with another coat in a few
months) I'd go to a >local power wash, splay the leaves there and blast the
$h!t out from between them

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From: Markus Korth <mkorth@systline.de>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:17:34 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Inspection light sockets

Hello !

After some time of just reading, I dare to post to this list. For
those who haven't seen my name yet (it appeared often enough when this 
list went crazy some weeks ago - sorry for that), let me introduce
myself:

My name is Markus and I'm a proud owner of a '74 Lighweight. Before I
brought this car I had no craftsmanship or mechanic knowledge (in
fact, I always needed more than two hours to put a shelf onto the
wall, and - the shelf was crooked). Now, after 2 1/2 years of oily
hands, bloody knuckles and a constant "2 weeks driving, one week
repairing"-rythm I'm able to do many repairs by myself (and I only
need one hour now for putting a shelf onto the wall - but it is still
crooked). Since I will have a little bit more time the next weeks I
plan to do some deeper inspections and minor repairs that have waited
to long. 
Today, I will start with an easy question that nerves me from that
moment I got my LW:

What's the intended use of these inspection (light?) sockets on the
panel ? And how are they used ?

Ciao
 Markus

-- 
Markus Korth              |      SYSTline 
mkorth@systline.de        |      Heiden Lemmermann 
Essen/Germany             |      Systemhaus GmbH
Key fingerprint = FA 10 36 1E A1 F7 F3 02  0D A9 14 60 A8 51 E4 D3

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:17:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Lower Wing......well, lower than the other one anyway!

In a message dated 98-09-15 09:59:33 EDT, you write:

<< If it has moved, what culprit could it be?  >>

I climbed on my wing when I pulled my head last year and it drooped.  Possible
someone sat on the wing during your off-road?  Loosen the bolts which fix the
wing to the frame upright, make your adjustments, then re-tighten.  On my car,
it was easy to check alignment using the front bumper as a guide.

Enzo

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:31:27 -0400
Subject: Zeniths, again

Piet Fourie : pah@saao.ac.za" <pah@saao.ac.za> wrote:

>My wife's landy (2.25) has a Zenith carb-36IV. (hate it).  I am unable to
>adjust the air/fuel mixture (it stays very rich).
>I suspect the float level is wrong. Can anybody please tell me the
>correct level for the float.

I suspect that it is the common Zenith warp problem.  Check the archives
for the glass-plate grinding trick.  That said, I've also had another
problem with latter-day Zeniths.  The brass of the float arm is softer than
the brass of the pivot rod.  Thus, eliptical holes get worn in the float
arm, leading to some truly bizarre performance problems (like choking off
in left turns, but not in right).  I used an old float in a new carb.  The
only way to change the mixture ina Zenith is to replace the jets.  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:31:25 -0400
Subject: Dormobile numbers

>TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

>It is our hope that Dormobile owners in the Eastern half of the continent 
>will also get together to have an annual Eastern North American 
>International Dormobile meet.

Just how many Dormobiles are there in the US of A?  Twenty or so?  I think
that Martin-Waller only made 600 or so of the vehicles total.  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: JDolan2109@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:21:16 EDT
Subject: Rovers for sale in Vermont

Available:
   1971 88" SIIa. Runs, drives, frame good. Current asking price of $1350 USD.
This vehicle runs very well, but does have a few bugs, one of which is a stuck
clutch (floor is currently out, but included). It does need a new outrigger
under driver side (LHD) floor and some bulkhead repair in the area behind the
pedals only. The front "breakfast" or radiator panel does need replacement and
a good one is included. There is noise emanating from the timing case,
something in there needs to be tended to. Many spare parts are to be included
(seatbox, trans, shortblock...).  Also available is a pair of 1964 Rover P5 3
litre saloons, both automatics, one of which was the 1964 Rover car at the New
York car show (actually has AC). Current asking price for that pair is $1000
USD. One is an almost completed restoration, running and driving but with a
brake problem. The other is for parts or whatever. Additionally there is a
1984 Range Rover (w/carbies & auto) that is on the block. The vehicles are
located in Bethel, Vermont, about 60 miles from Stowe, and arrangements can be
made to inspect them. All vehicles sold "as is, where is." Please call or
email direct, or I'll be at Stowe.
see 'ya on the old road...
jim  '61 SIIa 88" w/OD, 16's, Hubs (econobox?)  "Seleg"
       '60 P5 MkI 4spd w/OD   "Olive(r)"
Rochester, Vt.  1-802-767-1163 (keep trying, late night best)
LR...quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised!

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From: Tim Harincar <harincar@Camworks.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:52:48 -0500
Subject: Birmabright Brotherhood?

Is the BB list still being maintained? I realized through a job change, etc.
that I've probably been dropped off the list and have not been getting
regular updates. If I could get the info to get back on, I'd appreciate it.

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@camworks.com
Camworks, St. Paul, MN
http://www.camworks.com
Internet Solutions that Power Business 

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From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:11:29 +0000
Subject: Re: Inspection light sockets

>What's the intended use of these inspection (light?) sockets on the
>panel ? And how are they used ?
Dead right.They are inspection light sockets.Originally you could
run a lambing lamp off them(The vehicle being intended for agriculture),
but they just stayed there.I grant you,yours being ex-mil,and soldiers
not traditionally having much interest in lambing,their presence may
seem a little odd,but you can still run an inspection lamp from them.
The problem is getting a two pin plug to fit.Some years ago I managed
to find one,but looking more recently,I find that they are no longer
produced.However I do,in fact, use mine with a 21 watt inspection light,
and find it extremely useful.Now if I could just find that original
Lucas brass inspection light that I *know* my father has somewhere......
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:30:20 +0200
Subject: Re: Inspection light sockets

The "lambing-light" socket can easily be replaced with standard Banana
plug sockets, as know on most laboratory or electronic test equipment -
I have converyed mine, so that i can power 12 volt tools like soldering
irons, small lights etc. The result is almost the same as the original,
but these plugs can be bought easily from any electrinocs supplier like
RS/Radiospares and Farnell - and most electronic hobby shops too.

Remember to feed them from a fused supply, it's not always the case with
rovers!

Does anyone know the reason why so much of the standard LR electrical
installation is unfused - seems like a recipe for disaster to me?

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:32:25 EDT
Subject: Re: Birmabright Brotherhood?

