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From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:58:53 +0000
Subject:       Re: Yuppie Bashing

On 16 Aug 95, CNA wrote:

> the question, where can you get skid plates and those "Camel Trophy" roof
> racks? (I think I can wait a while longer on the snorkel.) The 12-14" 
> "lift" to clear the sun roof is not very common.

The skip-pan is 6mm steel plating (best with 2" drainage holes) from the 
front protector bar back to just fore of the axle, and a second piece 
covering the gearbox and tranfer box area.

The roofrack will take 5-10mph off your top speed, and can be made from 1" 
square ganvanised tubing.

The snorkle is best made from standard plastic waste-pipe (about 4" 
diamiter) with a K&N conical filter protected by the roll-cage

I thought the NAS D90 had 14 million miles of headroom and not a sun-roof 
:-)

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Aug 95 19:34:39 PDT
From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
Subject: RE: Springs (again) 

Snowploughs in Luton(?)!!!!!!

Do you know something I don't? I'm thinking of taking the hard top 
off if this  hot weather continues much longer.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Aug 95 19:26:50 PDT
From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
Subject: RE: August LRO & single malt... :-) 

Look at the current (August?) issue of LRW.  There is an article by 
someone who was a L/R service engineer in Canada/Alaska in the '60s. 
 This seems to redress the balance. 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Thu, 17 Aug 1995 07:23:21 GMT -0600
Subject:       Re: seal number

> Does anyone know the seal numbers in an American (N. American that is!) 
> product for the bull nose crank shaft seal.  This is the one on the chain 
> house.  I would like to replace it but don't want to pull the old one 
> till I get a new seal and I have misplaced the list of seals I keep.  

Dave,
For the 2.25 and 2.6 SIIa engine timing cover seal I have a double 
lip PN. Chicago Rawhide #19220. Any other make should be able to 
cross from it. 

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Revival of Old Rovers
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 08:55:00 DST

Hal Leininger wants to revive a Rover after 10 years of disuse. Once again I 
recommend the 50/50 diesel oil/transmission fluid mix. Remove plugs pour in 
and wait as long as possible (but not another 10 years)  before rotating 
engine slowly by hand.(This worked for Howard Fisk when his " parts car" to 
be became a runner and one of the family.)

Good Luck

Trevor Easton. Grimsby, Ontario.
1962 SIIA SWB SW 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:09:25 GMT -0600
Subject:       Radiator hose

The upper hose for the 2.25l is:
Dayco #70687. It cost $5.85 US.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: 17 Aug 95 09:30:27 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Reviving Old Rovers

Hal writes:

>> What's the best way to revive a Rover that's been sitting outside for 10
years unused

Generally, it's to put gas in it, charge the battery (or put a new one in) and
start it up...  More than likely, it will run.  

I have revived a couple that sat for 10 - 15 years with no more than fresh gas
and jumper cables.

However, there are some things you should do before starting...

-- Drain the old gas.  it is probably turpentine anyway.  
-- Change the oil
-- Add fluids to the axles, transmission, diffs, etc.  Look at the manual.  When
in doubt, oil it..
-- check to make sure nothing has "nested" in the air filter, air hose,
cylinders or exhaust.
-- Clean the fuel filter screen and empty the sediment bowl
-- Take the plugs out and make sure the cylinders are free of (mouse-borne)
debris
-- while plugs are out, use the starting handle to make sure the engine is
'free' and not seized
-- check the carb to see that it squirts gas when you pump the throttle
-- make sure the throttle and clutch linkages, etc are free and operable (Clutch
may be frozen to the flywheel)

If all of these things are ok, drip some gas in the carb, prime the fuel pump
(there is a handle on the bottom of it -- pump it a couple of dozen times) fire
it up. 

Betcha a dollar that if it was running when parked, it starts right up!

Before you drive it on the road... Check the brakes (look for oil-soaked pads
and worn out pads -- also mis-adjusted brakes, especially if they have been
reassembled with the springs in the wrong places).  Check the lights and
signals.  Lift up each wheel to make sure the bearings are not *totally* shot --
you don't want them to drag.  Check the steering box (make sure it and the relay
have oil in them).  Make sure your frame is not rusted to the point of breaking
off at an axle or  bodymount (It will still drive in this condition, but I
wouuld not recommend it!).

Another factor, of course, is where it has sat.  The ones I revived had sat in
Texas sun for 15 years.  Rubber was all baked to a black, hard crisp.  But there
was not a spot of rust anywhere and the engines were unseized.  If it has sat in
the Pacific Northwest or in Maine for 10 years... might be a different story
entirely.

Anyway, if you need any help, let me know -- I have talked several people
through work and restorations on the phone..  There are lots of people (me
included) on this list who will drop everything for a Saturday or after work to
help you get your Land Rover up and running.  I look at it as a personal
challenge and a way to rescue yet another irreplaceable Series LR...  

Cheers, 

R. Pierce Reid

------------------------------

Date: 17 Aug 95 09:30:28 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: LR Dealers separate.

Anthony writes:

<< What amazes me about Zumbach is that they have many makes of vehicle under
one roof.  I had << heard that LR dealers had to be exclusively LR. 

I have heard the same and 2 dealers I know of (Foreign Motors West in Natick and
Decarie Motors in Montreal) had to actually build new facilities for their LR
dealers, moving them out from the Rolls-Royce dealerships.

Midwest Auto Group here in OH, where I bought my D90, has Lotus, Rolls/Bentley,
Ferrari, Porsche, Volkswagon  and Land Rover. Personally, I'd get the VW dealer
out of there... Last time I was there a Continental R (MSRP $245,000)  had been
dented by the little brat of a family looking at a VW.  Bodywork will probably
cost more than the VW they were looking at.

Cheers, 

R. P. Reid

------------------------------

From: MDAY@NARVAX.NAR.EPA.GOV
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:09:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: Craddocks for USA purchasers...

John Friedman wrote:

>Has anyone had any experience buying parts from Craddocks? Could you pass
>on any tips? Any bad experiences?

   I'm sorry to say I did have a bad experience with this company. Now before
you all jump down my throat (because I have heard some good stuff on the
list about them) let me explain. We were purchasing over $1500 worth of interior
stuff like sounding material, seats, etc and ended up spending loads more in
the end. We were quoted prices so we sent a check. By the time the stuff was
in stock Land Rover had raised the prices. Craddock decided that we should pay
the new price despite the fact that they had already deposited our check.
When we questioned John Craddock himself about this he replied that it was 
better for him to cash the check when he received it, so it wouldn't get lost.

  We also had to pay shipping to Craddock. So thinking we would get a call from
the airport when our purchase arrived, we waited. Instead a shipping company 
called and said we would need a broker to get our stuff through customs since
we had over $250 in merchandise. So we called a broker company. They charged 
us $110 for the paperwork. We also payed a tax for customs, and then had to pay
the shipping company for picking our packages up from the airport. When we 
asked Craddock about this John claimed he was not responsible for knowing about
every state in the US's importing practices. So take it anyway you like, I know
I won't be buying from them again.

HTH,
        MTD

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 08:59:32 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Early 60s colour schemes

In message <199508170318.UAA19818@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> Jeremy Bartlett 
writes:
> I seem to recall someone posted on this before, so my apologies if I'm 
> covering old ground.  I was wondering what the appropriate colour 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> Cheers,
> Jeremy Bartlett

Jeremy, (I just noticed I keep mispelling your name, my appologies)
You have a IIa 109 stationwagon so:

top top is limestone white.  A variation on stationwagons with tropical roofs is
the top the same colour as the body and the heat shield limestone white.

Wheel are limestone white.

sides of top and rear door are same colour as the body.

So if you have a tropical top, remove the heat shield, get the whole car sprayed
the colour of your choice, spray the heat shield & wheels limestone white and 
you have it.

If your car does not have a theat shield, just spray the top section of the top 
limestone white & the rest of the car the colour of your choice.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: 17 Aug 95 12:30:14 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <PREID@csi.compuserve.com>
Subject: Installing rear seat in D90

The latest in a series on how to add the best features of a Series Land Rover to
your D90... So far have added a pintle-hitch, trailer wiring, gaiters, and --
now -- an inward-facing bench seat.

How to add an inward-facing rear bench seat:

I ordered my seat from BLRS in Birmingham.  I ordered a "Rear Bench Seat,
Complete" in Neptune Cloth, which is similar (though not identical) to the U.S.
Spec. D90 upholstry.  Price, including shipping, was about 1/3rd the cost of a
vinyl seat from U.S. Suppliers and 1/6 the cost of a LRNA optional seat.

The seat comes without any hardware, so the first order of business is to
assemble the following hardware:

For attaching the seat back to the seat base:  2 - 1" allen-head machine screws
(or similar), 6 flat washers, 2 nylock nuts.  All 1/4 inch.

