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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 07:29:10 EDT
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Landy, truck, car, etc.

The army tend to call them wagons.  They actually tend to call most
things which don't fire anything, fart or speak a wagon though.

Wagon does seem to summarise the ride quality of a leaf sprung thingy
quite well!

Have fun, Steve

Steve Reddock, Xyratex        |  "NEVER QUESTION AN
Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450      |   ENGINEER'S OPINION,
IBMMAIL (GBXYR96P)            |   YOU THUNDERING MORON !"
Steve_Reddock@uk.xyratex.com  |     - Dogbert 1996

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 07:36:52 -0100
From: eheite@dmv.com (Ned Heite)
Subject: What you call it

In  the United States the definition of a "truck" can be critical. My IIA
was built in 1969, just after the clean-air rules for passenger cars were
imposed. It should, under automobile rules, be subject to certain odious
clean-air requirements. However, the Delaware Department of Public Safety
classifies all Land Rovers as "trucks," and therefore subject to much
milder restrictions. So I can fail the emissions test for cars but pass
through because there is no visible smoke. Trucks of that vintage are
failed only if there is visible smoke. Before I fixed the PCV valve
diaphragm, I didn't even pass the smoke test.

Even though the inspection side of Public Safety says I am driving a truck,
the licensing side of the same department says that I am driving a station
wagon. So I have a "PC" tag that allows me to drive on cars-only roads like
the Garden State Parkway.

So my Land Rover is a truck.

Regards,

Ned Heite
P O Box 53
Camden, Delaware 19934 USA
Contract Archaeologist and town crank

   

------------------------------

From: LilRed90@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 07:32:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Winch on a D90?

In regards to using the stock bumber, I don't think there is much room to
install the winch.  I would definetly recommend the ARB winch bumper.  This
is a full frame mounted bumper and brush guard.  It will take either the
Superwinch (Husky or S9), or the Warn.  This bumper has protected my D90 from
a 5th wheel trailer that took a sharp corner totally ripping out a 3 foot by
2 foot hole in the trailer and only putting a scratch on my bumper.  I have
been saved with this bumper many times on the trail as well.

As far as which winch to go with, that is personal preference.  One thing to
remember is that the Warn 9000xi has a stall weight of 9000 pounds and the
Superwinch 9000 lb. winch has a  working load of 9000 pounds and a stall
weight of around 10000 to 12000 pounds.  I personally run the Warn 9000 on my
D90 with the ARB Bull Bar.  When looking for a winch.  You want to get a
winch with 1 and 1/2 times the gross vehicle weight.  This means that a 9000
lb. winch is best suited for the D90.  Any questions please feel free to
E-mail.

Gus Hendricks
lil red 90@AOL.com
Rover On.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 07:47:34 -0500
From: "Benjamin G. Newman,MD" <medone@iag.net>
Subject: Bill Caloccia's trip to Orlando

Bill
Series LR are not big in this area.However we have some good off 
roads.
For off road info call my friend Carl Dienst@407-366-6391
Feel free to contact me for any help about the area.
Have a nice staY.
Benjamin G. Newman,MD
1966 109 NADA wagon
1966 88 pick up truck
1962 ser 111 88 3dr(Warwick conversion)
all of the above have Turner 2.5l petrol re-built eng.
1995 4.0 RR

407=841-4040(office)
407-446-0666(power number)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 05:04:07 -0700
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: pink  Panther in Boston

At 11:30 PM 7/29/96 -0400, Jim Pappas wrote:

>The Pink Panther (just arrived ex-Dunsfold Museum) will eventually be on =
>semi-permanent display at Land Rover Metro West starting this fall. All =
>LROs and enthusiasts are cordially welcome to stop by and say hello and =
>see it if and when in the Boston area.

>cheers
>Jim

So Jim,

I will be in Boston all next week to conduct a test lab in conjunction with
MacWorld.  Is there any chance I can get a peek (and take a photo or two)
of your Pink Panther?  I will be at the Omni Parker House and carless.  Is
your dealership in hiking distance from the Hotel?

I didn't see one of these at billing last week

Take care

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 08:34:38 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Cool it!!

Hey all. 

I brought two radiators over to a local shop to see if they could rod them out 
or whatever it is that they do. the man there said that they were both rotten 
and couldn't be fixed, that if anything I would need a new core. He claims there
is something called a "VT" core which is used in racing and will have twice the 
efficiency of the regular core. I'm waiting to hear back on it it but I believe 
it will be way expensive. Does anybody know what type of core was used on these 
things?. I was told it was "6 row continuous flat fin" by one of the LR parts 
houses but the guy says its 4 row. One is a late IIa rad the other is a SIII.
They are basically the same but he says there's a slight difference in the core.
Does anybody know anything about this "VT" core or have any experience with 
other types of cores?. 

