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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 10:24:33 +0200 (GMT+0200)
From: Donald Abbot <donald@spl.co.za>
Subject: Re: 2.25 Fuel Pump Condition/Rebuild or new?

On Fri, 17 Nov 1995, Jeremy Bartlett wrote:

> Discos now? :)

I'm still here - owner of 1 x Series II and 1 x Series III.

Donald

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Tue, 21 Nov 1995 08:27:39 +0000
Subject:       Re: greasing leaf springs

On 21 Nov 95, Simon Barclay wrote:

> I was reading in the official Land Rover Ltd Series 1 workshop manual
> that you should strip and grease (with graphite grease) the springs,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> This was in reference to a major overhaul and didn't seem to refer to
> regular intervals as suggested with the Bentley's.
I regularly (basically just after I've power-washed the muck of the 
chassis) paint old EP90 onto my springs.

It *does* make a difference - road trips are much smoother & when 
offroading the axles flex more (and more evenly)

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 11:36:53 +0200 (GMT+0200)
From: Donald Abbot <donald@spl.co.za>
Subject: Re: More Hub & Brake Q's

On Mon, 20 Nov 1995, Tim Harincar wrote:

> - How critical are the brake drum screws? All three of mine on this side are 
> sheared off. Grrrr. I was considering taking the hub to a machine shop and 
> having them drilled out & re-tapped. Is it worth it?

I found that a metal scribe could be used to remove the part of the screw 
left in the hub. The screw is no longer under tension and should come out 
easily.

Donald

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 10:57:11 GMT
From: Steve Temple <temples@cs.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Clutch problem on LR90

Hi All,

Can anyone offer some advice on diagnosing a clutch problem on my 9
year old, 95k mile, 90 diesel?

The problem is that sometimes the clutch disengages at varying
depressions of the pedal. In some cases it will barely disengage even
with the pedal hard down on the floor. The point at which the pedal
starts to provide resistance to pressure moves around over time and is
currently half-way to the floor.

There is no problem with the hydraulic fluid level so I suspect
something wrong with either the pedal/master cylinder linkage (I hope)
or slave/clutch plate mechanism (oh dear!).

Anyone have any experience of such problems or have any suggestions?

Thanks,

--Steve

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:03:33 +1000
From: o.evans@latrobe.edu.au (Owen Evans)
Subject: Alternator woes, WAS Current leakage problem

Hello all,

I asked the list about my problem wih minor but constant and annoying
current leakage in my SIIa 1971.  I had several helpful responses, for
which I am grateful, together with all the usual variants on leakage and
LR.  Well, that was to be expected.  Surprisingly, no Lucas stories, but
this might change.

I decided to check out whatever I could in the engine compartment (I'd have
said under the bonnet, but in the vein of international communication . .
.).

My first target was a black bakelite box on the bulkhead called Alternator
Control (Lucas 4.T.R. Patented Observe Polarity).  I pulled the "plug" on
this (actually a block incorporating 4 quick connect terminals).  Result,
no leakage problem!  Further checking showed that most of the connections
went to (surprise) the alternator.  So I suspected the alternator.
Reconnected the alternator control, and disconnected the alternator at
source.  Leakage still present, so problem appears to be with this
Alternator Control.

Now those more into the Trivia end of things will be asking, as I am, SIIa
and an alternator?, and what's this control box?  My manual shows the SIIa
with a dynamo, and the SIII with alternator, but no Alternator Control box.
Moreover, the alternator in question is Lucas 15AC, not one listed in my
book even for a SIII.

So, there's every likelihood that a PO has made some mods here, but does
anyone have any clues on the Alternator Control box?  Is it needed for this
alternator?  It certainly looks genuine, but anything in ancient black
bakelite with Lucas on it can't help but look genuine.

My inclination is to throw out this control box, but I await (LRO) infinite
intelligence.

Owen Evans
SIIa 1971
Alfa 33 Quattro 1985

Jerome K Jerome wrote, in Three Men on the Bummel, that there were two ways
to enjoy a bicycle, you could either ride it, or you could take it apart
and put it back together again.  What a LR foresight!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 7:05:31 EST
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Index lro digest

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 13:37:13 +0100
From: Peter Kutschera <peter@zditr1.arcs.ac.at>
Subject: Re: Alternator woes, WAS Current leakage problem

Hello!
The "Alternator Control" is used to controll the output voltage of the 
alternator.

It should have 3 connections: D+, D- and DF. 
No idea abouth the 4th line, any label?

If you remove the box you would (should?) not get any current out of the
alternator. 

If you replace the box with a wire (D+ to DF I think - not sure) you will
overload your battery.

A new control box should not cost so much. 
( I think I also need a new one - at max RPM I only get 13V out of the 
  alternator, but 16V are required to fill the battery to the top and it 
  starts getting cold. At idle I get only 9 V ! )

Hope this helps
 Peter

Signature: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/
Landrover: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/LR

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 07:57:17 -0500
Subject: National Rally

All;       I Need to know who is in charge of the National Rally this August
in Colorado.  EXACT Dates for the rally are also needed.........If Daddy
wants to go play..... Mommy has to know by tomorrow , she has to pick her '96
vacation then.   Thanks.        Steve   WA2GMC   72 slll  88

------------------------------

From: "Steve Methley" <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 13:14:17 +0000
Subject: Re: Clutch problem on LR90

Steve asks:

>Can anyone offer some advice on diagnosing a clutch problem on my 9
>year old, 95k mile, 90 diesel?

Well it sure sounds like your cylinder seals are failing.  Since the
slave sees the most temperature cycling I'd go for that one.  It's
quite easy to change - buy a new unit for 30 quid or so at your sort
of mileage for peace of mind since the cylinder may well be scored by
now.  It's a common replacement item on RR's like mine which have
similar clutch hydraulics to your 90.
--
Best Regards,
Steve.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 08:25:52 -0500
From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi)
Subject: Re: Re: Children / Airbags

Jean wrote:
". . . the November 17 (vol 44/45)
issue of the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly report has an article on
the use / safety of airbags in front with small children.  The
article lists 8 airbag related deaths with apparently at least one
in a rearward facing seat."

Please don't take offense, but this is a meaningless statistic.  It ignores
the prior odds of the kids being killed without the airbag.  About the only
statistic that really matters is whether or not the child is more or less
likely to be hurt/killed in an airbag equipped car than in a similar car
without.  No safety device is perfect.  The point is to reduce risk, and
the 8-killed statistic doesn't speak to the issue.

If I told you that eight children were killed in accidents while in car
seats in the same period of time, would you conclude that car seats are
dangerous?  I would hope not.      -Bob Virzi

  rvirzi@gte.com             Think Globally. ===
  +1(617)466-2881                            === Act Locally!

------------------------------

From: "Steve Methley" <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 13:29:39 +0000
Subject: Re: Alternator woes, WAS Current leakage problem

Owen's alternator leakage:

>My inclination is to throw out this control box, but I await (LRO) infinite
>intelligence.

:set mode infinite intelligence
What you have is a common regulator failure mode on an alternator with
a now uncommon external regulator.  15AC means your alternator o/p
will be something like 15amps and there is no regulator inside the
alternator.

Your best bet is to replace with a 17ACR/21ACR/25ACR alternator which
has higher o/p and an internal Regulator courtesy of the modern world.

The regulator rectifies the alternator o/p and regulates the o/p current
via the field winding current.  Your regulator rectifier pack has one
or more bad diodes (there are most likely 6 diode rectifiers inside)
which are allowing current to leak in the reverse direction.  You may
also find your charging capacity is below par too.
:unset mode infinite intelligence

good luck,
--
Best Regards,
Steve.

------------------------------

From: Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com
Date: 21 Nov 95 08:35:03 -0500
Subject: Schizophrenic Turn Signals

Picked up my new '96 Disco last night and at the third right turn the turn 
signal indicator went schizophrenic on me, quick-flashing at 2 or 3 times 
the normal rate, just as has been reported by several readers.

1. I put the left signal on and got out and looked at all the lights.

2. I put the right signal on and did the same, noticing any differences.

3. The lower rear turn signal, the one built into the bumper, was not on or 
blinking.

4. I reached behind the light and jiggled the connector and the light 
blinked momentarily (at the correct speed) until I let go.

5. I cleaned the sticky, black tar-like substance off my hand that covers 
everything behind the bumper.

Theory: The rustproof coating is applied hot and either gummed up the 
connector or actually melted or damaged it. I could not see (dark out) but 
the connector just pushed on and pulled off with no positive engagement. 
When the connector was off, the bulb was not inside it but remains in the 
housing.

At least there are two separate signal lights on each side in the back so 
the signals still work. [Verify this for yourself, don't assume your problem 
is the same. A blown bulb in the front would also cause the quick-flashing.]

Mark

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 21 Nov 95  8:38:53 EST
Subject: I need a step up...

What does the entry step on a Series vehicle atach to? I need to attach side 
steps to my 109, as the leather uphostery is simply too high for comfortable 
step-up entry. My 10-year-old's getting tired of using a rope to get into the 
cab...<grin>

Also, is there any marked advantage to the folding side steps as sold by LR? I 
personally can't see the point of hinge mechanisms out in the mud and was 
considering using a simple yoke step or some such. I  figure as ong as I stay 
above the height of the diff. bottom, i'm not losing any clearance.

     Opinions?

     Alan

P.S.: She Who Must Be Obeyed still will NOT set foot in the 109. Oh, well....8*(

     ajr

------------------------------

Date: 21 Nov 95 08:41:37 EST
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Installing rear seats - repost

I am sorry I have not had time to follow LRO for the past few weeks... I have
gotten several requests to repost an article on seats for my D90... here is the
post.

Once I get my garage interior finished, I'll do one on sealing the windshield
frame and a post-mortem on my 416 trailer that is about done -- it looks
awesome!

Cheers, 

R. P. Reid

*****Attached post*****

"The latest in a series on how to add the best features of a Series Land 
Rover to your D90. So far have added a pintle-hitch, trailer wiring, 
gaiters and now -- an inward-facing bench seat.
How to add an inward-facing bench seat:
I ordered my seat from BLRS in Birmingham.  I ordered a "Rear Bench Seat, 
Complete" in Neptune Cloth, which is similar (although not identical) to 
the Spec. D90 upholstery. Price, including shipping, was about 1/3rd the 
cost of vinyl seat from U.S. Suppliers and 1/6th the cost of a LRNA 
optional seat.  The seat comes without any hardware, so the first order 
of business is to assemble the following hardware:
For attaching the seat back to the seat base:
	2  1" allen-head machine screws (or similar)
	6  flat washers
	2  nylock nuts
	(All 1/4 inch)

For attaching the seat back to the fender well:
	2  7/16 bolts
	2  7/16 lockwashers
	2  7/16 nuts
	2  7/16 large flat washers

For attaching the seat back to the rear box lip:
	2  1/4 x 2" bolts
	2  nuts
	2  lockwashers
	2  1 1/2" spacers
	2  large flat washers

For attaching the seat back pillow to the frame:
	4  1/2" long stainless phillips screws

Also, a set of shoelaces to secure the bottom pillow to the seat frame 
once installed.

The seat appears to be a straightforward installation....but, appearances 
can be deceiving.  The roll cage diagonal support interferes with the 
seat back, so it must be mounted about 1 1/2 inches away from the box 
sides. Also, moving the seat too far rearward (to try to clear the 
diagonal) can interfere with the speakers.  Also, because the rear lip on 
the D90 is boxed, you can't get your hands in to put the nuts on the 
bolts, so you have to drill your holes for bolts close to the only two 
openings large enough to get your fingers in....

Locate the seat back so that it clears the bed lip by about 1 1/2 inches 
and that the rear part of the frame is about 1 inch from the end of the 
lip near rear panel. This boxed-section is open at the end and you will 
be able to reach in and put the lockwasher on the bolt later on.  When 
lined up in this position, the forward part of the seatback should be 
close to a 3"x2" opening in the boxed section at the base of the roll 
cage.  This gives you the other opening where you can reach in with a nut 
and lockwasher.

Once you have your seat aligned, mark the location to bolt the seat back 
to the floor.  Cut two small holes in the rear mat and then drill a 
pilot and a 7/16" hole through the aluminum fender.  Bolt this in place, 
but don't tighten fully... you will be taking it out again.

Mark the seat back and the bed lip where you want the 2" top securing 
bolts to go through.  You will have to guestimate a bit, but a level may 
help. Remove the seatback and drill 1/4" holes in both the seat back and 
in the section of the bed.

Re-install the seatback (but don't tighten.. you will take it out again!) 
and line-up the 2" bolts into the holes.  You will now need to install 
some kind of spacer to maintain the 1 1/2" space between the seatback and 
the bed. I used 1/4" ID aluminum tubing, cutting each piece to fit (there 
is no set length here, just cut what works).

Once this is done, take the seatback out again, leaving the 2" bolts in 
place hanging through the holes.  Install the seatback using the 4 
stainless phillips screws (there is exposed fibreboard on the seats as 
shipped from BLRS. I attached a piece of black naugahyde over the exposed 
fiberboard using contact cement... both for asthetics and to protect it 
from water.) Now install the bolts through the fenderwell.  Put on the 
lockwasher and a large flat washer up against the fender.  I coated mine 
with Silicone caulk because I don't want water coming in through the 
hole.  Install the 2" bolts with the spacer, a large flat washer, put 
through your hole in the box section and then put on a lock washer and 
a nut.  This will be tough to tighten but it can be done.  You will have 
to reach into the box section and hold the nut with your finger until it 
gets tight.

Now install the seat bottom using the washers, allen screw and nylock nut 
to keep it from vibrating loose. Tie the bottom pillow in place and 
you're done...you have a seat.  The whole process took about 2 hours, 
including 2 trips to the hardware store. 

**DISCLAIMER** I recommend NOT using this seat while the vehicle is 
moving unless you install approved seatbelts.  Since I plan really only 
to use it as a place to sit to clean shotguns and smoke cigars, I do not 
have seatbelts.  This installation is not to be intended to imply that 
inward-facing bench seats provide adequate protection for passengers in 
the event of an accident. Use these seats for passengers at your own risk.

Anyway...next installment will probably be either the installation of a 
gun/security box on the other fenderwell or, perhaps, a work-light.

Cheers,
R. Pierce Reid "

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 21 Nov 1995 08:54:00 -0500 
From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" <chrisz@bnr.ca>
Subject:  re:The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest 

From: a-robw@microsoft.com
>Please let us know what they find/fix for this. It's a good thing you were 
>only 100 yards off the highway. Has anyone had the "opportunity" to try the 
>"Road-side" recovery  when far from the road side (e.g. way off road)?

I have not yet gotten that stuck. I did get firmly planted in a swamp once.
When I came up to it, it looked like an innocent mud hole. Once I got about
half way across it got bogged down and spent the next 2 hours getting myself
out. My pride would not allow me to call "off-road-side assistance". As I was
digging, I noticed that this innocent mud hole was really the edge of a swamp!
I did get out, continued along my way and discovered it was a dead end!! Yup
had to go back through that hole. However this time I carefully planned my
trek across and just barely made it.

The only really bad part of the experience was the 33C heat and the deer
flies which discovered a new salt lick. All this while my wife was sitting
inside running the A/C. She likes the ride but not the work :-\

Anyway, that was not the point of my post. A local fellow who bought a '95
Disco (I won't metion names) did get high centered in the Gatineau's. Off-
road-side assistance did come and get him. He has a winch now.

The dealer told me that this kind of thing was covered (in fact bragged
about it). He said you have up to 2 men and 3 hours to help extract you,
after that you get billed.

Cheers,
  -Christian
---------------
Christian Szpilfogel
'95 Discovery
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

From: Marcus Haas <marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
Subject: Unimog URL
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 13:49:26 +0000 (GMT)

One of our more regular contributors (I forget who, sorry!) used to
include the URL for a Unimog WWW page.  Could someone be so kind as
to email it to me?

Thanks.

Marcus.
(marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 10:44:32 -0500
From: benedick@pa.net (KRIS/DARWYN BENEDICT)
Subject: Subscribe LR Daily Digest & Owner List

Please, add us to the LR Daily Digest List & Owner List.  My real name is
Kris Benedict and I own a 94 Disco.

Can't Wait to start reading the digest.

Thanks!
Kris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 09:35:56 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: Tim Hariner hub questions

Tim,
The brake spings on your 88 are as follows. Top spring (the one with the
long straight section) goes from upper right, to the pin on the backing
plate. The lower sping (no straight section) goes between the bottom two,
and all springs must be in the back, between the backing plate and the
shoes. The easiest way we have found to set this up is... Set the two pads
down, remember to get one of each, if you are doing more than one wheel.
You need one with no adjuster pin, and one with (some cheapo brake pads
don't even have the pin, you have to put a bolt in for the pin, but we'll
assume you bought the good stuff) Install the lo wer spring from the back
side. Now pick up the rig, and keep the spring inplace. Put one side on the
bottom pin, and wrestle the other side over the pin. If you do it right the
pads will now just sit there on the backing plate waiting for the top
spring. Makes things a lot easier, especially since the springs are
supposed to be behind the pads. Now put the top spring on, by sticking it
in the upper, rear pads whole, then I use needle nose pliers to slip it on
the pin on the backing plate. The long straight part goes towards the
backing plate pin, not the sping. If you connect the sping (shoe to shoe)
on the top, instead of shoe to backing plate pin, you have too much return,
and have to pump the brakes like crazy to get anything. The pin on the
front shoe is for the adjuster, not a spring.
Yes you should drill and tap your brake drums. They help take pressure off
the studs that hold your wheels on. The braking power is transfered through
the studs and these screws. They all should be there.
The 90w out of your hub flange is normal. It means that unlike some Rovers,
you actaully had some in there! The hub flange bolts do get dry, just clean
an lightly lube to install. The front axle is a full floater. This means
fluid can flow from one side to the other. When you get the new felt, and
gasket installed, check your swivel ball oil level, and top it back up. The
fill and drain are on the swivel housing casting, and you can't miss them.
Put a piece of fuel line hose on the end of a bottle of 90w, creates a bit
less mess during filling. Manuals say to pack the bearings, It is a good
idea, but even we don't do it all the time on our own stuff.
Hope this helps.

Mike Smith, East Coast Rover Co.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 08:38:20 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: 109" Frame Plans?

> Although wonderfully light and corrosion resistant it does not have the 
> strength and stress resistance of steel, being more prone to cracking 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> the frame after every heavy off-road trip...
>  Cheers.

Actually, a number of heavy truck makers  (Peterbuilt is one I think) make 
their frames out of aluminum. If you use the proper alloy & thickness 
I think it would be fine. However, one thing that gives LR's their 
low center of gravity is the heavy frame. You'd loose that with 
aluminum.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Brazelle, Amy (TRW)" <brazelle@hsv.mdc.com>
Subject: Steering Stabilizer
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 08:40:00 PST

Hello, for the first time.  Greetings from Dixie.  Believe it or not, but 
there are a few Rover nuts even in the deep south.

My wife had email at her office (just subsribe to lro-digest a few weeks 
ago) and has been updating me with info that she has read about Series 
Rovers.  She doesn't have very much time to read it so we miss a lot of the 
info on the digest.  We will soon be purchasing a PC for our home which will 
enable me to follow the digest on a daily basis.

I have been the PROUD owner of a '66 109 IIA SW for a year now - a vehicle 
my son refers to as "The lean green leaking machine" and my wife simply 
calls it "The money pit ! ".   I have been making improvements to the Rover 
since I have owned it beginning with replacing both rear axle halfs the week 
after I brought it home.  I wish I could say that the long shaft broke while 
pulling a suburban out of a ditch or powering my way up a muddy slope, 
however it actually snapped while backing out of the driveway with a load of 
friends who wanted to take a ride around the block in "that strange 
vehicle".

Hunting season has begun which requires that I traverse management roads 
with deep ruts.  I am considering purchasing a steering stabilizer.  Has 
anyone installed one on a Series II and if so, what type did you use and 
where did you buy it?  I don't think that Rovers North carries them.  I 
believe I saw a "Rancho" type on a Series Rover in a magazine.  I would 
appreciate any recommendations.  Thanks!!!

Bryan Brazelle
Huntsville, Alabama USA
brazelle@hsv.mdc.com  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 09:49:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Re: Children / Airbags

On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Robert A. Virzi wrote:

> If I told you that eight children were killed in accidents while in car
> seats in the same period of time, would you conclude that car seats are
> dangerous?  I would hope not.      -Bob Virzi

	Ahhhh, we're talking about those things that explode out of the 
	dash.  I figured that the air bags being discussed (with all their 
	destructive force) was when the mother-in-law was riding in the
	passenger seat.  Now, that is dangerous too...

	Rgds,

	:-)

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 08:51:44 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Re: Children / Airbags

> Please don't take offense, but this is a meaningless statistic.  It ignores
> the prior odds of the kids being killed without the airbag.  About the only
> statistic that really matters is whether or not the child is more or less
> likely to be hurt/killed in an airbag equipped car than in a similar car
> without.
Actually I'd think you'd need to compare it to the number of kid's 
exposed to but  *not* killed by airbags, compared to the number of 
kids killed in the front seat of non-airbag equiped cars.
If a total of ten were exposed to deploying airbags, I'd say they were unsafe.
I suspect there is a valid reason the NHTSA says not to use child
seats in the front with airbag equiped cars.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 09:09:06 -0600
Subject: Hub Rebuild, con't...

Hi again,

I.

Hit a road block last night on my hub project ('66 IIa 88). I can't extract 
the inner oil seal from the hub, preventing me from removing the bearing. Any 
tricks? I thought of pounding out the whole race/bearing/seal assembly from 
the inside, but I don't have a brass drift and really didn't want to remove 
the races if I didn't have to.

My guess, from the condition of the outside of the hub and seal is that they 
may be rusted together. Any other methods of removing this little bugger? 
Haynes says "prise out the oil seal and remove the bearing..." - thanks a lot 
:-). Anyone in real-time got a quick answer? I was hoping to continue 
tonight...

II.

I want to sand blast and paint the exposed components. My father-in-law has a 
sand blasting kit with his compressor (typical 4 hp home type unit). I have 
never sand blasted anything before. How easy is it to damage the bare metal 
components - i.e. races, inside of the brake drum, etc. Obviuosly, I'd try to 
aviod hitting those areas, but should I be super careful, kinda careful, not-
to-worry?

III.

P.S. To my brake shoe spring problem. I was wrong. The spring goes from the 
leading shoe to a post on the back plate, as Chris from RN said. This is a 
prime example of why it is good to take notes while doing any job that has 
multiple components. In less than 24 hours, I had compleatly reversed the 
correct assembly. Sorry to waste bandwidth.

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

From: Treit Le <Treit_Le@apprise.com>
Date: 21 Nov 95 10:19:08 
Subject: Wind noise

I have a significant amount of wind noise in my '95 Classic. The person on the 
other end of a cellular call said that it seemed loud to him. It sounds like 
the window is open a crack. This is at 65mph+ with all windows, sunroof and 
vents closed and ventilation turned off. Is this normal? That, the AT 
transmission lever being loose in "D" and glove compartment door needing to be 
slammed are my only "problems" in the first 3K miles.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 10:01:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: my mid-life crisis

Hey, it worked for me...

A man at where my wife works is going thru a mid-life
crisis.  Janice is watching all the antics and we chuckle
about them at home.  This guy is trying to have some
fun, but he is really working hard to accomplish it.     
New divorce, new hair, new car, new clothes, new women and
no respect.

I told Janice that I didn't want to go thru a mid-life
crisis.  The payback of chasing all the women just wasn't
worth the effort.  I told her that what I really wanted was 
"...just another old landrover...".  I told her that this was
common amoungst land rover owners and "...that dixon has 12..."

Something clicked that night -- she thought for a few seconds. 
I knew she was doing some serious soul-searching.  Her only 
words to me was:  "...ok, you can get another land rover, but 
it has to be a good one..."  I was caught flat-footed, but 
managed to mumble "...whatever you think is right, dear...".

Getting a good one is going to be tough for me.  I am a
bottom-fisher that attempts to buys cheap and then 
spends $4000 to save $1000.  Old habits die hard.

But wait, mates, don't start sending email about those
junkers you are attempting to unload.  I am going to be
selective.  I have spent the past couple of weeks saying
to myself s1/sii, 88/109, petrol/diesel, lightweight?  And 
each day the decision is different.  It is fun going thru the
old issues of LRO, AL Workhoure, and RN/AB listings and 
re-reading the for sale ads.  I even made a phone call last
night on an attractive sounding 8-month ad, but no answer...

But I have settled on one thing -- and I think I am 
paraphrasing dixon, -- my new land rover will 
"...have leaf springs and a metal dash...".

Stay tuned for the next update...

Ray Harder (61 SIIa -- Lulu)

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: The Retro Fit Air(or Gas)Bag
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 16:15:34 GMT

There is available,at great expense,as Dixon so nobly points
out,a retro fit airbag for Series machines.
However,to fit this awe inspiring piece of equipment there is
a prerequisite.One must acquire oneself a wife,should one not
alredy possess such an item.With each of these comes the airbag
itself,if you've worked it right,to whit item,mothers in law,
one,sweet fanny adams for the use of,one.The acquisiton of a 
suitable spouse I leave to the ingenuity of the reader,since
methods vary from country to country,and Land Rover owners are
generally a pretty ingenious lot.
You should be aware that the equipment comes with audio output,
which cannot be deleted from the specification,nor,moreover,
can it be switched off(no doubt for safety reasons).It is this
feature that makes the old....er..airbag especially suited to
the oily wadder series machine,since with judicious throttle
control the audio O/P generic to the Oily Wad Land Rover can be
made to match,or even exceed the airbag wattage.
To install,open the passenger side door,first having donned
suitable ear defenders(pun,sorry),probably available at cost
from RN,should any of their staff be wedded,or even betrothed.
Be sure to ask.Next,place a suitable block of wood beneath the
entrance,(do *not* use your axle stands,you may need them at
some stage,and its a shame to ruin perfectly serviceable pieces
of equipment),and get out,hire,or steal(the latter is preferable)
an engine crane.I should perhaps have mentioned that the equipment
*is* heavy duty.Attach,via the engine crane,a length of rope,under
the handbag(purse)handling members of the airbag and lift into
the cab.Note:attaching the rope immediately under the audio output
device is *not* recommended should the installation operation have
drawn a crowd,particularly if said crowd numbers amongst it members
of the local constabulary.It will also render the operation to date
useless,since the airbag output and audio output are irretrievably
connected.Damage to one renders the other useless.
The engine crane is not absolutely essential,the block of wood,plced
as a step may be used,providing you have understanding neighbours
to replace the function of the crane.Close the door,and drive away.
The benefits will be immediately obvious.the volume of air generated
is directly proportional to the speed of advance,and since it is
generated in a forward direction,it impinges upon the windshield,
forming an impenetrable barrier between the driver and any hard
object in front of him.The drivers nose will also be found to be
kept pleasantly warm.However,all the marks manufactured to date
have a side effect which,as yet,science has failed to eradicate.
The drivers ears will be found to be painfully burning.The ear
defenders do not seem to make much difference in this respect,
but rumour has it that as a stopgap,a refrigerated set is to
come on the market shortly.
It is said in some quarters that Land Rover are shortly to
bring out a *three* airbag Discovery.Apparently,this model
will be easily identifiable by the existance of a large round
hatch above the passenger seat.From what little information I
have been able to glean,the driver merely has to utter,in a
frustrated and ill-tempered manner,facing the passenger seat,
the words "Foxtrot Oscar",and the third airbag will deploy,
also the hatch.
However,due to the habit of many drivers of Land Rover products,
of carrying multiple six packs on the passenger seat,research
is said to still be under way to prevnet accidental deployment.
Land Rover are,apparently,not short of volunteers for this phase
of development,but publicans in Solihull are reportedly less than
pleased,since their custom has inexplicably dropped off since the
project started,and Land Rover are buying the beer required direct
from the brewery.The main problem to be overcome is that rapid
reduction in weight of the six-packs,once the vehicle is under way,
and after a short while,the apparent increased attraction to the vehicle
of obstacles such as large trees.This phenomenon has yet to be
explained.I have no doubt that LRO will feature a full report in
due course.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 21 Nov 95 10:45:16 EST
Subject: Relative dangers to the LR/RR owner...

It's been getting too damn stuffy in here.....

I will agree that the discussion on airbags is important, but there are many 
other things that bedevil the true scion of the Land/Range Rover breed.

Many of these things are common among the thoroughbreds from the Solihull farm, 
but each member of the family has its own perils, too.

For all, of course there are many hazards to ownership. Among these are:

>Weak kidneys from the vibration at over 40 MPH.

>Penury from purchasing all the fuel that our thirsty steeds need.

>Death by crushing while trying to retrieve that elusive part from the bottom 
wreck in a 4-car pile at the breaker's yard.

>Cancer from cleaning up all the puddles of 90wt. in the driveway.

and so on....

Series owners do not have it easy, as our vehicles are the oldest of the 
marque. For us, we brave other problems as well a the hazards listed above. 

>Being shot by the Jag owner at the car club meet when the mud from you car 
gets on his $10K paint job.

>Carbon Monoxide poisoning from all the leaky seams in the firewall and 
footboxes.

>Death by chagrin from being laughed at by all the Jeep owners as they pass us 
on the highway.

>Alzheimer's Disease from constant exposure to all that aluminum.

>Deafness from the +90DBm noise level at 50MPH...

> Nervous breakdown from having your 4-wheel beloved called a Toyota by the 
local hoodlums.

Range Rover owners, while being luckier than their Series compatriots by having 
vehicles that were not designed during the last Ice Age, still must muddle 
through the dangers of Rover ownership.

>Barfights over diff locked/diff unlocked arguments in restaurants.

>Apoplexy over the cost of replacement steering boxes on the discovery of a 
leak.

>Hernias while trying to lift the bull bar onto the front mounts during 
installation.

>Severe psychological discomfort over the paint scratches the SO keeps giving 
you hell over.

> Series owners trying to steal your axles for coil-over rebuilds.

Defender and Discovery owners, while not unlike Range Rover owners, mst work 
through ever-different challenges, being the "new kids" on the block They have 
problems all their own...

> Food poisoning from having the pate de foie gras go bad while out in the 
jungle.

> Sticker shock over the insurance on what is considered a luxury vehicle.

> Being harassed in airport parking because the FAA thinks Rovers are 
"Terrorist Vehicles". Come to think of it...they may be right....witness Dixon!

>Inability to pass a Premium gas pump.

>Finding out your onboard computer WON'T play "Myst"...or run "Windows '95".....

Ours is a hard life.....

   Tongue being surgically removed from cheek, Alan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 11:27:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jon Moody (BME)" <mood@rad.unc.edu>
Subject: Range Rover...

Hi all thanks for the replies re '88 range rover.  I actaully ended up
seeing a '90 w/ 80K for $15.5K. Questions.
1. Any estimates as to what annual maintance cossts would be?
2. Gas milage on average for RR`s.
3. Reliabilty?
4. I'm finishing up as a grad student, am I crazy to be considering this?
5. Any other major weak spots besides power steering pump, and rust in the
footwells?
6. How parts availibilty and costs?

THanks for all the input.

Jon Moody 

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Re: National Rally
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 09:50:28 -0700 (MST)

Steve asks: 

 All;       I Need to know who is in charge of the National Rally this August
 in Colorado.  EXACT Dates for the rally are also needed.........If Daddy
 wants to go play..... Mommy has to know by tomorrow , she has to pick her '96
 vacation then.   Thanks.        Steve   WA2GMC   72 slll  88
 
Don't assume it's always in Colorado in August (if you were assuming).  
It's just that Solihull Society (the Colorado club) is on a roll, and we'd 
like to keep it rolling at least to the LR 50th anniversary.  The rally 
was held for several years in Utah.

That said, the 1996 rally is *very tentatively* set for Aug. 8-14 in 
Colorado.  I am not involved in organizing it, and I am not sure anybody 
has stepped forward to take full charge.

T. F. Mills
tomills@du.edu                               University of Denver Library
http://www.du.edu/~tomills                          Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 08:50:15 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Re. Oil Filled Hub

If its apart, I'd say you should be replacing the seal at the end of 
the axle housing, then repacking and seating the bearings.  It seems 
like filling the hub with 90wt would be trickier than packing with 
grease (the grease stays roughly where it's put).  The more 90wt you've 
got in your hubs the more likely you are to have some leak into the 
brake drum...

cheers,

Jeremy

P.S.  Don't use a cold chisel on the hub nuts :)

------------------------------

Date: 21 Nov 95 11:54:50 EST
From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com>
Subject: Hub Rebuild, con't...

 >> Hit a road block last night on my hub project ('66 IIa 88). I can't
extract the inner oil seal from the hub, preventing me from removing the
bearing. Any tricks? I thought of pounding out the whole race/bearing/seal
assembly from the inside, but I don't have a brass drift and really didn't
want to remove the races if I didn't have to. <<

 I always removed mine with a large screwdriver and a adjustable wrench. I
used the wrench to turn the screwdriver and press the seal out. It never
required much force, so there was no damage to the bearing, but if you are not
planing on replacing the bearing, you might use a flat washer or something
similar to help protect the bearing.

     -------------------
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|
   |     |   ###   |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |     | ####### |     |      1990 RangeRover
   |_____|_#######_|_____|
  [_______________________]
     |\/|           |\/|

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 21-Nov-1995

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 12:11:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Relative dangers to the LR/RR owner...

On 21 Nov 1995, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote:

> It's been getting too damn stuffy in here.....

	Oh?  :-)

> >Weak kidneys from the vibration at over 40 MPH.

	40?  Try 4... But, you've cheated I understand and put radials
	on your pretty 109.

> >Death by crushing while trying to retrieve that elusive part from the bottom 
> wreck in a 4-car pile at the breaker's yard.

	That's why you get a winch.  To pull the piles apart first.

> >Cancer from cleaning up all the puddles of 90wt. in the driveway.
> and so on....

	Ahhh, you clean these?  I'm parking the 109 in different spots to 
	make them blend together.  Then the driveway looks like it was newly
	coated, just like the neighbours who have this affliction that 
	requires them to paint with some black goo...  Of course, the 
	occasional  Exxon Valdez speeds the process up too...
	
> >Being shot by the Jag owner at the car club meet when the mud from you car 
> gets on his $10K paint job.

	No, no, no...  You straddle the $70k Jag with a pair of Land Rovers.
	The Jag owner has a coronary when he notices his new neighbours
	at the show...  He will never notice the migrating mud...

> >Deafness from the +90DBm noise level at 50MPH...

	Ahhh, yes, Mike Rooth's comments earlier today.

	Rgds,

	:-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 95 09:18:29 +0100
From: sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt)
Subject: Virus alert !!!

        Hi folks,
and now something completely different.....
I`ve got this forwarded message today and even it doesn=B4t concern anything
related to Land Rover it seems to be important for us as internet user.

There is a computer virus that is being sent across the Internet. If
you receive
an e-mail message with the subject line "Good Times", DO NOT read the=
 message,
DELETE it immediately. Please read the messages below.

Some miscreant is sending e-mail under the title "good times" nation-wide.=
 If
you get anything like this, DON'T DOWN LOAD THE FILE! It has a virus that
rewrites your hard drive, obliterating anything on it. Please be careful and
forward this mail to anyone you care about--I have.

*********************Forwarded Message****************************
WARNING!!!!!!!!!: INTERNET VIRUS

The FCC released a warning last Wednesday concerning a matter of major
importance to any regular user of the InterNet.  Apparently, a new computer
virus has been engineered by a user of America Online that  is unparalleled=
 in
its destructive capability. Other, more well-known viruss such as Stoned,
Airwolf, and Michaelangelo pale in comparison to the prospects of this=
 newest
creation by a warped mentality.
What makes this virus so terrifying, said the FCC, is the fact that no=
 program
needs to be exchanged for a new computer to be infected. It can be spread
through the existing e-mail systems of the InterNet. Once a computer is
infected, one of several things can happen. If the computer contains a hard
 drive, that will most likely be destroyed. If the program is not stopped,=
 the
computer's processor will be placed in an nth-complexity infinite binary=
 loop -
 which can severely damage the processor if left running that way too long.
 Unfortunately, most novice computer users will not realize what is=
 happening
 until it is far too late.
Luckily, there is one sure means of detecting what is now known as the "Good
 Times" virus. It always travels to new computers the same way in a text=
 e-mail
 message with the subject line reading simply "Good Times".

Avoiding infection is easy once the file has been received - not reading it.
The act of loading the file into the mail server's ASCII buffer causes the
 "Good Times" mainline program to initialize and execute. The program is=
 highly
intelligent - it will send copies of itself to everyone whose e-mail address=
 
is contained in a received-mail file or a sent- mail file, if it can find=
 one. 
It will then proceed to trash the computer it is running on.
The bottom line here is - if you receive a file with the subject line "Good
 Times", delete it immediately!    Do not read it!     Rest assured that
whoever's name was on the "From:" line was surely struck by the virus.

Warn your friends and local system users of this newest threat to the=
 InterNet!
It could save them a lot of time and money.

------------------------------ end  ---------------------------

I=B4ve heard that some mailer as next-mail or z-mailer are in great danger,
because they load a file before deleting. So please be careful.

happy rovering...:-)
Ciao Kurt

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Wed, 22 Nov 1995 08:01:35 +0000
Subject:       Re: I need a step up...

> Also, is there any marked advantage to the folding side steps as
> sold by LR? I personally can't see the point of hinge mechanisms
> out in the mud and was considering using a simple yoke step or
> some such. I  figure as ong as I stay above the height of the
> diff. bottom, i'm not losing any clearance.
Take into account the clearance *between* the wheels.

The thing that tends to knock side-steps off is not ground-clearance 
but bashing them sideways as your bodywork bounces off a hard object.

Most damage I've seen is either rust to the hinge areas or bent 
frameworks.

Just my 0.02

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Wed, 22 Nov 1995 08:08:30 +0000
Subject:       Re: 2.25 Fuel Pump Condition/Rebuild or new?

> > Hey are there any Series owner left on the LRO Digest list or is it all 
> > Discos now? :)
> I'm still here - owner of 1 x Series II and 1 x Series III.
Who has the list of Rover Names - that'll remind us of the legions of 
Series motors out there....

(BTW - Lucas is a Series III 109, reg LCS 210 W)

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 08:55:42 +0001
From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili)
Subject: Re: a cradle to roll a vehicle

>Yes, Roy, this is what I was talking about...
>And...?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>I like your ASCII art.
>Jan
Well.... uhmm. that is a little embarassing story, but what the heck. When
we were heading for the Polish/German frontier we were shot by two Polish
policemen with radar guns, since we were driving to fast ( 90 km/h instead
of 40 km/h). But then the Polish were driving a very old Polonez( Polish
assembly of a Fiat 128) and they just couldn't speed up with us.( I was then
driving a red Toyota Landcruiser 2.4 turbocharged diesel) and we got away
with it. I assume the radio of the police went flat also, because I've never
seen the entire brigade following us and I guess we were lucky at that time.

Two miles away from the frontier we were once again shot by two Polish
policemen with radar guns. 100 yrds behind them they had thrown up a road
block( the policeradio was working afterall :-) ) and we just had to stop.
The two policemen looked very impressive with their machineguns and all that
stuff!

Well we got a ticket for speeding and had to pay 500.000 slotty, wich we
didn't have anymore, since we bought some tools and a blueprint of that
ingenious piece of equipment to tilt a car on its side. After a lot of
talking we could pay the policemen of with these tools, beer and the
equipment, and also $23( = 500.000 slotty ).

So, Jan , I'm sorry but I don't have these blueprints any more ;-)

LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR
                ____
      |   _____/|__||   Roy Wassili,<wassili@amc.uva.nl>
      |  /(-8|  \   |   Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66
  ____|_/[]__|__\___|#  scarved for live
 |] __=|     |  __  |#
[|_/  \|_____|_/  \_|]
  ( o )        ( o )

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 23:52:38 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: full cash refund

> But then, where could I put my cellular phone? And would I have enough
> cargo space for all those bottles of wine, wedges of goat cheese, and 
> crates of arugula? 8-)

Well, I keep one on the ledge by the vents (next to the power inverter for 
the laptop) and one on the bench next to me.  The microcassette recorder (for 
notes) goes on the center seat with the flip-phone, and the laptop on the far 
seat, or soon, on a custom stand floating above the shift levers.  I usually 
leave the printer in its case when traveling.

The *cases* of wine go directly behind the front seats, crates of arugula on 
the roof rack (they're ligtht) and the goat cheese in the garbage.  I'll 
stick to real cheese (mozzarella) on my pizza, thank you!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 02:34:32 -0500
Subject: Selling My 109" (Repost)

Hello all:

Well,  63 days and counting till the estimated January 24 due date of our
second child.   (Yes, the human version, not a Rover this time)   The
Sonogram and other indicators tell us it's a boy this time.  

All this brings me around to reposting my earlier entry about Hugo, my 109".
  I bought Hugo on June 14,  literally days prior to being informed of my
re-entry into fatherhood.    To get to the point, I need to recoup my money
to pay for the new heir to the throne.    We're self employed, have excellent
casualty insurance but no maternity benefits.  

I've had several very good inquiries but distance seems to kill the deal more
than price or anything else.    Michael Slade, out in Oregon, sent film and
*two pages* of details to shoot photographs of.    I see in a recent posting
by him that he has since aquired a 109 fairly close to him.    (Michael, if
you're reading this, perhaps you could comment to the list on Hugo based on
the comprehensive photos.   You've already found yours,  you don't know me,
and would have no reason to offer anything but an un-biased opinion.)

In all honesty,  Hugo would make an excellent second (or tenth) Rover or a
first for someone in heat to experience Roverhood.   The entire repost
follows:

                             *********Begin Repost**********

Well.....alas....:-( ...guess I can't keep everything.    A new baby in the
oven ($$$), another 88" Rover thats crying for new toys,  several unfinished
Alfa Romeo projects and a ham radio habit tend to eat away at my toy money.
  I've decided to put Hugo up for adoption.    

Hugo is a VERY straight 1966  Series IIA,  109"  5 door wagon.  (VIN #
826630765)
No signs of major collision or repair during his 29 years.   Wears size
235/85/16 Goodyear Wrangler shoes on his rims,  with 90% of their tread
remaining. 
Standard green in color,  sports a white tropical roof panel with the oval
horizontal
windows  in the top section.   All guages work except for the odometer
itself. ( The speedometer works fine.)    *Excellent* oil pressure.
   Original
(except for alternator and Rochester carb conversion) and relatively clean
and un-butchered under the hood (bonnet, for some of you).    Sold, serviced
and maintained by Harrell Motor Sales most of his life (one of the first Land
Rover Dealers in the US back in the 'old days'......Ted, the chief mechanic,
 has been with Harrells more than 40 years).

Hugo anxiously cranks and runs on demand,  is a non smoker,  and recently
passed the stringent North Carolina DMV inspection with an excellent report
card.   Has excellent floorboards,  NO rust where you'd expect it around the
bottom of the bulkhead.  The outriggers show some patching but overall the
frame passes the hammer and screwdriver test with flying colors.    Comes
with set of new 'Genuine' door seals,  yet to be installed,  and other
various parts that I've accumulated,  including an old original parts manual.

So what does he need?   Mostly cosmetic stuff.....a set of seats,  seat
covers,  or a new roll of duct tape.   Could use a new  headliner,  and a
rear exhaust section, and lower sliding window channels.    Could use spring
mount bushings if your really picky.   Right rear taillight lens is cracked.
  Actually,  a type A  'anal' personality could probably quickly spend a
grand on trivial toys, goodies and pretty things but Hugo is fully ready and
serviceable just as he stands.

I need to get $8650. (US) or a very near reasonable offer in order to let
Hugo leave.  Cash or certified bank funds only. Visitors are welcome.    If
you're seriously interested and have more questions feel free to call (704)
289-6303 or email.

Thanks all.
Cordially:
Rick Crider   <rickcrider@aol.com>
111 S.  Hayne  St.
Monroe  NC  28112   (Thats near Charlotte NC)

' 66 IIA  109"       Hugo
' 73 III    88"        Jesse
' 88 Range Rover (the daily mule)
.....and more Alfa's than I'm willing to admit.
                              
                                          **********End Repost*********

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 16:11:14 +1000
From: o.evans@latrobe.edu.au (Owen Evans)
Subject: Re: Alternator woes

Just a short summary of responses to my query, and a thank you to those who
took the trouble, and to the list as a whole.

1.  Notwithstanding the information that I had, SIIa was available with an
alternator as an option.  I guess I could have found this out if I'd been
using a genuine LR manual.  An offer of a copy of the circuit diagram was
made.

2.  The separate Alternator Control was used in some early alternator
systems.  I was unaware of this, being familiar only with alternators with
the integral control.

3.  If there is something wrong with the Control, I'm probably getting poor
charging too.  True.

4.  The main suggestion was to throw out the existing alternator and
control, and replace with a (higher capacity) alternator with integral
control.  It may come to this.

5.  Install a big main power switch.  I may do this anyway.

By chance, a colleague here has offered to lend me a spare 4.T.R. Control
box that he had for a Rover 2000 car.  I'll give this a try before I do
anything more substantial.

Once again, many thanks to those who offered help.

Owen Evans
SIIa 1971

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 21:22:29 -0500
From: 7direct@inch.com (alain boyer)
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Hi everyone,
I live in NYC U.S.A  and I have a 91 RR county but last night someone who
probably needed a spare part stole my front bush guard... :(.
I don't want to spend  $1200.00 for a new one so if someone has a used one
or can suggest a clone that would fit on the front of the RR please let me
know.

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re:children/airbags/mothers in-law
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 13:49:46 +1030 (CST)

Dixon venturing out onto thin Canadian Ice writes:

> 	Ahhhh, we're talking about those things that explode out of the 
> 	dash.  I figured that the air bags being discussed (with all their 
> 	destructive force) was when the mother-in-law was riding in the
> 	passenger seat.  Now, that is dangerous too...

Cultures around the world seem to have a common "mother in-law" problem.
Is there a solution?  Why yes, been around for 10's of thousands of years!

In many (if not all?) Australian Aboriginal tribes in Arnhemland NT, 
(people regarded by "modern experts" as "primitive",   yeh right....) 
an individual has a group of relatives commonly described as "poison
cousins".  These are people you may not speak directly to, if seated near
must be back to back, and a whole heap of other complex social mechanism
aimed at minimising contact apply.

what has this to do with Mothers in-law you ask. (its sure got nothing to do
with Landrovers :-)

Well under traditional law, once you "marry", your wifes mother becomes a
"poison cousin" type.   She cant speak to you ...........
I had my Aboriginal "sister" explain this to the Mother in-law at my wedding,
got a thick ear for my effort to uphold traditional values.  Hmmph some people.
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Oil filled hubs (still)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 12:20:11 +1030 (CST)

Mike L tells us:
> The SerIII has the hub drilled for this.
Yeah but which series III's, I robbed my hubs from an early (pre
heater/demister sIII.)  None of the other series IIa's or III's I've seen
have had this feature.  I spent a fair bit of time running around wrecking
yards and rubbish dumps around Darwin NT with a 5/16 W spanner and a length
of coat hanger wire, only ever found the one set.

> The later IIa's might have this, but I'm not sure.
Dont know either.  My '67 certainly didnt.  

I'd *really* like to know the origin of these hubs...

> The Haynes manual says the early hubs were oil filled, the later ones grease
> packed. It doesn't state what models/years.. Hub capacity is something like
> .33 Imp pints...
Ok so thats about 190 ml.
My guess is that the haynes manual is refering to oil filled hubs as defined
by the oil filling hole in the drive flange.  I dunno when these stopped but
they certainly qualify as "early"

> Cheers

-- 

  Daryl

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 19:49:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Hub Rebuild, con't...

Had an inner grease seal which I couldn't extract with my usual crowbar/seal
extractor method. Drove the corner of a 3/8" cold chisel into the flat of the
seal towards the center of the seal. Did that in two places to peel the seal
away from the hub, and it finally popped out. Just be careful not to drive
down onto the bearing, but rather across the hub.

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 19:56:20 -0500
Subject: Re: 109" Frame Plans?

Another concern with aluminum for the frame is the prevention of galvanic
corrosion between the frame and steel components (i.e. creating a battery
with the disimilar metals). To prevent galvanic corrosion you must
electrically isolate the steel and aluminum with paint or a gasket.
Also aluminum is available in a number of alloys and tempers, and the
varieties can be all over in terms of strength and corrosion resistance.
Finally to maintain frame stiffness, use 3 times the wall thickness of the
steel frame if you don't increase section size. This is due to the modulus of
elasticity being 1/3 that of steel. So your light aluminum frame weighs the
same as a steel frame, since the densities also differ by a factor of 3. 

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 20:04:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Oli filled hub!

Daryl comments...

> At last another vehicle with flange bolt, hub oil filling ability.  Now if
> only we can work out which models!

The SerIII has the hub drilled for this. If you notice, it's the flange bolt
that is centered between two of the lug bolts. The later IIa's might have
this, but I'm not sure. First chance I get, I'm going to check my '71 IIa
parts truck and see how the hubs are. I would like to set up the '65 IIa
like that, but I don't want to use SerIII hubs..

The Haynes manual says the early hubs were oil filled, the later ones grease
packed. It doesn't state what models/years.. Hub capacity is something like
.33 Imp pints...

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 725-1859                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078      -USA-   1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney")      
              7          1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern")
           #:-}>         1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts)

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 20:04:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: What is this Window Channel Stuff

Chris Stevens asks...
 
- I removed the right hand window channels form my SRIIa 88" this afternoon
- to survey the damage. Rust wasn't that bad, but all the furry stuff in the
- side and lower channels was shot. What is this stuff? Can I recover the
- channels after I sand out all the rust? Anyone have any experience with
- this?

What you have there is your basic Land Rover flora.. an ecosystem that
thrives in the crud that collects in the window channels. The only way to
replace it is to wait 5 or 10 years (depends on the climate) for it to grow
back.

OK, Ok... It's a type of flocking that comes bonded to the channels when
they are new. If the furry stuff is gone, most people replace the channels.
If you don't, the windows will probably rattle. But, since everything else
rattles, how do you know the differance??

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 725-1859                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078      -USA-   1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney")      
              7          1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern")
           #:-}>         1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts)

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re:Oil filled hubs.
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 11:15:17 +1030 (CST)

Jeremy writes:
> It seems like filling the hub with 90wt would be trickier than packing with 
> grease (the grease stays roughly where it's put).

Sorry Jeremy you've missed the point.  On the type of hub I'm talking about
you assemble the whole thing, squeeze the oil in through the flange bolt hole
and re fit the flange bolt.  To change the oil you undo the flange bolt (only
one) roll it to the bottom and watch all of the black grungy oil drain out.
spin the wheel until that bolt is back near the top and refill. (actually i
go for aboy 1/3 full)

Its easier than packing grease, honest, just like changing the engine oil.

> The more 90wt you've got in your hubs the more likely you are to have some
leak into the brake drum...  

this was a concern to me. But I've run these hubs for ~9 years (umm say 200K -
230K km something like that), not had any leakage problems *Yet*.  the
bearings need adjusting at the moment but I cant remember the last time I
looked at them.........  
To steal a line from Stefan, of course YOLMV....(your oil leaks may vary)

 cheers,
> P.S.  Don't use a cold chisel on the hub nuts :)

Aww but dad....:-)
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 20:04:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: I need a step up...

Alan Richer steps up...
 
> What does the entry step on a Series vehicle atach to? I need to attach
> side  steps to my 109, as the leather uphostery is simply too high for
> comfortable step-up entry.
-

leather uphostery???

The side steps attach at three points. Two are on the sill rail and the
third is on the bulkhead outrigger. I believe you will need to weld a tab on
the outrigger - at least there were tabs on my IIa for the steps. You will
also probably need to drill out the holes on the sill rail. (The sill rail
supports the floor and the seat box and is also where the bottom door seal
is attached.)
 
> personally can't see the point of hinge mechanisms out in the mud and was 
> considering using a simple yoke step or some such. I  figure as ong as I
> stay above the height of the diff. bottom, i'm not losing any clearance.
-

Have you ever high-centered your sill panels while off-roading?? That would
be my concern on having something much lower than the sills. Could be a real
problem with a very rocky trail...
 
> P.S.: She Who Must Be Obeyed still will NOT set foot in the 109. Oh,
> well....8*(
-

What a lucky guy!! Well... I suppose you'll have to buy her a Discovery, eh?

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 725-1859                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078      -USA-   1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney")      
              7          1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern")
           #:-}>         1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts)

 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 18:27:20 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: axle housings

Re: Mark Talbot's request for 88/109 axles.
The axle housing on a 88 are different to those on a 109. 88 part # is
622283, 109 part # is 622288 or FRC2139. The most obvious difference is the
tube wall thickness, and the welded on extra supports, like the ones found
on rear axles from 88s. Most front end parts will cross, except, as noted
in an earlier email, the brake backing plates, etc. The 6 and 4 cyl 109's
also have different front castings. The 6 parts # is 622288, 4 cyl front
casting is FRC2139.
The swap to 109 axle housings to an 88 is ok, but would suggest against 88
to 109, without adding some support, especially if it is a 6 cyl.

Alan Adolphsen, East Coast Rover Company

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 16:56:45 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Squeak in steering column... of my 109!

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Squeak in steering column... of my 109!
With all the talk of squeaky Discovery steering columns when cold, my 109 is
having empathy for the squeaky Disco's. This morning my 109's steering
column squeaked whilst (might as well get the nick of the language, eh?)
turning.

Cheers.

Dave (squeaks) Brown

P.S. Update on the Range Rover cam will be coming the first part of next
week.

#=======#          ________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___     /__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}   \_/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------

From: Ross Leidy <ross@secant.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 17:31:08 EST
Subject: Question of std equip on 95 NAS D90

All,

Just so I don't feel cheated, did any of the 95 NAS D90's come with the  
tonneau cover as standard equipment?  I thought it would be best to  
check with everyone on the list in case it was simply overlooked by the  
dealer.  If it's no longer standard equipment, anyone know how many $$  
it is?

Completely unrelated:  I thouroughly enjoyed the post by Mike Rooth on  
the retrofit of airbags.  While reading it at the office, I tried to  
contain myself, but I busted-out laughing about half-way through.

-Ross

_______________________________________________
Ross Leidy             Senior Software Engineer
ross@secant.com        Secant Technologies
95 D-90 (red) #3032

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 13:31:01 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Range Rover...

On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Jon Moody (BME) wrote:

> Hi all thanks for the replies re '88 range rover.  I actaully ended up
> seeing a '90 w/ 80K for $15.5K. Questions.

> 1. Any estimates as to what annual maintance cossts would be?
Basic maintenance much the same as other imported luxury cars. Above that 
depends on what goes wrong!

 > 2. Gas milage on average for RR`s.
I average about 13 mpg with mixed driving

> 3. Reliabilty?
Major systems should be reliable but expect a few minor bugs

> 4. I'm finishing up as a grad student, am I crazy to be considering this?
We are all crazy -- that's a prerequisite to owning a Rover.

> 5. Any other major weak spots besides power steering pump, and rust in the
> footwells?
Nothing major that I know of.

> 6. How parts availibilty and costs?
Availability is excellent but costs are very high.

Good luck!!

Cheers

John Brabyn
89 RR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 12:30:17 -0800
From: Doug.Forehand@Eng.Sun.COM (Douglas W. Forehand)
Subject: Discovery Winch bulletin

Well I picked up our new 96 Discovery last night.

Avalon Blue SE7 with LR winch kit.

All appears to work fine, though it being dark
we did'nt get wring it out real thoroughly.

One thing the dealer imediately pointed out
was that with the winch installed the front end
is an inch or so lower than it should be. 

They noticed this while doing the installation and
went digging through the bulletins for for some
possible explination. heres what they found:

===========================================================================
PARTS BULLETIN

 Bulletin: VG95-046
 Section: Vehicle Gear
 Date: Nov 17, 1995
 Model: Discovery

Applicable to:  USA/Cda

Subject: Heavy duty road springs for discoverys with winch installation

Effective immediately, heavy duty springs are now available as vehicle
gear items for Discovery.

PART                            SUGGEGSTED     SUGGESTED
NUMBER     DISCRIPTION          Retail (US)   RETAIL (Cda)
------     -----------          -----------   ------------

NTC8476     LHS Spring           $103.97       $164.32
NTC8477     RHS Spring           $101.54       $160.47

Suggested installation time for the springs is 1.35 hr.

Installation of these springs will correct the ride height of a Discovery 
with a SRS approved winch installed.

These springs should be ordered in conjunction with the winch (LRNADISWIN).

Please add these part numbers to your price book, PC, or any other location.

===========================================================================

The dealer aggreed to get me the above mentioned springs at no charge 
along with some other stuff to compensate me for the comedy of errors
we went through in acquiring the vehicle.

Enjoy
-Doug

96 Discovery (Simba)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 19:42:56 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: What has it come too !!!!

Just what is going on here, someone complaining about the wind noise in a 95 
Range Rover is loud he can't hear the other person on the cellular phone. Go 
try it in a Series Land Rover. 

Stop wasting e-mail space !!!!!  

------------------------------

From: Jeff_Scott@tvo.org (Jeff Scott)
Subject: brakes
Date: 21 Nov 1995 18:49:43 GMT

I recently overhauled the brakes on my 62 IIa and was disappointed to the
other day to find the pedal going to the floor, but even more surprised a day
or so later to find I had brakes again.  This situation has repeated a couple
of times.  Any ideas?  It might help to zero in where the air is getting in.
Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Nov 95 14:48:11 EST
From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com>
Subject: Steering Stabilizer

 >>  I am considering purchasing a steering stabilizer.  Has anyone installed
one on a Series II and if so, what type did you use and where did you buy it? 
I don't think that Rovers North carries them.  I believe I saw a "Rancho" type
on a Series Rover in a magazine.  I would appreciate any recommendations. 
Thanks!!! <<

 Bryan,
    I recently purchased the stock steering stabilizer for my SerIII. I
purchased mine from Rover's North. There are three parts that you need to
have. The first is the frame bracket (NRC4657 $16) this bolts to the frame,
but many vehicles already have one so it might not be necessary. You also will
need a drag link with the integral bracket for the damper. (NRC 4609 $50) It
might be possible to find a clamp on bracket to attach to your exist drag
link, but I needed a new drag link so I went with the stock part. Then there
is the Damper itself (STC786 $60). Installation is easy, depending on the
state of your tie rod ends. Rusted Tie Rod ends are difficult to remove
without damaging them, so you might end up replacing these also. Unless of
course you go with a bolt on bracket.
    If your tie rod ends are worn, the damper will not be as effective. It was
definitely an improvement, but after a replaced all the tie rod ends the
damper became even more effective.

 P.S. These prices are about a year old, so I imagine they have gone up a bit.

     -------------------
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     |\/|           |\/|

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 21-Nov-1995

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 11:39:54 -0700 (MST)
From: beesley@primenet.com (Brad Beesley)
Subject: Re: California on the LRO List

Mark

----SNIP------
>Following a business trip to Las Vegas I am contemplating a trip to Los
>Angeles, CA. A few have metioned to me that LA is somewhat dangerous with
>heavy congestion on the freeways and lacks the greater sights of other
>California cities.
----SNIP------

Welcome to California

I live about 10 minutes from LAX (Los Angeles International Airport) and
can give you many tips and details about the LA area. As far as the danger
aspect, LA is kind of like any other big city... certain places are better
than others, and rush hour is all day long. Actually it is not that bad.
Where are you from?

E-mail me directly if you want. (save the LRO bandwidth).

Brad Beesley

___________________________________________________________________
                      beesley@primenet.com

                   Seven Thorns of the Crown
               http://www.primenet.com/~beesley/
___________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 12:35:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca>
Subject: RR: Lubricating the Speedometer Cable

What kind of grease do people recommend?  I know that white grease picks up
moisture.  It used to be used on helicopters, but no longer!

...chris
88RR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 10:16:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.) <grea@net.gov.bc.ca>
Subject: Subject: What is this Window Channel Stuff

 Chris Stevens wrote:

>I removed the right hand window channels form my SRIIa 88" this afternoon
>to survey the damage. Rust wasn't that bad, but all the furry stuff in the
>side and lower channels was shot. What is this stuff?

I my experiance, the green furry stuff in the window channels will last forever
if you keep it well watered and a bi-weekly dusting of road dirt.
I read somewhere that this was the LR "Herb Garden" option. (not available	
on the Disco or RR).

g.

------------------------------

From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com
Subject:  RE: Discovery quality
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 9:35:12 PST

We've been hearing quite a bit from Discovery owners about quality
quirks. What about the Defender 90 owners? Seems like they're not
experiencing many problems. A few of the owners I talked to said they've
enjoyed many trouble-free miles. Supposedly the two vehicles share the same
drive train, and are made under the same roof, so I'm wondering what
causes the discrepancy. Could it be due to the relative simplicity of the 
D90, or just the fact that there are fewer D90's around, so we don't
hear as much about them?

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Peng                                     (408)765-7863
Intel Corporation
Design Technology, Physical CAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 21 Nov 95 13:05:36 EST
Subject: Re. Oil Filled Hub

Jeremy Bartlett Expounds a theory:

>If its apart, I'd say you should be replacing the seal at the end of 
>the axle housing, then repacking and seating the bearings.  It seems 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>got in your hubs the more likely you are to have some leak into the 
>brake drum...

Filling the hub is extremely simple, if you're equipped with that type of hub. 
All you need do is pop the plug with the plug facing up and add it. To empty, 
turn the wheel over...it drains out.

I do agree that grease will not tend to migrate as the oil does, but then 
again, how often do people repack?

     aj"Oil-filled and NOT leaking...much"r

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 10:10:19 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Weird Wiring Combos 2.25l p wiring

OK so weird wiring and LUCAS systems is repetitive but...

As the days get shorter and darker it seemed appropriate to move my 
restoration project into the electrics :)  Last night I began work on 
the main wiring harness.  The original cloth braid wrap is now mostly 
rotted and partly falling off under its own weight and that of the 
grease and dirt accumulated over 30 years. In the process of removing 
the original cloth braid from the wiring harness it became apparent 
that some of the wires from the factory are plastic coated with color 
codes and some are cloth wrapped with color codes (black underneath). 
Has anyone else come across this (the vehicle is a '65 109)?  Are the 
later vehicles all plastic and was LR only using up the last of its 
cloth wrap on these mid 60s models?

Furthermore, close inspection of the parts diagrams and electrical 
circuits from the manuals and Haynes book reveal that the harness 
doesn't exactly match any of the examples provided.  The differences do 
not appear to be entirely explained by the presence of options such as 
a Kodiak heater.  I've not begun the careful diagnosis yet (having 
discovered only one shorted wire so far within the rotted cloth wrap) 
but this seems a little disconcerting.  Again, has anyone else noticed 
such discrepencies?

This entry into the realm of Mr. Lucas reminds me somewhat of those 
movie scenes where characters are trying to diffuse bombs by guessing 
at different colored wires. 

Cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: 22 Nov 95 06:11:32 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Center diff woes become ...

> Has anyone had any experience with Disco or RR of the hand brake
> sticking on and going on by itself at very slow speeds? I have been

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that they should weed out a couple of
fruitcakes at certain assembly lines in Solihull who are obviously messing
up things...

I must explain that a friend of mine does 'grey imports' of Defenders to
Germany via Holland (remember, Defenders aren't officially sold in Germany).
Well, on 3 out of 5 Defenders we get, the transmission brake is badly/wrongly
assembled or maladjusted and shudders or 'rips' at lower speeds, or even
locks when comming to a standstill (like at red lights!). In one handbrake
we dissassembled we found assorted debris, metal filings, a *cigarette butt* ?!
and the linings were fouled with 90W. These are *brand new* cars, mind you,
with 0.5 miles on the od.  We don't deal in Discos or Rangies , but I
wouldn't be surprised if the problem surfaces there as well.  If I were a
paranoid sort of person I'd even suspect sabotage.  Maybe a staunch old
Rover shop stewart who wants to take personal revenge for the company having
been taken over by the huns...  Attila in a Land Rover, just imagine!

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: 22 Nov 95 06:12:55 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: What is this Window Channel Stuff

> to survey the damage. Rust wasn't that bad, but all the furry stuff in the
> side and lower channels was shot. What is this stuff? Can I recover the
> channels after I sand out all the rust? Anyone have any experience with

Dry moss, that's what it is :-) !

You'd have a lot of rattle and draught if you 'restore' them the way you
propose. They're actually very cheap to replace, the real problem is where
to find them.

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Center diff woes become ...
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 95 11:43:40 GMT

Hey! Attila in a Land Rover! Didnt know you *knew* my
mother in law Stefan.

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 13:37:49 +0001
From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili)
Subject: Re: Discovery Winch bulletin

Doug, congratulations with your Discovery. I own a Avalon coloured Discovery. 
At first I thought it was blue too. But the longer I own the car the greener
it becomes :-) Just wait and see....

LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR
                ____
      |   _____/|__||   Roy Wassili,<wassili@amc.uva.nl>
      |  /(-8|  \   |   Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66
  ____|_/[]__|__\___|#  scarved for live
 |] __=|     |  __  |#
[|_/  \|_____|_/  \_|]
  ( o )        ( o )

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 07:49:18 -0500
From: Ron Taylor <rtaylor@coil.com>
Subject: Re:Virus alert !!!

At 3:18 AM 11/22/95, Kurt Reinhardt wrote:

 >         Hi folks,
 > and now something completely different.....

As many (but not all) of you know, this is a hoax.  Reference:

<ftp://mirrors.aol.com//pub/info-mac/vir/good-times-virus-hoax-faq.hqx>

cheers...

   Ron Taylor

------------------------------

From: "Seymour, Gareth" <GSeymour@mp.sihe.ac.uk>
Subject: subscribe
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 95 12:53:00 PST

subscribe

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Frames
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 95 08:59:00 EST

David Lowe writes:
>Funding constraints prevent considering buying a new galvanized frame and =
>supsension kit from ABP at $3,995.  By the time I pay shipping to Alaska =
>it would cost over $5,000.

Since you have to pay shipping cost wherever it comes from why not buy from 
the UK? Frame plus springs and steering relay comes to about 900 quid 
assuming shipping to be about $1000 your cost would be $3000 or less than 
ABPs list price.

Trevor Easton 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 08:19:26 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Hub Rebuild, con't...

>  >> Hit a road block last night on my hub project ('66 IIa 88). I can't
 extract the inner oil seal from the hub, preventing me from removing the
 bearing. Any tricks? I thought of pounding out the whole race/bearing/seal
 assembly from the inside, but I don't have a brass drift and really didn't
 want to remove the races if I didn't have to. 

Place a few rags on the floor for padding, lay your brake drum on the 
rags on it's rim. Place the hub in the brake drum center hole with 
the studs uppermost. Take a wodden dowel and place it against the 
inner bearing and whack it.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 08:50:59 -0600
Subject: One-Man Brake Bleeder

Hi all,

I ran accross a tool that anyone contimplating a brake job might be 
interested in. A motorcycle guy I was talking to turned me on to it. Its 
called a One-Man Brake Bleeder, manufactured by CTA Manufacturing Corp. in 
Carlstadt, NJ, item # 1238. The tool consists of a hose and a one way check 
valve that fits over the bleeder. This allows one person to pump the air out,
without reintroducing air or contiminated fluid back into the system.

It was written ip in the June '95 Motorcycle Consumer News by Ray Englehardt. 
The author has used it on a variety of vehicles - a cycle, a SAAB, and a Ford 
pickup, and says it lives up to all its claims and he was able to 
successfully get all the air out of the system.

Cost - $5.49.

I gotta try this for six bucks. Anyone else use one of these? I'll report on 
my results.

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 95 15:13:35 UT
From: "Stephen Miller" <BOMILCAR@msn.com>
Subject: Springs on 88 RR

I have a 72 series III I use for off road and a 1988 RR I use for city and 
high way.  I bought the 72 new and it is still number one on the list, but in 
Texas AC becomes a must in the summer months, thus the RR.  I have finally 
saved enough $$$ to try and do something about the "slop" as the RR tries to 
corner.  New shocks helped some but I think it is time think about springs.  
Any one have any experience using higher grade springs on an 88 RR?  What did 
you use?  How many $$$?  Did it make a difference?  How long did it take?  
Any help would be very much appreciated.

Steve
Houston TX USA
72 Series III SW
88 RR

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 09:48:45 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: One-Man Brake Bleeder

> From:          Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
> To:            Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.com
> X-To:          lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net (LRO List)
> Date:          Wed, 22 Nov 1995 08:50:59 -0600
ABP used to sell (maybe they still do) a spring loaded bleed screw 
that owuld let one person bleed their brakes. Theory was that it 
would close on the up stroke to prevent air infiltration.
I bought one but never put it to the test.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Inertia Reel Belts
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 95 10:50:00 EST

I have inertia reel belts in Miss Golightly. They are from a Volkwagen 
Rabbit and the reels are fitted to the back of the bulkhead. There are 
reinforcing brackets for the hardtop to provide a mounting above the 
shoulder, These were standard on SIII I think and can be retrofitted. The 
problem with leading the belt directly to the reel when running topless is 
just that, if one actually has an accident and the belt works in anger, you 
will probably suffer a broken collar bone due to the downward pull. 
Otherwise it works OK and doesn't pull you down to one side. I have to admit 
that my belts go straight to the reel as I find it is more comfortable for 
normal driving.

Trevor Easton

BTW My company server was constipated since last Wednesday and I haven't 
been able to communicate with the outside world until this morning. If you 
tried to get in touch with me, sorry for the delay and if your mail was 
bounced please try again now.

------------------------------

From: Treit Le <Treit_Le@apprise.com>
Date: 22 Nov 95  9:02:05 
Subject: Dealer Part Prices in England

I there a way to get a list of dealer prices on genuine parts? A friend is 
going back to England for Christmas and is willing to bring back some small 
items. I've seen prices for rear lamp guards ('95 Classic) in LRW at 
aftermarket shops, but am guessing that the parts are not genuine and that the 
prices must be much lower than the dealer's. Am I correct in assuming that it 
is pretty easy to find a Land Rover dealer in England (like finding a Ford 
dealer in the US)?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 08:23:52 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Question of std equip on 95 NAS D90

Ross Leidy wrote:
> Just so I don't feel cheated, did any of the 95 NAS D90's come with the  
> tonneau cover as standard equipment?  ..<snip>..If it's no longer standard 
> equipment,anyone know how many $$ it is?

Dear Ross:

The '94 NAS D90 came with a tonneau cover standard, but no top or door 
tops (sliding windows). I believe that the '95 NAS D90 comes standard 
with the sloping soft top and door tops, but no tonneau cover. On the 
basis of cost, the '95 standard is a much better deal.

The '94 tops and tonneau cover attach to the body by snaps, whereas the 
'95s switched to "bed rails." I do not believe that tonneau covers are 
made in the '95 bed rail style. I think that the "list price" of the '94 
tonneau cover is about $400.

A phone call to your LR dealer or another Land Rover supplier would 
answer your question more accurately....

Best wishes,
David

'94 NAS D90
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 09:04:41 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Discovery quality vs. NAS D90

Roger Peng wrote:
> We've been hearing quite a bit from Discovery owners about quality
> quirks. What about the Defender 90 owners? Seems like they're not
> experiencing many problems...<snip>... so I'm wondering what
> causes the discrepancy. 

Dear Roger,

I believe that a lot of the difference has to do with the owners' 
expectations. My '94 NAS D90 has all sorts groans and squeeks and rattles 
that I could post to this list about, but *they are not important.* Most 
of the time they will be drowned out by the wind noise anyway.  If not, I 
can *increase* the flapping of the soft top by opening one of the side 
windows, just so, and the wind noise goes way up: squeeks and rattles 
all gone!  ;-)

Soon after I got the D90, it stalled twice in rush hour traffic. The 
mechanic at Seattle Land Rover found some grease inside a connector 
associated with the computer module: very annoying problem, potentially 
tough to figure out, solved by a dedicated mechanic: actual fix was 
trivial!   

With the new RRs, Discoverys and D90s much more immersed in electronic and 
computer controls of this and that, our machines are more susceptible
to the whims of the Great God Lucas. And since Discoverys have more 
electronic stuff than NAS D90s (?electric seats, windows, doorlocks...) 
they may heed Lucas' call more often. 

Hopefully though, the intrinsic toughness that is built into Land Rovers 
will have all of us owners of new beasts chatting about how to re-build 
this or that ....... in 20 years.

Best wishes, 
David

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:09:04 +0000
From: C.Morgan@soc.staffs.ac.uk (Craig Morgan)
Subject: Re: Virus Alert ("Good Times") is a hoax ...

>There is a computer virus that is being sent across the Internet. If
>you receive an e-mail message with the subject line "Good Times", DO
>NOT read the message, DELETE it immediately. Please read the messages below.

Please, please, please ...

        This is an old *hoax* which reappears like the proverbial bad apple,
there is no such virus and you can not be infected by just reading a mail
message. Before this takes hold again amongst the general Internet populus
please help to stamp it out.

        Please don't let these lists (Land Rover related) suffer the fate
of others I have seen which died, swamped by email and discussion regarding
this hoax. Let's just let it lie, suffice to say that if people want to
verify the non-existance of this virus, a search on any of the WWW search
mechanisms will probably turn up many notes like this one!

        Chinese whispers travel fast on the Internet ... lets kill this one
before it starts!

--
Craig

                            ,,,   Wot, NO mountains!
 ======================oOO=(o o)=OOo===================================
  Craig Morgan              (_)      Lecturer, CS Group
  School of Computing                Email: C.Morgan@soc.staffs.ac.uk
  Staffordshire University           Phone: +44 (0)1785 353466
  Beaconside                         Fax:   +44 (0)1785 353497
  Stafford, UK  ST18 0DG             Pager: +44 (0)839 453754

  "It's the downhill thrills, that make the uphill slog worthwhile..."
 ======================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 09:33:00 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: I need a step up...

In message <199511220931.EAA00541@butler.uk.stratus.com>  writes:
 
> Alan Richer steps up...
;  
> What does the entry step on a Series vehicle atach to? I need to attach
; side  steps to my 109, as the leather uphostery is simply too high for
> comfortable step-up entry.
;
Leather?  You have dolled up the interior with leather upholstry and your wife 
refuses to go inside?
;
Side steps limit the kind of places you can travel through. They are fine if you
drive on pavement, dirt roads, or open gentle terrain or beaches.  

Where you can get into trouble is when you are negotiating narrow 
trails/untrails with large objects waiting to rub against your sills.

I think their biggest clearence problem is from the side and not the bottom.  If
you don't normally drive real close to objects sill height or higher, side steps
are probably fine.

I personally find that I'm always getting my 109's sills tickled by rocks, logs 
and brush.  I ended up putting aluminum diamond plate over my sills so they 
wouldn't look so bad and to protect them (and the lower side edge of my 
underseat fuel tanks).  I was looking at them the other day and noticed that the
diamond plate was getting a little wavy too.  Maybe I'm just a little sloppy in 
my driving, maybe the 109 just doesn't quite make some of the curves, but if I 
had side steps, they would be littering the mountains long before now and their 
mounting area and sills would be torn up when they were ripped out.

If your driving doesn't include close encounters of the object kind, or if you 
are more careful than I seem to be, you should do fine with side steps.  

Vertical clearence should not be a problem.  If you want vertical clearence 
problems get one of the new style Range Rovers with the side steps mounted.  You
might run aground on a parking lot speed bump.

TeriAnn
I will not be near my e-mail from Wed afternoon 'till Dec 11.
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 09:38:29 +0000
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Steering Stabilizer

Bryan writes:
>I am considering purchasing a steering stabilizer.  Has anyone installed
>one on a Series II and if so, what type did you use and where did you buy it? 
>I don't think that Rovers North carries them.  I believe I saw a "Rancho" type
>on a Series Rover in a magazine.  I would appreciate any recommendations. 

 As taken from the Series Aftermarket Parts List by Mike Hoskins,
 published at the URL in my signature, the shock part number are: 

Shock Absorber 88" Front       RTC-4230   Gabriel G53494, Rancho* RS5163
Shock Absorber 88" Rear        RTC-4232   Gabriel G53299, Rancho RS5169
HD Shock Absorber 88" Front    RTC-4234   Gabriel G63494
HD Shock Absorber 88" Rear     RTC-4235   Gabriel G63299
Shock Absorber 109" Front      RTC-4483   Rancho RS5119(was RS5164)
Shock Absorber 109" Rear       RTC-4442   Rancho RS5117
HD Shock Absorber 109" Front   RTC-4484   Rancho RS5164
HD Shock Absorber 109" Rear    RTC-4236   Rancho RS5157
Steering Stabilizer            STC-786    Rancho RS5402

*Rancho Customer Service 310-630-0700

 I ordered a replacement Rancho stabilizer for the old bracket kit on my
 Series III --worked great, cleared up an oscillating shimmy at 50mph+  :)
 Bruce at DAP sells them (86 Clinton, Springfield, VT 05156 802-885-6660;
 Fax 802-885-6662), with shipping the price is what you would pay locally
 with tax, but I prefer to support Land Rover vendors who will get me the
 correct part.

                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^+++++   '65 IIA 2.235m/88"
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 09:43:08 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Virus alert !!!

In message <199511220925.EAA00391@butler.uk.stratus.com> Kurt Reinhardt writes:
;
>         Hi folks,
> and now something completely different.....
> I`ve got this forwarded message today and even it doesn=B4t concern anything
> related to Land Rover it seems to be important for us as internet user.
;
Kurt,
;
The warning message IS THE VIRUS and you have just spread it to hundreds of 
people.

The message is a hoax that had been going around and around for well over a year
now.  Your computer can not get infected by a document.  You need to run code 
for the code to do something.  The virus needs to be in an application of some 
kind and you need to run that application.  You can not get it by opening and 
reading a document unless the application that opens it has the virus.

My guess is that the person who originated the warning had an idea for a new 
kind of virus.  One that didn't do anything to your computer.  It is the 
warning.  All it does is travel around the world countless times visiting 
people's mail in boxes.  It doesn't do anything except take up space & time.  
The vector for this new internet virus are well meaning people who do not 
understand how a normal computer virus infects a computer.

i think I've gotten this one 10 or 11 times in the last year...sigh

TeriAnn
I will not be near my e-mail from Wed afternoon 'till Dec 11.
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

From: MFIELD@MOHAWK.WIC.EPA.GOV
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 13:41:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Subscription

subscribe digest

------------------------------

From: MFIELD@MOHAWK.WIC.EPA.GOV
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 13:54:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Land Rover for sale

To all who are interested:

I still have my land rover for sale -- its a great deal just waiting
for the right person.  I need to sell asap.

1967 series IIA 109 regular LHD.  NO rust.  Newly rebuilt engine.
Recently refurbished series III transmission.  New NATO brush paint.
Hard and soft tops.  New high-back bucket seats and console in front.
Six new rear jump seats (two installed).  New accoustic sound proofing.
New safety belts.  New brakes. New tires.  New carpeting (not installed).
New ring-and-pinion gears ready to be installed for 24% on-road performance.
New roof rack and ladder for hardtop.  Engine is a four-cylinder gas
model with specially hardened cylinder head for unleaded fuel.  Dual
master cylinder.

It was appraised at $13,000 and may be worth more according to people
I have talked with and that it should not be sold for less than $12,000.
Those that have seen it and know rovers generally want to buy it but
have been having difficulty obtaining financing.  Please note, I am
negotiable on the price but do need to sell because of employment and
family concerns.

Malcolm S. Field -- Maryland
(202) 260-8921 work
(301) 349-5712 home
mfield@mohawk.wic.epa.gov e-mail

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 22 Nov 95 11:50:00 EST
Subject: Re: What has it come too !!!!

Mark Talbot blithers:

>Just what is going on here, someone complaining about the wind noise in a 95 
>Range Rover is loud he can't hear the other person on the cellular phone. Go 
>try it in a Series Land Rover. 

>Stop wasting e-mail space !!!!!  

Speak for yerself, mate. My Motorola DPC-550 works quite nicely in my IIa 109, 
even at highway speeds. Dialing the G$^%$E&% thing is another story....

      Alan

 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:03:34 GMT -0600
Subject: US Holiday

To all you US subscribers out there, have a nice holiday and try not 
to spend too much of your time off from your real jobs working on those infernal
 
machines.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 18:40:42
From: DREAD@gnn.com ()
Subject: LRO Digest for 11/22

Was there a digest for 11/22? I didn't get one and I was 
wondering if perhaps my server was down.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Nov 95 01:30:56 +0100
From: sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt)
Subject: sorry !

Hi out there, I never got such a lot of response to a mail, since my last
virus alert. Sorry, as a net newbie I got it from a friend of mine in a
serious manner, and I couldn`t know taht it is a joke. So it seems to me a
question of honour to send it to the list. Sorry, if I have annoyed you with
this. Mea culpa...:-(
Kurt.... .. more interested in Land Rover than in computer technology :-)

PS.: What a fortune that lucas doesn`t manufacture computers....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 20:29:08 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Camel Trophy Trials

Ten candidates have been selected for the US Camel Trophy trials, to be held 
at the Hollister Hills ORV area in California December 9-10.  Over two days, 
the candidates will be asked to run a six-minute mile, build log bridges, 
repair a purposely-impaired Land Rover, prepare their own meals and 
generally survive a non-stop marathon of stress designed to push each to 
their limits.

Four finalists will advance to the international selection trials, where two 
will be chosen to compete in the 17th adventure in Borneo.

Needless to say, the candidates are a fit bunch.  One was a Navy UDT, two 
are marathon runners and all have off-road vehicle skills, either in 
motorcycle endurance races or four wheeling.  The candidates are:

Thomas Baynard,27, Chester Springs, PA
Jeffrey Brandner, 31, Chester, NJ
Kenneth Cameron, 26, Vail, CO
Stuart Dahlin, 35, Watertown, SD
Kevin Hines, 35, East Wareham, MA
Fred Hoess, 29, Stanhope, NJ
Jonah Houston, 29, Monterey, CA
James Lyaons, 30, Davis, CA
Gregory Oberst, 36, Seal Beach, CA
Mark Ritter, 33, Marietta, GA

Mark is a member of the Atlanta area Rover club.

P.S. Is the digest down again?
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 21:24:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Springs on 88 RR

On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, Stephen Miller wrote:

> I have finally 
> saved enough $$$ to try and do something about the "slop" as the RR tries to 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> you use?  How many $$$?  Did it make a difference?  How long did it take?  
> Any help would be very much appreciated.

I would like to hear from others on this, but when I was shopping used 
RRs, I encountered one (a 1989) that had a severe case of the wallows, 
and several people suggested that this was a case of bad bushings.  My 
present 88 RR handles very well (123K miles) and I believer it was 
treated to new shocks (Ranchos) and bushings.  It has, as far as I know, 
the original springs.  Any comments?

Walt Swain

              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 22:58:24 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Discovery models (toys)

Got the RoverLog from Atlantic British.  They have what sure looks like the 
Britains model of the Disco that my sister brought back from England for me. 
 Cost is $24.95, looks to be available in burgandy and Dark Blue.  They also 
have a Police Discovery model for $19.95.  White, with yellow/red stripes and 
lights on top.  

AB is at:

Atlantic British Ltd
Box 110
Rover Ridge Drive
Mechanicville, NY 12118

1-800-533-2210 (Orders)
1-518-664-6641 (Fax)

Enjoy!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 89 lines 3803 [forwarded 180 whitespace 945]
 Output: lines 3135 [content 1805  forwarded 169 (cut  11) whitespace 940]

	
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