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From: Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca
Subject: Bear Country, GPS, No LR content
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:35:00 -0500

The comments about bear country coincided with the chapter I read last
night in "Heartbreaks and Heros",  a new book about the Canadian
Parachute Rescue (SAR). To quote "When they found seven boots with the
feet still in them, they knew the grizzlies had got there first" .

Watch the bush as well as your GPS display.

------------------------------

From: kerryscott@usa.net
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:56:05
Subject: Help?

What am I doing wrong?  I keep coming to the list for help and get no response. 
 Well that's not quite right; I did get fussed at when I made the mistake of 
sending my first request in all caps.  Most recently I asked for help on rear 
main seal and clutch issues and seem to be being ignored.  What gives?

____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:00:21 EST
Subject: Re:  Help?

In a message dated 2/25/98 7:56:25 AM, you wrote:

>Most recently I asked for help on rear main seal and clutch issues and seem
to
>be being ignored.  What gives?

I've read all sorts of replies re: rear main seals. Now I know, if I ever get
one, that on a Series rig, it is easier to pull the engine to do the rear main
seal, and that if it is just a dime sized spot to ignore it and wait till
something else has to be done, etc., etc...

I would check your old mail or the archived digests as I've definitely seen
lots of postings on the topic. 

Also discussed were Sii vs Siii clutches, horizontal & vertical and some other
things I glossed over.

pat
93  110

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:02:43 +0000
Subject: Re: Help?

There was a whole discussion about rear seals in the past few days.
I skipped over it, 'cos I knew nothing about them.

Maybe there's something up with the major or your ISP.

I'm CCing this directly to you, so you should get 2 copies...

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:25:26 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Help?

kerryscott@usa.net wrote:
> What am I doing wrong?  I keep coming to the list for help and get no 
response.  Well that's not quite right; I did get fussed at when I made the 
mistake of sending my first request in all caps.  Most recently I asked for 
help on rear main seal and clutch issues and seem to be being ignored.  What 
gives?

 I think you must have missed some posts there has been a lot of
discussion on main seals, It was not address to you personally because
very often thats how this list seems to work ie. a question will spark a 
discussion rather than a direct reply. Don't give up thereis lots useful
info and helpful folks out there.
    John and Muddy

------------------------------

From: ivosloo@cs.up.ac.za
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:22:59 +0000
Subject: Re: Rear Main Seal

Christopher,

>Hilarious... I guess I should consider myself lucky and sit tight
>with the leak I've got...

I'm sorry to be the one who has to break the news.  But.  It is a
well-known fact that if you are in a position to consider yourself
lucky, you should keep it a secret - now that you've told us, the
suspicions of the gods of Girling, Lucas himself or some other mongrel
has been roused and will surely take action to help you be more normal
(successful? ;-).

- Iwan Vosloo
( 1975 SIII 88" Diesel )

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Help?
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:48:08 -0800

This is the first time I've "seen" you.
I only give sincere answers

Cheers
David

1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
Ural Motorcycle
Ingrid 38, ketch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:43:49 -0800
From: john hess <jfhess@dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Marvel Mystery Oil

Actually,

the marvel oil company is still around and still sells a top cylinder
oiler.  I bought one an installed it on the domrie just last week as part
of a keep the newly rebuilt engine operating forever policy.

The don't take plastic;  mail them a chcek for $89 and they mail you a
container for the oil plus some tubing.  The tubing hooks into your PCV
system or any other vacuum hose that goes into the carb.  1000 miles per
quart is what they recommend.

Marvel Oil Co.
331 N. Main St.
Port Chester NY
914 937 4000
fax 914 937 4004

The containers come in smaller sizes (but they're glass!) as well as a 2
quart and 4 quart which are aluminum.  I got the two quart model.  BTW, in
a throw-back to days past, they actually include a quart of the oil with
purchase!  And they ship as soon as they get your check, no waiting around
for it to clear.

If you contact them, tell 'em you have Land Rover, I'm trying to get them
interested in Rovers!

John F Hess   jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us
Land Rover Dormobile web pages:
http://wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us/~jfhess/homepage.html
1968 Land Rover Dormobile "Elvis"
1960 swb pu "Stubby" (actually Katherine's),
1960 swb roadster "Slug" (Alex's) Slug needs everything, donations accepted

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:47:32 -0500
From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Subject: MMO

Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca wrote:

>I'll have to get a can next trip to the US. Help me with some stiff 
>joints and a sore arse after unfolding myself from the 88. Hmmm, maybe I 
>should reword that...

Mmmmm...Marvel Mystery Oil smells good enough to be a desert topping...or a
linament.  Who knows what else it'll do?  (Kinda like reading the label on
Dr. Bonner's soap....)  The stuff really does *seem* to work, though; I use
it in the Ampco vapor lubricator to off-set the deleterious effects of
unleaded on my non-stellite exhaust valves.  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-Rover is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:52:49 -0800
From: john hess <jfhess@dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: marvel oil again

someone wrote:

Last year we were looking for Marvel Mystery Oil, they do not have a
website, they do have an e-mail address:

Marvel Mystery Oil

CORLISSBS@aol.com  Brad E. Smith

I just got an email from them and here's the info.

David Troy
Marketing Operations Manager
E-Mail:  dtroy@marveloil.com

Marvel Oil Company, Inc.

Maybe they do have a web site now.

PS.  Marvel by the gallon is $10.  Use 4 ounces per tank.  Less than the
$3-4 mr adams mentioned.

also, ren-ching must be very similar to the zen of engine installation.  as in:
We could get the 2.6 to line up with the tranny out and slide in.  lifting,
tilting, twisting, pushing, it wouldn't go.  Loren, my rebuilder, says
lets's take a break to contemplate the zen of the engine.  we had coffee
and taosted home-made bread with gobs of butter.  Came back out, did the
same gyrations and were rewarded with a satisfying sound as the engine
engaged the shaft of the tranny and slid down all the way , mating the bell
housing holes with the studs coming off the flywheel housing.  Zen is good.

John F Hess   jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us
Land Rover Dormobile web pages:
http://wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us/~jfhess/homepage.html
1968 Land Rover Dormobile "Elvis"
1960 swb pu "Stubby" (actually Katherine's),
1960 swb roadster "Slug" (Alex's) Slug needs everything, donations accepted

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Subject: About your seal question...
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:10:08 -0800

I saw a pile of answers to this topic, and  they could be summed up as:
77% - against pulling the engine or tranny to correct the problem
12% - dead against it because they tried it and it did not help
11% - thought you should go through the agony of replacing it

Of those against, the bulk of the people chose prudent monitoring of the oil
level.
My land Rover also marks its territory...from a variety of places (except
the rear main seal).  I roll under every 600-1000 miles to add a bit of gear
oil to the RFH, LFH, Trans and RD - I know what is leaking and it is only a
little.
I prefer to keep an eye on things.  I have had loads of older vehicles and
have made the mistake a few times of changing out seals, when the worn seal
was quite happy with all the rest of the worn parts.

Cheers
David

1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
Ural Motorcycle
Ingrid 38, ketch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:56:21 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: marvel oil again

john hess wrote:
> someone wrote:
> Last year we were looking for Marvel Mystery Oil, they do not have a
> website, they do have an e-mail address:
> Marvel Mystery Oil
> CORLISSBS@aol.com  Brad E. Smith

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 31 lines)]
> engaged the shaft of the tranny and slid down all the way , mating the bell
> housing holes with the studs coming off the flywheel housing.  Zen is good.
 Vould zat be "zen ve put zee engine in zee car"?
     John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:05:53 -0800
From: Peter <nosimport@mailbag.com>
Subject: Re: marvel oil again

john hess wrote:
  Loren, my rebuilder, says
> lets's take a break to contemplate the zen of the engine.  we had coffee
> and taosted home-made bread with gobs of butter.  
Perhaps it's not just the Zen...Perhaps its the "Tao"sted that did it!
Cheers    Peter 60-109+64-88+70-88+73-88 = ?
-- 

http://www.mailbag.com/users/nosimport/

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 11:06:17 EST
Subject: Re: Bearing and seal.

>I found the Half Shaft bearing to be toast. 

I've got one if you want it
     > What i'm after is if there is a major part number for this bearing 
     >and seal so I can cross ref it at the local bearing house instead 
     >of overnighting one for BP or RN. 

or I could just get the # off it

          >Also, Does the race for that bearing have to be pressed on? any 
     >tricks o the trade. I imagine I can cold chisel the old one off if 
     >need be.

