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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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1 Peter Aslan [paslan@uk.m99Clutch problem conclusion.
2 Peter Kutschera [peter@z23Re: Koenig WInch and OD
3 Peter Venters [venters@a23Re: Vacuum pumps on 2.25 diesels
4 Charlie Wright [cw117@mo12Re: Science V's Religion V's LRO's
5 Easton Trevor [TEASTON@D15Crashes and Impacts
6 Charlie Wright [cw117@mo28John liu? (seats)
7 Easton Trevor [TEASTON@D14Brake Squeal
8 Andrew Grafton [A.J.Graf76Re: Crash test dummies
9 Andrew Grafton [A.J.Graf19Buying an Overdrive
10 Richard Jones [rich@apri28Haynes Manual for RR
11 Easton Trevor [TEASTON@D7Group of LROs
12 Alan Clements [alan@slap25Re:A/C for Series Land Rovers
13 tklein@MZDMZA.ZDV.UNI-MA14Re: City cabs
14 gkleiman@gemgroup.com (G26Discovery Pricing
15 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em29Re: Crash test dummies
16 cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk38Shipping - clearing customs
17 "Tom Rowe" [TROWE@AE.AGE23 Re: Discovery Pricing
18 burns@lint.cisco.com (Ru53limmerk
19 Easton Trevor [TEASTON@D17DOWN EAST RALLY--HELP WITH PICS
20 Richard Jones [rich@apri43Haynes Manual for RR part 2
21 cs@crl.com (Michael Carr24Re: Buying an Overdrive
22 "TeriAnn Wakeman" [twak19Re: A/C for Series Land Rovers
23 a-robw@microsoft.com 31RE: Discovery Pricing
24 Biosource [0003479098@mc19Aluminum panel dent repair.
25 Andrew Grafton [A.J.Graf46Re : Crash Test Dummies
26 "thomas r. coron" [tcoro21Re: Independent Nation?
27 John Brabyn [brabyn@skiv18Re: High Speed Aerodynamics or EFI?? (D90/RR) - trivial questions
28 "John B. Friedman" [joha4K & N filter
29 "John B. Friedman" [joha11K & N Filter #2 and Swivel balls
30 John Brabyn [brabyn@skiv13Re: Discovery Pricing
31 lenagham@bachman.com 36Discovery Sightings.
32 "thomas r. coron" [tcoro16Re: Crashes and Impacts
33 kirkwood@strider.fm.inte119Re: Discovery Pricing (long)
34 Andrew Grafton [A.J.Graf18Paging John Liu!!
35 bfreeman@heartland.bradl22Hello again..
36 "thomas r. coron" [tcoro22Re: Independent Nation?
37 "Guzelis.Pete" [guzelis.47
38 JDolan2109@aol.com 12Address request
39 Lloyd Allison [lloyd@cs.37portal axle conversion
40 LANDROVER@delphi.com 30Re: Next question
41 LANDROVER@delphi.com 28Re: A/C for Series Land Rovers
42 LANDROVER@delphi.com 28Re: Limited slip not in a LR Series IIa.
43 Sekerere@aol.com 17Shopping in Africa
44 jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (43High Speed Aerodynamics or EFI?? (D90/RR) - trivial questions
45 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em15Re: High Speed Aerodynamics or EFI?? (D90/RR) - trivial questions
46 Steve Rochna [75347.452@18Down East Photos
47 johnliu@earthlink.net (J10WTB: Bench Seats
48 dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu28Science V's Religion V's LRO's
49 Aerostich/Andy Goldfine 26Land Rover Picnic Invitation
50 owner-lro-digest@uk.stra6 The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
51 mtalbot@InterServ.Com (M13Re: Wanted SIII
52 "David McKain" [MCKAIN@f20 BRLRC Meet
53 "TeriAnn Wakeman" [twak862 steps forwward, 1 step back
54 Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk 21RE: K & N Filter #2 and Swivel balls
55 "TeriAnn Wakeman" [twak14Rochester carb
56 Leland J Roys [roys@hpke40RE: Warn Winch mount
57 growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.S54Re: Independent Nation?
58 UncleBrad@aol.com 30Rover for sale
59 lenagham@bachman.com 14Re: K & N Filter #2 and Swivel balls
60 Jimi Patel [jimi@voyager33RR Brake Squeal - SCREEEECH
61 Benjamin Allan Smith [be20[not specified]
62 "Russell G. Dushin" [dus60Re: Clutch problem conclusion.
63 Leland J Roys [roys@hpke22Cost of new Def-90?
64 Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk 54Heated Screens & General Chat
65 Jimi Patel [jimi@voyager17Cooling ....
66 "TeriAnn Wakeman" [twak47Re: Clutch problem conclusion.
67 rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca26[not specified]
68 "Francis J. Twarog" [ftw35Defenders in the US future?
69 gwilcox@icis.on.ca (Gowy19See Ya fa now
70 LANDROVER@delphi.com 22Re: 5 speed etc...
71 "thomas r. coron" [tcoro5Re: Independent Nation?
72 jpappa01@InterServ.Com 36Re: D90 hesitation
73 "thomas r. coron" [tcoro40Re: Independent Nation?
74 rlarson@lsil.com (Rick L28Re: Defenders in the US future?
75 LANDROVER@delphi.com 28Re: I'm back !!!
76 LANDROVER@delphi.com 19Re: 5 speed etc...
77 LANDROVER@delphi.com 22Re: Clutch problem conclusion.
78 Russell U Wilson [ruwst+13RN or AB engine parts???
79 Roger Sinasohn [sinasohn19Re: Prices of Land Rovers in US
80 Roger Sinasohn [sinasohn25Re: tools/5-speeds/etc
81 Roger Sinasohn [sinasohn28Re: Next question... (Written in "Taylor-ease")
82 David John Place [umplac9Re: A/C for Series Land Rovers
83 a-robw@microsoft.com 25Another new Disco owner


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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:05:54 +0100 (BST)
From: Peter Aslan <paslan@uk.mdis.com>
Subject: Clutch problem conclusion.

You may recall my urgent call for help with a clutch slip problem, clutch 
slip getting progressively worse, the hotter the engine got, or the more 
it was used. BTW, this is a 1960 Mk2 Land Rover.

Well, I tried pulling the Gbox 5 inches back to get at the clutch, like 
it says in the manuals. Do Not Try this at home. I feel its a complete 
waste of time. You spend ages getting all the fiddly bits, like the hand 
break, propshafts exaust and all removed, its easier to just 
pull the box. Oh and if you do manage to get the box pulled back, like I 
eventually did, its blody hard getting at the bolts which hold the clutch 
cover to the flywheel, then you've got to release the lock tabs as well.

So I eventually hired a lift and pulled the box. Replaced the Cover, and 
the plate. A Local LR place quoted 54 Quid for a new friction plate, 
Cradocks didn't have one in stock, got one from Paddocks for about 19 Quid.

Saturday; new clutch everything went in, and I put the G'box back in.
Took all morning to get everything all hitched up and ready. First test 
showed that the clutch Pedal now went all the way to the floor, 

Engine showed that it wasn't disengaging. Turns out that, as I replaced 
the flexable hose, the slave cylinder had returned to the top of its travil,
and now wasn't activating the clutch properly, (This is Clue No 1 to the 
Original problem).

I removed the return Spring on the Slave Cylinder, the arm then drops 
down to take up all the slack in the system, (Clue No 2).

I re-attach the spring, the actuating arm doesn't move back up, and the 
clutch pedal now moves the clutch, disengaging it, but the pedal now stops 
half way down, ie doesn't hit the floor at all, (3 and Final Clue).

This whole thing got me thinking, the Slave cyliner wasn't going back to 
the top of its range of movement, it's starting point, the pedal was 
bottoming out premeturely because the slave piston had hit the end of
it's travil and was hitting the end circlip.

More diagnostic work required. I bled the Slave cylinder with return 
spring attached, it now returns to the top of its travil, and is re-set. 
Now sit in the driving seat and Pump the Clutch 60 Times, graduly the 
pedal gets harder and harder, and I notice the Slave cylinder push rod 
is no longer going back to its starting point, its like i'm pumping up 
the system, graduly pushing the Slave cylinder further and further out.

At this point I was a bit confused by words like, 'Self adjusting' in the 
manual, is it possible that this things working right, and Its self 
adjusting its self to take up the slack in the actuating mechenism.
'Bollocks it is', when the Clutch pedal is fully up, the whole hydrolic 
system should vent to the resovior, otherwise how could the system 
conpensate for tempeture, the thing gets hot, fluid expands and it will 
just push the slave cylinder out a bit.

I now decided that I'd done enough thinking and needed to start 
wrenching, I kept thinking, you'r not going to find the answer but just 
looking at it. I removed the inspection cover on top of the Clutch master 
cylinder adjuster, where the pedal piviots, interestingly enough, NO FREE 
PLAY. Boy is this thing fiddly, Its a bit like trying to put the Nylocks 
on the Bal joints, you turn the nut and the rod moves and theres nothing 
to hold to stop it turning. Anyhow, one pair of sniped nosed pliers later I 
managed to back the nuts off enough to get some free play in the master 
cylinder, and when I let go the master cylinder arm I noticed a sound from 
the clyinder that was the system venting itself as the Master Cylinder 
was now fully out, (hard to think of the right word here).

So, with this play in the master cylinder, the system now works fine, the 
slave cylinder now re-seats its self every time, no more 'pumping up' the 
system.

The problem I now have, is that there's so much slack in the links and 
stuff at the actuating arm attached to the slave cylinder, like beyond 
all feasable adjustment, that I'm going to have to fabricate some plates 
to move the cylinder down against the mechinism so it thrown the clutch 
out enough and at the right place.

As you depress the Clutch pedal there should be about an eighth of an 
inch free play, (this is the slack in the master cylinder), then about a 
quarter of an inch of less free play (in the Slave Mech), and the clutch 
should then start to disengage or seperate.

Thats it, God I feel better now I've figured this out. Now I can get back 
to the Harvest.

Regards,

  Peter Aslan (aka Captain Norton).           Louden Quill Award.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  McDonnell Information Systems               Voice: (01442) 273324
  Boundary Way                                Fax:   (01442) 256454
  Hemel Hempstead                             
  Hertfordshire HP2 7HU England               E-Mail: paslan@uk.mdis.com 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  The Opinions herein are my own and, unless explicitly stated, may not 
  represent thoes of McDonnell Information Systems Ltd.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:59:19 +0200
From: Peter Kutschera <peter@zditr1.arcs.ac.at>
Subject: Re: Koenig WInch and OD

JCassidyiv@aol.com wrote:

:) need another Series truck to put the winch on! :-)  Oh, if anyone has the PTO
:) version of the Koenig, how did you modify your exhaust pipe that comes off
:) the exhaust manifold!        Happy Rovering!   John Cassidy, Bangor, Maine
:) 1966 Series IIA Petrol

Well, in my 1968 109" SIIA Diesel the PO changed the exhaust. Don't know
how the new differs from the original. 
On the left border of http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/LR/gearbox/gearbox04.gif
you can see some pixels of the exhaust. 
Don't know anything about Petrol exhausts.

Peter

BTW: Where (in Europe) can I by an OD ?

----

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:08:37 +0000 (WET)
From: Peter Venters <venters@atm.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Vacuum pumps on 2.25 diesels

Alan Richer asks re mounting vacuum pumps and such like on the front of 
2.25 diesels...

A while back I had one such engine, obtained second-hand, supposedly from
a London taxi. I think it was, approximately, a 1984 engine - it had 5
main bearings and (largely) metric threads. It came with a diaphragm
vacuum pump mounted off a welded piece of bracketry which attached at the
top front left (ie same side as the exhaust) of the engine - can't recall
if it went into the block or the timing chain cover. The pump was belt
driven from a second pulley on the water pump. 

I never used the set-up, and gave it to a friend who then passed it 
on...this is most sad, as I could really do with it now, the list prices 
is quite funny, and I haven't come across a 2nd hand one.

Hope this is helpful. Best wishes,

Peter

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:00:54 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Science V's Religion V's LRO's

Daryl tactlessly asks:

>P.S. Charlie how are the Brakes ??

Arghhhhhhhhh. Whimper.

cw

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From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Crashes and Impacts
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 07:07:00 DST

In order to provide a suitable crumple zone for compliance with US specs the 
frame of the Discovery had to be weakened! The idea is, I guess to dissipate 
the energy in as many places as possible before it affects the passengers. 
As someone from SAAB said in response to questions about their vehicles 
safety, "Our cars are designed to sacrifice themselves in an accident to 
protect the passengers". The real answer to all these problems is not to hit 
things.

Trevor Easton 

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:05:33 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: John liu? (seats)

John, your "reply To:" seems to be a bogus address, so I'm posting to the 
net. Sorry folks.

=============
John, are you looking for the sideways facing rear seats?

I have a pair of old-fashioned (original 1960's equipment) with tatty
black vinyl covers.  I'm probably shipping them back to Houston with my
109 next week, but I may only use one of them.  If I only use one (and
you don't care if they are the modern and beautiful variety, you'd be
welcome to the other. I paid less than $100 for the pair, second hand,
over here.

they come apart, so you could replace the black vinyl with cloth.

Charlie

=============

C. R. Wright                                    Dept. of Genetics
+44 (0)1223 333970 telephone                    Univ. of Cambridge
+44 (0)1223 333992 telefax                      Downing Street, Cambs.
cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk                        CB2 3EH, England

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From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Brake Squeal
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 07:21:00 DST

In the dim distant past, when I worked for a Rolls Royce dealer we used to 
install graphite plugs into the leading edge of brake shoes as a 
cure/preventer of brake squeal. (God forbid that a Rolls Royce should 
squeal) . These were about 3/16 diameter and were put in a row about 1/2 in 
from the edge of the lining. Maybe you could use a soft clutch pencil lead 
to achieve the same result? Another thing for the list of must tries.

Trevor Easton and Miss "I squeal for animals" Golightly

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From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Crash test dummies
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:16:58 BST

> Re side impact in a LR.

This confused me a little as I don't quite follow the 
reasoning... 

>> I have always feared wearing my seat belt in my 88 because the tie down 
 point for the factory belt on the front seats are on the outer body 
 area.  If you are hit from the side and the body is crushed, you will be 
 cut in two by the belt being pulled tight over your chest and legs.<<

The top tie down point can either be the so-called 'B' pillar (vertical
pillar behind the driver's shoulder) or the outside end of the bulkhead
support that runs behind the front seats on a pickup/commercial machine.
The bottom support is attached to the door sill.

In a crash, either support would undoubtedly move sideways (as would you)
into the vehicle so I'm with you so far.  The seatbelt clip/buckle 
pokes up between the outer and middle seats and might or might not move 
sideways.  Assume the worst case where you and the door sill 
move into the car and the buckle and B pillar stay still.  
If the sill moves in significantly then the door/seatbox will be pushed in
and you will also be pushed into the car.  Given that the belt is a 
fixed length I can't see it tightening by a lot more than six inches 
around you, which will not cause you any significant injury. 

Have I missed the point?  Sorry if so, but I've tried to see what
you are getting at and can't quite get my head around it.

>> I try to drive with the belt off as much as possible and only if I am doing 
 off road stuff with no other vehicles likely to hit me from the side will 
 I wear my belt. The problem with the LR series vehicles for mounting the 
 belts is that the fram is too far inboard of the side panels to tie the 
 belt to the frame so you are stuck with this dangerous situation of 
 tieing it to the door sill. Dave VE4PN <<

Er...

Seatbelts are designed as frontal impact protection for the 
occupant and to prevent ejection in the event of a rollover. 
Their effect in a side impact (even if it is on the other
side of the the car from you) is small or occasionally detrimental.
Detrimental effects occur when the torso slips out from behind the belt 
whilst the pelvis is restrained by the lap strap.  

Considering that in 1991 (the only data I have), 60% of all reported
crashes were frontal impacts I'd be tempted to wear my seatbelt whatever
the risk from side impact.  The other 40% of crashes were about 20% rear,
15% frontal and 5% 'other'.

Even a Lucas seatbelt results in reported reduction in fatalities
of 37% when compared to statistics for unbelted occupants.  That's
assuming a Lucas seatbelt is the worst available :-(

The reduction in injury levels due to belt-wearing is far more
startling but harder to show in figures.

What I am trying to say here is that I see a lot of car crashes
of all sorts and the best way by *far* of reducing injuries and 
fatalities to to wear a seatbelt, even a crappy old one.  For
a vehicle as occupant-unfriendly as a LR it becomes especially
important.

Sorry about the paranoia.  It just seems such a small effort
to make to improve your chances of living through a serious 
collision.

All the best,

Andy
A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk

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From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Buying an Overdrive
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:21:48 BST

[snip]
> Peter
> BTW: Where (in Europe) can I by an OD ?

How about the UK?  I can give you a few numbers to call/fax if you
want...
Ooops, sorry - silly me.  The Uk isn't _really_ Europe, is it!?
 :-)

All the best,

Andy
A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk

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From: Richard Jones <rich@apricot.co.uk>
Subject: Haynes Manual for RR
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:02:28 +0100 (BST)

Ken Berliner writes:
> I have a question about the 89 RR engine.  According to the Haynes Manual,
> LR didn't put the 3.95 L V8 into RR's until the 1990 model. 

The North American spec Range Rover had the 3.9 engine several months before the UK
did.  I would expect the Haynes manual to refer the the UK vehicle for dates and
changes to spec.

I also understand that the 3.95 L V8 is actually a Buick engine.  Anyone
know which one it is?

The Rover Company bought the manufacturing and development rights to an obsolete Buick
3.5 litre V8 in 1964 from General Motors (I believe the engine was dropped by Buick
around about 1956 but could easily be wrong here).  Rover then spent 3 years refining
the engine intially for the P5B and later Range Rover before it into production in
1967.
__ 
  _ __              Apricot Computer Limited
 ' )  )      /      3500 Parkside                 Tel:   (+44) 121 717 7171
  /--' o _. /_      Birmingham Business Park      Fax:   (+44) 121 717 0123
 /  <_<_(__/ <_     BIRMINGHAM  B37 7YS
 Richard Jones      United Kingdom                Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk 

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From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Group of LROs
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 07:46:00 DST

Could this be a  Clique of LROs (C-Leak)

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:23:39 GMT
From: Alan Clements <alan@slaphead.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re:A/C for Series Land Rovers

>On the subject of Cooling

>....Mounted on the rear Passenger door windows was some sort of air conditioner

Roger,

I have just been sent one of those Junk mail trade catalogues with ehat appears 
to be the device you have mentioned.  It is called 'CAR VENTILATOR', (what else 
??), and is offered for 39.95.  It is solar powered, but also comes with a 
cigar lighter adaptor for recharging.

Unfortunatly I have lost the cover off the catalogue, but can get you full 
details of the supplier if you are interested.

Slaphead
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Alan Clements    EMail Alan@Slaphead.demon.co.uk                        |
| You shouldn't have joined if you couldn't take a joke !  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:10:08 +0100
From: tklein@MZDMZA.ZDV.UNI-MAINZ.DE
Subject: Re: City cabs

Hello all, 

There was one in Billing on the LRO weekend. Inside it was only a normal 101.
At the second day it was a little bit dirty, the fouls must use it off 
road (the plastic on the rims was damaged)

						Bye, Thorsten

P.S: The weekend was great only the campingsite was terrible.

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:22:33 -0400
From: gkleiman@gemgroup.com (Gary D. Kleiman)
Subject: Discovery Pricing

I am considering the purchase of a 95 Discovery and have visited one local 
dealer to test drive.  The dealer had several on-hand and available for 
immediate delivery.   I was disappointed that the proposal was "full 
sticker".  Considering that the model year is up in a few months and that 
the supply/demand relationship seems to be in balance, should I expect all 
dealers to be demanding full sticker?  Does anyone know about the 96 model 
and what changes are expected including price increases?  Has anyone been 
successful in negotiating a substantial discount from sticker or found an 
aggressive leasing deal which offsets the higher price?  
Since I am happy with my 88 RR, I see no reason to rush a decision without 
some research.

Thanks, Gary Kleiman (gkleiman@gemgroup.com)
Sent by:
Gary D. Kleiman
President
The Gemstone Group, Inc.
801 The Safeguard Building
435 Devon Park Drive
Wayne, PA 19087
610-971-9500 Fax: 610-971-1770

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:54:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Crash test dummies

On Mon, 24 Jul 1995, Andrew Grafton wrote:

> Sorry about the paranoia.  It just seems such a small effort
> to make to improve your chances of living through a serious 
> collision.

	Just some seatbelt trivia...

	If you desire your Land Rover to be "original" and thus not have
	seatbelts, yet you desire the ewxtra safety of seatbelts, you can
	obviously install them.  However, Canadian legislation precludes
	you from ever removing them once installed.  

	The International Rally Federation(?) requires seatbelts on all vehicles
	that partake in events under their influence/jurisdiction with one
	exception.  That would be Series Land Rovers that never had seatbelts
	installed.  The rationale is that adding seatbelts to a Series 
	Land Rover (I through IIA, & maybe very early III) is not safe since
	the Land Rover lacks all of the proper reinforcement and anchor points
	to do it correctly.  Once OVLR member has all of the exemption papers
	from the rally federation exempting his Series I from requiring 
	seatbelts. 

	Rgds,

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:10:27 +0100
From: cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk (Charlie Wright)
Subject: Shipping - clearing customs

OK list, it's crunch time. The final week and I'm preparing to deal with
shipping and paperwork to bring my '66 109 back to the U.S.

I've got quotes, letters from the EPA, and all my receipts and registration
documents ready.

So far, so good.

However, the shippers want to sell me the services of an 'agent' to handle
customs and taxes and the like.  Best I can tell, they will charge me $250
to help me pay my taxes?

Am I being unfair?

Has anyone who has done this had experience with these details? Do I need
an agent if my paperwork is in order and my vehicle is running?  Will I be
sitting on the dock for hours and haggling with customs officials and
regretting not having an agent? Is it worth the $250?

Should I ignore them and handle my own business? I don't like to pay people
to do things I could do myself, otherwise I'd have electronic fuel
injection and use a mechanic... but I digress.

Any contributions gratefully received, especially from shippers or those
who've done this.

Cheers,
Charlie

C. R. Wright                                    Dept. of Genetics
+44 (0)1223 333970 telephone                    Univ. of Cambridge
+44 (0)1223 333992 telefax                      Downing Street, Cambs.
cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk                        CB2 3EH, England

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From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:19:57 GMT -0600
Subject:       Re: Discovery Pricing

Gary,

> successful in negotiating a substantial discount from sticker or found an 
> aggressive leasing deal which offsets the higher price?  
Can't offer help on the negotiating, but unless you can't afford the 
payments or don't plan to keep it long, I think there is *no way* you 
can come out ahead on leasing. I have yet to see a lease that comes 
close to outright purchase, even with high interest payments.
Tom

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:22:54 -0700
From: burns@lint.cisco.com (Russell burns)
Subject: limmerk

We blame it all on a truck called Land Rover,
and our sanity is in doubt all over
but if the trail leads there, we'll depart with out a care
looking for that next green bed of clover.
The dust may be thick, and the trail a bit of a trick
but our rovers are dears, overcoming all fear 
and we always come through with the beer.

While our interests may be diverse 
and a few of us stuck in reverse
we'll put it all aside for the joy of a ride 
through some thick peverse mud slide.
At night we may regress
 drink beer, and cuss with the best
 and we while we might be rude, insulting, and crass,
You can laugh at our looks and belittle our class,
but if you insult land rovers remember this lass 
we'll explain nicely to shove it up your.

. The motor may sputter and the brakes may be weak, 
 in the winter we may shudder and our transfers case leaks ,
 our paint may be faded , our seats fairly worn, but if the
trail is rocky , and  the out come unknown, we share in the
confidence of our land rovers ability to roam.
  
The frame may be cracked the wipers may not work , 
one light may be dim,  the wind screen covered with murk
The money may be slim and the Lucas ABS out of whack,
 but we can all be assured in  landrover we'll get back.

Some rovers are old, and come equipped with some mold.
Some rover are new, and are afraid of the dew
A few rovers are fast, and all are  built to last.
but it is the mystique that is ours and hold us all fast.

Our neighbors may laugh at our follies, and that's fair
Just so long as they keep out of our hair. To them a 
land rover is just a plan car, the world has past by
like a fallen star. To us its alive, proof to the task.
that regardless of the  challenge the land rover will surpass
 

Russ
It aint quite all there yet....

cc
Russ Burns________________________________________________________________
CiscoSystems

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From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: DOWN EAST RALLY--HELP WITH PICS
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 11:30:00 DST

URGENTLY NEEDED- Good Pictures from the Down East Rally
EXCUSE MY SHOUTING
If you have good colour pics of the Down East Rally please contact Myles 
Murphy at (207) 789 5303
He needs to get some good shots to Land Rover World in the next couple of 
days to meet their printing deadline.
Photos will be credited to the photographer
Good shots from the off road day would be especially appreciated.

Thanks
Trevor easton

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From: Richard Jones <rich@apricot.co.uk>
Subject: Haynes Manual for RR part 2
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:21:51 +0100 (BST)

Ken Berliner writes:
> Do I have the viscous coupling transfer case?

Does you high-low transfer lever (the short one) have a grid on it, something list the
very crude diagram below:

  +---High--+
  |         |
  +-Netral--+
  |         |
  +---Low---+  
  
Or:

     High
       |
     Neutral
       |   
      Low

Appologies if the high and low should be reversed.

If it is is of the first type (you should also have a big orange warning light to one side
of 
the radio with a drive train symbole on it - this is the pre viscous (manual) type.

If its the second type you have a viscous one.

NB in the UK the viscous transfer box came in with the 3.5 litre engine, so all 3.9's are
viscous, would suspect that the viscous box cam in with the 3.9 litre for North America,
but this is just a guess.
__ 
  _ __              Apricot Computer Limited
 ' )  )      /      3500 Parkside                 Tel:   (+44) 121 717 7171
  /--' o _. /_      Birmingham Business Park      Fax:   (+44) 121 717 0123
 /  <_<_(__/ <_     BIRMINGHAM  B37 7YS
 Richard Jones      United Kingdom                Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk 

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:38:31 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Buying an Overdrive

>> BTW: Where (in Europe) can I by an OD ?

 First off, I'd only buy Bearmach.  Their oil capacity is larger
 and they don't tend to burn out like Faireys.  Bearmach suppliers
 will sell direct, so look for their add in LRO (back cover?).  The
 only one (out of 5 in the UK) listed with a fax is in Cardiff:
         Bearmach PLC           tel 01222-341313
         Maindy Road            fax 01222-383933 
         Cardiff
         S. Glam
         CF2 4XN

 Tread Lightly!

 Michael Carradine   Carradine Studios                          cs@crl.com
 Architect           Architecture Development Planning    Pgr 510-945-5000
 NCARB RIBA          PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA   Ph/Fax 510-988-0900

 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 08:42:46 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: A/C for Series Land Rovers

In message <199507220336.UAA06023@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>  writes:
> On the subject of cooling...  

> (Here's the cooling part)  Mounted on the rear passenger door window was a 
> *very* interesting device.  It was some sort of air-conditioner (or sorts).  
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
>     /     \
> Device   Window rolled up on it to hold it in place.

Roger, this sure looks like the old car window mounted ecvaporative cooler to 
me.  You load some water inside, car moves evaporating water, cooler air flows 
in.  Its one of those neat adaptions that died young when air conditioners 
became standard equipment in most cars.  Though I did see someone trying to sell
an updated version at the fair a few years back.

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From: a-robw@microsoft.com
Subject: RE: Discovery Pricing
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 09:02:00 PDT

Gary Kleiman (gkleiman@gemgroup.com) wrote:

I was disappointed that the proposal was "full sticker".  Considering that 
the model year is up in a few months and that the supply/demand relationship 
seems to be in balance, should I expect all
dealers to be demanding full sticker?
 -----

When I visited the dealer and tried some minor haggling on the Discovery, 
the response was essentially: "This is Land Rover, This is the price. 
Period" They didn't seem to concerned about moving their inventory. Of 
course, this is the heart (if not capitol) of "yuppie-land" so the SUV's are 
pretty hot properties of any brand name. (e.g. Isuzu, Cherokee, Explorer, 
etc) so it may vary by location.

What I thought was funny was that even though I got the Beluga Black (with 
the $300 factory clear coat) they still tried to sell me the aftermarket 
clear coat and the undercoating. If you look underneath, it comes with that 
waxy stuff all under it. (is there a technical term for that compound?) My 
response was "why do I need that?" The unspoken answer was, I suspect, "so 
we, the dealer, can make even more money!" Can't fault them for trying.

 -- Bob Watson
a-robw@microsoft.com
just moments away from my Discovery!

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 11:13 EST
From: Biosource <0003479098@mcimail.com>
Subject: Aluminum panel dent repair.

Can anyone recommend techniques for minor dent repair for aluminum body panels 
on a Range Rover?  I have a small one inch dimple on the door panel.  There is a
company here in the SF bay area that uses vacuum to suck out dents, but, others 
have told me that aluminum tends to stretch and you canUt do good repairs short 
of replacing the entire panel!

Regards,

Guy della-Cioppa
Vacaville, California
90 Range Rover (Beluga Black, of course)
707-446-8461
Biosource@mcimail.com
Guy_dell@aol.com

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From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : Crash Test Dummies
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 17:35:03 BST

	>>obviously install them.  However, Canadian legislation precludes
	you from ever removing them once installed.<<  

That is really odd!  One of those rules that makes me wonder
*why*...

	>> That would be Series Land Rovers that never had seatbelts
	installed.  The rationale is that adding seatbelts to a Series 
	Land Rover (I through IIA, & maybe very early III) is not safe since
	the Land Rover lacks all of the proper reinforcement and anchor points
	to do it correctly. <<

I would be a little suspect about this (the rationale behind it, not
the fact that the rule exists) because the seatbelts and seatbelt 
mountings fitted to SIII's in the factory are approved to British
Standard ...er... something or other ?1965 which is quite stringent 
and ensures that the mounting points are more than adequate for the
job.

I have just had a look at our '83 SIII and a SIIA and the mounting
points are clearly a retrofit by Rover with no apparent modification
to the basic vehicle structure (except for a few brackets which could
be easily fitted by anyone capable of wielding a spanner).

Having said that, the mounting points are positioned badly so the
belt will not be as effective as it could be.  The sliding seat
arrangement is also rather useless as the occupant will tend to
submarine under the lap strap.

If you were to stack a car with inadequate mountings then a lot of 
energy would be absorbed ripping the mountings from the super- 
structure.  You would hit the fascia/wheel with that much less 
energy and undoubtedly be better off, even though the seatbelt
had failed to achieve its primary aim (avoiding contact in the 
first place).

Just wittering,

Andy
A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk

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From: "thomas r. coron" <tcoron@s850.mwc.edu>
Subject: Re: Independent Nation?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:46:34 EDT

>  Thomas,
>  Your message was clipped by the Major, and I can't wait for you to
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)]
>  NCARB RIBA          PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA   Ph/Fax 510-988-0900
>  Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html
  Michael - I forgot about the Major clipping the last line. You've prob
	    ably seen it in Dixon's response, but in case you haven't
	    it's" considered to be the 51st state". As in "not really a
            foreign country" :-)

Tom Coron         tcoron@s850.mwc.edu
King George,Va.   703-775-4575
'66' IIA 88 RHD
   
      

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:00:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: High Speed Aerodynamics or EFI?? (D90/RR) - trivial questions

On Sun, 23 Jul 1995, Jeremy Bartlett wrote:

> On my D90 (US version) I've noticed that when my speedometer gets into 
> the 85-90mph range (actual speed 80-85mph) the vehicle occasionally 
> experiences intermittent, but irregular, mild "hesitation". 

I believe the D90 has an electronic ignition cutout at 85 mph to limit 
top speed, so this is probably what you are observing. 

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 11:55:05 -0500
From: "John B. Friedman" <johannes@scribes.english.uiuc.edu>
Subject: K & N filter

------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 11:57:11 -0500
From: "John B. Friedman" <johannes@scribes.english.uiuc.edu>
Subject: K & N Filter #2 and Swivel balls

Does any one have a source for the K & N reusable air filter for 3.9  
engine. Or have K&N address in CA. I know they don't list a phone. 

Any secrets for happy and shiny swivel balls? Do they getenough  
lubrication fron inside or would grease on them help to keep  
corroosion off? Thanks, John B. Friedman

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:05:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Discovery Pricing

I saw an article in USA Today recently ststing that the market is starting 
toget glutted with sport utilities and even the Discovery is now selling 
at a discount. So, if I was buying one I'd rather not pay sticker -- just 
wait a while and they'll come around!

For what it's worth

John Brabyn

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 13:20:09 EST
From: lenagham@bachman.com
Subject: Discovery Sightings.

     Last Friday I drove from Southern New Hampshire to visit friends in 
     New Jersey (approx 260 miles). As usual I kept an eye open for other 
     Rovers. Travelling through New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, 
     New York and New Jersey I have to admit that I see more Range Rovers 
     in New York state than anything else.
     
     I remembered that the other times I have driven this route over the 
     last 12 months, I have always seen a Discovery coming in the opposite 
     direction while crossing the Tappan Zee bridge. In fact I saw my very 
     first "on the road U.S." Discovery crossing this bridge.
     
     So here I am approaching the bridge at 8 p.m. on Friday in my Range 
     Rover. I tell the kids that if they watch the traffic coming in the 
     opposite direction they will see a Discovery on the bridge. Sure 
     enough 2/3 of the way across (the Hudson is a wide river) a red 
     Discovery shows up. How did you know yelled the kids ? - they actually 
     thought I'd set it up!!
     
     The return journey was yesterday - we reached the south end of the 
     bridge at about 1 p.m. and of course I had to issue the same 
     challenge. Luckily the traffic was heavy heading North and was stop 
     and go, giving more time for sighting southbound vehicles. With only 
     about 100 yards to go to the end of the bridge, what should we see 
     coming towards us but a green Discovery ! How did I set this one up?
     
     So, if you were the driver of the Red Dicovery on Friday night or the 
     green Discovery on Sunday afternoon - Thank You, my kids think I'm a 
     magician.
     
     Mike Lenaghan
     87 Range Rover

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From: "thomas r. coron" <tcoron@s850.mwc.edu>
Subject: Re: Crashes and Impacts
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 13:36:01 EDT

> In order to provide a suitable crumple zone for compliance with US specs the 
> frame of the Discovery had to be weakened! The idea is, I guess to dissipate 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> protect the passengers". The real answer to all these problems is not to hit 
> things.
  Sometimes things hit you...;-).

Tom Coron         tcoron@s850.mwc.edu
King George,Va.   703-775-4575
'66' IIA 88 RHD          

------------------------------
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From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:38:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Discovery Pricing (long)

Below, please see my experience buying a Disco. This was back about 3 months
or so. I would expect that they should be somewhat more amenable to dickering
towards the end of the model year. Good luck!!!

On Jul 24,  9:22am, Gary D. Kleiman wrote:
> Subject: Discovery Pricing
> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)]
> 610-971-9500 Fax: 610-971-1770
>-- End of excerpt from Gary D. Kleiman

Well, I'd like to buy beers all around, but given the distances and the
number of takers, I think I will pass. The reason for this is the recent
arrival of a 95 Disco into the household. Thanks to the many who have offered
advise and input recently, I finally did something that Taylor (bless his
soul) just never got around to. (Taylor, if you are still lurking around out
there, I understand your desire but also your nervousness).

We went in around 11 am Saturday to the local dealership prepared to dicker
for a while. Had all sorts of tactics designed which quickly went by the
wayside. Darn, even the baby didn't apply pressure by squalling. The local
dealership which also sells Caddys recently moved to having some
"specialists" for LR products. (Actually, I think they recognized us, and
either figured to send in the "big gun" for the kill, or else nobody else
wanted us). We spent about 2 hours getting the sales job and talking about
various options (we went in wanting Epsom Green and fully loaded; we left
with white and mostly loaded. Although we loved the green, the guy pointed
out the visibility of dust and spots on the green, not so on the white,
discussed the durability of the white paint versus the softer metallic
clearcoat, and the temperature difference of the metal).

We finally sat down and started the process. I knew what the invoice prices
were and indicated so. He promptly indicated they didn't drop below retail
because they didn't need to: they usually had a waiting list and the product
moved. Hard to verify this. I said ok, but this is my offer: about 33000.
(The vehicle  in question had sunroofs, jump seats, leather, rear air and
auto). They're sticker price (w/o dealer markup but with dest. fees) was
37225, and the invoice price was about 32000 or so. They came back with an
"offer" of 36650 and  three accessories which we wanted (trailer hitch,
wiring harness, and rubber mats). But this was for any other car except the
fully loaded white which had had running boards, heavy brush bar, rear light
guards and wheel cover already added (they didn't want to spend even more
money taking off what they had just put on 2 days before). Well, except for
the guards this was what we really wanted anyway. So, we came back with 36000
for the white car with all of those things plus the original three acc.'s.
(at this point, we had "knocked off" about 3900 off of the "retail" price).

At this point, we had been there about 5.5 hours. They came back with 39,900
+ license, tax, or about 43600. We went back with 38000 out the door. They
came back with 41432 and "thank-you very much for showing your interest"
written on the offer. They thought they had laid down the gauntlet and  I
would crumple. (6 hours). I got up and said I was already well over what I
wanted to spend, I understood they couldn't go any lower and that this was
their bottom offer (although desperately wanting the car, I was basically
ready to walk). We started for the door. Interesting, the salesman was
sputtering and hemmed and hawed muttering about still might be able to do
something, and it wasn't necessarily the final offer. I told him I knew that
was as low as they could go, thanks very much, we'll be going now (boy did I
want that car!!!). My impression was that they really thought I would realize
defeat and weren't expecting me to leave. I finally told him that although
there was nothing else that could be done on either side I would talk to his
sales manager, and "sorry we couldn't come to agreement". The sales manager
took me into his office (  I thought I was going to the grade school
principal's office!!) We were still about 3500 apart. I finally said I would
offer 39000 tops. He came down 1000 to 40432. Well I broke I told him 40000
and no more, and please don't let 432 dollars get between letting a deal go
through. He said already he was lower than he'd ever gone with anyone else
before. (yeah, yeah). Even the owner hadn't cut his friends a deal better
than 100 dollars off. He would have to get approval on this one. (He was a
nice young guy, the owner's son, and seemed genuine. Hard to say). I said ok
fine $40,100 and accept it or I'm out the door. I left, a few minutes later,
presumably after a phone call, he called me in and we had agreed on 40,100
out the door.

As I compute things, their out-the-door price would have been (for the
equipment we got): 37225 + 2700 (acc) + 2894 (tax 7.25%) + ~800 (license) =
$43,619. We "saved" $3519 or about the cost of all the license and
accessories.

item	dealer	actual	savings
base	37225	36635	590
acc.'s	2700	0	2700
				total vehicle savings: $3290 or about 8%
tax	2894	2658	236
lic	800	771	29
docs	35	35	0

All in all, we were 5.8% over approx. invoice to dealer and 8.25% under
dealer asking price. If in fact these vehicles are going generally at dealer
asking with no discounts due to high demand/low supply, then I *think* we did
pretty good. I went in wanting to only pay about $36,000 without acc's or
with acc's about $38000. We spent about 2000 more than we wanted (but I think
worth it, because *we* got the car), and they got $3500 less than their
asking.

So far we have sucked a tank of gas down already and gone about 400 miles
(the vehicle had 23 leaving the lot). The radio has the "standard" buzz on
start up, thank-you Lucas. (actually pioneer did the radio, but probably
under the direction of uncle Joe :'} ).  The left outside mirror is warped,
the steering seems to be tight but oversteers: we weave ( I think this is due
to having all four wheels pulling), and so far everything works!!! Haven't
spotted any leaks yet and we are happy. Haven't broken into the marmalade,
biscuits, tea, etc. But the "cookie" had ants all over it. We are waiting to
have the hitch stuff arrive. (They have to remove the CD player: we didn't
get it at 1000 when the salesman indicated we can get the equivalent pioneer
at Circuit City or its ilk for around 550). The kids love sitting in the jump
seats especially over bumps and around corners. The baby cries and goos so I
don't know what she feels really.

Well, that about wraps it up. Hope this helps other potential buyers!!!!

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

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From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Paging John Liu!!
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 18:38:44 BST

Hiya!

I am trying to email John and I cannot get through as the
thing is bouncing 'unknown address' to me when it tries 
earthlink...

Any hints.  John?  Anyone else?

All the best,

Andy
A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:56:46 CDT
From: bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman)
Subject: Hello again..

Hi all it's been several months since I was last on line, I've
since sold my 88 S3 and Purchased a 81 RR 2 door.
Just thought I'd rub shoulders with my fellow RR owners..:) So
what kind of goodies areout there for my new addition? I'd like to
first freshen up the interior. So any help would be great.
So all you out there Happy Rovering...:)
Sincerely,
Mr. & Mrs. Benajmin J. Freeman
13739-Linden Ave. N. #C-102
Seattle,  WA  98133
'81-RR 2 door

--
Land Rover Owner in Seattle.....Wants' a RHD 110 :) It's a dream
you know..:)
        I'm a Land Rover Lover you know..:)
                               I love my Janice Bunny..:)

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From: "thomas r. coron" <tcoron@s850.mwc.edu>
Subject: Re: Independent Nation?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:02:12 EDT

> On Fri, 21 Jul 1995, thomas r. coron wrote:

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)]
> 	:-)
> 	Rgds from the tundra,
    You wouln't want to be part of us , or vice-versa. You don't need
    our handgun murder rate, $500/month (at least) medical insurance,
    population explosion, etc. 
    I like Canada just the way it is, a great mplace to get away from
    heat, humidity, crowds, etc. I especially enjoy the Canadian Shield
    portion. Enjoyed many canoe trips in Quetico Park and on the
    Romaine River in Quebec. Yoy can keep your black flies however.

Tom Coron         tcoron@s850.mwc.edu
King George,Va.   703-775-4575
'66' IIA 88 RHD

------------------------------
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Date: 24 Jul 1995 11:24:15 U
From: "Guzelis.Pete" <guzelis.pete@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject:  

David Brown asks about receiver mounts and prices. I have been looking into a
winch for my Disco and found out that Warn makes a front winch mounting frame
(cradle) that is "Portable" and thus can be used on either end of the vehicle.
A local 4 X 4 dealer here in Huntington Beach, Ca.reconmmended a 8K Ramsey
winch, rather than Warn. Little cheaper and supposedly better gears. According
to the Warn factory (1-800-543-WARN) the "Multi-Mount Winch Frame (Part No.
#26370) sells for $175 US - retail - should be able to get some discount off
this price. I haven't done so myself as I am not ready to buy quite yet. Nasty
things like bills stopping me. Good luck.   
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.com on Mon, Jul 24, 1995 2:10 AM
Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Land-Rover-Owner List &  Land Rover Owner Daily Digest List

Send submissions to the list to:	lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net

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Majordomo can also respond to other commands, send text:	help

	  Contents:
  1 JDolan2109@aol.com Sun Jul 23 07:32   20/1032  Address request
  2 lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au Sun Jul 23 08:35   47/2321  portal axle conversion
  3 LANDROVER@delphi.com Sun Jul 23 09:06   44/1972  Re: Next question
  4 LANDROVER@delphi.com Sun Jul 23 09:06   42/1994  Re: A/C for Series Land R
  5 LANDROVER@delphi.com Sun Jul 23 09:13   43/2123  Re: Limited slip not in a
  6 Sekerere@aol.com   Sun Jul 23 14:41   24/1491  Shopping in Africa
  7 jjbpears@ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 23 15:41   53/2686  High Speed Aerodynamics
o
  8 dkenner@emr1.emr.ca Sun Jul 23 16:19   31/1301  Re: High Speed Aerodynami
  9 75347.452@compuserve.com Sun Jul 23 19:05   27/1013  Down East Photos
 10 johnliu@earthlink.net Sun Jul 23 23:01   22/1232  WTB: Bench Seats
 11 dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au Mon Jul 24 00:17   45/1991  Science V's
Religion V's 
 12 74544.323@compuserve.com Mon Jul 24 00:34   37/1980  Land Rover Picnic
Invitat

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From: JDolan2109@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 08:32:44 -0400
Subject: Address request

Does anyone have postal/voice/fax addresses for Mike Smith at East Coast
Rovers in Maine? If so could you please e-mail them to me (direct is fine).
TIA
See 'ya on the old road...
Jim  '61 88" SW / OD, 1 Bbl weber & 16's   (econobox?)
LR....quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised! 

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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 23:34:12 +1000
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: portal axle conversion

Does anyone know the address of the company that makes the
Portal-Axle conversion for Land-Rovers?
There was a pic' of a 110 in LROI recently, and I've seen another
pic' somewhere else a few years back.
(Looks impressive, 9.00x16 tyres too, need a ladder.)
They also do 3-point linkage and various PTO options as I recall.

Diff locks - I have a *little* info' in ...tildeLand-Rover/Axles/index.html
I don't know if (or where) maxi-drive are still going.  They had the strongest
kit a while ago.  Allegedly the army tested them by doing figures of eight for
an hour or so. The tyres didn't like it!
   There is a "cheap option", a (?McNamara?) diff' lock:
the diff has a modified spider with a spline through it.
A longer half-shaft can be wound in/out by a nut on the hub,
so as to engage the spline.  It involves getting out of the vehicle.
Rear only obviously.

The portable petrol-driven winch always seemed a great idea to me -
can be fitted front or aft and even tied to a tree.
However, the unit didn't look very heavy duty, although
I don't actually know its rating.

The concensus on my "aerodynamic feature" is that many Rovers can have
it - series with sharp or rounded bonnets and maybe a RR!
But I've had a S2A with a sharp bonnet and driven one with a rounded
bonnet and they never threw water at me - weird. It must be
some random feature of individual vehicles.

LSD: A friend's S2A SW had an LSDiff - but I'm not sure if it was factory
fitted or added later (it wasn't much use after a little wear!).

Lloyd

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 10:04:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Next question

Trevor asks...

> Does anyone know of a self contained portable winch with an IC engine? 
> Something like a chain saw with wire instead of a chain. This could be a 
> valuable recovery tool attachable between and two objects that need to be 
> pulled together.

This info may be a bit out of date.. June 1989 issue of "Peterson's 4 wheel
and Off Road" magazine had a list of various winches. They show a self
contained unit called the "Helper Winch" Looks like a winch with a chain saw
mounted on the back! Supposed to be 8000 lb pull. No price shown. 
Helper Winch
410 S Main St
PO Box 968
Torrington, WY 82240
(307) 532-7622

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (On the Road!)      
              7          1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern")
           #:-}>         1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts)

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 10:04:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: A/C for Series Land Rovers

Uncle Roger describes a device....

> *very* interesting device.  It was some sort of air-conditioner (or
sorts).  
> It was basically a tube about 8" or so in diameter and maybe 1.5' long,
with a> 
> part that went through the window.  So looking head on from the front, it 
> looked like this:

Someone was asking about this type of device a while back if I recall.. I
think that they were built in the 1930's (maybe 40's?) and used ice as part
of the cooling. The air coming in drove a fan which in turn drove a blower
to circulate air around an ice chamber. This was all described to me
second hand... Don't have any idea how long the ice lasted.

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (On the Road!)      
              7          1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern")
           #:-}>         1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts)

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 10:04:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Limited slip not in a LR Series IIa.

David Brown asks about winch prices...

> BTW, Anyone find a better price on a warn 8274 than $740 US. (Complete
> with rollers and 150' cable.) Warn doesn't make a receiver hitch mount
> for this winch, so it looks like I buy one for the front AND rear of
> EACH vehicle?? NOT! I'm FAR too parsimonious!

David.. pick up a copy of some four-wheeler magazine and look for an add
from Leon Rosser Jeep in Alabama (800-633-4724). I bought a Ramsey 8000lb
winch a few years ago via mail order from them. It was $419 (in 1989). The
same winch in local 4WD supply places was going for over $700. 
As far as a receiver hitch mount, you'll probably have to design something
yourself. Besides, with 8000 lbs of pull, I think I would rather have the
winch mounted good and solid.

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (On the Road!)      
              7          1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern")
           #:-}>         1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts)

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From: Sekerere@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:41:07 -0400
Subject: Shopping in Africa

Hi everyone, well this Arizona LRO is back from seven weeks in Africa. Looked
at lots of land rovers and in lots of scrap yards. In fact every scrap yard
and car breaker from Bindura, Zimbabwe to Bulawayo, Zimbabwe to find a
tailgate for my Series IIA. Eventually successful in Harare at the princely
sum of Zimbabwe $ 250 (US $29 so as not to start another round of guessing
how much a foreign currency is worth). Reconditioned swivel hubs for very
reasonable price, and other assorted bits and pieces. So much to my wife's
horror we lugged these items back with us. Saw some really interesting LRs,
and some rather sad ones. Plenty of Discoveries driving around, a lot of
Santanas in Zimbabwe-the police use them. Also quite a few Defenders. But
then Africa is the land of Land Rovers.

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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:38:19 -0700
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: High Speed Aerodynamics or EFI?? (D90/RR) - trivial questions

OK here's a really important question (yes I'm being sarcastic) :) :

On my D90 (US version) I've noticed that when my speedometer gets into 
the 85-90mph range (actual speed 80-85mph) the vehicle occasionally 
experiences intermittent, but irregular, mild "hesitation".  This lasts 
for about 1 to 1.5 seconds per occurrence.   Time between occurrences 
may range from 15 seconds to a couple of minutes. Weather 
(temperature/wind etc.) seems irrelevant as I've observed this in 
several conditions (and altitudes).  I'm particularly 
UNCONCERNED about this given the rarity of the conditions under which 
its observed BUT was wondering what the cause might be.

My prime candidate is aerodynamic effects.  The boundary layer on these 
beasts seems to pretty much disappear around 50 mph (judging by 
raindrops on the windscreen), so I doubt there's anything happening with 
this.  However, I was wondering if there might be significant rear 
vortex collapse (or front layer build up?) causing this.  Any thoughts? 

The thought that interests me most is whether this hesitation is 
related to EFI performance.  I don't know enough about EFI to say if at 
speeds beyond those regularly anticipated for the vehicle such a 
hesitation effect would appear.  At first guess I'd have said no since 
the rpm isn't out of range compared to other speeds.  However, maybe the 
fuel delivery can't always keep pace at the rate of usage the system is 
probably undergoing at these speeds  --- err sorry at this speedometer 
reading :).  Anybody any comments on whether EFI could be causing this?

Any RR owners experienced anything similar?  Any other D90 owners?  
[Sorry-I'm assuming the Series folks don't reach such reckless 
(terminal?) velocities.]

Ignorant minds are intrigued :)

Cheers,

Jeremy Bartlett
D90 '94
SIIA 109SW '65

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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 17:19:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: High Speed Aerodynamics or EFI?? (D90/RR) - trivial questions

On Sun, 23 Jul 1995, Jeremy Bartlett wrote:

> Any RR owners experienced anything similar?  Any other D90 owners?  
> [Sorry-I'm assuming the Series folks don't reach such reckless 
> (terminal?) velocities.]

	We change the speedo to one denoted in kph for the thrill of breaking
	90...

	:-)

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Date: 23 Jul 95 20:03:35 EDT
From: Steve Rochna <75347.452@compuserve.com>
Subject: Down East Photos

Bob Virzi:

No luck mailing you direct.  That's my 72 SER III 88" (reg # ZUY 5845) and the
address is:

Steve Rochna
708 Daimler Dr.
Virginia Beach, Va. 23454

Thanks in advance and let me know which one was yours, I may have some photos
for you.

Steve.

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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:56:51 -0700
From: johnliu@earthlink.net (John Y. Liu)
Subject: WTB: Bench Seats

I'm looking at a pair of used folding bench seats for my 109.  They are
$200.  Does anyone have comments on how good/bad this price is, or have a
pair for sale?
John Y. Liu
johnliu@earthlink.net

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From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Science V's Religion V's LRO's
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:47:21 +0930 (CST)

The recent postings of Mike and others had me searching for a couple of
quotes I quite like.  Its taken me a while to find them :-(, so lets not
start the whole thing again...    Remember folks these are meant to be
humourous, not an attack on anyone.

SCIENCE: A way of finding things out and then making them work. Science
explains what is happening around us the whole time. So does RELIGION, but
science is better because it comes up with more understandable excuses when
it is wrong. There is a lot more Science than you think.
        -- From A Scientific Encyclopedia for the Enquiring Young Nome
           by Angalo de Haberdasheri
           (Terry Pratchett, Wings)

The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist
on coming along and trying to put things in it.
        -- (Terry Pratchett, Diggers)

P.S. Charlie how are the Brakes ??

-- 

  Daryl

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Date: 24 Jul 95 01:32:05 EDT
From: Aerostich/Andy Goldfine <74544.323@compuserve.com>
Subject: Land Rover Picnic Invitation

You are all invited to the 11th annual LAND ROVER PICNIC.  This year the event
is from August 10 - 13th (Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday) and is 
located near Backus, Minnesota (North Central Minnesota).  

Directions:  Go North on hwy #371 through the town of Backus and take the 
first gravel road to the West.  Look for the Rover Rally signs after a couple 
of miles.

Activities:  Camping, trail riding, potato shooting, potluck food and spirit 
consumption, yelling at the moon, lame excuseses and Rover related stories, 
etc...

Price: None.

Attendance: In previous years between 6 and 30 Land Rovers & Range Rovers have
participated from MI, WI, MN, IA and other central states.  This is an off 
road driving - winching - camping event that usually moves to a different site
each year, but this year is a repeat location because the terrain is so good. 

Further information:  Charlie @ 612 963 6892 or 8711 County Rd 7NW, Maple 
Lake, MN, 55358.  E mail replies may not be answered for up to a week.  

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  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 11 lines 435 [forwarded 19 whitespace 107]
 Output: lines 403 [content 206  forwarded 19 (cut  0) whitespace 107]

Precedence: 	bulk
Subject: 	The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 11:26:34 PDT
From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot)
Subject: Re: Wanted SIII 

All, 

I'm looking for a SIII 88", frame rotten, in reasonable condition, don't care 
if vehicle has engine and gearbox or not. Prefer all bodywork to be intact, 
dont care about condition, this is going to be a donor vehicle for my Range 
Rover / SIII coil sprung hybrid I'm building. Willing to pay upto $750. 

Mark

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From: "David McKain" <MCKAIN@faculty.coe.wvu.edu>
Date:          Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:32:13 EDT
Subject:       BRLRC Meet

FEI
The Blue Ridge Land Rover Club held a get together outside 
Parkersburg, WV this weekend in conjunction with a group of 
Kubelwagens (sp). Overall the terrain wasn't too severe and the meet 
seemed to be more about fixing fine German machinery. In addition to 
the Kubelwagens an Austin Champ showed up. The day of the meet was 
also used to greet a 101 FC ambulance just shipped in from Belize.

David McKain
1966 SIIa Petrol
mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu
(304) 599-0120
Morgantown, WV
USA                     

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:12:21 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: 2 steps forwward, 1 step back

The latest adventure of my saga of getting my 109 back on the road left me 
making progress and sabbatoging my self with a combination of being in a hurry 
and stupidity..

I laied up the Green Rover after a trip that included some off roading because 
of a dragging brake shoe and slowly leaking brake fluid.

an examination showed the front left wheel cylinder to be weeping brake fluid,
both front brakes to be swiming in grease/oil leaking from the inner hub seals, 
and the front wheels had a lot of play when wiggled.  The tie rod ends, having 
been replaced a few years ago were in very good shape.

Well it was time to bite the bullet and do the swivel ball rebuild (actually 
Scotty rebuild the swivel balls I just R&Red them) and the front brakes.

Pulling parts off I noticed that the front left wheel bearings had seen better 
days and the  front left axle 'U' joint had a place where it did not want to 
turn from.  I suspect that this was damage from the time I broke the front left 
stub axle and drove on it a few days before I realized what was wrong.  There 
was also grinding in the lower swivel ball housing where the axle joints hit it 
when carrying the weight of the car.  The front rubber brake hoses looked 
cracked and tired and I could see what looked like deep rust pitting on the 
front left brake line.

So with a bout of the reoccuring ship fitters disease I:

- had the swivel pins rebuilt
- put on new front wheel bearings
- new inner front axle bearing and race on the front left
- new front axle 'U' joint on the front left
- piped new brake lines throughout the car
- installed a new brake pressure distributer (blocks off one side of 
     a dual system when that side fails)
- new wheel cylinders all the way around
- new brake shoes all the way around
- replaced lower bushings on front shocks
- repainted air cleaner and both breathers
- changed oil & filter
- retorqued head
- adjusted valves
- installed splash screen in engine compartment 
     (Thanks Bob&Sue)
- replaced wiper arms & blades (one was missing & one was badly rusted)

Saturday, I finished plumbing the 109's dual brake system with all new steel 
lines and all new rubber hoses.  The old rear hose was badly swollen and had 
burst the outer layer.  I poured fluid in the resavour and quickly discovered 
two joints I have forgotten to tighten down.  I quickly tightened those, put an 
E-Z Bleed on the master cylinder and started to bleed the system.  No fluid 
would come out of the front left.  I opened the line at the top of the rubber 
hose and there was fluid.  I removed the drum and pulled the plunger from the 
top wheel cylinder (109's have two at the front). Dry.  I removed the front left
rubber brake hose and tried to blow through it...stopped up.  Well so much for 
genuine Land Rover rubber brake hoses.  Evidently the crimp stopped up the end. 
I opened it up with a long awal and widened it with the correct size knitting 
needle, reassembled the host into the brake circuit and the system worked fine.

I reattached the battery lead that I had disconnected when stringing steel lines
inside the engine compartment, tried to start the engine to have it seaze on me.

Welllll  It seems that When I looked up the torque settings I didn't pay 
attention to the page headding.  I torqued a 2-1/4 petrol head down to disel 
specs. 90 ft pounds instead of 60.  OOOOPPPPPs

The result is a sized engine.  Yesterday I untorqued the head and then engine 
spun fine.  I removed the head.  Surfaces on the head & block are straight.  One
side of the head gasket has ridges at the edge of the openings.

So everything is cleaned up awaiting delivery of a new head gasket.  And of 
course with ship fitters disease in my blood, it seems to be a good time to 
rejet the Rochester and to get the linkage arm spot welded to the shaft so it 
will stop wobbling around and changing my idle 500 RPM or more it idle.

Will I make the paradise lost run?  Depends upon when I get the head on and if 
everything works OK.  Assuming I dont decide that as long as I have the head off
I may as well repaint the car.  I would give my self a 45 to 50% chance of 
making the run at this time.  Though I worry about a run being the first trip 
after a major running gear rebuild.

TeriAnn paying for being in too much of a hurry to read the heading of the 
manual page

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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 95 18:41:46 PDT
From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
Subject: RE: K & N Filter #2 and Swivel balls 

I've used the Land Rover gaiter kit for my swivel balls over the last six 
years and mine are still in perfect condition.  The British army has 
specified them as standard fitting for years.
-------------------------------------
Tony Chapman             E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
HAWTEC                   Tel:    01905 723200
Haswell House            Fax:    01905 613338 
St. Nicholas Street      Mobile: 0973 316835
Worcester
WR1 1UW

Date: 04/22/95
Time: 09:26:25

This message was sent by Chameleon 
-------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:28:54 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Rochester carb

I just ordered a #48 main jet for my Rochester from British Pacific and have a 
question.

Does anyone know where the main jet is located on a Rochester single barrel?

Do I need to disassemble the carb or is there an access screw like my Ford 
tractor had?

TeriAnn

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From: Leland J Roys <roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com>
Subject: RE: Warn Winch mount
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:40:19 PDT

Re: Warn winch mount

Robert Virizi asked for more info on my winch setup.

It came down to wanting a winch on my '94 Defender 90 without having to 
get a full brush gard, bumper mounted winch.

I bought the Multi-Mount Winch Frame from WARN p/n 26370 for $150 from a 
local 4x4 shop. It comes with a quick disconnect battery cable. 

I already had a WARN 9000Xi winch from a previous truck, it fits right into
the winch frame with 4 bolts. 

I keep the frame/winch in the back of the defender, locked to the roll bar.
When I need it, I slips easily into the reciever and I then connect the 
battery cables (I keep the quick disconnect cable in the battery compartment
ready to go).

A question was brought up about the ability of the receiver to handle the
load of the winching, I honestly am not %100 sure. I have used the winch
a couple of times with this setup, and it seemed fine. I guess I would be
carefull to watch the loading, and make sure I did not see any bending etc.
One of the reasons I used this setup instead of the front mount, was my
frustration with a front mounted winch on my (now sold for the defender)
Toyoto 4-runner. After putting the winch on the front, I went through front
disc rotors about ever 5000 miles. The dealer told me that the extra weight
of the winch and frame past the front of the brakes did not cut it. Now,
I am sure that my defender is build much better, but I did not want to take
any chances.

Leland Roys
1994 Defender -90 (Red)
Cupertino, California 
roys@cup.hp.com

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:45:00 -0700
From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: Independent Nation?

 
>     You wouln't want to be part of us , or vice-versa. You don't need
>     our handgun murder rate, ...

> Tom Coron         tcoron@s850.mwc.edu
> King George,Va.   703-775-4575
> '66' IIA 88 RHD

  I know this is not PC (I don't have a .edu address) but, the US homicide
rate for whites is less than most European counties. It is a problem with a
certain US sub-culture, not borders, gun laws or main stream US culture.

 This is not the forum for political/cultural debate, but I will point out left
wing propaganda, when it is served up, especially on an international alias.

 
Ethnic and racial groups(%) Seattle  Vancouver
 White (non-Hispanic)        79.2       75.6
 Asian                        7.4       22.1
 Black                        9.5        0.3
 Hispanic                     2.6        0.5
 Native North American        1.3        1.5

 Annual age-adjusted homicide rates and relative risks of death
by homicide in Seattle and Vancouver, 1980 through 1986, according to
the race or ethnic group of the victim.* (homicide rates are
number/100,000)
                                               Relative
Race or ethnic group       Seattle   Vancouver   Risk     95% CI
 White (non-Hispanic)         6.2        6.4      1       0.8- 1.2
 Asian                       15.0        4.1      3.5     2.1- 5.7
  Excluding Wah Mee murders   9.5        ---      2.3     1.4- 4.0
 Black                       36.6        9.5      2.8     0.4-20.4
 Hispanic                    26.9        7.9      5       0.7-34.3
 Native North American       64.9       71.3      0.9     0.5- 1.5

[Total homicide:             11.3        6.9      1.63    1.38-1.93]

  *CI denotes confidence interval.  The relative risks shown are for 
  Seattle in relation to Vancouver.

The very small Black and Hispanic populations in Vancouver suffered a
single homicide each over the entire seven year study period.

The study is "Handgun Regulations, Crime, Assaults, and Homicide: A Tale
of Two Cities", Sloan, Kellerman, Reay, Ferris, Koepsell, Rivara, Rice,
Gray and LoGerfo, NEJM, V. 319 No. 19, November 10, 1988, p. 1256-62.

Regards, Bill G. 

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From: UncleBrad@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:13:26 -0400
Subject: Rover for sale

I was up at Scottys (in the SF Bay Area) yesterday and there in the driveway
was a beautiful series III 88! It is painted dark green (original color was
red) and sits real proud on a set of new tires (16", I think).

Someone had taken it up to Scotty to check out before buying. 

Smart move.

As it turns out, this cutie has a severely tweaked frame. You can get behind
it and draw an imaginary line forward from each rear wheel. The front wheels
are about 4" out of line! You might ask whether the rear axle casing is
merely shifted on the springs due to loose u-bolts, but the answer is no. An
inspection will show ripples on the frame as further confirmation that she's
bumped something pretty hard. The new galvanized rear crossmember is possibly
the replacement of a bashed-in old one.

So if you run across this sweet-looking Rover, beware that she isn't worth
the $7,000 that her owner is asking. After you figure in the cost of
replacing a complete frame, you might want to offer something more like
$2,000. That would be worth it, eh?

See ya!

Brad Blevins

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 17:47:01 EST
From: lenagham@bachman.com
Subject: Re: K & N Filter #2 and Swivel balls

     
>Does any one have a source for the K & N reusable air filter for 3.9  
>engine. Or have K&N address in CA. I know they don't list a phone. 
     
Rovers North now stock K&N filters for the Range Rover. The prices 
they quote are very similar to the price I paid from a local discount 
parts shop 2 years ago. Approc $39 + S&H.

Mike

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 14:50:59 -0700
From: Jimi Patel <jimi@voyager.Jpl.Nasa.Gov>
Subject: RR Brake Squeal - SCREEEECH

Scott Fugate,

Sometime ago, I had  similar problems with the brakes. Tried everything from
the goop to smear stuff, nothing worked. Even called the Range Rover "mystro"
told me to install new discs' all around. The problem started with purchase of
disk pads from England "mintex" brand. Started to squeel almost immediatly after
 install. So i got the rotors turned and that didn't stop it either. In, the end
 bought genuine pads "lucas" and fitted a rubber pad to hold it into the piston
from PORSCHE dealer. I don't know what the part numbers were but this ingenious 
suction pad stuck the pads to the caliper piston. No more sqeaks or screeeech...
Incidently, the Porsche dealer told me that in Europe this a common problem and
knew what i was talking about. Perhaps, those of you on the net can throw some 
light on the actual size of the piston diameter in mm. I will try to dig the 
sales slip for more info. 

        

Good luck,

Regards,

Jimi Patel..
e-mail jimi@voyager.jpl.nasa.gov

59 BMW 5.3 V8
85 RR   
95 Burban
95 Neon 

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Subject: Re: Rochester carb 
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:14:08 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199507241929.OAA23174@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote:
> I just ordered a #48 main jet for my Rochester from British Pacific and have 
> question.
> Does anyone know where the main jet is located on a Rochester single barrel?

	If your Rochester is like mine...  You have to take the 4 screws off
and separate the top and lower half.  The main jet is upside down at the bottom
if the float bowl (it is really a gas intake) and is removed via screwdriver.  
You will need rebuild kit to replace the main gasket.  I got mine from NAPA for
about $11.   Tell them its for a 1954 Chevy car.  I think the kit number ends
with 123, but I'm not sure.
  

Benjamin Smith
bens@vislab.navy.mil
1972 SIII 88

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Clutch problem conclusion.
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 18:25:40 EDT

Captain Norton is getting to the bottom of things:

> The problem I now have, is that there's so much slack in the links and 
  stuff at the actuating arm attached to the slave cylinder, like beyond 
  all feasable adjustment, that I'm going to have to fabricate some plates 
  to move the cylinder down against the mechinism so it thrown the clutch 
  out enough and at the right place.
  
  As you depress the Clutch pedal there should be about an eighth of an 
  inch free play, (this is the slack in the master cylinder), then about a 
  quarter of an inch of less free play (in the Slave Mech), and the clutch 
  should then start to disengage or seperate.
> The problem I now have, is that there's so much slack in the links and 

And about now you are wondering if your clutch slave cylinder push rod
is long enough.......

......we never did settle that one, folks.......

I suspect it looks just fine-one nice polished round end.  Hell, it
probably is fine-just shorter than it originally was, but it'll work
(for now).  It's so nicely polished because it is nicely worn, not
because it came that way.

Thing is, yer return spring is pulling the actuating mechanism and hence the 
slave piston to the top of the slave cylinder.  OK-that is where you'd
expect it to be-why not?  Doesn't NEED to be topped off, however, because
there is far less travel than one full cylinder stroke with each push of
the pedal-roughly half, in fact. So you can get away with a fully functioning
(and self adjusting) clutch if you just remove that return spring.  Later
IIa's came without it-yers can, too.  Take it off and put it someplace
safe (for the day when you buy a new slave cylinder pushrod).

So there's play in the linkage....whattaya expect from a 30+ 
year old rig?  Just as long as the pins (2) are in there and solid you
should be able to get away with a little play (assuming all the other bits
are intact).  A PO of my Nige, when faced with a similar dilema, resorted to 
putting the slave cylinder *below* the bracket that holds it (and this was
with the ball busting "framed-box" type mount....it required that all the
linkage had to be removed just to get the slave cylinder out...but it did
bring the thing a half inch closer to the push rod).  Not that way no
more....no return spring neither.....works just fine and I'm told that
I'm not to worry about excessive wear on my throw out bearing (from riding
on the clutch, which it supposedly is not doing even without the return
spring in there).

Are we to assume that you never did need the clutch and that all that was
originally wrong was insufficient play in the pedal (so the slave never
"bled out" and you kept bottoming on the base of the slave cylinder)??

Good experience, though.

Wasn't it?,
rd/nigel (private AJS)

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From: Leland J Roys <roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Cost of new Def-90?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 15:26:07 PDT

Re: Cost for New Defender:

Hello, After just reading the article about the cost for a Disco, I was
wondering what people have paid for a new '94 or '95 Defender 90. I 
just have the burning need to find out if a got a fair deal on my Def 90.
I bought it from Stevens Creek Land-Rover in Cupertino California. It
is a Red Def-90 with the Full top and Alloy wheels (No other options)
and a 1994 model (It was new with 50 miles on the odo).

I paid $30,900 out the door. Was this good or bad? I guess it is too late
now , but I am intersted in what other paid for a similiar truck.

Leland Roys
1994 Defender -90 (Red)
Cupertino, California
roys@cup.hp.com

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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 95 21:50:08 PDT
From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
Subject: Heated Screens & General Chat

Had a busy weekend.  Went to the international Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford on 
Saturday.  Amongst the static dispalys were a number of military Land Rovers 
including what appeared to be a winterised Defender 110.  This was fitted 
with the one-piece heated screen.  The bonnet was up so, inquisitive as ever, 
I had a look at the alternator.  This was a Magnetti Marelli and looked about 
the same size as a Lucas 18ACR.  Does anybody know what the current output of 
this alternator is?

Sunday found me at Billing where in addition to exacerbating Saturday's 
sunburn I was able to pick up my screens from Craddocks.  Took the 
opportunity to pick up a membership application for the Series II/IIA owners 
club.  The range of vehicles both in the event itself and just parked in the 
day visitors' car parks was fantastic.  The trouble with these events is that 
 there is just so much to look at.

There was a good variety of trade stands and I nearly succumbed to the 
temptation to buy a Hi Lift, but couldn't decide which one.  I think I'd go 
for a 48" but was uncertain whether to go for a Jackall or Hi-Lift.  The 
latter appears to come in two grades: de-luxe and premium.  Anybody have any 
thoughts on which is the best?

Without being disloyal to Land Rovers I greatly admired the Scammel Explorer 
that was parked near the trade stands.  When you look at something like this 
you wonder where British industry went wrong.

One of the stands had a new arctic heater but it had been sold just as I got 
there.  I have been interested in seeing one of these for some time as 
(surprise, surprise) lack of warmth in the landy is an annual problem for my 
wife and me.  Funny though, Dawn complained all the way from Banbury (where 
we stayed Saturday night) to Northampton about the heat coming through the 
floor.  There's no pleasing some people......

For those who have misting problems on soft tops and side windows, have you 
tried Holts Anti-Mist.  I've used this with a degree of success over the 
years, although it needs re-applying frequently.
 
-------------------------------------
Tony Chapman             E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
HAWTEC                   Tel:    01905 723200
Haswell House            Fax:    01905 613338 
St. Nicholas Street      Mobile: 0973 316835
Worcester
WR1 1UW

Date: 04/22/95
Time: 09:26:25

This message was sent by Chameleon 
-------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 16:02:30 -0700
From: Jimi Patel <jimi@voyager.Jpl.Nasa.Gov>
Subject: Cooling ....

Does anyone know cross reference numbers for a aftermarket fan clutch and
an oil pressure switch? Tried, Pepboyz, Chief Autos, Trak and other local
parts store .... all said no listing for a RR it is a dealer item.

Thanks in advance ..

Jimi Patel..
e-mail jimi@voyager.jpl.nasa.gov

85 Range Rover
95 Burban
95 Neon

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 17:02:35 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Clutch problem conclusion.

In message <199507242224.RAA23379@butler.uk.stratus.com> "Russell G. Dushin" 
writes:
> The problem I now have, is that there's so much slack in the links and 
;   stuff at the actuating arm attached to the slave cylinder, like beyond 
>   all feasable adjustment

> So there's play in the linkage....whattaya expect from a 30+ 
> year old rig?

OK folks  worn out clutch mechanical linkage is to be expected and is no big 
deal to replace.  All those worn out parts are easily relacable and are not 
expensive.

The Green Rover used to have worn linkage.  With everything adjusted all the way
& the hydrolic system in good order I could get the clutch to work only if I had
the clutch pedal on the floor.  raise it a half inch and it would grind.

I finally gave up and disassembled the linkage.  The holes in the collor going 
into the bell housing were elongated as were the holes in the 'L' shaped crank, 
and the bushing it sat in.

replace:
The collar and both pins (they wear too) BP # 561661 (X1) &536803 (X2)
the 'L' crank BP#537603 (X1)
The bushing assy  BP#90217984 (X1), 217985 (X2) 

maybe your clevis pin might be worn BP# 216421 & 275199

It maybe takes you an hour or two to do and if your clutch hydrolics are up to 
snuff your clutch will work like new.  Mine does.

Its not expensive, parts are readilly available and it will be a short project.
Don't hack around by moving the slave cylinder to try to compinsate for worm 
mechanical linkage.  It will probably take longer than fixing it correctly.

There you even have British Pacific parts numbers 800-554-4133 and their phone 
number.  Thats half the work done alredy.

TeriAnn

Why people go through more effort to hack a fix when it can be fixed correctly 
and inexpensivly is beyond me.

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Subject: Balls
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 18:28:39 -0500

Finnally a big hats off to the only person on the Land Rover net who was 
prepared to put his money where his mouth was.

When all the mail was flying about the Defender 110's in the US with the 
V8 diesel engines and great prices etc was going on Marko Stefanovich 
(oops dont have it to hand big guy) was convinced that these vehicles 
existed. He even had a "buddy' who was connected so he couldnt be wrong.

Unlike the rest of you "for sure" types Marko wagered a small amount 
onthis being true. I took the wager.

The other day i got a cheque in an envelope from Marko! Thanks big guy, 
at least you had the balls to stand behind your convictions!

Rgds

Robin Craig

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:55:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Francis J. Twarog" <ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Defenders in the US future?

	Just to give my perspective on the discussion about Defender 90s 
in the U.S. - I believe that they will be back in either MY 1997 or 
1998.  Why?  I suppose because of the airbag info. reported in that issue 
in Land Rover World.  Although I don't always believe everything I read, 
it seemed to make sense that the UK will soon be on the heels of US 
safety regulation. As for engine emmisions, I'd guess that if the Def 90 
were re-imported, it would share the same engine as that model year's 
Discovery.
	I wonder if Charles Hughes and the gang ever considered what Land 
Rover used to do for the export market in certain parts of Africa.  I 
believe the cars were referred to as "CKD" Land Rovers, or "Completely 
Knocked-down."  As the name implies, the imported cars could be spared 
any duties by arriving as kits and then being assembled at the Land Rover 
plant inside the country.  I have to believe that this pattern would be 
possible for the US, as there is already a BMW plant here - perhaps 
Defender kits could arrive duty-free and then be assembled at that 
plant.  Then, Land Rover would have a vehicle that was not only priced 
competetively with high-end Jeep Wranglers (the Sahara model being over 
$21,000 loaded), but have airbags etc.  I would estimate without duty, 
but with all of the new safety/emmisions features, the price would be 
somewhere around $23-24,000.  
	Does this sound plausable to anyone but me?  The only thing I 
could see being a problem would be when Land Rover boosts yearly sales 
from 1400 to around 14000 - I mean, really!  Who would buy a new Jeep 
when a Defender w/ airbags is just a few grand more?!  I do believe that 
that is the driving motivation behind so many people buying Discoveries 
over Explorers and Grand Cherokees, right?  I'd like to hear what people 
think...
Frank Twarog
Boston, USA

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 21:35:24 +0000
From: gwilcox@icis.on.ca (Gowyn Wilcox)
Subject: See Ya fa now

Hi folks, thought I'd say goodbye for now.  My 66 IIa SWB is nearing
completion and the bank gods require the sacrifice of the mighty MAC.
Small price to pay for such a mighty beast.  Actually turns out that she's
an ex MoD artic beastie.  Took me the longest time to figure out why she
was white with Safari top and all sorts of odd copper fittings inside.
Anyhow, TTFN.....

P.S.  See ya'll around

P.P.S.  Thanks for everything Dixon

Built for comfort and speed......NOT!!!!

                                                         BUILT TO LAST...

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 21:40:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: 5 speed etc...

Jim Dolan counts gears...

> Save yourself a bunch of money (and possibly heartache)-call neutral a
> speed
> and you have one already! ("Don't change the program, change the
> documentation") (It works good; I have 2 speed wiper motors: on and off!

Around here we call that "Mexican Overdrive"....

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (On the Road!)      
              7          1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern")
           #:-}>         1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts)

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From: "thomas r. coron" <tcoron@s850.mwc.edu>
Subject: Re: Independent Nation?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 21:46:19 EDT

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From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 19:10:44 PDT
Subject: Re: 	D90 hesitation

Jeremy Bartlett wondering why his D90 hiccoughs at around indicated 85-90. 
Jeremy, this is your fuel being cutoff by the computer program on your ECU!! 
Perfectly *normal* in both D110 and D90.

Reason? Primarily due to the speed rated off-road BFG tires. Lower speed 
rating than either Rangey or Disco. Nothing wrong with your car and nothing to 
do with vortexes, black holes, or anything else. Although at speeds any 
greater than terminal on Defenders, it really becomes a horsepower order of 
magnitude to break the century mark with the truck's brick-like drag 
coefficient!! And then there's the noise!

Enjoy your snail-like 85 mph!

By the way, I had the Rover limited-slip rear on my `67 2A when I first got it 
back in `71. It never seemed to work too well. It packed up completely one day 
when I tried to reverse and couldn't. Disassembly revealed a munched 
friction-disc affair which we promptly dumped and replaced by the standard 
Rover center. In my current resto efforts on this vehicle, I have installed 
the ARB locker after much grinding of the housing. It is a simple bolt-in on a 
RR, DISCO or D90. D110 w/Salisbury rear is a *DIFFerent* (sorry) story!

cheerz
Jim - now completely mad... and loving it!
`67 2A 88 5.0L Hybrid
`67 2A 109 5.0L Hybrid
`68 2B 110 F/C Diesel
`70 P6B 3500S
`90 Range Rover County
`93 D110
`95 D90

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From: "thomas r. coron" <tcoron@s850.mwc.edu>
Subject: Re: Independent Nation?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:23:50 EDT

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
> certain US sub-culture, not borders, gun laws or main stream US culture.
>  This is not the forum for political/cultural debate, but I will point out left
> wing propaganda, when it is served up, especially on an international alias.
   Please do not assume that I am "left wing" due to my edu mail
   address, and I won't assume you are a redneck due to your comment
   about our murder rate being a problem with "a certain U.S.
   subculture".. I'm a typical, middle aged white male who happens to
   be taking computer science courses at this college.
       I don't care who's carrying the handgun, I'm at risk whether
   they're black, white or whatever. I had a fellow employee friend
   who was shot because he aced someone out of a parking place a 
   couple years ago. I feel safer on the streets if fairly sure that
   the people around me aren't carrying guns. I'm also not concerned
   about drive-by knifings.
    

Tom Coron         tcoron@s850.mwc.edu
King George,Va.   703-775-4575
'66' IIA 88 RHD

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 19:35:08 PDT
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: Defenders in the US future?

In reply to Francis J. Twarog on '96 jeeps vs Land Rover D90's.

Jeep is working on a completely redesigned Wrangler.  It is to be introduced
some time in '96.  Most rumors are that it will have the Grand 
Cherokee's coil suspension and more car like interior.  Exterior will remain
basically unchanged.  I've heard the hood is a bit more aerodynamic (in a 
Jeep?).  If they keep the price down, and don't go light duty on the parts,
it could make a great 4x4.  (Still won't be a Land Rover though) I don't
expect the present Defender would ever be competitive price wise.  I could
see limited releases every couple years to keep up Land Rover's "serious" off
road reputation, but that's about it until a complete redesign.   

It's hopeless.  If you really want a D90 buy now.  Although I've heard 
prices are already starting to rise.

-Rick

'94 D90 - for sale, $90K, black, 9.8K miles,
          very rare, limited, NAS edition.

Richard Larson
LSI Logic Corporation
(408) 433-7149

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:42:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: I'm back !!!

Bill returns from his wanderings...

> And Majordomo's been hard at work so almost nobody should have known I was
> gone !

Well.... Almost. The good Major has been very mischievous snipping the last
line off of everybodies messages....

> Burago 1/47 Land Rover Aziza (red), Lire 2400
> Burago 1/47 Land Rover Aziza (brown), (with 1/43 Ferrari 348) Lire 4400
> Solido 'Yesterday' 1/43 Range Rover 2-door (1987, metallic Green),
>         opening doors, etc. 24,000Lire

So, how many slabs *is* 24,000Lira anyway???

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (On the Road!)      
              7          1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern")
           #:-}>         1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts)

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:43:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: 5 speed etc...

Went to an all British car meet in Schnectady, NY this weekend... Only one
other Rover there besides mine, and it wasn't on the field with all the cars.
I did see an interesting conversion though. An MGB with a Rover V-8 and 5
speed transmission. Seems that if you can stuff one in an MGB, you should be
able to stuff one in a Rover, eh?

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (On the Road!)      
              7          1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern")
           #:-}>         1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts)

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:43:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Clutch problem conclusion.

TeriAnn's advice.... 

> There you even have British Pacific parts numbers 800-554-4133 and their
> phone number.  Thats half the work done alredy.

Good call with the phone number TeriAnn... the guy's in England...

Gee.. kids these days...

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (On the Road!)      
              7          1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern")
           #:-}>         1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts)

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:57:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: RN or AB engine parts???

Hey folks I'm doing a complete rebuild of my 2 1/4 petrol engine and need 
to know if anyone has any words  of wisdom on either RN or AB  engine parts.
AB is a good bit cheaper..but are the parts crap? Do you really get what 
you pay for with RN or am I paying a big price for the wrapper that has 
the "official logo" on it???

thanks
Russ

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:06:55 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Prices of Land Rovers in US

> Is it me or have things gotten a bit out of hand in the way of 
> second-hand Rovers.  

I recently saw a '93 110 for sale in the SF Chronicle for $52,000.  If the 
original list price was $40K (I think?), that represents a 30% increase in 
value over 2-3 years.  And it wasn't even a low #/500 (somewhere in the high 
400's?).  That's a pretty good investment, if you ask me!  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:07:11 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: tools/5-speeds/etc

> 1. I am ready to buy new tools, to replace my stolen set. I am looking

> Does anyone have suggestions on SF area locations to obtain these items. 
> I am leaning towards getting something like SK tools (I don't like the

Try Auto Parts Club in So City.  Right near the Price Club just north of the 
Airport.  That is, Take 101/380 to South Airport Boulevard, just north of SFO. 
 You'll see a Big Price Club building on the east side.  To the west, a block 
or so off S.Airport is APC.  Good prices if you're a member, still decent if 
not.  (Like 1gal. 90wt for < $7.00!)

My brother is a member if you don't want to join; I could probably talk him 
into a trip down there.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:06:52 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Next question... (Written in "Taylor-ease")

Dave "Taylor" Brown asks...
> And the "Taylor" question of the day... "If I hook the hook of a front
> mounted winch to the rear end, can I shorten my wheel base? Say, turn
> my "88" into an "80"?

Actually, yes.  What you need is the Popeet Frame Extender/Compressor system. 
 The regular model will allow you to change your 88" into an 84", while the 
"extended range" model will actually give you an 89"!  (Works on 109"s, too, 
giving you a 100"!  Perfect for swapping between your 109" station wagon body 
and your Range Rover body!)  

And free, with every order, this lovely set of potato peelers, curly-fry 
makers, and lemon juicer!  Act now, and you'll also get the handy-dandy 
combination fish scaler and pizza slicer!

They're distributed exclusively in the US by British Pacific, I think...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:47:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: A/C for Series Land Rovers

Coleman made a roof mounted system that used water and worked the same 
way.  You can still get them at RV centres.  The roof unit looks like a 
mushroom and works very well.  I mentioned it about two weeks ago as a 
way to air condition a LR without using the little power we have.  Dave VE4PN

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From: a-robw@microsoft.com
Subject: Another new Disco owner
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 19:39:00 PDT

It's now got 85 miles on it and these are my first impressions:

 - Black is sure pretty... until the kids and the cats get a hold of it :-(
 - Rear air-conditioning should required on Black ones as the front air 
conditioner seems to barely keep up. Which is worrisome since I live in 
Seattle (a place not exactly famous for it's sunshine and warm weather.)
 - Definitely a much more luxurious ride then the Jeep Wrangler! (I'll never 
be able to go back.)
 - The vehicle was delivered in perfect condition except the rubber trim 
around the rear side window has some bizzare rust color stuff on it that 
rubs off, sort of.
 - Next step is to get the windows tinted. Anything to keep the sun (and 
heat) down.

loads of fun! I suspect this silly smile I have will fade eventually, too.

 -- Bob Watson
a-robw@microsoft.com
Disco owner for 4 hours and counting

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Photos & text Copyright 1990-2011 Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved.
Digest Messages Copyright 1990-2011 by the original poster or/and Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved.