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From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Removing steering dampers
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:00:29 UNDEFINED

>[not one ton].  
>Presumably they didn't have dampers fitted as standard?

No. So you should be fine with that. Not manufacturers standard equipment, so 
no problem. Of course you are obliged to tell your insurance company when you 
DO have it fitted or they can invalidate your insurance and refuse to pay cos 
you have violated the terms of your policy by not informing them of a change 
to the vehicle. In case anyone thinks I am overstating this, there are a 
couple of instances where bikers have had their insurance invalidated when 
they claimed after being run into by cars cos they didnt tell the company 
about adding STICKERS!!!!!!!!

>to the Big Trip down to South Africa.  I do prefer driving off road
>with a damper fitted - cuts down on shoulder ache.

More importantly, you dont break your thumbs with teh kickback from trees or 
large rocks. I had just got my Landrover, and was parked on the beach having a 
brew when this opentop 88 pulled up with a hippy driving, and the back full of 
bimbos. I nearly fell off the roof laughing when he got out and BOTH thumbs 
were heavily bandaged......

P.S. I am also going to post this reply to  the list since the insurance 
considerations are important. 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Removing steering dampers from 90s/110s
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:07:23 UNDEFINED

> The steering might be lighter and more sensitive without a damper.  May I
> suggest however that the rest of the steering system to some degree will
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> spurious minor shocks will be eliminated and major movement will be
> translated to the steering wheel --on road and off highway.

The damper is predominently aimed at preventing teh yuppie buyers from 
breaking their silly little thumbs while climbing the kerb to park at Harrods. 
It is not primarily a road toool. The Series vehicles didnt have one........

> On-highway, same thing, smooth _control_ is more important at high speed.

I find steering control on-road FAR better without teh damper since I can 
apply steering inputs without fighting a huge dashpot. The steering also 
doesnt center properly with a damper, so you are constantly having to correct 
for it on a straight road. Complete bloody nuisance.

And parking can be done with one finger instead of having to use low ratio to 
allow the time to heave the steering round against the bloody damper.

I >Hate< my damper for on-road use.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:52:14 EDT
From: LTSR48A@prodigy.com (MR JEFFREY BABUKA)
Subject: help in locating 71 series IIa springs and bulkhead

-- [ From: JEFFREY BABUKA * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --

i am a new subscriber to the lro mailing list and also a new owner of a
1971 series IIa rover which is in much need of  front and rear springs
and possibly a rebuilt bulkhead.  i reside in  upstate ny usa and would
appreciate any help.

thank you 
jeff
>.

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re:Steering Dampers and series Vehicles.
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:21:32 +0930 (CST)

Andy writes:

> It is not primarily a road toool. The Series vehicles didnt have one........

I beg to differ,  Early series vehicles didnt have one, later ones did.  My
67 109 6cyl had a factory fitted steering damper that looked as if it was
aftermarket.  Great big clamps and brackets bolted on to things.  Had a hard
time finding a replacement damper as aftermarket "land-rover" didnt fit.
turned out to be the same as a Nissan G60.
I dont remember seeing a series III without one....

Perhaps it all changed when the swivel pins changed from the cones to railko
bushes with less pre-load.

>  The steering also doesnt center properly with a damper, 
> so you are constantly having to correct for it on a straight road.

If my swivel preload is too high I find this, damper or none doesnt change
it.  If my swivels are set right then it self centres fine even with a
"H/duty" Monroe damper.  (hey its bright yellow it must be good :-)

As I understand it the steering damper really only comes into its own with
severe road shocks.  It wont stop broken thumbs, but it does stop the
steering gear slamming straight to full lock.

For "road shimmy" and small bump kickback the preload of the swivels appears
to be much more critical than the damper, at least in my experience.

Each to their own I 'spose, but i would go too far without my steering
damper.

cheers
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: 21 Apr 95 07:09:45 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Translation

>> Is there a Englich-German dictionary for Landrovers available in the
>> net?

>Not that I am aware of on the 'Net but CompuServe has a machine translation ...
> ...snip...

Yeah, tried that out recently, almost busted a gut laughing when reading the
results! Sounds like straight out of Monty Python ("my Hovercraft is full of
eels" - "kindly fondle my bum")...  Maybe I'll copy a short posting from the
digest and put it through the machine translation twice (into foreign language
and the result back into english), just for a scream. Believe me, the bandwidth
is worth it!

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: 21 Apr 95 07:10:27 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Overseas Parts

Dixon Kenner replied to JCassidyiv@aol.com :

>> I know that this question has probably been posed before, but how do I go
>> about ordering parts for my series truck from Britain correctly?

>.       Merseyside has a good track record with members of the Ottawa
>        Valley club.  They replace stuff promptly, and generally seem to
>        have their act together.

I'll confirm that. Ok, they're not exactly a bargain, but I placed 4 orders
with them (by fax) so far, one containing dozens of very special and minute
rare parts, and shipment was always prompt, complete and correct. If there
were any doubts they would fax back and ask for more instructions in a matter
of minutes, in one case on a Sunday afternoon! Once I unwittingly ordered
redundant fixings that were already contained in an assembly unit I had
requested in the same order. A few hours later they faxed back, pointing
this out to me and saying that unless instructed otherwise they would omit
those parts from the order, assuming that this was in my interest.
*And*, they naturally honor all major credit cards. 'Good chaps', I say.

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: 21 Apr 95 07:11:15 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Query: Buying a used Range Rover

> 1) Where are likely corrosion spots?

No.1 candidate for rust is the rear upper tailgate. If the car was driven
regularly in salty winter conditions or kept somewhere by the sea the tailgate
frame is likely to disintegrate after as little as 4 years, pre-1989 models
being more susceptible to this than the more recent ones.
Another 'hot spot' are the front aluminum fender - to - steel bodyshell
fixings. The age-old problem: naked aluminum bolted directly to steel with
poorly galvanized steel bolts. Dumb, really. The lower part of the radiator
is also worth looking at.

> 3) How many miles can you expect to get from the V8 before a major rebuild?
> (given maintenance per owner's manual)

*IF* maintenance was observed religiously (I surmise it rarely is) and the PO
didn't have a habit of speeding full-throttle (the one thing the V8 dislikes)
an injected Rover (ex-Buick) V8 can still run impeccably after 150,000 miles.
In the real world, 80,000 miles might be a limit after which first problems
can be expected to occur, first candidates being the servo and/or water
pump. As for the major rebuild, the engine will decide and unmistakeably
let you know when the time is there (right, Bill?)

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 13:28:44 BST
From: u92drw@ecs.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Power Curve for 2.25 petrol

hello lro team... I saw your address on the 'net today in the 4x4 newsgroup 
and wondered if you could help me.

I've got a 1962 SWB SIIA with a 2.25 petrol engine with what I guess must be 
nigh on 200K on the clock (96K seems a bit low for that age). I'm considering 
putting some Range Rover diffs on to get a few more mpg out of it, but would 
like to know what power the engine delivers at different speeds (so I can work 
out if [putting the diffs on is a good move or not)

Also, as I'm planning to get an unleaded head for it, do you know if the engine 
could cope with a better compression ratio that the 7:1 I've got at the moment? 
How would that affect the power output?

Thanks for anything you can tell me. Sorry I've burst in with all guns blazing 
so-to-speak.

Dan

**********************************************************************
*                               *                                    *
*   Dan Whiley                  *      If you're going to do         *
*   Engineering Department      *         something, do it           *
*   Oxford University           *              properly              *
*                                                                    *
**********************************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Steve Methley" <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:48:27 +0100
Subject: Re: Power Curve for 2.25 petrol

Dan says:

>I've got a 1962 SWB SIIA with a 2.25 petrol engine with what I guess must be
nigh on 200K on the clock (96K seems a bit low for that age). I'm considering
>putting some Range Rover diffs on to get a few more mpg out of
it......

Going from the stock 4.7's to RR 3.54's will seriously overgear you on
road:  Off road will be well nigh useless to boot.  Either go with an
o/d (twice the price of RR diffs s/h I know) or see this month's LRW
where they talk about 4.3 Kam diffs in a Lightweight - or add another
litre and four more cylinders! ;-)
--

Best Regards,
Steve.

------------------------------

From: Rick Snyder <snyderr@hpanvs.an.hp.com>
Subject: Sleeping in a Land Rover
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 9:08:11 EDT

Concerning sleeping in a Land Rover --

I had very comfortable results from constructing a wide
hammock which spanned front-to-back on the inside of my
Series IIA 88" - comfortably slept two people.  One advantage
of the hammock is that it stows away very well.

The hammock was constructed from canvas.  The ends of the 
hammock were full width, and were folded and stitched to 
form a tubes where a closet-pole fit through (one at each end).

The closet poles were supported from ring-and-eyebolts which 
where themselves attached to the interior of the cab.  At the
front of the cab those eyebolts went through the holes which 
are used to bolt the roof of the cab to the top of the wind-
screen (just one on each side of the wind-screen).

At the back of the cab I drilled holes on either side of the
back of the cab above the back-facing windows.

Getting in and out of the hammock was always a bit trickey, but
we developed a good technique, and always had a few laughs along
the way.

This arrangment also allowed my two dogs to sleep on 
the two rear folding seats while we were in the hammock.

Rick Snyder

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re[2]: some questions 
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:33:54 -0400
From: "Jeff Young" <young@mci.net>

i just thought it was a great opportunity to brush up on my
german, which is very rusty.  :)

Jeff Young
young@mci.net

> Return-Path: LRO-Owner@uk.stratus.com
> Received: from transfer.stratus.com (transfer.stratus.com [134.111.1.10]) by ns.mci.net (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA04621 for <young@mci.net>; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:27:42 -0400
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 55 lines)]
> Servus,
> Stefan - auch aus der Naehe (relativ)

------------------------------

From: Robert Smith <R.S.Smith@uel.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:35:58 GMT
Subject: W3 pages in uk

Hello all,
I have been lurking for about a month or two on this maiingl list
and I cannot seem to find a WWW site for Landrover based infomation
inside the UK, Is there one? or am I driving up the wrong tree?

If there isnt one, or even if there is... I am intrested in 
developing a collection of pages to landrover infomation and alike,
What would you like to see in there? what would make you intrested?
I do have my own idears, but I think they could be a bit limited in 
scope and knowledge on certain areas

thanks for reading this, and Email me to tell me your thoughts

Rob Smith
University of East London
Series III LWB (ex MOD)

 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:06:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re:Steering Dampers and series Vehicles.

On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Daryl Webb wrote:

> > It is not primarily a road toool. The Series vehicles didnt have one........
> I beg to differ,  Early series vehicles didnt have one, later ones did.  My
> 67 109 6cyl had a factory fitted steering damper that looked as if it was
> aftermarket. ... I dont remember seeing a series III without one....

	Never seen a Land Rover here with a factory damper in place.  I
	have seen one with an aftermarket installed, but once it was
	through destroying the tie rod ends was quickly removed.  Just
	an observation from central Canada...

	Rgds

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:23:58 GMT -0600
Subject:       Bleeding brakes

Chris Pitts writes:
>How do you bleed the brakes on a Landie without going insane?

I don't remember if he said he changed them, but the flex lines could 
be contributing to the problem. As they've aged (and especially if  non-Girling 
fluid was ever used) they may be swollen. What happens is that 
when you apply the brakes the pressure causes the flex lines to 
expand rather than the full pressure going to the wheel cyl.
Also, as I recall, Rover recommends backing off the adjusters as far 
as they will go before bleeding anad then readjusting them when you're 
done.
Lastly, if it's the CB type master, jacking up the front end will 
help expell air trapped in the master cyl. Good luck.

Tom Rowe
University of Wisconsin			
Madison, WI			Four wheel drive allows you to get
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu	stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:04:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: W3 pages in uk

On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Robert Smith wrote:

> I have been lurking for about a month or two on this maiingl list
> and I cannot seem to find a WWW site for Landrover based infomation
> inside the UK, Is there one? or am I driving up the wrong tree?

	The main LRO web page is in the USA:  
		www.missouri.edu:80/roverweb

	There is a second good web site at: 
		www.cs.monash.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover

	Both sites like to each other and to other minor sites with Land
	Rover information or pictures.

	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:09:41 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re:Steering Dampers and series Vehicles.

On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Dixon Kenner wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Daryl Webb wrote:
> > 67 109 6cyl had a factory fitted steering damper that looked as if it was
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> > aftermarket. ... I dont remember seeing a series III without one....
> 	Never seen a Land Rover here with a factory damper in place.  I
Neither my '70 nor '66 109's have dampers, and the '66 is very original.

Charlie

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Query: Buying a used Range Rover 
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:23:32 -0400
From: "Jeff Young" <young@mci.net>

I'm in the same spot, looking for a used RR.  and i've 
found one.  problem is that my wife found a brand new
suburban for the same price.  

the rover:  '93 County LWB 24k miles

the Suburban:  '95 GMC SLT (means it's loaded) 70 miles

honestly the vehicles have similar features... OK the suburban
doesn't "pump-up" when you turn it on :-)

I've been dreaming about a LR product for years.  I'd 
be just as happy buying the '65 doormobile in the 
washington post this weekend.  I don't really know
if I was looking for such an "upscale" landrover 
product as the County LWB.

but i can't help but feel that if i let my wife buy the 
suburban, we'll be sorry five years down the road when
major systems start to fail.  My gut feeling is that
we'll have less trouble in five years with the rover
even though it will be 7 years old at the time.

my wife wants something big, granted the only thing
the suburban has over the rover is seating for 9.

she's also worried about the "snob factor"

We've got two kids, one dog.  We'll probably end up
with four kids and a couple/three dogs at any one time.
we could do some towing (horse trailer).

what do i do? (ie. which vehicle?) any RR gotcha's?

Jeff Young
young@mci.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 08:47:33 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)

I have a couple of questions the answers to which probably everyone else
knows!:

1. Why do most of the messages these days on the list start with the
sentence about "for subscription information" etc?

2. Is lro@team.net still the right place to post messages? I've done one
or two recently which received no response, and didn't know whether it was due
to the esoteric nature of the questions or the fact that I was sending them
to nowhere!

Cheers

John Brabyn
Mill Valley, Ca
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:58:56 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Winch Break-in

Granny Goose gets 'em loose...

I certainly don't know any thing about winching, having never used one, but 
would it make sense to pick up a pully and attach that to the Blazer, and 
run the winch cable through it back to your vehicle?  Like this...

_                                                          _
 |---------------------------->>-----------------------_  |
_|*____________________________________________________O)=|_

Or would this cut your pulling power in half?  Even so, if your pulling 
power with most of the cable on the spool is only 9000#, and doubling it 
back gives you 6000#, but without mucking up your cable, would that be 
worth trying first?