In a message dated 9/15/98 7:55:03 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
harincar@Camworks.com writes:

<< Is the BB list still being maintained? I realized through a job change,
etc.
 that I've probably been dropped off the list and have not been getting
 regular updates. If I could get the info to get back on, I'd appreciate it.
<< Is the BB list still being maintained? I realized through a job change,

Brian.Foster@tais.com (Foster, Brian) is still maintaining it.  Send him a
note to get the latest info.  He had problems and is setting it up again so
your note is timely.

Gerry Elam
PHX  AZ  USA
'73 Series III Soft top "Tigger"  (daily driver until it hits 110 F / 43 C)
'64 Series IIA Dormobile "Humpty Dumpty"  (interior currently in pieces)
'95 Disco "Great White"

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From: "Wilson, Scott" <wilsons@msmail.vislab.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:20 -0500
Subject: RE: Inspection light sockets

> Originally you could
> run a lambing lamp off them

This sounds particularly scarier than it should. What is this?

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:41:15 EDT
Subject: Re:  RE: Inspection light sockets

In a message dated 9/15/98 11:37:50 AM, you wrote:

<<> Originally you could
> run a lambing lamp off them

This sounds particularly scarier than it should. What is this?>>

Isn't that what lonely shepherds used to "warm" up the sheep on cold nights?

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From: "M. Tompkins" <mmglass@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:51:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Inspection light sockets

I found that stereo cables with RCA plugs (male end of course)
fit fine. Just bend and break off the outside tabs off the RCA plug.

I bought one of those cigarette lighter sockets that can be clamped
to the battery. I cut the ends off that and the RCA stereo cable and
soldered the center wire of the stereo cable to the lighter socket
wires. When needed, I plug the RCA plugs into the inspection
sockets and then have power to the lighter socket. I bought the
lighter socket at a Trak Auto for about $7(USD) I believe. The socket
I have even has a small green diode that illuminates when it is powered.
Currently, I use it to power a portable cd player.  Some might have
seen this at GP.

I can take a picture and e-mail it or put it on a webpage if someone
wants that.

Cheers,
Mike Tompkins
pictures of LRs -->http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/8365/index.html

Mike Rooth wrote:

> >What's the intended use of these inspection (light?) sockets on the
> >panel ? And how are they used ?

<snipped>

> The problem is getting a two pin plug to fit.Some years ago I managed
> to find one,but looking more recently,I find that they are no longer
> produced.

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:47:14 EDT
Subject: Repowering the Dormobile?

The question was "do I stay with the devil I (we?) know, the 2.25, or the
devil I (we?) don't know"?

Background:  Me:  few mechanical skills prior to purchasing Land Rovers.
Always did the simple things to cars, motorcycles, etc.  Born without a silver
spoon in my mouth or a wrench in my hand.  Luckily blessed with some amount of
common sense and access to the Internet.

Vehicle:  a 1964 IIA Dormobile.  Mechanically in fair shape.  The interior is
in pieces.  Don't know if I'll be able to put it back together again...hence
the name "HD" which stands for anything you want.  Currently:  Humpty Dumpty.

I want a little more power than the 2.25 has in stock form.  I don't have the
skills to put in another engine.  I barely have enough skills to change oil
seals but that's another thread.  Willing to try though.

Just ordered the ACR Stage II head and Power Plus kit.  (See LROI Sept. 97,
Oct. 97 and a IIA reviewed in the Nov. 97)   If I need more engine work done,
I will use BP or a local rebuilder.  This kit should hopefully bring enough
power to run at 60 with power in reserve.... relatively speaking of course.

Should be interesting!  The highs in Phoenix are supposed to be under 100 by
this weekend so it's time to get to work.....  bulkhead first, balance of
structure, and then mechanics, interior and cosmetics.  Probably won't be
ready for Portland ABFM 1999 but we'll see. 

Later....
Gerry Elam
PHX  AZ  USA
'73 Series III Soft top "Tigger"  (daily driver until it hits 110 F / 43 C)
'64 Series IIA Dormobile "Humpty Dumpty"  (interior currently in pieces)
'95 Disco "Great White"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:51:28 +0000
Subject: Re:  RE: Inspection light sockets

>Isn't that what lonely shepherds used to "warm" up the sheep on cold nights?
I suspect you're talking about a pig lamp.Lambing lamps are just what
you use to actually *see* the confounded animal when it decides to
give birth at three in the morning in a bloody cold field.I suspect not
much used these days,farmers tend to bring ewes in where they can see
them now.Just a big lantern really.
Mike Rooth

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 08:56:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Parabolic spring updates???...Now TeriAnn...!

<SNIP>
> it costs 
>money because it SAVES money. You'll never have to worry about sagging, 
>dragging, wear, tear, lubrication, rust, and alignment again. You install 
;>the springs and your suspension troubles are done. The only thing 
you'll 
;>need is to replace the spring bushings in about ten years.

Do you personally know anyone who has had them on their car for 10 years 
who can verify this??  Do you know anyone who has had them on their car 
for a year??

;>(judging by the way your truck was sitting in the parking lot at GP, 
I'd 
;>say you need much more),

Would you believe the springs under The Green Rover are 1 ton springs 
that have been on the car almost a year and a half??  The car was listing 
badly to the right within a couple of weeks of installing them.  The only 
reason I didn't send them back is that I had them sitting outside for 
about a half year before I had the opportunity to install them. During my 
10 week run through Western Canada & US a year ago the springs settled 
into a permanent 5 or 6 degree list and the car leans more to the right  
at the slightest excuse.  I take this into account when choosing a track 
through an obstacle or how fast I take a left hand curve on a highway.

I have a front fuel tank on the left to balance the one on the right.  I 
sit on the left and I have a 15 gallon water tank on the left side as 
well. The interior weight is about evenly distributed side to side.  If 
you thought the list looked interesting parked at Greek Peak when I was 
not sitting in the driver's seat you should see it when the left front 
fuel and the water tanks are empty 8*(  I try to off road with a full 
water tank, left fuel tank and empty right front fuel tank.  I run off 
the rear tank so as not to siphon any weight from the left side.  It 
helps a little but not much.

You saw first hand why I'm asking about springs. As you accurately 
pointed out, I DO INDEED NEED A NEW FULL SET OF SPRINGS. I suspect the 
Parabolics just might be a good thing but I do not want to jump into a 
set just on some vague hearsay without reports of real life experiences. 
I am trying to learn about the parabolics by getting some real life 
feedback by people who have them mounted and are driving off road with 
them.  That is why I started this thread. A lot of people were talking 
about buying them but no one is talking about using them.  That makes me 
somewhat suspicious of the advertising claims.  I have also heard rumors 
of several people purchasing  sets of Parabolics and being unable to 
install them on their cars.  The rumors suggest that the return rate is 
high.  I would like to hear from people who returned springs to find out 
why.