For attaching the seat back to the fender well -- 2 - 7/16 bolts, 2 - 7/16
lockwashers, 2 - 7/16 nuts, 2 - large flat washers

For attaching the seat back to the rear box lip -- 2 - 1/4 x 2" bolts, 2 - nuts,
2 lockwashers, 2 - 1.5" spacers, 2 large flat washers.

For attaching the seat back pillow to the frame, 4 - 1/2 inch long stainless
philips screws.

Also, a set of shoelaces to secure the bottom pillow to the seat frame once
installed.

The seat appears to be a straightforward installation... but, appearances can be
deceiving.  The roll cage diagonal support interferes with the seat back, so it
must be mounted about 1.5 inches away from the box sides.  Also, moving the seat
too far rearward (to try and clear the diagonal) can interfere with the
speakers.   Also, because the rear lip on the D90 is boxed, you can't get your
hands in to put the nuts on the bolts, so you have to drill your holes for the
bolts close to the only two openings large enough to get your fingers in...

Locate the seat back so that it clears the bed lip by about 1.5 inches and so
that the rear part of the frame is about 1 inch from the end of the lip near the
rear panel.  This boxed-section is open at the end and you will be able to reach
in and put the lockwasher on the bolt later on.  When lined up in this position,
the forward part of the seat back should be close to a 3" x 2" opening in the
boxed section at the base of the roll cage.  This gives you the other opening
where you can reach in with a nut and lockwasher.

Once you have your seat aligned, mark the location to bolt the seat back to the
floor.  Cut two small holes in the rear mat and then drill a pilot and a 7/16
hole through the aluminum fender.  Bolt this in place, but don't tighten
fully... you will be taking it out again.

Mark the seat back and the bed lip where you want the 2" top securing bolts to
go through.  You will have to guestimate a bit, but a level may help.  

Remove the seat back and drill 1/4" holes in both the seat back and in the box
section of the bed.

Re-install the seat back (but don't tighten... you'll take it out again!) and
line up the 2" bolts into the holes.  You will now need to install some kind of
spacer to maintain the 1.5 inch space between the seat back and the bed.  I used
1/4" ID aluminum tubing, cutting each piece to fit (there is no set length
here... just cut what works).  

Once this is done, take the seat back out again, leaving the 2" bolts in place,
hanging through the holes.  Install the seat back using the 4 stainless phillips
screws (there is exposed fibreboard on the seats as shipped from BLRS.  I
attached a piece of black naugahyde over the exposed fiberboard using contact
cement... both for aesthetics and to protect it from water.)

Now, install the bolts through the fenderwell.  Put on the lock washer and use a
large flat-washer up against the fender.  I coated mine with Silicone caulk
because I don't want water coming in through the hole.

Install the 2" bolts with the spacer, a large flat washer, put through your hole
in the box section and then put on a lock washer and a nut.  This will be tough
to tighten, but it can be done.  You'll have to reach into the box section and
hold the nut with your finger until it gets tight.

Now, install the seat bottom using the washers, allen screw and nylock nut to
keep it from vibrating loose.  

Tie the bottom pillow in place and you're done... you have a seat.  The whole
process took about 2 hours including 2 trips to the hardware store.

*Disclaimer*  I recommend not using this seat while the vehicle is moving unless
you install approved seatbelts.  Since I plan really only to use it as a place
to sit and clean shotguns and smoke cigars, I do not have seatbelts... This
installation is not to be intended to imply that inward-facing bench seats
provide adequate protection for passengers in the event of an accident.  Use
these seats for passengers at your own risk.

Anyway... next installment will probably be either the installation of a
gun/security box on the other fenderwell or, perhaps, a work-light.

Cheers, 

R. Pierce Reid

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:39:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Miscellaneous stuff

All,
    About reviving engines that have been napping for a decade:

    I agree with most of what's been said so far, but I have one
    additional point to make.  If an engine has been sitting uncranked
    for several years, you are almost certainly going to have a problem
    with some valve springs.  The ones that have sat compressed that
    whole time are likely to not return to their full length when
    finally released.  I've seen a couple of engines like that (one was
    a TR6 I bought), and there's massive valve float on the affected
    valves.

    I don't think you should underestimate the importance of running
    some sort of penetrant/lubricant down the sparkplug holes and giving
    it time to work.  (Marvel Mystery Oil would be another choice.)  If
    the remaining oil film on the rings and pistons has turned to
    sludge, you could have a problem with rings being stuck and not
    floating around properly right away.  On this same TR6 there was
    severe scuffing of the pistons and cylinders, even to the point of
    lapping the piston body OVER TOP OF the ring groove on one piston,
    keeping it from ever returning to a centered position.

    From what I've seen of early Land Rovers, the net effect of ignoring
    this advice would be a couple of MPG loss, and a drop in engine life
    to 300K miles, heh heh heh...  (I drove mine for 36 hours in a
    period of 40, with the number 4 exhaust valve burned away and slowly
    collapsing farther up into head...my gas mileage and constant need
    to adjust the valve were my only strong clues anything was wrong!)

    On the subject of tires:

    I'm sure this is a quick way to get a religious war going but I'll
    tell you some info I've gathered in my recent quest for new tires...

    -- I had been running Dunlop Radial Rovers.  These lasted about
    45,000 miles, were quiet on the road, and were decent off-road
    performers early in their life.  After 10 or 15K miles, though, they
    just wouldn't clean out when faced with deep mud or snow.  I never
    got stuck in snow, and only got stuck in the mud at Rovers North
    where everyone else was getting stuck too, but the traction just
    wasn't what it should have been and not even what it was when they
    were brand new.

    -- I drove someone's 1994 D90 the day they bought it.  It had the
    BFG Mud Terrain tires.  Maybe it was the power steering (I'm used to
    my 1960 SII 88), maybe it was the tires, but I could not control
    that thing on back country paved roads.  It was all over the place
    to the point of being downright lethal.  It felt like I would expect
    my Rover to if I put about 80psi in the tires....but this guy
    claimed they were inflated properly.  Anyone else have this
    experience, or can someone verify that the tires must have just been
    overinflated?

    -- Lanny at RN offered up as much advice/opinion on tires as I
    wanted to hear.  He bases his opinions on observation and direct
    experience with his own vehicles and with those used in the off-road
    school and to travel to events around the US.  He said the Mud
    Terrains are superb off-road but that they were *gone* at about 20K
    miles.  (This is borne out by the experience of my friend with the
    94 D90; I think he replaced them at about 18K!!!!)  That's fine for
    the off-road school, but for someone with a more realistic budget,
    he recommended the BFG Trac-Edge as being only slightly less capable
    off-road, but much longer wearing, and significantly quieter on
    pavement.  They use those on the school vehicles too.

    -- I ended up buying the Trac-Edge.  Lanny suggested for the older
    88's that 215/85 16 would be a better choice than the standard
    235/85 16.  (This harks back to the "cut through or float" argument
    about wide vs. narrow tires...)  I went with his advice, and they
    look and fit fine.  They are slightly higher noise on pavement than
    the Dunlops, but wind and drivetrain noise drown it out anyway. 
    Once I replace my engine, I'll be taking it offroad and can report
    back on the performance there...but they sure *look* quite capable! 
    I got them for US$111 each.  High quote while shopping around was $154
    each.  It pays to look around!  They are *obscure* in this country,
    but be persistent.  Don't let them mistakenly get you "Trail Edge"
    or "Edge" tires.  You want "Trac-Edge".

    -- To anyone with the ex-military Michelins (is it XCL's?): I would
    expect those to be just outrageously noisy on pavement, not to
    mention a little wandery.  What has your experience been?  Since the
    Rover is my only vehicle, and I work 5 days a week, I am forced to
    spend a lot of time on pavement, and cannot ignore that aspect when
    looking at tires.  I suppose I could buy an extra 4 wheels and
    mount up something like XCL's for serious off-road adventures...but
    then everywhere I go off-road is over an hour (on dry pavement)
    away, so I've still got a problem!

    Duncan, eager to head into the woods on the new tires...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 10:02:54 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: LR Dealers separate.

In message <199508171342.IAA27410@butler.uk.stratus.com> "R. Pierce Reid" 
writes:
 
;I have heard the same and 2 dealers I know of (Foreign Motors West in Natick 
> and
; Decarie Motors in Montreal) had to actually build new facilities for their LR
> dealers, moving them out from the Rolls-Royce dealerships.
;
Last time a chatted with a dealer, San Jose British Motors, they were building a
new  facility for the Rovers down the street.  They said Rover offered them a 
better deal on cars including larger allocations if they had a Rover only dealer
location.  I guess LRNA is trying to establist a dealer chain that has a Rover 
identity.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 10:26:52 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Craddocks for USA purchasers...

In message <199508171411.JAA27492@butler.uk.stratus.com>  writes:

> We also had to pay shipping to Craddock. So thinking we would get a callfrom
; the airport when our purchase arrived, we waited. Instead a shipping company 
; called and said we would need a broker to get our stuff through customs since
> we had over $250 in merchandise.

Unless you get a conatiner full of stuff, your order normally gets packed in a 
container full of a lot of other orders.  A fraight forwarder usually is tagged 
for getting the paperwork & stuff sorted.  Last one cost me US$40.  I took the 
forms directly to customs myself and paid the import duty.  If you had the 
company do the customs work, the high charges may have come from that.

 So we called a broker company. They charged 
; us $110 for the paperwork. We also payed a tax for customs, and then had to 
> pay
; the shipping company for picking our packages up from the airport.

I did not have to deal with that.  It was covered in the regular shipping 
charges.

 When we 
> asked Craddock about this John claimed he was not responsible for knowing 
; about
> every state in the US's importing practices. So take it anyway you like, I 
; know
> I won't be buying from them again.

It looks like your problems came from: 

1. Craddock policy of cashing checks as they come in
2. Craddock not having the parts you ordered in stock and passing on the price 
increase when they had to pay more for the parts from Rover.
3. You did not fully understand the beaurocratic shipping/customs process and 
paid for some things that you could have done yourself and got cought in 
shipper's get rich schemes.

Item 3 should not be considered Craddock's fault

One of the big problems about sending checks to the UK is that it takes time and
prices can change.  Also, prices are generally subject to parts on hand.

The least painful way to handle UK purchased is to FAX them with your proposed 
order asking prices & availability..  Make your order by FAX providing a credit 
card number and specifying FedEx or UPS.  The credit card company handles 
currency changes, UPS or FedEx handles all the shipping & customs.  The parts 
arrive on your doorstop in about 3 days from when it was shipped.  You pay for 
the convience, but is is painless.

The cheapest way is to get together with a lot of people & stuff a container.  
You should make orders through FAX so there is less chance of misunderstandings,
pay by credit card if at all possible, if possible call a couple of fraight 
forwarders to get cheapest prices & take the paperwork through customs yourself.

I thought the shipper/freight forwarder/custums circus was a royal paine too the
first time I did it.  But a lot of it was not knowing what to expect or how to 
do all the stuff.  I think you would have had the same sort of experiences with 
any UK company that did not have all the parts in stock during a time when Rover
is busy raising prices on just about everything.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 11:47:44 -0600 (MDT)
From: Rob Bailey <baileyr@cuug.ab.ca>
Subject: Couple more LR questions...

Hello!
  My '63 Series IIa 88 is slowly getting closer to being ready to hit the 
trails... The brakes are much, much better needing only two pumps before 
actually stopping the vehicle! The steering is much more precise and a 
lot more of the small things (lights, hood latch, floor boards, etc..) 
are installed and working. I have come across a couple of things that I 
hope the list will be able to help me with:

1) The transfer case engage/disengage rod was not properly installed when 
I bought it. The PO had to pull up on the rod while changing from High to 
Low to High again to bring it out of 4WD. I put the spring and knob back 
in, but it doesn't seem to work quite right. The High/Neutral/Low control 
no longer has positive detents, and the 4WD lever pops up when going into 
Low. It is very difficult to get it to stay in 4 Low. 4 High works great. 
I suspect that the rod and floorboards are not quite aligned, but I 
haven't had time to tear it out again. I thought that it was supposed to 
pop out of 4WD when you shifted: High-Neutral-Low-High. Mine pops out 
when you shift: High-Neutral-Low.

2) It currently has a tach in it, but I would would like to replace it 
with a 270 degree type (the current one is only 90 degree, not quite as 
accurate). The problem is that the tach's that I have looked at all say 
they are for negative ground systems. They are in plastic cases, so 
insulating them from the chassis is not a problem. Anybody used such a 
tach?

Thanks, I'm sure I will have more questions as I continue playing with 
my LR.

Rob

------------------------------

From: Mike Dryfoos <mikedr@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 10:44:03 TZ
Subject: RR power steering pulleys and LR carb adjustments

Matt Snyder reported that the power steering pulley sheared off on his 
'88 RR, and wondered if it was related to the leaking power steering 
pump.  My wife had the same experience in our '92 RR -- the pulley just 
separated into two pieces, an inner and outer, while driving down the 
freeway.  She managed to get it the 80 miles home without requiring a 
tow.  I hadn't noticed any leakage in our power steering pump before or 
since, so I doubt there is any connection in Matt's case.  Just some 
bad pulleys, I guess.

Now that I've got your attention, I have a question about my '71 SIIA.  
It doesn't seem to be able to hold the idle speed adjustment at the 
carburator correctly.  It tends to drop off into an excessively low 
idle, causing occasional stalls at stop lights.  I've played with the 
throttle stop adjustment screw on the carb, but after a short time it 
sinks back into a too-slow idle.  Any suggestions on what I should 
check to get it to cooperate?  The truck is equipped with a Zenith 
carb.  It also has a Crane Cams electronic ignition, installed by the 
previous owner, if that is likely to make a difference.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 11:25:05 -0700
Subject: re: Yuppies
From: Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo)

Rick Larson writes:

> Yuppies just got caught in my frustration with LRNA.  Despite LRNA
> efforts
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
> fording,
> protection plates, heavy duty winches, etc....

Given the high cost of dealer equipment, why even bother going to them?
Owners of Series Land Rovers seem to do fine getting parts from the UK
so why not skip the dealer and buy from UK aftermarket supplies?  You'll
probably get better quality stuff, too.

Also, getting custom-fabricated skid plates shouldn't cost much more
than whatever Land Rover can provide.  This kind of engineering is
within the capabilities of most metal shops.

...lars (who may one day own a Land Rover 110 but is very happy with
         his '91 Wrangler [4.0L, Lockright locker, 31x10.50 BFG M/Ts,
         Warn 8274, *aftermarket* 2.5" spring lift <g>])

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 14:53:09 EST
From: lenagham@bachman.com
Subject: Re: Range Rover Power Steering Pulleys.

     I sent the following message to Matt Snyder yesterday, having just read 
     Mike Dryfoo's message on the subject, it seems like the problem was not 
     confined to early Range Rovers or a bad batch of pulleys (unless it was a 
     big batch!).
     
     Matt,
     
     the pulley on the power steering pump of my 87 Range Rover aslo 
     sheared off about 3 years ago. I was not having any problems with the 
     pump leaking.
     
     I was told by someone who used to work at Rovers North at the time, 
     that this was not an uncommon problem.
     
     Also at that time I was working for a company that was doing some 
     joint development work with Rover. My sheared pulley was hand carried 
     from Bedford MA. where I worked, back to Solihull. The folks there 
     said they knew nothing of the problem and it was probably due to the 
     belts being too tight!
     
     Personally, I think it was likely that the bolts holding the pulley to 
     the pump worked themselves loose causing excessive force on the 
     pulley.
     
     I installed a new pump along with a new pulley, not knowing if the 
     original pump was damged when the pulley sheared.
     
     I still have the original power steering box (100k miles) and this 
     leaks when it gets very cold (usually below 20F), so all I do is keep 
     the resevoir topped up during the New Hampshire winters. I've got 
     through 2 winters so far, it sure beats the approx $900 for a new 
     steering box.
     
     Regards
     Mike

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 17:54:06 PDT
From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
Subject: Back on the Air!

Having re-installed the previous version of Chameleon I am now able 
to pick up mail from my service provider (demon).

Apologies to anyone who has had uncollected mail "bounced".
-------------------------------------
Tony Chapman
HAWTEC                   Tel: +44 (0)1905 723200
Haswell House            Fax: +44 (0)1905 613338
Saint Nicholas Street    Mobile: 0973 316835
Worcester
WR1 1UW

E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk

Date: 08/15/95
Time: 17:54:07

This message was sent by Chameleon 
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 16:10:46 EST
Subject: Parts Prices in US :-)

All,

Pleasant surprise yesterday.  Needed to buy new taillight 
assembly for the Disco last night.  (Out of line-of-sight 
obstacle in metro DC parking garage, OUCH!!)  Mentally 
prepared for the worst, the dealer charged me *only* $59.68. 
 For the whole assembly!  Did he charge me his cost by 
mistake...or perhaps the price of just the bulb?  I didn't 
argue, and am considering getting other similar parts just 
to put on the shelf!

As a comparison, in 1980 I priced a replacement taillight 
assy for my 78 Toyota Celica.  Cost then was over $70!  And 
a replacement flimsy rubber trunk mat for the same car was 
over $300.  Items for my current (85) Toyota are similarly 
pricey.  Since buying the Series II 9 years ago, and adding 
the Disco 2 months ago, I remain satisfied that L-R parts 
are at least comparable, sometimes better, with respect to 
impact on the checkbook than the Japanese equipment I've 
driven during the same period.

Hank

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:46:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Lever mania!

Rob,

> I suspect that the rod and floorboards are not quite aligned, but I 
> haven't had time to tear it out again. I thought that it was supposed to 
> pop out of 4WD when you shifted: High-Neutral-Low-High. Mine pops out 
> when you shift: High-Neutral-Low.

    It is working correctly.

    With the red lever full forward (in high), pushing down the yellow
    lever engages 4WD.  Pulling the red lever back through neutral into
    low pops up the yellow lever (but obviously doesn't disengage 4WD,
    because 4WD is by definition engaged in low range.)  Then pushing
    the red lever forward again puts you back into high range 2WD.

    Yes, one could argue the newer vehicles have simplified this user
    interface, heh heh heh...

    It's fun to watch what the levers are actually doing sometime.  It
    can also come in handy when the pivot bolt for the yellow lever
    falls out or breaks off, and you need to get under there and
    manually throw it into 4WD high!  (The hell of it being that
    whenever you select low range, you need to repeat these under-truck
    gymnastics to return to high 4WD!)

    Duncan, who just left it in 4WD high for a couple of days because of
    that problem a couple of winters ago, and snapped an axle shaft in a
    cleared parking lot for his troubles...

------------------------------

Subject: I'm off to the Fringe in Edinburgh (a little later than I thought)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 19:18:55 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

As well as a SROC and Pen-9 RTV along the way...
then back to London to see if I still have a job,
and continuing on back to the states for a bit. 

I'll be working as crew on Ride FAR IV - supporting the 25 riders who will be
doing a century per day for five days, Sept. 6-10. All the money they raise
will go directly to Aids Resources  - 1/3 to the Children's Aids Project in
Boston, 1/3 to the NAMES Project (you know, the quilt people), and the
remaining third will be split amoungst Aids Resources that the riders select
in their home towns.  (Ok, I've come this far, so I'll continue and make
a shameless appeal: if you want to help out, then send your check made out
to 'Ride FAR 4' to:

	Ride FAR 4
	The Widget Factory
	Box 186
	Bolton, Ma, 01740

And be sure to let 'em know your a nutter who drives a land rover and a 
friend of Bills, (me that is).

If you happen to be in the Eastern Mass, Southern NH area, and would like to 
help the ride in some other way, then contact Suzy <sbecker104@aol.com> and
volunteer to help cook a meal for the riders or sponsor a water stop or 
whatever, or volunteer to help out some other local Aids Resource where ever
you are.

There is also a concert on Saturday Sept 8 at the 'me & thee' coffee house
in Marblehead,Ma, with Chris Smither and Dar Williams, some panels from the
quilt will be on display there also. (tickets $20/ea, contact Suzy
for more info)

Sept 6	Day 1	Concord, Ma	--> Storrs, Ct
Sept 7	Day 2	Storrs, CT	--> Fitchburg, Ma
Sept 8	Day 3	Fitchburg, Ma	--> Marblehead, Ma (Concert)
Sept 9	Day 4	Marblehead, Ma	--> Durham, NH
Sept 10	Day 5	Durham, NH	--> Concord, Ma

------
So if majordomo goes AWOL, then you're on you're  gonna be S.O.L.
(Figure I'm not going to do any list admin stuff 'til sometime after 13 Sept.)

Ciao,
 -Bill

------------------------------

From: Leland J Roys <roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Def-90 Steering
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 16:31:26 PDT

Re: Dunacan Brown

Hi Duncan, in response to your def-90 off road handing message.

I also have a 94 def-90, I did not experience the same bad steering problems
when in deep mud in utah, however, I was not completely impressed with its
handing either. It did seem like the front tires like to move around a lot,
(of course my off-road skills are not the best). One thing I did do was to
lower the tire pressure before going into the mud. The manual does say its
OK to lower the pressure before going off-road, the up it when on the 
pavement, this may make a difference.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 16:50:34 PDT
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: re: re: Yuppies (Longish)

>To: Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.com
>From: Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo)
..
>Given the high cost of dealer equipment, why even bother going to them?
>From: Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo)
It is usually engineered for the vehicle as opposed to just being made. 
Complex issue and very part specific.  For many components aftermarket 
sourcing makes a lot of sense.  Particularly ones LR is itself purchasing from
outside sources. 

>Owners of Series Land Rovers seem to do fine getting parts from the UK
>so why not skip the dealer and buy from UK aftermarket supplies?  You'll
>probably get better quality stuff, too.

A number of horror stories have also been posted on the net.  What
has been your experience obtaining LR parts?  Who would you recommend
dealing with?

>Also, getting custom-fabricated skid plates shouldn't cost much more
>than whatever Land Rover can provide.  This kind of engineering is
>within the capabilities of most metal shops.

I'm sure I'll eventually order from the UK and fabricate.  Just really
want to avoid those routes unless really necessary.  Specifically, don't
want to be if the local LR dealer or US 3rd party vendors can get the part
through LR if they are aware.  (Thanks to Rovers North who did spend
30 minute on the phone going through parts lists and specs with me on my
spring order.  2nd phone call though.  Guess it is all who you get on the
line and what type of mood they are in.)
   
>...lars (who may one day own a Land Rover 110 but is very happy with
>         his '91 Wrangler [4.0L, Lockright locker, 31x10.50 BFG M/Ts,
>         Warn 8274, *aftermarket* 2.5" spring lift <g>])

Stock D90s have as much or more clearance without a lift.  If I had wanted to
lift it life would have been much simpler.  ARB distributes the Old Man Emu
lift for the D90 in the the US.
>...lars (who may one day own a Land Rover 110 but is very happy with
I sold my '91 Wrangler after less than a year.  Very unhappy with it. 
Almost worthless off road.  Both my Cherokees were far better without lifts
then the Wrangler was even after one.  Brakes suck, no suspension travel,
peaky engine response off idle.  Abysmal on road.  Quality sucked too, clutch
broke, (not wore out), at 15k miles.   Same with 4 other friends.  Jeep said
it wasn't covered under warranty as it was wear type part.   (All true, not
an exageration or a flame attempt.  Just my experience.)  

Buy a Land Rover or Land-Rover.

LRNA is under no obligation to support aftermarket  or dealer installed
accessories.  I just find it very ironic that they do, but lean so very heavily
toward luxury items for the D90.  Particularly given its marketing and basic
design as a utility vehicle.  For Discos and RR's, the custom, LR labled, 
picnic baskets and lugage make a little more sense.  My dealer wouldn't exchange
that little leather gym bag thing for a bimini top no matter how hard I tried.
Still don't have any use for it.  On some mornings when I had to get up early
it even pisses me off a bit.  I'm truely sorry I ever dragged the Yuppies into
the topic however.

-Rick
>...lars (who may one day own a Land Rover 110 but is very happy with

Richard Larson
LSI Logic Corporation
(408) 433-7149

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 21:00:30 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Work weekend

Felix is history (maybe).  The work weekend at Penlan is on (definitely).
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: JCassidyiv@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 23:56:05 -0400
Subject: Range Rover Probs

Just a few questions for you about my 1987 RR;
1.)  Does anyone know of any after-market performance oriented parts for the
3.5L(except changing cams)?  Has anyone seen after-market performance intake
manifolds?
2.)  Front windshield wipers are making a loud clunk when they reach the far
left position of their arc.  The noise seems loudest on the driver's(left)
side.
3.)  Intermittent oil level warning light.  It comes on usually when the
vehicle is warm and parked slightly nose up.  The level is always at the high
end of the normal end on the stick.  Could it be a faulty sender?
4.)  Can someone re-iterate the common causes for front end clunking on the
RR?  I get a disconcerting "clunk" while cornering at moderate and above
speeds on the right front end.  The noise does no occur on flat pavement, but
only when the right front axle must articulate(eg, uneven road surface).
   Thanks for all your kind help!   John Cassidy   Bangor, Maine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 21:07:32 -0700
From: dnthomp@sos.sos.net (DENNIS & NONA THOMPSON)
Subject: Newbie w/Purchase/Info. Question

Excuse me if I'm not posting this up correctly, as I am new to the Net as 
well as the Rover List.  Have been an admirer of Land Rovers for years, but 
occupied with raising  my family.  Now that's done!!   I have been watching 
the dialogue on the net for some three weeks and trying to learned from your 
FAQ, etc.  I've been considering looking for a late 1960's (LWB?) S2?  
However, pricing sounds scarry and parts the same.  Still, I appreciate a 
well built vehicle that is repairable and durable.  My QUESTION is this:  
are any of you in the northwest Washington (state) area and is it possible 
to chat some about Rovers?  We live about one hour due south of Vancouver, 
B.C., where there is, it sounds, significant Rover activity.  I intend to 
watch the info as it comes across the mailing list and I still have a lot to 
learn............can't quite seem to get the darned things off my mind.
Thanks
Dennis
dnthomp@sos.net      (E-Mail ok also)

------------------------------

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	Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved. 

Digest Messages Copyright 1990-2011 by the original poster or/and
	Bill Caloccia,
	All rights reserved.