P.S., great story, and bummer about your cable!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

From: JOHN M MELHUISH <WSRJMM@cardiff.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:18:19 GMT
Subject: Off Road Event S Wales. APR

If Anybody is interested

Glamorgan Off Road Club are holding a promotional day for the club 

April 30 Sunday

All Classes Trial      9.00 am RAC rules and Regs stlg15 with temp 
membership
Scenic drive with good views of welsh valleys from 10.30 am stlg10

Site
Off the A4063 at Caerau above Maesteg  S. Wales.  5 miles north of 
Junction 36 M4
Put Promotional in subject heading.
Everybody and all makes welcome.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 09:44:02 PDT
From: johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu)
Subject: Test Post - Disregard

I have recently not been able to post or sometimes to receive, hence this 
test. See, you should have disregarded! :-)

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Winch Break-in 
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:55:18 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Roger Sonasohn wrote:

> I certainly don't know any thing about winching, having never used one, but 
> would it make sense to pick up a pully and attach that to the Blazer, and 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> _|*____________________________________________________O)=|_
> Or would this cut your pulling power in half?  

	This would double your pulling power, but halve the speed that
you can pull.

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Winch Break-in 
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:59:52 -0400
From: "Jeff Young" <young@mci.net>

this doubles your pulling power, but also doubles the work on
the winch, right.  you pull twice as far.  pulleys are a 
mechanical advantage - if i remember my statics class that's
what a block and tackle are all about, lifting large loads with
little power.

Jeff Young
young@mci.net

> Return-Path: LRO-Owner@uk.stratus.com
> Received: from transfer.stratus.com (transfer.stratus.com [134.111.1.10]) by ns.mci.net (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17167 for <young@mci.net>; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:58:11 -0400
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 42 lines)]
> sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
> San Francisco, California

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Winch Break-in
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 11:19:05 PDT

Actually this would double your pulling power.
Things to remember about winching
1: use as much cable as possible. A drum winch is most effective
   when the cable is being would on a smaller diameter.
2: always leave at 5 wraps around the spool. This will insure
   that you don,t pull the cable off the drum.
3: When done winching, rewind the cable under a 1000lbs load.
   This will help the cable kinks when it is really being used.
4: Be careful. do not stand near a taunt cable. Think about what
   would happen if the cable broke, of the attached point let go.

Russ
91 R-Rover
94 d-90
> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 29 lines)]
> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
> San Francisco, California

------------------------------

From: Tiyen Miller <MILLERTD@psycho1.bham.ac.uk>
Date:         21 Apr 95 19:21:11 GMT
Subject:      Re: Winch Break-in 

> this doubles your pulling power, but also doubles the work on
> the winch, right.  you pull twice as far.  pulleys are a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> Jeff Young
> young@mci.net
Hmm, actually I think the load on the winch would be the same wether
or not the cable's doubled back with a block or not providing that
it's pulling on the same object.

Without a pully, the winch pulls at twice the rate, but with half the
strength as it would with a pully.  Either way, it winds up (bad pun)
doing the same amount of work.  (let me apologize in advance for my
doubtless bungling of physics terminology--but you get the idea...)

Well, someone's bound to explain this simple bit of physics with
authority at some point anyway, but there's my stab... :)

    Laters,
    Ty
--

   ______ __/__  __/ ____ ________
  ________ /   /  / / / /________      Tiyen D. Miller
 ________ (__ (__/ / / /________       millertd@psycho1.bham.ac.uk

...And so you say, "ok, the bridge or someplace--later."

------------------------------

Date: 21 Apr 95 14:38:47 EDT
From: ritter mark c <70472.1130@compuserve.com>
Subject: Atlanta club meeting

The newly formed and very informal Atlanta Land Rover club had a very successful
meeting last night. In attendance were 3 D-90s, 1 D-110, 1 '92RR, 2 S11 109's,
2S111 88's and my 94 Disco. One of the 90's was a factory metal hardtop, an
another sported an ARB winchbumper and front and rear airlockers. We did some
ride planning and talked about the upcoming British Car Day at Chateau Elan in
north GA. For any interested LR owners in the area please contact me at
404-643-9504. Our meeting are every third Thursday at Sonny's BBQ on Alpharetta
highway between Roswell and Alpharetta.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:51:07 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Test Post

John Y. Liu <johnliu@lainet.com> writes:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

>I have recently not been able to post or sometimes to receive, hence this 
 test. See, you should have disregarded! :-)

 Depending in his mood, MajorDomo does not echo messages by the sender...
 I should say, it varies sporatically, sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I've
 sent stuff to lro@team.net and had others reply within the hour (I'm on
 real-time!) without seeing my own post.  Then at other times it echos my
 message to me.  Anyway, seeing or not seeing your own 'test' message is
 not conclusive proof that he's on the job!

 Michael Carradine    Carradine Studios                   Tel.510-254-3324
 Architect            Architecture Development Planning   Pgr.510-945-5000
 NCARB RIBA           PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA           cs@crl.com

 Unimog 4x4 WWW page at http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re:Steering Dampers and series Vehicles.
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 15:39:40 EDT

> For "road shimmy" and small bump kickback the preload of the swivels appears
> to be much more critical than the damper, at least in my experience.

Here, here.  Never got rid of mine (Nigel's) 'til we went the Railco
bush route.....no damper required.

rd/nigel

Bored waiting to run a column.

------------------------------

Subject: Pacific Northwest Team Trophy Challenge
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:42:04 -0700
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

I haven't gotten any responses to this yet so I'm wondering if 
it got lost when Majordomo was sick, soooo 
An invitation to all of you who are up for it.

The 1st Annual Pacific Northwest Team Trophy Challenge 
	      May 20th and 21st, 1995. 

	Two Days - Two 4x4's - Forty Teams

Test your off road skills in a competetive event against others. 
This two day "Team" event should give you a chance to see how well
prepared both you and your 4x4's are.

Day 1- Teams will be departing at intervals immediately following 
the 9:00 AM drivers meeting. Order of departure will be determined
by a drawing of pre-registered entries on the day before. All
late entries will follow in the order of receipt.
	You will be require to complete two, appoximately 40 mile
courses, within a twelve hour period. Each course will have a
variety of tasks to perform along the way. You will encounter
vehicle obstacle courses, possibly a balance, or Trials section,
or winching situation where only one winch can be used for both
vehicles. You need to be able to read a Topo map and compass. At
times, the passenger/navigator may be required to follow a short
map-compass route on foot and meet back up down the road. This
first days event will be the most challenging terrain wise. If
the rain visits, you will be winching more than once.

Day 2- Time Distance Ralley with Tulip style orienteering chart.
This course will be challenging in other ways. Teams will leave
at intervals as determined by random drawing. Following the route
chart, you will follow an unmarked course, trying to maintain set
speeds between checkpoints.
	The winning team will have the best combined score from
both days activities. Even if you are not the competitive type,
this would be a great opportunity to test your skills in a
variety of conditions and activities.

- - ----NOTE------

This is a limited entry event. We will be accepting a maximum of
only forty teams of two vehicles each. Each vehicle will be
require to pass a minimum inspection and safety requirements
outlined below.

What is a Team?

A team will consist of Two vehicles which shall have a driver for
each and at least one navigator, but no more than four people
total for the two vehicles.

Vehicle Requirements

- - --All entries are to be street legal and licensed in their
  respective states. ORV stickers will be needed where applicable.
- - --All vehicles must carry road legal liability insurance.
- - --Hard tops or roll bars are required
- - --One vehicle must have a working winch with the cable in good
  condition
- - --All vehicles must carry a fire extinguisher, shovel, and axe.
- - --Our safety inspectors will have final say as to vehicle
elegibility
- - --Although we have no size restrictions at this time, keep in
mind that some places are very tight. You will be routed around
some places if you have a full sized truck or other.

Where to go

Go east on hwy 26 out of Portland, Or., and take the hwy 6 exit
towards Tillamook. The Campground is 3/4 mile west of Lee's Camp,
on the right. The only facilities at camp will be port-a-potties.
Gas is available 10 miles back at the BP station you passed or
down the road in Tillamook.

Deadlines 

Entry forms received before May 13th are $50.00 per vehicle.
After that date, please do not mail. Day of event registration
$60.00, if we have not reached our limit of forty teams. Refunds
will be given up to May 13th.

What do you get!

Hopefully, one fantastic weekend. As a minimum, we will provide a
great lunch on Sunday, while we tabulate scores, a Dash Plaque,
and a chance to do some top notch off roading. Great prizes will
be awarded to the top finishers.

This event is kind of unique for the US, we don't have many competition
style 4wd events, unlike Europe and the UK with their ARC events going on
seemingly every weekend somewhere.
If you would like to participate, email me direct for an entry
form. This is your chance to prove that Land Rovers are the
supreme 4wd vehicle.

rgds
Mike Fredette
mfredett@ichips.intel.com
D90, Portland, Or.

------- End of Forwarded Message

------------------------------

Date: 22 Apr 95 15:07:10 EDT
From: "Anthony J. Bonanno" <75034.3062@compuserve.com>
Subject: Rancho shocks for LR IIA 88

Michael,

Just a quick note to let you know that I installed the Rancho Shocks two nights
ago on my 71 IIA 88.  They fit perfectly and it appears that the ride and
handling have improved considerably.  These were the Series 5000 shocks that you
recommended.   For others who may be reading this, the Rancho part numbers were
5163 for the front and 5169 for the rear.  I special ordered them through Pep
Boys here in Santa Fe and they charged me 42.95 each plus tax.  Sounds like I
saved about $10.00 per shock compared to some other vendors I've heard about.
I didn't order the Rancho Steering Stabilizer, although they advised me that the
complete kit, part number 97435, would be approx. $ 55.00.  I had already
installed a NAPA SC-2912 steering stabilizer shock (approx. $ 33.00 through
local NAPA parts outlet).  The NAPA stabilizer appears to be an economical
replacement for folks who already have the bracket, etc. in place from an earler
installation as # SC-2912 didn't come with a bracket - just bushings, nuts, and
shock.  I suspect there is a complete kit version available..

All for now,

Tony Bonanno

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Steering Dampers et al..
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:33:09 +0930 (CST)

I wrote:
> > I beg to differ,  Early series vehicles didnt have one, later ones did.  My
> > 67 109 6cyl had a factory fitted steering damper that looked as if it was
> > aftermarket. ... I dont remember seeing a series III without one....

Dixon replies:
> 	Never seen a Land Rover here with a factory damper in place.  I
> 	have seen one with an aftermarket installed, but once it was
> 	through destroying the tie rod ends was quickly removed.  Just
> 	an observation from central Canada...

It would appear that this may be a geographical thing doesnt it.  

I presume that none of your rovers have a dirty great mount for the steering
damper as part of the relay to swivel steering rod.    Hey I'll find out the
part number and you can ask Lanny at rovers north to get some for you :-) 
(wouldnt this be fun with Taylor!)

cheers

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 12:48:48 EST
From: "Lapa, Hank" <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com>
Subject: Birmabright

     All,
     
     Question about the aluminum skin, trade name Birmabright, of L-Rs:  Is 
     this alloy sheet of consistent composition throughout its 
     cross-section, or is there a thin pure/near-pure aluminum layer on one 
     or both faces, as with American "Alclad?"  The difference, of course, 
     is profound when considering mechanical methods of old paint removal, 
     unless one is fortunate enough to have inexpensive access to processes 
     using plastic blast media, frozen CO2, xenon flashlamp, etc.  
     
     Another Birmabright question:  Is the skin of modern L-Rs the same 
     Birmabright as on my old Series car?  If different, how?
     
     Lastly, Birmabright trivia:  Some of the specialty fasteners used in 
     the construction of RMS Queen Mary were made of Birmabright, this from 
     a 1930s advert I recently saw offered in a catalog.  Perhaps I should 
     have purchased this ocean liner collectible as a pseudo-Land-Rover 
     collectable!
     
     Hank

------------------------------

Subject: winching / anchoring
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 95 13:44:38 -0500

Somebody the other day was asking about how to anchor a vehicle that had 
a front mounted winch from the rear.

The question was asked by a D90 owner if i remember correctly.

My first comment is that anyone with current spec LR products should be 
using JATE rings as standard in placement of the fl;imsy little tabs that 
are bolted to the frames. 

I beleive that the part number is RRC3237 and they should be fitted front 
and rear in pairs.

If you are going to anchor a winch vehicle from the rear it is far and a 
way better that you make up a bridle to attach to each JATE ring at the 
rear and meet the main cable / chain about 10 / 15 feet behind your 
vehicle. This has the effect of reducing the effect of the load wanting 
to bring your two frame rails together, and distributes the load evenly 
on the frame.

Of not e here is that caution should be exercised when hooking up like 
this as you should get the load, the winch vehcile and the anchor ppoint 
in a straight line. If you dont the sideways forces can move your vehcile 
into a straight line.

Most Rover recoveries are done with a flurry of action and lots of speak 
and shout and bravado. Good recoevry is planned, disccussed, controled 
and executed.

I have had quite some experience in seeing good recoevry techniques as 
taught in the forces and some really shabby and downright dangerous 
stunts done by civiies. 

Take the time before getting stuck to understand the limits of the 
equipment you have and how best to use it. It is always a bad sign when 
you see the winch operator removing the remote cable from the factory 
shrink wrap in the forest!! Seen it, he'd never used it before.

A winch should really come with some hands on intruction when you buy 
one.

If you need some good reference for winching and recovery you cant go 
wrong by ordering The second edition of The Land Rover Experience by Tom 
Sheppard from your local Land Rover dealler. The part number is stc8755 
and IS AVAILABLE IN NORTH AMERICA contrary to what most dealers say!!

Remember, when done properly winching takes time but cause no damage to 
vehciles and people. Shoddy winching / recovery jobs go wrong very 
quickly and can kill very easily. Be smart, do it properly.

rgds

Robin Craig

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Subject: Land Rovers for sale
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 95 14:10:25 -0500

I have two D90 Britains toys for sale.

Both are boxed and in just about mint condition.

They are getting in the way right now and are surplu to my needs.

Offers please to me by email direct

rgds

Robin Craig

oops
On is yellow British Telecom, the other is the green / crean farm one

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

From: Spenny@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:15:43 -0400
Subject: ignition diagram needed

does anyone have a diagram for the leads to the ignition/key switch for late
2A? 

these arent the barrel type as on the early IIA.
none of the diagrams show the key switch

my problem is that the ignition will only start the engine when
i let go of the key, not when i turn it to the right, only after i turn it to
the right and then release it, and it moves back to the left.

