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Date: 20 Feb 1996 13:12:00 U
From: "Marc Rengers" <Marc.Rengers@minerva.media-gn.nl>
Subject: RE: Cupholders

Alexander P. Grice wrote:

into
	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 6 lines)]
> work in any position.  My brother went through a 720 degree roll and =
didn't
> spill a drop....  Cheers

In his Range Rover????? or Defender???

-- 
I wonder what kind of rollcage that Landy has, if there is one fitted! Or =
were the cups empty?

Marc Rengers

marc.rengers@minerva.media-gn.nl

Groningen, Holland

SIII  88" HardTop Petrol 1977
     110" StaWag  Diesel 1987

___________________________________________________________________________=
____

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 06:19:50 -0600 (CST)
From: Lorri Paustian <lorri@sound.net>
Subject: D90 SW

My husband, Steve, and I just flew to Dallas, TX Saturday morning to pick up
our new D90 SW.  We had one on order here in Kansas City since December 16.
On February 7, we called the dealer asking when in the heck we could expect
delivery on it.  They said, "Oh, we can't get any more."  So after we got
over our initial shock, we called LRNA and got a faxed list of dealers in
the USA.  Started calling around to the dealers within a "reasonable"
distance from KC.  We actually found three or four and all seemingly
receptive to negotiate price.  
The one we finally settled on was the only Arles Blue we had found.  It was
a demo with 5370 miles on it; therefore, the price was discounted
accordingly.  (They also were charging $600 less than our local dealer to
install the AC.)  It had running boards that they wanted a pretty penny for,
but we forgave that when we arrived and the sales rep told us he hadn't been
aware when he gave us the final price that it had a CD player in it (which
we got at no charge).  We drove the 500 miles back to KC that day.  Made for
a long but adventurous and worthwhile trip.

They also had what the Sales Rep, Ryan Wingate, said was one of 40 hybrid
'94 D90 SW's that were brought into the US.  They were not numbered and
similar to the limited 500's.  It was green and had the same burmabright
white top as the SW's except the tailgate lifts up and the bottom swings
out.  Accessories included a bull bar with a 9000 lb. Warn winch, underbody
protection armor plate, A/C and Hella 2000 lights.  Price was $33,500.  That
was the first I had heard of these 40 hybrids.

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 09:14:26 -0700
From: johnc@itsnet.com (John Christensen)
Subject: d90 SW dealer pricing

I drove by the local Land Rover dealer the other day.  Saw
two beautiful D90 SWs, both Alpine White.  I thought I'd stop
in and take a look.  I was shocked when I looked at the sticker.
It said something to the effect that since these were limited
edition models that the dealer was adding in a special profit
margin.  The list was, are you all sitting down?, $42,600!
Love that supply and demand.

Signed Stunned in Utah!
John Christensen
Provo, Utah
94 D90 T.E.D. #775
Lorri Paustian, Flatland Rover Society
Lenexa, Kansas
'95 Conistan Green Discovery
'95 Arles Blue D90 SW

------------------------------

From: Administrator_at_GSA-2P__1@NPRGATE.GSA.GOV
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 07:14:32 EST
Subject: Message not deliverable

Dixon wrote:
 
> > I hope someone has some information to contribute..... this kind of info
> > would be helpful!
>  Actually, the page for Austria should be up soon.  
 It is up.  :)

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

------------------------------

From: Administrator_at_GSA-2P__1@ccgate1.gsa.gov
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 07:15:20 est
Subject: Message not deliverable

hi people,

I am wondering which type of spark plug leads are best for my 86in 1954 =
SI, original solid (Cu) core leads (not worried about radio reception, =
just original performance, or a set of carbon spark plug leads off the =
shelf?

comments? Thanks in anticipation.

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@mail.biddeford.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 07:59:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Labrador

 
> Four Wheeler, October 1992, describes a trip through Labrador.  It 
> implies that the road does exist although the magazine staff writers 
> are not precise and did not show a usable map detailing the route 
> taken. 

A friend of mine, his wife and in-laws drove this road last year.  They 
drove to Goose Bay from here in Maine, took a ferry up the coast of 
Labrador and did about two weeks of kayaking among the icebergs.  They came 
home the same route.  
The interesting part for us is that they did it in a rented Taurus station 
wagon.  I saw slides of the road and  I suppose it could be pretty tricky 
at muddy times of the year, and the scenery is great, but it's not a Camel 
Trophy sort of thing.  Easy trip for any sort of LR, but probably most 
exciting for a old series vehicle miles from anywhere.  The World is truly 
getting smaller and more civilised.

Ron Franklin, finding my own adventures in

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

From: Administrator_at_GSA-2P__1@ccgate1.gsa.gov
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 07:16:12 est
Subject: Message not deliverable

>I was wondering if anyone knows where I can get Land Rover stuff.  My 
>dealer only carries a handful of stuff.  Burago makes a large model of 
>the terrible Explorer, does anyone know if they have one for any Land 
>Rover?  I am in search for Camel Trophy gear, and models.
-
Burago used to have a SerIII 109... Britains makes some nice D90's and
Discoveries.

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 08:49:45 -0400
From: jim@kidd.com (jnk)
Subject: Brake master cylinder

Hello all,

I have purchased a CV cylinder to replace the old and worn out CB on a my
1960 SII. Has anyone else used this option and have they had any problems?
We have done this once before and it seemed to work fine.

Also, do any of you guys have a used canvas for an 88"? I would really like
to find a military canvas with no side windows.

Jim Karantinos
Tallahassee, FL

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 08:59:09 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Electrolysis, Alum

  Where the rear seatbelt steel reinforcements were allowed to
contact the Birmabright was a different story - now fixed.  

Doug Scott
      
Doug- Could you email me direct w/ details of how you did this? I have some 
ideas but I'm still open to suggestions (other than bondo)

Thanks 
David Bobeck
dbobeck@ushmm.org

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 08:18:51 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: less occupant injury in new cars 

Ben writes:
snip
> Personally, I don't like having an explosive sitting right in front of me.  
> In my SIII, however, this is not an issue.  I always wear my seatbelt though.
snip
Of course, in my LR, I'm sitting with an explosive under me.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 09:18:56 -0500

 enough, Land Rover will replace the camshaft thrust button
>or drivebelt on your 1994 Range Rover or 1994-95 Discovery to stop the
knocking."
Anyone have any details on the specific failure and diagnosis details
>related to this issue?
>.
I hear some piston slap in my 3.9, but it seems to go away after the engine
warms up.  It doesn't sound to me like anything with the camshaft or timing
chain.  I assume anything with the Disco V8 is with the Defenders too.

John, 94 D90 #1336

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 06:24:22 -0800
Subject: Re: Roof vents section for Safari

Rob,

I think the tropical roof skin cab be purchased new.  I think I saw someone
pick one up from British Pacific at a British car event.

Give them a try 

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 09:42:35 -0500
From: Dick Hahn <dreams@nexusprime.org>

-- [ From: Dick Hahn * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

your system does not unsubscribe as directed.  I have received results of
unsubscribe message but still receive e-mail

dick hahn

-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------

Date: Tuesday, 20-Feb-96 04:03 AM

From: owner-lro-digest-ltd@playground \ Internet:   
(owner-lro-digest-ltd@playground)
(lro-digest-ltd-outgoing@playground)

Subject: 