Not sure here, mine were ok, so I didn't use the ones what came with the kit.
There's a tool for splitting these things off, but it aint worth buying one 
just for one use. Doubt you'll be able to break it with a chisel, its bound to 
be pretty hard stuff. I suppose it might shatter, but I kinda doubt it. The new 
one could be tapped on with a *long* piece of pipe.

later
DaveB

------------------------------

From: "Chris Dillard"<cdillard@Aholdusa.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:09:52 -0500
Subject: Re: marvel oil again

-106 ????

I don't get it?????  Or is it jut me?

Chris Dillard
91 RR County
Ahold USA (Bi-LO Inc.)
cdillard@aholdusa.com
Greenville SC USA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:19:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: nelsml73@snyoneva.cc.oneonta.edu
Subject: Re: MMO

I've used Marvel a number of times and have found many older mechanics who
swear by it, It smells good because among other things it has oil of
peppermint in it which was an OLD OLD cure for stuck valves and cleaning
carbon deposits, in fact thats all I've really used MMO for is freeing
stuck valves and occaisonally set up engines. I'v enever had to use it in
My LRs but in some old Flathead willys that had set for decades as well as
some other cars I've fooled around with its really done a good job. Some
people claim that plain old ATF fluid would do the same thing for stuck
valves... but I've always stuck with MMO and I've been happy with the
results, I have to admit though I've never used it for anything other than
reviving engines that sat around for ages but for stuck valves dump a bit
in the Carb while its running and let it run the engine will usually pick
up the valve shortly, if not try again...As for set up engines just dump a
bit in the cylinders and wait, I usually do this in preparation for
starting any engine that has sat around in a lot or barn for years...

Good lock,
Matt Nelson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:35:27 -0500
From: Keith Mohlenhoff <krm@nj.paradyne.com>
Subject: Diesel Information and noise

To combat noise in my diesel I have attached 1/2" foilfaced insulation
purchased at PepBoys to the underside of my bonnet and to the bulkhead
on the engine side. I also put weather stripping along the two side
edges of the bonnet. This has helped a bit with the noise and to some
degree with heat(PI). The changes above made more of a difference from
the outside of the vehicle than inside, but there was a noticable
difference inside. Either that or I've lost even more of my hearing. I
also used some of the same material under the transmission hump mat to
silence some of the gear whine. 

Little wads balled up and shoved in your ears helps too(Animal tested so
you know it's safe - we are animals aren't we) This last bit is is not
true. 

On the issue of Diesel additives and other small ways to gain
performance or fuel mileage or engine life, I think information is
always helpful and allows us to make informed decisions in all aspects
of our lives. Keep the info coming Jim.

Keith R. Mohlenhoff
63 IIA 5 door 2.25D
71 IIA 3 door 2.25P

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:106
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:06:22 -0800

That is a 109 with three inches pushed in from an impact.
Or is it a 109 with three inches removed in a parkade?
Or it was built in 106, October, 6th or is it the 10th of June - I always
forget which comes first.
Or it could be a tyypo, with fast flying fingers.

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: RE: PS....Grounding vs Insuation :WAS: Anti Rust Treatment.
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:04:40 -0800

Thanks David,

I have cleaned & primed the outside of most of my frame.  When the car
is rolling again (soon I hope) I plan to have the inside of the frame
steam cleaned, then I will waxoil the cr*p out of it!  And then park it
somewhere safe & let it drip for a week!

Paul.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:11:23 -0800 (PST)
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: Diesel Performance

Here are some general tips I learned on the chassis dyno while building up
a project vehicle for FOUR WHEELER. I am not including basic diagnostics. I
have just started into the final stage, which is turbocharging. This is a
non-Rover vehicle, and while the principles will apply, the results on
Rovers will be more modest due to the differences in   displacement (140cid
vs 380cid). I have been working with Stanadyne, who built the fuel
injection system for my rig, as well as Central Motive Power in Denver and
Northwest Fuel Injection in Columbus Grove, Ohio. These two independant
outfits both are highly impressive organizations, both in terms of their
customer service and their knowledge. I learned a great deal from them!
They EARNED this plug from me!

Step By Step

1) Engine Compression

        Run a compression test first and compare it with factory specs.
Since compression ratio is the vital element in a diesel, you must be up to
spec if you want to get the whole enchilada (or the enchilada-and-a-half).
A quick look through all my books could not find a compression test spec
for these engines (if someone has this, let me know the page # and the
manual, I have most of them from 2.25-200TDI but couldn't find it).
        I will make an EDUCATED GUESS based on  reviews of several other
diesel test specs consulted from engines with similar compression ratios.
After ahout 6 "pumps" you want to be over 300 psi and reletively even, with
an ultimate high of about 400 psi after about 10-12 pumps (wahtch your
battery and starter doing the test).You need a special testor with adaptors
for the glow or "heater" plugs in the head. The above specs are at sea
level, readings at altitude will be lower.

2) Injectors and Injection Pump

        These are the second key to diesel operation. Since diesels seem to
chug along year after year with little fiddling, performance degrades
gradually as these parts wear and it isn't noticed until you are outrun by
derelict cars without engines. The biggest lesson for me was to leave these
items in the hands of pros. I would suggest that step two of a performance
setup is to get these bits tested by an authorized dealer for the type of
pump installed (CAV into the 2.5L engines).
        If anyone says they can "set you up" by ear or other esoteric
means, run for the door. Many tight specs here that are not "eyeball"
measurements. With injector opening pressure critical to just a few PSI,
you need the test bench to dial it in. In my case, the pump was reasonably
OK (it was rebuilt at some point previously) but the injectors terrible (a
typical scenario).
        The dyno showed a 12hp increase after my pump and injectors were
rebuilt. That was really gaining back what I had lost (about 12%) due to
the innefficiency. If we take the 2.25s rated 62 bhp and drop it 12%,
that's 54.5hp, an 8hp drop.
        In some cases, there may be upgrades available for your pump to
improve operation. The adjustments (timing advance, fuel rate, etc) are
different for turbo diesels, so if you plan this mod the rebuilder may be
able to set your pump and injectors to this spec. You may need a more
modern 2.5TD pump, I really don't know on the Rover diesels. My pump was
able to be set up for future tubocharging, with just a few new tuning
adjustments needed at the time the turbo is installed.

3) Air, Fuel and Exhaust.

        The diesel is an unthrottled engine. The column of air over the
earth (14.7psi) forces air into the cylinders.There is no throttle
butterfly. The injection pump is calibrated to inject the right amount of
fuel for the amount of air the engine can bring in as assorted speeds. Any
more fuel than that is a waste and just results in more black smoke. Some
late emissions calibrated diesels can benefit from the fuel rate being
"cranked up" but I think the olden engines are about as fat as they can be
- until you give them more air.     Obviously, forced induction is the
answer but you can make improvements in NA diesels also.
        I picked up 2hp on my bone stock diesel with a K&N filter designed
to fit in the stock application. Intake system restrictions really cost
power on diesels, so anything you can do to free up the airflow will help
(bigger intake manifolds, free flow air filters, etc) because with more
air, you can give it a touch more fuel and the result is more power. If you
see a big jump in performance with air filter improvements, without a fuel
rate increase, this means that you were too rich already.
        As with any engine, the diesel will benefit from exhaust
improvments. What works for NA gas engines also worked for diesels (do the
petrol headers fit on diesels?), but like the intake system, the fuel rate
must increase to realize the benefits.
        I used a Banks "Stinger" kit for my non-Rover 6.2L diesel and this
kit consisted of a big 3" single exhaust and a free flow air filter kit (w/
an improved air horn & cool air duct). This improvment yielded 20hp on the
dyno after the pump was dialed in for it.
        I don't know the method for adjusting the fuel rate on a CAV pump -
it may or may not be adjustable by normal means in the home shop. My 6.2L
can be adjusted fairly easily, but again this is best left to the pros in
most cases. There is a corrolation between exhaust temperature (I recommend
a pyrometer in diesels, especially turbos) and fuel rate, but it gets
tricky.
         Banks recommends cranking the fuel rate screw in  a certain
specified amount (for the at home insto of their kit) and then verifying by
making a full throttle run up a hill and monitoring that the exhaust temp
does not exceed 1100 degrees for the 6.2L (mine will go almost to 1200 but
at stock specs, it would only go to 900 degrees). No, I don't think an
older Rover diesel will tolerate 1100 degrees. I'd measure the stock engine
in perfect stock and original tune and go from there (mount the probe in
the ex. pipe as near the head or collector as possible). I'm not going to
guess how hot you could go. Try it and tell me!

4) Intake Air Temp & Power.

        As with any engine, cooler air is more dense (more oxygen
molecules), so cooler intake air results in more power. Not much happens
until you exceed 90 degrees. After this, performance starts to drop. I
demostrated this on the dyno, after getting measured 94hp runs at 88
degrees intake air (as cool as I could get it there). I ducted hot air off
the exhaust manifold to the engine. At 115 degrees intake air temp, power
dropped to 87hp. At 134 degrees, power dropped to 84hp. At 155 degrees it
plummeted to 79hp. Obviously, cool outside air is answer, though you want
to make sure you won't be sucking up river water or make the intake system
so torturous that you lose what you gained.

5) Pump Timing

        A critical element. A lot of "tune by ear" guys want to advance
timing (on petrol or diesel) without investigating the nouances. There are
benefits in certain cases, but great harm can also be wrought. I recommend
setting it exactly to spec on a diesel unless you KNOW via objective means.

        Before I learned this, I stumbled on the right method if you happen
to have a dyno at home. Bear in mind that this is DIESEL stuff that doesn't
necessarily apply to gas engines. I started playing with the timing and
measuring the results on the dyno. I made the baseline tests with the pump
at the factory setting. I started advancing it in small increments and the
power levels rose gradually. At one point, the power started to drop off. I
left the engine set at the peak power setting, and combined with the
aforementioned stock replacement K&N air filter, I was getting a measured
102.5hp, 8.5hp over baseline.
        It turns out that when Central Motive Power checked the timing with
their equipment, I was at the ideal "power" setting listed in their specs.
This is an electronic timing light for diesels that's very accurate. I
don't know if there is a light that will fit on the Rover (I suspect there
is, because the tech made an offhand remark about having a light for
"everything" in their shop). A well equipped diesel injection shop would be
the best bet and I'd advise getting the timing set this way as it elimnates
the possible error of the static methods and compensates for timing chain
wear.

6) Forced Induction

        Don't have the turbo on the project yet, but some general research
yields tha tfact that this is the way to go. I have a 3/4 ton 6.9L diesel
PU with an aftermarket turbo kit on it and Yowza - 500lb-ft of torque from
an engine that made 340 in NA form! Hills do not exist for this truck!
        Diesels are prime candidates for forced inductionas menstioned
above, more air= more fuel= more power. On an old Rover, I'd be careful on
the amount of boost. 5.5psi boost will make the engine run like sea level
at 10,000 feet and it's well within the engine's tolerance (if it's not
worn out and you don't drive like a moron). After the 6.2L gets fitted
(next on th elist) I'll let you know how it went.

7) Fuel

        Good fuel is vital. The Cetane rating of fuel (equivalent to the
octane rating of petrol) has gradually dropped since low sulpher fuel was
adopted in 1992. It used to be rated as high as 60, but now 50 cetane is
about the best you can find. BTW, Total Petroleum (western USA for sure)
have the highest Cetane (50) rated fuel in Colorado right now according to
Central Motive Power. Generally, if the pump says "Premium" diesel, it's
probably 50 cetane or higher. Standard grades may only be 45 or so.
        Unlike a petrol engine that will voice displeasure by pinging when
given low grade, diesels just deliver less power, unless it's really
terrible fuel. Better fuel = more power.
        Lubricity is an issue also. Lubricity is the ability of the fuel to
lubricate the inner workings of the pump and injectors. Better lubrication
offers longer life to these expensive parts. The new fuels don't lubricate
as well as the old but while there is a wear issue for all pumps, it isn't
a major problem with all pumps. Some seem to do fine, others do not. I do
not know how the Rover pumps fare.
        You can add stuff to the fuel to help. The Stanadyne Performance
Formula does a great job in the tests I've seen and offers a cetane boost
as well (I picked up 8hp on the 6.2L with this additive as well as less
smoke as measured by a opacity meter). They also have a lubricity only
formula.
        Adding ATF, Marvel Mystery Oil and motor oil to the fuel does not
help much according the the tests I saw. Probably the easiest to find
lubricity additive I saw on the test list was STP Diesel Formula. It wasn't
the best by far but it dropped the wear down to just a hair above the 450
micron test limit. They run a new pump X number of hours on the fuel or
fuel/additive mix and measure the wear on internal componants. According
the the SAE, scratches under 450 microns are OK, but over that is an
indicator of inadequte lubrication and can cause early wear. STP was 460
microns, Performance Formula was 357 microns.

8) The Final Word

        Read and follow #1, 2 and #5 before you even try any diesel mods.
No kidding, a good "tune-up" from a QUALIFIED shop may make more difference
than anything short of a turbo. Petrol engines have a lot of flexibility
when it comes to tuning - diesels do not. A partly educated grunt in a
grungy, dark diesel shop with a 50 year old test bench (that hasn't been
calibrated in 40 years), if he has a test bench at all, cannot do the job
well.
        Again, I mention that the above are general commments based on my
6.2L diesel experiences. I make no claim to be a Rover diesel "expert",
though I'd like to find one to pick brains with. That it for now, gotta get
back to the book!

        Jim Allen

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: PS....Grounding vs Insuation :WAS: Anti Rust Treatment.
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:35:12 -0800

Park it on slope, then turn it around after three days!
David

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 12:10:05 EST
Subject: Re[2]: PS....Grounding vs Insuation :WAS: Anti Rust Treatmen

>In the winter, when they salt the roads, I use about a litre of used motor 
>oil and squirt it into the frame holes, everywhere.
>It does mess up you backside a bit for a couple of days, but I have an 
>original RUST FREE frame!  It is cheaper and easier than galvanizing.

try gear oil. CW says used motor oil is corrosive. 

later
DaveB who has done nothing to rustproof his frame 'cept for painting it. 

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: PS....Grounding vs Insuation :WAS: Anti Rust Treatmen
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:52:52 -0800

Naaa, I left all the corrosive stuff behind in the engine
Cheers
David

1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
Ural Motorcycle - Ingrid 38, ketch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:44:39 -0800
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Bearing and seal.

dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org wrote:
> Not sure here, mine were ok, so I didn't use the ones what came with the kit.
> There's a tool for splitting these things off, but it aint worth buying one
> just for one use. Doubt you'll be able to break it with a chisel, its bound to
> be pretty hard stuff. I suppose it might shatter, but I kinda doubt it. 

I would suspect that if the bearing was toast, the race will be as well. 
After all, it runs in it. Even if it's just scarred a bit it should be 
replaced. And yes, it will come off with a chisel. It'll crack it, 
thereby loosening its hold on the shaft and slipping off, just like snot 
on a hens......

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 13:08:17 EST
Subject: Re[2]: Bearing and seal.

>>just like snot on a hens......

I aint gonna TOUCH that one, Con...

DaveB

------------------------------

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:20:33 EST
Subject: Re: Help?

Could be the mail server that your "internet provider" uses.

For example - the TRUE Prince of Darkness, or Evil Empire, or whatever you
want to call America Online, has the occasional bad habit of sending my email
to me backwards (meaning, I'll get the responses before the questions),
sometimes days go by before I find out what the question was!

Charles

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 25 Feb 98 12:02:11 MST
Subject: Stainless steel gauze under carb.

From: <debrown@srp.gov>
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
                                    Pers. E-mail: rovernut@hotmail.com
Most likely true... back in the 70's (gas "shortages" the US) there used to
be a device similar to this, and the theory was that it atomized the fuel so
it could be burned more fully. Thus, better milage, and performance.

Never tried one though, but it makes sense...

Dave Brown

 Never give up your life for          #=======#         _____l___
 anything that death can take away.   |__|__|__\___    //__|__|__\___
                        -anonymous    | _|  |   |_ |}  \__ - ____ - _|}
                                      "(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 25 Feb 98 12:27:41 MST
Subject: OOPS!!! (Was: "Stainless steel...")

From: <debrown@srp.gov>
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
                                    Pers. E-mail: rovernut@hotmail.com
OOPS!!! I have fallen behind in reading the digests lately, and didn't
realize that this had already been disclaimed. As I said, I never tried it,
it only made sense.

"Dave B" (not the obnoxious one!) ;-)

 Never give up your life for          #=======#         _____l___
 anything that death can take away.   |__|__|__\___    //__|__|__\___
                        -anonymous    | _|  |   |_ |}  \__ - ____ - _|}
                                      "(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)

------------------------------

From: "Eyres, Richard RP" <Eyres.Richard.RP@bhp.com.au>
Subject: RE: Diesel Performance
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:02:00 +1100

Thanks for the info Jim, much appreciated.
Richard
1973 S3 SWB
New Zealand

------------------------------

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Subject: Re: In response to Jim's reply about diesels...
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:12:32 -0800

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:08:15 -0800
From: Clayton Kirkwood <kirkwood@kirkwood-desk.fm.intel.com>
Subject: Re: In response to Jim's reply about diesels...

At 04:35 PM 2/24/98 -0500, Adams, Bill wrote:
>As a Series Rover owner, and I think I speak for all on this list, I
care 
>little for preventive maintenance issues 'cept for oil changes and
such. 
>I just drive the sh*t out of the truck until something fails and then
the 
>truck sits until I fix it. 

Well, you don't speak for me.  I bought my Series III-88 new in 1973 and
still drive it today.  For the first ten years of its life it was my
only vehicle and was driven every single day.  It never once failed to
start except when the original battery went and I had to start it on the
hand crank for a few days.  It never quit on the road, and the engine
runs as smoothly and quietly today as it did the day I bought it.  I
would have to say it's been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned
other than my Range Rover, and that includes a VW Beetle, an Austin
Healey 3000, a Ford F-250 pickup, and a BMW 6-Series.

But this reliability does not come without a bit of effort.  Series Land
Rovers don't go very long without needing something adjusted.
Maintenance is extremely easy, in my opinion, and ignoring the little
things that crop up will lead to big expensive things in a fairly short
time.  While I may let things go a little longer today because I don't
depend on the Land Rover for daily transportation, when I did I
adjusted, fixed, or replaced anything that needed it immediately.  The
payoff has been a vehicle that has never once let me down mechanically
in 25 years.  (I've gotten it stuck a few times, but that was my fault.)

The only "major" problem I've had in 25 years of ownership was a pair of
burned exhaust valves at about 125K miles.  In addition to rebuilding
the head we also took the opportunity to hone the cylinders and fit new
pistons, rings, and bearings, although they were all in excellent
condition.  However, the cylinder walls had enough normal wear to raise
the issue of blow-by with the rebuilt head.  I also had the transmission
overhauled a few years ago, but that was prompted only by the joint
gaskets finally wearing out and leaking oil at a pretty fair clip; the
transmission and transfer case have always functioned perfectly.

I've replaced the radiator and the exhaust system once.  I replaced the
springs with 109 springs.  Clutch cylinders, brake cylinders and shoes,
and wheel hub seals have needed replacing from time to time.  But the
rest of the running gear is all original and has never needed repair or
replacement.  The vehicle still has its original swivel balls and seals
with no signs of pitting or leaking.  The only two mechanical problems
right now are both oil leaks, one from the steering relay (original
unit) and one from the crankshaft oil seal in the timing chain cover
(original seal).  Throughout the vehicle's life, I've replaced points
and plugs regularly and overhauled or adjusted the Zenith carburetor
when it seemed to need it.  (I switched to a Rochester carb for awhile
but then went back to the Zenith.)  The valve clearances get checked a
couple of times a year.  Outside of the engine and transmission
overhaul, none of the maintenance jobs on the Series take very long or
are very difficult if you have any mechanical ability at all.

As far as I'm concerned, spending money to buy a vehicle and then
ignoring its maintenance is dumb, and leads to people saying things like
"My (fill in name of vehicle here) is the most unreliable car I've ever
had."  I treat my 1991 Range Rover the same as the Land Rover, and while
I've had to rebuild a seat switch, fix a power door lock, overhaul the
front brake calipers, plus a few other minor maintenance jobs, for 90K
miles the reliability of the vehicle has been outstanding.  But nothing
lasts forever and I'm fully aware that things will start to conk out
pretty soon now.  By replacing or repairing them as they wear out I
expect to get every bit as much service life from the Range Rover as I
have from the Series.  Ignoring maintenance is far more expensive in the
long run than keeping a vehicle running right all the time.  This has
been proven to me time and again in the de Havilland Beaver floatplanes
I fly; vehicles are no different.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

------------------------------

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Subject: Kellogg inquiry
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:11:55 -0800

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:41:00 EST
Subject: Re:  re: 110 prices (was Re: Observations ...)

In a message dated 2/23/98 8:06:13 PM, you wrote:

>>Kellogg."  Is he connected with Land Rovers in some way in the Seattle
>>area?

>Are you kidding or are you serious? He has received quite a bit of
negative
flack on this list for his business practices and his high prices; both
of
which have apparently made people turn away from their rovers or just
not get
one. 

I bought my Series III-88 new in 1973 while living in Hawaii.  As there
was no dealership in Hawaii at the time (I ordered my vehicle through a
California dealer), I bought the parts and accessories I needed from the
original Atlantic British Parts, Tom Gannon,  who started in LA and then
moved to Lewiston, California.  I used Tom for parts until the early
1990s when he closed his business.  In 1979 I moved to Seattle where I
live today.  In 1991 I bought a new Range Rover Vogue SE, but when Tom
went out of business I started buying parts for both my Land Rovers from
the current Atlantic British and Rovers North.  As first Tom and now
Atlantic British and Rovers North have provided excellent service and
response I've had no reason to search any farther for parts
distributors.

But the only Land Rover parts and service company I am aware of in this
area, other than the current Seattle/Bellevue dealership, is in Olympia,
Washington.  It is located in a warehouse off highway 101 just west of
the interchange with I-5.  I drove up to the building on my way back
from the beach in December.  It was closed but there were several Series
Land Rovers sitting outside, mostly 109s in various conditions.  This
company has existed for years as I recall seeing their building (it has
a British flag painted on the wall facing the highway) not long after  I
moved to the area, although December was the first time I've actually
driven up to it.  In addition to the 109s there was what seemed to be a
Series I beside a big pile of rusty Land Rover frame sections.  The
building was closed and there were no windows so I have no idea of what
was inside.

Shortly after I moved to Seattle, Tom Gannon mentioned a Land Rover
parts and restoration company in this area that he said was notorious
for having extremely high prices.  I assume this is the Mr. Kellogg that
has been referred to on this list.  Is Mr. Kellogg's company the one I
just described in the Olympia area?  If it is, he's been in business an
awfully long time (20 years?), so I would imagine he's either
independently wealthy or he's doing something right.  I don't  know if
the Land Rovers sitting outside the building are for sale or if they are
customers' vehicles, but they represented some potentially nice machines
if someone was willing to put some time and effort into fixing them up.

I'm sorry if this is plowing ground that's been covered at length
before.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: RE: Kellogg inquiry
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:16:06 -0800

I think that the shop in Olympia is British Northwest Land-Rover Co.
[britishnw@land-roverco.com]  I could be wrong though.

Don't know if Mr. Kellogg is related to this company.  Anyone?

I have communicated with John McEwan at this company and he seemed to be
honest and his prices weren't too out of line (quite good actually.)

The only reason that I haven't bought from them is the current sh*tty
Canadian/US exchange rate...

Paul Quin
1961 Series II 88
Victoria, BC  Canada

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:03:58 EST
Subject: Re:  Kellogg inquiry

In a message dated 2/25/98 5:18:27 PM, Marin wrote:
[snip]
>>Shortly after I moved to Seattle, Tom Gannon mentioned a Land Rover
parts and restoration company in this area that he said was notorious
for having extremely high prices.  I assume this is the Mr. Kellogg that
has been referred to on this list.  Is Mr. Kellogg's company the one I
just described in the Olympia area?  If it is, he's been in business an
awfully long time (20 years?), so I would imagine he's either
independently wealthy or he's doing something right.  I don't  know if
the Land Rovers sitting outside the building are for sale or if they are
customers' vehicles, but they represented some potentially nice machines
if someone was willing to put some time and effort into fixing them up.

I think that's him, others will confirm; BTW those "good to partly running"
rovers are reputed to be in the $20K range, as we saw in an unsolicited ad to
the list a while back.

I'm sorry if this is plowing ground that's been covered at length
before.<<

No need to be sorry about this kind of topic, IMHO. There are always new list
members who ought to find out who the really unscrupulous traders are. I
remember his unsolicited posting drew a lot of negative response, even though
he (Kellogg) wasn't subscribed to the list.

pat
93  110

BTW, I agree with Marin on the preventative maintenance thing. I, too, am a
pilot, and rely on maintenance to keep me alive in the air and (maybe to a
lesser extent) on the ground. And at sea. (Anyone have a barient 27 drum they
don't need?)...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:22:41 +0100
From: Marijn van der Himst <marijn@multiweb.net>
Subject: 109-FFR wiring

Thanks all for replies to my other questions.....

Next one: *wanted*: a full wiring diagram for a (/my) 109'FFR ex-MOD 24 Volt
 (Richard Gurkha perhaps?) It's supposed to be in the one book i *did not* buy !

Anyone in The Netherlands prepared giving me a hand in order to get my rig
on the road *before* import taxes increase next may? 
Tools & general tech know-how available, and of course the odd six-pack...

Also nice trying to understand the slang used in some of the messages.. :>
cheers, Marijn
'74 109 awaiting MOT........

------------------------------

From: Kevin Sellitti <Kevinsel@gte.net>
Subject: RE: Marvel Mystery Oil and SS Mesh
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:54:49 -0500

------------------------------

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