Rgds...
Spenny

Spencer K. C. Norcross                               Spenny@aol.com
Haverhill, Mass. USA                                   508-521-4093
===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--===
                     1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine
           Now with most of the Federally requred electrics!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:12:40 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: How To's

Peter has a good idea...
> Is there a Englich-German dictionary for Landrovers available in the net? 
> (I heared about a printed dictonary for saylors: Each item is given in 
>  seven or so languages)

Was someone compiling an English-American glossary?  (Or was that on 
Compuserve?)  If so, perhaps we could add German, French, whatever other 
languages are represented here.  It would be an invaluable reference for 
linguistically challenged overlanders!  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

From: JDolan2109@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 06:52:35 -0400
Subject: S IIA Liftgate: Install

Have all the parts, and wish to put liftgate on a IIA hardtop. My question(s)
pertain to the headliner and the rear valence (same material as headliner).
It is obvious that this piece above the door opening must be removed. 
1) Must headliner be removed first? I understand it is glued in place, and I
wonder about it's integrity after removal. Is it re-installable?
2) Can rear valence piece be removed (I would accept not intact, i.e.
'cut-out', if necessary), without removing headliner?
3) Will the hinge mechanism interfere with the headliner after installation?
If this is the case, then any hints about maybe avoiding or minimising this?

The ideal end result would be liftgate and headliner, both. With Vermont
winters here, I wish to preserve any insulating qualities that exist. And the
current headliner has no rips.
Thanx for any advice.
See 'ya on the old road...
Jim  '61 88" SW / OD, 1 Bbl weber & 16's   (econobox?)
LR...quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:35:43 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rover Rally

As neither Rovers North nor Atlantic British are having events this year, 
it's back by popular demand:

             -->  The Mid-Atlantic Land Rover Rally   <--

This year, it'll be the weekend of September 30 - October 1 at the same site 
as last year - Mike and Nancy McCaig's Penlan Farm in Buckingham County, 
Virginia.  As with last year, there will be lots of prizes and goodies, plus 
you are *guaranteed* to have a good time.  (Just ask anyone who was there 
last year.)

This year, virtually the entire event will be on site.  Saturday will have 
the teeter-totter, blindfold obstacle course, and other devilish tasks for 
the amusement of the spectators and consternation of the participants.  
Sunday afternoon, we have *rented an antique train*, (albeit a 1954 GM 
diesel locomotive) for a trip down to the James River.  The Buckingham 
Branch Railroad, 1/4 mile away, is well-known for its autum leaf excursions; 
we plan on running a few of Solihulls' finest up on flatcars and loading the 
assembled masses/kegs onto the open carriages for the trip.  There will be a 
catered meal (modest cost, probably $10 like last year) down by the river 
with a return to the site for a bonfire and bluegrass music.

Sunday will be the trials course day, but this year with a twist.  You've 
heard of the Iron-Man triathlon, right?  Rather than the simple UK-style RTV 
trial, we are going to have the ALUMINUM MAN TRIATHLON (TM) - or should that 
be "Aluminium Man"?  Anyway, participants will navigate a trials course, but 
with time penalties for touched canes; they will also shoot a brace of clay 
pigeons with a 12 guage (my Remington, if you don't prefer your own shotgun) 
with additional time penalties for missed birds.  Timed pioneer skills (log 
chopping, tire changing, whatever) complete the run.  We'll have something 
really nifty for the winners.  Last year, we gave away the only Camel Trophy 
items available in North America.

There is plenty of camping available on site, and we have reserved a nearby 
riverside conference lodge (12 rooms) should you prefer accomodations less 
spartan.  There are two other motels 12-15 miles away.

Early autumn is the prettiest time of year in the Virginia Piedmont...the 
whole sweep of the Blue Ridge Mountains is visible from the high end of the 
pasture.  The site is off US Rt 15 about seven miles south of the James 
River in the center of the state.  Make plans to attend...you will be glad 
you did.  BTW, Mike is on-line right now (LR88@aol.com) so we will have 
reports right from the rally site for those unable to attend.

Cheers, y'all.

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 14:45:46 -0700
From: Jimi Patel <jimi@voyager.Jpl.Nasa.Gov>
Subject: import/export company

Hello All,

I am in process of importing my L/H BMW 502 Super V8 [1959] into U.S. 
[California/Granada Hills] from my beloved England.

Does anyone know a reputable import/export company??? Any help would
be much appreciated.

Many Thanks,

Jimi Patel

1985 Range Rover
1995 Suburban
e-mail jimi@voyager.jpl.nasa.gov

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:49:46 -0500
From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner)
Subject: The Digest

Thanks go out to TeriAnn, Charlie Wright, Dixon Kenner, Clayton Kirkwood,
and Tim Harincar who responded to my plea for news of the digest.

It was nice to know that I was not the only one experiencing problems. The
digest for Apr 16,17, and Apr 21 arrived this morning, so it looks like I
am receiving something.

The Rover is not doing regular duty at the moment, as the gearbox is really
starting to leak from the front seal. If I stop, after driving for 20 or 30
miles, and look underneath, the gear oil actually runs out then slows to a
drip
after about a minute or two. I can easily lose a quart in a 100 miles. Is
it possible there is an indication here of a worse problem than the front
seal? Just thought I'd ask.

Later.........Richard

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:08:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Winch Break-in

This is the way to go alright.  Most winching companies sell "snatch 
blocks" to do just that.  They allow you to put the pully on without 
taking off the hook.  The side of the block hinges open to do this.  Dave 
VE4PN

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:46:19 -0700
Subject: tradeoff questions

As I am looking at the pricing on some of the extras I am struck by the
outrageous prices for some items and would like to get some opinions on what
is reasonable and and necessary or nice to have. I would use the D90 as a
daily commuter and plan to use the vehicle as a way to get the family up to
the mountains to fish, see the rougher areas etc. We have an 11 yr old and a
9 month old (in car seat) all of the time and a 9 yr old every other weekend
(when we would use the D90 for getting away).

A/C	US$2800
Brushbar	695
rear seat	995
tire cover	125
full rag top	1795
hard top	2995  (fiberglass)

Pricing on the A/C is totally outrageous. The cost of the full rag and hard
top seems very steep, and even the rear seat seems high. The A/C would be
nice given the hot Sacramento, Ca. temps, but if the A/C isn't that powerful
then it wouldn't be worth it especially if I am running with either rag top.
Is the hardtop necessary for keeping normal temps in either the summer or
winter? How about when the family goes to the snow?

Are there other accessories which are worth having? I was wondering about the
winch which some of you have pointed out is the Warn winch? Is there a
particular color which holds up better than others? I don't really want the
black or white but would prefer one of the "brighter" colors.

Thanks very much for the patience and good input...

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

From: Sekerere@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:58:44 -0400
Subject: Tailgate for an 88"

I am searching for a tailgate and the hardware for the tailgate to put on my
1966 88" Series IIA. I currently have a hardtop, but when I take it off there
is a serious hole in the back that stuff slides out of. All my Land Rover has
are the two pieces that the tailgate goes into on the lower half, but I need
the tailgate itself, and the latches etc for the top of it. If someone would
be kind enough to give me a ball park price for this I would also appreciate
it. Thanks

Cheers

Chris Whitehead

1966 Series IIA 88" "Anti-Christ"

------------------------------

From: Sekerere@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:58:35 -0400
Subject: Atlantic British of California

Unfortunately I have to report some unusual circumstances with this company
also known as British Rovers. I have dealt with Tom since I purchased my Land
Rover a few months ago. I ordered a manual from then, never received it, so I
contacted him and asked that my credit card be credited for the charge they
had made. This he promised to do. Today I received my credit card bill and
noted that the charge was still there, no credit had been done. I tried to
contact the number I have for the company, and it has been disconnected with
no other information left. I tried phoning both the California and Vermont
numbers (800) and the toll number in Lewiston, California. The 800 numbers
are all disconnected, and the other number no one answers it. I thus have
reason to believe that this company has gone out of business. I am not happy
because I am saddled with a $40 bill and nothing to show for it, and I am
personally Ped off with Tom for not handling it in the way that he should
have. I will try to contact him again, but if he starts up a business again
in the Land Rover field I feel that people should avoid doing business with
him. If anyone has information about him and this business (what has happened
to it) I would appreciate hearing from you.

Cheers

Chris Whitehead
1966-Series IIA 88" "Anti-Christ"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:41:35 -0700
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Aluminium annealing

Does anyone have any experience annealing aluminium after beating out 
minor dents in body panels?

Lindsay Porter says that appropriate annealing temperature may be judged 
by when "oil" applied to the surface being annealed turns clear.  Has 
anyone tried this?  I assume he means fresh motor oil.  Is this correct?

Please E-mail me direct (jjbpears@ix.netcom.com) if your responding from 
the LRO-Digest since I'm not currently receiving it (I wasn't aware that 
Lucas had a computer division :) ).

To all you left coasties - see you in the "hills".

All comments and abuse appreciated (by the 109 facing cosmetic 
surgery that is).

Cheers,

Jeremy Bartlett
D90
SIIA 109

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:39:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Ignigtion Switch

From: LANDROVER   
Subj: RE: ignition diagram needed

Spenny's question...
 
> my problem is that the ignition will only start the engine when
> i let go of the key, not when i turn it to the right, only after i turn it
> to the right and then release it, and it moves back to the left.

Hmmmm... OK.. when you go all the way to the right, does the starter run?
If I understand your message, the starter does run, but you aren't getting
any battery to the coil until you release the key and it springs back to the
"run" position... 

I don't know for sure, but I'll tell you what it sounds like. My 1964
Triumph has the same style ignigtion switch as the late IIa. The Triumph has
an "accessory" connection on the switch which ONLY receives power in the
"run" position. It sounds as if you have gotten a wire on the wrong
terminal.. but then that's why you want a diagram. (duh)...

The diagrams I have don't clearly show which terminal is which. If it were
me, I would test the switch with an ohmmeter (after disconnecting the
battery and the wires to the switch) and determine which terminal does what.

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

 

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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