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	  Contents:
    1 michaelk@infi.net  Mon Feb 19 05:06   39/1210  Re: Advanced Adapters
add
    2 michaelk@infi.net  Mon Feb 19 05:06   41/1470  Re: Cupholders
    3 @E-MAIL.COM:steve_ Mon Feb 19 05:17   85/3361  LR 3 ME 7
    4 trowe@AE.AGECON.WI Mon Feb 19 06:05   43/1646  less occupant injury in
n
    5 trowe@AE.AGECON.WI Mon Feb 19 06:09   40/1411  Re: Series Owners - New
U
    6 TEASTON@DQC2.DOFAS Mon Feb 19 06:13   31/1482  Cup Holder Technology
    7 trowe@AE.AGECON.WI Mon Feb 19 06:18   39/1378  Re: Electrolysis, Alum
    8 birddog@auburn.cam Mon Feb 19 06:37   38/2354  Harrell Motor Sales
    9 trowe@AE.AGECON.WI Mon Feb 19 06:46   42/1279  Re: Cupholders
   10 halgram@slip.net   Mon Feb 19 07:09   32/1771  Silicone Brake Fluid
   11 73363.427@compuser Mon Feb 19 07:11   42/1536  Series Brake Shoes
   12 TWakeman/Apple@ewo Mon Feb 19 07:11  111/5595  Not replacing worn out
pa
   13 Sanna@aol.com      Mon Feb 19 07:26   14/600   Re: Advanced Adapters
add
   14 dunsmo19@us.net    Mon Feb 19 07:29   31/1116  Wiring Question
   15 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.u Mon Feb 19 07:50   29/1071  Re: Series Brake Shoes
   16 73363.427@compuser Mon Feb 19 07:53   48/1989  Altenators Woes
   17 PurnellJE@aol.com  Mon Feb 19 07:58   32/1371  Re: Locking hubs in the
L
   18 jjbpears@ix.netcom Mon Feb 19 08:19   26/945   Cold Bushings
Contraction
   19 dunsmo19@us.net    Mon Feb 19 08:23   40/1666  Re: Not replacing worn
ou
   20 jib@big.att.com    Mon Feb 19 08:31   32/1315  misc, v8, NJ laws
   21 trowe@AE.AGECON.WI Mon Feb 19 08:55   35/1531  freewheeling hubs
   22 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.u Mon Feb 19 09:02   28/1046  Re: Locking hubs in the
L
   23 jh5r+@andrew.cmu.e Mon Feb 19 09:08   49/2568  Re: Zenith carb. fuel
lin
   24 debrown@srp.gov    Mon Feb 19 09:16   96/5343  Mudding in the ole
Range 
   25 rosenbau@u.washing Mon Feb 19 09:21   55/2534  Re: REBUILT DEFENDER
110s
   26 TWakeman/Apple@ewo Mon Feb 19 09:27   54/2196  series- center diff? we
d
   27 whadley@INETGATE.u Mon Feb 19 09:29   45/2039  Brooklyn and Rovers
   28 jhoward@argus.lowe Mon Feb 19 09:34   25/972   Re: Zenith carb. fuel
lin
   29 newconcept@tcp.co. Mon Feb 19 10:09   67/3070  Re: Not replacing worn
ou
   30 newconcept@tcp.co. Mon Feb 19 10:09   43/1694  Re: Wiring Question
   31 trowe@AE.AGECON.WI Mon Feb 19 10:19   53/2137  Re: Series Owners - New
U
   32 matts@cacilj.cacia Mon Feb 19 10:28   46/2117  front hitch receiver
   33 rchala@gladstone.u Mon Feb 19 10:39   26/1151  4-wheel high?
   34 Harincar@mooregs.c Mon Feb 19 10:41   45/1571  Door vents
   35 lorri@sound.net    Mon Feb 19 10:54   64/3024  D90 SW
   36 Sanna@aol.com      Mon Feb 19 11:06   80/4167  Oh Those Pesky Hubs
   37 ecrover@midcoast.c Mon Feb 19 11:06   24/796   Number?
   38 Mark.Kraieski@mail Mon Feb 19 11:30   53/2424  Re: Locking hubs in the
L
   39 jib@big.att.com    Mon Feb 19 11:49   22/811   coiler frame FS $1000 
(re
   40 m8f@ornl.gov       Mon Feb 19 11:54   38/1677  Re: Cup Holders
   41 Harincar@mooregs.c Mon Feb 19 12:02   39/1409  The RN Home Page
   42 RMILLER@Middlebury Mon Feb 19 12:08   32/1360  Re: Cupholder
Technology
   43 a-robw@microsoft.c Mon Feb 19 12:23   43/2153  RE: D90 SW
   44 adallas@systemsoft Mon Feb 19 12:28   31/1070  Re: Number?
   45 IIIDmentia@gnn.com Mon Feb 19 12:52   34/1237  Re: Oh Those Pesky Hubs
   46 PurnellJE@aol.com  Mon Feb 19 12:58   22/942   Re: Cup Holder
Technology
   47 Sanna@aol.com      Mon Feb 19 13:13   18/752   Re: RE: D90 SW
   48 m8f@ornl.gov       Mon Feb 19 13:15   33/1325  Batesville, GA Rally
   49 lopezba@atnet.co.a Mon Feb 19 13:18   41/1762  Re: Hubs and front end
we
   50 lopezba@atnet.co.a Mon Feb 19 13:18   93/4655  Re: The Gospel about
Free
   51 wcswain@wheel.dcn. Mon Feb 19 13:42   45/2139  RE: D90 SW
   52 gpool@pacific.paci Mon Feb 19 13:48   47/2144  Roof vents as footwell
ve
   53 PurnellJE@aol.com  Mon Feb 19 13:59   22/834   Re: Series Brake Shoes
an
   54 PurnellJE@aol.com  Mon Feb 19 13:59   26/1098  Re: series- center diff
? 
   55 PurnellJE@aol.com  Mon Feb 19 13:59   28/1130  Re: Locking hubs in the
L
   56 PurnellJE@aol.com  Mon Feb 19 13:59   29/1153  Re: Locking hubs in the
L
   57 Inkornoink@aol.com Mon Feb 19 15:15   29/915   Re: REBUILT DEFENDER
110 
   58 peterson@newton.ap Mon Feb 19 15:21   52/1840  Disco & RR Problem?
   59 newconcept@tcp.co. Mon Feb 19 15:59   55/2106  Re: 4-wheel high?
   60 bens@archimedes.vi Mon Feb 19 16:20   47/2440  Re: Series Brake Shoes
   61 michaelk@infi.net  Mon Feb 19 17:36   39/1304  Re: Altenators Woes
   62 michaelk@infi.net  Mon Feb 19 17:42   46/1636  Re: Advanced Adapters
add
   63 stevecox@Access.Mo Mon Feb 19 18:09   27/1163  Re: BB List (Tom Rowe)
   64 DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.C Mon Feb 19 19:02   37/1712  Re: less occupant
injury 
   65 EvanD103@aol.com   Mon Feb 19 19:53   30/1605  Re: Whines
   66 bens@archimedes.vi Mon Feb 19 20:01   70/4043  Re: less occupant
injury 
   67 CarDoctor@gnn.com  Mon Feb 19 20:05   37/1819  Roof vents section for
Sa
   68 fhyap@ix.netcom.co Mon Feb 19 20:20   20/869   Labrador
   69 lmkessler@srnet.co Mon Feb 19 20:28   43/1739  Free Wheeling Hubs
   70 a-robw@microsoft.c Mon Feb 19 20:45   33/1850  RE: less occupant
injury 
   71 philr@ozemail.com. Mon Feb 19 20:58   45/1922  Re: Locking hubs in the
L
   72 CrankIt@aol.com    Mon Feb 19 21:06   22/802   Re: D90 SW
   73 jcwhite3@well.com  Mon Feb 19 21:06   52/2090  Re: less occupant
injury 
   74 SACME@aol.com      Mon Feb 19 21:46   46/2087  Series Brake Shoes
   75 MCKAIN@cemr.wvu.ed Tue Feb 20 00:10   37/1250  Re: Electrolysis, Alum
   76 davew@landie.demon Tue Feb 20 00:37   61/2478  Re: Series Brake Shoes
   77 jve@phaseone.dk    Tue Feb 20 01:08   45/1744  Brake Fluids - Warning!
   78 gtan@bbchw.demon.c Tue Feb 20 03:46   35/1641  Re: Diagnosing RR's

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 07:56:16 -0500
From: Michael Kirk <michaelk@infi.net>
Subject: Re: Advanced Adapters address

Advance Adapters
P.O.Box 247
335 Santa Bella Ave
Paso Robles, CA 93446-0247

Yes!
-- 
=============================================================  	 
        Michael Kirk "michaelk@infi.net"
       92 Range Rover   
      Graduate Student, MBA Program, Old Dominion University
      Norfolk, VA, USA  
       (804) 440-5383   
=============================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 07:57:49 -0500
From: Michael Kirk <michaelk@infi.net>
Subject: Re: Cupholders

Alexander P. Grice wrote:

> Bar Bouys.  Designed for boats with a little plastic piece you screw into
> place and a gimbaled drink holder that dovetails into it.  These things
> work in any position.  My brother went through a 720 degree roll and
didn't
> spill a drop....  Cheers

In his Range Rover????? or Defender???

-- 
=============================================================  	 
        Michael Kirk "michaelk@infi.net"
       92 Range Rover   
      Graduate Student, MBA Program, Old Dominion University
      Norfolk, VA, USA  
       (804) 440-5383   
=============================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:17:30 EST
From: steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com
Subject: LR 3 ME 7

  
From: Steve Reddock
Subject: LR 3 ME 7
Hi all,
  
I'm back after a week off and with any luck the major will resubscribe me.
  
The strange score line refers to the activities during my week off.
  
My garage is now occupied with an engine mounted on 2 axles and a chassis.
There is nothing else on my LR, no bodywork, bulkhead, gearbox, wiring or
anything. Not even much paint at the moment.
  
In the process of getting it to this state I gained 3 cuts to the knuckles,
but I ground/cut/drilled 7 nuts from the LR (hence the score). It may have
the sharp edges, but I have the power tools!!
  
Useful tool #1 a sandblaster for the pressure washer. Worked brilliantly,
for 10 seconds. Useful tool #2 (which I didn't have) a working sandblaster
for the pressure washer. The new one died a rapid death as well, they are a
poor design.
  
This left me to strip the old paint the hard way. A wall paper steam
stripper does a good job on underseal, it softens it enough to scrape off
with a scraper, without any flames or poisonous fumes.
  
I think I found the cause for my gearbox probs. One mounting had snapped
which would cause movement under power, but not under engine braking. Still
it leaked oil so it needs stripping anyway. There may be other problems
inside, but the oil was clean with no crunchy bits (at least the box wasn't
filled with frogs!) which is a good sign.
  
The chassis was in remarkably good condidtion, the bulkhead out rigger had
been patched with thin steel by a PO and this had trapped mud & water. When
I hit the bolt holding the bulkhead on the outrigger moved, but not the bolt
. One minute with the sharpened chisel had the thing lying at my feet. If
they are that weak there is little point in them being there! It passed an
MOT 7 weeks ago.
  
There were also two small holes under the rear bumpstops (lovely moisture
trap). Not at all bad for a 22 year old chassis which has spent the last 2
years within 1/4 mile of the sea.
  
There was a lot of surface rust though, another year before repainting would
have meant lots of welding.
  
So in the last year I've changed the engine, fixed the gearbox, rewired it,
replaced the rear diff, repainted the chassis, replaced clutch & brake pipes
& cylinders and brake shoes.  My monies on the front axle next, or perhaps a
half shaft.
  
An evening off today, then back to work on the beast, it may run again in a
month or so.
  
Have fun, Steve
  
Steve Reddock, Xyratex       | Just as he thought he had
Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450     | clinched the interview he was
  
IBMMAIL (GBXYR96P)           | visited by the ghost of Usenet
Steve_Reddock@uk.xyratex.com | Postings Past.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:08:02 GMT -0600
Subject: less occupant injury in new cars

The buy back pogram thread digressed into questions about occupant  injury
rates in newer cars. I recently read that the the death rate  (or maybe
injury rate, I can't remember) wasn't declining at the  expected rate with
the introduction of airbags and other passive  restraint systems. Apparently
people are assuming they can't get hurt  now and so are driving more
carelessly at higher speeds. Sometimes I wonder about people. I guess it's
the same mentality that  says "I have 4WD, now I can drive fast on icy roads
."

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:12:33 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Series Owners - New Use for PTO

?????? I'm confused here. Why not just hook it up to your auto 
electrical system? Or hook a little electric motor to one of the hand 
crank varity? It would be alot cheaper than a PTO unit.
The US military (as well as others I suppose) had hand cranked radios 
in the 2nd world war.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Cup Holder Technology
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 09:22:00 EST

Saw a useful device advertized some while ago in a yachting mag. It was 
called a sailors drinking glass. It was a narow necked flask with a wide lip
 from which to sip and hung around your neck on a cord. Sounds ideal for off
 roading as even during a complete roll over you need not spill a drop. may 
prove uncomfortable when your plushmobile air bag drives it into your chest 
though.

Trevor "isn't it illegal to drink while driving?" Easton

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:20:43 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Electrolysis, Alum

If you used a carbon steel wire brush you've defeated your efforts.  Tiny
particles of carbon steel were embeded in the aluminum. You  should only use
a stainless or aluminum brush. Some hardware stores  carry them, and all
welding supply stores should have them.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: David Scott Mary Ann <birddog@auburn.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Harrell Motor Sales
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:36:07 -0600

Rob sorry I missed you guys this wkend, when is the next  trip?  Made it =
to Harrells Motor with the three trans.  Elected to rebuild the engine =
myself and have the block stripped and to the machine shop now.  It is =
amazing how these engines keep running despite such heavy wear.  Ted, =
from HMS met me on Sat afternoon, despite being closed so I could =
deliver the trans.  He looked at a Zenith carb I brought and said it was =
not rebuildable, the base was worn where the the trottle goes through =
it.  Does anyone know if you can buy just the base?  Ted didn't know of =
anyone who could supply a base.  Ted was a bit dismayed at the two trans =
that we had torn apart, said we had created a lot of extra work,  As he =
looked in the back of my pickup he had the same expression on his face =
as my 2nd wife on our honeymoon.  He as she, kept it to himself well and =
was really a  nice guy.  This week is frame repair week.  I have a =
severely bent trans crossmember.  I plan to cut it off and the x-member =
in front, also severely bent, and weld some straight ones on from =
another otherwise worthless frame.  I plan to make the trans x-member =
removable, any ideas on the best way to do it out there.  There are two =
defender110's  in Atlanta for sale 40k, 43k both with 37k mi.  Anyone =
out there with one for 38k?  Have a great day.  birddog

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:48:43 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Cupholders

> Bar Bouys.  

Andy, that's then ones I was thinking of. Couldn't remember the name. 
Should have known it had "bar" in it, ;-)   and "bouy" since always stays 
upright.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 07:09:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Hal Leininger <halgram@slip.net>
Subject: Silicone Brake Fluid

About 3 years ago I did a complete brake job on my 1966 109, new front 
cylinders, metal and rubber lines, rebuilt rears, new slave for clutch,  new
brake master and rebuilt clutch. I had the Rover many years and was  sick of
finding the aluminum cylinders corroded every couple of years so  I wanted
to use silicone to hopefully stop the process. I wrote the mfg's  of 2 of
the fluids I saw in the auto parts stores as there were  disclaimers that
gave me pause. A friend lent me a British book on LR  restoration that
highly recommended silicone. I thought it would work and  gave it a try. It
wasn't long before the purple color was gone and there  was rubber in the
reservoir. I called DAP,before their move, to order some  parts and related
my experience. I was told that they had also had  failure with silicone
other than GM, that the formulations of various  mfg's differed respective
to additives. I read the post about the  formulation change and there's no
year given as to when that happened. I  also don't know how long the stuff I
got was on the shelf. Maybe it's all  ok by now.  

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 19 Feb 96 10:01:29 EST
Subject: Series Brake Shoes

>> The reason they could not be fitted was that the holes in the shoes were 
not tapped to receive the screws. All the supplier's stock was identical  in
this respect. <<

Even the genuine shoes are like this, but they come with two self tapping
screws. It takes a little work to get them started, but I have never had
much trouble with them.

Someone else might have a better idea of what the purpose is, but I always
thought it was to fasten the bottom of the shoes down. 
  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 19-Feb-1996

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 07:12:11 -0800
 ---- cut here ---- 
End of Multipart LRO-Digest Section:  /tmp/960220.aa of /tmp/960220.af

-------- REPLY, End of original message --------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 09:44:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: RE: less occupant injury in new cars 

On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote:

> >Of other note, has anyone thought about those automatic seatbelts that
> >put the shoulder belt for you (but you have to remember to put on the
> IMHO, this was one of THE dumbest inventions the automotive industry has
> foisted on the public. I'm glad LR's don't have these or I'd still be
> driving a Jeep!

	When I last heard, automatic seatbelts that slide along rails
	(whatever) were not permitted by DOT in Canada.  Actually, there
	are a suprising number of American, and Canadian built (by US
	automakers) vehicles that are not road legal in Canada for various
	reasons.

Dixon Kenner                                    (819) 997-1107
Canadian Forestry Service                       Natural Resources Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 09:50:06 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: Coils for Jeeps, Winter Romp

Dear All,
        All of you who participate in Off Road events know the looks you
get when you pull up in a Land Rover, from all the Jeep and FJ40 owners.
The FJ40 crowd seems to understand Rovers, but the Jeep guys seem to be a
different breed. Well now you have some amunition to really get them going.
Turns out that the 1997 Jeep Wrangler will be fully coil sprung just like
the Defenders and the custom Series Coils. So next time they doubt the
capability of your D90 or Coil Series II, III, ask them why Jeep is 13
years behind the times in upgrading to the all around better coil
suspension!

        BTW, A note to the organizers of the 1996 Land Rover Winter Romp,
that was held last weekend here in Maine. Great job! The entire staff of
ECR had a blast. 10 inches of fresh and falling powder, a Rally, BBQ, Off
Roading in the snow in Maine, dinner, with live music, and a bunch of Land
Rovers, Range Rovers, and Disco's... What could be a better combination for
a great weekend. Also... thanks to everyone who stopped by the shop on
their way home, nice to see the familiar faces, and meet some new ones. I
thought it was a great weekend. Hope to see you all at the Off Road Day on
July 6th.

Mike Smith, East Coast Rover Co.

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 10:30:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Locking hubs in the LRO FAQ...Defender related

In a message dated 96-02-20 00:06:34 EST, you write:

John writes about needing ' a bit of forward and backward movement' to get
>his D90 Defender's centre diff unlocked.  My experience with the Defender
>110 is the same as it is for several other Defender owners that I know...
Phil R
>.
Thanks for the note Phil.
John "whichwayareyagoin'" Purnell

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 10:31:15 -0500
Subject: Re: less occupant injury in new cars (airbags)

I read in an industry newsletter that airbags were also killing the workers
that MADE them.  Seems TRW was having difficulty keeping employees around
when they had a problem with loading up the "ejector" cartridges...BOOM!....
 Production was halted for a few weeks, they re-engineered sumthin', and then
put another adv in the newspaper.

John, 94 D90, No airbags, No OBD2, No series style 4wd unit, No justice, No
peace

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 08:06:26 -0800
Subject: Re: less occupant injury in new cars 

On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil> 
wrote:

>	Of other note, has anyone thought about those automatic seatbelts that
>put the shoulder belt for you (but you have to remember to put on the lap 

belt).
>How many of you have forgotten to put on the lap belt because you felt the
>shoulder belt and thought your seatbelt was on?  There have been recorded
>cases of decaptitations as the body tries to slide under the should belt on 
>impact (the belt gets stuck under the chin and then rips the head off).  
>Cheery thoughts, eh?

I've seen some videos of GM (or Ford?) tests in the sixties with baboons and the 
shoulder-only style belts.  Lets just say that PETA would not be happy with what 
was shown on the film.  Either you get de-capitated by the belt as your hips and 
lower torso slide under the belt (remember center of gravity here) or your 
knees, hips and femur get shattered when they contact the lower dashboard.  
Bottom line, wear the damn lap belt.

Sorry about the non-rover content.

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 08:06:16 -0800
Subject: Re: Electrolysis, Alum

On Sat, 17 Feb 1996, MHKINGER@aol.com wrote:

>Does anyone know of a chemical which can be put on aluminum after it has been
>wire brushed and cleaned that will stop the corrosion process?

The aircraft industry uses Zinc Chromate primer...I believe it is an etching 
primer.  The problem from what I understand, is that its pretty nasty stuff for 
the 'ol environment so it isn't to readily available.  Anyone else know anything 
about it?

Eric

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@mail.biddeford.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:29:57 -0500
Subject: Re: unsubscribe

Original msg:
 -- [ From: Dick Hahn * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
 
 your system does not unsubscribe as directed.  I have received results of
 unsubscribe message but still receive e-mail

end original msg
_______________________________
For all who use EMC for their mailer, I find that the advertising text which it inserts 
before the message messes up the  Majordomo command reading, at least in my 
experience.  You get back a short reply but no results.  In found no way to 
elininate the prefix so switched to Pegasus mail, another free mailer.

Ron Franklin

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 08:47:27 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Re: NAS LRs in the UK

Based on what I've heard from the dealers here some of the final 
assembly of the NA LRs is performed in the US after receival at the 
docks.  If this is the case then it's probably not possible to pickup 
in the UK.

cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

Subject: Re: less occupant injury in new cars 
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 09:15:53 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

> Ben wrotes:
> > Personally, I don't like having an explosive sitting right in front of me. 
> > In my SIII, however, this is not an issue.  I always wear my seatbelt thoug

Tom Rowe wrote:
> Of course, in my LR, I'm sitting with an explosive under me.

	That's what passengers are for.  My passenger gets to sit on the 
explosive.  Kinda like a hot ejection seat.  :)

	I still believe that they best way to reduce accidents is to give
everyone but the driver a seatbelt and put a a 6 inch spike on the middle of
the steering wheel aimed at the driver's chest. 

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Subject: Re: less occupant injury in new cars (airbags) 
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 09:25:15 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199602201530.HAA09882@playground.sun.com>you wrote:

> I read in an industry newsletter that airbags were also killing the workers
> that MADE them.  Seems TRW was having difficulty keeping employees around
> when they had a problem with loading up the "ejector" cartridges...BOOM!....

	There are also problems with people stealing them out of cars.  The
problem being that when it goes boom, as they sometimes do, the tend to do 
things like remove the thumbs of the thief.   I wouldn't be surprised (in the 
US) if the thief could then sue you... 

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 12:26:19 -0500 (EST)
From: m8f@ornl.gov (M Scott Fugate)
Subject: Front Locking Hubs - Use 'Em

Recent commutes combining deep snow, slush, ice, and clear pavement have
convinced me of the usefulness of locking hubs.  As warming occurred and
more highway pavement became clear, I was able to run more and more at
highway speeds in 2wd.  I really was astonished  to find what a drag the
locked hubs made to engine power and economy.  I run 7.5x16 tires and an
overdrive, which makes for gearing which is about as tall as my 2.25l mill
can turn.  The added resistance of 4 U joints, 2 axles, and a prop shaft
spinning away needlessly is significant.  No empirical data is available,
but I really could feel significant reductions in highway speed, power and
fuel economy.

Conclusion:  If you drive mostly off pavement or at slow speeds, locking
hubs might not be of much benefit.  However, if you attempt to use your
Series Rover as a "normal" car (as most on this list at least sometimes do)
(un)locking hubs are a godsend.  Conserve energy - unlock your hubs!

Scott Fugate

1970 Series IIa 88
1989 RR

BT

------------------------------

From: jve@phaseone.dk
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 18:09:43 
Subject: 109 back on the road

YIEHAAAAAA !!!

After two weeks in my parents garage and one week in a workshop my 109 STW is 
now back on the road and I FEEL GOOD !!!

This was a major overhaul and I fixed some things that were needed and some 
things that I knew of but were less important.

What I did myself:

New cylinder head gasket
Tightened the flywheel housing bolts (yes, the gearbox must be taken off first)
New 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear wheels in the main gearbox
Three new bearings in the main gearbox
New Alternator
New Battery
Fixed the oil pressure lamp

Then I left the car at a workshop to have the brakes fixed while I was away 
skiing in Norway for a week. Now practically the whole brake system is renewed 
and my wonderful vehicle is ready for the snow that is jamming the whole country 
right now.

Yes, yes, yes ....

Just wanted to shout it out to all of you.

Happy rovering everyone.

Jens Vesterdahl
Copenhagen, Denmark

1972 109 sIII STW

Home page: http://inet.uni-c.dk/~spiff/Jens.html
 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 12:03:48 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: less occupant injury in new cars 

> Tom Rowe wrote:
> > Of course, in my LR, I'm sitting with an explosive under me.
> 	That's what passengers are for.  My passenger gets to sit on the 
> explosive.  Kinda like a hot ejection seat.  :)

Ah, true, but I have a reserve  bomb.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Guy Arnold <GUY@facade.adm.clarkson.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 14:00:34 EDT
Subject: Trans Labrador Highway

Has anyone else in upstate NY, eastern Canada or Vt thought about the 
post of the Trans-Labrator Highway?  I have gone fishing in northern 
Quebec every year for the past eight years and the idea of driving to 
Goosebay, Labrador is very interesting. I will probably never get a 
chance to drive the Alaskan Highway because of the time just to get to 
the start of the highway and it is not much of a challange these days 
anyway. I also would rather explore my own back yard first. I bet 
there is some great fishing along the way.

I think that I would only want to go one way and then take the ferry 
back from Goosebay, probably to Sept Iles, drive on to Montreal and 
on to the states. I don't like returning over the same road traveled 
once. I did check out the Web page on the Trans-Labrador Highway and 
it sounds like the is good enough condition so it would not be a 
Camel Trophy type trip. I am confident my 1973 Series III swb would 
make the trip especially since I hope to have an overdrive installed 
by this summer. If anyone has had similar thoughts about this trip e-
mail me directly and we can talk about it. It would be ideal to have 
three landrovers to make the trip.

Guy Arnold
1973 Series III swb
Clarkson UNiversity
Potsdam, NY 

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: The Birmabright Brotherhood
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 14:55:00 EST

Fellow Land Rover Digestors

Some potential members of the Birmabrite Brotherhood, BB for short, have 
expressed concerns about the BB list falling into the wrong hands and being 
abused. In attempting to allay these quite valid concerns we (Trevor Easton, 
Doug Scott and Eric  Zipkin) have developed a set of rules and etiquette for 
the BB list.

When travelling long distances or if circumstances prevent self help, it is 
a great security blanket to know that there may be someone willing and able 
to help near at hand.  Like carrying an umbrella when the sun is shining, 
the BB list may act as a lucky charm.

Here are the rules, and when you have looked them over we hope you will join 
us and the other list members.

 To those on the BB list already, I'll send an updated list early in March. 
If you need it sooner Email me directly.

****************************************************************************  
*******

Welcome to the Birmabright Brotherhood (BB)!  This is a listing of fellow 
Land Rover owners who have offered assistance to those owners waylayed by 
the Rover
Gods of Misfortune....translation, stranded far from home because their 
beloved lump of Birmabright is not being cooperative.

In order for this list to function more efficiently, A few rules of 
etiquette are proposed to be used when asking for assistance from a fellow 
BB member.  This will hopefully help to reduce the instances of people 
getting "taken".

1.  This list is for the use of the list members only.  In order to ask for 
help from someone on the list, you must be on the list as well.  Naturally, 
if you  are travelling with or come across someone in need of help who is 
not on the list, you may go to the list for help.  You must remember, 
however, that as the  recommending' list member, you are partially 
responsible for the actions of that person.

2. This list is not for commercial purposes.  This doesn't mean that you 
can't put your business on the list, though.  It means that the list is not 
to be used for commercial mailings or announcements.  In addition, if you 
are affiliated with a Car oriented business, please note it on your listing. 

3.  Aid to a list member is completely voluntary.  No one is required to 
help another list member, although they probably always will.

4.  Beyond the bare nescessities of aid, don't ask for things that you know 
are a hardship for someone.  If they can afford to offer it, they will do 
so.

5.  Pay, or at least offer to pay, for any part or service you use.  By the 
same token, we've all been stranded because of a problem with our Rovers, so 
we're not going to gouge each other, right?

6. A thank you note, either on the 'net or by snail mail is always nice.

7. Advise members of people who are taking advantage of others and offer 
Kudos to those who go above and beyond the call of duty. Your mailing should 
include the list members Email addresses, add these to your address book as 
a group. Please preface the subject line in all mailings regarding the 
"Birmabright Brotherhood" with the letters BB.

8. Full addresses have been deleted from the list to protect members from 
unexpected visitors/mail. If you need a members address contact them by 
'phone or Email directly.

9. Information on the list has been cut and pasted from your own post with 
minimal editing to fit. Please check your entry for errors/omissions.Keep 
the list up to date. Errors, changes or deletions should be sent to Trevor 
Easton, teaston@dqc2.dofasco.ca, the current "Keeper of the List"

10. Please protect the integrity of this list. Keep it for your own benefit. 
Don't forward it to non members.

11. Land Rover Owners who do not have Email access are accepted on this list 
as Auxiliary members. The above rules apply and in addition they must be 
"sponsored" by an Email member under whose name they will be listed.(++++ 
separator instead of ******) Auxiliary members will obtain their copy of the 
list from their sponsor.

AND NOW THE SMALL PRINT (CYA)as required by our unfortunately litigious 
society.
12.THIS LIST IS PROVIDED AS A SERVICE TO LAND ROVER OWNING LIST MEMBERS. 
INCLUSION IN THIS LIST DOES NOT IMPLY ANY OBLIGATION TO ASSIST, NEITHER DOES 
IT IMPLY ANY MECHANICAL KNOWLEDGE OR ABILITY. ASSISTANCE IS PROVIDED PURELY 
AS A GENTLEMANS AGGREEMENT BETWEEN THE COMMUNICATING PARTIES AT THE TIME OF 
CONTACT. THE COMPILERS, EDITORS AND MEMBERS OF THIS LIST ACCEPT NO 
RESPONSIBILITY FOR ITS  ACCURACY, ELECTRONIC TRANSMISSION OR FOR ANY 
CONSEQUENCES ARISING FROM INCLUSION ON OR USE OF THE LIST.

Well, I'm sure there is a lot more to say.  Just remember, you could be on 
the other end someday.  Keep that in mind when you either offer or ask for 
help.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 16:58:35 -0500
From: Shaun Carrigan <shaunc@infi.net>
Subject: Re:  diagnosing RR's?

Can't be much help on the questions re: diagnotics but my experience 
with an 88 RR at 133,000 mi and counting is that fuel injection has not 
been a problem. Water pump, alternator, seat switches and other sundry 
mechanicals, yes. Not to mention mysterious blinking indicators that 
come and go (usually right after you buy but before you mount the 
suspected sending unit.) But these problems are reparable by any 
reasonably competent mechanic or patient diy'er. The Rover has never 
failed to start except once when the coil went bad and a time or two 
when I let it run out of gas. This is supposed to be a no-no for a fuel 
injected system but I never had a problem getting it going. 

The mild Tennessee climate undoubtedly helps, but I've started it at 10 
below a time or two with no problem (thankfully have a strong battery). 
We were in the Smokies this weekend, two feet plus of white stuff and 
ice at higher elevations, and had a great time--passed a Cherokee on 
Newfound Gap Road that had spun out and rear ended gracefully into the 
trees.

In short, if you plan to maintain your vehicle and know how to watch for 
signs of trouble, I wouldn't sweat the electronics *too* much.

Shaun Carrigan

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Whines
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 10:04:38 -0500

EvanD103@aol.com writes:

> I hate to complain about what may be a normal characteristic of my newly
> restored '73 Ser. III 88, but the noise produced by my transfer case is
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> restored '73 Ser. III 88, but the noise produced by my transfer case is
> driving me crazy.  Above about 40 mph the noise is quite intolerable.  Not

A while ago I saw something on this list about about one of the screws at 
the back of the transmission tunnel at the passenger side, hitting a 
lever and causing a vibration.  It costs nothing to try.

--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: More for the $$$ data base
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 13:25:59 -0800

After driving my recently maintained Disco around for a day, I have to
say, I'm impressed. The previously "leisurely" brakes now stop when they
are told to stop. The motor goes when it's told to go and as mentioned
previously, does all this without the suspension making any noises. I
stopped back at the dealer and asked what the secret was and they said
the just did the normal maintenance--changed the brake fluid, cleaned
the plugs and distributor, changed the oil, etc. (the list was 3 pages
long) I just wish I'd done this sooner.

<previous message>
>For those of you collecting such statistics, I just got my Disco back
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>does seem to run better, I'm not sure if it's because of anything they
>did or because my wallet's $270 lighter. 
<end message>
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

From: David_R._Bobeck_at_USHMM@INETGATE.ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 16:24:41 EST
Subject: My fun weekend.

     Greetings all
     
     Just returned from the wonderful city of Boston. Didn't take the Rover 
     this time for various reasons. Of course, since I didn't take the 
     Rover I got to pass two Series vehicles while riding in my Honda. 
     Never ahppens when I'm in the Rover. One was a pastel green (just like 
     mine) Series III 88" parked on Mass Ave. in Cambridge, near MIT. On my 
     way back to check it out the driver got in and drove away. Had to 
     catch up to him (not much problem there) and ask a few questions. 
     Watched it bounce all the way up to Harvard Square where we parted 
     ways...Bye... The other was an odd looking 88 with "cut-away" wings 
     which was bopping down Newbury Street. Sooooo trendy. Fess up whoever 
     you are... I think that was Saturday or Sunday afternoon. It had some 
     interesting light gaurds on the rear lights. Maybe military. Monday 
     saw me at Alan Richer's doorstep, checking out Churchill and talking 
     shop. No homebrews around so I left:-) Actually Churchill is quite a 
     rig, complete with very "macho" walnut dash panels. I like, I like. 
     Then it was off to Mark Talbot's to retireve my pile of goodies before 
     they ended up buried under the snow again. The plan was to toss the 
     rear body tub(!) onto the roof of the Civic(!) and drive the 500 miles 
     to DC. Well, the tub wasn't quite what I'd been after (read: more work 
     to prep that one for painting than to simply repair mine) so I figured 
     it wasn't really worth turning my car into a hanglider. . . So. The 
     final take was: front and rear springs, air filter, all sorts of rare 
     lights, one roof side, a spare tire and wheel, a radiator, and oh darn 
     I frogot something. Mark if you read this can you post me the heater 
     blower...
     Anyway thanks for reading this and Cheers, to Mark and Alan I'll buy 
     you all a beer when I get a chance.
     
     Dave
     Burleith LRC
     "off-road is our specialty" 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 15:39:05 GMT -0600
Subject: winch for sale

This was posted on the 4x4 newsgroup. I don't know anything more 
about it, other than it looks like a good price.

For  Sale:
Tulsa Braden PTO driven winch
never used or installed
excellent condition
complete with drive shafts
no cable
12, 000+lbs rating

$700
e-mail me for more info

Tom Liba<io11265@maine.maine.edu>
U.Maine Forest Fire Attack Team
Penobscot Valley Hot Shots

-------------end forwarded message-------------------

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 16:54:30 -0500
Subject: Discovery Bush Bars

Matt writes "I installed a Rovers North front hitch receiver for Discovery on
my '88 
Range Rover this weekend, and I learned something interesting.  My bush bar, 
which is stock and probably similar to most other classic RR bush bars, 
attaches to the OUTSIDE of the frame rails.  It was apparent from the 
spacing on the hitch receiver that it was expecting the bush bar to fit on 
the INSIDE of the frame rails.  I stopped by the dealer this morning and 
confirmed that stock Discovery bush bars attach to the inside of the rails.
 "

Funny... when I ordered my receiver, RN said that the bush bars also attach
to the outside of the rails... and I thought that the last Disco I *quickly*
looked at was attached to the outside.  I made a choice that the reciever was
needed more than the bush bars although it appears that I may be able to
mount both.  

I'm not disputing what Matt states but can anyone else verify where the bars
mount?  Are they inside-mounts or outside mounts relative to the rails?
 Innies or outies?

Thanks...
Gerry "Phoenix AZ" Elam

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 22:57:45 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Radio for PTO

Tom Rowe wrote:
Subject: Re: Series Owners - New Use for PTO
?????? I'm confused here. Why not just hook it up to your auto 
electrical system? Or hook a little electric motor to one of the hand 
crank varity? It would be alot cheaper than a PTO unit.

Tom - I'm shocked! Why do it the easy way when there is a hard and expensive 
way? Do you own a Series vehicle or are you an outsider? Really! Next thing 
we will hear about is how practical electrical winches are compared to 
capstan winches... What is this world coming to?

The US military (as well as others I suppose) had hand cranked radios 
in the 2nd world war.
Tom Rowe

Hard to believe for me. The Austrian Army used everything the US occupation 
forces did not care to take home with them when they left in 1955, and I 
never heard of a hand cranked radio, although I was in signals. And we would 
have loved it, too, because our radio batteries were issued according to the 
budget situation, not according to the state of the batteries in the radio. 
Are you sure you are not confusing this with the hand-cranked telephones? 
Any more info? I am genuinely interested.
Peter Hirsch
Still Radioless SI 107in S/W (expecting a sibling in a few months)
Vienna, Austria

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 22:57:48 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Zenith carburetters

David Scott wrote:
> He looked at a Zenith carb I brought and said it was =
>not rebuildable, the base was worn where the the trottle goes through =
>it.  Does anyone know if you can buy just the base?
Possible suppliers for Zenith carbs and parts in the UK:

Burlen Fuel Systems
Tel. (UK) 1722 412500
Fax  (UK) 1722 334221

Greenways Carburettor Reconditioning
Tel. (UK) 1749 860267
Fax (UK) 1749 860042

Carburettor Exchange
Tel (UK) 1525 371369

Dingocroft
Tel (UK) 1494 448367
Fax (UK) 1494 459964

No personal experience with any of them. Good luck
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria

------------------------------

From: Simon Barclay <sbar@jna.com.au>
Subject: Swivel housing removal (Series 1)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 08:54:00 EST

I'm trying to remove the swivel ball from the housing, as the whole unit 
requires a major overhaul.  The whole lot is siting on the floor and I have 
removed the retaining collar (axle side) the one that bolts on, but have 
been unable to remove the one under this which seems (from the workshop 
manual) just to be a press fit just and retains the seal.  Looks like the 
thing has seized.

I have had it soaking in WD40 for over a month.  (I've been 
striping/rebuilding other things in this time, not just waiting for this you 
understand.)   Any way last night I though I would have another go, so I can 
finally fix it and start reassembling the thing, but no change.  I cleaned 
it up with a wire brush and tried to lever them apart but still no go.  I 
pulled a large gear puller apart and tried to lever from the inside, using 
the swivel ball as the pivot point that but nothing moved.

Any one got any ideas please???  Maybe some heat, maybe I've miss read the 
manual??

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 14:19:21 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Manifold cooking

> I've been cooking on the manifold for years.  

I've only been doing it a short while, but I will testify it works great. 
 (You do have to turn stuff or it will burn on one side.)  I've found 
that loaf pans (esp. the Aluminum disposable ones) can be made to fit 
nicely betwixt the Carb and Valve cover.  One of these days, I'll tie one 
down permanent, then it's just a matter of wrapping <whatever> and 
tossing it in the pan.  

And you normally don't even need to tie stuff down, unless you like your 
meat *really* rare...  8^)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 14:20:06 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: BB list

> > There is, btw, a listing like the Birmabright Brotherhood; it's the 
> > membership roster of the LROA. 
>       True, but will LROA extend this list out to the general public?

I don't know (being nothing more than a loud-mouthed member), but I think 
it's supposed to be members only.  At least, that's what I've been 
assuming.  

But it's still worth having.  (I still believe it's worth being a member. 
 It's the optomist in me, eh?)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Radio for PTO
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 14:34:11 -0800

Tom Rowe said:
>The US military (as well as others I suppose) had hand cranked radios 
>in the 2nd world war.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>I 
>never heard of a hand cranked radio, although I was in signals. 
That's easy,  obviously the US Army realized the value of hand-cranked
radios over batteries, too,  and took them all. :-)
Seriously, though, the hand-cranked radios were most commonly (if not
exclusively) found in aircrew survival kits. I believe some kits still
provide them, though battery and radio technology has come along way in
the past 40 years. Considering the juice (i.e. watts) required to run
the radios back then, you got quite a work-out on the old crank when
transmitting. 
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/      Battery powered radios only

>The US military (as well as others I suppose) had hand cranked radios 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 17:45:10 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Zenith inlets

For those of you mucking about with Zenith carbs (Jeremy), there is one 
major caveat.  The fuel inlet tube is 'sweated' in place, but not very well, 
it turns out.  Mine came out whilst trying to refit the fuel line hose, and 
I re-attached it with PC-7 epoxy.  Another of the club chaps
had his come loose driving downtown. :-0  Fortunately, he smelled petrol and 
shut down before he became 'roti de rover'.  So, if you have the
Zenith (of recent manufacture) check the inlet pipe for tightness.  If it 
comes loose, I'm sure you won't like the consequences.  Cheers
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Discovery Bush Bars
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 14:53:21 -0800

>Funny... when I ordered my receiver, RN said that the bush bars also
>attach
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>to
>mount both.  
On My '95 Discovery with a (useless, Genuine Parts) brush bar, I just
confirmed that the mounts are on the INSIDE of the frame rails. The
bumper brackets go around the end of the frame rail (i.e. are on both
sides) so you may have seen that. (Ugly ascii art follows) After owning
one for a while, I would place very LOW expectations on  the G.P.
brushbar. It's very light weight, you can't tow from it even though it
has tow eyes. It's really only good for looks and holding 2 driving
lights. It needs a brace/mount on the top of the bumper to give it some
strength, then it might be OK for towing/pulling. But off the rack, it's
pretty lame. I put the original tow loop back on so I'd have a
reasonable front tow/pull point. Also, I dont' think the front receiver,
and the brush bar are compatible since the brush bar has a crossbar just
below the bumper level, right about where the receiver would go. I think
you were correct  in your original assesment, the receiver is much more
functional. Just my $.02. 

Top view of front Disco frame

 ------+----
 -----+|
 Frame||  	
 -----+|
 ------+---- Left Bumper Mount
 ==========	Left Brush Bar mount
   ^
   +--mounting bolts go here
   v
 ==========	Right Brush Bar mount
 ------+---- Right Bumper Mount
 -----+|
 Frame||  	
 -----+|
 ------+---- 
     

>Funny... when I ordered my receiver, RN said that the bush bars also

------------------------------

From: Administrator_at_GSA-2P__1@ccgate1.gsa.gov
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 14:42:02 est
Subject: Message not deliverable

Has anyone else in upstate NY, eastern Canada or Vt thought about the 
post of the Trans-Labrator Highway?  I have gone fishing in northern 
Quebec every year for the past eight years and the idea of driving to 
Goosebay, Labrador is very interesting. I will probably never get a 
chance to drive the Alaskan Highway because of the time just to get to 
the start of the highway and it is not much of a challange these days 
anyway. I also would rather explore my own back yard first. I bet 
there is some great fishing along the way.

I think that I would only want to go one way and then take the ferry 
back from Goosebay, probably to Sept Iles, drive on to Montreal and 
on to the states. I don't like returning over the same road traveled 
once. I did check out the Web page on the Trans-Labrador Highway and 
it sounds like the is good enough condition so it would not be a 
Camel Trophy type trip. I am confident my 1973 Series III swb would 
make the trip especially since I hope to have an overdrive installed 
by this summer. If anyone has had similar thoughts about this trip e-
mail me directly and we can talk about it. It would be ideal to have 
three landrovers to make the trip.

Guy Arnold
1973 Series III swb
Clarkson UNiversity
Potsdam, NY 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 18:52:52 -0500 (EST)
From: rovah@agate.net (John Cassidy IV)
Subject: '91 Transmission in '87 RR

    I hope someone out there can answer this for me.  Will an automatic
transmission out of a 1991 RR bolt directly into/onto my stock 1987
RR(which has an automatic transmission as well)?  I have the opportunity to
purchase such a unit and would like to have the viscous center differential
lock as well as a transmission with lower miles on it.
    For those of you who have been following my thread on Chevy conversions
in RR's; Sarry at Mark's in Australia says that by this coming fall, they
will be supplying an adapter plate that will allow the use of a Chevy
engine with the original RR automatic transmission.  Currently, you have to
switch to a Chevy Turbo 400 transmission to make the swap.
Cheers!   John Cassidy   Bangor, Maine USA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 18:53:00 -0500 (EST)
From: rovah@agate.net (John Cassidy IV)
Subject: Re: Tranny

>Hi John.
>I just talked to the Rover guy: the x-fer case lever
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>go down there to get it.
>Please let me know, we should try to close this fairly soon.
>Jan

Jan,
        What's the total price, including "shipping."  Will this guy down
South put that "buyer protection" statement into writing and give me a
receipt?  Answer these two questions and I'll give you a definite response
within a couple of days of hearing back from you.  I have to post to the
list to make sure this thing will just "drop-into" my current vehicle, but
I'm quite sure it will.
        All Range Rover automatic transmissions do lock up, some lock up
manually, and some lock up automatically, like the one he has does.
Locking the center differential guarantees equal power(50/50) to both the
front and rear axles despite tire slip.  This greatly increases "traction"
over stock 4x4's without this feature.
      Thanks for all of your work to assure my safety in all of this; I
know you're in the same position!
Cheers!   John

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 20 Feb 96 19:11:24 EST
Subject: Re: Radio for PTO

Peter,

Yes indeed a hand-cranked generator radio/radio power generator did exist in 
the US Army and Navy inventory.

The first and most famous of these was the Gibson Girl transmitter, so called 
because its exterior frame was curvy like a pinup queen. It was the standard 
emergency transmitter packed in lifeboats and liferafts, with either a kite, 
balloon or other sort of antenna.

Turning the crank activated the transmitter, either to be keyed with the Morse 
key mounted on top or set to automatically send the distress metacharacter...- 
- - ... automatically with the crank also. These transmitted on 500KHZ for as 
long as your muscles could crank (which wasn't long - the damn things are HARD 
to crank).

Another thing available in the American inventory as well was the generator 
bench. I don't have the exact figures and data here (haven't seen one in 20 
years) , but it was a 3-legged bench with a pedal or hand crank generator 
mounted at one end. This then plugged into one of the old manpack radios in 
place of the battery box to provide portable power when you ran out of dry 
cells..... another one that was DAMN hard to crank because of the gearing 
needed to get decent generator rotor speed out of a slow cranking system.

In case you're thinking I'm older than God, let me starte up fron that I'm 37, 
with a tase for WWII history and a ham radio operator.

I've actually owned both of these rigs at one time or another, and actually 
used the manpack radio with generator as a Field Day rig one year when I was 
young, stupid and far better muscled than I am now...<grin>

    Yours, Al Richer/N1TWY/ex-WA1YHY 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 01:44:15 +0100
From: sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt)
Subject: Thanks to lro----Range Rover question

Hi folks out there,
todays morning I was happy that I subscribed LRO. After a nice weekend in
the mud with some friends my transmission brake was frozen on my RR. After
starting the car itwont move not forward nor backwards. Even in low range no
move. I locked the diff and tried again-no move but an other kind of
movement. Ah- I remembered the frozen transmission brake mails on lro.
Because of fear to tear the brake shoes apart I let the engine idling and
tried to give some pressure to the brake lever in order to get it free. It
didnot work, so I took my girlfriends Golf(Rabbit in US) and made the
shopping. Returning home I tried again, and I think the warmth of the engine
got the break free. So I left the car with disengaged brake in the parking=
 lot.
Maybe the wading (yes I do) made it wet or the pressure cleaner at the gas
station, but it was over zero (celsius).
So thanks to the folks who wrote about that problems as one example of
knowledge I got from the digest, beside many others....
After this weekend I need a new rear bumperedge, ironically I ordered two of
the pre 86 ones a few days ago, because I anticipated that it would might
happen one day, but as soon ? :-))
TeriAnn- I take my Range Rover to what comes naturally....even some of my
friends drive series I have still some with Rangies who join the tours :-)
but to be honest it is a diesel two door with no eletronic gimmicks or power
locks/windows, so the petrol powered series owners have more fear of water
as I have (only for their cars).
But I have two other questions- first does anybody know who manfactured the
front bumper/bullbar for the Great divide Range Rovers in US ? They look
like the one from ARB, which is interesting because the winch mount is
better for ground clearance. Maybe they are available in UK ?
Second question my generator light starts to light at low revs (not bright
but remarkable) and goes out if the engine rotates faster. I suspect the
regulator but a friend mentioned that this is a common sign if the brushes
of the alternator are worn out. Could someone enlighten me on these subjects=
 ?
Thanks Kurt

Kurt.Reinhardt@unidui.uni-duisburg.de
Gerhard Mercartor Universit=E4t Duisburg
FB 1/11 Philosophie/Physik
Voice 0049 201 297876
************************************
   _/  _/        _/_/_/              _/_/_/           
  _/_/         _/                    _/_ _/            
_/   _/ urt    _/_/ hristian  _/    _/ einhardt
************************************

------------------------------

From: Inkornoink@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 20:02:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Emissions Test -  PASS

Just got home after a hard day of work.  Earlier today, I took Moby (1990 RR
c) to one of Illinois Clean Air Team Tesing Centres (nice spelling, huh).  I
apologized to her profusely afterwards for doubting her ability to pass.  She
did with flying colors.

Here is my querry:

She scored a 14.96% on the CO+CO2 Test.  They told me she must exceed 6%. She
obviously did  -- but what does this mean?

HC (PPM) needed to be lower than 220 ;  She scored 008  -- again what does
this mean?

Lastly, CO% needed to be less than 1.20%  -- she scored .01%  --still don't
understand??

I did not look a gift horse in the mouth while at the testing centre  -
simply said thank you and went on my way.  And, now that I am home -- I am
simply curious.  If you know the answers, I'd welcome them.  If you don't,
that's ok too  -- I am sleeping sound tonight regardless.

Here's to a happier planet.

Hank

------------------------------

From: lvale@telepac.pt (Luis Vale)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 01:11:30 GMT

unsubscribe lro-digest

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 20:32:29 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: Number?

At 02:09 PM 2/19/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear All,
>        Can someone please send me the phone number for Auto Master in VT?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>        Thanks.
>Mike Smith, East Coast Rover Co.
Automaster is in Shelboure VT at 802-985-8411 or 800-639-8033.

I spent the day there Monday have my gas tank replaced.

Scott Goodwin, is the salesman who invited me over to drive the D110 in 1992
and sent me out in a new Disco and the new BMW (the people that bought
Rover) Z3 for long test drives.  

I also met Randy Adams who has a D90 for a demo.

In service, the LR service manager is Pat and the advisor on my RR yesterday
was Shane.  I left their cards in my office so I do not have their last
names handy.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport New Hampshire
603-863-7883

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 18:31:50 -0800
From: majordom (Majordomo)
Subject: So how _LITTLE_ is my LAnd Rover Worth ?

It seems that those cretins at the Mass. Dept. of Revenue, use book value by
default in accessing taxes, and it would seem that their book value for a 
1963 Land Rover is some $6800.   Now, if someone wanted to take myine off 
my hands, I'd be glad to pay the taxes accessed on me (and one them), but
this one isn't restored, and merely in decent condition, so they have
accessed $340 tax on a vehicle for which I paid a mere $790.  Seems a bit
high to me. 

If any of you stateside punters have copies of adverts for used land rovers
(short wheel base series II or IIa) in unrestored condition, then perhaps
you'd be kind enough to furnish the advertisement and source/date to me

Cheers,
 --Bill
(this is also a test of a new mailer gizmo 'bulk_mailer' whcih, hopefuly
will speed up the lethargic delivery of the list.  At the moment it has
been applied to real-time lro and lro-digest and uk-lro-digest, unless 
it blows up tonight.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 16:53:08 GMT
From: Gerald Tan <gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Unlocking the central diff-lock

As taught to me by the Land Rover Experience tutor:

When trying to dis-engage the central diff, you move the lever to "unlock", and 
the diff lock light still stays on. This is because the diff lock components are 
still strained (usually due to some wind up present). Some people favour 
stopping, and reversing a few yards, and this normally eases the components 
enough to allow the pin to spring back.

There is an alternative method (very useful say when going from snow-packed 
motorway (freeway) to dry tarmac on the move.

1. De-select diff-lock.
2. Reduce speed enough to engage a lower gear (2nd is quite good).
3. Lift off the throttle completely, and then floor it. 2 secs on, 3 secs off.
4. Repeat step 3 until diff lock light extinguishes.

Somewhere in that free-travel, the diff-lock pin will find equilibrium, and 
pop-out. It normally works after 3 attempts.

Gerald.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Gerald Tan    EMail gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk                              |
| Purely my own opinions - not those of my employer                       |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Subject: Mass. charged me 46% sales tax on my 1963 Land Rover !
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 22:03:09 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>

Y'all been paying too much for your used Land Rovers....
OR: How much (little)  is my Land-Rover worth? 

	1963 Land Rover Series II (a?)
		Right Hand Drive
		Chassis mended
		Mechanicals work, but vehicle has been sitting for two years
		Engine: uses quart of oil per 100 miles, has bottem end rap 
		Paint ok
		Assorted rusted door posts, frames, mud sheilds and other 
		parts needing mending.
		Previoiusly Owned by dodgy mechanic who never fixed it 
		Accepted value at port of entry by US Customs: $800.

It seems that those cretins at the Mass. Dept. of Revenue, use ``book'' value
in accessing sales taxes, and it would seem that their book value for a 
1963 Land Rover is some $6800. 

Now, if someone wanted to take my this beast off of my hands for $6800,
I'd be glad to pay the taxes accessed on me (and on them). But this 
not-so-fine example is NOT restored, and merely, as we say, 'a runner'.
(I don't even think there is a sucker on this list who'd pay $6800, but 
hey, prove me wrong !)

So the DOR has accessed $363.11 sales tax on a vehicle for which I paid a
mere $790 (500GBP).  Thus this effective tax rate of 46% seems a bit high
to me, in the land of ~5% sales tax. 
	For comparison, US Customs at entry 60 days ago, accepted the value
	as $800, and charged me duty accordingly. 

If any of you stateside punters have copies of adverts for used land rovers
(short wheel base series II or IIa) in unrestored condition, with prices below
the moon, then perhaps you'd be kind enough to furnish the advertisement
and source/date to me at the address below.

Maybe one of the news stations would be interested in this...  Either that
or I'll have to go find Governer Weld's Tea Chests and toss 'em into the
Harbour. 

	Ciao,
	  Bill caloccia@OpenMarket.com

                http://www.OpenMarket.com/personal/caloccia/

	Open Market, Inc.		http://www.OpenMarket.com/
	245 First Street
	Cambridge, Ma. 02142  USA

	tel:	+1 617 374 6579
	fax:	+1 617 252 3492

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 21:57:07 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: less occupant injury in new cars

At 09:07 PM 2/19/96 -0800, you wrote:
>I've heard that airbags don't do any good unless you hit them square on.
>That's why it's important to have shoulder harness seat belts.  I'm not sure
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
>	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 23 lines)]
>>    rate" is higher as some fraction of the lowered fatality rate.
>>    Duncan
Seat belts are not required here in "LIVE FREE OR DIE" New Hampshire,
neither is auto insurance.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport New Hampshire (LIVE FREE OR DIE is the motto on our license plates)
603-863-7883
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 21:57:11 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: less occupant injury in new cars (airbags) 

At 09:25 AM 2/20/96 -0800, you wrote:
>In message <199602201530.HAA09882@playground.sun.com>you wrote:

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)]
> from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
> Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie
Whether we like airbags or not it appears they are here to stay.  The new
cheap jeep has them and from the talk here about the return of Defenders in
1997 they will have them also.

We have one in our GMC and the section on the airbag (or SIR (supplemental
inflatable restraint)as they call it) in the service (not operators) manual
is interesting reading.  These bags fire electronically but can maintain a
charge in a capacitor for several minutes after the battery is disconnected.
Airbags are designed to perform a certain task and probably perform that
task well, but as General Motors say with the "S" in SIR, it is designed to
be used with the seat belts and all the other safety features people shop
for in autos today.

Remember ABS brakes?  ABS brakes are not there to help you stop.  They are
there to allow you to control (steer) you auto while stopping.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport in New Hampshire where you can win millions because your 1989 Ford
Escort did not have airbags
603-863-7883

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 19:09:30 -0800
From: majordom (Majordomo)
Subject: test

test

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 19:12:27 -0800
From: jameson@ix.netcom.com (Kelly Jameson )
Subject: '72 88" For Sale

To anyone interested, my 1972 Series III 88" Land Rover is for sale.  
Green and Limestone.  Hardtop, Excellent (mostly new) Interior, 
Rebuitlt: Brakes, Transmission, Clutch.  New: Windshield, Overdrive, 
Tires, Window Tracks, and many other Genuine Parts.  Asking $10,000.  
Located in Dallas Texas.

Please email interest to: jameson@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

From: Simon Barclay <sbar@jna.com.au>
Subject: Re: Unlocking the central diff-lock
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 14:36:00 EST

Sometimes you might need to reverse more than a few yards (upto 400 maybe), 
and turning often helps speed up the process as well.

Simon
 ----------
From: LRO-Owner
Subject: Re: Unlocking the central diff-lock
Date: Tuesday, 20 February 1996 4:53PM

As taught to me by the Land Rover Experience tutor:

When trying to dis-engage the central diff, you move the lever to "unlock",
and the diff lock light still stays on. This is because the diff lock 
components
are still strained (usually due to some wind up present). Some people favour 

stopping, and reversing a few yards, and this normally eases the components
enough to allow the pin to spring back.

There is an alternative method (very useful say when going from snow-packed
motorway (freeway) to dry tarmac on the move.

1. De-select diff-lock.
2. Reduce speed enough to engage a lower gear (2nd is quite good).
3. Lift off the throttle completely, and then floor it. 2 secs on, 3 secs 
off.
4. Repeat step 3 until diff lock light extinguishes.

Somewhere in that free-travel, the diff-lock pin will find equilibrium, and
pop-out. It normally works after 3 attempts.

Gerald.
 --
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Gerald Tan    EMail gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk                              |
| Purely my own opinions - not those of my employer                       |
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 20:01:39 -0800
From: uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Clinton D. Coates)
Subject: Series to Defender Poseur Kit

On page 96 of the Feb Issue of Land Rover Owner International,
John Craddock has a "Convert your Land Rover to a Defender
Lookalike" kit for 220 pounds.  Presumable the V8 is not included
in the price!  :-)

Number is 0800 318579 for phone orders
01543 504818 fax
01543 577207 orders and enquiries

Good luck

--
 __x___x_  /    Clinton D. Coates  uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca    
|__|__|__\/__   
|     |   |_ |  *Emerson* 61 lwb pickup.....mostly runs
  (_)"""""(_)"  *If it doesn't leak, its not a Land Rover*

------------------------------

Date: 20 Feb 96 22:53:31 EST
From: Paul.Smail@Washcoll.EDU (Paul Smail)
Subject: Diesels and Imports

Two quick questions for the Rover gurus:

1. Why are diesel engines (non-turbos), even with their lack of horsepower and
torque, preferred for heavy off-road use?

2. Do you have any advice for importing Series Land Rovers? Both Land Rover
Owner International and Land Rover World list in their classifieds sections
businesses which "specialize" in "USA exports." What considerations must be
taken as far as taxes and laws?

Thanks,

Paul Smail 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 20:07:29 -0800
From: uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Clinton D. Coates)
Subject: Tyres

I have been using Kumho somethings for 20K now and think they are
great.  Putting them on was like getting power steering.  They
are a compromise tread for highway and moderate off road work.
So far I have not gotten stuck (i use my truck for bush work in
winter and summer) and they are super grippy on glare ice 
winter logging roads and slushy unplowed (1-2 foot) deep snow.

Many of the loggers and engineers using the same roads last 
summer swithced to Hankook tires.  They seemed to be the only 
ones that stood up well to the constant beating that these
guys put their trucks through.  The tread pattern is similar
to the Kumhos and works just as well off road ( i followed
a Mazda pickup through a lot of really hairy stuff-it even
towed 3/4 ton fords and chevys out of snow ditches...never
had to touch emerson though)

Hope this is helpful

CDC

--
 __x___x_  /    Clinton D. Coates  uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca    
|__|__|__\/__   
|     |   |_ |  *Emerson* 61 lwb pickup.....mostly runs
  (_)"""""(_)"  *If it doesn't leak, its not a Land Rover*

------------------------------

From: twei@mail.eye.utmem.edu (Ted Wei, Jr.)
Subject: Help! Leaking from Alpine windows in a Discovery!
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 22:16:38 +0000

Ever since purchasing my Discovery, after a bad rain storm I find a stream
of water coming out of the speaker and the lower light fixture on the rear
passenger pillar.  Anyone have similar problems?  I've had the car in the
shop three times now, twice they looked and readjusted, the third they
replaced the whole seal in the passenger alpine windows.  Just this morning
after a night of storms I find the load space carpet wet (should have
gotten the rubber one!) and water coming out the speaker AGAIN!!!  Called
the dealer, he can't see me til next week (hope it doesn't rain again till
then).

Any recommendations on what recourse I can take?
Is this dealership in Memphis (Bluff City British Cars) just incompetent?
What goes into sealing the Alpine windows?
How hard can this be?

Other than that, I love my Discovery, wet carpets, misaligned doors, gas
millage and all!!!

Ted Wei, Jr.

twei@mail.eye.utmem.edu
University of Tennessee, Memphis

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 23:14:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Series Brake Shoes (tapped holes original)

>The set screws you mention may have been added by a PO. All the Series
brakes
>I have seen with this retaining plate have used a very course self-tapping
>type
>screw all be it with a hex head (3/8 I seem to remember but it's been a
>while)
>Hence none of the suppliers stock should have pre-tapped holes.

My '60 SII had tapped holes in the brake shoes. I'd guess that the self
tappers are a later switch.

David Cockey
Rochester, MI

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Help! Leaking from Alpine windows in a Discovery!
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 20:35:43 -0800

>Any recommendations on what recourse I can take?
>Is this dealership in Memphis (Bluff City British Cars) just
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>gas
>millage and all!!!
The rear door of my Discovery was not mounted correctly when I bought it
(and leaked like the proverbial sieve). The dealer tried to fiddle with
it, to no avail, so they scheduled it for a trip to a body shop (that
was covered under the warranty) where the door was aligned correctly. 
Assuming the dealer is honestly trying, I suspect they are limited as to
how much they can do body-wise since some body work requires specialized
tools & technicians. You might try convincing the dealer to send it to a
body shop since previous attempts have failed (under warranty, of
course) and get it fixed once and for all.
Good luck.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU
(and leaked like the proverbial sieve). The dealer tried to fiddle with

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 00:15:38 -0500
Subject: D90 Flooding, and Misc.

My D90 flooded again this morning and  wouldn't start.  This has happened a
few times before but it seems worse when the weather warms up a bit, today
was almost 50F.  I removed 3 plugs and indeed they were soaked in fuel.  I
cleaned them off and finally got it started after much cranking.

Also, the plugs looked fouled and had deposits on them already, after 15K.
 Will replace, but am ever the more convinced that the truck is running quite
rich.  My first reason to think this was the tailpipe...after only a couple
thousand miles I could really see the soot.  

In searching around the engine bay, I found the air intake hose from the MAF
sensor (air flow sensor) loose, and the clamp barely hanging on.  This may be
the reason for my yellow service light on telling my about my bad idle air
control valve--no wonder the IAC valve couldn't compensate...there was an air
leak after the sensor.  I'm gonna reset the light and see if it comes on
again, now that I retightened that hosing.  

Also, the CTS (coolant temp sensor) plug was loose.  I am hoping that that
may be the flooding problem.  If the ECU is being told wrong temps, or an
open circuit, it may go to full choke  enrichment or limp-home mode and
possibley be feeding too much fuel for a cold start on such a warm day.  

I also experience a slight stumble around 2800 rpm at part throttle.  I see
on my truck that the spark plug cable next to the oil dip stick scabbard is
worn from vibrating right against the scabbard.  I am hoping this is causing
a misfire at slight throttle. Simple enough to replace and/ or insulate the
wire from chafing.  

Even though I have only 3 more hood openings before my hood release cable
permanently releases, I just absolutely love the darn truck...flooding and
all.  I'm just waiting for that first 60F day so I can take off the doortops
again...

John, #1336  , Wisco90

------------------------------

From: amaravil@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 00:51:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Help! Leaking from Alpine windows in a Discovery!

>Ever since purchasing my Discovery, after a bad rain storm I find a stream
>of water coming out of the speaker and the lower light fixture on the rear
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)]
>twei@mail.eye.utmem.edu
>University of Tennessee, Memphis

I had the same problem as well with water coming out of the speaker.  But  I 
brought it in and the tightened some screws I guess and the problem seemed 
to have disappeared.  (Knock on wood). Actually the tightened the speaker 
and something else outside. As for the Alpine windows leaking mine seem fine.

Oh does anyone have a problem with water coming in under the glove 
compartment after bringing it through a car wash  or even washing the car by 
hand.  It doesn't do it when it rains, even when it rains hard. 
Thanks,
John Maravilla
'95 Bronze Discovery

------------------------------

From: jve@phaseone.dk
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 09:27:44 
Subject: Re: 4-wheel high?

Hi Richard and welcome to the list.

Yeah, I know the problem. I had it on my first 109 some years back. Though I 
don't remember exactly what the cause was, I can tell you this.

When you depress the yellow knob, it lifts a small rod up from the gearbox at 
the front prop shaft so that a spring in the front transfer box moves a gear 
wheel to engage the front prop shaft. Either this spring is broken or something 
is stuck inside the front transfer box.
If you remove the seat base, you can actually work on the front transfer box 
without taking out the whole gearbox. There is not much room there but it is 
possible. The inside of the front transfer box is not that complicated, but I 
guess you should eyeball a service manual before taking the things apart.
I can send you a copy of the pages from the sIII manual if you want.

Happy rovering

Jens Vesterdahl
Copenhagen, Denmark

1972 109 sIII STW

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 11:08:42 +0200
From: bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton)
Subject: Series Brake Shoes

>Even the genuine shoes are like this, but they come with two self tapping
>screws. It takes a little work to get them started, but I have never had much
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>tap through the holes first.Works a treat,and you *do* have the retaining
>tab to make sure the self tappers dont self untap!
 Our Landies have 2 little bolts (not screws) that hold the "banjo" on the shoe.
>No idea what the banjo is for,though.
 DO NOT ASSEMBLE THE BRAKE SHOES WITHOUT THE BANJO !
 The banjo is to stop the trailing shoes from binding and locking in the drums.

Cheers, Brian Cotton
bcotton@lia.co.za
South Africa

Try this URL   http://www.lia.co.za/users/bcotton/
fore some info on the LROC of SA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 17:00:17 GMT
From: Gerald Tan <gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Airbags

Airbags are classes as SRS (Supplementry Restraint Systems). Therefore they MUST 
be used in conjuction with seat belts in order to function correctly. And DON'T 
use a rearward facing child seat in conjuction with an airbag.

Gerald.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Gerald Tan    EMail gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk                              |
| Purely my own opinions - not those of my employer                       |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 13:05 CAT
From: basil@ovisun.ovi.ac.za (Basil Allsopp)

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote on Mon, 19 Feb 1996:

>You need to be stationary to shift between hi and lo ranges.  You can shift
>into hi range 4WD on the fly But if I remember correctly, your speed should
>be low.

This is actually not true.  You can switch into high range 4WD on the fly
at any speed as long as no wheels are actually spinning freely, ie have not
lost traction.  You just push down the yellow knob.  It's best to partially
ease up on the throttle as you do it, so that the transmission is unloaded.

You can also double-declutch between high and low ranges on the move as
long as you are at a suitable speed.  The transfer box is just another
non-synchro gearbox, after all.  I owned a succession of Series IIAs years
ago and had to learn to double-declutch in order to get into and out of 1st.
and 2nd. on the main gearbox.

Actually I didn't _have_ to do anything of the sort, I was always amazed
at the number of LR peons who just banged the lever into 1st. and 2nd. and
explained the horrible crunching noises which ensued as "Oh, LRs always do
that." (I worked in Kenya at the time and Government LRs were misused for
everything and by everybody.)

I was taught how to double declutch by my father, who used to drive 6WD
Scammel field gun tractors in the British Army before WWII.  The standard
technique works fine for the transfer box as long as you allow _plenty_ of
time for the engine speed to fall right off when changing up, and give
_plenty_ of revs at a suitably low vehicle speed when changing down.

I last drove a Series LR in 1991, so I when I took delivery of my new D110
three weeks ago I was keen to see if the technique would be the same with
the new transmission.  It is.  Even the speed/rev combinations seem to be
much the same as they used to be.  I must say it's nice to have an
all-synchro main box when in traffic, and the synchro is more capable than
that on the Series III.  The force needed to operate the clutch is less than
on a Series vehicle too.

--
Basil Allsopp                       |  E-mail   basil@ovisun.ovi.ac.za
Onderstepoort Veterinary Institute  |
Private Bag X5, Onderstepoort 0110  |  Phone    +27 12 5299385
South Africa                        |  Fax      +27 12 5299431

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 11:10:57 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Airbags

>Airbags are classes as SRS (Supplementry Restraint Systems).

The only airbag I've ever had in my 11A was the mother-in-law.And once
was enough!

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 11:06:52 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Diesels and Imports

>1. Why are diesel engines (non-turbos), even with their lack of horsepower and
>torque, preferred for heavy off-road use?

I'll stick my neck out here:-)
I honestly didnt know they were.If you are talking about the UK scene
it may be something as simple as the fact that there are a lot of them
about.The petrol motors are seen as expensive to run,so the diesels have
become more popular,a situation which is filtering into the secondhand
market.They may lack horsepower,but they dont lack torque,and the grunt
is available low down in the rev range,much lower than the petrols.Add to
that the instant throttle response,and good engine braking,you have a
better than average off road power unit.You really dont need screaming
power.Dont forget the motto is "As slowly as possible,As fast as necessary".
Also,given a watery drive,diesels have no ignition to get wet.
All of which,with the possible exception of the last comment,gives you a
good unit for towing purposes as well.And since most farmers,contractors
et al,want to tow with them,they sell a good many.Just my view of the world.
Comments Andy?
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 11:29:53 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Front Locking Hubs - Use 'Em

M Scott Fugate wrote:
> The added resistance of 4 U joints, 2 axles, and a prop shaft
> spinning away needlessly is significant.

For those who have opined to the contrary, my suggestion for empirical 
research is to jack up the front axle and rotate a wheel with hubs 
first locked, then unlocked. Any change in effort required will indicate 
power required to turn the extra mass of components.

And of course there must be more wear when something is being used, than 
when it is not. When it is OK to fit an electric fan to save about 5hp 
absorbed by the engine driven fan, surely FW hubs are an equally 
sensible fitment for hard road driving?

Some of us may be dumb, but not stupid.

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

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