I guess I'm just one of those people who can not choose what to purchase 
without data.  That's why it took me over two years to figure out how I 
wanted to set up the interior of my car for long range expedition.  That 
is why I have been pondering over what engine and transmission I want to 
place in my heavy mobile home.

The last I heard from you about off road driving with parabolics was your 
first try at Greek Peak and you indicated that your springs were bucking 
and you could not get up a hill that you thought you could with your old 
springs.  I believe that you said that you thought the old shocks were 
keeping the springs from functioning properly.  I haven't noticed any 
update from you on how it works with correct shocks.

<SNIP>
:>With OEM springs, you run the risk of the truck listing to 
;> one side in as little as three months,

Here is some new Data, I do not know if my springs are OEM but they were 
supposed to be high quality made in the UK springs.  I was listing badly 
within 3 weeks.

<SNIP>
;> Don't be put off, FORGE AHEAD !!!

I would like to fix the problem quickly because the weak springs are 
making my car more dangerous to drive but I would like a few things first:

1. Real life data on alternatives to OEM 1 ton springs

2, a job so I can have a disposable income to spend on springs

Please  ANYONE with real life experiences with Parabolics, please reply

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:05:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Inspection light sockets

Wilson, Scott wrote:
> > Originally you could
> > run a lambing lamp off them
> This sounds particularly scarier than it should. What is this?

 Sheep have an annoying habit of giving birth in the wee hours of the
morning and so if you are a shepherd you will need some illumination
when assisting the ewe hence the the lambing lamp.
    John and Muddy

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 09:18:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Dormobile numbers

>>TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
>>It is our hope that Dormobile owners in the Eastern half of the continent 
;>>will also get together to have an annual Eastern North American 
;>>International Dormobile meet.

;>Just how many Dormobiles are there in the US of A?  Twenty or so?  I 
think
;>that Martin-Waller only made 600 or so of the vehicles total.  Cheers

I am currently aware of 17 in the Western US.  In addition there are two 
sand coloured ones I have lost track of that may still be around and if 
Walter EVER gets around to bringing his Dormobile home from the UK that 
will be one more.  John Hess probably knows of some I don't know about 
and Nick Baggerly just seems to have a physic ability to locate every 
Dormobile that has been neglected and needs loving care.  I have also 
heard vague stories of one or two Dormobiles hanging out in Western 
Canada.

I think if we really get somthing going we can get some owners to come 
out of the background noise.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:40:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Inspection light sockets

In a message dated 98-09-15 12:06:05 EDT, you write:

<<  Sheep have an annoying habit of giving birth in the wee hours of the
 morning and so if you are a shepherd you will need some illumination
 when assisting the ewe hence the the lambing lamp. >>

All fine, but lambing lamps tend to go on the lamb when you need to lamb a
lamb.  Does anyone have a lamb lamp on hand?

E.
ps- please dont slam my lamb sham by sending me spam (sing shama-lama-lama)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:31:40
Subject: Re: Don't ruin your rover with J**p tricks.

	The larger the tire, the greater the speed for the same rpm.  Mercedes
with their awesome German Engineering used different sized wheels/tires
on the driven wheels of their Formula cars of 1935-1939 vintage rather
than change the differential gearing.  Larger tires/wheels to get more
kph per rpm and higher speeds on the high speed tracks and smaller
tires/wheels for the greater rpm per kph and more acceleration on low
speed tracks.  The problem may be in the definition of terms.  The higher
the differential gearing like a 4.70. the lower the overall gearing or
more rpm per mph.

	As far as parabolics messing up the drive line, it hasn't been a problem
with mine.  The parabolics have fewer leaves and, thus, shorter spring
stack height.  They effectively lift the vehicle by the difference in the
stack height of the parabolic and stock springs.  This allows the stock
shocks to function with them as the shocks are seeing the same distance
as a stock Sprung truck even though the truck is riding higher.  The
problem is that the stock shocks suck after 100,000 or so miles and don't
work very well and don't allow the parabolics to reach their full
articulation potential.  OME and other shocks have more travel than the
stock woodheads and should be fitted to take advantage of the full
articulation potential of the parabolics.  The stock axle straps see the
increased ground clearance, however, and limit the travel of the axles.
A set of lifted length (longer) check straps should give you additional
articulation.  My straps were in bad shape and broke soon after I
installed the parabolics.  Its been doing fine without the check straps
but I haven't been doing any <underline>extreme</underline> off road
stuff.  It has been off road and in 4wd everyday, as it has been the
entire 14 years that I've owned it, however.  One thing I noticed when
making the change that the rear u-joint at the transmission at full
extension of the axle with no straps, had almost no clearance between the
u-joint yoke and the flange.  Boisterous use of the truck with a lift or
parabolics and no check straps will result in metal to metal contact of
the u-joints.

	As far as the nose of the differential, that's the part with the drive
flange.  Shackles will drop the nose of the front diff. and raise the
nose of the rear diff..  That will increase the drive shaft angle in the
front and decrease it in the rear.  I may be mistaken, but I thought
there was some mention of the Australian rovers having wedges installed
on the front differential to reduce the angle caused by the spring lifts
on the front axle.  A commensurate lengthening of the front spring mounts
would bring the nose of the differential back to level but not the more
favorable nose up attitude as found at the rear.

	If you look at http://members.xoom.com/remlr/swb/ you will see that both
109's and 88's in the Oz military have been lifted.  The lift looks to be
about the optimum for ground clearance/rollover resistance.  As far as
the front drive shafts.  The distances are the same for both the 88 and
the 109.  It is only the rear drive shafts that are different lengths. 

	For more ground clearance, the 9.5/33/15's are approximately 0.7" taller
than the 235/85/16's or the 7.50/16's.  It will gear the truck higher
gearing but not significantly more than the 235/85/16's.  I'm constantly
climbing some damn steep obstructions and haven't run out of oomph with
the stock gears/2.2l petrol and 235/85/16's.  I've been traction limited
but never torque limited.  That's not the case on the road in 2wd high
range where I have to use 3rd gear to get up some of the paved roads
around here and first gear on my driveway. 

	As far as old springs sagging.  You can count on it.  A new set of
springs or re-arched old springs would probably restore the ground
clearance intended for the old ladies.  One figure I'd like to know is
the designed axle to frame distances for both the front and rear axles.
That dimension is the only way to check the actual sag over the years.
ANYBODY OUT THERE HAVE THE DESIGNED AXLE TO FRAME DISTANCE?

	As far as making up lengthened spring shackles on your own.  Be advised
that the shackles are threaded on the nut side and appear to be of a
hardened steel beyond straight mild steel.  Don't know if they're
engineered specifically for the purpose.  The ones off my junker had all
the holes elongated, however, and they didn't have all that many miles on
them.

	Last week I asked about the preferred way to install the shackles but
received no response.  I'll try again.  Do you snug the shackle bolts up
tight so the shackles twist the rubber in the bushings as the shackles
move or do you leave them a little loose so the shackles pivot on the
bolts.  I expect it makes a difference as my junkers shackles indicate.

	You are going over some pretty gnarly stuff if you are getting high
centered in an 88 with 235/85/16's.  I had constant problems with the H
series M&S 15" that came on the car when I bought it.  My cross members
look like a torture test for metal fatigue.  Countless times I bulldozed
lava with the cross member.  Switching to 7.50/16's pretty much ended
that problem.  I haven't measured the ground clearance but it looks
pretty comparable to a lifted jeep or one with humongous tires.  One
thing I do know is that it ain't too awfully hard to get the greasy side
exposed to sunlight on a cross slope with the 16 wheels, BTDT.  A 2" lift
from stock would be as much as I would trust unless I was only doing
straight up and down challenges.  The old girl doesn't give much warning
when it exceeds its side stability.

Aloha Peter

1970 88

1965 88

1965 109

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Markus Korth <mkorth@systline.de>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:50:28 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: Re: Inspection light sockets

Hi !

> >What's the intended use of these inspection (light?) sockets on the
> >panel ? And how are they used ?
> Dead right.They are inspection light sockets.Originally you could
> run a lambing lamp off them(The vehicle being intended for agriculture),

Thanks to everybody for clearing this question ! I have to admit that I
have been completely wrong concerning my guesses about the use of this
sockets: I thought that "inspection light sockets" are sockets where a
wise Rover mechanic plugs some mysterious tools for finding problems in
the wiring harness or something similar :-)) Perhaps I got the word
"inspection" to seriously....

Ciao
 Markus

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From: Michael Carradine <cs@unimog.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:57:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=EDa?= Feliz =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E9jico?= De la 

Happy Indepence Day Mexico!!

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From: Markus Korth <mkorth@systline.de>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:03:16 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: Weber, Zenith etc.

Hello again !

I just removed my good old Zenith for a cleaning session in my bathroom.
Besides the fact that now all my rooms smeel like a gas station and
besides the fact that I will get in real trouble when my wife gets back I
decided that this carburettor is worn out and needs a replacement. I have
seen the names "Zenith" and "Rochester" (sp?) in this list but haven't
seen anybody naming "Weber". My Rover expert told me this will be the
best replacement that will also save me some fuel (*Pah* - would drive
other cars if anxious concerning fuel). Are there any experiences
concerning Weber carburettors ? Or are they completely unknown (outside
Germany...) ?

Loosing consciousness
   Markus

--
Markus Korth              |      SYSTline 
mkorth@systline.de        |      Heiden Lemmermann 
Essen/Germany             |      Systemhaus GmbH
Key fingerprint = FA 10 36 1E A1 F7 F3 02  0D A9 14 60 A8 51 E4 D3

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Terje Krogdahl <tekr@nextel.no>
Date: 15 Sep 1998 19:12:46 +0200
Subject: Re: Parabolic spring updates???...Now TeriAnn...!

TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com> writes:

> Do you personally know anyone who has had them on their car for 10 years 
> who can verify this??  Do you know anyone who has had them on their car 
> for a year??

Well, a friend of mine has had a set under his SIIa 88" for a little over a 
year now, and he's very happy. Another has a set under his SI 107", but 
only for a couple of weeks. Both are extremely happy with the ride.

Disregarding the SI, as he has only had them for a few weeks, the other
vehicle has had no problems at all. No perceptible sagging (whereas
my own SIII 88" sagged over two inches within days of fitting
new OEM (British Springs) springs), and no problems with bushes.
Axle articulation seems to better as well. I witnessed the effectiveness
of his springs (better clearance & articulation) when I, following in his
exact tracks, highcentered my 88" on a rocky ledge that he smoothly
climbed down. Had to get out my hi-lift and do some serious recovery work.
One wheel was hanging in the air...

I'm not sure of what shocks he's running, but I could find out.

On the other hand, he managed to break one rear spring early this year.
The bit that broke was the helper leaf 
(see http://www.ticonsole.nl/parts/springs/nd.rear.spring.jpg for ill.)
but replacing it with a leaf from an ordinary spring seems to work nicely,
as the leaf does not come into play before the spring is compressed
quite a bit. How he broke it? He slid backwards, and the spring
collided rather heavily with a rock. It sort of stopped the vehicle
from a respectable speed. Don't think that a regular spring would
fare any better, but I'd rather not reproduce the incident to find out :-)

> I guess I'm just one of those people who can not choose what to purchase 
> without data.

I'm definitely getting a set as soon as my finances allow it. I just
need to purchase a new set of BGF TracEdges first, as my current set
resembles the slicks you'd want on a F1 car a sunny day in July...

> Here is some new Data, I do not know if my springs are OEM but they were 
> supposed to be high quality made in the UK springs.  I was listing badly 
> within 3 weeks.

The ones I consume a set of each year is "British Springs". My dealer
won't replace then under warranty any more, as BS refuses to take them
back. The failure rate seems to be somewhere between 25-50%...
Oh, and the ads I've seen for BS say something along the lines of
" made from high quality British steel". 

I've heard that the original LR springs are OK, but they cost even
more than parabolics over here in Norway.

-- 
Terje Krogdahl
Norwegian Land Rover Club
http://www.land.rover.no
1972 SIII 88" 2.25 (listing to the right)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:18:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Weber, Zenith etc.

Markus,

The Weber 34ICH is a common replacement carburettor on Rovers. Some love them,
some hate them.

They do give better fuel mileage, but tend to kill off some of the top-end
because of a narrow carb throat.

If you want the proper jet/'tube sizes for one, email me and I will forward.

                    Alan R.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:23:03
Subject: Re: Don't ruin your rover with J**p tricks.

	Tried to send this out yesterday but got no return message so don't know
if the major censored it.  Here it goes again, erase if it did go
through.

	The larger the tire, the greater the speed for the same rpm.  Mercedes
with their awesome German Engineering used different sized wheels/tires
on the driven wheels of their Formula cars of 1935-1939 vintage rather
than change the differential gearing.  Larger tires/wheels to get more
kph per rpm and higher speeds on the high speed tracks and smaller
tires/wheels for the greater rpm per kph and more acceleration on low
speed tracks.  The problem may be in the definition of terms.  The higher
the differential gearing like a 4.70. the lower the overall gearing or
more rpm per mph.

	As far as parabolics messing up the drive line, it hasn't been a problem
with mine.  The parabolics have fewer leaves and, thus, shorter spring
stack height.  They effectively lift the vehicle by the difference in the
stack height of the parabolic and stock springs.  This allows the stock
shocks to function with them as the shocks are seeing the same distance
as a stock Sprung truck even though the truck is riding higher.  The
problem is that the stock shocks suck after 100,000 or so miles and don't
work very well.  I'm also sure they don't allow the parabolics to reach
their full articulation potential.  OME and other shocks have more travel
than the stock woodheads and should be fitted to take advantage of the
full articulation potential of the parabolics.  The stock axle straps see
the increased ground clearance, however, and limit the travel of the
axles.  A set of lifted length (longer) check straps should give you
additional articulation.  My straps were in bad shape and broke soon
after I installed the parabolics.  Its been doing fine without the check
straps but I haven't been doing any <underline>extreme</underline> off
road stuff.  It has been off road and in 4wd everyday, as it has been the
entire 14 years that I've owned it, however.  One thing I noticed when
making the change was that the rear u-joint at the transmission at full
extension of the axle with no straps, had almost no clearance between the
u-joint yoke and the flange.  Boisterous use of the truck with a lift or
parabolics and no check straps will result in metal to metal contact of
the u-joints.

		As far as the nose of the differential, that's the part with 
the drive
flange.  Shackles will drop the nose of the front diff. and raise the
nose of the rear diff..  That will increase the drive shaft angle in the
front and decrease it in the rear.  I may be mistaken, but I thought
there was some mention of the Australian rovers having wedges installed
on the front differential to reduce the angle caused by the spring lifts
on the front axle.  A commensurate lengthening of the front spring mounts
would bring the nose of the differential back to level but not the more
favorable nose up attitude as found at the rear.

	If you look at http://members.xoom.com/remlr/swb/ you will see that both
109's and 88's in the Oz military have been lifted.  The lift looks to be
about the optimum for ground clearance/rollover resistance.  As far as
the front drive shafts.  The distances are the same for both the 88 and
the 109.  It is only the rear drive shafts that are different lengths. 

	For more ground clearance, the 9.5/33/15's are approximately 0.7" taller
than the 235/85/16's or the 7.50/16's.  It will gear the truck higher but
not significantly more than the 235/85/16's.  I'm constantly climbing
some damn steep obstructions and haven't run out of oomph with the stock
gears/2.2l petrol and 235/85/16's.  I've been traction limited but never
torque limited.  That's not the case on the road in 2wd high range where
I have to use 3rd gear to get up some of the paved roads around here and
first gear on my driveway. 

	As far as old springs sagging.  You can count on it.  A new set of
springs or re-arched old springs would probably restore the ground
clearance intended for the old ladies.  One figure I'd like to know is
the designed axle to frame distances for both the front and rear axles.
That dimension is the only way to check the actual sag over the years.
ANYBODY OUT THERE HAVE THE DESIGNED AXLE TO FRAME DISTANCE?

	As far as making up lengthened spring shackles on your own.  Be advised
that the shackles are threaded on the nut side and appear to be of a
hardened steel beyond straight mild steel.  Don't know if they're
engineered specifically for the purpose.  The ones off my junker had all
the holes elongated, however, and they didn't have all that many miles on
them.

	Last week I asked about the preferred way to install the shackles but
received no response.  I'll try again.  Do you snug the shackle bolts up
tight so the shackles twist the rubber in the bushings as the shackles
move or do you leave them a little loose so the shackles pivot on the
bolts.  I expect it makes a difference as my junkers shackles indicate.

	One thing I do know is that it ain't too awfully hard to get the greasy
side exposed to sunlight on a cross slope with the 16 wheels, BTDT.  A 2"
lift from stock would be as much as I would trust unless I was only doing
straight up and down challenges.  The old girl doesn't give much warning
when it exceeds its side stability.

Aloha Peter

1970 88

1965 88

1965 109

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:48:36 EDT
Subject: Re: Don't ruin your rover with J**p tricks.

Hey everyone, take a look at: **http://www.gowheels.com/sixstates/learn.html**
it explains some driveline concepts that will help us all.

--pat.

<<One thing I noticed when
making the change was that the rear u-joint at the transmission at full
extension of the axle with no straps, had almost no clearance between the
u-joint yoke and the flange.  Boisterous use of the truck with a lift or
parabolics and no check straps will result in metal to metal contact of
the u-joints.

		As far as the nose of the differential, that's the part with 
the drive
flange.  Shackles will drop the nose of the front diff. and raise the
nose of the rear diff..  That will increase the drive shaft angle in the
front and decrease it in the rear.  I may be mistaken, but I thought
there was some mention of the Australian rovers having wedges installed
on the front differential to reduce the angle caused by the spring lifts
on the front axle.  A commensurate lengthening of the front spring mounts
would bring the nose of the differential back to level but not the more
favorable nose up attitude as found at the rear.>>

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:01:00 EDT
Subject: Re:  U-joint angles, etc.

In a message dated 9/15/98 1:49:17 PM, you wrote:

<<Hey everyone, take a look at:
**http://www.gowheels.com/sixstates/learn.html**
it explains some driveline concepts that will help us all.

--pat.>>

Ooops. You can start at the main page.
**http://www.gowheels.com/sixstates/index.html**

sorry, bout that.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:53:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=EDa?= Feliz =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E9jico?= De la 

[Oops... the Subject line was truncated by the Major]

Día Feliz Méjico De la Independencia!!

Happy Independence Day Mexico!!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:50:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Brake bleed nipples

The Becketts wrote:
> "Bryn Hackland" wrote:
> > Anyone got a method for removing corroded in and rounded bleed
> >nipples that  just refuse to budge.
> Paul Wakefield replied:
> >I bet they'd move during being drilled out with an anticlockwise drill bit.
> Some years ago I was at a mate's place and he complained about the new drill
> bits he had bought - they were bloody hopeless at drilling.  He asked I
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 14 lines)]
> the flutes wound the wrong way.  I've never seen a set of left had drill
> bits before or since.
	Big A auto parts stores stock left hand drill bits designed for
removing stuck bolts.

Jim Hall

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:15:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Parabolic spring updates???...Now TeriAnn...!

Terje Krogdahl wrote:

> The ones I consume a set of each year is "British Springs". My dealer
> won't replace then under warranty any more, as BS refuses to take them
> back. The failure rate seems to be somewhere between 25-50%...
> Oh, and the ads I've seen for BS say something along the lines of
> " made from high quality British steel".

 BS, I guess the name says it all!

Jim Hall

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:45:23 +0200
Subject: Contradiction in terms?

High quality British steel?

isn't that a contradiction in terms - like -

non rusting land rovers
honourable lawyers
sober judges
p*ss*ed newts

apologies to lawyers, judges and newts on this one folks...

:-)

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:00:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Contradiction in terms?

At 09:45 PM 9/15/98 +0200, Adrian Redmond / Denmark wrote:
:
: High quality British steel?
:
: isn't that a contradiction in terms - like -
:
: non rusting land rovers
: honourable lawyers
: sober judges
: p*ss*ed newts
:
: apologies to lawyers, judges and newts on this one folks...
:
: :-)

 "High quality British steel"

 By some is a known as a quadruple oxymoron  ;)

 Any combination of words in the phrase with 'British'
 is conradictory.  There is no such thing as...

 British Steel
 Quality British
 High Quality British
 Quality British Steel
 etc, etc

-Michael

 '50-80", '72-88", '89-RR
 '55-404S Unimog

 

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From: William Leacock <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:56:07 -0400
Subject: Extended shackles

Alan writes    When this happens, the body of the axle is going to rotate,
pointing the nose of
the diff upward (or so I see it).
 It depends on whether you are looking at a front diff or a rear diff !! 
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:51:01
Subject: slumping

I bet either Dow or GE makes their slumping silicon. I will start the
search tommorrow 8^). Could they have this wonder product in OZ and not
here in TOON TOWN?

Jim Wolf

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Paul Lonsdale <Lonsdale@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:52:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Capstan winch parts

<< You must've be connected (quite by chance) to someone who actually 
knew
what they were talking about.  When I called Superwinch a while back, 
the
bloke   never *heard* of Fairey, let alone any capstan winches....  
Cheers >>

 I called Superwinch in Tavistock, Devon, UK.
 
 The very friendly French (could tell by her accent) lady answered my 
questions and sent me an installation and instruction manual for the 
current Superwinch capstan winch. I was calling after shearing the 
brass pin while turning the engine over on the handle. She gave me the 
part number of the brass pin & the part number of the steel pin I 
should have used for hand cranking (Doh!). Then she pointed out that on 
the winch I have there should be three spare pins screwed to the 
baseplate. I went out and looked, and there they were...
 
 You should have seen the gloop that came out of it when I drained it.
 
 Paul

 Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:38

 Ex- H.M. Coastguard Series III 88 Inch
 "Dougal Mc Landie"  B 895 OJT
 

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:46:43 EDT
Subject: Re: older LRO's

In a message dated 15/09/98 04:16:14 BST, you write:

 And I thought you just needed Frank Elson's e-mail address. Now, why'd i even
 think that? ;-)
  >>
let's have a little deference to you olders and betters, young man..... :-)>

anon

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:46:47 EDT
Subject: Re: Parabolic spring updates???...Now TeriAnn...!

In a message dated 15/09/98 16:54:55 BST, you write:

 Do you personally know anyone who has had them on their car for 10 years 
 who can verify this??  Do you know anyone who has had them on their car 
 for a year?? >>
TeriAnn,
we have had the parabolics on the LRO Ser 11A for about 18months now and no
problems that I know off. I've only driven it once myself and enjoyed the ride
compared to most Ser.
 Carl Rodgerson is on holiday right now but when he returns next week (he's
had most use out of the vehicle) I'll ask him for his thoughts.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:46:46 EDT
Subject: Re: Brake bleed nipples

In a message dated 15/09/98 14:32:43 BST, you write:

<< Another foreign tool tip: If you have a bolt head that you can't find an
 appropriate wrench or socket for, look in a discount hardware for some cheap
 Made in India tools. I've found that their tolerances often give me 1/2
sizes,
 and sizes to fit odd bolts. hmmm.
  >>
also get yourself a made in India socket set for rounded off bolt heads.
You'll find they (the sockets) tap on nicely and usually get the bolt out.
It's a once only thing tho'

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:46:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Welding and Buying UK stuff

In a message dated 14/09/98 16:22:49 BST, you write:

<< I guess you would have to re-do all the transmission systems with better
 quality materials for it to be trouble free. We'll have to live with
 Solihull quality control.
  >>
you could just shove a Salisbury in there...

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:50:51 +1000 (EST)
Subject: propshaft angles

There is an "applet" to calculate the "angular variation"
for various prop-shaft deflections and phase-angles at

   http://4wdonline.com/A.hints/Universal.html

(if I've tryped the URL rite)

The angular variation between input and output shafts is
one contributing factor to vibration but
  a) I don't know what variation is "tolerable" and
  b) there are many other possible causes of vibration.

A quick test would be to remove each prop-shaft in turn (one at a time:-),
driving the vehicle with 4WD (or centre diff lock) engaged
to see if this makes the vibration go away
(but be aware that unless there are c.v. joints in the front axle
there will be vibration in front-wheel-drive with the steering turned).

Lloyd

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 02:02:39 +0200
Subject: A cheap trick inspired by Elson's cheap tricks

A similar cheap trick to Franks India sockets is having a centre punch
which fits through the square hole in the centre of a socket - if you
have a bolt which needs drilling out, use this socket top centre the
centre punch so that you can position the drill bit in the centre.

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:36:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Capstan winch parts

Paul Lonsdale wrote:

>  I called Superwinch in Tavistock, Devon, UK.

Do you still have the phone number for Superwinch in Tavistock? Thanks.

David Cockey

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From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:39:11 -0600
Subject: Help! Sidney's stranded

Well, the gremlin that once plagued me on the journey up here has returned,
leaving poor Sidney stranded a mile or so from home. Here is the case file:

Background:

runs very well when not exhibiting the problem
difficult hot starts (I have to give it lots of gas)
new Zenith carb on 2.25 petrol
Bosch coil

Symptoms:

When hot (not always) he starts stuttering and then it feels like either
the fuel or spark is completely shut off. When it did this on the trip, I
brought back gas from a station, filled it up, and drove off. For the rest
of the trip I kept it above half a tank, as well as ripped the heat
insulation out from under the hood in case the carb was overheating. So
today it started stuttering again. It was hot and I had been in stop and go
traffic. I pulled into the gas station, which I happened to be right by,
and filled up. By the time I got to the intersection though, it was a
struggle to keep him idling. I pulled off into a neighborhood and tried
restarting, it would catch for a moment if I floored it, then died again. I
took off the intake hose and looked down the carb. Pressing the throttle
brought fuel into the bowl, so not vapor lock I guess?? I have an in-line
fuel filter so I watched as I pumped the fuel pump primer. Gas seemed to be
flowing fine. After about 15-20 minutes the beast restarted but took
constant attention to idle. I managed to repeat this a time or two, once it
actually idled smoothly for a bit. Finally I gave up and left it a mile or
so away. I'm heading back out to try and coax Sid the rest of the way
back...

regards,
joseph and sidney
Missoula, MT

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From: "A.G.Dolsa" <dolsa@emporion.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 02:46:16 +0200
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_D=EDa_Feliz_M=E9jico_De_la_?=

Felicidades a los mexicanos que lograron escapar del dominio de la Corona de
Castilla

Happiness to the Mexicans that achieved to escape of the dominance of the
Castille

              ===============   Alfons G. Dolsa
             //  ||--------||   Entomologist
            //   ||        ||   Museum of Butterflies of Catalonia
   __####__//____||________||#| http://www.emporion.net/museu
  [-------/ -----Land Rover-|#| 86" - 88"III - 88"III
  |_____  |      |   _____  |#| http://emporion.net/landrover.htm
  //---\\_|______|__//---\\ |_
[-<  o  >\_________/<  o  >\_]
   \___/             \___/

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:20:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Damn Bolt!

I got this nasty screeching sound from my brakes yesterday, and again
today.  Pulled the rear wheels and drums, the right one was fine, the left
one was...  You know those two bolts that hold the trailing shoe to the
little metal piece that holds the shoes on the piviot point?  One of them
worked loose and chewed up half my drum!  I suppose I should replace it
(someday).  Well, put another bolt on and tightened it up nicely (this time
at least!) - works fine now w/o nasty noises.  Cheers - Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:38:31 -0600
Subject: Sidney's home! (but still needs your help)

Hi guys,

If you've read my recent post (if not please do!), I just want to let you
know Sid made it back to the dorm lot and is sleeping soundly after a
stressful day. So that gives another clue to the mystery: after sufficient
cooling, it runs fine. Thanks for your help,

-joseph and sidney
Missoula, MT

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:42:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Trade Petrol Engine for Diesel & Conversion

I have a petrol 2.25 engine from my parts car, non-running but non-seized.
It is ready to be pulled, and located in Cortland NY.
I'd like to trade it for a 2.25 deisel.

I would like to turn my daily driver into a diesel.
It is a 1965 IIa, SWB, ExMoD with overdrive.

Currently I am having the valve seal problem.  I think my rings are
begining to allow oil to be burned.  On top of that I need to either get a
new carb or grind flat and bush my solex.

The odometer is a 70000.  Compression is 125 across the four of 'em.
(I didn't know I should do this with the throttle open, so it might be higher).

So in the long run, I probably need rings, a head rebuild, and a new carb.

The gas milage is killing my wallet;
especially since I drive mostly around town.
I really like the idea of possibly doubling the gas milage.
I can deal with slower acceleration.

I want to drive a diesel before I convert, so I can hear how loud it can
be, etc. etc.
Any diesel rover owners in upstate NY?

I think rather than rebuilding the whole diesel engine, I'll rebuild only
what's needed, and swap onto my petrol.

>From a parts list it looks like I'll need diesel pistons, connecting rods,
camshaft, head and gasket, exaust manifold, fuel pump, injectors, injector
pump, and glow plugs.

Looks like the block and crank are the same, along with the water pump, oil
pump, and timing gears/chain - correct?

Are there any other diesel specific things?  Are diesel springs necessary?

So what do you all think of the rover 2.25 diesel?
Are diesel engines more 'quirky' or problematic than the petrol?

Has anybody successfully done a conversion like I'm talking about?

Thanks in advance & cheers -  Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "luke" <lukanius@unimog.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:47:35 -0700
Subject: Re: Sidney's home! (but still needs your help)

vapor lock? has all of the symptoms...
-luke
----------
>From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
>To: lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject: Sidney's home! (but still needs your help)
>Date: Tue, Sep 15, 1998, 7:38 PM

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:18:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Help! Sidney's stranded

>From Ray Wood.

Two things happen in hot weather to give symptoms like yours.

1 Fuel boils in carburettor. This can be caused by a missing carb
insulator. This is a black phenolic spacer under the carburettor.

2 Heat from the block warms up the fuel in the fuel pump causing a vapour
lock. This is more common on 109 station wagons with rear tanks. What often
happens is that it runs fine until you stop. The cooling effect of new fuel
in the pump is now lost and the fuel in the pump vapourizes. If you start
up again after a short time the beast runs a couple of hundred yards on the
fuel in the carb bowl and then stalls.  If you park longer all cools down
and it works well.

When we were running Green Road Wilderness Expeditions here this was a
constant problem with heavy loaded 109 Safaris on steep grades when the
tank becomes significantly lower than the mechanical fuel pump. We only
cured this completely by fitting electric fuel pumps close to the tank.

    ^   ^
   (OvO)
 V(      )V
----+-+-------

Check the Wise Owl Website
www.bcoffroad.com/wiseowl

----------
> From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: Help! Sidney's stranded
> Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 5:39 PM
> Well, the gremlin that once plagued me on the journey up here has

returned,
> leaving poor Sidney stranded a mile or so from home. Here is the case
file:
> Background:
> runs very well when not exhibiting the problem
> difficult hot starts (I have to give it lots of gas)
> new Zenith carb on 2.25 petrol
> Bosch coil
> Symptoms:

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 13 lines)]
> the fuel or spark is completely shut off. When it did this on the trip, I
> brought back gas from a station, filled it up, and drove off. For the
rest
> of the trip I kept it above half a tank, as well as ripped the heat
> insulation out from under the hood in case the carb was overheating. So
> today it started stuttering again. It was hot and I had been in stop and
go
> traffic. I pulled into the gas station, which I happened to be right by,
> and filled up. By the time I got to the intersection though, it was a
> struggle to keep him idling. I pulled off into a neighborhood and tried
> restarting, it would catch for a moment if I floored it, then died again.
I
> took off the intake hose and looked down the carb. Pressing the throttle
> brought fuel into the bowl, so not vapor lock I guess?? I have an in-line
> fuel filter so I watched as I pumped the fuel pump primer. Gas seemed to
be
> flowing fine. After about 15-20 minutes the beast restarted but took
> constant attention to idle. I managed to repeat this a time or two, once
it
> actually idled smoothly for a bit. Finally I gave up and left it a mile
or

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Steve Mace" <steve@solwise.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:09:37 +0100
Subject: Re: Help! Sidney's stranded

On 15 Sep 98, at 18:39, Joseph Broach wrote:

> runs very well when not exhibiting the problem
> difficult hot starts (I have to give it lots of gas)

Not saying that this is the reason but I had very similar 
problems which I attributed to fuel vapourisation due to 
heat under the bonnet. I had poor idles, difficult to start 
and sometimes would just plain stop when at lights (all 
when the engine was hot)!

Unfortunately these problems started at the same time 
that I did a number of additions: I insulated the engine 
bay, fitted a Webber carb, and electric fan and a pancake 
filter for the Webber. It then started playing up.

I then refitted the Zenith and the old oil batch filter and the 
problem went away. I think it was due to the Webber carb 
being more susceptible to this problem but also because 
the new pan-cake filter I fitted allowed the engine to 
breath in very hot air from directly above the exhaust 
manifold. The old bath lets it draw in relatively cooler air.

Hope this helps...

Steve Mace

1972 SIII LtWt
1993 D90
In the UK
Name: Dr Steve Mace
E-mail: steve@solwise.co.uk
www: http://www.solwise.co.uk
Tel: +44 1482 473899
Fax: +44 1482 472245

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From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:36:54 +0000
Subject: Re: Inspection light sockets

 I thought that "inspection light sockets" are sockets where a
>wise Rover mechanic plugs some mysterious tools for finding problems in
>the wiring harness or something similar :-))
Oh I see...I think you may be confusing "inspection" with "diagnostic"
here.The diagnostic sockets on modern tinware that allows a "mechanic"
to plug your car into the wall and tell you that you need a new one
of whatever the most expensive option is.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:52:38 +0000
Subject: Re: Inspection light sockets

>Does anyone know the reason why so much of the standard LR electrical
>installation is unfused - seems like a recipe for disaster to me?

A recipe for *avoiding* disaster Adrian.It was well-known at Solihull
that farmers usually kept large supplies of the necessary in their
vehicles.Such as four and six inch nails(four inch for precision work
and six inch for general purposes)bailing wire,barbed wire,and all the
things which a bucolic existence required.These were not cheap,and it
was realised early in the design phase that should one of these new fangled
"fuse" things become inoperative it would have to be replaced by one
item of these on board supplies.Which would mean that quite possibly
the essential six inch nail,in replacing a totally unnecessary fuse,
would,in all likelihood be the cause of rendering a fence not stockproof.
To the annoyance and inconvenience of the farmer,whose friend the
Land Rover was supposed to be.So the decision was taken to fuse only
those items which would be lightly loaded.Heavy duty stuff would be
straight wire.Farmers understand wire.Its what keeps 't cows in 't
field,and could, moreover,be repaired with the rusty bits which were
too small to use for anything else.
What a concept! Conservation,re-use of materials,saving the very steel
that caused the birth of the vehicle.Are we not indeed lucky to possess
such a versatile machine!
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:40:03 +0200
Subject: Erroneous fusing concepts

Well be it Mike - jiuce in't fence keeps cows in't field, but the use of
"Manchester screws" (six inch nails - soory Frank!) is not good
electrical practice.

I once had an employee who owned a really old Volvo Amazon - which was
prone to run the battery flat - she once jump started it from my 88, and
being of the weaker sex (Ooops! sorry TeriAnn - being unaccustommed to
motor electrics) she ignored that her Volvo was positive earth - result
- she blew all her fuses, whilst my cable loom melted before her eyes -
"Hej I know Land Rovers are supposed to smoke but..." she said to me. By
then it was too late - a 120 Amp battery had succesfully cooked the all
british high quality loom, and it had to be rewired - a process which
took several years before all the faults were eventually discovered and
repaired.

I always think of this every time I get on a plane and see the ground
crew connecting the power to start the aircraft - let's hope that Alaska
Airlines don't have any positive earth a/c (or maybe theyre all pos
earth?)

Many moons ago, before I was drawn to telvision and film production, I
trained as an electrician. I remember clearly a day when the instructor
built a houshold installation on the bench, hooked it up to a very large
isolating transformer, replaced the fuses with nails, and stuck a
shorted 13A plug into the socket - I watched whilst the entire wiring
cooked. Since then, I have had respect for fuses. One can bodge the
entire installation, but if the fuses are correctly installed and rated,
and the earth connection is sound, then danger to life and loom is
minimal. Given the 300 ampere welsh sheep farmer rates very slow blow
nine-inch fuse scenario, our Rovers aren't worth calling electrically
protected.

I don't know about other vehicles - I rarely drive them - but i expect
an electrical installation to be fully fused - and with the exception of
the starter motor, mine is.

I never saw the real logic behind not fusing things - it costs little,
and provides a perfect point from which to hook things up and isolate
problems when fault finding.

Yours amperelywise,

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Markus Korth <mkorth@systline.de>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:21:34 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Re: Inspection light sockets

 >  I thought that "inspection light sockets" are sockets where a
 > >wise Rover mechanic plugs some mysterious tools for finding problems in
 > >the wiring harness or something similar :-))

 > Oh I see...I think you may be confusing "inspection" with "diagnostic"
 > here.The diagnostic sockets on modern tinware that allows a "mechanic"

My knowledge of the English language often has the same attribute as
my car: In some places rusty...

Ciao
 Markus

-- 
Markus Korth              |      SYSTline 
mkorth@systline.de        |      Heiden Lemmermann 
Essen/Germany             |      Systemhaus GmbH
Key fingerprint = FA 10 36 1E A1 F7 F3 02  0D A9 14 60 A8 51 E4 D3

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