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Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 06:21:28 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: Disco Honda, BMW

Although my first reaction to Honda and BMW selling Disco's is one of 
repugnance. I now think that this could be a good idea.
1. When last did you compare the number of LR parts outlets with those of 
Honda and BMW?
2. For us bods who can only afford LR's when they become "quaint" there will 
be tons of partially used Disco's up for grabs.
3. LR will make more money, and will stay around at least as long as I do.

The thing that worries me is that it somehow tarnishes the image of the 
Birmabrite Brotherhood. Its like disco'vering that you are after all, a Ford 
type. Maybe what we need is a BMW/Honda to LR conversion kit (decal changes, 
gear-knob, hubcaps, special leaking gaskets, etc)

Cheers
Matthew	S-III
mloxton@msn.com. 
ZA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 13:05:11 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: Cold start warning 

Phil wrote:

> <snip>...warning lights which sits on the speedo face is labelled 'cold
start' ...<snip>

This sounds like the glow-plug circuit on the Diesel model. Was/is your S-III 
a diesel?. I seem to recall that this had to be activated by turning the 
ignition to a half-cock position, and the light would glow until the plugs had 
done their job.

Cheers
Matthew	S-III
ZA			RR- still Looking

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 06:37:27 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: Them wires

<snick>.. Lift brush/branches up and over the windscreen ...<snick>

OH!, What a clever idea! Maybe this is cheaper than buying all those mirrors 
and wiper blades!

Sheesh, whatever will they think of next?

Matthew (27C-29C today)
ZA

>.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 00:39:35 +1100 (EST)
From: Dean Cording <dean@holly.aspect.com.au>
Subject: Plush Series III - Best of Both Worlds

This ad appeared in 'The Canberra Times' today:

FOR SALE:
Land-Rover Series 3 LWB '79, reco Holden, wheels, bullbar, Koni shocks, 
consoles, CD, sports seats and steering, carpet, sound proofed, 12 mths 
rego, good cond. $AUD5,500

Dean

=============================================================================
Dean Cording                                   ASPECT Computing P/L
                                               86 Northbourne Ave
Dean.Cording@aspect.com.au  (Work)             Canberra, ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA
Dean@holly.aspect.com.au    (Private)          ACN. 005 083 670

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 00:45:47 +1100 (EST)
From: Dean Cording <dean@holly.aspect.com.au>
Subject: Re: Cold start warning 

On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Matthew Loxton wrote:

> Phil wrote:
> > <snip>...warning lights which sits on the speedo face is labelled 'cold
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> ignition to a half-cock position, and the light would glow until the plugs had 
> done their job.

The light works on petrol ones as well.  It is activated by a switch 
connected to the choke cable and warns you that your choke is on.  
However most choke cables have been replaced by now and will have the 
switch missing.

Dean
=============================================================================
Dean Cording                                   ASPECT Computing P/L
                                               86 Northbourne Ave
Dean.Cording@aspect.com.au  (Work)             Canberra, ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA
Dean@holly.aspect.com.au    (Private)          ACN. 005 083 670

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 08:08:08 -0500
From: Shaun Carrigan <shaunc@infi.net>
Subject: Michelin XPCs

Just mounted a set of the official Michelin replacements for the 
venerable 205 R16s on my '88 RR. I asked for the OEM tire but the 
tire dealer said they can't be found anywhere--they'd already looked 
"nationwide." This was unfortunate as I had an unused 205 R16 in the 
spare compartment and was hoping to get by with three new 205 R16s. 
They allowed me $75 for the spare.

Supposedly the new XPC 205/80 R16 is a better tire. Stronger 
sidewall design and lower rolling resistance, I was told, so it 
should last longer and burn a bit less fuel. Cost was $143 each plus 
balance (ouch) at Universal Tire here in Nashville, Tenn.

I looked at Bridgestone's nearest equivalent, but it was 0.4 inch 
wider and slightly taller--supposedly enough to possibly rub a 
control arm in a hard turn/bottom out situation. On road I'm sure it 
would be fine. But it was only about $18 cheaper so I went with the 
recommended tire.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:10:08 +1100 (EST)
From: Dean Cording <dean@holly.aspect.com.au>
Subject: Re: Series: "Truth in Advertising"

On Thu, 8 Feb 1996 Wdcockey@aol.com wrote:

> >From a 1962 Rover of North America brochure about Land Rovers:
> "Its aluminum alloy body will neither rust not corrode and its other metal
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> drawings of 9 different LRs on the cover, and a very nice photo of a North
> American SII 88" SW, "just like" ours.

I picked up a copy of the original Series I brochure from my dealer 
today.  Apparently they have reprinted them to emphasise the 'Land Rover 
Tradition' (TM) for prospective Disco owners.

Anyhow,  it contains a few amusing claims:

"Comfortable, throughly weatherproofed and adequately ventilated, fast 
and economical on the road and ready to tackle the toughest cross-country 
going"

Remember this is a Series I soft-top they are talking about.

Dean
=============================================================================
Dean Cording                                   ASPECT Computing P/L
                                               86 Northbourne Ave
Dean.Cording@aspect.com.au  (Work)             Canberra, ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA
Dean@holly.aspect.com.au    (Private)          ACN. 005 083 670

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 08:13:13 -0500
From: Shaun Carrigan <shaunc@infi.net>
Subject: RR wheel bearing

While installing tires and new rear springs, the mechanic noticed a 
lack of lubrication in the right rear wheel bearing of my '88 RR. 
Said it would probably be toast sometime in the future. Said it was 
beginning to show some "pitting." Left side is OK. Gear oil level is 
fine.

Why would lubricant stop reaching the bearing? What do I need to fix 
problem? Is it a DIY repair? Thanks.

Shaun Carrigan
88 RR

------------------------------

From: stretch@vol.net
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 09:07:06 PST
Subject: RE: GPS 

Hi group:

Try net searches on "GPS", Magellan (brand name), Sony model 
#NVX-F160 (moving map GPS display), etc.

If you hike/have several vehicles, etc, you may want a hand held.

Be sure you can navigate without it though...it really sucks to 
have it die after you've marched/driven into unknown territory.  
Always be aware of the way out...in the best case, this will save 
time......

regards
---------------Original Message---------------

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
 * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc

Not entirely LR related, but here goes...

I'm thinking about buying a GPS to use in my Rover among other 
things.  Does 
anyone have any experience or locations I can look for information.
I'd be using it in the Rover for both general navigation and to 
identify 
locations to look at or photograph later from the air....
I definitely don't want to spend a lot of money!

Thanks,
Eric

----------End of Original Message----------

-------------------------------------
Name: jcollins
E-mail: stretch@vol.net
Temp assgn:  Hong Kong
Date: 02/10/96
Time: 09:07:06
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Steve Methley" <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:50:42 +0000
Subject: Re: RR wheel bearing

Shaun wrote:

>While installing tires and new rear springs, the mechanic noticed a
>lack of lubrication in the right rear wheel bearing of my '88 RR

Hold on, how did he notice this??  To see the bearing you have to take
out the half shaft, and pull the hub and brake disc, after removing
the brake caliper.  Did he do all this just to swap springs and tires,
it certainly isn't necessary?

I'd want some answers to this before I gave him any more work, or have
I missed something?
--
Best Regards,
Steve.

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 10:45:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Engine serial numbers (Series)

>What is, or is there in fact,  a  formula for determining the year of an
>engine from the serial numbers ??

In "Know Your Land Rover" by Robert Ivins there are tables of engine and
transmission serial numbers. It looks like for SII the fourth digit of the
engine, trans and axle numbers indicates model year. For SIIA and SIII the
situation is similar to vehicle serial numbers with no direct indication of
year in engine numbers.

David Cockey

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 10:50:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Series: "Truth in Advertising"

Another interesting claim about corrosion in a 1958 ad for "The New Series II
Regular" (One of the reprints sold by LRO mag):

"a completely rust- and corrosion- proof body of aluminium alloy"..."A rugged
machine that needs no coddling, it can be left out of doors year in, year
out, in any weather, in any climate."

So that isn't rust or corrosion which caused the holes in my bulkhead? Must
be some mice with strong teeth.

David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:12:44 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: I hate U-haul (should be known as U-Hold)

At 13:20 08.02.96 EST, Bobeck, David R. wrote:

>David "No, its not a Range Rover, Ma'am" Bobeck
>Washington DC

Yet another example of what a stupid idea it was for LRNA to divorce Range
Rover from its true Land Rover identity.  An ad campaign would help.
Holding our breaths won't.

Cheers!
John
'95 LAND Rover Discovery, not RANGE Rover Discovery
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:13:13 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Message for Bill C

A better idea might be to send it to majordomo@land-rover.team.net rather
than the List (land-rover-owner).

Cheers!
John

At 11:46 09.02.96 +0000, Mike Rooth wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
>Cheers
>Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:13:16 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Birmabrite brotherhood

At 10:24 09.02.96 EST, steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com wrote:
  
The names of the people willing to help is kept very private. It is only
distributed to those on the list of helpers (as opposed to the mailing
list). That way free loaders are kept out.
-----------------------

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California
 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:13:19 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: misc ramblings....

At 14:36 09.02.96 EST, Jan Ben wrote:

2. BMW Disco?  I don't _want_ them to wave at me now!!  If you thought that
it was a yuppie-mobile,
  wait until they get a bimmer badge!  It'll be the standard-issue
station-wagon for the 320i crowd.
-------------------------------------

Okay, okay, okay.  If BMW takes the Discovery and rebadges it with a BMW
logo, I'll put a Union Jack and a GB oval on mine.  You have my native-born
Bavarian word on that.

Prost!
John (Made in Germany)
'95 Discovery (Made in England)
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:49:25 -0600 (CST)
From: Alan Hood <alanh@merlin.nhmccd.cc.tx.us>

index lro-digest

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:50:05 -0500 (EST)
From: John Antram <rewt@sover.net>
Subject: Discovery Cooling system

	Last week, we noticed a strong smell of anti-freeze coming from 
our 1995 Discovery. For a couple of days, we could not locate the leak. 
We refilled the tank with antifreeze and kept an eye on its level. 
Arriving home, there was finally leak to find; it was on the back of the 
engine under the air intake; our dealer fixed it under warrenty ( and did 
the 11,000 mile service, too ) and said it was the valley gasket leaking 
and that it was not properly tightened from LR. Other Discovery/defender 
owners may want to keep an eye on this area too.

John Antram	rewt@sover.net RR 3 Box 888 Middlebury, Vt 05753
work: 802-767-5003 home: 802-388-0737 rover: 802-238-8164 benz: 802-238-8164
1972 Land Rover Series III 88" red, sunroofs
1995 Land Rover Discovery 5-speed, sunroofs, Roman Bronze
1987 Mercedes Benz 300 SDL Anthracite Gray

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:11:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Series: "Truth in Advertising"

On Sat, 10 Feb 1996 Wdcockey@aol.com wrote:

> "a completely rust- and corrosion- proof body of aluminium alloy"..."A rugged
> machine that needs no coddling, it can be left out of doors year in, year
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> So that isn't rust or corrosion which caused the holes in my bulkhead? Must
> be some mice with strong teeth.

	Because the body is the external bits, the bulkhead is stell and 
	inside.  Now, if we want to discuss door posts (or lack thereof)
	we could begin to build quite a case.  Too bad rust and corrosion
	only covers oxidation and not galvanic action which is electrical
	in nature.  Like to see them explain that away.  But then again,
	this is from the marketting types, among the first against the
	wall when the revolution comes...

	Rgds,

Dixon Kenner
Canadian Forestry Service                       Natural Resources Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:37:29
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: Camel Trophy...wrong message!

This Camel Trophy thing is really getting to me. As events go this one seems 
to be an ostensibly benign show of testosterone, financial largesse and the 
capabilities of Land Rover vehicles, but I'm really tired of the cigarette 
manufacturers using this kind of grandstand event to promote their dangerous 
products, especially when it involves Rovers.
I suppose the message they're trying to send is that anyone who smokes Camel 
cigarettes is buying into this glamorous adventure-filled lifestyle where one 
drives expensive 4x4s through the jungle and to overcome incredible obstacles 
on their way to victory.
This kind of advertising really stinks.
I'm not against corporate sponsorship of racing, but the message tobacco 
advertisers send is so exquisitly decieving-especially to young people-that 
the glamor/tobacco connection is made at an almost unconscious level.
No one can deny the truth of the ill effects of long term tobacco use.
I urge all of you to push for the removal of Camel cigarettes as a corporate 
sponsor of this event.
BTW, the same goes for Bud, Coors and Miller.

 
Bill Adams
3Dmentia computer animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington, MD 20895
301-949-9475

'66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel  ...all there

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@mail.biddeford.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:29:35 -0500
Subject: Engine /trans conversions

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> Sounds like what you want is a Perkins 4-203 Diesel. With the LR tranny in 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> Tom Rowe
> UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    

For all those contemplating engine or transmission substitutions here are a 
couple of formulas which I have found useful in plotting and  planning for 
the build it yourself LR. :
                                               RPM xTire dia (in inches)  
MPH(at 1:1 in top gear)=     -----------------------------
                                              Axle ratio x  336

                                             MPH x Axle ratio x 336
RPM                            =      -------------------------------
                                                    Tire diameter (inches)

Sorry, you metric types will have to convert on your own.

Remember if you are using a 5-spd overdrive transmission that you will have 
to increase MPH or decrease RPM by the proper factor.  Hope you have as 
much fun dreaming as I did.  I got these from a fellow who does this sort 
of thing all the time. He said he got it from a Hot Rod magazine
.Ron Franklin

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:21:42 -0700
From: "Lee Zeltzer" <lzeltzer@isdnet.com>
Subject: Re: Camel Trophy...wrong message!

WILLIAM ADAMS wrote:
> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>  * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)]
> 301-949-9475
> '66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel  ...all there

Bill, I couldn't agree more. Perhaps we can talk Bill Gates into the Win95 
trophy; then only those with strong Macintosh loyalties would object. 

Seriously, the sponsorship of events is a great advertising vehicle for any 
commercial vendor. I have some trouble defining who is appropriate as an 
advertiser. I think we need to be able to distinguish the event from a smoke 
puffing camel. 

I am sure if another sponsor wanted to do a similar event it would be 
supported by the community. Don't follow in the role of Senator Exxon and 
company and try to further restrict the freedom of speech, even commercial 
speech.
-- 
Lee Zeltzer, Senior Consultant
Innovative System Design
100 N. Stone Ave. Suite 605
Tucson AZ 85701
(520)791-3323 X 21
http://www.isdnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:21:10 -0700 (MST)
From: Tebbin Salvesen <tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us>
Subject: Re: Camel Trophy...wrong message!

On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, WILLIAM ADAMS wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>  * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>  * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc
> This Camel trophy-----
seems to me that smoking is still a personal choice (no I dont) also ive
never personally seen any adds from camel directly linked to this event as
a matter of fact finding ANYTHING about this event seems to be rather hard
unless you watch tv at three in the morning!

------------------------------

From: Rod Steele <rsteele@sparky.transdata.ca>
Subject: LR stories for campfire
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:44:42 -0500

Greetings,

More stories about LR's in Africa for your entertainment one and all:

On a trip from Botswana to RSA  in 1978, (hi there to our fellow =
subscriber in Cape Town), we got a flat (driving a SIII 109).  No =
problem the old man jumps out, off with the tyre, gently puts a band aid =
around the hole (found by immersing the inner tube in our drinking =
water, which acquired a new flavour and went back in the bottle for =
emergencies only), replaces the tube and tyre, and pumps like a madman =
(a regular foot pump).  The band aid was successfully trapped against =
the inner wall of the tyre.  We got all the way to Johannesburg, another =
900km, with only a top up from the foot pump.

There was a german fellow working alone in the dunes/desert along the =
skeleton coast in SWA/Namibia about five years ago.  Managed to kill his =
battery, and decided push starting was out of the question.  No problem, =
he hooks out the alternator ,  connects it to a homemade windmill on the =
roof of the LR and wires it to charge the battery.    Sits back for a =
good few hours, and waits.  The winds here, particularly near the coast =
can be impressive.  When he put everything back together, he had =
restored enough charge to start the LR.  I can't tell you what model, or =
how long it took to charge it, if I had known then I was going to bump =
into you fellow enthusiasts of the legend five years later on the net =
from Canada, I would have asked, honest.

All the best for '96 one and all
Rod Steele
rsteele@mail.transdata.ca
'49 80"
'54 86"
'64 109"

------------------------------

From: Rod Steele <rsteele@sparky.transdata.ca>
Subject: Re: BB list
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:41:37 -0500

Congratulations, an excellent constructive idea, my info is in your box =
Doug.   I look forward to installing a BB badge on the grill of my 80in.

Rod

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@mail.biddeford.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:39:55 -0500
Subject:  Engine /trans conversions  (further)

>                                                RPM xTire dia (in inches)  
> MPH(at 1:1 in top gear)=     -----------------------------
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> Remember if you are using a 5-spd overdrive transmission that you will have 
> to increase MPH or decrease RPM by the proper factor.

After I sent this I can see that I was unclear.  The RPM figure used is 
the input RPM at the differential.  You will of course have to figure 
that out using the transmission/overdrive and transfer ratio to engine 
speed.  Check the owners manual for these.  It's relatively easy for 2WD 
cars which see 1:1 in and out of the transmission in top gear but 4WD 
transfer case transmissions use all sorts of strange ratios.

sorry if I confused anyone.

Ron Franklin

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:43:51 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: message format

You've got your automatic signature block set.  If you're using Eudora click
on menu options "special/settings/send mail."  There is a check box "use
signature" that turns this on/off.  Your signature is defined from menu
"Window/Signature."  Other e-mail front ends have similar features.

Cheers!
John

At 00:00 10.02.96 -0500, ASFCO@aol.com wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 106 lines)]
>                                                                      Thanks,
>                                                                        Steve

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:18:29 -0500
Subject:  Re: Re: Series: "Truth in Advertising"

Dixon Kenner writes:

> Too bad rust and corrosion
>	only covers oxidation and not galvanic action which is electrical
>	in nature.

In material science galvanic action aka galvanic corrosion is just a subtype
of corrosion. I doubt though that anyone at Solihull would be interested in
defending 35 year old ads. Thy'd probably mutter something about changing
standards.

David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 23:02:13 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Series bench seats/Safety

I used a pair of front seat belts from a Nissan sentra. Found them in a scrap 
yard. I also took the rear lap belt out of the back to attach it over the rear 
inward jump seat. All seats belts and attachments comply with industry 
standards. All the bolts are the same. The cost of all belts was (I think) 
$10. 

Doug, sorry to hear about the alternator. I guess now the old gal is being 
used more often, then things get used ! I only used to use Beryl on weekends, 
the odd off-road trip, to the dump, the odd Sunday run. Hope Andy got back 
home okay.  I have the door lock here, will send the barrel and key down next 
week. 

When you come over to get the other spare, rear seat, I can give you the door 
lock then. 

Mark

----------
From:  SACME@aol.com
Sent:  Saturday, February 10, 1996 12:25 AM
Subject:  Series bench seats/Safety

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
 * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc

On Wed, 7 Feb, Barnett Childress asked:

>I was also wondering how the series vehicles that came with these seats 
>were equipped with belts.
When I bought my 72 Series III SWB (it was called a "HardTop Deluxe", I
think) new, in the U.S., it had the two rear benches on fold-up frames, each
bench fitted with two seat belts.  Extra STEEL brackets had been fitted under
the wheel boxes to spread the seat belt loading.  These brackets proved to be
one of the only weak links on the vehicle (aside from the frame eventually
rusting away), as Solihull had allowed the steel brackets to come in contact
with the Birmabright skin.  Galvanic corrosion ensued, and my love now wears
two riveted (with roofing tar behind) Birmabright bandaids on each of her
rear quarter panels.  I have since removed the seats, belts, and remains of
the steel reinforcements.  If I were going to reinstall the belts, I would
give serious consideration to the G-forces possible in a crash and spend some
time in constructing adequate attachment points, but paying much more careful
attention to galvanic corrosion than did Solihull in 1972.  Don't let steel
and Birmabright come in contact, especially where the roads are salted in
winter or near the ocean. Note: the belts were just lap belts, and had no
shoulder harnesses.  I would definitely go to lap/shoulder combinations now -
the PO of my newest S3 had installed a single inward-facing jump seat in the
right rear, with a neat inertial seat/lapbelt installation.  
Hope this helps in your decisionmaking.  Good luck.

Mark Talbot:  Hi!  If you read this, you might want to give Barnett the
benefit of your experience on the above seat/seatbelt combo on "Beryl".
  Thanks.   

Doug Scott, Monmouth, Maine U.S.A.
SACME@aol.com or 207-933-2220 (voice & fax), 2 ea., '72 Series III 88's

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:19:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Re: Camel Trophy...wrong message!

> I suppose the message they're trying to send is that anyone who smokes Camel 
> cigarettes is buying into this glamorous adventure-filled lifestyle where one 
> drives expensive 4x4s through the jungle and to overcome incredible obstacles 
> on their way to victory.

> I urge all of you to push for the removal of Camel cigarettes as a corporate 
> sponsor of this event.

    But are they?!?  Find me any connection between Camel cigarettes and
    the Camel Trophy these days, or any use by the Camel cigarettes
    folks of the Camel Trophy in their advertising.  It's "Camel Trophy
    Brands" or somesuch that owns the thing and its spinoff mechandise
    these days, right?

    It may well have been Camel cigarettes originally, and for all I
    know, the same tobacco company owns this "Camel Trophy Brands" as a
    shell corporation.  But I haven't seen any overt link between the
    Camel Trophy and cigarettes in a very long time.

    Heck, given the strenuous physical activities the participants have
    to undergo, it's a pretty safe bet none of them are smokers!  hack
    hack wheeze...

    Duncan, happy to work at a smoke-free company (the remaining smokers
    have to go off the property entirely!)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:46:35 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Progress?

What's up?....for the past few days, I've received several digests.  One 
will have a handful (or one, as today) message, then another with the normal 
count.

Anyway, spent the day trying to get the rear frame crossmember on.  First 
Saturday since December when there wasn't rain, snow, ice or the flu.  Also 
spent a considerable time grinding *more* galvanizing off the replacement, 
and it didn't fit quite right.  A word of advice...*DON'T* consider buying a 
galvanized repair piece...just go regular steel and paint the hell out of 
it.  Galvanizing makes sense when dealing with the entire frame, but it is a 
pain in the arse for repair work. And even so, I've got a good dose of 'fume 
fever' right now even though I was wearing a mask.

Things were going pretty well - tried both straight and reverse polarity to 
get a good arc, then the worst thing happened when I was about 80% done - I 
ran out of wire! Damn.  At 5 PM on a Saturday.  Double damn.  One of these 
days, maybe I'll finish....
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:59:02 -0800
From: uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Clinton D. Coates)
Subject: New member from Canada

Hi everyone!

I was shlepping around on the 'net looking for anything
Landy, and joy of joys, discovered lro digest.  I am
the proud owner of 'Emerson' a blue 1961 2 1/4l LWB pickup
with 20K on a complete Roverworks BC rebuild.  
I have some powertrain info requests that I am hoping
to get answered:

*  Is there any way to get more performance out of the 
2.25l gas motor?(wild laughter) I have a single barrel
Weber that works quite well and gives 17mpg (US gal).  
-Atlantic British supplies a 2 barrel Weber and header kit 
that is supposed to boost performance by about 15%.  Does
this work? I am concerned about the lack of a heat riser
in the header as I live in Kamloops and make occasional 
winter trips to Prince George (the last time it went down 
to -40C plus a howling wind).
-I have heard mumblings about degreeing the camshaft and
port matching the intake manifold... is it worth it?
-Do Splitfire plugs make a difference?
-How about the electronic ignition kit?

*  Saggy ignition in the rain.  Is this simply a gift
from the Prince of Darkness that I have to live with,
or is there a cure?  New points/condenser/cap/rotor/
plugs/etc. do not help.  Silicone spray liberally
applied partially helps though.

*  Motor conversions.  Are there any good conversions
with North American available parts that work well
in the LR?  I would eventually prefer to get a diesel
in the truck.  Huge size and screaming performance 
are not important.  Ease of installation, lack of trauma
to the bodywork/chassis and no undue overloading on the 
suspension is. I was wondering about Volvo, Mercedes 
and Audi (VW?) turbo diesels...or perhaps the 2.5l LR TDi? 

*  Does driving with the front hubs unlocked really
wear out the swivel pin housings?

*  A nation wide network of LR people willing to help
seems like an excellent idea. My address is as 
follows:

Clinton D. Coates
RR.3 Site 11, Comp. 5
Kamloops, BC
Canada

Tel:(604) 578-7372     Fax: (604) 578-8544
If you are in trouble near Prince George, try calling my
mother (ever sympathetic to our cause)
Myrna Coates (604) 996-8532

Good luck and good rovering

Clinton D. Coates

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 19:11:44 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: D130 Dormobiles????

Dear all,
        A recent input stated that Roy Wassili saw a Dormobile D130. Hum,
although I wish that vehicle could exist, Martin Walter Ltd,the company
that built the Dormobiles was out of business before the introduction of
the Defender line. They folded around 1983, and the last Land Rover based
Dormobile was thought to be around 1976. Too bad, a D130 Dormobile
conversion could be quite impressive. See ya.

Mike Smith, East Coast Rover Co.

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:30:58 -0800
Subject: Re: Discovery Cooling system

On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, John Antram <rewt@sover.net> wrote:

>	Last week, we noticed a strong smell of anti-freeze coming from 
>our 1995 Discovery. For a couple of days, we could not locate the leak. 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>and that it was not properly tightened from LR. Other Discovery/defender 
>owners may want to keep an eye on this area too.

I had the same type of symptoms on my V8.  The location you're describing is 
also where the heater lines exit the engine (on the older V8s at least).  One of 
the small rubber lines had developed a pinhole leak.  If your problem persists, 
you might want to check the hose clamps on those fittings.

Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:31:03 -0800
Subject: Re: Camel Trophy...wrong message!

On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>This Camel Trophy thing is really getting to me. 
>BTW, the same goes for Bud, Coors and Miller.
Land Rovers (at least in my book) stand for individuality and self-reliance.  
Our society, however, has progressed (regressed?) to the point that the 
individual is not expected to take responsibility for his or her own actions.  
Witness the recent telecommunications act.  The government has decided that we 
are unable to make concious decisions and take proactive action on the behalf of 
our own children.  

As a Land Rover owner, I attempt to escape (however slightly) from this 
governmental paternalism that invades our lives.  If Camel Cigarettes wants to 
sponsor the Trophy, they are free and should be free to do so.  If the media 
wants to cover the Trophy....once again, they are free to do so.  Each and every 
one must take responsibility for ourselves and our own children, that is the 
cost (one I am glad to bear) of the freedoms we enjoy.

Certianly, smoking and drinking damage people's health.  So does spending an 
afternoon soaked with 90wt oil, it is up to each INDIVIDUAL to decide what risks 
he or she is willing to take...and to teach them to his or her children.  
Blaming advertising and the media for people making the wrong choices is an 
abdication of this right and responsibility.

'Nuff said ... back to Rover stuff?

Eric

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 19:54:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Engine serial numbers (Series)

Thanks Dave...............Steve

------------------------------

From: clapp.carol@mail.viacomcv.hybrid.com (Carol Clapp)
Subject: Black D90 spotted
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:20:43 +0000

I spotted a black D90 (Bianchi Construction on the side), on 30 or 31 Jan in
San Ramon, CA.  It was still cracking as it cooled down.  I waited a while
but guess the occupant(s) had gone to lunch.  Is it anyone out there?? On
this net??  It was parked near my white Wrangler.  My SII is not road-worthy
yet.

Carol
1959 SII 88"
Bagpuss

------------------------------

From: slade@sisna.com
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 17:14:26 -0700
Subject: Re: LR stories for campfire

Ok, here's my contribution:

This story was told to me by James P. Blair, staff photographer for
National Geographic for 27 years.  He was staying with my wife and I for a
week while in Utah for a photojournalism workshop.  When he found out I had
a Land-Rover that's all he would let me drive him around in.  It had been
years since he had driven one and remembered the double-clutching was
tricky.  Anyhow, on to the story...

While on assignment in Africa, the writer for the story he was working on
purchcased a Land-Rover (I'm using the hyphen as this was back in the 60's)
for travel accross the country.  He couldn't remember if it was a 109 or an
88 when I pressed for more details (funny, he could remember almost
everything else about his travels around the world :)).

They were driving in a blinding rainstorm after having months of draught,
so of course they hadn't tried out the windshield wiper motors to see if
they worked.  They didn't.  They were driving down a washboard and bumpy
trail and could barely see out the front window enough to see the road.

Apparently (as the story goes) they had just left Egypt where they had had
more than a few brushes with the legendary King Cobra, and by that time Jim
had developed quite a fear of snakes (ala Indiana Jones).

The Land-Rover was pitching and bumping and rattling wildly as they rambled
down the trail.  Suddenly, and without warning, a big snake raised it's
head out from the middle of the spare tyre attatched to the hood (he didn't
know that was a popular option) and swayed back and forth in rhythm with
the truck.

The driver (after hearing Jim scream) slammed on the brakes and stopped the
truck, upon which the snake retreated back into the wheel.

After catching thier breath for a few minutes they decided to leave the
snake in the wheel, as neither one of them wanted to risk a confrontation
with the deadly reptile, not to mention getting wet.

They continued on their journey down the road and after they got up to
speed again the snake reappeared and resumed it's dance in front of the
windscreen.

Jim yelled again and the Land-Rover came to a screeching halt once more.

Jim was carrying a pistol at his side for 'emergencies' and immidiately
handed it to his writer.  He also handed him his walking stick and sent him
out into the pounding rain.

Jim watched through the wet windscreen as his writer peered up to look into
the wheel, trying to see the snake through the darkness.  He could see
nothing, so proceeded to poke at the snake with the walking stick.  Nothing
still.

He slowly crept up to the tyre, pistol drawn, ready to fire at a minutes
notice.  Peering into the hole he reached in with his other hand to grab
the snake and throw it out.

Suddenly he lept back screaming flailing his arm wildly.  Jim, barely able
to see a thing, jumped back and yelled at the same time.

When his writer quit laughing enough to show Jim what he had grabbed from
the wheel, Jim had already figured it out, and was not as amused.

He had remembered that they had kept their length of tow-rope coiled up in
a very handy spot in the wheel, and realized that the rope waving in the
wind was their 'King Cobra'.

He had no explanation for why the rope had come up and waved in the wind
like a snake, but it didn't really matter.  It made me laugh, and was a
great story involving not only Land-Rovers, but a photographer as well.

Anyhow, hope you enjoyed.  I'll probably change it a bit and make it my
own, so if you hear me telling it around the campfire at the Portland meet,
just let me finish, OK!!

Regards,

Michael

-Proud father, husband and Land-Rover owner-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 22:08:10 -0500
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: What the heck is that Thang??!!

Dear all on the list: 

I am putting the electric back into my Rover and I have found an extra little 
doodle which has the Lucas name on it, it is rectangular and sits immediately 
to the left of the voltage regulator with a wire running to the regulator.  
None of my manuals say anything about this "thang" and all the other 
electrical ditzels which sit on the dashpanel are accounted for (starter 
solenoid, ignition coil, fuse box, voltage regulator).  Is this some sort of 
fix for a partially  defective voltage regulator?   

Help me before I reach for the hammer.

Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD 21020
dunsmo19@us.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 20:10:25 -0800
From: gthrall@ix.netcom.com (Glenn Wm. Thrall )
Subject: Re: Renewed Traditions -- Atlanta Area
Subject: Renewed Traditions

>From time to time on the main list and the mendo_recce list I
have seen comments about a Land Rover dealer in Atlanta, Georgia.
Mr. Sean Sinkule owns the dealer, Renewed Traditions. The company is 
primarily an importer of vintage Land Rovers, a refurbisher, and a 
custom builder.

I have no connection whatever with Mr. Sinkule, his company, or with 
any of his employees.

Having seen Mr. Sinkule's E-mail address in the main list 
(atlanta67@aol.com) I sent a note asking for information, i.e., 
vehicles currently in stock, prices and options.

The following day Mr. Sinkule sent a note explaining the concept of 
Renewed Traditions, the stock on hand, estimated time from order to 
delivery, and firm dollar numbers regarding both his stock in hand and 
available options.

I telephoned Mr. Sinkule at 0600 California Standard Time (0900
Georgia Time). I am a firm believer in telephoning on "cheap time" 
whenever possible. Mr. Sinkule was extremely helpful, candid, and 
forthright. He faxed a multi page inventory to me within minutes.

In my search for the "perfect" Land Rover (a 109 five door) I have 
spoken with many sellers, owners, dealers, honest folk and quick buck 
artists. Mr. Sinkule appears to be an honest businessman, giving
honest value for money.

I have no idea at all If I will buy a vehicle from Renewed Traditions. 
However there are two members of the main list who have given him good 
marks and related his vehicles appear sound and well turned out.

I have found some "Land Rover Import Companies" I would never call 
again. Few appear to deliver a product as advertised.

The good ones are known, and employees or owners often appear in this 
list. All appear professional and ethical, including Mr. Sinkule. To
my knowledge his is the only company of any size specializing in
Series vehicles in the South East of the United States.

I was impressed with his knowledge of his product, the Series Land 
Rover, his professionalism in discussing what he could and could not 
do, costs associated with his work, and the availability or lack of 
availability of some vehicles. In the past I have been told vehicles 
have been available, when in fact they have not. That was not so with 
Mr. Sinkule.

For those interested in a dealer specializing in Series vehicles I 
have included Renewed Traditions' telephone number, and Mr. Sinkule's 
E-mail address.

For what it is worth, my sister lives in the Greater Atlanta area. 
She had no idea Renewed Traditions existed.

Mr. Sean Sinkule
Renewed Traditions
Telephone: (770) 392-1593
E-mail: atlanta67@aol.com

If this note sounds like a paean to "Renewed Traditions" or to Sean 
Sinkule, it really is not. As a hard nosed police supervisor I always 
wanted to know whom I should do business with, and whom to avoid. 
Relating positive (or negative) experiences to others likely to use
the services of a vehicle restorer is positive.

We need to know who those people are whom we may want to patronize, 
and those whom we may want to avoid at all costs. I am certain there 
will be future notes on "The Search for The Perfect Rover."

Glenn Thrall
gthrall@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 20:03:31 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Fuel Injection (Was New Member From Canada)

At 03:59 PM 2/10/96 -0800, you wrote:

>I was shlepping around on the 'net looking for anything
>Landy, and joy of joys, discovered lro digest.  I am
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)]
>-Do Splitfire plugs make a difference?
>-How about the electronic ignition kit?

I've suggested the following before, in hopes that someone will actually
look into it.  Here goes again.  Holley makes a number of "Pro-Jection"
throttle-body fuel injection kits for 4-cyl applications.  Model 3739,
flowing 300 cfm, is meant for 1980's GM "Iron Duke" engines and reportedly
provides a 10-15% power increase over stock carburated GM engines.  Who
knows how it might help a Land Rover 2.25, but I would think there is more
more for inprovement there than a mid-1980's GM Iron Duke.  There is also a
similar Pro-Jection kit meant for 4 cyl Jeep applications.  If either of
these fit, or could be made to fit, it seems fuel injection would give you
better fuel economy, more power, better cold starting, and easy
adjustability (from the driver's seat) of mixture, etc. -- as well as a very
unique Land Rover.  Combined with electronic ignition (suitably
waterproofed) you might have something pretty special.   For info contact
Holley at 502 781 9741.  I have nothing to do with Holley -- I got a book
about Pro-Jection when I was considering it for my Ford.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 21:07:26 -0800
From: fhyap@ix.netcom.com (Franklin H. Yap )
Subject: GPS

There are several GPS sites on the net.  They include:

A practical guide to GPS 
http://www.fys.uio.no/~kjetikj/fjellet/GPS1.html

Introduction to GPS 
http://galaxy.einet.net/editors/john-beadles/introgps.html

An overview of GPS 
http://wwwhost.cc.utexas.edu/ftp/pub/grg/gcraft/notes/gps/gps.html

GPS resource page http://www.inn.bppt.go.id/~chilmar/gps.html

NavTech GPS Store http://204.91.49.11/navtech.com/index.html

Road Warrior Consumer GPS Products 
http://warrior.com/trimble/index.html

GPS are sold by the stores listed and they are a good place to get an 
idea of prices.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 16:28:24 +1100 (EST)
From: Dean Cording <dean@holly.aspect.com.au>
Subject: Re: Cold start warning switch on seriesIII

On 9 Feb 1996, Alan Richer wrote:

> The circuit on that bulb is fairly simple:
> +12 ---- Bulb----Switch on the cold-start cable----- thermostatic switch on the 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> housing, held in place with a triangular pattern of small bolts and with a 
> slide fastener connector sticking up out of the center of it.

Well, according to my Series III factory workshop manual the light is 
only activated by a switch on the choke cable and there is no mention of 
a thermostatic switch.  This corresponds with what's on my Series III.  
However the switch is connected to the choke cable inside the steering 
column shroud.

Dean

=============================================================================
Dean Cording                                   ASPECT Computing P/L
                                               86 Northbourne Ave
Dean.Cording@aspect.com.au  (Work)             Canberra, ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA
Dean@holly.aspect.com.au    (Private)          ACN. 005 083 670

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 22:26:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Adam Leigh Kitchen <lazarus@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
Subject: BB files...

	Adam Kitchen, Ser. IIa 109 reg.
	Bryn Mawr, Pa. (close suburb of Philadelpha)
	(610) 525-5812
	Certified Emergency Medical Technician
	Basic mechanical knowlege, few tools, no garage space.
	Place to sleep for a night, breakfast is on me. 
	Directions, local knowlege, and usually a beer or two.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 06:43:40 GMT
From: mhooker@compusmart.ab.ca (Mike Hooker)
Subject: Birmabrite Brotherhood

Just a caution...
I know how tempting it is to rush to the rescue of a fellow Series owner in
trouble- just be aware(gasp) that not everyone that owns a Rover is your friend,
no matter where he got your number.
  A couple of years ago, I got a phone call 5 minutes after getting in the door
from Christmas vacation, very late New Years Day."I'm driving a Landie
cross-country and have had engine trouble...I've been staying with so-and-so
but 
his wife is fed up and I need a place for a day or two...please help!"
  I won't dig myself deeper into a "stupid" pit by boring you with the gory
details, suffice it to say that he did not "own" the Rover he was driving and
he put us through hell,along with several other local Club members before
word got around and the long-distance phone bills came in("no problem-I'll
reverse the charges!
  Trust no one.

 Mike Hooker
'62 109 Wagon                       

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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 Output: lines 1463 [content 1020  forwarded 77 (cut  203) whitespace 419]

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