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Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 04:04:25 -0800

------------------------------

From: "Paul" <P.M.A.Snoek@net.HCC.nl>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:10:18 +0000
Subject: RE: Frame coating

> I am considering a frame over and had planned to coat the whole thing
> inside and out with marine epoxy.  It is around $50-75/gallon.  Use the
> kind that is designed for steel ships.  It is very tough, has built n
> corrossion inhibitors, and completely seals the frame by encapsulation.
> I had planned to coat the inside by using a snake like they use to run
> wire in conduit to push a spray nozzle up into the length of the frame.
> It is important to coat both the inside and outside with a couple of
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 16 lines)]
> 68 109 NADA Safari Wagom
> Alaska

What if ther is major acident and you must welding it ??

Greetings,
P.M.A. Snoek
the Netherlands
Email: P.M.A.Snoek@net.HCC.nl
URL: http://web.inter.NL.net/hcc/P.M.A.Snoek/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 8:03:39 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Heavy duty Dormobile roof racks

This wouldn't be the result of a certain downgrade incident, would it?

One nice thing about custom racks is that you can have tabs and such 
welded on for all your accessories and doo-dads. Just be careful on those 
30 degree off-camber descents. JEEEZ!

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: 31 Oct 1997 08:30:37 -0400
From: "LT J Jackson" <lt_j_jackson@unixlink.uscga.edu>
Subject: SIII Radio

Thanks to all who responded with advice on mounting a radio in my SIII.  Can
someone provide a description, source and cost for the Tuffy Console?  I like
the overhead idea better, but I'd like to know the options.

Rgds,

Jeff Jackson
73 SIII 88 (Camilla)
Waterford, CT

------------------------------

Date: 31 Oct 1997 08:36:52 -0400
From: "LT J Jackson" <lt_j_jackson@unixlink.uscga.edu>
Subject: Painting Frames

I'm thankfully out of the frame preservation business (thank you, Msrs.
Marsland), but back in my pre-galv days I noticed something in Professional
Mariner magazine which might be useful - a product called "Corroseal".  From
the ad, the paint does not require primer when applied to steel and can be
successfully applied in less-than-perfect conditions, e.g., while underway in
the North Atlantic.  I don't have the ad, but a web search using the product
name should work. If anyone's really interested and can't find the company,
mail me off-line and I'll dig  it up.

Rgds,

Jeff Jackson
73 SIII 88 (Camilla)
Waterford, CT

------------------------------

From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Subject: RE: SIII-  Mounting a radio
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:45:02 -0500

Paul, 

Been following this thread and since nobody mentioned it, here are 2
alternative approachs to Series radio installation.  The 2nd is
currently mine.
I have considered nearly every method of radio/speaker/amp installation
and rejected all but these 2.  
First are 2 untried methods. 
1-  I have seen both weatherproof (resistant?) enclosures and
receivers/speakers, available from your local or mail order marine
outfitter.  This seems a reasonable choice for a Series vehicle.  I also
prefer the overhead shelf method of installation, as it doesn't tear up
the vehicle.  
2 - I am also considering installation of a permanently installed
locking tool box just behind the seat bulkhead, (ala Jeff Berg's setup)
although smaller in scope.  I envision installing the radio and speakers
in the lid of this box.  Picture the usual diamond plate pickup bed tool
box, with a lid that is @ 3" tall.  Scale it down to fit a Series.  One
could attach a small diamond plate box to the lid, using a marine
enclosure or marine rated receiver.  The box would provide the theft
deterrant. (Nothing is theft proof).  Speakers could be installed in the
lid as well.  With the receiver facing forward, it would be only a minor
inconvenience to reach around to tune it.  This could easily be solved
by using a remote control receiver.  Velcro the remote in a convenient
location.  Now lets talk about a CD player...installed in the tool box
of course, that won't skip off road...

Now that's my dream.  Here's my reality.  Based on the K.I.S.S.
principle.
I have one of those pickup truck seat top consoles sitting atop my
center seat cushion($38 from Costco).  Inside is my stereo system (w/
room for other things), which consists of the following high tech
components:
-  Sony AM/FM/TV, digitally tuned cassete WALKMAN.(@$60)
-  Noise Cancelling headphones(Sony, Koss & others make these - mine are
from Noise Cancellation Technologies - $69 from Sharper Image) a powered
headhone with microphones in the headset speakers that monitor and
effectively cancel out ambient noise frequencies.
-  Boostaroo - this is a battery operated device that allows up to three
headsets to be connected to the walkman, for passengers (WalMart -
@$19), optional.
@ $200, Total.  (I bet you already have the walkman...)

Upside:
As far as theft is concerned, I have had no problems what with
everything concealed in the console (provides 2 drink holders, too!) No
visible speakers, so the thief will probably think - no stereo here -
and pass you by.
Additional passengers pose no problem as the console is easily tossed
into the back.
In use this is quite satisfactory.  The key is the Noise Cancelling
headphones.  Prior to getting these this setup was marginal.  Now, even
with the radio or cassette off and the headphones on and powered up, its
actually quiet in my Rover at highway speeds.  Reception is good and
sound quality and stereo separation is excellent.  Portable, too (for
the campsite I have battery powered speakers along as well...)
You could also use a cigarette lighter adapter to power the "system".

Downside:  Buy your double A's in bulk by the case...(not that bad,
really).  

John Tackley
74 SIII 88
70 SIIA 88
Richmond, VA

------------------------------

From: DEFENDER@ibm.net
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:48:24 -0800
Subject: Re: SIII- Mounting a radio

I thought about having somthing like that manufactured out of metal for
my d90.  Let me know how your vision is.  I was concerned that the unit
would block my vision, especially when aproaching extreme grades. Also,
I would hate to bump my head on it!

William Pittman

1997 D90 WAGON

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:56:12 +0000
Subject: Re: SIII- Mounting a radio

I've been driving around for a few weeks with the shelf in place. It is
completely above the windscreen, so it doesn't affect visibility.

For head bumping, I'm fine, but a very tall passenger might hit their head
in an emergency brake situation.
Depends how good the seat belt is as well, of course (my passenger seatbelt
a bulkhead anchor rather than the "high" anchor ATM)

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

DEFENDER@ibm.net on 10/31/97 04:48:24 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Re: SIII- Mounting a radio

I thought about having somthing like that manufactured out of metal for
my d90.  Let me know how your vision is.  I was concerned that the unit
would block my vision, especially when aproaching extreme grades. Also,
I would hate to bump my head on it!
William Pittman
1997 D90 WAGON

------------------------------

From: DEFENDER@ibm.net
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:02:16 -0800
Subject: Re: SIII Radio

I have a tuffy console that I would sell.  It is the larger one that
they make, I can not remember the measurments.  If you are interested
let me know.  I do not remember exactly what I paid for it but it was
somewhere in the range of 200$ from Tarheel 4wd in Charlotte NC.

William PIttman

1997 D90 WAGON

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:02:26 -0500
From: Keith Mohlenhoff <krm@nj.paradyne.com>
Subject: Alternator and Battery needs for a winch

Hello;
3 questions for any and all

1. When fitting an electric winch how do you determine the battery
capacity and alternator output required?

Currently I have the 35A alternator

2. The rebuild kit I received for the brake wheel cylinders had little
metal balls included. What are the purpose of these?

3. I need to change the engine mounts on my 88", Can I use a floor jack? 

Keith R. Mohlenhoff
63 IIA 5door 2.25D (Odometer just rolled over... how many times this is
I don't know or care)
71 IIA 3door 2.25P

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:03:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Subject: Re: genuine v. non-genuine springs

>While I've got nothing on my new frame, I'm going to replace the springs
>(88"SW). One source swears by the Genuine LR springs but the cost has
>made me consider non-Genuine. What's the list think? I'd definitely pay
>for the Genuine if they'll last longer.>
>Thanks
>David Russell

I think you will hear from more than a few unhappy "Genuine Spring" owners
i replaced mine 1 year ago with "originals" and lets just say the jury is
still out.  I have noticed a slight lean to the right....  Not real happy
here.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh's Smallest, Biggest, Best, Worst, and Only Land Rover Club

------------------------------

From: Mark Sullivan <marks@dataflowsys.com>
Subject: FW: genuine v. non-genuine springs
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:25:18 -0500

-----Original Message-----
From:	Marks
Sent:	Friday, October 31, 1997 9:17 AM
To:	'lro@playground.sun.com'
Subject:	RE: genuine v. non-genuine springs

Russ, I don't know if I'm telling you what you already know? LandRover =
designed the springs to be stonger on the driver side! ie It will lean =
to the right (in a LHD) when no driver is in the vehicle. The idea =
behind it is obviously, when the drive is in the vehicle every thing is =
on the level.

I think you will hear from more than a few unhappy "Genuine Spring" =
owners
i replaced mine 1 year ago with "originals" and lets just say the jury =
is
still out.  I have noticed a slight lean to the right....  Not real =
happy
here.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh's Smallest, Biggest, Best, Worst, and Only Land Rover Club

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 9:45:53 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Alternator and Battery needs for a winch

1. You shouldn't need to upgrade your alternator and battery, but do use 
the fattest battery cable, like 0 guage or 2 guage for best results.
2. The little balls go in the bleed screw bores. This is what stops up 
the hole when you tighten the bleed screw.
3. Yup. If you're worried about the paint on your oil sump, use a block 
of wood between.

We like you, your questions are easy!

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:48:15 -0500
From: Mike Johnson <johnsonm@borg.com>
Subject: Re: FW: genuine v. non-genuine springs

Mark Sullivan wrote:
> I think you will hear from more than a few unhappy "Genuine Spring" owners
> i replaced mine 1 year ago with "originals" and lets just say the jury is
> still out.  I have noticed a slight lean to the right....  Not real happy
> here.

Not happy with "Original" either.  I think they were painted with water
color paints, starting to get surface rust.
They were very stiff at first then "fell" pretty quick,  not bouncy yet
but still not happy with the ride.  They are only one year old,  and I
have used them but thats what they were built for.

-- 
end
Mike Johnson
johnsonm@borg.com
http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm

------------------------------

From: "Cooper, Paul" <P.Cooper@shu.ac.uk>
Subject: FW: Painting Frames
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:15:21 -0000

The URL is as follows

http://www.corroseal.com/

Paul Cooper
Admin Computing
Ext.4560

-----Original Message-----
From:	LT J Jackson [SMTP:lt_j_jackson@unixlink.uscga.edu]
Sent:	Friday, October 31, 1997 12:37 PM
To:	lro@playground.sun.com
Subject:	Painting Frames

I'm thankfully out of the frame preservation business (thank you, Msrs. 
 Marsland), but back in my pre-galv days I noticed something in 
Professional Mariner magazine which might be useful - a product called 
"Corroseal".  From the ad, the paint does not require primer when applied 
to steel and can be successfully applied in less-than-perfect conditions, 
e.g., while underway in the North Atlantic.  I don't have the ad, but a web 
search using the product name should work. If anyone's really interested 
and can't find the company, mail me off-line and I'll dig  it up.
Rgds,

Jeff Jackson
73 SIII 88 (Camilla)
Waterford, CT

------------------------------

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:33:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: NLA Parts

In a message dated 97-10-28 14:00:08 EST, you write:

<< Hi Nate,
 
 How did you arrange to have the fender (wing) skins shipped over here?
 I'll be looking at the same purchase in the not to distant future (I
 hope)
 
 How much did they quote you for freight?
  >>

Just got off the phone with Craddocks.  They'll send them with either DHL or
 IFB (I think), depending on weight.  They will be in wooden shipping boxes
and the estimate for shipping is ~$110-120.  All toll, it will be about 1/2
of the RN price with the top piece of the fender thrown in for good measure.
 (Chris' estimate of 10X weight is probably about right).

Nate

------------------------------

From: "Erik Rameson" <Erameson@email.msn.com>
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:03:45 -0800

UNSUBSCRIBE

------------------------------

From: n4ptk@InfoAve.Net
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:36:50 -0600
Subject: RE: CB (AGAIN)

Paul, and all,

	I don't post much anymore, but I felt the need to comment on
the "Ham" aspect of this discussion.  Be aware now that I am talking
from a United States ham view.  Other countries have their own rules
concerning amateur radio operation.

	Ham's don't just "talk around the world".  You can get
equipment to talk around the world if you want.  BUT, you can
also us VHF "low band" equipment, VHF "high band" equipment, and
UHF as well as microwave if you want!  You can work satallites in
space orbit if you want.

	The "2-meter" band (144-148 MHz) is probably the most popular for
vehicular or "mobile" use.  There are repeaters all over the
country (U.S.) that are kept up by amateur radio operators and
clubs that you can use free of charge.  Many have "auto patches"
that you can use to patch into the phone system and make phone
calls from your vehicle (no business calls allowed).

	I have been a "ham" for many years and find them to be
a great, helpful, courteous bunch of people.  Top notch.  Try
it.  I think you will like it.  The new regulations here in the
United States doesn't even require Morse Code anymore for the
Technician Clas license.  This license will allow you to work
all the local bands, but you can't talk around the world.  That
basically require the next level up, the General Class which
does require code.

	In reference to marine band radios.  Yes, you can use them
on water craft, but I believe it is illegal to use them on vehicles.
Not sure, but you need to check and be sure.

	If I can be of help, e-mail me privately.

Larry Matthews
n4ptk
n4ptk@infoave.net

>Sorry, 
>My experience with HAM is very limited.  HAM is used primarily by radio
>amateurs for long distance communications - if you have the right
>equipment, you can talk around the world.  But that's getting really
>expan$ive!
>VHF is a basically a band of frequencies designated for use by
>commercial users (taxi's etc.) and marine traffic.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 28 lines)]
>>William Pittman
>>1997 D90 WAGON

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:03:36 +0000
From: John Trotter <trotter@research.bell-labs.com>
Subject: Re: CB (AGAIN)

When I  turned up for my offroading with a ham radio I soon realized
that it was pretty useless since I was the only one with one.  My next
purchase was a CB so I could communicate with the rest of the group
during trail rides.  The bottom line is that CBs are the most popular
offroad radios.

My philosophy on mounting CBs is that while a good ground is important
for the antenna it’ll probably be OK to mount it almost anywhere for the
ranges needed for offroad.  I use an antenna mounted on the brush bar
(which is electrically isolated from the rest of the car) and a cheap
radio shack CB, and it works just fine for communicating while on the
trail.

On the ham front there are several options - Hams use 2M handhelds (that
operate at about 140MHz (VHF) and 440MHz (UHF)) for "local"
communications.  You can get tens of miles with these radios and there
are many repeaters in the US that, on certain frequencies, will
rebroadcast your signal allowing you to communicate with other hams far
further away.  This is a popular band for hams and you often here other
people on this frequency although not many offroaders have them.
Mounting these radios is quite simple, with less constrained grounding
when compared to CB.  There are other bands available to hams in the VHF
and above area (220MHz for instance), but they are less popular.  To
operate here you’ll need a Technician ham license, for which you need
some electronics theory, or a Novice ham, for which you need less
electronics but do need to know morse code at 5wpm.

The other big ham band is the "HF" band.  This band operates using
frequencies that are similar to CB.  HF radios can communicate hundreds
or thousands of miles, mainly because you can use higher power than CB.
Installation is difficult, here the grounding is very important, and
expect to connect all the body panels of your vehicle together with
grounding braid to ensure a good ground!  HF radios are great for middle
of nowhere communication, but even less common than 2M radios for
offroaders.  To use an HF radio you’ll need a General class HAM license
(for all practical purposes) which requires more electronic theory and
morse code at 13wpm.

Hope this helps.

John
96 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:42:17 +0100
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Was springs, now painted spare parts

I know it should be better, but the fact is, that most replacement
spares, original or not, have a lousy paint finish, the onlyfunction of
which seems to be to prevent rusting in storage. I have not yet seen a
spare with a paint finish which will withstand the damage that it will
get there on the truck where it is inteded to be used.

Even a new frame or half frame has lousy finishing - the best is to
strip it, or at least prime it with a thinners soaked rag and thyen
paint it with a liberal coat or three of rust paint (or anti-rust
paint?) then a couple of coats of black enamel - use a good quality
marine gloss enamel, repaint it every year or two, and it will last a
long time - but never think that the stock paint job will last five
minutes.

Heck - these companies are in the business of selling parts which have
to wear out before they can sell you a new one - think about it...

Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail)	channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:36:10 -0600 (CST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: CB (AGAIN)

At 04:33 PM 10/30/97 -0800, you wrote:
>I posted a message recently inquiring about cb's.  I am wondering what
>some of you have had the most effective use out of.  I am wanting to get
>the best cb/antenna combo.  Do you guys have any suggestions?  I
>understand that the best distance I am going to be able to get is 5
>miles.  Is this correct?
 
I've got (and have generally always had) one of the better Radio Shack
models.  Works great for me, and comes with a built-in weather radio.

CB's are best for vehicles travelling in a convoy, or otherwise in close
proximity.  They're probably not much good for calling for help if you're in
the middle of nowhere.  (For that, you want HAM or a SatPhone.)

HAM on the other hand, is great for long distances, but is far less common
among off-roaders.  (Part of the reason being that decent CB's can be had
for less than $100 and they work fine for groups travelling together.)

I have had mostly the kind meant to be mounted in a vehicle, but I've also
had a handheld (stolen by my worthless brother) and a base station.  The
base station was really too big for mobile use (unless you're in a full-size
Chevy Van 8^).  

The handheld was really nice because you could use it in other vehicles,
while hiking, or at home.  I used it quite a bit when convoying with a
non-CB equipped friend.  But I think I would really only get a handheld as a
second CB.  I think the always-in-the-car factor is nice.  I can get in the
LR without having to worry about whether or not I've got my CB.  

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@ricochet.net                        that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:03:52 -0900 (AKST)
From: jurixsys@alaska.net (j sutcliffe)
Subject: Carbon Build Up  

I've got a 2.5 L petrol  in a Lightweight of uncertain vintage.  It has
dieseled since the day I got it.  But only after it has been warmed up.  The
diagnosis is carbon buildup. (if y'all think it's something else let me
know)  I have been
instructed to remedy the situation by pouring a small trickle of water down the
Weber carb while at high idle.  This will in effect steam clean the heads
and send a torrent of black smoke out the tail pipe which I will have to
trap in a bag or something because I don't want to pollute the air.  The
alternative is to takeapart the engine.... I don't think so.  Anyone have
any thoughts on "steam cleaning"?

------------------------------

From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Subject: RE: Carbon Build Up  
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:50:11 -0500

jurixsys@alaska.net[SMTP:jurixsys@alaska.net] asked about carbon,

That could indeed be your problem, or rather your symptom.
The H2O injection will remove most of the carbon buildup, but unless you
discover the cause, it will build up again.
In my case, dieseling was caused by a leaky Solex carb causing an overly
rich mixture.  The overly rich mixture in turn created the carbon
buildup, which would heat up to the point where at shutoff it was hot
enough to ignite the raw fuel the leaking Solex continued to dump down
the intake even after the fuel pump stopped pumping.  The residual
pressure, and there isn't much of it in a Series truck, caused the fuel
in the bowl to 'spill' down the venturi into the intake and into the
cylinders where the still glowing carbon would ignite the fuel and cause
the engine to run on, sometimes backwards !
No doubt you have an overly rich condition (leaking carb, main jet too
large, etc.) causing the carbon buildup.  Fix that, then remove the
carbon via water injection, or if more severe, remove and 'decoke' the
heads. (Scrape, grind or otherwise get the crap out...)  Good time to
re-work the head, stellite valves- hardened seats, valve seals etc. 
Good luck.

John Tackley
74-SIII 88
70-SIIA 88
Richmond, VA

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: Bulkhead
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:18:05 -0800

Last night with the help of two friends, I took the roof of the Rover
and pushed it into the garage.  The BMW now sits out in the rain :-)

After pulling off the wings and looking at the mess, I have decided to
pull out the bulkhead, have it stripped and have new footwells welded
in.

A few questions:
*	Is the 'Ready Strip' chemical stripping process safe for the bulkhead
assembly?  I have heard that it is not safe for aluminum alloy panels
and I am wondering if there are any such panels hidden in the bulkhead?
*	A new company opened up here in Victoria and is advertising 'Soda
Stripping'.  Does anyone have experience with this process?
*	Does anyone have any special tips or techniques for the removal and
re-assembly of the bulkhead?
*	Anything else that I should look at while it's out?

While it's out, I plan to strip and re-paint the front end of the frame.

Tx.

Paul Quin
1961 Series II 88
Victoria BC Canada

------------------------------

From: "Chris Weinbeck, Office Logic, Inc." <cmw@tiac.net>
Subject: Dormobile Rack
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:22:39 -0500

Hi TeriAnn

Glad you enjoyed yourself.  I do understand your sentiments about 
returning being the hard part!

>I am currently working with British Pacific to develop a Dormobile roof
>rack that is stronger that anything I know of that was commercially
>available for a Dormobile.

Kinda' like the one I've got partially assembled in the back of my truck 
no doubt ;-)
...
>the tubes will be rectangular 3/4 inch tubing.  Bungie cords should fit
>this fine.

Yup.
...
>One of the design goals is for the top of the rack to sit just a little
>higher than the lowered roof vent to protect the top.

That's sixteen inches tall on my roof.

>Another is for it to have the strength and stability for me to be able to
>stand on it with my large format camera to take pictures.

Yup.

>The rack will be galvanized.

Not for me, maybe plated but most likely epoxy-enameled.

Now for the kicker (for me anyway) Welding class $180, stock $20.
With plenty of other little jobs cut, ground, bent, (spindled, mutilated)
and welded in there too.

Just another encouragement for everyone out there to check out your
community education programs -big tools, big garages and big fun!

Chris

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Christopher Weinbeck       Office Logic, Inc.       V (508) 392-0288
  ______                              7 Littleton Road         F (508) 692-0897
  |__][_[_\__                     Westford, MA 01886     Computerization for
  |___\_|_]__]                                                           the healthcare
    (o)       (o)   '69 109" RHD OD 2.6 Dormobile        professional

               Ask me about East Coast Rover Co.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

From: Tony Treace <atreace@HASimons.com>
Subject: RE: Bulkhead
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:49:56 -0800

> A few questions:
> *	Is the 'Ready Strip' chemical stripping process safe for the
> bulkhead
> assembly?  I have heard that it is not safe for aluminum alloy panels
> and I am wondering if there are any such panels hidden in the
> bulkhead?

Any stripping solution should state on the label whether it is safe for
use on aluminum. All of the 'Home Depot' variety strippers I have used
were OK for aluminum. But I don't know of any aluminum panels in the
bulkhead anyway, there weren't any on my S2.

> *	A new company opened up here in Victoria and is advertising
> 'Soda
> Stripping'.  Does anyone have experience with this process?
> assembly?  I have heard that it is not safe for aluminum alloy panels
I've heard of companies that 'sandblast' using sodium bicarbonate,
ground walnut shells, etc. instead of sand. More gentle for softer
metals like aluminum, but maybe not required for a steel bulkhead.

> *	Does anyone have any special tips or techniques for the removal
> and
> re-assembly of the bulkhead?
> assembly?  I have heard that it is not safe for aluminum alloy panels
If you replace the A-posts and feet, use the frame mounting holes as a
jig to be sure everything fits after welding.

> *	Anything else that I should look at while it's out?
> and
A good sandblasting will reveal more corrosion than you wanted to know
about, but is the best way to do it right.

Good Luck,

Tony Treace
atreace@hasimons.com

1967 109 SW
1951 80 HT

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:46:01 -0800
From: Todd_Wilson@ccmail.columbia.com (Todd Wilson)
Subject: Re: Bulkhead

     Beware of bulkhead alignment during re-assembly. I just bought a 109 
     from a guy who replaced the frame. He didn't get the bulkhead true so 
     the front doors sagged a bit. 
     
     tew

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
> Subject: Bulkhead
> Author:  Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com> at Internet

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 37 lines)]
> 1961 Series II 88
> Victoria BC Canada

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: RE: Bulkhead
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:55:19 -0800

I should probably clarify what "Ready Strip" is...

I take the bulkhead to the Ready Strip place.  They dip the whole unit
in a tank of some kind of acid for a few hours.  It comes out clean and
bare!  All paint and rust is removed.  Stripping the entire bulkhead
will probably cost me about $50.

A freind of mine had the entire body of his BMW 3.0CS dippped (if you
know anything about these cars, you know how rusty they get) and was
very happy with the results...

Paul.

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Tony Treace [SMTP:atreace@HASimons.com]
>Sent:	Friday, October 31, 1997 11:50 AM
>To:	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject:	RE: Bulkhead

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 48 lines)]
>1967 109 SW
>1951 80 HT

------------------------------

From: Tony Treace <atreace@HASimons.com>
Subject: RE: Bulkhead
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:19:35 -0800

> I should probably clarify what "Ready Strip" is...
> I take the bulkhead to the Ready Strip place.  They dip the whole unit
> in a tank of some kind of acid for a few hours.  It comes out clean
> and
> bare!  All paint and rust is removed.  Stripping the entire bulkhead
> will probably cost me about $50.
> A freind of mine had the entire body of his BMW 3.0CS dippped (if you
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
> know anything about these cars, you know how rusty they get) and was
> very happy with the results...
I was warned to stay away from that type of total immersion stripping by
several friends that restore MGs and Jags. It removes paint very well,
but no matter how hard they try to rinse and neutralize parts after
dipping, they usually leave traces in nooks and crannies (like
bulkheads) that seep out later to spoil the new paint. Supposedly,
several very nice E-Type paint jobs were ruined this way. Besides, I
can't imagine that any chemical strip can economically remove rust any
better than a sandblaster.

Tony Treace
atreace@hasimons.com

1967 109 SW
1951 80 HT

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:06:11 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <david@math.earlham.edu>
Subject: putting on a roof.

I am about to put on a hard top and safari door on 88 IIA that, as far as
I know, has only every been a soft-top.  Is there anything non-obvious
that needs to be done?  I mean I just take off the canvas and hoops, bolt
the top on and mount the door, right?  Any tips on geting the door aligned
properly?  

Thanks,

David
--------
David_Scheidt@math.earlham.edu

yip yip yip yap yap yak yap yip *BANG*  -- no terrier

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:22:58 -0800
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Halloween

All the nasty critters are out tonight, so I thought I'd dress Pig up as 
a Fo*d or something equally scary, but I'm getting to old for that now I 
guess. Gotta park her a little further back for tonight, might end up 
with soap on da winda, imagine, soap on a Rover!

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: RE: putting on a roof.
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:26:01 -0800

Have you got all of the weather stripping rubber that goes between the
top and the body/windshield?

Paul.

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	David Scheidt [SMTP:david@math.earlham.edu]
>Sent:	Friday, October 31, 1997 1:06 PM
>To:	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject:	putting on a roof.

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 24 lines)]
>David_Scheidt@math.earlham.edu
>yip yip yip yap yap yak yap yip *BANG*  -- no terrier

------------------------------

From: "Tom Dixon" <tomd@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Rovering and Ham radio
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:59:47 +1300

Hello
While reading the rover mailing list I saw the mention of 2 mtr radio and
amateur radio. I was wondering how many  hams are on this mailing list and
if so we, could we plan a skid on h.f if possible.

Cheers.... Tom Dixon
ZL2UPG
79 series 3 lwb (in many pieces)
tomd@clear.net.nz

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:00:43 -0500
From: Jeffrey A Berg <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Subject: RE: CB (AGAIN)

Use of a VHF Marine Band radio in a car, or even from shore, is illegal
unless you have a special station license. If you have that license the
radio can only be used to transact "ships business." It's even illegal
(without the special  license) to use your handheld ashore to call out to
your boat, or to a water taxi, for a ride. The fine is pretty hefty if
you're caught--like US$10,000.

However, those new public band VHF radios, being marketed to skiiers and
backpackers, look like they'd be cool for a Rover.

RoverOn!

jab

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg   Purple Shark Media         Rowayton, CT
                  jeff@purpleshark.com
                   ==================
	Bimbo-limbo is where I've been...
	I'm looking for a smart woman in a real short skirt
	A smart woman who knows how to flirt
			--Jimmy Buffett, Smart Woman

------------------------------

From: n4ptk@InfoAve.Net
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:01:25 -0600
Subject: Re: Rovering and Ham radio

zl2upg de n4ptk

	I'm afraid that cellular telephones and the internet
will be the death of long distance skeds.  But, if you get
something going, let me know.

Larry
n4ptk
n4ptk@infoave.net

>Hello
>While reading the rover mailing list I saw the mention of 2 mtr radio and
>amateur radio. I was wondering how many  hams are on this mailing list and
>if so we, could we plan a skid on h.f if possible.
>Cheers.... Tom Dixon
>ZL2UPG
>79 series 3 lwb (in many pieces)
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
>79 series 3 lwb (in many pieces)
>tomd@clear.net.nz

------------------------------

From: Solihull <Solihull@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:59:50 EST
Subject: Re:  RE: SIII-  Mounting a radio

There is a provision to mount a radio in the parcel tray, just to the left of
the center three instrument possitions. Feel basck there and you'll know what
I mean. Seem like it makes a DIN spec hole. just right for a compact CB or
2meter.
Cheers!!
John Dillingham
No, Pansy's dash isn't cut. The radio lives in a rubbermaid square bucket with
some Wx proof speakers. plugs into merkin style lighter by a coily cord.
near Canton, GA
KF4NAS     LROA #1095
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD "Pansy" FS $7K obo
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project, well, OK, or a P6 or another SD1
Vintage Rover Service--Since 1994, just about a couple dozen satisfied
customers!!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:47:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Subject: Re: FW: genuine v. non-genuine springs

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Marks
>Sent:	Friday, October 31, 1997 9:17 AM
>To:	'lro@playground.sun.com'
>Subject:	RE: genuine v. non-genuine springs

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 15 lines)]
>the right (in a LHD) when no driver is in the vehicle. The idea behind it
>is obviously, when the drive is in the vehicle every thing is on the level.
"The Pig" is RHD and the springs were put on the correct side..... the beer
was drank AFTER the project.  I still must say that the "genuine springs"
are not the way to go if I were to do this again, and I probably will on
another vehicle.  The lean in the pig isn't really bad enough to bitch
about but it is bad enough that it pisses me off that I spent extra $$ to
get what I thought would be a better spring.  Live and learn.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh's Smallest, Biggest, Best, Worst, and Only Land Rover Club

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:02:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Subject: Re: Bulkhead

>Last night with the help of two friends, I took the roof of the Rover
>and pushed it into the garage.  The BMW now sits out in the rain :-)

Good man!! That's were the Beemer belongs

>After pulling off the wings and looking at the mess, I have decided to
>pull out the bulkhead, have it stripped and have new footwells welded
>in.
Be very careful with alignment....
>A few questions:
>*	Is the 'Ready Strip' chemical stripping
Don't even bother with any of those nasty chemical stripping compounds...
Find someone to sandblast the thing for you.  I had a guy at the local
monument(Headstone) place do it for me for $40 on his lunchbreak. It turned
out great and with no messy chemical goo everywhere.
>*	Does anyone have any special tips or techniques for the removal and
>re-assembly of the bulkhead?
I had no hidden surprises....for once.  It was very straight forward.
>Paul Quin
>1961 Series II 88
>Victoria BC Canada

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh's Smallest, Biggest, Best, Worst, and Only Land Rover Club

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:42:53 -0700
From: Rick Grant <rgrant@cadvision.com>
Subject: Re: FW: genuine v. non-genuine springs

At 06:47 PM 31/10/97 -0500, Russ Wilson, wrote
 The lean in the pig isn't really bad enough to bitch
>about but it is bad enough that it pisses me off that I spent extra $$ to
>get what I thought would be a better spring. 

So what's a guy to do?  Is there a spring sold by someone which is good
quality regardless of genuine or not, good price or not?

			Rick Grant

			1959, SII   "VORIZO"  

rgrant@cadvision.com	
www.cadvision.com/rgrant
Cobra Media Communications.  Calgary, Canada
Aboriginal and International Relief Issues

------------------------------

From: bobnsueb@maxinet.com (Bob and Sue Bernard)
Subject: overdrive
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:48:40 -0800

Hi,
Sorry Uncle Roger, I somehow forgot to mention that I suspect the thicker
overdrive could be a Toro.
I was hoping to find someone who could tell me an identifying feature of the
Toro O/D.
This thing looks so much like a Fairey from the top but holds more oil.
I've heard the Toro does hold more oil. But are they this much of a copy?

Bob B

------------------------------

From: bmc@syspac.com
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:06:22 -0700
Subject: SD1

> John Dillingham
> near Canton, GA
> KF4NAS     LROA #1095
> 73 s3 swb 25902676b DD "Pansy"
> 72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
> Looking for a P5 project, well, OK, or a P6 or another SD1
> Vintage Rover Service, since 1994, where we say:
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
> Land Rovers for Recreation!
> Land Rovers forever!! D.V.

I have SD1 Vitesse model 1985 vintage. if your interested.

Regards, Jon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:19:28 -0500
From: Dean Meyer <Dean.Meyer@internord.net>
Subject: Re: NLA Parts

I just ordered two new in the box front inner fenders from Craddock for
Kinabalu, my Series III. Their price is 82.63GBP. Our club is charging
$100CDN per foot in our 40' container for delivery, so that is about 64
cu ft (1' x 8' x8'). Weight is not an issue so this is always the time
to bring over the big stuff! Just for your interest a 20' container is
about $2,000 CDN and a 40' anywhere from $3,000 - $4,000CDN from England
to Montreal. Then we beat up the broker to give us a good deal. Takes
about a week to sail across the pond, stowaways notwithstanding.

Dean Meyer

1964 Morris Mini Minor Traveller "Wanna see my woody?" - (Having a big
snooze.)
1966 Austin-Healey 3000 MK III "The moneypit from Vegas" - (Now
sealed in an Andy Warhol time capsule and buried in the yard)
1967 Austin-Healey Sprite MK III "The big block" - (95 BHP Swiftune
Sports Tourer on the way from Longs Corner Farm!)
1974 Land Rover Series III 88" "Kinabalu" - (Major bolting together
about to begin next week)

NADdMD@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 97-10-28 14:00:08 EST, you write:
> << Hi Nate,
>  How did you arrange to have the fender (wing) skins shipped over
> here?
>  I'll be looking at the same purchase in the not to distant future (I
>  hope)

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 23 lines)]
>  (Chris' estimate of 10X weight is probably about right).
> Nate

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:03:56 -0800
From: Todd_Wilson@ccmail.columbia.com (Todd Wilson)
Subject: Oil Injectors

     
     While rebuilding the engine (2.5 diesel) I broke two of the Bolts that 
     hold the diesel injectors. 
     
     question 1: are these the same item as on the 2.25 diesel?
     
     question 2: Does anyone on the list that's in the portland oregon area 
     have a couple of spare?
     
     thanks
     todd
     
     Ps reply directly or by phone 503-236-5835.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:01:35 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: addendum to long trip report

Below are parts of a reply I sent to someone.  I thought I would like to
share it with the rest of you.

It covers:

- My fun in Death Valley without engine mounts
- Weather along the trip, esp the Canyonlands storm
- National park campgrounds in the fall.

  I was hoping to end the trip by heading up 395, hitting the White
mountains where the oldest bristle cone pines are, lake mono and yosemitie.
But on my second day in Death Valley,the lower bolt holding the right
engine mount bracket to the engine fell out (The factory used lock tabs,
mine had lock washers).  Torque from rock & wash crawling caused the
bracket to pivit on the upper bolt (which was partially unscrewed) shearing
the right engine mount droping the right side of the engine almost 2 inches
and about an inch to the right.  This of course sheared the left engine
mount.  The fan against the shroud let me
 know about this.  The mounts themselves had been carefully inspected before
the trip.  Since they had been replaced only a couple few years ago, they
 were is good shape before the bracket pivited.  As good luck has it. the
 transmission mounts (also replaced at the same time) were holding OK, and I
 had just finished the rough stuff and was entering the relativly smooth
 aluvial fan part of the trail that led down to the dirt road that runs
 along the lower West side of the valley and to the main road a few miles
 above the South park exit.

 I removed the lower screws around the fan shroud, bent it lower a bit &
 pried it twords the engine, away from the fan, wedging it out with stick
 spacers. Then I proceeded v - e - r - y slowly. I stopped frequently to
 shovel in a drop, make ramps and move rocks.  I spent the night near the
 end of the canyon road, near the West road.  Sunday, I crept out to
 pavement in the afternoon then headed south out the park twords BP.  I
 aired up at the first town I got to and kept going.  I worked my way down
 to Interstate #15 and had to air down again because the road was too bumpy
 and kept bouncing the engine around.  Its the first time I ever aired down
for an interstate freeway.

 During the trip I had to frequently
 move the shrouding around and readjust the length of the accelerator
 linkage going to the carb. It just seemed like the engine was shifting
 right & left & a little up & down at every bump. My idle went everywhere to
 where it should be to about 3500 RPM depending on where the engine shifted
 next.

 My first goal was to get the car out of the canyon and to a place where I
 could call for help.  That done, my second goal was to get to a place close
 enough to a UPS station that they would honour red label shipping (Death
 vally isn't such a place).  That done, my next goal was to get the car
 withing 100 miles of BP so I could use my AAA 100 mile tow.  That
 accomplished, I said that in 19 years of owning the Green Rover she as
 always gotten me home & I can't give up on her yet.  So Monday morning I
 pulled into BP's parking lot after having readjusted the wood shims about a
 block away.  They provided moral support, a jack that would lift the engine
 & new engine mounts.  So at the end of the day, I was back on the road with
 some help from my friends, new motor mounts in the front and a new pair in
 the car to replace the mounts under the transmission that kept the faith &
 the engine from going forward.  I arrived home a little before noon
 Tuesday.

>  I hope you enjoyed the weather.

 Well lets see.  You remember all the drizzling we got going up to Portland?
 I had percipitation almost 3 days in every four throughout Canada,
 Montana, Wyoming and my first week  or so in Utah.  I was wondering why
 there wasn't redwood forests in the high desert.

 On my first morning in
 Arches, I found myself doing morning fog photography the day after a rain.
 My camp site neighbor, who was from San Francisco, kept feeling that he
 should be hearing fog horns.   I was walking around ponds everywhere I
 walked  it seemed.  I got into some serious wet clay on the Oregon trail.
 I ended up hitting a section of dirt road in Monument valley that put a
 wave over the top of the car leaving mud on the top windows (OK so I was
 passing a jeep that was creaping around the high edge of the road trying
 not to get its feet wet and was showing them how it could be done in a real
 4X4).  I was able to "celibrate" the first snow of the season at Jasper,
 Banff, Glacier, and Yellow Stone parks.  I got to "enjoy" morning lows in
 the low 20s in Banff, Glacier, Yellowstone (One morning I was treated to
 high teen temperatures there), Brice and Monument Valley.

Of course now horizontal rain in the canyon at Yellowstone did keep me from
 photographing the falls.

 My favourate storm of the trip was along the white rim trail in Canyonlands.
 It was late afternoon and the clouds had been getting darker and darker.
 There was increasing thunder.  I noticed several cars going by heading out
 but didn't think about it.  As I got back into the car from taking a
 picture I noticed that uptrail was no longer visable. Suddenly I was hit by
 a dust storm. Instantly the inside of my freshly resealed car was very
 thick with flying dust.  I shut my engine off immediatly.  The Rover was
 facing directly into a dust storm that was shaking her quite a bit.
 Visibility was zero. About five or six minutes into this the dust was
 replaced by a flood of water then sleet being pushed by a heavy wind.  The
 wipers had no visible clearing effect.  After about 20 minutes of this the
 storm quieted into what I think of as a major lightning storm with high
 winds. I was able to see again... kinda.  So I fired up the engine and
 crept along the trail looking for a sheltered space to call it a night.  I
 found a spot a little ways away from the edge of the canyon that had a hill
 a few times higher than the Rover that I could tuck up against.  I put on
 the rain gear which was always sitting ready in the front.  I removed the
 CB antenna & poped the top.  During the search of a sheltered spot, I saw
 instant rivers appear throwing unbelievable volumes of water over the rim
 of the canyon.  I snuggled into my sheltered spot on high ground next to a
 higher upwind hill that was much lower then the near surrounding mountains
 about a safe as I can be.  Of course during the night as I was trying to
 sleep with lightning flashing around, the car rocking from the wind and the
 noise of heavy rain and thunder, my mind started thinking of the canyon rim
 being only feet away and the wind knocking the car over on her side and
 down the canyon to the floor way down below (I don't do drop offs well).
 Morning dawned without a cloud around, my car where I parked her about 50
 feet away from the rim, and the rivers of water down to nothing.  Except
 for the duration of the storm I was impressed with its violence.  It was
 that day a ranger cought up with me then escorted me out of the park.  Dogs
 are not allowed inside a car on the dirt roads of Canyonlands.

 Later, I got cought in a heavy hail storm heading to Monument Valley from
 Flagstaff.  The wipers had the job of trying to remove lots of hale off a
 dry windscreen.  A nylon gear broke on the drivers side wiper motor, and I
 spent the last half hour of the storm moving the wiper by hand.  Strangely
 enough, now that it had done its damage to the Green Rover, that was the
 last rain/snow/hail I encountered on the trip.

 I keep saying there is a Goddess that watches out for fools and innocents
 who makes an occupation of watching out for me.

>  I'm sure that places were deserted

 The park services have a cure for lonelyness.  They close camp grounds.
 Yellowstone had the most closed.  My first day there I couldn't find an
 open campground that wasn't full.  I ended up hiding from the rangers in a
 closed parking lot along with a few other people.  On my second day, I
 stopped before noon at a ranger station to be told that the nearest camp
 grpund that was not full was tword the South end of the park over 80 miles
 away by road.  On my last day there I actually grabbed the last open camp
 site in 50 miles.  Part of the site numbers were wiped out so none of the
 other people looking for it recognized it.  Arches was filling by 9:AM each
 day.  After one night I moved into Moab for a week.

 On the other hand one of my best nights was spend in Arches.  late in the
 afternoon after returning from the walk to the delicate arch, I noticed
 that there was a trail on the map going right out of the parking lot for
 the view of the Arch.  A place called Cache canyon trail.  I headed on out
 up the trail that was mostly in a recently dry wash.  A half mile later
 there was only one set of tyres in front of me, or two cars with the same
 tyres & width.  A bit later I came across the obstical that stopped the
 last car.  there was a rock ridge going across the wash about two feet
 high.  It was vertical except for a small part along one side that could be
 used as a ramp for part of one wheel... if ou were very carefull.  The
 previous person tried that but couldn't get the other wheel to climb the
 vertical surface.  He left a nice thick patch of rubber on the vertical
 surface.  I looked at it a bit then started hauling rocks to make a ramp.
 Then I started up.  This was one time I wanted a spotter.  The right side
 that was already there was a bit tricky.  If you were a little too far to
 the left your wheel would fall off the side putting the car's weight on the
 freewheel hub then the lower wing.  If you were too far to the right,  the
 side of your tyre will get wedged against a rock and there would be minimal
 clearence for the diff.  I made it mostly up and hung with the front two
 tyres turning in loose sand, one rear tyre turning, one rear tyre wedged
 and the Salisbury dragging on the rock.  I got out the high lift, jacked up
 the right rear until the car was about level and improved opon my ramp. The
 mod I made on the rear frame to allow rear corner jacking saved the day.  I
 added big rocks under the wheel and built the ramp bigger.  Then I drove
 the rest of the way up.  This was followed by a diagonal climb out of the
 wash.  Since night was coming I was ready to pop the top, but not in a wash
 when there has been frequent rains.  The lower rut of the trail had been
 washed lower so the diagonal slope looked to be too close to the car's tip
 over angle to be comfortable, so I sat about moving more big rocks again to
 build up that side of the trail.  Afterwards I packed in dirt around the
 rocks to help stabilize the new improved trail with rerouted drainage.  I
 pulled up and up to a rise, let the dog out, poped the top and had a salad,
 broiled chicken and steamed asparigus for dinner.  I was in a little bowl
 valley where there was no sight or sound of people.  There was protection
 from the wind and I was well above the wash.  After all the evening
 physical work it was very nice to rest after dinner with a hot cup of tea
 and a good book.  I was very content.

 I think half the population of Germany were in the parks.  I quickly got to
 the point where I assumed people did not speak English until I heard them
 talk.  At a ranger station in Death Valley My mostly forgotten freshman
 high school French saved a lost French couple who were lost and looking
for Las Vegas from an irate Ranger who was trying to get a $10 park use fee
out of them.

 > and as long as you didn't freeze, that would be OK.

 I didn't freeze, but a heater in the back for when the car is stopped is
 WAY high on my priorities right behind working wipers and replacing the
 transmission mounts.

 Lets say the trip was interesting, indian summer was nonexistant away from
 the coast, I can't figure out why so many people managed to die crossing
 the deserts when there are so many pools and streams there.  I want to do
 it again. I now have lock tabs on the bolts holding down my right engine
 mount brackets.  But I should go through the car & check the other bolts
 first.

TeriAnn Wakeman            For personal mail, please start subject line
Santa Cruz California      with TW.  I belong to 4 high volume mail lists
twakeman@scruznet.com      and do not read a lot of threads..Thanks

"The box said 'Requires Windows 95, or better.' So I bought a Macintosh."

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 06:34:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Rovering and Ham radio

Hi - N1TWY checking in...

Love to do an HF sked with you, but my present license (and equipment
levels) preclude it.....

          Al Richer

------------------------------

From: MRogers315@aol.com
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 06:37:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: A Drive in a Freelander (long)

Yes, I have driven a Freelander, and a very nice CAR it is. It is NOT a mud
plugger, it is NOT a rock crawler, and it is most certainly NOT a truck. It
IS however an excellent medium sized estate car with 4wd.

The model I drove was a 5 door long wheelbase with the 1.8 ltr. petrol engine
First impression is made by the height of the vehicle, it's not as low as a
modern saloon, nor as high as most 4wd vehicles and it is a comfortable
height to slip into. Open the bonnet (hood) and the engine is way down low
with plenty of room for something bigger. When Chris from RPI took a look he
was sure he could fit a V8 in there with ease!!!. Look to the rear and the
load space is small, with all the seats upright there is very little space
for luggage. But it does look good.

Getting in stumped me initially as it has a remote locking system that
requires one press of the button on the keying to unlock the driver's door
but two presses to unlock all the other doors. On sliding into the drivers
seat my first impression was of how comfortable it was and how easily the
driving position accommodated my 6ft 1in frame. The seat was simple to adjust
and went back further than I needed. Control layout was simple and clear,
only one switch was unclear and that turned out to be for the electric
tailgate window. The Hill Descent system leaps out at you due to its bright
Yellow switch on the gearlever.

Starting was straightforward and on pulling away smooth, despite my not being
used to the clutch, which was Very light. Gearchange was as slick as you
would expect of a modern car. First gear however was much lower ratio than
expected and I immediately changed to second. Steering however was far too
light for my taste seeming over powered and giving very little feedback.

My drive was short (only about 20 minuets) firstly a lap around the large
flat grass area of Bircham Newton. On grass it performed faultlessly with no
noticeable wheelspin even under heavy acceleration, and cornering smooth and
controlled. On tarmac it was just as I had expected, handling like any modern
car, but again that steering was just too light for my comfort.

However the off road course drive was disappointing. Mainly because the
guardian of the Freelander was under instruction not to mess it up as
photographs were required for publication, and he was answerable for any
damage. Anyway with all this in mind I persuaded him to let me try it off
road.

No sooner had we ventured onto the very first part of the course than loud
scraping noises were to be heard from underneath. This had us both worried as
we had already commented on the exhaust system being very low, and had
visions of the "cat" being battered to destruction. So a more cautious route
was taken for a short exit. My route took us down one short drop, which
Freelander handled with comfortable ease and up a climb not possible in my
own estate car. The 4wd system kept us rolling at all times with no
hesitation at all. An inspection of the underside on arriving back on the
flat revealed no marks to the exhaust at all. The only signs of contact with
the ground was on the skid plate under the engine.

 This short excursion over loose earth inspired a lot of confidence that
perhaps Land Rover have a winning combination here. Not for serious off
roaders (after all we have 90' 110' and Discovery for that) but for those who
demand an everyday car with sensible fuel consumption and road manners, but
who have a requirement for off road ability. Freelander should get you much
further/safer in snow and ice conditions on country roads. Getting on and off
wet grass at rural shows and events should present no problems. Access for
construction site and farm visitors would be well within its ability. Not
forgetting of course that Land Rover now have an entry level 4wd SUV to
compete with all the Japanese imports, and that is built here in the UK.

Finally I have a feeling that with the right reliability and a more powerful
engine Freelander will make one hell of a rally car!.

Mike Rogers

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Photos & text Copyright 1990-2011 Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved. Digest Messages Copyright 1990-2011 by the original poster or/and Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved.