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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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msgSender linesSubject
1 "Stefan R. Jacob" [1000412Taking leave...
2 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu40U.S.Specs and Defender
3 Mr Ian Stuart [Ian.Stuar21 Re: an aerodynamic "feature" ?
4 Mr Ian Stuart [Ian.Stuar38 Re: Rover sales down 11%... Yeah...
5 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu14Re: an aerodynamic "feature" ?
6 Andrew Grafton [A.J.Graf32Expedition Preparation
7 hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.co17Heated Series Windscreens
8 First Lastname [First.La4http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills/landrover.html
9 mtzphil@vax.ccc.nottingh28Mike Rooths anti-science rant
10 "Steve Methley" [sgm@hpl16Re: Heated Series Windscreens
11 "R. Pierce Reid" [70004.25LR's in Movies... More
12 Mr Ian Stuart [Ian.Stuar20 Re: LR's in Movies... More
13 Steve Methley [sgm@hplb.18Re: Heated Series Windscreens
14 Russell Burns [burns@cis13Re: Heated Series Windscreens
15 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu16Re: Mike Rooths anti-science rant
16 BobandSueB@aol.com 30Re: #2(3) The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
17 berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff 42Tuning question.
18 jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (21Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
19 "TeriAnn Wakeman" [twak52Re: U.S.Specs and Defender
20 DANCSC@aol.com 41Let's keep the D90's coming
21 Nckcharles@aol.com 41Re: The comments of Mike Rooth on Ian Smith
22 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em45Re: U.S.Specs and Defender
23 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV 35Next question... (Written in "Taylor-ease")
24 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em22Re: Next question... (Written in "Taylor-ease")
25 jhong@haiku.com (John Ho24re; 96 defenders...
26 cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk29Re: Next question...
27 jhoward@argus.lowell.edu14Re: Winch or Lockers?? Which one first?
28 Tony Dunmore [lightweigh53re: Heated Screens (repost)
29 Russell Burns [burns@cis27Range Rovers lucasisms
30 Charlie Wright [cw117@mo40Re: re; 96 defenders...
31 "John B. Friedman" [joha65Discovery first impressions
32 jhong@haiku.com (John Ho38Re: save the D90!
33 "TeriAnn Wakeman" [twak15Re: U.S.Specs and Defender
34 John Brabyn [brabyn@skiv20Re: re; 96 defenders...
35 "Francis J. Twarog" [ftw14Prices of Land Rovers in US
36 Leland J Roys [roys@hpke33Defender 90 winch
37 "Russell G. Dushin" [dus25Prices of Land Rovers in US (fwd)
38 Leland J Roys [roys@hpke31Diff dropping out
39 a-robw@microsoft.com 34RE: Discovery first impressions
40 Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk 47RE: Heated Series Windscreens
41 "Tom Rowe" [TROWE@AE.AGE19 RE: Heated Series Windscreens
42 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV 36Limited slip not in a LR Series IIa.
43 dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu27Re: diff locks (again)
44 tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au 31Prices for 2nd Hand Landies
45 Benjamin Allan Smith [be27[not specified]
46 dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu24Re: Limited slip not in a LR Series IIa.
47 dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu11Re:positrac price...
48 rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca13[not specified]
49 rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca11[not specified]
50 rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca19[not specified]
51 dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu44Re: Down under club
52 cs@crl.com (Michael Carr281 slab = 22.5 banana dollars
53 dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu411 slab is ~ $22.50 banana dollars!
54 tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au 10Iced Coffee


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Date: 20 Jul 95 05:24:47 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Taking leave...

JFYI I'm unsubscribing temporarily as I'll be vagabonding around Europe
for the next 4 weeks, including stops at Billing and Lillehammer (Norway).
E-mail still works, but you might have to wait for an answer...

Later,

Stefan

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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: U.S.Specs and Defender
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 10:13:04 BST

TeriAnn hits the nail on the head.......
Its all about U.S.Specs.Its simply not economical to modify
what is,after all,a nearly fifty year old concept to suit
one country.the rest of the world seems content to take it
as it is.The Canadians want a bog standard Ninety(or whatever),
the workhorse version,but it appears that U.S.Specs rears its
ugly head and they cant(Right,Dixon?).
By the time you've modified the thing,in relatively small
quantities,the price would be so high no one would buy it.
So it would die on you anyway.
For those that dont know,the standard 90 (rest of the world
spec)is a 2.5 300 Tdi diesel,by far the most popular option,
hardtop,no side windows.Seats are vinyl,three abreast in the
front,of course,otherwise where's the dog going to sit on the
way to market with the back full of piglets or whatever.
The back is devoid of any signs of being other than a van.
No roll cage,no bull bar.Owners of S111 88" machines will
find this a familiar litany no doubt.They ought to.
There's one on this Campus,light blue,with the name of a
fencing contractor signwritten on its side panels,and a
damn great trailer hooked up at the back.
For my money,the best of the bunch is the 130 crewcab
pickup.Room for six in the fourdoor cab *and* a fair
sized pickup bed behind that.Tdi,of course.
When you compare the two,the U.S.Spec 90 is unbeleivable.
To be perfectly honest,and call me reactionary if you
like,you're welcome to it!Seems like a very expensive toy
to me.Still,whatever turns you on,I suppose,and its certainly
an education to see what the old workhorse *can* be turned into.
I suspect,also,that the virtual impossibility of fitting the
thing with airbags,at any sort of reasonable cost,will have
a good deal to do with any withdrawal from the U.S market.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:36:43 +0000
Subject:       Re: an aerodynamic "feature" ?

On 19 Jul 95, Lloyd Allison wrote:

> If you drive along in rain or drizzle, water collects just round
> the leading edge of the bonnet somewhere out of sight.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> raining, remember? It's a bit of a shock the first few times that it
> happens.
My SIII 109 does it too!

It might be a function of the Delux bonnet (lipped) v's the standard 
bonnet (thinner)

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

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From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:41:47 +0000
Subject:       Re: Rover sales down 11%... Yeah...

From:          Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Organization:  Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh
Date:          Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:25:48 +0000
Subject:       Re: Rover sales down 11%... Yeah...
Reply-to:      Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk
Priority:      normal

On 19 Jul 95, Mike Rooth wrote:

> > Diesel's only problems are (1) the smell and (2) the large particulate
> > waste product....

> Particulate what? Oh*soot*.Not a waste product,Ian.

Exactly!
People are told that Diesel is the devils fuel and that leaded petrol burns
holes in the atmosphere, so they all use unleaded by preference (except
some places where the government has been conned totally and won't let
punters buy anything that ain't good for them (unless it's politically
dangerous, in which case they hide and make no discission)

If manufacurers put as much money into diesel engines as they do into
petrol engines, diesel would be excellent - but there ain't the profit in
diesel & the image is wrong, so let's keep our profits and sod the rest of
you

(cynical, not me mate ;-)

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: an aerodynamic "feature" ?
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 11:36:55 BST

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)]
> Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
>  <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>
My S11A 88 does it,too! Standard bonnet,though.

Mike Rooth

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From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Expedition Preparation
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 11:52:47 BST

In the first week of August, we are going to totally overhaul our
two 109" SIII diesels.  Work is to include new springs all round,
halfshafts where necessary, seals, bearings, ball joints, steering
relays as required, brakes, shocks <can't be bothered to list the
rest>.

Are there any hints and tips regarding the fitting of revamped 
or new parts which relate particularly to expedition-type
maintenance or prevention of problems?

The thing that led me onto this was a query from someone about 
the possibility of getting heavy grease between the spring leaves 
before we fit them, in order to increase their life when used
in a situation where they will be experiencing a lot of 
articulation during a relatively short period of time (6 months).
I'm not convinced as grease tends to attract
and trap dirt which might have just the opposite effect to that 
desired.

Sorry about the nebulous question.
All experiences or comments gratefully recieved.

All the best,

Andy
A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk

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From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 07:50:42 EST
Subject: Heated Series Windscreens

Just ordered mine from Craddock's, too.  Thanks to Tony for 
posting the info.  Voice on the phone said wiring and 
switches were not part of the kit, but who knows.  Quoted 58 
sterling -- suppose that reflected subtraction of VAT.  A 
case of "get one while you can."

Other than connecting to 12v DC and adding a switch and 
maybe a dedicated fuse, what else is needed electrically, 
anyway?

Hank

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 23:18:53 +0000
From: First Lastname <First.Last@dept.unimelb.edu.au>
Subject: http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills/landrover.html

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From: mtzphil@vax.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:23:28 BST
Subject: Mike Rooths anti-science rant

Mike Rooth says:
> How often for example, have you seen the experimental 
method published,or,come to that, their controls.

If you could be bothered to look up the original sources for 
scientific findings, you would find the method and controls etc 
laid out for your delectation as you suggest. The problem is that 
the non-scientific community (including politicians and 
journalists) prefers simple shock horror banner headline 
certainties to the uncertainties and further questions which are 
always raised by any kind of decent research. The reason any 
research findings get out at all is that they ARE published in 
peer-reviewed journals. I^Rm sorry, Mike but researchers are just 
too busy earnig their livings to ensure that you personally have a 
copy of every paper published in every scientific journal on the 
earth (or even in the English language). If you^Rre that interested, 
get off down to a library and look the damn thing up for yourself.

Phil Taylor
Univ. Dept. Anaesthesia, Nottingham UK
73 lt/wt
90 Disco

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From: "Steve Methley" <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:49:33 +0100
Subject: Re: Heated Series Windscreens

hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com> writes:

>Subject: Heated Series Windscreens
>Other than connecting to 12v DC and adding a switch and
>maybe a dedicated fuse, what else is needed electrically,

A blooming big battery!  ;-)

Best Regards,
Steve.

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Date: 20 Jul 95 09:06:34 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: LR's in Movies... More

Some new LR's in movies for the master list:

The Fourth Protocol has a Defender (or County) 110 in the beginning.  May be
military.  Also Range Rover later on.

Judge Dredd has a modified 101 forward control being used as some kind of a
"Taxi with an attitude"

Finally, the new Ace Ventura Pet Detective (Sequal) will have about 5 Land
Rovers in it, most of which get blown up or otherwise rapidly disassembled
through high-speed chemical combustion.

Anyone tried to install Gaiters on a US Spec. Defender 90?  I have a kit that
does not fit and am debating returning it or modifying it to work on the D90.
While my swivel balls are nice and shiny, I'd like to get gaiters on it...
Anyone tried this?

Cheers, 

R. P. Reid

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From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:45:17 +0000
Subject:       Re: LR's in Movies... More

On 20 Jul 95, R. Pierce Reid wrote:

> Judge Dredd has a modified 101 forward control being used as some kind of
> a "Taxi with an attitude"
In the July issue of Knave (or Fiesta or Men Only or one of those ilk), 
there is a 2-page article on the CityCab - as if it were a real vehicle.

It's my opinion that the readers of such comics would probably swallow 
such a cock-and-bull story as the CityCab being in production in 1995 (and 
please forgive the intentional puns ;-}

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:29:44 +0100
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> (by way of cw117@cus.cam.ac.uk 
Subject: Re: Heated Series Windscreens

hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com> writes:

>Subject: Heated Series Windscreens
>Other than connecting to 12v DC and adding a switch and
>maybe a dedicated fuse, what else is needed electrically,
A blooming big battery!  ;-)

In all seriousness, you will probably want to be sure your running an
alternator... on a cold, dark, wet night..... the dynamo ain't gonna put
out enough for wipers, lights, heater, and windscreen.... it can't quite
manage the first three unless it's on TOP form.

Charlie (who's made the big 'switch')

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From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Heated Series Windscreens
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 7:18:17 PDT

 A couple of batteries, a good heavy duty 24v altenator, a heated
fold down window.... what a great yuppie hot plate. This alone
could keep the D-90 in the states thu 1999...

Russ
94 D-90
91 R-ROver

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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Mike Rooths anti-science rant
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 15:27:46 BST

Phil,
I personally dont give a flying fart.I dont believe most of
it anyway.So researchers are too busy earning money?Fine.
Exactly the point I was trying to make.
Of course the press/politicos misquote,quote out of context
etc.I just thought that researchers might be somewhat bothered
about the results of their work being distorted in this manner.
I was obviously wrong.

Mike Rooth

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From: BobandSueB@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:45:28 -0400
Subject: Re: #2(3) The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

In a message dated 95-07-20 06:24:42 EDT, you write:

>An old chestnut I've not seen aired here:
>why do L-R drum brakes all (?) squeal and is there any way to
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>stop them? - apart from lubricating with oil!
>lloyd

I find that if you chamfer the leading edge of the shoes, and make sure the
rivets are tight, this should remove the squeel.
In other words take a grinder to the brake shoes and change the edge from
sharp to angled probably flatter than 45 deg. This has worked for mine. just
around a 1/4 to 1/2 " .If you cant tell the leradin edge, then do both ends
then it wont squeel in reverse. :>)
I only experienced the squeeling when I bought a set of brake shoes 
from  Atlantic British which were factory supplied.
The previous bonded linings did not do it.

Bob Bernard

PS wear a nose guard as you don't want to breath the residue( most likely is
asbestos).

Bob

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:51:42 -0400
From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg)
Subject: Tuning question.

I'm hoping one of the list's mechanically inclined will take a few moments
out to help a Rover owner who doesn't have a background in automotive
repair.  Recently my 2.25 petrol IIa began to stall out at stop lights.  I
turned the  idle up slightly which prevents the stalling, but I've noticed
that the car still stutters while idling or during the first moments of
acceleration after I let the clutch out.  The exhaust fumes themselves are
"wet and sooty"  Can someone please help me with what this means (or might
mean).  Should I be adjusting fuel/air mixture?  Is this a timing problem?

I've got a Zenith carb, and have actually located (with very little help
from the Haynes manual) the idle adjustment and what I'm 90% certain is the
mixture adjustment.  However I have no way of knowing which way to turn the
mixture adjustment for richer or leaner, so help on this front would also
be appreciated.

I feel like these are really basic questions and if anyone can point to a
good book on general auto mechanics I'd really appreciate it.  I have taken
a basic course on maintenence of marine engines so I'm not totally in the
dark. I do have a Haynes manual and will be buying a factory manual
shortly, but I find that they assume some knowledge that I don't have.
(Like when your exhaust is wet and sooty you want to do this...)

I'm basically looking for a "quick fix" as the car will be having a full
tune up shortly.  On the other hand, what better time to get a feeling for
"doing it myself" than right before it's due to see a professional who can
undo whatever damage my clumsy fingers cause.

Regards!

==                                                                 ==
 Jeffrey A. Berg              Interactive Telecommunications Program
 Technical Administrator                         New York University
                          berg@acf2.nyu.edu
                          =================
Look what happens when you love someone, and they don't love you.
                                       --Warren Zevon, The Heartache
==                                                                 ==

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:43:46 -0700
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

You wrote: 

>My stage-1 L-R has an interesting aerodynamic "feature". Since
>the bonnet (hood) of the 110/90s seems to be the same I wonder
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>if you've turned off the wipers - because it stopped raining, remember?
>It's a bit of a shock the first few times that it happens.
>I was just wondering if 110/90s (and other stage 1's) do this too?
You bet.  In fact, if you cruise along at just the right slowly increasing 
speed you can accumulate a fair amount of water.  My own belief is that this is 
actually another of those cunning LR chap's design features allowing the 
vehicle to pressure wash itself in remote areas :)

Cheers
 
Jeremy

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 08:54:55 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: U.S.Specs and Defender

In message <199507200929.EAA13930@butler.uk.stratus.com> Mike Rooth writes:

> TeriAnn hits the nail on the head.......
> Its all about U.S.Specs.Its simply not economical to modify
> what is,after all,a nearly fifty year old concept to suit
> one country.

So maybe Rover should open a factory and design centre in the US.  They could 
manufacture 2 door Range Rovers & Discoveries and engineer a new series Land 
Rover that carrys on the spirit and looks but can keep its passangers alive from
a 50 or 60 MPH side or front impact.  If they design it correctly and build it 
in the US it could sucessfully go head to head with the Jeeps and become a very 
high volume selling car.  The market is huge.  You just need the right car at 
the right cost with a real dealer network.

> as it is.The Canadians want a bog standard Ninety(or whatever),
> the workhorse version,but it appears that U.S.Specs rears its
> ugly head and they cant(Right,Dixon?).

Last I heard, Canada was an independant nation with its own governing body 
capable of making their own regulations.  Thier problem is that they are a small
market next to a hugh market.

> by far the most popular option,
> hardtop,no side windows.

I thought the no side windows were only popular in the UK and that only because 
of tax reasons

> Seats are vinyl,three abreast in the
> front,of course,otherwise where's the dog going to sit on the
> way to market with the back full

???  Ever try to fit an Irish Wolfhound in the middle seat of a Land Rover?

There is not enough room.  I tried it with a large goat once when I had a pickup
top on the 109 and it was raining heavily.  She kept turning knocking the 
transmission out of gear and turning off the ignition key.  Right afterwards I 
traded the pickup top for a full safari top.  I didn't want to go through that 
again.

The dog in the front seat of course always wants to stick his head out the 
drivers side window.

Sorry the load must be a little smaller and the dog goes in back.

TeriAnn

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From: DANCSC@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:57:05 -0400
Subject: Let's keep the D90's coming

In a message dated 95-07-20 06:25:46 EDT, you write:

>Just my thoughts in case anyone from LRNA or Lode Lane is monitoring this 
>list!
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>Mill Valley, Ca
>89 RR

in regards to your thoughts on keeping the D90 around, no-one here could or
would argue with you, but IF anyone from LRNA were monitoring this list, or
any of the other lists for that matter, they would surely have been working
late nights to come up with a solution to put in front of the suits by now.
  I am of the opinion that the powers at LRNA don't have much regard for the
American consumer (but then who does?) after the sale.  Since they aren't
making the sales they need (do to a tremendous lack of advertising) they are
electing to pull out.  It would be no problem for a company of their caliber
to bring the defenders to US specs, In my opinion, I think these guys are
still pissed about that incident with the tea back in Boston, circa 1776. 
  What say we get together and work as a group on a viable solution to their
problem, and present it to the powers that be?
  Anyone interested in trying to preserve an endangered species? I know I've
fought for much less important things in my day...(ie.later bedtimes...)
  Let's use the strength of our numbers to keep something we love alive and
well in the US!
  Hell, we could organize a Rovers-Across-America campaign, or something
equally insane to show our support for the marque, plus, we could probably
work out a deal where LRNA hooks up the folks responsible for all the Rover
Buzz with new D90's of their own, in appreciation for all their hard work!
(let's don't hold our breath on that part))
Rover Power to the People!
Dan of Rosa
dancsc@aol.com
1800.862.7520w
1707.546.4277h
1707.585.0960f 

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From: Nckcharles@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 12:31:50 -0400
Subject: Re: The comments of Mike Rooth on Ian Smith

Mike, thanks for the rebutal of Ian Stuart's recent rant and rave.
An American commentator has noted:
"that the average American now has more fears than a Medieval peasant".
Apparently things are little better in Mother Country.
"Junk science" has crossed the pond and has politicized every decision,
thus handing ever more power and control to the bureaucrats.
The fact that human life spans continue to increase in industrial countries,
that these populations are far healthier than people in preindustrial, a.k.a
"all-natural, societies, (read: 3rd world ), seems to make no impression
on the eco-weenies.
For both the Greens and the Socialists, the jury seems always to be out,
and no amount of contrary evidence will persuade the true believers.
Mr Smith's rant about "fat cat" used cars dealers screwing their innocent
victims was remarkable. Let me get this straight, they'll sell you a car that
you can resell to the bozos who set up this program and only make 200 quid? 
Boy that sounds like cruel and unusal punishment to me. (Wait a minute,
I think I understand Mr. Stuart's objection, they made a "profit", how
declasse' )
I presume he means we should all put in 50 hour work weeks not for profit,
but for the "Greater Good". Now where have I heard that before? 
Whatever happened to capitalist transactions between consenting adults? 
Perhaps governments will set up programs to help us shop wisely with the
money that they haven't already confiscated.
Are things so tough in Britian that used car dealers are now considered
"fat-cats"?
This does not bode well for the Empire.
Anyway, just thought you might enjoy a few thoughts from the colonies.

 " That idea is so dumb, only an intellectual would believe it"

                                                                           G.
Orwell
Regards to all
Nick
     Land-Rover: "beats bringing back returnable bottles in a shopping cart"

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 12:45:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: U.S.Specs and Defender

On Thu, 20 Jul 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

> > as it is.The Canadians want a bog standard Ninety(or whatever),
> > the workhorse version,but it appears that U.S.Specs rears its
> > ugly head and they cant(Right,Dixon?).

> Last I heard, Canada was an independant nation with its own governing body 
> capable of making their own regulations.  Thier problem is that they are 
> a small market next to a hugh market.

	Land Rover Canada is a wholy owned subsidiary of Land Rover North
	America...  LRCanada asked for a bog standard 90.  Got turned down.
	Doesn't fit with the "LR Lifestyle" they are pushing south of the
	border.  The local dealership had lots of people looking at the
	D90 (when they had them), but the people saw the price and asked
	for a used Series vehicle or if they had the cash, paid a bit more
	and went for the Disco.  The new British phlemsucking Leyland
	is just a marketing front for some brilliant old technology
	that gets updated regularly (every six months now I think)

	BTW, as for independent country, picking a date for this 
	independence is tough.  Was it 1867 when the British North
	America act was passed, or 1932 with the Statutes of Westminster 
	which gave Canada the right to conduct external relations without
	Westminster's approval, or 1949 when court cases could not be
	appealed to the Privy Council in London, or 1982 when the 
	Constitution was patriated (Westminster was required to approve
	any constitutional changes, though not all provinces agree with
	this patriation and not signed on yet)?...  The Queen of Canada,
	who happens to be the Queen of England et al. is still our
	head of state.  In fact, if Chucky every wants to get the throne,
	it not only requires Westmnister to approve the succession, but the
	Canadian Parliament also has to approve it (how they got into this
	I am not sure).  Basically were are politically independent, but
	economically?  Not a chance.

	Rgds,
3
2
1

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 09:46:00 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Next question... (Written in "Taylor-ease")

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Next question... (Written in "Taylor-ease")
Overwhelming response in favor of a winch 1st, then lockers. (IF you can
call about 5 for winch, 1 for lockers an "overwhelming" response...)

Like the chewing gum commercial... "5 out of 6 offroaders recommend..."

So... Any used Warn 8274's out there??? Anyone???

?? Anyone use the "receiver hitch" type mount on a Land Rover??
   (To allow it to be mounted in front OR rear)

?? Anyone have a winch with single battery and a GENERATOR?
   (Dynamo, for you folks "across the pond".)

?? Nobody suggested another locker besides ARB, there MUST be others!!
   Come on! Hey you! Yeah, you! In the UK or Australia... (Hmmm...
   this is sounding offensive, not intended to be...) What else is
   available there? (Please provide a phone number and company name.)

And the "Taylor" question of the day... "If I hook the hook of a front
mounted winch to the rear end, can I shorten my wheel base? Say, turn
my "88" into an "80"?

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:18:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Next question... (Written in "Taylor-ease")

On Thu, 20 Jul 1995 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV wrote:

> ?? Anyone use the "receiver hitch" type mount on a Land Rover??
>    (To allow it to be mounted in front OR rear)

	Not here that I have ever seen...

> ?? Anyone have a winch with single battery and a GENERATOR?
>    (Dynamo, for you folks "across the pond".)

	Yup, a few people...  Not using electric winches though...

> And the "Taylor" question of the day... "If I hook the hook of a front
> mounted winch to the rear end, can I shorten my wheel base? Say, turn
> my "88" into an "80"?

	You can try... Seen it done by mistake... :-)

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:33:50 -0700
From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong)
Subject: re; 96 defenders...

To put the 96 Defender being pulled from the US market in perspective - the 
Defender may be approaching the end of it's production life PERIOD.

I've been told that the Defender takes the most labor to assemble yet is the 
least expensive Rover - shifting the Def production cap to Discos would 
appear to be the clever thing to do.  So the Def is the LOWEST margin 
product - fyi the disco takes the fewest labor hours to make - I don't know 
if Disco or Range Rover is higher margin though...

I assume Range Rover sales are okay and Disco sales are superb - the 
new/proposed rovers look like winners in the marketplace - catering to the 
mainstream of 4x4 wannabes...

my 2 cents

john

John Hong    Haiku Systems      Lotus Notes Business Partner
Consultant   jhong@haiku.com    408-249-8340

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:33:36 +0100
From: cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk (Charlie Wright)
Subject: Re: Next question... 

At 9:46am 20/7/95, DEBROWN@SRP.GOV wrote:

>?? Anyone have a winch with single battery and a GENERATOR?

I wouldn't expect it to get me very far.

>   (Dynamo, for you folks "across the pond".)

Many of us (esp. expats) can speak American too.

>And the "Taylor" question of the day... "If I hook the hook of a front
>mounted winch to the rear end, can I shorten my wheel base? Say, turn
>my "88" into an "80"?

It should still be an 88", just not linearly. And you may find the
hunchback effect decreases your approach and departure angles (and your
propshaft is too long)

Charlie

C. R. Wright                                    Dept. of Genetics
+44 (0)1223 333970 telephone                    Univ. of Cambridge
+44 (0)1223 333992 telefax                      Downing Street, Cambs.
cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk                        CB2 3EH, England

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 10:41 MST
From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II)
Subject: Re: Winch or Lockers?? Which one first?

   1. Should I get a Warn 8274 or ARB locker(s?) first?
    1b. Should I get F/R lockers? Or just rear?

If you get just a rear locker, I imagine the only thing you would need
a winch for is for pulling other people out who got stuck.  Especially
in Arizona.

James Howard
1972 SIII 88 "Ephraim"		Flagstaff, Arizona, USA

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 18:07:02 UT
From: Tony Dunmore <lightweight@msn.com>
Subject: re: Heated Screens (repost)

Apologies if this made it to the list, but it never appeared in my digest,

so I've chosen to resend it....

<I wrote:>

After a lot of deep thought 
about the cost, I bought 2 heated front 
screens from Craddocks for my 
lightweight at the Billing show last year.
I haven't regretted the decision 
at all. They work really well- the only 
time I notice their very fine wires 
is when I'm driving directly towards 
the sun, and even then the wires don't 
make visibility significantly 
worse. I was slightly surprised to discover 
Land Rover stickers on the
packaging for the screens - part number 348428 
made by Triplex here in
the UK. I don't know if they are supposed to be 
handed, but I have two
of this particular part and had no problems fitting 
them. At the edges
of the windscreen wires with eyelets are grounded to the 
windscreen 
frame, and at the central pillar two short blue wires appear 
with 
bullet connectors on them. Each screen takes approximately 9 amps of

current when heating, so I have to be a little careful when I've got

headlights, wipers, heater fan and screen heaters all on at once. When
my 
alternator expires, I will replace it with a higher current one!
On my 
recommendation, a friend has fitted the screens to his IIa - and
I've heard 
no complaints yet!

I still carry a cloth to wipe the side windows, the 
mirrors and the rear 
plastic screen. Anyone know of a heated rear screen 
for a softtop? ;-)

A.D.

(Tony Dunmore)

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From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Range Rovers lucasisms
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 11:21:51 PDT

 I have decide to get the R-Rover ready for the trek west.
First thing on the agenda was to see if I could get the ABS light
to stay off. It only comes on when the car is cold. Thinking that
I had a bad connection I crawled under the truck (yes even R-ROver owners
do this once in a while) and found one connector loose, the other never
was plug in correctly. It seems that they set pinched the connector
between the frame, and body during construction and instead of replacing
the connector, the just shoved the thing together. I also noticed
that the ABS sensor wire were chafing just above the rear diff. I
taped over the open casing, and attached it to the brake line.

While I was down there I also noticed that one of the suspension
bussing atached to the frame was shot. I could move it by hand.
I don't think they advertised rear steering as a Rover feature.
 
I still don't have the abs light so it stays off, but should get there
soon....

Russ Burns
91 Range ROver... I also would like a wench with knockers for my rovers...
94 D-90

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:24:32 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: re; 96 defenders...

John Hong wrote:

> I assume Range Rover sales are okay and Disco sales are superb - the 
> new/proposed rovers look like winners in the marketplace - catering to the 
> mainstream of 4x4 wannabes...

I still find this a little worrying.  It's very hard to cater to the 
whole market under the same Marque, as we saw in the U.S. with Honda/Acura.

In the UK, Acura's are just big Hondas (with H badges and all). They 
don't sell (partly their size). I've seen about 4 in my 4 years here.

Another example is the Cadillac 'Cimmaron'... what a disaster. It was as 
unreliable and poorly build as any of the other small GM cars, and it 
even looked cheap.  It did nothing but tarnish the Cadillac image.

I fear the mutant BMW 3-series may do the same thing. It's very odd.

Don't know what to think about a "baby Jaguar"... sounds dubious, unless 
they can make a new little impractical open-topped sportster... but that 
doesn't sound like the plan.

I worry that competing with the RAV4 and Samauri is a bad idea because Land
Rover may find that the Japanese will beat them at the 'cute and clever' 
(if useless) game or at least the price game (in the U.S. at least). If 
they have to add gadgets, bells and whistles AND cut the price.... where 
will the (slightly shaky anyway) build quality go?

Admittedly I said the Disco. would die in America, I was very wrong. 
However, I do think it rode in on the Range-Rover's coat-tails and is
staying on its own merit. That's great, but what will a 'cheap' Rover do
for/to the others if it's at the expense of practicality/durability? Just
thoughts. 

Charlie

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 14:33:27 -0500
From: "John B. Friedman" <johannes@scribes.english.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Discovery first impressions

I picked up my Discovery Coniston green 5 speed last night in  
Indianapolis and drove the 132 miles home from the dealer. Set off  
with 17 miles on the car and got 23.0 MPG in 5th gear in cruise  
control 52-62MPH on the free-way. Gas gauge hardly moved. So that was  
promising. The car seemed to be well detailed and everything worked.  
I bought a filter from the dealer for 12.00 to have as a spare. This  
filter sells at Rover North for 9.00 or case lot 8.00 and seems to  
have a duplicate in the Fram PH 8A style. I have cloned it to the  
Deutsch D 539.( 2 for 5.00)  I measured the two filters with a  
vernier caliper and except for overl all length(clone is longer) they  
look alike.But I will know for sure when I change the oil. Anyhow  
this one experience with the dealer made me fear going back there.  
But they were otherwise straight and pleasant and seem to have  
checked the car carefully.
	Driving impressions. This car is worlds better than the 90  
Trooper I replaced with it. The pedals as Consumer Report says are  
too close to the left and the dash controls are cryptic. It is in  
fact easier to reach and adjust the loudness on the radio knob than  
to press the vol up and vol. down button on the right of the  
instruments. But the lights are very good, the steering light and  
pleasant and the gear box very nice. Engine seemed silky and very  
torquey by comparison to Trooper. I found the driving feel of the car  
much nicer than the automatic equipped model I had test driven. The  
temp gauge stayed a bit below half way all the way home on a 80ish  
night and I did not find that the engine bay seemed excessively hot.
	The general fit and finish are very good though as some of  
you have remarked,there are huge door seams, especialy in the fit of  
the rear door. The driving position and visibility are excellent for  
a 6 foot man, though the fore to aft space for driver with seat all  
the way back is a little cramped. This is made up for by the cruise  
control and the shelf like door edges for leaning left arm and the  
cubby box for leaning the other arm.
	The one area that seemes to pose problems is the rear  
visbility, as several of you have mentioned. The mirror is dinky and  
with the sun shade down part of it is obscured. The side mirrors are  
good and full use of them needs to made as well as a good full glance  
to the right as cars coming up on the right can easily be in your  
blind spot. Indeed, virtually all below and outside the rear window  
is blind.
	The car was a pleasure to drive and has a flat low body sway(  
at least by comparison to the Trooper) ride which made me question  
the CR evaluation of its handling. I found it to have more steering  
feel than Grand Cherokee and to have far less wallow on freeway  
ramps(which I always took with the brakes on in Trooper) than my  
previous car
	People buying these cars will be happy to know that the Ford  
Cargo or Sterling key blank X170 for 6.00 will work fine. I have no  
idea what a Rover dealer would get for a spare key blank but would  
prefer not to find out.
	Next step is to change the oil and will have a longer report  
if anyone wants to write privately.
	Disturbing feature today. I was in traffic and may have  
bumped the diff. lever slightly in shifting as I suddenly found my  
self in neutral diff. a couple of times, either it is popping out or  
I don't have it in solidly. Anyone have any thoughts on this? 

	Otherwise very nice quiet car.You never forget it is a Rover,  
but it has come a long way since my 65 109 PU. 

			John Friedman

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 12:53:28 -0700
From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong)
Subject: Re: save the D90!

Dan wrote:

>  I was wondering if there are enough people out there who would be
>interested in seeing the D90 continue its life in the United States, and if
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>in the US?
>  I believe we can, but it is a difficult battle to go alone.

When I was on the Rover factory tour a couple of months ago (much thanks and 
credit to Jim Pappas, BSROA Pres, for arranging the best tour yet!)  We were 
shown both the new Range Rover line (4.0??) and the "classic" Range Rover 
line - the classic was supposed to die but demand was too strong so they 
kept a smaller line going to make em - the thing is the orders were there - 
not just the desire.  Letter campaigns and appeals won't do it - bucks talk 
- the rest walk or drive something else...

IMHO the only thing that will save the Defender in the US is a bunch of 
folks lining up at the dealers and saying "gimme one no matter what the 
price - I only want a defender - don't show me discos or range rovers.

I think the market forces have spoken!

Personally, I am glad to see the Defender stay a niche vehicle.

John "shiny paint is evil" Hong

'73 Siii 88!
IBEX on order!
Lotus Europa in the interim?
101 wannabe!

John Hong    Haiku Systems      Lotus Notes Business Partner
Consultant   jhong@haiku.com    408-249-8340

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 13:05:31 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: U.S.Specs and Defender

In message <Pine.3.89.9507201208.D20776-0100000@emr1.emr.ca> Dixon Kenner 
writes:

> The Queen of Canada,
> 	who happens to be the Queen of England et al. is still our
> 	head of state.

Oh well I guess I was wrong about Canada being an independent nation

I guess the British never found your people to be revolting ;*)

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:27:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: re; 96 defenders...

On the topic of our jolly insightful advice to Lode Lane and LRNA, I 
guess it behooves us to remember that we are not the ones who are risking 
millions of pounds or dollars on betting people will buy the product! To 
give the LRNA folks their due, they seem to have been successful so far 
at what they are doing, which they have to be to stay in business. I 
suppose the members of this list are not very representative of their 
average customers for new vehicles anyway! I just hope they don't lose 
the distinctive Land Rover emphasis on true off-road ability which 
separates the breed from the other brands; if they do they will have a 
much harder time competing on whatever other criteria are left, which are 
generally ones at which the competition is better.

Cheers

John Brabyn

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:33:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Francis J. Twarog" <ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Prices of Land Rovers in US

Is it me or have things gotten a bit out of hand in the way of 
second-hand Rovers.  Take for instance an ad in the most recent issue of 
"Dupont Registry" - a nicely restored military lightweight - price?  
$52,000!!! Or Atlantic British's most recent newsletter - two Defender 
110s for $48,000! What is the deal? Is this good news?  Maybe I'll run 
down to the local dealership and trade in my IIA 88" for the new Range 
Rover...

Frank

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From: Leland J Roys <roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Defender 90 winch
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 14:34:51 PDT

Hello,

To David Brown asking about the reciever hitch winch.

I am very happy with the setup I have for my '94 Defender 90. I bought a
Warn 9000Xi winch and use a Warn receiver hitch cradle to put the winch
in. I put a quick disconnect battery lead (one side on the winch and one
side on the battery, the cable fits nicely inside the battery compartment
under the seat).

This setup is very flexibly, I can leave the winch inside the back of the
truck until I need it, then easily attach it to the reciever and plug the
battery cables in. 

I like this better than the front mount, I had suspension problems with a
front mount system on a Totota-4 runner I had , the front end would drop
from the extra weight, and the disc brakes would burn because the weight
was out in the front of the brakes (At least I figured that). Now maybe
the Defender can better handle that, but I did not want to try.

Also, someone please correct me, but doesnt it seem to make more sense
to have a winch on the back than the front? When I get stuck it seems 
like I want to go backwards to get to the dry ground I came from, not
forward into more muck???, but anyway, if you put a front receiver in,
you could put the winch in the front or back, whatever you needed.

Leland Roys

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Prices of Land Rovers in US (fwd)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 17:48:56 EDT

> Is it me or have things gotten a bit out of hand in the way of 
> second-hand Rovers.  Take for instance an ad in the most recent issue of 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> down to the local dealership and trade in my IIA 88" for the new Range 
> Rover...

FWIW, I know of a D110 that was sold for $38K.  It had around 20K miles
on the clock.  Nothing wrong with it at all (except for the usual
rust developments......).  IMNSHO, it was a fair price for both the
buyer and the seller.

Anyone asking $48K should be shot on sight, or at the very least,
plunked head first into the nearest mud hole.

BUT, if you look further at the ABP newsletter, there are a few people
asking semi-reasonable prices for their *older* series rigs....not
everyone lives by the "screw thy neighbor" philosophy on life.

rd/nigel

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From: Leland J Roys <roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Diff dropping out
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 14:51:04 PDT

Hi,

To John Friedman regarding the diff popping into neutral on your new
Discovery.

This seems to be a common problem with brand new rovers, the exact same
thing happened to me driving home with my new defender-90, the diff 
dropped into neutral 3 times on the 15 mile drive home, I would pull over
off the freeway, put it back in and then drive on.

The good news is that when I got home, I put the truck into reverse and
put the clutch in and pulled the diff hard into high 4 weel drive (far 
right and down) after this, I never had the problem again (Now have
7,600 miles on it).

It looks like when new the diff just needs to get worked in, so try 
to make sure the diff is really locked into position.

Also, I noticed you said you drove from Indianapolis, I grew up in 
Anderson, Indiana about 30 miles north of indy, and drove home on I-69
every day! Have fun.

Leland Roys
Cupertino California
roys@cup.hp.com

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From: a-robw@microsoft.com
Subject: RE: Discovery first impressions
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 14:51:00 PDT

That was an encouraging report, but I didn't catch your name/e-mail? OBTW, I 
just ordered my disco today, Here in Seattle they have gobs (well at least 
20 or so) of them on the lot. As long as you want a leather interior, 
there's plenty of selection. (I, unfortunately, want that lovely cloth 
pattern :-) Thanks for the oil filter warning!

 -- Bob W.
a-robw@microsoft.com
 ----------
From: LRO-Owner
Subject: Discovery first impressions
Date: Thursday, July 20, 1995 2:33PM

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

I picked up my Discovery Coniston green 5 speed last night in
Indianapolis and drove the 132 miles home from the dealer. Set off

<stuff deleted>

        Disturbing feature today. I was in traffic and may have
bumped the diff. lever slightly in shifting as I suddenly found my
self in neutral diff. a couple of times, either it is popping out or
I don't have it in solidly. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

        Otherwise very nice quiet car.You never forget it is a Rover,
but it has come a long way since my 65 109 PU.

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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 18:36:19 PDT
From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
Subject: RE: Heated Series Windscreens 

The Land Rover heated windscreen kit (part no.601766) contains the following 
principal parts in addition to the two screens (34828):

142169 - Relay?
55780 - harness
555778 - 2 off switches
560409 - switch label r/h screen
560408 - switch label l/h screen
348689 - auxiliary panel for mounting switches; fits on left of IIA 
instrument panel
348542 - plate: haven't a clue what this is for!

There are also two leads to connect the switches to the screens and various 
fixings.

I hope the above may be of interest to anybody trying to replicate an 
"original" installation.  For a "working" installation it would seem that 
using two switches is desireable to reduce the load when only one screen is 
needed and to allow rapid heating by having the screens wired in parallel.  
The relay is a good idea.  I rewired my vehicle last year and have installed 
a seperately fused (30A) relay controlled primary circuit.  The relay is 
closed when the ignition is on and avoids overloading the ignition switch.  I 
shall power my screens from this source via switches and maybe further relays 
depending on the current drawn.

When I fit them, which probably won't be for a couple of months (we're 
experiencing something of aheatwave in the UK at the moment!), I'll let you 
know how I get on. 

-------------------------------------
Tony Chapman             E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
HAWTEC                   Tel:    01905 723200
Haswell House            Fax:    01905 613338 
St. Nicholas Street      Mobile: 0973 316835
Worcester
WR1 1UW

Date: 04/22/95
Time: 09:26:25

This message was sent by Chameleon 
-------------------------------------

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From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:16:01 GMT -0600
Subject:       RE: Heated Series Windscreens 

For those interested in the way to wire the heated windscreens, check the IIA 
shop manual. My '67 NADA 109 6cyl came w/heated windscreens. They had 
seperate switches and relays. The wiring diagram is in the manual. 
Thanks for the P.N.'s, I want to get another set.
Tom

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 18:36:20 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Limited slip not in a LR Series IIa.

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Limited slip not in a LR Series IIa.
Chris,

I'm afraid that a limited slip does NOT come with a Land Rover series
IIa. (I wish!) I've been trying to find some sort of locker, but the
ONLY one that I've found to sell (me to buy) here in the USA is ARB.
(Cost of around $1200 US installed to rear.)

I am hoping that someone, somewhere knows of another alternative, not
that the ARB's are bad, just expen$ive. But, it's only money, ya can't
take it with you... Still, I would like to diversify...

BTW, Anyone find a better price on a warn 8274 than $740 US. (Complete
with rollers and 150' cable.) Warn doesn't make a receiver hitch mount
for this winch, so it looks like I buy one for the front AND rear of
EACH vehicle?? NOT! I'm FAR too parsimonious!

 #=====#         #========#          -------,___
 |___|__\___     |___|__|__\___      |--' |  |  \_|_
 | _ |   |_ |}   | _ |  |   |_ |}    |  _ |--+--|_  |
 "(_)""""(_)"    "(_)"""""""(_)"    ||_/_\___|__/_\_|}
                                       (_)      (_)
 1971 "88" IIa   1970 "109" IIa     1994 Discovery

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

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From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: diff locks (again)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:34:26 +0930 (CST)

> ?? Nobody suggested another locker besides ARB, there MUST be others!!
>    Come on! Hey you! Yeah, you! In the UK or Australia... 

All this shouting is waking me up :-( Its all too much on a friday morning..

David look for J. MacNamara's advert in  LRO-Mag, I think they are listed on
the Roverweb too (Hi Ray)  There are others like Mal Story's Maxi-Drive  (Key
4X4 Qld) but I dont have addresses for either to hand..  Check the web sites
I'm sure I've seen details there on Diff locks.

Macca's do posidrive, lock-right, cabin and external activated selectable
lockers (like the Roberts/ARB unit).   The Maxi-Drive is a cabin operated
selectable locker.

-- 

  Daryl

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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:35:59 +0930
From: tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au (Tiffany Downing)
Subject: Prices for 2nd Hand Landies

>FWIW, I know of a D110 that was sold for $38K.  It had around 20K miles
>on the clock.  Nothing wrong with it at all (except for the usual
>rust developments......).  IMNSHO, it was a fair price for both the
>buyer and the seller.

Does anyone have a vague idea what $38K is an Australian Dollars.  We are 
selling our IIA and buying (hopefully) a County (Can't afford a Discovery 
yet)  :-(

Not that it helps us any but I was just interested in what sort of prices 
vehicles sell for in the States and what their equivalent price is over here.

We're planning to ask for $5,000 for our Series IIA, LWB, Ex-Army.  What 
sort of prices to they sell for over there?

TTFN  :-)

Tiffany Downing

********************************************
Co-ordinator, International Student Programs
TAFE South Australia, AUSTRALIA
Phone:   (61 8) 226 3202
Fax:     (61 8) 226 3655
E-Mail:  tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au
********************************************

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Subject: Re: Prices for 2nd Hand Landies 
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:47:37 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199507210208.VAA15779@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote:
  
> Does anyone have a vague idea what $38K is an Australian Dollars.  We are 
> selling our IIA and buying (hopefully) a County (Can't afford a Discovery 
> yet)  :-(

	No idea.  I think AUS$ are less than US$.  Discos here are about
$30k to $32k US. 

> We're planning to ask for $5,000 for our Series IIA, LWB, Ex-Army.  What 
> sort of prices to they sell for over there?

	If in good condition about  double that (in US$)

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88
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From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Limited slip not in a LR Series IIa.
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:36:01 +0930 (CST)

 
> I'm afraid that a limited slip does NOT come with a Land Rover series
> IIa. (I wish!) 

David MacNamara's OZ (see adds in LRO) does offer a PosiTrac  slipper for the
rover type diff.   ~$2100 AUD ISTR  (~$1K US)

I can find the address for them if you cant.  The cheapest way out would be
one of their externally operated lockers.  One axle has a bloody great bolt
in the end..  Remove the bolt for diff lock, replace if for normal diff
operation.. Crude but very effective...

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

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From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re:positrac price...
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:41:46 +0930 (CST)

Ooops converted from banana dollars to UK pounds.  should be ~$1600US....

oh well 

daryl

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Subject: Robb Report article
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 21:27:31 -0500

Does any one have a second copy oif the robb report with the lightweight 
in it from July issue, an original extra magazine that is/

Robin 

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

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Subject: Down under club
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 21:31:11 -0500

Cant be a member if you dont have a Land Rover or part of one in the 
biggest Oz club.......  Yuk.

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

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Subject: cache of toys
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 21:23:36 -0500

For those of you who like the reduced rovers, I got a call last night 
offering me a chaps collection of 42 toy Land Rovers, he asked if i 
wanted them. I know the chap and said sure , sight unseen over the phone.

Will be pickiing them up next month some time. I know he has some nice 
stuff in there, cant wait. Now I have to scape the readies together.

ttfn

Robin Craig

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

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From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Down under club
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 13:39:06 +0930 (CST)

> Cant be a member if you dont have a Land Rover or part of one in the 
> biggest Oz club.......  Yuk.
 
> --
> Robin

Robin we are not the bigest land-rover club just the biggest Land-rover only
club.  There are some historical reasons for requiring ownership..

 The reason for requiring ownership....  Rover never officially pulled 
 out of OZ (although Jag. Rover Aust. went bust leaving a lot of people 
 out of pocket)  But they lost a heap of market share and respect during 
 the time of BpL. One year pre disco only 20 something non military 
 land-rovers (110's) were sold  australia wide during the whole year.....
 As a consequence there are lots of "land-Rover" clubs where ownership of a
 solihull product is unheard of and even laughed at.  I asked about joining
"the land-rover owners club of the NT" in 1987  and was told that they had not
 had a land-rover in the club for 10 years and that I wouldnt be welcome on
 trips as "those old heaps are too slow".... 
 Clubs like the LRRSA  (and the new LRRV) are a response by true believers 
 to this situation.

Now whilst ownership is constitutionally required I'm sure that in your case
the committee would approve associate membership... Ownership is really just
meant to insure dedication to the breed... Not too many people would question
your dedication..
  Hey remember some of your toys probably cost more than a running (just)
land-rover over here. :-)

cheers 

-- 

  Daryl

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 23:03:24 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: 1 slab = 22.5 banana dollars 

   Daryl "Hard Case" Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>, defender of the
   lost realm, previously wrote:

TD:  If anyone is interested in joining, the fee is $45 Australian dollars 
MC:  How much is that in real money??
DW:  About two slabs........
TD:  Yeah!! You tell em Darryl.

   then later....

TD:  Does anyone have a vague idea what $38K is an Australian Dollars.  We
     are selling our IIA and buying (hopefully) a County. 

   Geeee Tiffany, according to Daryl, US$38K is about 2,314 slabs.

DW:  Ooops converted from banana dollars to UK pounds.  should be ~$1600US....

   Or as in another one of Daryl's obtuse examples, US$1,600 is about 2,192
   banana dollars (or whatever you use down there for currency these days).

---Michael "Smegging Foreign Rubbish" Carradine
   Somewhere on the Left Coast, USA.
   cs@crl.com

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From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: 1 slab is ~ $22.50 banana dollars!
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:24:37 +0930 (CST)

>    Daryl "Hard Case" Webb

More like Half case

>    Geeee Tiffany, according to Daryl, US$38K is about 2,314 slabs.

Crikey you mean if I give up drinking for   Uuum.. ~45 years the money I save
will buy me a new D110,, I'd never thought of it like that.
I wonder how it converts to Iced coffee.....

Of course this doesnt take into account the fact that 1 slab of beer will
always "buy" more than and equivalent amount of cash...

>  US$1,600 is about 2,192 banana dollars (or whatever you use down there for
currency these days). 

Sorry banana dollar is one of those "obtuse" ( as opposed to equilateral I
spose (g)) local references to a rather infamous "banana replublic" speech by
ex-treasurer, now prime minister Paul (I like old french clocks) Keating.

 
> ---Michael "Smegging Foreign Rubbish" Carradine
  Aka Mike of Mog ???

Oh now Mike dont be like that.  Hey do you know that the next generation
OZ military GP vehicle the "foxhound" is likely to be based on a Unimog...

True.  
I bet that cheers you up...   If I can find any details I'll let you know.

Hey Its friday, Its raining, my land-rover is sick and I left my nomex at
home, Be nice to me :-) 
-- 

  Daryl

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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:42:54 +0930
From: tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au (Tiffany Downing)
Subject: Iced Coffee

Well you know how the saying goes Darryl...

It's a Farmers Union Iced Coffee or its Nothing!!!

:-)

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