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From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Rocky Mountains LR event
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 02:00:04 -0600 (MDT)

The Solihull Society Fally Rally will be held in the Laramie, Wyoming area.

Date:  Sept. 8-9-10

The Old Corral in Centennial will accomodate 2 people to a room Friday 
night with Sat. breakfast for $45.  Or, camp at the first campsite on 
Sand Lake Road.

9 a.m.  Sat is hit-the-road time (at the campground).  Plan to camp Sat 
night on Douglas Creek.

Sunday night is hot-tub time in Saratoga.

That's all  I know.
Call Barrie Bloom in Laramie for details 307-742-3258.  

T. F. Mills
tomills@du.edu                               University of Denver Library
http://www.du.edu/~tomills                          Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: UK Reg plate system
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 9:33:30 BST

Just to further confuse Rumpole.......
M'lud,I submit..
"Tilt" applies to truck cabs,usually.The tilt is the
tent like canvas affair that covers the pickup bed,
and is supported on hoops like a soft top.In fact
it *is* a soft top in a way,except it (obviously)
doesnt cover the cab.
A little more about reg no's,although its difficult
to follow Bill's excellent explanation.
My 1932 MG was CV 6630.Howver,as Bill said,they ran out
of the ABC 1234 format.So then they changed it to
123 ABC format.So it became ABC 123 A.Same thing happened.
So now we've got A 123 ABC.
The last two letters denote the issuing county(or authority)
Thus:My 88" is DCH 185 J.CH is Nottinghamshire and the J
denotes 70/71 model year.(Actually first registered Oct 70).
UT is Leicestershire,HH Carlisle city,AO and RM Cumbria.
And so on.
There,there,your analyst will sort it out....:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Plasti-dip / Plasti Kote
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 10:39:23 BST

Saw an ad on C4 (UK TV) last night which depicted a product
called Plasti Kote.

It was available as a dip, spray and in big (brushing) tins.

Is that the same stuff?

The ad. showed a domestic heating radiator being sprayed.

All the best,

Andy
A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk

------------------------------

From: "Steve Methley" <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:17:06 +0100
Subject: Re: UK Reg plate system

Mike says:

>"Tilt" applies to truck cabs,usually.The tilt is the
>tent like canvas affair that covers the pickup bed,
>and is supported on hoops like a soft top.In fact
>it *is* a soft top in a way,except it (obviously)
>doesnt cover the cab.

Oh, I thought that was "3/4 tilt" and "full tilt" was the whole soft
top as I had on my lightweight.

Best Regards,
Steve.  '79 2dr RR.

------------------------------

From: sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 11:05:43 BST
Subject: Tilt

Hi, for some obscure reason soft-tops are called tilts.  A full tilt is a
complete convertible, a 3/4 tilt is the bit to cover the pick-up bed with
a truck cab fitted.

There is some sense in it however as the cloth of the roof seems to be called
canvas (probably because it is canvas) or hood and the frame is called hood
sticks (probably because it is a set of sticks for the hood!).

It brings a whole new meaning to driving at full tilt!

I would also like to take the opportunity to add my bit to the number plate
confusion.  The Q prefix is used to warn a buyer that something odd may have
happened to the car he is about to buy, such as an import or it is a kit car.
Basically anything which has happened which would make the age of the vehicle
unproveable, as has been stated by a couple of others.  The main problem with
Q plates is that they are very hard to get rid of.  I have heard of a few
instances of Q plates being replaced with age related ones on ex-military
vehicles after some digging to prove date of manufacture, but generally once
a vehicle has a Q plate it is there forever.  You can't even change it for
a non-age related plate (without the letter suffix/prefix).  After all there
would be little point in marking a vehicle to say it has an unproveable age
if it could be changed easily.

It is a bit redundant however as my log book (ex-military lightweight) says
something along the lines of: "previously used/registered under a different
number.  Believed date of first use 1973, date of current registration 1983."

So I have a lightweight with a Y plate and therefore claiming to be of
1983 vintage which is actually a 1973 car (probably).  I could theoretically
add a few quid to the price and sell it to a fool claiming it to be 12 years
old rather than 22 but as soon as he saw the log book it would be there for
all to see that it is of unknown age.

There is more than just age information hidden in the number plate.  The format
of a current UK number plate is L NNN LLL (L=letter, N=number) the last two
letters relate to the town of registration so with the appropriate tables you
can tell where your car was registered and I believe the first letter of the
group of three can be used to determine the date of registration (roughly) but
that information is in the log book anyway.  As far as I know the three numbers
(leading zeros are not used) have no meaning apart from being issued
sequentially.

Of course you can request a particular plate on a new car or as said before
swap numbers with another car of the same age or older.

Hope this hasn't added to the confusion, but it is a unnecessarily complicated
system.

Steve Reddock - V6 Lightweight called Bastard

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:43:43 +0000
Subject:       Re: Tilt

On 30 Aug 95, sreddock@vnet.ibm.com wrote:

> There is more than just age information hidden in the number plate.  The
> format of a current UK number plate is L NNN LLL (L=letter, N=number) the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> book anyway.  As far as I know the three numbers (leading zeros are not
> used) have no meaning apart from being issued sequentially.
The 1st 25 numbers are reserved for "personalised" plates:
50 BER
A 1 CAR
R 0 VER (? 1998, with a leading zero)

BTW - EX is Essex, letter S is *not* issued
BTW2 - xS is usually Scotland (CS & ES are perthshire, LCS 210 W is a 
1980's Perthshire plate. LCS 210 W is called LuCaS :)

> Of course you can request a particular plate on a new car or as said
> before swap numbers with another car of the same age or older.
for $$$$.  If you have a brash dealer, they'll try to get your car 
registered in an area to get the correct letters for you.

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

------------------------------

Subject: Range Rover Register  WWW URL 
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 07:41:32 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

Range Rover Register...

	http://www.apricot.co.uk/rel3/directory/rrr/index.html

Well, my rangie survived the 1000 mile trip to Edinburgh and the SLOC and
Pennine LOC RTV's ( a shreaded offside-rear bumper endcap, a 'soft' driver's
door ding, and a slight buckle, nearside rear of the wheel arch and some amount
of driver stupidity resulted in a dinged diff case where a West Yorks. rock 
impeeded my forward progress)

Off again, to the other side of the pond, more later,
 Ciao,
 -Bill

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Tyres and Rims
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 08:12:00 DST

>> Tyres on the 16" rims should always be fitted with tubes. The rim is not
> >designed for a tubeless tyre and doesn't have the bead retainer that 
stops
> >you peeling the tyre from the rim under heavy side loads. With radials be 

>    I just bought 5 brand-new 16" Land Rover Genuine wheels (well, OK,
>  Dunlop makes 'em, but they came with a Land Rover piece of cardboard
>    >stuck in the center!)  I was told they were intended for use with
>   tubeless tires.  Does your statement above apply only to the
>  original (1960's/70's) wheels, or also the brand new ones?

>    Duncan

Look at the rim before you fit tyres. Does it have a slightly raised bump 
just inside where the bead will sit?
If so its OK for tubeless. If its flat except for the hollow where the bead 
goes when fitting then its tubed.
See ASCII diagram below:

*                                                                     *
*               *                                     *              *
**********  *******            ********  *********  Tubeless
                             *           *
                             ********

*                                                                         *
*******************            *******************  Tubed
                              *           *
                              ********

Trevor Easton

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Wed, 30 Aug 1995 07:11:15 GMT -0600
Subject:       jack stability

Will Hadley asks...

>      I have a question from David Bobeck..."Does anyone have any secrets 
>      for keeping there Rover from tipping over it's "High-Lift" jack when 
>      lifting from the front bumper?"
/

Experience. After using it a lot you learn to place the jack so 
that as the car shifts slightly during the lift the jack becomes more 
stable. I've used mine in all kinds of terrain and have only had it 
come off by accident a couple of times. 
Their inherant instability is a benefit more often than not in my 
experience. It's nice to be able to jack your Rover up and shove it 
off to the side to get yourself unstuck.

The Turtle Expedition people welded a smallish square tube to the 
rear cross member (when they still were driving a LR) that the jack 
slipped into. A reasonably good idea, but with the loss of being able 
to do the jack-&-shove shuffle, unless you attached the tube 
with that in mind.

For those inexperienced with the Hi-lift style of jack; be *very*
careful when lowering the vehicle. The jack handle can, on it's 
upward travel, move very fast with great force. Unless, of course, you 
enjoy being hit it the face with a steel pipe.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: D90 Hood Latch
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 08:21:00 DST

Part of the hood latch problem is that the spring which pops the hood up 
when you pull on the latch is designed to lift a hood mounted tyre so when 
closed it puts a large friction load on the latch. I believe there is a 
factory fix which replaces this with a weaker spring. Or put your spare on 
the hood!

Trevor Easton

------------------------------

From: William Terry <wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com>
Subject: Re. Funny Questions...
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:28:29 -0400 (EDT)

I replaced my '66 door handles with the SIII antiburst type. Had the car 
at Rovers North when I bought the handles and they were kind enough to 
cut the holes for the lock. Their template was a bit off and I had to 
modify the holes, but otherwise the latches were a straight replacement. 

______________W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______________
  How do we acquire wisdom along with all these shiny things? (David Brin)

  wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com
  http://glenfiddich.minerva.bah.com:8062/CyberJungle.html
  MINERVA Development Team, Booz, Allen & Hamilton

------------------------------

From: Stuart Williams <STUARTW@msmail.cho.ge.com>
Subject: Jeeps And Other Mistakes
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 08:44:00 EDT

As more (unnecessary) fuel for Jeep's funeral fire, I can report that in 8 
years of owning a 1987 Jeep Wagoneer Ltd (4.0 liter) it never left me by the 
roadside but it did leave me at the service garage an incredible number of 
times.  The stack of service tickets was quite impressive!  Most every major 
accessory was replaced at least once, and in some cases two or three times. 
 Lots of squirrelly and intermittent problems with the A/C, brakes, 
shift-on-the-fly transfer case, etc.  I would never recommend one of these 
beasts to anybody!  This of course doesn't explain why my brother went out 
and bought a new '93 Grand Cherokee Limited.  Cheap Jerokee is more like it. 
 He owned it for two years, put less than 15,000 miles on it, and after much 
screaming and yelling got Chrysler to give him a sweetheart deal related to 
uncorrectable problems in the suspension and with the radio.  In spite of it 
all, he liked the vehicle and bought a new '95 to replace it (fool me once, 
etc...).  Within less than a week, the A/C on the new one quit dead - not 
fun during a hazy hot and humid Texas summer!  Goes to prove why JEEP stands 
for 'Justifies Every Extra Part'.  My wife and I laugh hysterically every 
time that we see a TV commercial touting these 'Legendary' vehicles ... 
they're legendary, all right!

As to the white '95 Discovery that replaced our Jeep, we've driven it 10,000 
miles in 5 months, have observed no real problems, and thoroughly enjoy the 
vehicle.  No oil leaks, no assembly problems, nothing.  Considering its 
off-road capabilities, it really handles Interstate driving with ease 
(unlike the other 4x4's I've owned).  The only thing that stops it is an 
open gas station. :^)  We can't wait for this ski season to try it out in 
the white stuff!  The 7500 mile service was a pleasure - we had the oil & 
filter changed, got the necessary adjustments and inspections, had one of 
the HVAC dampers adjusted, got the rear window washer stem replaced under 
warranty (I broke it in a car wash and told them so), all for $39.  Plus 
they washed the vehicle and gave us a free loaner for the day!   I don't 
expect this luck to hold but it's nice to dream ...

For you folks out there debating whether or not to get the 'factory' CD 
changer, don't mess around; get it.  The integration with the radio front 
end and binnacle controls plus the added warranty protection associated with 
having it dealer installed is worth whatever extra (if any) you might pay 
for a comparable unit.  Besides, it's got a nifty LR logo on the CD 
cartridge door ...

At first the A/C seems a little weak, but judicious use of windshield 
screens when parked, higher fan settings, and careful aiming of the vents 
takes care of most situations for the front and middle passengers.  I am 
considering having the rear and side windows tinted, however, to help out in 
the summer time.  If you're out there, LRNA or Solihull, how about auto-down 
on all four windows and increasing the tinting on the window glass for 
southern climes?

Cheers,

Stuart Williams
'95 Discovery
'93 Volvo 850 GLT 5 speed
'85 Land Cruiser (Sorry folks!)

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Running On Two
From: skidmore@mail02.mitre.org (William E. Skidmore)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 08:46:31 -0400

Stefan R. Jacob wrote:
Tom Rowe wrote:

>> I was down again and out of desperation I put in new plugs. Ran like
>> a top. Three of the four new Champions I had put in the previous
>> year were defective. The moral? Don't overlook the ridiculous.

>Funny you should mention that. Last year, we spent an entire day trying
>to get a rebuilt V8 Efi to fire up and idle properly. Had about a dozen
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 32 lines)]
>Moral: See above...  And even when fitting *new* spark plugs, check the
>gap and don't assume it to have the correct setting, regardless of what
>it says on the pack!

Funny, I thought that it was standard practice to check the gap of new plugs 
before inserting them, as I never trust that the manufacturer would get it 
right (you know, the Japanese comment about Monday morning manufacturing, in 
general, was never that far off the mark!).

Bill (skidmore@mitre.org)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:53:07 -0400
From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg)
Subject: Signing off list.  Back real soon.

Just wanted to let folks know that I'm leaving my current employer and so
I'll be signing this account off of the list.  I'm hoping Majordomo does
his thing, and that you guys don't get hit with a bunch of returned "no
such address" mail.  Normally, NYU would leave the account open for a
while, but because my replacement needs an account, and the ACF is "closed
to redo the database" the only way to get him email by Sept.  is to
transfer my account to him.  I learned this today or I would have
unsubscribed earlier in the week.  Again, my apologies for any glitches
kicked back by my abrupt departure.

For those tracking these things, my new EMAIL address is
jeff@purpleshark.com  I'll be subscribing that address to the list tonight.
Don't talk about anything earth-shattering until I get back! ;-}

Keep on Roverin'!

JAB

==                                                                 ==
 Jeffrey A. Berg              Interactive Telecommunications Program
 Technical Administrator                         New York University
                          berg@acf2.nyu.edu
                          =================
Look what happens when you love someone, and they don't love you.
                                       --Warren Zevon, The Heartache
==                                                                 ==

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:54:55 -0400
From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg)
Subject: Unsubscribe

unsubscribe

------------------------------

From: Anthony Verriello <verriello_anthony@jpmorgan.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:00:24 -0400
Subject: Hood latched, identifying a limited D90

On Tuesday bill wrote about door and hood latches- well...

Im on my second hood latch as well...must be a design thing since this does not seem
to be an isolated case.  

On the topic of door latches:
Has anyone put a hardtop on a 94 D90.  I guess they did not
realize that the damn thing does not have a rear latch key lock.  You should have seen
the reaction of the service department when I picked up my newly installed hardtop
(installed before LR decided to use keyed locks on 95's) and simply asked 
"Ok guys...looks great but how do I get into the back,  crawling back there is a job
for a contorsionist."  Lots'a fun...had to put a 95 lock in it (which by the way is 
simply a latch from an older LR (110?) with a double panelled rear hatch, 
thats why it sticks out so damned much on the D90).  This was the option the dealer
offered me and I wasn't going to do it.  Hoping that the LR engineers would come up
with a neater solution for 95,  they didnt so I had it done anyway...cant leave it 
unlocked here in NY if I want to keep whats in it.

Can anyone tell me if there is a way to identify a 94 D90 originally set up as a limited
production black/leather or one thats been painted and had leather installed?

verriello_anthony@jpmorgan.com
        
 +-+--+-@
 |_|_/|__\__ 
 | _  |' |_ |} (Dagwood...named for his voracious appetite,
 =(_)=+==(_)'             petrol not sandwiches)

NAS '94 black D90 
(happiness is pulling a jeep out of a hole)

  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 10:14:36 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Swivel Balls!

          Ok. So if you look at the inside of a swivel ball,
          there is a machined recess around both the top and
          bottom holes. One recess is larger than the other,
          which of these is top and which is bottom? Also
          I'm bringing them to a local shop to have the
          Railco bushes pressed in, do I need to do this
          with the bearing races as well?
          Confused,
          David Bobeck
          Washington DC
          dbobeck@ushmm.org
          202-488-6588

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:13:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Funny Questions...

>> I did that to my '70 IIa in the mid '70's.  The old IIa door latches were
> prone to popping open.  The new style II latches solved that problem
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> modifications at all.
> Tony

>old IIa  new style II   ????

Mine LR was the new style IIa, just pre-III (metal dash, metal grill,
headlamps in the fenders).  The latches that came on the car were the metal
latch type (similar to your average house door latch).  Over really rough
terrain they would pop open.  I made the conversion to the III anti-burst
within a few years, so they may be the type that you said failed, but mine
never did.  They have a U-shaped latch that wraps around a post (like all
modern cars).

Tony

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 30 Aug 95 10:17:15 EDT
Subject: EZ-Bleed clone

I remember seeing an article somewhere along the line about
an EZ-Bleed clone or method that could be done without access
to an EZ-Bleed kit.

As I can't find one of these mangy gits anywhere and I need to
bleed my 109s brakes, this would be a help. Thanks, ajr

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 30 Aug 95  9:48:38 EDT
Subject: Not specifically relaed to Rovers, but...

...here goes anyway.

Are cars in the UK typically scrapped with their registration
plates, and can these be purchased at a breaker's yard?

I would doubt it, but it can't hurt to ask. I was considering a bit
of decoration for my ofice, and seems
to me that this would be a good one... 

  Pardon the digression, Alan

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:51:18 GMT -0600
Subject:       Re: Running On Two

Bill Skidmore wrote:
> Funny, I thought that it was standard practice to check the gap of new plugs 
> before inserting them, as I never trust that the manufacturer would get it 
> right (you know, the Japanese comment about Monday morning manufacturing, in 
> general, was never that far off the mark!).

Bill,
I always do. By "defective" I meant non-functional. frankly, I've 
been suprised at the number of people on this list who it seems don't 
check the gap before installation. In all the cars I've ever worked 
on (hundreds) I have *never* had new plugs that were gaped to the correct spec.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Brian Neill Tiedemann <s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: aired down???
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:45:22 +1000 (EST)

Ummmm ....
Roger did you say you aired _down_ to 45psi?
If so, from what?!

cheers
BT
77RR
(picturing roger in a LR with BALLOON tyres)
;)

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:58:34 GMT -0600
Subject:       Re: Swivel Balls!

>           Ok. So if you look at the inside of a swivel ball,
>           there is a machined recess around both the top and
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>           Railco bushes pressed in, do I need to do this
>           with the bearing races as well?

If I remember correctly, the bushes will only fit where they belong, 
same for the bearing race (cup), which you migh as well have pressed 
in at the same time.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 07:58:33 -0700
Subject: Re: Discovery Questions (was: Newbie Questions)

On Aug 29,  5:32pm, Dimitry Struve wrote:
> Subject: Discovery Questions (was: Newbie Questions)
> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> one way or the other - specific to this vehicle and trans, not
> manual vs. auto religious opinions.

I have the auto and it shifts very smoothly. The only times when I wish I had
a manual is going up highway hills when the auto typically stays lugging in
4th and slows down (but when I downshift, without moving the accelerator, my
speed picks up and I charge up the hill -- plenty of power). The other times
is offroad going down hill when the (presumably) viscous coupling doesn't
slow me down and keep my speed down as well as I presume a manual would. But
then I could always drop it into to low.

> Every one I crawled under at the dealer had oil leaks. The demo
> unit (2500 miles) was pretty oily underneath. Trouble spots looked
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> Air conditioning didn't seem great - black car sitting outside
> on a sunny; took a long time to cool down. What do people think?

Some have found the a/c fine, but mine is somewhat wimpy in hot Sacramento,
Ca when trying to cool the car down quickly. But on the highway at higher
rpms and constant it does a fine job.

> Xfer case shifter was very difficult to shift, handle was loose.
> Much harder than my manual case Ford. Is this typical?
> A few loose plastic bits. Is this typical?

Yes

> Brakes really stank after a hard (onroad) downhill in 2nd in the
> automatic. No noticeable fade though. Is this a problem?
> A few loose plastic bits. Is this typical?

My brakes are great, although they seem to wear fast if the powder is
brakepad powder. They also whine after dusty trails until the dust is gone.

> Other than that I loved it. The salesman told me to stay on-road,
> and since he trusted me taking it out alone I respected that. But
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> -Dimitry
>-- End of excerpt from Dimitry Struve

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: hub capstan winches
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:02:41 UNDEFINED

\All this talk of receiver-mounted winches vs. bull-bar-mounted vs.
\chassis mounted vs. ... makes me wonder:  what ever happened to the
\old-fashioned hub capstan winch?
\
\This is an extremely elegant solution -- something like a wide brake
\drum bolted onto the outside of the wheel (like the step on an 109FC).
\You bolt one to each rear wheel, fasten a rope to each capstan, and
\pull yourself out as the rope winds around the capstan.
\
\This isn't as macho as a $5,000 lump of machinery bolted onto the front
\bumper, but is has most of the advantages of a PTO winch, and is cheap 
\and light.  It's easier with a (gasp!) VW, where the wheels are held on
\by bolts, as you can use longer bolts to get through the extra metal of
\the capstan, but it shouldn't be too difficult to make something that
\doesn't use up too much thread of the wheel studs.

Has anyone tried using reversed old brake drums? Is there enough stud left 
(considering that you are only using em temprorarily for emergency pullouts 
not for the Paris-Dakar.........)

------------------------------

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:00:26 -0400
Subject: New Galvinized Frame

Last evening, my new 88" galvinized frame arrived at my home.  On inspection,
it appears that it was dropped on its left side; the left gas tank outrigger
is bent along its lower edge, the left rear outrigger is slightly bent along
its lower edge and a small dent is present on the lower left edge of the rear
crossmember.  I immediately called Atlantic British (where I purchased it)
and they are willing to replace any of the outrigger pieces/ rear crossmember
if it turns into a problem on restoration.  I am satisfied with that
resolution, but I wonder if there is anything I can do to see if the frame is
otherwise bent.  (If this were the case, I would feel obliged to return it
for replacement).  Any ideas or comments would be appreciated.

Thanks
Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD USA
NADdMD@aol.com
(410) 429-4964 

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: D90 door & hood latches
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 9:55:06 MDT

Bill Kessels says:
 
  I recently had the passenger door latch replaced after it self
  destructed.  In addition, I am currently on my third (count 'em) hood
  release cable assembly.  When I had the door latch replaced I had both
  doors re-shimmed, appears they were out of adjustment (which may have
  precipitated the latch's failure).  I am wondering if the door problems
  and the hood release problems are due to the body shifting during
  off-road activities, some of it pretty heavy (not to be confused with
  OVLR's definition of "heavy off road"--which is somewhat, ummm,
  "heavier"....:))

  Is body shift causing doors/hood to go out of adjustment normally
  experienced in these situations and could it cause these problems, or is
  it a Land Rover Quality Control problem wrt the hardware?

...and Leland J Roys says:

  There is definately a problem with the hood latch on the Def-90s I am
  also on my second hood latch (covered by warrenty) and I am betting that
  a third is going to be needed.  Bill, did you notice how hard it is to
  pull that danged hood latch, even when replaced with a new one, I think
  it is definately a design problem.

I'm still on my first hood release cable, but it requires the combined
pull of both hands to release it.  I also suspect a design problem -
either the cable is too serpentine or there are too many tight corners
causing high internal friction.  I wonder if it can be lubricated or
re-located?

As for the passenger side door latch, mine just started acting up.
Sometimes it won't latch closed; I slam the door and it just bounces
back at me!  Something inside the unit is hanging up - if I flip the
locking lever back and forth a few times it starts working again.  It
might just need a little lubrication, but since these assemblies are not
designed to be user serviceable (sealed w/rivets), I'm not sure how to
go about that.

FWIW - the rear gate latch is the same as the passenger door latch.
Anybody have problems with these?  I had my original rear latch (no
external lock) replaced with one that had an external lock (just like on
the '95 models).  Those things aren't cheap - about $100.  Hope I don't
have to buy too many after the warantee runs out.

When I took delivery of my vehicle, the drivers door was very hard to
close completely, but the dealer adjusted it and it's been ok since
then.  I've done some "heavy" off highway use, but nothing beyond what
it was designed for (ok, some of those streams were deeper than 20").
The body/frame does flex a bit during some maneuvers - it's more
noticeable with the hardtop as it makes creaking/rubbing noises when it
moves relative to the body or safari cage

--
Jeffrey J. Gauvin
'94 D90, Beluga Black, Hardtop, #1930 (almost a '95!)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:43:07 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: UK Reg plate system

 Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:

>Just to further confuse Rumpole.......
 ..snip..
 Thus:My 88" is DCH 185 J.CH is Nottinghamshire and the J
 denotes 70/71 model year.(Actually first registered Oct 70).
 UT is Leicestershire,HH Carlisle city,AO and RM Cumbria.
 And so on.
 ..snip...
 There,there,your analyst will sort it out....:-)

 Good idea, that's what I'm payin'im for, eh?
 We're off to the club to see the 'analyst'!  Come'on Rumpole...

-Michael "soon to be inebriated" Carradine
 cs@crl.com

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:02:43 -0700
Subject: Re: Jeeps And Other Mistakes

On Aug 30,  8:44am, Stuart Williams wrote:
> Subject: Jeeps And Other Mistakes
> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> they washed the vehicle and gave us a free loaner for the day!   I don't
> expect this luck to hold but it's nice to dream ...

Are you saying that your 7500 mile servicing at the dealership was only
$39??? I have been told around $250 by several folks. Wow!!!

> Cheers,
> Stuart Williams
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> '85 Land Cruiser (Sorry folks!)
>-- End of excerpt from Stuart Williams

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:40:36 -0700
From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: New Galvinized Frame

> and they are willing to replace any of the outrigger pieces/ rear crossmember
> if it turns into a problem on restoration.  I am satisfied with that
> resolution, 

> Nate Dunsmore

  ???? Are they going to re-galvinize the whole thing after they weld the
rplacements on?? I wouldn't accept it unless it is a very simple straightening
job.

R, bg

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 12:37:44 EST
Subject: New Frame -- Bent or Not?

Somewhere I've seen a diagram showing linear dimensions 
between critical frame points, maybe in my Series 2 factory 
manual(?).  Call AB (or any other supplier) to ask if they 
can mail a copy of such a diagram.  Then you can check dims 
while the new frame is flat on the ground and before 
build-up.

Hank

P.S.
Where is Boring, MD?  Montgomery County is way too exciting.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:55:26 GMT -0600
Subject:       Re: New Galvinized Frame

 Nate Dunsmore writes:
> Last evening, my new 88" galvinized frame arrived at my home.  On inspection,
> it appears that it was dropped on its left side; the left gas tank outrigger
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> resolution, but I wonder if there is anything I can do to see if the frame is
> otherwise bent.  (If this were the case, I would feel obliged to return it
> for replacement).  Any ideas or comments would be appreciated.
The official shop manual has frame dimensions.

(Placing weldor's hat on)
As for replacing outriggers, the only way obviously is to weld them 
on. When you weld the galved fram you will burn off the zinc in the 
weld area thus loosing the benefit of the hot dipping. Sure there are 
spray on zinc coatings, but none are as good as hot dipping.
That's why when I get a new frame for my 109 I will get a plain one. 
I want to weld some brackets to it and then I'll get it dipped 
myself.

So, I would think carefully before agreeing to just accept 
replacement parts for the frame. Besides, if the trucking company 
dropped it, it should have been insurred. If AB shipped it bent, then 
they should have known better.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:06:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: UK registrations

From:	IN%"M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk"  "Mike Rooth" 30-AUG-1995 04:49:01.84
To:	IN%"Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.com"
CC:	
Subj:	RE: UK Reg plate system

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

Just to further confuse Rumpole.......
M'lud,I submit..
"Tilt" applies to truck cabs,usually.The tilt is the
tent like canvas affair that covers the pickup bed,
and is supported on hoops like a soft top.In fact
it *is* a soft top in a way,except it (obviously)
doesnt cover the cab.
A little more about reg no's,although its difficult
to follow Bill's excellent explanation.
My 1932 MG was CV 6630.Howver,as Bill said,they ran out
of the ABC 1234 format.So then they changed it to
123 ABC format.So it became ABC 123 A.Same thing happened.
So now we've got A 123 ABC.
The last two letters denote the issuing county(or authority)
Thus:My 88" is DCH 185 J.CH is Nottinghamshire and the J
denotes 70/71 model year.(Actually first registered Oct 70).
UT is Leicestershire,HH Carlisle city,AO and RM Cumbria.
And so on.
There,there,your analyst will sort it out....:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth

Return-path: <LRO-Owner@uk.stratus.com>
 <01HUO72OIMF48X8SJM@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:48:50 EST
 (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA26337 for <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>; Wed,
 30 Aug 1995 04:34:26 -0400
 ns.ge.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id EAA17003 for <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>;
 Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:48:43 -0400
 transfer.stratus.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id EAA03123; Wed,
 30 Aug 1995 04:46:24 -0400
 DAA18312 for land-rover-owner-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:33:39 -0500
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:33:30 -0300 (BST)
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: UK Reg plate system
Errors-to: LRO-Owner@uk.stratus.com
Message-id: <199508300833.DAA18312@butler.uk.stratus.com>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Precedence: 	bulk
X-To: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
X-Cc: lro@team.net
X-edited-by: LRO-Lite

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:07:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: UK registrations

    Oops, sorry about that last one...

    Anyway, with the very orderly, if somewhat confusing, rules for
    British plates, what can we tell about the Lotus 7 driven by Patrick
    McGoohan as "The Prisoner"?  It was KAR 120C

    Duncan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 10:24 MST
From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II)
Subject: The Bridges of Land Rover County

>From the british-cars list:
---------------------------------------------------------------------

In my daydreams, a LR fits in approximately this way: 

******Fantasy follows*********

Francesca glanced into the mirror by the door.  The image was of a
handsome woman, who resembled Meryl Streep.  As she returned to the porch
with her iced tea, she heard the moan of a tortured 4 cylinder engine, and
saw a plume of dust in the driveway.  A battered red Land Rover creaked to
a halt, and a dusty, sweaty figure emerged.  He wore threadbare jeans and
a khaki shirt with epaulets.  Three brownie kodaks hung from his ample
neck. 

"Hi," said the stranger.  "I'm Robert Kingibbons.  Do you mind if I take 
off my shirt?  Damn thing is sticking to my manly, albeit slightly saggy, 
pects."

Francesca drew in her breath shakily.  He must be at least 50, if not
more.  Yet there was something about the way he moved... Like a panther...
No, like a tiger...  No, like a Lynx.  That was it.  Like a Lynx.  A
Mercury Lynx.  He was dirty and somewhat overweight, and very sweaty.  But
he had a battered red Land Rover with a safari roof, and epaulets--the
aura was undeniable, especially if you stood downwind... 

"No," Francesca replied, "take it off, please.  Take it all off..."
   

   Ray Gibbons  Dept. of Molecular Physiology & Biophysics
                Univ. of Vermont College of Medicine, Burlington, VT
                gibbons@northpole.med.uvm.edu  (802) 656-8910

------------------------------

From: Robert Watson (CNA) <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 10:10:45 TZ
Subject: Re: Jeeps And Other Mistakes

For me, the "invoice" price of just the oil change was ~$50. 
Fortunately, I had a coupon for this, but I'd expect the "full" 7500 mi 
Service to be in the neighborhood quoted below. I still have 4000 miles 
to wait on this, though.

-- Bob Watson
'95 Disco
----------
| Are you saying that your 7500 mile servicing at the dealership was only
| $39??? I have been told around $250 by several folks. Wow!!!

------------------------------

From: jory@figment.mit.edu (Jory Bell (prichard))
Subject: Re: New Galvinized Frame
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:00:27 -0400 (EDT)

Here's my opinion on your new bent frame,

1. I would accept nothing short of a new, unbent frame. That they even
   suggested repairing damaged goods and selling it to you as new is
   outrageous (and the outrage is only amplified by the galvanisation!)

   After they replace yours, they can take the old one and repair and
   resell it as a repaired demo model or whatever...

2. If this is representative of AB, boy am I glad I never had the chance to
   buy anything from them.

3. Does AB still make their own frames? Years ago (5?) Several years ago
   someone told me they welded up their own, but that they were poorly
   dimensioned. Can anyone confirm of deny?

jory bell

------------------------------

From: iharper@afm.org
Subject: Parking Brake
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 15:15:39 EST

How do I get the drum off the transmission brake to replace the shoes?  
Gentle persuasion doesn't seem to work, even with a small crowbar between 
the drum and the back plate (I don't want to bend it!)  The bolts are 
loose after the nuts come off, and I an afraid of losing them inside, just 
in case they drop in and then I can't get the ^$^#*! thing off.....Any 
suggestions?  (The adjuster is already slackened off all of the way)

---
 This copy of Freddie 1.2.5 is being evaluated.

------------------------------

From: wharton@mail.scra.org
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 15:37:27 EST
Subject: Hood/Bonnet Latches

  
        Since we're on the subject w/ Def 90's - does anyone have a reasonably 
        simple method of attaching a locking mechanism to the hood/bonnet of a 
        Ser IIA?
        
        My son will be parking downtown some this year and I'm not looking 
        forward to replacing batteries and other mechanical paraphernalia on a 
        semi-regular basis.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:10:40 -0400
From: bbonner@mail.htp.com (Brian Bonner)
Subject: Re: Tyres and Tubes

>Tyres on the 16" rims should always be fitted with tubes. The rim is not 
>designed for a tubeless tyre and doesn't have the bead retainer that stops 
>you peeling the tyre from the rim under heavy side loads. With radials be 

Why do you say that 16" rims are not desiegned for tubless tires? I would
think that would depend on the rim. Example my 94 D90 comes with 16" rims
and tubless tires.
                                        
                                   -=>Brian<=-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:02:03 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Parking Brake

 Somebody, somewhere with the address <iharper@afm.org> and using an
 evaluation copy of "Freddie 1.2.5" writes:

>How do I get the drum off the transmission brake to replace the shoes?  
 Gentle persuasion doesn't seem to work, even with a small crowbar between 
 the drum and the back plate (I don't want to bend it!)  The bolts are 
 loose after the nuts come off, and I an afraid of losing them inside, just 
 in case they drop in and then I can't get the ^$^#*! thing off.....Any 
 suggestions?  (The adjuster is already slackened off all of the way)

 I'd release the handbrake first.  Then check the adjusters, you may have
 tightened them instead of loosening them, and be sure they're set in a
 groove and not a point on the rotation cycle.  Next, the drum and driveline
 should rotate, put the Rover in neutral and push the gentle giant.  After
 rotating the drum, push it back on the rotation action a bit at a time
 --rotate and pull in one action.  The shoes may have just buried themselves
 into the drum with wear and need to overcome a slight depression.  They
 should settle back far enough to let you remove the drum.  Squirting WD40
 into the backside of the drum may also help.  Prying the drum probably
 won't damage it any, it's tough, but go against a 2x4 or other object
 securely braced to the frame, not the backing plate or tranny.  All else
 fails, torch the sucker off and melt down all the parts --that'll teach'em!

 Michael Carradine         ?           '65 IIA 88" 'Rumpole of the Bay' at
 cs@crl.com                _\    __      http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html
                          [__[__[__]
 _________________________(o)___(o)_______________________________________   

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:42:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Locking D90 hood

  
>        Since we're on the subject w/ Def 90's - does anyone have a reasonably 
>        simple method of attaching a locking mechanism to the hood/bonnet of a 
>        Ser IIA?
 
    I've seen a lot of folks use a standard hasp lock on the front. 
    It's ugly as all get-out but I guess it works.

    D90 owners have this problem licked: just let the cable break and
    don't get it fixed, then *nobody* gets under the hood!

    Duncan       

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:57:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Hood/Bonnet Latches

There is a hood latch made for all series vehicles which resembles an 
ordinary hasp through which you put a padlock.  If you can't get one of 
them, use the type hot rodders use that lock on the surface of the hood.  
The unit bolts to the rad frame and then sticks through the hood.  There 
is a key to open the unit.  Hood pins is a common name for this type of 
unit.  Some hot rodders put "D" rings in them with little wires holding 
the ring just for looks.  I have such a unit here I am going to put on my 
Austin.  It comes with a heavy metal centre punch which you place in the 
bolted part on the rad frame and then drop the hood on the point to find 
the spot to drill the hole on the hood if that makes sense. Any auto 
supply store with speed parts will have one for about $15.  Dave VE4PM

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:08:26 -0700
From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: Hood/Bonnet Latches

   
>   Since we're on the subject w/ Def 90's - does anyone have a reasonably 
>   simple method of attaching a locking mechanism to the hood/bonnet of a 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>   forward to replacing batteries and other mechanical paraphernalia on a
>   semi-regular basis.

   How about a genuine Rover bonnet locking hasp? Atlantic British PN 2805

R, bg 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:11:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: New Galvinized Frame

I would second Jory's vote for returning the frame.  For the jack that 
you put down for the new frame expecting it to arrive at your house 
STRAIGHT is not too much to ask.
AB has been more than reasonable when I have dealt with them. Maybe they 
just need a little fire lit under their ass on this incident.

cheers
Russ W

On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, Jory Bell wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> Here's my opinion on your new bent frame,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)]
>    dimensioned. Can anyone confirm of deny?
> jory bell

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:58:45 -0400
From: bbonner@mail.htp.com (Brian Bonner)
Subject: Re: Jeeps And Other Mistakes

>>Are you saying that your 7500 mile servicing at the dealership was only
>>$39??? I have been told around $250 by several folks. Wow!!!

The 7500 service is really only an oil and lube. 49.00 here in  NY. the 1500
mile is the 250.00 service.
                                        
                                   -=>Brian<=-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:03:20 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Right-of-ways

While us folks in the US have witnessed the reduction of off-roading 
opportunities through closure of national forest trails, I never realized 
just how bad it is in the UK, even though I've been reading about LARA as 
written up in the ARC newsletter.  Case in point: Last evening on the 11 
o'clock news, there was footage from some unnamed English town.  It seems 
that someone had built a house on a vacant lot.  However, that lot was the 
route of a long-forgotten right of way, so the local hiking society 
*demanded* use of this right of way.  Cut to scenes of hikers going in the 
front door, through the kitchen and out the back door.  Apparently, *going 
around* the house was not even considered.  Sheesh....
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: Leland J Roys <roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Def-90 Hood Latch
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 16:57:12 PDT

Hi!

Thanks to Easton Trevor for the info about the Def-90 Hood latch. It makes
sense now that the extra weight of a spare tyre on the hood would change
how the spring load works. Does this mean that every time I open the hood
I need to have my girlfriend push down on the hood and then I pull the cable?
She will never buy that story...

Cupertino, California
'94 Defender 90 (Red)
1970 Mooney Aircraft (Off road vehicle for sure)
roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:11:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Francis J. Twarog" <ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: engine conversions

Next Tuesday, I begin the joyous task of building a 109 from scratch... 
the truck was complete before disassembly 3 years ago, but the rebuilt 
engine has since been installed in another 88".  So, the issue has 
arisen, what engine to use?!  The person I'm doing the project with 
suggested a fuel injected Ford straight 6.  He says his F150 (used merely 
to ship completed woodworking projects) has over 150k and has never given 
him trouble - plus it has bags of torque... has anyone seen this done?  
Does anyone know of conversion/bell housing kits etc.?  I'm partial to 
diesel (Perkins?) because of the ease involved, (though it has to be a 
daily driver in -27 degree F Burlington, VT) so if anyone has any input, 
I'd really appreciate the help.  BTW - if anyone in New England knows of 
someone (or is the very person) looking for a 109 built to their specs. 
please let them know that this one will be completed in about 2 months 
(very part-time project) - it is a station wagon with very straight body 
panels and a great condition frame ( recently sprayed and waxolyed).

Frank Twarog
Vermont, USA

P.S. The optimal configuration would be to allow for the capstan winch to 
be used, though it could find a home on one of the other 4 cyl. Rovers...

------------------------------

From: jpappa01@interserv.com
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 19:10:07 PDT
Subject: Re: 	Misc.

- Some LR stuff in the latest issue of Four Wheeler magazine - Camel 95 and an 
article on a Land Rover Centre in California...

- Someone talking about poor AC performance in DISCO. Coupla things - Black 
car - lotsa heat stores up - esp. w/sunroofs - tall glass and alpine lights - 
beaucoup solar heating. Crack open roofs and windows when first starting up - 
a whole lot of hot air will vent out the top - saving the HVAC from having to 
do as much work. Other biggie is the use of R134 freon. I may be good for the 
ozone hole - but it is *NOT* as good as R12 in pulling down the interior 
quickly. It takes longer - but it *WILL* do the job. Remember all of that 
glass! Rear AC does make a big difference if you are in parts of the country 
where it is hot. Rear AC adds additional cooling via evap/condenser unit 
located in back plus five additional vents and a supplemental blower. Both 
units serviced by same compressor.

- Some prelim. info. on `96 Disco - Couple of color changes - Altai Silver, 
Willow green in. Roman bronze, Conniston green, biaritz blue out. Power seats 
optional. Dam mounted fogs optional (a la Rangey style). No info. on pricing 
yet. Expect complete info. first part of next month.

- first D90 SW's to start arriving in November. Nothing still on pricing, 
features, etc.

- 4.0 SE largely unchanged except some color changes. Very limited 
availability of 4.6 model in only a couple of colors w/18" wheel/tire package. 
Price? Don't know - but expect significantly higher than 4.0...

- Powered subwoofer kit now available for D90. Hangs on inside rear tailgate.

- BSROA Fall Heritage, Sept 29 - Oct. 1. Venue will be in the Berkshires. 
Campground chosen in Hancock, MA with sites, cabins, sauna, etc. Campsites 
have electric hookups avail. Off road site at Jiminy Peak and have permission 
to drive all the way to the top! Pig roast planned for Saturday night w/all 
fixin's. Flyer mailing to all BSROA members going out by week's end. RSVP's by 
9/15. Saturday will include comp trial followed by lunch and afternoon off 
road at the peak. Sunday either scenic convoy or visit to new car museum. 
Raffle to be held - vendors on hand. Non-members welcome but Land Rovers only. 
Non-members may request information by calling Club line at 617-545-4743. All 
RSVP's will receive information kit with itinerary, directions, alternate 
lodging, etc. Members will receive event dash plaque as well as a goodie bag 
donated by LRNA! Club members wishing to assist with check-in, admin. and 
off-road marshalling can email me or leave message on club line.

cheerz
Jim - terminal Roveritis - living and breathing them isn't enough...
`67 2A 88 5.OL Hybrid
`67 2A 109 5.0L Hybrid
`68 2B 110 F/C Diesel
`70 P6B 3500S
`90 Range Rover County
`93 D110 (#457/500)
`95 D90 #1958

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:55:32 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Bashing bushes

WRT the thread on frame bushes, I picked this up on the 'net a year or more 
ago.  While I haven't tried it, I've got all the parts and will use it when 
necessary.  Buy a socket almost the same outside diameter as the inside 
diameter of the frame bushing hole.  I said "buy", as the socket will be 
sacrificed/become welded to a pointed .401 Parker shank impact chisel.  Fire 
up the compressor, lay on with the tool and hit the trigger.  The pointed 
chisel centers the tool.

PS - As per yesterday's post about the fiberglass exhaust pipe wrap...take 
all precautions you'd use for installing fiberglass building insulation 
(like long pants and sleeves).  :-0
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:55:55 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Land Rover Rally

I've noticed a few new sig.blocks in the mid-Atlantic area, so for those who 
have just joined us...

         The MID ATLANTIC LAND-ROVER RALLY is one month away!

To be held September 30 - October 1 at Penlan Farm in Buckingham County, VA.
There is ample room for camping on site with nearby (10-20 miles) motels, 
lodges and B&B's.  Saturday will begin with tech sessions for "series" 
owners as well as newer vehicles.  Later there will be a teeter-totter, a 
blind-fold obstacle course and The Aluminium Man (TM) Triathlon.  This 
combines an on-site ARC-style trials course with special tasks (both 
mechanical and pioneer), maybe even a *written* test :-0  on Land-Rover 
history and trivia.

The event is dubbed the "Built Like a Locomotive" rally celebrating almost 
fifty years of locomotive-solid vehicle construction.  Coincidentally, were 
are renting a train for a scenic excursion Sunday morning.  The Buckingham 
Branch Railroad runs close by the site and we will be boarding the antique 
carriages (sorry, it's a 1954 GM diesel locomotive) for a trip down to and 
brunch by the James River.

There will be several vendors in attendance; Rovers North, Atlantic British 
and DAP will all be there.  T-shirts, awards, a BBQ dinner Saturday night 
(baby-back ribs by the "Smokey Pig" restaurant in Ashland) and blue grass 
music 'round the bonfire.  We will have three kegs (a pilsner, a porter and 
a wonderful dark ale) by "Legendary Brewing" a micro-brewery in Richmond.  
All in all, an event not to be missed.  (Check out February's LRO Magazine 
for last year's event.)

Last year, we had 86 vehicles and expect even more this year.  Registration 
is $10 per vehicle ($15 after September 1st - we need to pay for the tents, 
porta-potties, kegs, etc.); the catered meals will be at our wholesale cost 
- about $10 for the Saturday BBQ.  Already we have had reservations from 
Florida, Canada and Massachusettes.  However, we need to know how many we 
will be feeding Saturday; the site is quite rural, so it's not like you can 
nip out to the 7-11 for chips and beer.  If you enclose your name, address 
and number of folks in your vehicle to the below sig.block by Sept. 1, it'll 
still be only a $10 registration fee even if it is mailed in later.

There will be on-line coverage from the event.  Mike's address is 
LR88@aol.com.  Post replies and mail the registrations to the below address.

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 02:08:27 -0400
Subject: SIII / Thermostat.....

At times I'm glad the SIII requires more tinkering than the Range
Rover..........

Thus,  another techie question,  not a burning problem but nonetheless
something I at least oughta ask about since their is a forum for answers.

The temp guage on the Series III is marked simply with a 'C',  for cold,  at
the bottom,  an 'N' in the middle for normal (?),  and an 'H' at the top,
 for hot,  and the last portion of the scale is marked in red (for Jump and
Run?).....

Well,  since I've owned Jesse the temp guage at operating temperature always
reads about 1/8 inch below the red.   Well above the 'N' but not quite into
the red area.   No other signs of overheating.....no pinging,  no boil over,
 no strange smell or behavior.
Not too worried though I did replace the thermostat and did use the correct
type with the apron around the bottom.   Temp guage still reads exactly the
same.   So,  ya reckon it's the guage.....?   Does anyone elses consistently
read above normal ('N') mark.  Would slighltly incorrect timing make it run a
bit warmer?    Any ideas welcome.

Thanks.......
Rick Crider  KD4FXA
<rickcrider@aol.com>
Monroe  NC
' 66 SIIA   109"    (Hugo).......    and for sale..........
' 73 SIII     88"     (Jesse)......My pet who gets anything he wants.....
' 88 Range  Rover......no name......My daily pack mule......

------------------------------

From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@s101dcascr.wr.usgs.gov>
Subject: Re: SIII / Thermostat.....
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:10:00 -0700 (PDT)

>>>>> RICKCRIDER@aol.com writes:

> Well,  since I've owned Jesse the temp guage at operating temperature always
> reads about 1/8 inch below the red.   Well above the 'N' but not quite into
> the red area.   No other signs of overheating.....no pinging,  no boil over,
>  no strange smell or behavior.

> Not too worried though I did replace the thermostat and did use the correct
> type with the apron around the bottom.   Temp guage still reads exactly the
> same.   So,  ya reckon it's the guage.....?   Does anyone elses consistently
> read above normal ('N') mark.  Would slightly incorrect timing make it run a
> bit warmer?    Any ideas welcome.

Here's another opionion for you...  I'd check out the radiator for 
fouling.  Reason:  For about 5-6 years I ran my Volvo Diesel with the 
temperature gauge in pretty much the same position.  I fussed with it, 
worried about it, read what I could find (not much) and finally decided 
the gauge was very sensitive and and not to worry about it.  This state 
of bliss ended with a blown head gasket a couple of years ago.  The 
higher temp was attributed to the radiator, which I belatedly had 
rodded.  It now runs in the normal position.  Don't ask me about the 
present state of the engine though (anybody got a good used 6 cylinder 
Volvo/Audi/VW engine for sale?)

Rgds,

Walt
========================================================================
Walter Swain      1967 IIA 109 Safari SW, petrol
Davis, CA         1988 Range Rover

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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