My assumption here is that I'm going to just buy a new rad.

Thank You All

Dave "I like cool engines" B.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 05:37:13 -0700
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Military LR

At 11:22 AM 7/30/96 +0200, philippe wrote:
>Hi,
>I'm already a few days back from Billing
;
>Philippe Carchon
>Ghent, Belgium
>'81 Lightweight (FFR)
;
Phillippe

I'm glad to see that you made it back OK.  While I was breaking camp you
seemed to be kind of at odds on how you were going to get back.  I was
hoping you would find some of the Belgium contengent and hitch a ride back
in one of their Land Rovers.

I was happy to meet you  but didn't have enough time for a good chat Sat
night or Sunday when I was packing and hitching my ride out with Richard
Brownlee.

I doubt if I will be able to make it next year, but you can bet that if I
can I will.  Billing is just too amazing to miss!

Take care & maybe I'll see your lightweight there sometime.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:30:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Must be a slow news day...

On Mon, 29 Jul 1996, Adams, Bill wrote:

> How on earth did we end up with so much doofy crosstalk about railroad 
> ties and stuff. Are we really that bored today?

	Because the older passenger trains up here used to have amazing
	bar cars...  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 08:33:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: NJ LR dealer plug

On Sun, 28 Jul 1996, Jeff & Laura Kessler wrote:
> I was in our GMC this trip, need some " My other vehicle is a ..." bumper
> stickers.

craddocks has such a bumper sticker -- it says something like
"...my other vehicle is a landie..."  it has a horrible font
but i like the message.  i bought two.  i don't know exactly
how to make best use of it (a rr is a landie, isn't it...)

Sincerely,

Ray Harder 
61 siia 88
87 rr

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 9:44:01 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Really BIG fly trap

To those of you who wish to repaint your wagon (get it, 'Paint Your 
Wagon'; the only movie where Clint Eastwood sings?....oh well...) without 
the expense and trouble of paying professionals to do it, here's a way 
that gives very good results. 
I just painted a 32 foot sailboat using this method and it looks as 
though it has been professionally sprayed.
First of all choose a very good quality paint. I used good old Z-Spar 
Solid White Gloss. This stuff is available at marine suppliers in colors 
that very closely match those of Rovers. Since we're dealing with solid 
colors and not metallics, marine grade polyurethane works great for this 
application. Addition of a small amount of brushing agent (Brush Eze and 
the like) helps the paint lay out flat. 
Use top quality >foam< rollers. Those with the tightest bubbles work 
best. These come in a lot of sizes and diameters, so use several 
different ones for all the nooks and crannies.
Preparation is the key to a good finish, and it's where they really nail 
you on labor charges. By using a two-part self etching primer applied in 
two to three coats and wet sanded with 220 between each you'll get a 
great base for topcoating. By building a layer of primer and wet sanding, 
small imperfections are removed.
For the top coats, wet your roller thoroughly and roll out as much area 
as possible without reloading. You'll get thousands of tiny bubbles in 
the paint on the first pass, but don't fret, you'll take care of that. 
Continue to roll over the area you just covered until the paint is evenly 
spread and the roller begins to 'dry'. You'll notice the bubbles are 
beginning to reduce and the paint is getting flatter and flatter. Finish 
the area by lightly rolling the empty roller over the surface until all 
the bubbles are gone and the surface is very flat.
Keep a wet edge by starting at one end and working toward the other.
Allow this layer to dry thoroughly and wet sand it with 400 paper before 
the next coat.
Apply at least three coats so that you will have enough paint built up 
for final sanding and polishing. The last coat should be lightly wet 
sanded with 600 paper.
The last step is to buff the finish with a buffer pad and polishing 
compound, which you can get in liquid form from auto paint suppliers. 
Wait a week or so to do this so the paint is quite hard. 
If you are careful and take your time, your results should be very 
rewarding. The main advantage other than cost, is that you have the truck 
to use duing this process. Also, you control the quality and final 
product.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:39:29 -0700
From: John Karlsson <karlsson@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: Military LR

philippe wrote:
 
> BTW: the series cars were not waving or flashing lights to each other at
> Billing...

That must mean that Land Rovers have better defrosters (oops!  demisters) over there.

John Karlsson
Hope Valley, RI

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:43:19 -0700
From: John Karlsson <karlsson@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: Landy, truck, car, etc.

Steve Reddock wrote:
 
> The army tend to call them wagons.  They actually tend to call most
> things which don't fire anything, fart or speak a wagon though.

But Land Rovers fart.  

John Karlsson
Hope Valley, RI

------------------------------

From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 08:26:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Diesel-trouble / truck--stop!

> >And what are the "right colors"?
> If we're going to be parochial,Bronze Green.The working Land Rover colour.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> ..And a judicious use of Limestone.The *old* Limestone,of course.
> Mike Rooth

Hey, what about Red? Or Poppy Red as I've heard it referred?

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: Really BIG fly trap
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 14:59:25 BST

I'm on the Carnivorous Plant Listserver too, and "Really Big Fly Trap"
implies something else...    :-)

> I just painted a 32 foot sailboat using this method and it looks as 
> though it has been professionally sprayed.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> the like) helps the paint lay out flat. 
> Use top quality >foam< rollers. Those with the tightest bubbles work 

etc.

Or, there's my method!
With a vehicle in NATO green (a nice dusty colour), such things don't really 
matter. Just get a random cheap brush (be careful with lost bristles),
and brush it on. Use a suitable primer on the bare metal, but if there's
good solid paint - just add on top (like the previous owner and the Army!).
Those imperfections in the paintwork - that's character, that is!!  :-)

The only thing is, that however hard to mix/stir the new paint, it will never
exactly match the original. Also the new stuff seems to subtly change colour
relative to the old, when in the rain - a very strange effect!
(ie. its a good idea to do complete panels, rather than "touching up"!)

To be honest, I'm not that keen on NATO Green, and I'll do a "proper" job if
I change colour.

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:00:02 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Diesel-trouble / truck--stop!

>> >And what are the "right colors"?
>> If we're going to be parochial,Bronze Green.The working Land Rover colour.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>Hey, what about Red? Or Poppy Red as I've heard it referred?
>Tim
Well,I *said* I was going to be parochial.Poppy Red not available
in the land of its birth:-)
Mike

------------------------------

From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 08:42:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Diesel-trouble / truck--stop!

>Well,I *said* I was going to be parochial.Poppy Red not available
>in the land of its birth:-)

Seriously? Red was an export-only color (colour)? Why is that - did they look
to much like emergency vehicles or something? That explains why I can't get
'genuine' touch up spray paint in Poppy...

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 10:24:56 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: Re: Cool it!!

>Hey all.
>I brought two radiators over to a local shop...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>Thank You All
>Dave "I like cool engines" B.

        Dave, having a quality radiator shop re core YOUR radiator IS
getting a new one. The only thing they will leave is the top and bottom
tank. Absolutely NO need to buy a new one unless the tanks are trashed, as
in been in an accident or some other major mess up. When we have radiators
re cored it costs around 200 to 250 dollars, and they are new again, with
all new guts. You can also have them upgrade the old tanks with new
technology, go from 4 core to 6, or something. Sounds like this radiator
shop might have rubbed you the wrong way, but a good radaitor shop that
doesn't mind custom work can be very helpful, we'd be screwed without ours!
They make radiators for us that convert SIIA radiators into units that can
handle V8's etc.
        The difference in the 2 types of radiators is the placement of the
hoses, but they can be interchanged if you buy the proper hoses.

        Hope it helps.
        See ya!

From: Mike Smith
East Coast Rover Co.                    207.594.8086
21 Tolman Road  *Rt. 90*                207.594.8120 fax
Warren, Maine 04864                     ecrover@midcoast.com
    Land Rover Service, Sales, Restoration, and More
        Series Coil Chassis Specialists

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 30 Jul 96 10:33:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Cool it!!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 10:46:23 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Popy Red touch up paint...

>>>>That explains why I can't get
'genuine' touch up spray paint in Poppy...

Genuine touch up paint a rip off anyway. Very small cans for more than the price
of a regular can o'krylon. Here's a number for a company that sells any paint in
spray cans. You just give them the paint code...

Paint

    Spray Can, 16 oz.   Tower Paint, 800-779-6520, provide paint code for custom
mix

Poppy red....Dupont 38506

more details at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/ROVER/PAINT.HTM

Cheers

Dave "Yes I can surf" B.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:47:48 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Diesel-trouble / truck--stop!

>Seriously? Red was an export-only color (colour)? Why is that - did they look
>to much like emergency vehicles or something? That explains why I can't get
>'genuine' touch up spray paint in Poppy...

Far as I know...Dont forget the things were sold as primarily farming/
contractors vehicles,and you know how "conservative"(read miserable
buggers) farmers are.I'd say the majority were bronze green,because
the S1 was that colour and farmers dont change easily,next Marine Blue.
The other colours are few and far between,the rarest for a bet being
the two greys and Sand.I doubt whether the English would have considered
a Land Rover in Red at all,to be honest.
That said,the Red must have been a standard BMC(wash yer mouth out)
colour.
Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 10:42:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Beverley Museum of Army Transport

On Tue, 30 Jul 1996, Richard Marsden wrote:

> Tracing British MoD Vehicles
> This was posted to UK-LRO a few months ago. Might be worth adding to an FAQ?

	Being added under chassis numbering with the information for getting
	build information from Land Rover itself.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:03:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: steve cross <scross@pop.erols.com>
Subject: factory bulletins

Please let me know how i can obtain the factory bulletins on '93 Range Rover
LWB. 

Thanks
Steve

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 11:03:59 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Really BIG fly trap

Richard Marsden says:
 Just get a random cheap brush (be careful with lost bristles),
and brush it on. Use a suitable primer on the bare metal, but if there's
good solid paint - just add on top (like the previous owner and the 
Army!).
Those imperfections in the paintwork - that's character, that is!!  :-)

That's how I did it when I was in the Army. Often we'd pour it right out 
of the can onto the vehicle and mop it around with a rag. 
Not too smooth but after one trip through the dusty motor pool, the 'new' 
paint was indistinguishable. Everything got painted that way...sledge 
hammers, picks, shovels, microwave antennas...when inspection time came 
'round it was easier and better to paint 'em than to wash 'em.
Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator

------------------------------

From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 10:09:56 -0500
Subject: lr colours

>The other colours are few and far between,the rarest for a bet being
>the two greys and Sand.I doubt whether the English would have considered
>a Land Rover in Red at all,to be honest.

Hmmm. I know that red would not have been *my* first choice of color for my
88. I like the earthy colors, sand, limestone, better. I thought the zebra-
stripes of the old Corgi 107 was pretty cool, though. :-)

There were other colors, too. The page that I got from Solihull with my
serno (see the rover web pages on production data) list a bunch that went
to greece in Orange. Uck! Mine was the only red one on the page...

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 13:08:50 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: Cool it!!

>about re-coring radiators:
>        Dave, having a quality radiator shop re core YOUR radiator IS
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>it seems to be more trouble than it's worth.
>     aj"Just went through this exercise"r

Dear All...

    Just depends on how you look at things. We just had a client buy a NEW
2.25 petrol engine. Nothing was wrong with his old engine, and a quality
rebuild could have meant that it was *new*. But no amount of talk could
make him realize that things like the Turner engine is a rebuilt unit, and
that only his block casting, the head casting, and crank etc. would remain
old, the rest would be new parts, thus giving him a high end rebuild. So
some people always have to go for *new* parts as suppiled from a *Rover*
place. Same thing applies to radiators, if you want that thing of *new*
under your bonnet go for the new unit.
        We get better service from our radiator shop making new units for
us, and they can do all kinds of custom tricks and stand behind the work. I
like those units better than some supposedly OEM units that some parts
companies sell, made in a third world country. I know where and how it was
made with quality, and it saves us money to boot. RN price is around 350
for the same radiator, we pay 200ish. We do about one radiator every month
or so, and three years later, all are still *cooling it* very nicely. So
for us a custom re core works much better, all depends on how you look at
things, from an engineering stand point... or from a I want new stand
point. The two radiators, if treated the same, have exactly the same life
span.

        See ya!

From: Mike Smith
East Coast Rover Co.                    207.594.8086
21 Tolman Road  *Rt. 90*                207.594.8120 fax
Warren, Maine 04864                     ecrover@midcoast.com
    Land Rover Service, Sales, Restoration, and More
        Series Coil Chassis Specialists

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 13:15:53 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Cool it!!...yeah,well...

Here's the difference Mike, you are a specialty shop that deals with the 
same vendor over and over, so of course you get good quality at a fair 
price.
As individuals, we can't afford to do a lot of shopping around so we must 
roll the dice and hope for the best when we go to these shops. It is 
often a safer bet to buy 'new', be it NOS, remanufactured or what have 
you, than to risk shoddy work and less than satisfactory results.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:06:23 -0700
From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Re: Cool it!!...yeah,well...

Bill Adams said:

>As individuals, we can't afford to do a lot of shopping around so we must 
>roll the dice and hope for the best when we go to these shops. It is 
>often a safer bet to buy 'new', be it NOS, remanufactured or what have 
>you, than to risk shoddy work and less than satisfactory results.

I agree.  I recently looked into having one recored at the reputable local
shop and found that it was iffy as to whether or not he knew what would be
available in the way of cores to fit my tanks.  Sounded as if he'd do a very
good job, possibly making a stronger and more efficient radiator than stock.
But he was necessarily vague on price and clearly higher than what I'd have
to pay for a new non-genuine one from British Pacific.  So I went with the
new one from BP and have been very happy with it.  If I'd have had to buy
from RN I'd have gone with the local recore as it would have been cheaper
and probably better.

Cheers,

Granville "Granny" Pool
Redwood Valley, CA USA
'73 SIII 88 (the Snark)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 14:52:37 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: I'm cool, I'm cool...

Thanks for all the replies, and helpful advice. I've weighed all the factors, 
i.e. prices, availability, origin, warranty, etc.:

Well, I made up my mind to try out the local chap here. He's got good references
and can do the exact same core for 242 plus tax. Plus the added bonus of a 20 
year warranty. Can't beat that with a stick, if you ask me. 

I'll let the list know how it works out. I can give the name of the shop to any 
local folks who are interested.

Dave "I support small environmentally unsound businesses" B.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:55:19 +0200
From: Defender@belgonet.be (Luc Rokegem)
Subject: Re: Military LR

Would be a big problem for waving or flashing lights, with almost 2000
Landies on the site !  The thing that me made unhappy, was that due my
travel off more than 1000 miles through, England very little Landies
waved ; I think almost nobody did altough I saw more than 70 Series and
defenders.  I leave the Discovery's and the Range-Rovers outside because
here in Belgium we don't wave at them eather.  I can't say that nobody
did see my 110, because it's a fully equipped one ; just like the Camel-
Thropy ones, exept the colour. (mine is dark blue). I just think that
probably the real Land-Rover owners were at Billings !

Don't give up !
 

            _______________    Luc Rokegem
           //   |          |   St-Pauwels (Belgie)
    ______//_ _ |          |#  defender@belgonet.be
    |   __            __   |#  http://www.belgonet.be/~bn000165/index.html
    |__/  \__________/  \__|  
       \__/          \__/      lawyers and Land-Rovers must be well greased

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:24:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Military LR

On Tue, 30 Jul 1996, Luc Rokegem wrote:

> Would be a big problem for waving or flashing lights, with almost 2000
> Landies on the site !  The thing that me made unhappy, was that due my
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> Thropy ones, exept the colour. (mine is dark blue). I just think that
> probably the real Land-Rover owners were at Billings !

I think the basic problem is one of sheer numbers.  Waving at all Series
and Defenders one meets on the roads in Britain would be like waving at
all the Chevy pickups here (well. sort of).  Arm fatigue would set in,
light switches would wear out, and accidents would occur...  It wouldn't
be a pretty picture. 

Rgds,

Walt          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1969 LR Dormobile- "Bertha"   *
              * Davis, California       | 1988 Range Rover- "Lady Jane" *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:43:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Diesel-trouble / truck--stop!

In a message dated 96-07-30 04:43:24 EDT, you write:

--And what are the "right colors"?
-If we're going to be parochial,Bronze Green.The working Land Rover colour.
-But allowed,just:
-Marine Blue
-Light Grey
-Dark Grey
-Sand
-Light Green
-..And a judicious use of Limestone.The *old* Limestone,of course.

AND POPPY RED, with red wheels, but mostly for export and fire tenders
bronze green wheels with bronze green
limestone wheels with others
(poppy red aerosol paint spray cans WERE available)

David Cockey
Rochester, Michigan
'60 SII 88 SW originally (and to be again) Poppy Red

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:53:59 -0400
Subject: Re: What you call it (Delaware)

Ned from Delaware expounds:

>Even though the inspection side of Public Safety says I am driving a truck,
>the licensing side of the same department says that I am driving a station
>wagon. So I have a "PC" tag that allows me to drive on cars-only roads like
>the Garden State Parkway.

PC on a tag in Delaware officially stands for "Passenger Car" and essentially
denotes what others would call a station wagon. The origins of the usage are
ancient, and I can't remember the official term for what others call a
passenger car. We had several PC's when we lived in Delaware, and one was a
non-Rover 81" 4x4 that came with a 3 diget PC tag.

BTW, how does the Garden State Parkway deal with sport-utes these days?

David Cockey
Rochester, MI

------------------------------

From: daviscar@cris.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:52:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Where are they?

Hi All

I know there is a AB on the East coast but where are they? What state and
town please.
Thank you
Bruce
67 SIIA 88 Patches
WANTED pre 1968 109 In USA
Daviscar@concentric.net
        Or
BDaviscar@aol.com

------------------------------

From: daviscar@cris.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:52:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: The bikers are winning!!!

Hi All

I posted Awail back about the midwest Rally Or a 50th Anniversary National
Rally. and how the bikers even do things for charity. It saddens me to tell
you all that the Bikers must be better then the Rover owners as I only got
one Person to Volunter to help do anything. That person is going to talk to
LR of Can. to see if they would be willing to help. But with only TWO of us
doing anything I guess the Bikers WIN HANDS DOWN. I for one am not going
down with out a fight.
Bruce
67 SIIA 88 Patches
WANTED pre 1968 109 In USA
Daviscar@concentric.net
        Or
BDaviscar@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:01:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Really BIG fly trap

Bill expounds on painting a LR with marine paint using rollers:

>Continue to roll over the area you just covered until the paint is evenly 
>spread and the roller begins to 'dry'.

Never done it myself, but I've seen superb results on boats where the paint
was applied with a foam roller, then "tipped" with a brush, i.e. lightly
brushed out. Also some marine paints are very "self leveling" which means
brush strokes, etc. tend to disappear. The down side is imperfections are not
covered very well, and the paint is thin on sharp corners.

David Cockey 

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:04:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Diesel-trouble / truck--stop!

Tim wonders why"
>Seriously? Red was an export-only color (colour)? Why is that - did they
look
>to much like emergency vehicles or something? That explains why I can't get
>'genuine' touch up spray paint in Poppy...

Red paint is much more expensive than other colors. My guess is Rover was
more cost consious on what stayed at home.

David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:23:35 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Spares

ChrisF6724@aol.com wrote:

>an empty can and duct tape to "patch" a large radiator hose leak.

"Empty"??  I try to carry several "full" ones.  Anyway, I used this trick to 
patch up the intermediate (by-pass) hose.  Cut the top and bottoms off a 
recently-emptied malt beverage, slit the side, slathered it with Permatex, 
stuck it in place and secured with the existing hose clamps.  An "armored" 
bypass hose - what a concept.  It worked so well, I left it on for years.  
It would still be there, but it wasn't my favorite brand.  Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *----1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7 ----*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 20:38:21 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Where are they?

Hi All

I know there is a AB on the East coast but where are they? What state and
town please.
Thank you
Bruce
67 SIIA 88 Patches
WANTED pre 1968 109 In USA
Daviscar@concentric.net
        Or
BDaviscar@aol.com

Atlantic British-
Mecanicsville (or is it Mechanicsburg?) NY
1 800 533 2210
They don't stock many Genuine parts, but some of their stuff is quite nice and 
inexpensive. I went for their swivel ball rebuild kit which was about $450 bucks
for everything, and it seemed fine.

I've since shied away from using them since I've found similar prices on stuff 
where the vendor can actually tell me who makes it. Their window channel kits 
and door seals etc, seemed pretty good when my roomate got them. Alot of their 
stuff comes in kits too which is nice if need all the goods...

Cheers
Dave B.

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:57:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Where are they?

AB is in Mechanicville a little north of Albany,New York and about 20 minn
from my house 
Rgds
Steve    72 S lll 88 ( For Sale)
            68 S lla 88
            96 Discovery SE7

------------------------------

From: JDolan2109@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 21:03:48 -0400
Subject: Gaskets...

Rich w/ a D90 wrote:
"I've heard stories of old series with blown gaskets using newspapers in a
pinch, but would really rather not find out if that were true in the middle
of a big field or gulley."

This couldn't be true. I'd doubt the tolerances of an older series LR would
allow the use of newspapers for gaskets. My suggestion is to use the
newspapers for fire starting, or better yet, fold them up and make funny
hats! Descriminating breakdown repairmen know to go for the telephone book
cover first! One got me out of Atkinson, Kansas in the middle of the night
once...
see 'ya on the old road...
Jim '61 LR 88" SW  w/ 16's, OD 1 Bbl weber (econobox?)  "Nicky"
LR...quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised!  

"If we're treading on thin ice, then we might as well dance..."  Jesse
Winchester

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 18:29:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: Apology

At 11:30 PM 7/29/96 -0400, you wrote:
>To list readers:
>My humble apologies for posting dealer D90 listings the other day. In my

excitement (which historically has been  my problem) I wanted to let people
who are having trouble locating suitable vehicles know as soon as possible.
We get on average 5 - 10 calls daily (mostly out-of-state) of people looking
for D90s and I can't help them.
>But I concede that blatant advertising is against the concept of this list
>My humble apologies for posting dealer D90 listings the other day. In my
and I will try to restrain myself in the future. Again, I sincerely apologize.
>However, I have received numerous private postings from LROs asking me to
>My humble apologies for posting dealer D90 listings the other day. In my
continue posting news of new product and updates. 
>I will continue to do this as information is released unless the postings
>My humble apologies for posting dealer D90 listings the other day. In my
assume a negative tone to desist in this practice.
>The BSROA is ready to begin work on a Club web page. LRMW does have one  at
>My humble apologies for posting dealer D90 listings the other day. In my
www.FMWEST.COM - although specific vehicle info. is sparse at this point. I
will probably do one for specific dealer vehicles in the future and this
will eliminate any conflicts of interest with the original intent of the LRO
digest.
>The Pink Panther (just arrived ex-Dunsfold Museum) will eventually be on
>My humble apologies for posting dealer D90 listings the other day. In my
semi-permanent display at Land Rover Metro West starting this fall. All LROs
and enthusiasts are cordially welcome to stop by and say hello and see it if
and when in the Boston area.
>Nuff said! Sorry for the BW.
>cheers
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
>`96 DISCO SE7(M)
>SAS PINK PANTHER 10FG56
If this is where we want to be going, than I too need to apologize for
posting about a D90 I saw at a dealer the other day.  For that matter,
should I even plug a dealer here?  Of course I should!  Along with swivel
balls, fuel pumps and all, the dealers are part of the Land Rover
experience!  What is the difference between plugging a good mud tire and a
good dealer or parts supplier?

I also think Defender listings can fall into this area.  Compared to RRs and
Discos the D110s and D90s are in short supply and in high demand.  It is
good to know what is available in the market and how they are selling since
they are the current series (IV) LR.  We are not doing LRMW any favors.  The
demand for these LRs is such that they probably sell right away for the
asking price. 

As for the Renewed Traditions ad.  It was interesting and it was certainly
not aimmed at this crowd based on how the descriptions were written.

In the short time I have subscribed to the lists I have seen the lists do a
good job of policing commercial content to the desired level.  The magazine
flim flams are gone and the commercial vendors on the lists are the good
neighbors we want.  The latest example is the LRO Bookshop, when they
started on here they came on a little heavy and with the urging of the list
subscribers they learned what is expected.

Just my opinion.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport NH USA   603-863-7883

------------------------------

From: Atlanta67@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 00:37:49 -0400
Subject:  NEVER MIND

To Whom it may concern,

What has this come to!!!  You guys sound like a bunch of High school girls
gossiping about who kissed who at the Prom dance.  COME ON...  All this talk
and not one of you has been MAN enough to talk to Sean or myself personally.
 I thought this was a group of people who shared a common interest.  I
thought we were supposed to ask questions and share answers.  I thought this
was a Land Rover Club.  Well maybe club does not mean any thing to you guys?
 Obviously not!!  You kick out members who are only in search of answers and
advice,  You talk bad about your fellow club members,  and make false
assumptions for no reason.   Does it ever STOP!  Yes I printed the news
letter and sent it out to my valued Land Rover Friends..  I never planned for
it to be <posted> because I knew certain members would cry for weeks over it.
 I hear so many rumors about "Renewed Traditions this" and  "Renewed
Traditions that," and most of the time it is by people who have never spoken
to me personally .  WEAK! WEAK I say!!!  I run a honest business and wanted
nothing more than to extend my hard work and honesty to you the enthusiasts.
 This is the thanks I get... Well no thank you!!  I herby UNSUBSCRIBE
MYSELF..  and continue my search for a club that values and RESPECTS one
another.

Thanks for Nothing,
JOHN P. DUHIG
Operations Manager
Renewed Traditions.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:57:37 -0700
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: NEVER MIND/Commercial Content

At 12:37 AM 7/31/96 -0400, you wrote:
>To Whom it may concern,
>What has this come to!!!  You guys sound like a bunch of High school girls
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
>Operations Manager
>Renewed Traditions.

There are a lot of knowledgeable skeptics on the list, and vendors who make
grandiose claims tend to attract unfavorable attention, especially if they
lack a solid history of satisfied customers.  My personal opinion:  I think
short announcements from vendors can be interesting and acceptable, but that
otherwise vendors should let their products, service, and customer
word-of-mouth do the sales talk.

That said, I would appreciate a clearer guideline as to what is considered
proscribed "commercial content" on the list.  I propose that the following
should be acceptable ("OK"), with anything more "commercial" to be either
questionable or plainly not acceptable.

Article by list member about his/her experience with a product, service, or
vendor  = OK.  

List members helping each other locate products, services, or vendors = OK.

List members' private party WTB or FS ads = OK

Vendor's brief announcement of an upcoming meet or event, perhaps sponsored
by vendor = OK

Vendor's brief anouncement giving new or changed address, phone, or URL (of
vendor's Web page) = OK

Vendor answering question from list member, including reference to product
or service that meets member's need = OK.

Vendor's *short*, *matter-of-fact* announcement of new product or service =
OK, if terse, infrequent, and interesting.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 00:43:28 -0700
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re[2]: NEVER MIND/Commercial Content

At 10:57 PM 7/30/96 -0700, John Y Liu <johnliu@earthlink.net> wrote:
:That said, I would appreciate a clearer guideline as to what is considered
:proscribed "commercial content" on the list.  I propose the following....
:
:Article about his/her experience with a product, service, or vendor  = OK.  
:List members helping each other locate products, services, or vendors = OK.
:List members' private party WTB or FS ads = OK
:Vendor's announcement of an upcoming meet or event = OK
:Vendor's anouncement giving address, phone, or URL (of vendor's Web page) = OK
:Vendor answering question, reference to product or service = OK.
:Vendor's announcement of new product or service = OK.

 Sounds good to me, John!  Pretty much everything = OK

 Cheers,
                         ______
 Michael Carradine       [__[__\==                    Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900            [________]               Land-Rover Roughmobile
 cs@crl.com  __________.._(o)__.(o)____...o^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88")
 _______________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page:   http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html 

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: Military LR
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 96 8:52:06 BST

> > Would be a big problem for waving or flashing lights, with almost 2000
> > Landies on the site !  The thing that me made unhappy, was that due my
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> light switches would wear out, and accidents would occur...  It wouldn't
> be a pretty picture. 

Definitely true of Discoveries and Rangies. Not sure about Series vehicles.
I wave at all Series vehicles and mil. (FC 101s get lots of flashes!)
- usually get some kind of response back. Defenders tend not to wave either
(unless, say, they're enthusiast/expedition/etc vehicles).

In the Yorkshire Dales the other week, "proper" Land Rovers were the norm
- all working vehicles. Series IIIs outnumbered Defenders too!  :-)
No response from the farmers there, except, perhaps a nod to acknowledge
stopping in a passing place (lots of single track lanes).

When I broke down on the M25 at the weekend, a D90 trialler did stop, but
by that time, we'd found the problem and I was just investigating how
to repair it (electrical).

Richard  (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 09:41:37 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Diesel-trouble / truck--stop!

Red paint is much more expensive than other colors. My guess is Rover was
>more cost consious on what stayed at home.
>David Cockey

Dave,Red was a deliberate attempt to "brighten up" the vehicle for the
American market.They could already sell all they could make at home.
All our domestic cars at that time were fairly sober affairs,two seaters
excepted.
And when you think about it,Light Green and the Greys apart,the other
colours were pretty much military.
Bronze Green-Army
Marine Blue-RAF
Sand??? Camo?
Red would have just been too "frivolous" over here,and wouldnt have sold,
so no point in offering it.A *Red* Land Rover?What does he think he is?
Some sort of boy racer in a tank?Show the dirt something shocking it will,
Mutter,mutter,mutter......'nother pint,Fred,please..
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: NEVER MIND
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 19:19:29 +0930 (CST)

>  This is the thanks I get... Well no thank you!!  I herby UNSUBSCRIBE
> MYSELF..  and continue my search for a club that values and RESPECTS one
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> Operations Manager
> Renewed Traditions.

Dear John (hey I always wanted to start a letter like that),  looks like 
good riddance to me, I'm getting too old for all this Sh*t.

As we say in this part of the world.

"May all your choocks turn into Emu's and kick your dunny down"

cheers and best wishes

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 11:04:06 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: NEVER MIND

>"May all your choocks turn into Emu's and kick your dunny down"

One way of getting rid of Funnelwebs,I suppose..Bit drastic though.

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: NEVER MIND et al
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 20:23:44 +0930 (CST)

Mike Rooth responds to my traditional curse:
> >"May all your chooks turn into Emu's and kick your dunny down"
with.
> One way of getting rid of Funnelwebs,I suppose..Bit drastic though.

No No Mike! havent you heard the song...
 "Twas a Redback on the toilet seat when I went there last night....."

cheers

Daryl

------------------------------

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