Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents


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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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1 William Caloccia [calocc115[not specified]
2 "Steve Methley" [sgm@hpl15Re: Which tyres?
3 azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woo19 LRNA reps etc.
4 Stephen Thomas [THOMSE-U27 Tyres et al......
5 Stephen Thomas [THOMSE-U26 Movies, Movies, Movies....
6 "Lapa, Hank" [hlapa@Zeus15Re: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR e
7 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu10Re: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR employees...
8 "Jeff Young" [young@mci.23[not specified]
9 JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk24D-90 Prices
10 GuyEVER@aol.com 16RR Waterpump, need help.
11 vortex@worldaccess.nl (B13Re: SIIA Parts for sale
12 Russell Burns [burns@cis16D-90 prices
13 labranch@sybase.com (Jas19Re: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR employees...
14 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV 96Discovery setup...
15 chris.youngson@deepcove.13NEW SUBSCRIBER/AMATEUR RADIO
16 Solihul@aol.com 13Re:one lead alternators
17 "Lapa, Hank" [hlapa@Zeus30" ... outside looking in ..."
18 brabyn@skivs.ski.org (Jo14Re: QUESTIONS ON D-90
19 "TeriAnn Wakeman" [twak33Re: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR employees.
20 "Lapa, Hank" [hlapa@Zeus17High-Aspect Ratio Tires
21 Russell Burns [burns@cis16D-90 tires
22 brabyn@skivs.ski.org (Jo19Re: The hydraulic jack on a Disco telescopes!
23 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV 86Re: Discovery setup...
24 Bill Yerazunis [crash@co14 The hydraulic jack on a Disco telescopes!
25 Mike Fredette [mfredett@24[not specified]
26 "Lapa, Hank" [hlapa@Zeus12Another Movie Sighting
27 gpool@pacific.pacific.ne147Snow Run One, Part 4
28 Solihul@aol.com 18Re: traction control, on the cheap
29 cs@crl.com (Michael Carr24Re: HELP !! RUST
30 "Paul Nash [paul@frcs.al69[not specified]
31 Pierce Reid [70004.4011@22Bought D90 -- what a deal!
32 "David McKain" [MCKAIN@f22 Craddock, Tailgates
33 Solihul@aol.com 12yet another movie
34 LANDROVER@delphi.com 16Re: Fw: Talking Frog (fwd)
35 Sanna@aol.com 16Re: The hydraulic jack on a Disco telescopes!
36 LANDROVER@delphi.com 63Re: To all those trying to attract the a
37 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em81A pair of events...
38 DAFREE@aol.com 31Introduction, etc.
39 Mike Fredette [mfredett@46[not specified]
40 rover@pinn.net (Alexande14Test
41 Julianbak@aol.com 9Re: #3(3) The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
42 "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" [720tyres
43 rlarson@lsil.com (Rick L33Re: D-90 prices
44 danielg@eskimo.com (Dani24Re: D90 costs
45 rlarson@lsil.com (Rick L9Re: D-90 tires
46 "Russell G. Dushin" [dus20Re: Overdrives...wha' happa'?
47 Richard Jones [rich@apri22[not specified]
48 cs@crl.com (Michael Carr21Re: Shocks (USA) for LR IIA 88 ?
49 Mike Fredette [mfredett@24[not specified]
50 "Steven Swiger (LIS)" [s18Re: Overdrives...wha' happa'?
51 mccauley@hba.trumpet.com43YES It's still Stuck...
52 cs@crl.com (Michael Carr32Re: buying land rover for use in UK
53 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em15Re: To all those trying to attract the a
54 cs@crl.com (Michael Carr36Re: Introduction, etc.
55 RICKCRIDER@aol.com 18Re: NEW SUBSCRIBER/AMATEUR RADIO


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Subject: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR employees...
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 07:21:38 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

Now I know a lot of folks aren't going to like what I'm about to say, but
at least read it and instead of looking after your own selfish interests,
think about what it would be like if you were in this person's shoes...

With regards to the questions, the theories, the speculation, the 
investigation, the tabloid reporting, the 'open letters', the
attempts to 'OUT' this person from their closet:

   I've found this behaviour to be somewhat juvinile, VERY self centered
   and rather disrespectful.

It falls somewhere _past_ curious, more toward being VULTURES, hovering 
about, trying to coax the person out of the shell waiting (or not) to 
innundate them with questions from the Mundane to the Innane, to the
intrusive (with regards to LRNA plans).

Personally I'd recommend that if anyone was associated with Solihull, or
it's affiliates in the UK or International, or even just a Dealer or 
approved service shop, that they NOT make them selves known to the list.

Why ? see below.

Now being on the net can be a great comms link, and it can also be a real
pain in the butt, and at this point, if there were just one guy, and it
doesn't really matter if it were _the_last_guy_*, even the janitor... the
punters on this list, carrying on as they are now, would make his being
known as a guy from LR, e-mail hell.  Why ? becuase you're not treating
him as a person, you're not respecting his rights/privacy/him... you're
holding him up as the end-all and the be-all of LRNA.

So grow up kids.  If you've got burning issues for LRNA, then put 'em to
paper and post 'em and stop hurling this trash at alleged readers of the
list. 

   Cheers,
        --bill  caloccia@Team.Net       <web: "http://www.senie.com/billc/">
                caloccia@Stratus.Com

      1  3     dl OD  L           "Land Rover's first, because
      |--|--+  o  |   |            Land Rovers last."
      2  4  R  ul N   H           '72 Range Rover

*to truely undertand the concept of 'the last guy' dig out a vinyl copy of
Arlo Guthrie's  song "The Pause of Mr. Clause" (if I got the title correct)

WHY ? if you still don't get it keep reading...


There is no need to hassle this person with _YOUR_ questions....

- ------------ preaching mode = on:

New LR Owners have channels, though not end-to-end electronic, to get thier
LR product questions answered:

     If you've purchased from NEW  or direct channels a late-model Land
     Rover product, you have access to a large dealer network who should
     be able to answer any question pertaining to those products.

     If you run into the uncaring Jaguar/Volvo/Honda/Mercedes/BWM or whatever
     salesman/service manger, etc. at your local dealer, than it is in your
     best interest to put your constructive comments as to how LR can improve
     their dealer base from screen to paper and mail it off to the national
     importer.

     As it would appear with most companies, even most computer companies,
     they are much more adept at handling paper and are much more
     willing to send off your paper note with appropriate attachements down
     the food chain and follow up on your complaints in a timely fashion. 

With regards to present or future plans of the LR company

    Who is to say that the person you are so desperately seeking is actually
    privy to some specific action ?

    If they were, they are certainly obliged not to publicize things
    unoffically.  I would expect most of the professionals on this list
    should at least have some concept of this, and would be kind enough
    to extend courtesy letting other maintain their confidentiality.

Questions about the suitability of LR part X for application Y:

    If you want to modify your LR with some other (LR) part, go ahead, do so
    at your own risk and buy the parts from whomever you please.  Undoubtedly
    your national LR parts supplier can supply _any_ current LR part in their
    books. If YOU choose to apply it in a manner not sanctioned by the factory
    do you think that any punter from some LR subsidiary is obliged to
    provide personal engineering consultancy ?

	If you tossed these questions out to the list, you'd probably get no
	different an answer, and without a doubt it would be quicker, just
	don't be daft and ask for the engineering drawings, eh ?

Series Owners Questions

     I don't know why you'd think that LR might be forsaking the owners of
     Series vehicles, with most of the parts still available as LR spares
     *through the appropriate channels* (Which by my understanding, in 
     North America, Rovers North is the offical Importer of Series repair
     parts... not LRNA), and as Statesides folks are well aware the importer
     of Series vehicles into the US closed its doors _decades_ ago.

	If you've owned your series for any amount of time, then by now you've
	found parts distributors, and if you lack the means, a mechanic.

All LR Owners have after market channels

     If your inquiries deal with NON-LR products or aftermarket items, then
     you are well aware, or should be well aware that there are any number of
     automotive accessory manufacturers dedicated to serving the LR enthusiest,
     without regard to the year, make or model of the vehicle.  

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From: "Steve Methley" <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:28:24 +0100
Subject: Re: Which tyres?

Mike says:

>got a set of Trakker 205 16 remoulds on mine,with no problems
>so far.They give good grip in such mud as I've been in,are
>fine on road and are wearing well.......

You can get Trakkers in 7.50x16 too for your 109".

Steve.

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From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject:  LRNA reps etc.
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:23:41 UNDEFINED

>front, I don't think Land Rovers are for everyone and I'm sure LR 
>themselves agree with me - they target customers by creating a product 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>Jeep-competitor (in that $-range, I mean) in the US, they would have 
>already. My hope is that in the future, LR (and LRNA) would really listen 

Here, I have a 90. If I end up in the US, they wouldnt even be under 
consideration at teh ridiculous prces they're pitched at. LR are aiming purely 
at teh Yuppie market, not teh work tool market  they fill over here.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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From: Stephen Thomas <THOMSE-U@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk>
Date:         6 Apr 95 11:47:48 GMT
Subject:      Tyres et al......

Hi all,
Mike, could you give me some more info on those Trakker remoulds you
have, I saw some Trakker's on a SIII recently and thought they looked
pretty good. I have some 7.50" x 16" Goodyear Hi-Milers on at the
moment but I'd like something a bit more toothy, the Goodyear are
crossplies as well, and I'd rather have radial. If you could tell me
what tyres you had before and whether or not the Trakkers are
better/quieter etc? Also you say they haven't worn much, how many
miles have you done so far?

On another note, I asked this a while ago so I'm sorry if I'm asking
the unanswerable, does anyone know of a rheostat operated oil
pressure sender for a Smiths electric oil pressure guage, like the
electric fuel and temperature senders and not one that is pressure
operated from the oil system? It'd be handy as I have the guage and
wouldn't have to fiddle with fitting the T-piece.

Cheers all
Stephen

p.s. James Cirbus.......STOP SHOUTING!.....

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From: Stephen Thomas <THOMSE-U@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk>
Date:         6 Apr 95 11:56:57 GMT
Subject:      Movies, Movies, Movies....

Sorry I should have attached this to the last message. Didn't
remember seeing it on the list of Movie sightings...

Gorillas in the Mist - Sigourney Weaver

When Dian Fossey first arrives in Africa the guy she got the research
post from drags her off the plane, over to a nice 109 tells her that
all the levers are because it's a four wheel drive and also how to
operate a non-synchro gearbox:

            "Clutch in, First, clutch out, Second"

Personally I don't see how this equates with double clutching,
however. One problem, its in the late 60's (can't remember
exactly) and the 109 has a SIII grill, but who really cares about
continuity? Other Land-Rover's can be spotted, including the one Ms
Weaver chases in reverse to speak to the Wildlife Commission chap, no
reverse 180 though...

Stephen

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Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 06:57:46 EST
From: "Lapa, Hank" <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com>
Subject: Re: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR e

     Like I said, good headwork on his part, remaining hidden that is.  
     
     Hank

> Subject: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR emplo
> Author:  William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> at Zeus
> Subject: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR employees... 
	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 140 lines)]
>      automotive accessory manufacturers dedicated to serving the LR enthusiest, 
>      without regard to the year, make or model of the vehicle.  

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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR employees...
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 14:19:24 BST

All this,of course,assumes that there is anyone there at all......

Cheers
Mike Rooth

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Subject: Re: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR employees... 
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 09:32:11 -0400
From: "Jeff Young" <young@mci.net>

>So grow up kids.  If you've got burning issues for LRNA, then put 'em to
>paper and post 'em and stop hurling this trash at alleged readers of the
>list.
There is contact information in the new registry for landrover.com.
I sent a message to postmaster@landrover.com asking "since lrna
has registered this domain, will lrna have a presence for information
on the Internet?"  unfortunately, the mail bounced - which i reported
to this group.  If you have the time, i suggest that you phone the
contact directly and leave the "lurker" on this list alone.  At least
the contact will be reached at work.

to find the phone number:

whois -h rs.internic.net landrover.com

nuff said

Jeff Young
young@mci.net

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From: JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 10:02:00 -0400
Subject: D-90 Prices

Greetings,

With all the prices going back and forth, I thought I would add my two
cents worth.

I was originally on the infamous Discovery waiting list.  After many
discussions with my dealer here, my wife and I settled on a demo D-90 off
the lot.  The truck had 600 miles on it.  It came equipped with safari
cage, windows, top, rear light protectors and A/C.  We got this neat
little package for about what Benjamin Smith listed as Dealer Invoice.
The dealer insisted that they were only making enough to pay the salesman
his $600.

I guess what they didn't say is they were sick and tired of my daily
badgering, and were willing to give up their profits to get me out of
their showroom.

Jim Cirbus

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From: GuyEVER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:01:49 -0400
Subject: RR Waterpump, need help.

Looks like I am going to have to replace the waterpump on my 1988 Range Rover
(3.5).  No noise just a leak of undeterminable source.  I'm still hoping for
a hose squirting water at an odd angle and that being the source of the
water, but  I believe that is just wishful thinking.   What I'm wondering
about is the appx cost of a water pump and a good source for one.  Seems like
I read a post about it being a though job, but it looks pretty straight
forward to me.  Anyway, suggestions and help would be appreciated.

Thanks, 
Guy  

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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:07:34 +0200
From: vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte)
Subject: Re: SIIA Parts for sale

>Just bought a good SIIA station wagon
>Anyway I'm breaking it up in a few weeks if anyone is interested in any parts, 
>send me an-email with your requirements. 
I'm interested, but I wonder, where are you located? 

Bert Palte
Holland, Europe
1964 Series IIA 88" Petrol, ex-British Army. 

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From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: D-90 prices
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 8:39:10 PDT

 The Land Rover dealership in Detroit sell its demo units
for 25.9K. This is with full cage, soft top, windows, and aluminum
wheels. I have seen a couple of these advertised, and picked one up
myself.

As for the comparsion with the Jeep, A jeep runs 14 to 22K, and I didn't
mind paying an extra 6 to 8k for a "truck" with an aluminum body.

Russ
94 D-90

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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 09:31:00 PDT
From: labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch)
Subject: Re: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR employees...

Wow Bill!

You feel very strongly about this; about as strong as Jory felt about
Pierre's paper. ;->  From the amount of time you put into that letter,

[uurrp ! Jason's drivil on the subject undigestable... -wpc]

So, my message to this person:  Come join use, have a beer, sit down
and chat, it is warm in here, we are talking about Rovers and stuff,
meet the gang.

Jason LaBranch
Software Engineer  (those stupid titles)
Sybase, Inc.

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Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 09:59:54 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Discovery setup...

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Discovery setup...
Robert,

1.
I put my owners manual in the passenger door pocket. I think I had it in
the glove compartment before though, are you *sure* it won't fit? I
don't keep mine there because of all the... uh... "necessities" in the
glove box.

2.
What's a snow scraper? ;-) I live in Arizona! As for "the club" I don't
golf. But seriously... I keep a rag and an umbrella just to the right of
the drivers seat, between the transmission console and the seat. Fits
nicely on a kind of ledge there. (Hey, what's an English vehicle without
an umbrella?) "Club" may fit as well.

3.
Offroad things... now there's a real need for a storage place! I keep
all my offroad "junk" in a large plastic bin in the garage, and put it
in the truck when leaving for the trail. It "used" to slide around a LOT
in the back and bounce a lot too until I discovered that if you fold the
jump seats DOWN, the box gets nicely wedged between them. I heard of
another Disco owner who found a complete tool set from Sears that fit
nicely in the rear door pocket. Of course, your kids won't be able to
"ride in the trunk" (as my kids call it) on the "safari seats". (Kids...
ya gotta LOVE 'em!) Your cargo net idea sounds good. I "complained" to
Charles... (forgot his last name) from LRNA about the lack of a tie down
location for such things in the rear. He made a note of it, maybe for
'96?

4.
Coffee mug, (or tea, depending on how "English" you want to be in your
"English" rig) now I'm a MAJOR coffee drinker, and carry a LARGE cup to
work each day, and refill as soon as I get there. It would NO WAY fit
the cup holder, and I hold onto mine, but will place it on the automatic
trans console whilst (hey, I'm getting the "nick" of the "English"
language, no?) I get into the vehicle. Many places sell the mugs (with
lids) that fit into the cup holders. Check the department stores, of any
"coffee house" (tea palace?). One time some @#$-#$%- pulled out in front
of me, I was in the center of 3 lanes, he/she (don't know) pulled out
whilst I was going around 55mph, not into the closest lane, but into
mine. So I quickly checked my mirror and moved into the left lane, they
KEEP COMING OVER right in front of me!! By this time, I was 15-20 feet
(5-7 meters) behind them and after JUST missing them, bouncing off the
raised median, I ALMOST (REALLY REALLY ALMOST) rolled my "new" Disco,
and required ALL 3 lanes to regain control! Tires squealed as coffee
flew ALL OVER the interior! I think I probably even had 1 or 2 tires in
the air as the Disco rocked from side to side of the 3 lane highway! My
pants were wet! (I think it was coffee.) :-O Thank God for leather
seats, they cleaned up easily. Did I learn? No, I still "gotta have my
coffee"!!

5.
The hydraulic jack has helped me one time when I got both front wheels
in the air, and the frame resting on a LARGE rock. I had to jack it up,
place rocks under, and re-jack with a rock under the jack to get enough
lift. Not fast, but crudely effective. A hi-lift type jack would have
been much better, provided there's a place to use it on the Discovery.
Possible mounting locations would be on a "safari roof rack", behind the
rino bar, or vertically somehow on the rear bumper, or maybe behind the
spare tire (tyre) somehow.

The radio buzz is something I've noticed too, probably a "normal" thing.

All in all, a TOTALLY worthy off road vehicle. I have had a few problems
though, (ABS not working, Alarm/door locks went out, sun roof wouldn't
open, rear main seal leaked, valve cover gaskets leaked, starter
replaced, sun roof screen latch broke, etc...) EVERYTHING has been
replaced or repaired by the dealer under warranty. They even provide a
free rental car while mine's getting repaired. Awesome customer service!
I WOULD have to admit though, it seems like quality control with the
Land Rover doesn't come close to the (gulp!) "Japanese junk" being
sold. Even so, there IS NO COMPARISON!! ONE TOUGH RIG!!

However, the rear lens guards aren't worth the double stick tape they're
attached with! (That's right! TAPE!!! And one screw.) I lost one to a
tree branch (most likely, but no way to tell for sure.) and the dealer
wants around $280 for the pair. I refuse to pay that much for something
that poorly designed. I complained about this too to LRNA. The good news
is that I might have a line on getting a replacement for no cost.
(Fingers crossed!)

Dave Brown - '94 Land Rover Discovery 15,000 miles - Phoenix Arizona (USA)

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

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From: chris.youngson@deepcove.com
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 11:00:16 
Subject: NEW SUBSCRIBER/AMATEUR RADIO

Nice to see there are more hams in the L/R frat. My call is VE7CST and QTH is
West Vancouver, British Columbia. A couple of years ago a had alot of dealings
with SGC (They are farely local to me) There equipment is mil-spec I believe.
The antenna mount you speak of is fantastic. When coupled with there automatic
matcher it creates a setup that can't be beat. I can answer specifics if you
like I have all the brochures, etc. here. 73 DE VE7CST 
chris.youngson@deepcove.com

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From: Solihul@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:38:47 -0400
Subject: Re:one lead alternators

David John Place in Manitoba said he'd seen a one lead alternator for $90.00.
I found a rebuilder who converts delcos to one lead (they say 'one wire' down
here) and sold me one for $35.00US, plus a $10 core charge. Try finding a
rebuilder who does ag-indust work. Eggs *are* cheaper in the country; this
rebuilder's place was a converted chicken house behind his home. I'd have
been put off, except he came well recommended.  John Dillingham, Woodstock GA
SerIII 88

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Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 13:41:57 EST
From: "Lapa, Hank" <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com>
Subject: " ... outside looking in ..."

     Jason,
     
     Someone said recently that over 300 are now subscribed --  but how 
     many are "regulars" (familiar names)?  The rest, lurkers all, make you 
     uncomfortable?  Not me.  Live and let lurk.  It's obvious on a regular 
     basis that we eat our young.  (We Series guys cook 'em on the radiator 
     grill!)  We've got readers and posters who don't even have a Rover, 
     yet or ever -- They must REALLY be on the outside looking in, nicht 
     wahr?  The mystery lurker has *already* been bombarded.  Let's move on 
     to an alternate target, shall we?  OK now, someone mentioned beer....?
     
     Hank, Mechanical Engineer (those with quick but crude minds may fill in 
     "erection" joke here)
     
     "the only thing worse than a stupid title is one that's a 
     contradiction in terms."  ;-)
     
> Subject: Re: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR e
> Author:  labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) at Zeus 
> From: labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) 
> Subject: Re: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR employees...
     
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 56 lines)]
> Software Engineer  (those stupid titles) 
> Sybase, Inc.

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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 11:51:29 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  QUESTIONS ON D-90

Re oil filters I think the Fram hp-1 is the only alternative I've found
for the RR (which uses the same filter as the D-90 I suspect) other
than the Crossman ones I've bought from Atlantic British. However the
new LR official ones are not badly priced from the dealers now -- I 
used one of those last time.

Cheers

John Brabyn

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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 11:51:13 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: To all those trying to attract the attention of any LR employees.

In message <199504061636.RAA04792@chunnel.uk.stratus.com> Jason LaBranch writes:
> Here is my thang:  There is no reason he/she should not make an
> introduction to us.  I am not affraid to tell people what I do
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> for a living, and I am not going to put one of those stupid disclaimers
> at the end of my message either.

Reading the HUGE pile of e-mails on this subject.....

It reads to me like a witch hunt buy an number of people trying to sweet talk 
someone out into the open so they could lynch him.  If it was me, I'd hide.  
Something is bound to come up to make people forget about this witch hunt.  

But if it was me I would be recognizable as having a US spec 110 reboddied into 
a 2 door version.  Since I have an aging 109 & an apple.com address, it can't be
me.  I just get to deal with Land Rover & British car subscribers wanting to 
know what computer to purchase or  with operating systems questions.

So.. Hey Dixon, what do you think about Defenders?...Mike, what do you think 
about Dixon?  Maybe we can change the subject!  Maybe Nute is lurking and 
getting ready to close down the US internet backbone so save up more money to 
give to rich people?  

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 13:53:45 EST
From: "Lapa, Hank" <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com>
Subject: High-Aspect Ratio Tires

     Of possible interest to those who like tall, narrow tires for their 
     snow qualities, these are what I've been running since about 1988:
     
     Daytona Radial Stag M/S
     LT235R16 Radial
     4-ply tread (2 poly, 2 steel)
     2-ply sidewall
     
     Like I said earlier, not sure of present availability, but a real 
     aggressive self-cleaning tread that looks the part fer sure.
     
     Hank the Yank

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From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: D-90 tires
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 12:26:54 PDT

It seems that there is a shortage on BFGoodrich 265/75R16 tires.
My local tire dealer couldn't locate them anywhere. So we are looking
at some other brands. I never realized that I might have a problem
finding tires for the beast. Any one running different size/brands
on their D-90? I am looking for an AT type tread, but still plan to
abuse them. (I have more trees to drag out)

Russ Burns
D-90 with 4 out of 5 tires
91 R-Rover with all 5 tires.

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 12:49:25 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  The hydraulic jack on a Disco telescopes!

Probably it's the same jack as supplied with RRs, which is a good one, EXCEPT
I had a bad experience with it a couple of weeks ago when I had just got unstuck
and found I had a flat; I was jacking up the wheel when the jack suddenly stopped
pumping! The arm wanted to push itself back up again every time I pushed it down
! I guess the non-return valve stopped working! After a few minutes of panic,
collecting rocks to put under it and getting ready to dig a hole under the wheel,
it cured itself! If any of you jack experts know what happened and how I can prevent 
prevent a recurrence, I'd be grateful! I will check the oil level in it
but don't know if that would cause the problem anyway.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

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Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 11:42:19 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Re: Discovery setup...

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Re: Discovery setup...
Robert,

Let's see how good my ascii art is, shall we???

High lift jack:

        ___
       | O |
\      | O |
 \     | O |
\ \    | O |
 \ \  -------
  \ \_|     |____'  < This is a flat lip that lifts the vehicle.
   \--|-----|        (the handle goes off the screen on the opposite side.)
       | O |
   -------------

"Normally" the "lip" part of the jack fits underneath a bumper, and the
jack (being from 4 to 5 feet tall) is next to the vehicle. Kind of like
the "old bumper jacks" that American cars had in the '60's and '70's.
The problem is where to place it on a modern car/truck without it
slipping off the lip and falling. One advantage of a high lift jack is
it's ability to be used as a winch. (As well as it's length.)

I saw what looked like a REALLY neat jack in an issue of LRO magazine, it
was a large "air bag" thing that fit to the exhaust pipe, and filled with
exhaust, lifting up to 4 tons or so. (depending on model.) This looked
like it'd be VERY handy! Imagine getting dug into sand, slide this little
puppy under your rig, start her up, and voilla! The add showed a Range
Rover with both wheels in the air on one side. HAS ANYONE SEEN OR USED ONE
OF THESE??? Please provide us with a performance report!!

Dave Brown - '94 Discovery - Phoenix Arizona (USA)

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead
*** Reply to note of 04/06/95 11:17
=========================================================================
   Thu, 06 Apr 95 11:17:10 MST
          id AA20121; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:00:40 -0700
	id OAA11547; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:15:23 -0400
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:15:23 -0400
	id sma011504; Thu Apr  6 14:14:23 1995
X-Sender: rv01@pophost.gte.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi)
Subject: Re: Discovery setup...

David-

Thanks for the input.  Some of your suggestions will be tried out tonight.
One or two specific comments . . .

>I think I had it in
>the glove compartment before though, are you *sure* it won't fit?

it fit, but severely impeded use of the glove box.  If things shifted, it
was possible to cause a jam.  Like you, I moved it.

>5.
>A hi-lift type jack would have
>been much better, provided there's a place to use it on the Discovery.

What does this mean?  Why wouldn't there be a place to use it?  I thought
these jacks were pretty much all purpose, although I admit I've never seen
one.  Better do some more work before I go and buy one, I guess.

Again, thanks for the tips.  I'll be trying them out.

-Bob

  rvirzi@gte.com             Think Globally. ===
  +1(617)466-2881                            === Act Locally!

------------------------------
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From: Bill Yerazunis <crash@concentra.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:00:47 +0500
Subject:  The hydraulic jack on a Disco telescopes!

[John B. talks about how his jack stopped pumping with back pressure
 on the pump handle]

Yup, that's dirt in the high-pressure check valve.  

Either clean it carefully, or ignore it.  :-)

	-Bill

------------------------------
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Subject: Re: D-90 tires 
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 13:24:01 -0700
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

Russ asks,

	It seems that there is a shortage on BFGoodrich 265/75R16 tires.
My local tire dealer couldn't locate them anywhere. So we are looking
at some other brands. I never realized that I might have a problem
finding tires for the beast. Any one running different size/brands
on their D-90? I am looking for an AT type tread, but still plan to
abuse them. (I have more trees to drag out)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

	Check out the tires on the new 95 D90's, they have gotten rid of
the Mud Terrains in favor of the less aggressive, ie quieter, BF Goodrich
AT Radial All Terrain, same size as before though 265/75R16. I think these
AT tires are easier to come by than the MT's but actually, I'm surprised to 
hear your even having trouble finding those. BFG's are readily available around
here in Portland.	

Rgds
Mike Fredette
D90 Portland, Orygun

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 07 Apr 95 05:44:55 EST
From: "Lapa, Hank" <hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com>
Subject: Another Movie Sighting

     "Packin' It In"
     Typical Richard Benjamin / Paula Prentiss comedy about seeking a 
     simpler life in the Pacific Northwest woods.  Light green 88 becomes 
     the new family car, of course.  Amusing and watchable, but not 
     especially memorable.
     
     Hanky

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:10:33 -0700
From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool)
Subject: Snow Run One, Part 4

Here, fellow netters, is Part 4 of the lastest escapades of the Mendocino
Forest Land-Rovers Gnomes:

At the end of Part 3 of our story about Snow Run One in the Mendocino
National Forest, I told how we came to face the fact that we would have to
return to the Rice Fork of the Eel River and repeat, in reverse, that
dreaded-by-some crossing.  Certainly, we were not going to get out over the
pass and had to find some alternative.

After we got back across the bridge over Bear Creek and headed back to the
west, toward the Rice Fork, but maybe a third of a mile east of the Rice
Fork crossing, we came to a turn-off for anther trail (17N04) which went
south across Bear Creek (much smaller than the Rice Fork, let me tell you).
We stopped and considered that possibility.  This was the other end of a
trail that we had tried on our previous outing, stopped by another creek
crossing (where we ate our lunch).  

Saayyy, fellow travellers [a little aside]:  It just dawned on me that that
creek where we ate lunch on that previous trip had to have been the Rice
Fork.  So I just got out my forest map and--sure enough.  Those who were on
Scouting Outing One will recall that the trail forded right at a fork of the
creeks and that we would have had to cross twice.  The second crossing would
have been over Salt Creek.  That trail was a little tempting, as it crosses
the waters of Bear Creek and Salt Creek separately and the Rice Fork near
its headwaters where it is a lot smaller, without the water of these two
creeks (not to mention Parramore Creek, Little Soda Creek, Rock Creek, and
French Creek which 17N04 avoids entirely).

Well, we were grasping at straws (or Strohs, no, that would have been
Guiness). We eventually decided to go face "The devil we knew" rather than
the another unknown one.  So we found our reluctant selves back at the
Indians' property and the treacherous waters of that little bitty branch of
the might Eel.  

Well, we had learned a lot on the previous crossing.  And we were determined
to put our new-found smarts to good effect.  So we made much better
preparations this time, both to our rigs and to our team effort.  Most, if
not all of us put covers over our grilles.  I, you'd better be*^*^*lieve it,
re-routed my Dodge's air intake hose by wrapping it around behind the big,
round air-filter, against the firewall.  And I tied a tow strap on my A-arm
and pulled it up over the hood and into the driver's side window.  [Another
correction note here:  Ben pointed out that, when I was rescued before, it
was not a tow strap that John and Mo attached to my A-arm, it was a big, fat
(manilla?) rope that Ben had brought. I remember it now, Ben--lost my head.]
And I hooked my heavy cable on the rear and pulled it up into the bed.  I
would be ready if I stalled, this time to effect a quick recovery before my
interior became a fish tank.

Jim took major precautions too.  He covered his grille.  He put a surgical
glove over his oil breather (with the fingers tastefully arranged in an
appropriate gesture, no doubt reflecting his healthy regard for the forces
of nature).  Some other clever preparations too, no doubt; maybe a mantra or
two.  I know I swore my undying devotion to the Bogaziti, before I dipped my
proverbial toes back into the stew.

We all took our time with our preparations before beginning to cross.  We
had learned: Ford in haste, repent at leisure!!  Vance, I believe, went
first, with no major trouble.  He stalled once but got restarted and along
under his own power to the other side.  He then turned around and readied
his winch for rescue of any who needed it.  Ben stayed back and also
prepared for rescue.  Not needed, I'm very pleased to say.  

The first time we had crossed, some of our party bribed the landowners and
hangers-on (mostly) with beer, to good effect.  This time I had to
contribute my buddy Chester, Chester Cheetah, that is.  There were two
darling little Indian children there to watch our every move and get under
foot.  They were right out of a Grace Hudson painting.  As I was watching
the crossings and awaiting my turn, the little girl (maybe, what, four or
five) asked me, "How come you gotta bag of Cheetos in your truck?"  I said,
"Because I like them; would you like some?"  Well, of course she would.  I
had long ago run out of film and the crossings were not nearly as
foto-gin-ic this time anyway.  

So I went and got my bag of Cheetos (well, of course I did actually have
SOME emergency rations, not just the floating sandwich).  I offered each
child the bag and he/she grabbed a huge double hand-full, spilling them all
over the ground.  After each had handsfull of Cheetos, I saw that it was
about time for my turn at [gulp] dodging the ford.  So I said, "Here, grab
some more, I've got to go now.  The boy again filled his hands to
overflowing but the girl said, "Can I have the rest of the bag?"  I said sure.  

The time had come: I hopped in my pickup and away into the deep water that
was next to the east bank; at least, crossing in this direction, you know
whether or not you're going to make it right away.  This time, even my
dodgey effort at crossing was uneventful.  We all made it to the other side
unaided.  In large part due to better preparation but also due to our
knowing that devil and having refined our fording skills.  Some had learned
to go a smidge more quickly, some a smidge more slowly.  Some learned a
better line (and Mo was once again there, knee-deep in the river, to point
us in the right direction.  Learning is good. learning is fun.  I LIKE this
school!

Now that we were all across the river, we had prospects of something a lot
better than beer and Cheetos.  We were finally back on the restaurant side
of the river!  Of course, we weren't out of the woods and back to
civilization yet. We still had a bunch of snowy hills to climb, ones that
had given us just a bit of trouble on the way in, if you will recall, dear
reader.

Although we gamely spun, slipped, fishtailed, and slid a little, we actually
did just fine and got back to Elk Mountain Road (pavement, what the heck is
that?) without further incident and with a lot of very entertaining banter
on the CBs (it was great that everyone had them).  Once we were back at the
edge of the paved road, we again lined up the Rovers for vapor lock.  We all
posed in front of the Rover-row for group fotos.  We even had a moto-yahoo
volunteer to snap one so we could all get in the frame.  And of course we
all huddled closely in front of my Dodge, to cut it from the shot.  But hey,
it DID get me back and WAS better than staying home.

Sure, we were dog-tired and some of the group had a long way to drive home.
But it was still early (yeah, we got out in broad daylight this time--hey,
no one's perfect).  So, when we got back to Upper Lake, we aired up our
deflated tires, fueled our rigs, and fanned our inflated egos and warms
afterglows.  We convoyed over to Lakeport, to a nice little dinner
restaurant on the lake (I mean, like, right by the lake, with sandbags,
since the lake had risen so high).  In we trooped, dirty, unshaven (well, I
know, some of us never shave), and looking like we just crawled out of the
mountains (well, so what, we DID just crawl out of the mountains).  A couple
of the fellows even had to keep their hats on to hide two days worth of "hat
hair."  And this restaurant has a real wine list and table cloths.  No one
seemed to mind.  We sure didn't.  Those of us who eat meat got big ol' New
York steaks and devoured them with alactrity.  And grins.

In fact, our biggest problem, as we parted company on this trip, was our
aching jaws from grinning from ear to ear for two whole days!!  Even after
we left the restaurant, we hung out together for some more discussion,
sorting equipment, last-minute checks before heading home.  Bruce and I
headed back on Highway 20 to 101.  The rest were going to convoy back over
29 through the Napa Valley.  Before leaving, though, Vance had everyone who
had an interior light turn it on for a couple of last pictures (Rovers only,
I had to park out of the row).  He shot toward the lake, the line of noble
Land-Rovers against (partly in, actually) the water.  Then he waded over
toward the strand (under water and only visible due to the rails sticking
up) and shot back toward Lakeport.  How did those shots turn out, Vance?

I hated to leave but really did need to get home and start catching up on my
sleep.  When I did sleep, that night, I dreamed good dreams.  Very good.
Can't wait to get back up there for the next run.  Just can't buy fun like that.

See you in the mountains!

Granville

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From: Solihul@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:03:40 -0400
Subject: Re: traction control, on the cheap

Trevor Easton writes "considered split braking system, like SAABs" Try this:
LR brake shoes are self energizing, that is to say, the leading shoe will
'bite' into the drum as it is applied to a spinning drum to slow that drum
down. Next time you're cross axled, in low range, foot off the clutch, with
one rear wheel spinning, *gently* apply the brakes with the left foot. Don't
let it stall. The spinning wheel should be slowed down, and the stopped
wheel, should be able to move a little before its leading shoe begins to
energize, because, as the brake shoe does its thing against the drum the diff
will do its thing and transfer torque to the other wheel. This has worked for
me in other vehicles and conditions (a VW Beatle in snow, in Dixie) but I've
not yet had a chance to try it in my 88. regards, John Dillingham, Woodstock,
GA

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:29:41 -0700
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: HELP !! RUST

William Smith <wills@SPLinux.spl.co.za> wrote:
>chassis number is stencilled on my SIII 2,25l pup and discovered rust there.
 It is where the leaf spring mounting is welded to the chassis. The rust is 
 +- 5 x 3 cm. *** small holes are visible ***. How do I go about fixing this ?
 I've got an arc welder and gas (oxy/acetylene) welding equipment.

 You don't mention if your frame is galvanized or not, I assume not.  After
 removing any dirt, grease, and paint about the area, and breaking off loose
 rust, treat the rust with phosphoric acid.  This is the same ingredient used
 in Naval Jelly, and available at paint stores here in the US.  Phosphoric acid
 will replace the oxygen molecule that attached to iron in the creation of rust.
 The resulting surface will be ready for painting, or in your case, structural
 or cosmetic metal repair.  

 Michael Carradine    Carradine Studios                   Tel.510-254-3324
 Architect            Architecture Development Planning   Pgr.510-945-5000
 NCARB RIBA           PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA           cs@crl.com

 Unimog WWW page at ftp://ftp.crl.com/users/cs/cs/unimog.html

------------------------------
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Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest 
From: "Paul Nash <paul@frcs.alt.za>"@tantrum.frcs.alt.za
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 09:22:45 +1000

> Driving 2 x 109" SIII diesels from UK to South Africa.

I've got _lots_ of advice for you (if you're at all interested).  I'll
try to summarise here, but if you want all the excrutiating detail,
send me mail so as not to bore everyone else witless (unless they
actually _want_ to be bored).

I recently travelled about 7,000 km from RSA, via Zimbabwe, Mozambique,
Malawi, Zambia, Botswana and back to RSA in a sIII diesel.  I sold the
Land Rover (sob; weep; wail) at the end of last year (and am now in
Australia for a couple of years, trying desperately to figure out how
to steal^H^H^H^H^Hobtain a 110 Tdi :-)).

We travelled on roads ranging from good (RSA highways) to exciting (one
road in particular, between the Luangwa and Petauke in Zambia, which
took 8 hours to cover 100km and ruined my front springs).  We also waded
though the deep sand in Botswana.  This was on vanilla 750x16 retread
crossply tires, without any problems.  They still have plenty of tread
by the time that we got back, and new retreads are cheap anyway -- about
R200 each (say GBP 40 each).  We had very few problems with punctures,
but spare tubes and patches are a good idea, as is getting all your tires
removed & replaced before you leave (to make manual removal easier).

Now for the unsolicited stuff:  if you have four-leaf springs, replace
them with the multi-bladed springs.  LR used to ship "heavy-duty" springs
to Africa, and they crack and break.  Go over you springs to look for 
cracks and broken blades, and lubricate them _and the shackle pins_.
It'll make replacement easier :-).  Take a few spare shackes/pins, plus
maybe even the two long blades (or a block of wood to go between the 
axle and bump-stop).

Take a spare set of injector pipes (or two sets) -- they crack from the
vibration on bad roads.  The only major problems we had were springs and
injector pipes.

On rutted roads, drop your tire pressures.  The mechanic who replaced
my springs in Petauke explained that most foreigners run at 30 psi or
so, and crack springs.  Locals run at 20 psi, and have a smoother ride.
Your mileage may vary :-).

Don't expect to get a very high price for your Land Rover in SA.  I sold
a SIII diesel 109 hardtop, with roofrack, spare parts & wheels, jerry cans,
ammo boxes, pick & shovel, etc, etc, and had _very_ few people interested
and even fewer prepared to pay much.  You're _very_ unlikely to get more
than R20,000 (GBP 4,000) and are likely to get less :-(.  It'd cost you
about R10,000 per vehicle to ship back to the UK, so you may consider that
option.

Make sure that you trip goes via Lake Maclear in Malawi, and stay at the
Golden Sands there -- it is a wonderful place to chill out for a few days.
Try to get to the South Luangwa reserve, and if so, stay at the Flat Dogs
campsite just outside the reserve.  The owner (Jake) is an ecologist, and
knows an enormous amount.  Whatever else you do, go through Botswana, and
travel through Chobe and the other reserves.  _Don't_ leave your shoes
outside, as the hyenas will eat them (happened to me!).

Get a copy of the Loney Planet "Africa on a Shoestring", and take lots of
small denomination US$ notes in cash -- we never needed to bribe anyone,
but there were lots of hidden entry/exit costs whenever we crossed borders.
Credit cards are pretty much useless, except in major centres.

Good luck, and enjoy the trip -- I really envy you!

	paul

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Date: 07 Apr 95 09:19:34 EDT
From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Bought D90 -- what a deal!

Well, I finally bought a D90.  Used, but with only 800 (yes, only 800) miles

Coniston Green, many options including A/C, (though I am not sure a LR should
*have* a/c.), brush guards, fender protectors, full softtop (gray) , alloys,
side bars, etc.  Never been off road.  It was $25.9K... I pick it up in about 10
days...

Used to belong to Les Wexner, the guy who founded the Limited, the Gap,
Victorias Secret, etc.  He has many Land Rovers, Range Rovers and Discoveries...
(Does being a billionaire -- or founding Victorias Secret -- qualify one for the
list of famous LR owners??  If so, Les should be on it.)

I am a happy camper!

Cheers, 

R. Pierce Reid

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From: "David McKain" <MCKAIN@faculty.coe.wvu.edu>
Date:          Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:12:56 EDT
Subject:       Craddock, Tailgates

I just got a price from John Craddock on new and used tailgates. I'm 
very interested in purchasing one but don't have a clue on shipping 
and the like. Does anyone have some approximations on shipping and 
sevice from Craddock? 

Also, I would like to hear any opinions on radial vs. bias ply for 
off-road and general use.

Thanks,

David McKain
1966 SIIa Petrol
mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu
(304) 599-0120
Morgantown, WV
USA                     

------------------------------
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From: Solihul@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:03:47 -0400
Subject: yet another movie

Mayb I missed it, how about "The Italian Job", with Michal Caine, made in the
sixties, very mod. A 109 plays support vehicle to three minis prepared to
carry about five hundred pounds of gold bullion, stolen from the FIAT factory
in Milan. Benny Hill plays the computer genius hired by Caine to foul up the
traffic computer in Milan, pretty funny, mildly suspenseful, soooo sixties.
Regards, John Dillingham, Woodstock, GA

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 20:22:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Fw: Talking Frog (fwd)

Uncle Roger tells us...

> A boy was crossing a road one day when a frog called out to him
> and said, "If you kiss me, I'll turn into a beautiful princess."
> He bent over, picked up the frog and put it in his pocket.  The

Boy... I'm glad! I thought maybe the frog would have turned into Taylor!

Cheers
Mike

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From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:43:16 -0400
Subject: Re: The hydraulic jack on a Disco telescopes!

>This means that the jack can actually extend up to about 20" tall.  It's
both impressive and scarey.

Listen, don't over estimate that hydralic jack.  It's the same type they've
been puting in LR's for 20 years, and in a real recovery situation it is
marginal.  You're better off figuring out where to strap the HiLift and get
on with it.

I tossed the stock jack after it jambed with sand during a mid-river
situation.  It turned a reasonably simple recovery into an all day affair.

------------------------------
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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 20:21:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: To all those trying to attract the a

Bill sez....
 
> Now I know a lot of folks aren't going to like what I'm about to say, but

yer right...

> *to truely undertand the concept of 'the last guy' dig out a vinyl copy of
> Arlo Guthrie's  song "The Pause of Mr. Clause" (if I got the title
> correct)

The title sounds correct, but all I remember of the song goes like this..

    So let's get Santa Clause - cause...

    Santa Clause wears a red suit, he's a communist..
    Has a beard, and long hair - must be a pacifist.
    What's in that pipe that he's smoking?

    Mr. Clause sneaks in your house at night,
    He must be a dope fiend, to put you up-tight.
    Why do police guys mess with these guys?

As to the rest of your post - rubbish! Why try to stifle a rumor by making a
bigger deal of it? 

OK.. I see your point on "e-mail hell"... Just because the company I work
for makes the glass for the Disco sunroofs doesn't mean that I'm qualified
to answer *any* questions on the subject and I would hate to have a bunch of
crazed Rover owners stoning me (especially this bunch!). So if this person
is a lurker using a private account, fine.. Stay a lurker. There are lots of
lurkers on this list. just like any other mail list.

However, if LRNA subscribes to this list with a corporate account, then I
for one believe that that fact should be made known. I mean, we're all here
for the same thing, right? (Well, some *are* here for the beer!)  

> New LR Owners have channels, though not end-to-end electronic, to get
> thier LR product questions answered:

But is is nice to think that LR might actually use this medium for feedback
from at least some of the hard-core owners.

> With regards to present or future plans of the LR company

And the future owners of Land-Rover products...
 
Arrr.. enough from this soap box.

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

Title? We don't need any stinkin' titles...

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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 16:19:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: A pair of events...

June 12th Annual OVLR Birthday Party 

Date:  June 24th and 25th 

Place: Silver Lake (about sixty (miles or kilometers) south west of Ottawa)

Gen'l:  The site of the 12th annual OVLR Birthday party will be more
        varied that past years.  The property abuts onto two lakes. (ie 
	fishing and swimming will be possible) There will be two campsites 
	available on the property, one smaller one beside the lake, a much 
	larger one a few hundred yards "inland".  There are a large variety 
	of trails from the very light off-road variety (street tires 
	required) to medium and very heavy off-road trails.  The property 
	adjoins the Silver Lake Provincial Park, so there is a more civilised 
	campground available for those who prefer showers and other wussy 
	things (1/2 mile away).  For the real degenerates, there is also a 
	motel very close by with both rooms and cabins for rent (1/8 of 
	a mile). 

Who: 	This event is open to all Land Rover owners.  However, noting a 
	general rise in attendance levels over the past few years, there 
	is concern with getting accurate counts of people so that 
	preparations can be made.  This is also the first year at a new
 	location, and facilities on the Birthday Party site might be 
	limited.  This event is also run by a few volunteers in their 
	spare time.  (Unlike in the U.S.A. where Land Rover North America 
	supported the Rover Owners of Virginia event to the tune of $2,000
	Land Rover Canada wouldn't give us a hot dog if we asked...)  
	In light of this, the Executive has decided that pre-registration 
	will be required.  The pre- registration form will be included with 
	both the May and June newsletters (And dropped in the InterNet
	Land-Rover-Owner mailing list.  If you do not pre-register, 
	there is no guarantee that you will be able to get in to the 
	Birthday Party.

Cost:     At this time, the cost is the same as last year.  
          $15.00 per person over the age of 12 years.  
          $8.00 per child aged 6 through 12 
          Children under 6 are free.

Note:   The heavy off-road is just that, very slow and heavy.  As a 
	result, basic requirements for vehicles will be set for 
	participation in the heavy off-road.  Expect scrutineering,  
	being required to have a fire extinguisher, and a basic first 
	aid kit.  More details to follow on this aspect later...
        More details to follow. Times and schedules to follow in subsequent 
        issues.  The co-ordinator for this year is Jason Dowell. 
	(819) 595-4593

July 1st & 2nd 8th Annual Downeast Land Rover Rally

     	Mid-Coast Maine.  

	The most important day is Sunday at the Owls Head Transportation 
	Museum.  There are no participation fees.  Note the change/addition 
	to Saturdays activities from last month's announcement.

Saturday: In response to participant demand, there will he off-road 
	  activities on Saturday.  The course will be on 5,000 acres 
	  of mountain, valley and mixed terrain.  The off- roading will 
	  follow the "Tread Lightly" approach.

          BBQ at Ducktrap midday, Whales Tooth Pub in the evening

Sunday:   Owls head Transportation Museum 9am - 4:30pm.  70 to 100 Rovers, 
  	  airshow and more

          Whales Tooth Pub - dinner - evening

Monday:   Acadia Nat'l Park, Desert Island, Quiet driving, no 4WDing, 
	  antique stores, costal villages.

Tuesday:  Breakfast at Ducktrap.  Fireworks in Thomaston Me. at 9pm.

More details:  Myles Murphy, RR2, Box 23, Lincolnsville, Maine, 04849, USA 
	       or (207) 789-5303.

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From: DAFREE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:07:30 -0400
Subject: Introduction, etc.

From: Peter Whitbeck

Greetings,

I've just subscribed this week - what a great find this is!

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area (Orinda) and own a 1964 SIIa 109
two-door (or perhaps it owns me...) which I'm in the process of restoring.

Does anyone know where in the U.S. I can find a right rear body panel
(original IIa with fuel inlet at front of panel) in good shape for the above?
I've been able to find sIII panels but no sII.

My other dilemna is in regard to stripping and painting the bulkhead. There
is surface rust only, mostly in and around the seams caused by salt air from
when I used to live near the ocean. Should I bite the bullet and remove the
bulkhead, have it acid dipped and painted? Seems that sandblasting, using
chemicals or trying to strip the thing while on the vehicle wouldn't get rid
of the rust completely and/or permanently.  Any thoughts?

Peter Whitbeck
dafree@aol.com
Orinda, California
510-284-5554

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Subject: Re: QUESTIONS ON D-90 
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 11:15:36 -0700
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

JIM

2.      HOW ABOUT EXPERIENCE WITH SUSPENSION CHANGES/UPGRADES?  I HEARD
THAT LANDROVER PUT SOME HEAVY DUTY COILS ON THE BACK OF THE 90 TO AVOID
SOME SORT OF IMPORT TAX.  THESE COILS DETRACT FROM AN OTHERWISE GOOD RAMP
TRAVEL INDEX.  I WAS ALSO TOLD THAT "OLD MAN EMU"(sp), OUT OF AUSTRALIA,
HAS A 2" LIFT THAT IS PRICED AT ABOUT $600.  ANYBODY TRIED IT?
HOW ABOUT REMOVAL OF ANTI-SWAY BARS?

	When I first started off roading my D90 I had heard the same rumours
about heavy springs to get the gross weight up, thus avoiding a tarriff of
some sort. I also noticed that I was lifting a wheel on trails that my old
Ser lll had made it through with no problem. At the time, nobody could give me
a straight answer, even LRNA. I noticed in the Rovers North catalog that they
listed two sets of rear springs for the 90, standard and heavy duty, so I took
a chance and ordered a set of the standard ones, thinking all the US spec 90s
must have the heavy duty type. Nope, the standard ones I received were exactly
the same as the ones on the truck. Turns out, it's the sway bars that are limiting
the suspension travel. I experimented and found that removing just the rear is the
best solution, Providing a balance between handling and off road articulation. The
rear is also much easier to take of than the front. I found that with both
sway bars removed, the truck, uhh, well, it sways, in the corners noticably. Much
like the older Range Rovers. With front bar installed, it still corners well on the
road and gives enough rear travel to keep tires planted in most cases. I also
noticed that with both bars installed off roading, on side slopes, or crossing
diagonals, the suspension wouldn't soak it up, and tended to lean me over, often
into a tree or two(thanks for the safari cage, it actually works). With the bars
removed, no problems.
	Have no experince or even heresay, regarding Old Man Emu stuff, some of the
Land Cruiser guys around here use it though. Seems like a lot of money to spend
for something that removing the swaybars mostly takes care of anyway. As for the 2
in lift aspect, the D90 is PLENTY high for most anything. With a lift, you gain a
little frame/ground clearance, but your diffs are still the same height. If you run
larger tires then you open the whole clearance, higher cg, etc can of worms.
Higher is not better in this case. Look at pictures of the crazy guys on the Moab, Ut
trails, the best all use 33in or less tires, and that is some off the toughest off
roading there is. How often do you use yours off road? I'll wager it's capabilities
are more than up to most anything you can throw at it.

Rgds
Mike Fredette
D90 Portland, Orygun

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 19:49:16 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Test

Sorry to waste bandwidth with this, but several of us on this side of the 
pond are having trouble gettin on/back onto the 'net.  Cheers to all.
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------
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From: Julianbak@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:33:23 -0400
Subject: Re: #3(3) The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

inch 109 rims.  If interested,  contact me at aol:  julianbak

Julian

------------------------------
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Date: 06 Apr 95 20:46:53 EDT
From: "WILLIAM  L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: tyres

Andy 
1)do not use 205 x 16 tyres on a 109, you lose ground clearance and load
capacity and fuel economy.
2)  Use radial tryes and ensure that they are fitted with good quality radial
type tubes, do not use tubes unless they are marked with use for Radial,
otherwise you will be plagued with punctures, watch what the tyre dealer fits,
they can make extra money by using cheap cross ply tubes and charging you for
radial. Use Avon or Michelin
3)  Most remoulds will be worn out in 8 to 10 k miles
4) I recomend Michelin tyres, they are the hardest wearing of any tyres on sale
in Europe, 50 k plus unless you use the aggressive tread patterns, then you can
regroove them for some more use.
Failing that the Avon Rangemaster is a cheaper option for a road / country tyre.

  Regards   Bill Leacock   Limey in exile

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 11:10:49 PDT
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: D-90 prices

I've owned a Jeep Wrangler, (actually I have owned a Cherokee, Wrangler, and a
Grand Cherokee, all new.)  The Wrangler was the worst vehicle I've ever owned, 
even after going into the $20K range in lift kits, real tires, etc.  It was
awful on road and was just average off road.  I replaced it with the Grand
Cherokee after less than a year.  The Grand Cherokee was a good car.  
Unfortuately it just got beat up off road.  (After my first trip, all 4
of the "off-road" suspension shocks were leaking and had to be replaced.)
Fortunately, it was stolen and I had the opportunity to buy a replacement.
I was looking for a vehicle with the coil suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes,
and V8 of the Cherokee, but that was better built for off roading.
I bought a D90 and haven't looked back.  The only options it has are the
Black paint/leather seating package, fiberglass hard top, and the aluminum
wheels.  I've added a Warn 9000i winch on the ARB bumper, and front and
rear ARB air lockers.

Anyway, I've had both, the extra cost of a Land Rover over any Jeep is well
worth it.  Being classified as yuppie scum for driving a vehicle with
out roll up windows is kinda of interesting though. 

The itemized invoice cost to dealer list distributed before is correct to 
the best of my knowledge.  I do know of a least one "fire" sale to dealers
in SO Cal. for around $1000.00 below invoice to clear the unloading dock.  
D90's aren't rare and don't sell particularly well.  Deals can be found.

-Rick
'94 D90
      
Rick Larson

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From: danielg@eskimo.com (Daniel Grambihler)
Subject: Re: D90 costs
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:19:34 -0800 (PST)

> Actually, I think they are making a bundle if you pay $32k.  I believe the
> Dealer Cost is around $24k.  $8000 is a big profit.  A lot of times the

These are stock prices for a D90 @ LR Scottsdale (AZ):

'94: $26K
'95: $28,650

Plus $400 Inland
Plus $900 Tires (I STILL haven't been able to understand THIS brain-damage!)

Houston:
'95: $28,650

Plus $625 Inland (About 10 miles inland!)
Plus $900 Tires (see above...)

- Daniel

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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 15:58:04 PDT
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: D-90 tires

Check out the the tire selector feature at

http://www.goodyear.com
Rick Larson

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Overdrives...wha' happa'?
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 16:38:48 EDT

> All, (Those interested in the overdrives)

> I HAVE 8 CONFIRMED, NEED TWO MORE. 

> WATCH THIS SPACE. 

Mark-

What's the deal?  Did two more requests come through?

Am I on the list (or on the blacklist)?

thanks in advance,
rd/nigel

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Subject: Re: LR at the movies
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:35:32 +0100 (BST)
From: Richard Jones <rich@apricot.co.uk>

Tom Stevenson writes:
> I enjoyed reading your film list; I remember a film from the 70s which
> was a pilot or a film spin-off from the TV series 'Callan' with Edward
> Woodward.
none

The Film title was "This is Callan" and was I believe set after the
end of the series (the copy I have is dated 1974).  Incidentally, the
same Range Rover (STP 111J), somewhat more battered and without its
black glass appeared in the episode "The Future Hour" of the 70's TV
series "Survivors".

-- 
 _ __              Apricot Computer Limited 
' )  )      /      3500 Parkside                 Tel:   (+44) 121 717 7171
 /--' o _. /_      Birmingham Business Park      Fax:   (+44) 121 717 0123
/  \_<_(__/ <_     BIRMINGHAM  B37 7YS 
Richard Jones      United Kingdom                Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:03:27 -0700
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Shocks (USA) for LR IIA 88 ?

Anthony J. Bonanno <75034.3062@compuserve.com> wrote:

>The heavy duty shocks that I installed 22 years ago have finally worn out.
>Anyone have any recommendations for an over-the-counter  replacement shock here
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>costly would be nice too) that I should consider.   My LR is a 71 88" Series
>IIA.

I put Rancho 5000 shocks and steering stabilizer on my '72 Series III.  Wow,
what an improvement in my ride after nearly 16 years with the original set!
My steering wheel and tire shaking at high speed completely went away.  I
priced them locally and from DAP.  Both being about the same, I decided on
DAP since they knew the exact catalog numbers and had them in stock.

-Michael
 cs@crl.com

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Subject: Re: Discovery setup... 
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 13:36:25 -0700
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

Dave,

	Those air bag lifts have been standard kit for Camel trophy
competitors for a few years now, but they always seem to get a hole 
popped in them at the most inopportune moments. In the videos I have,
they mention several times "and here we see the team from blankety blank
having to resort to their hand jack after their air lift jack failed  while
changing a tire". Perhaps they have improved on them in recent times,
but it seems to me that these items are more suited to life ON hte highway
rather than OFF. What happens to you when your disco frame is hung on a jagged rock,
and right where you want to put your air lift is one of your trusty Arizona
cactus varieties, or another jagged rock for that matter. See where this is headed?
Not going to lift you very far. On the side of a nice smooth highway, they probably
work swell.

Rgds
Mike Fredette
D90, Portland, Orygun

PS. Did you find that billboard yet?

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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 22:37:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" <swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: Re: Overdrives...wha' happa'?

Yeah, what was the deal again?  please repost the original message....

Thnx, 
steve
Swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu

On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Russell G. Dushin wrote:

> > All, (Those interested in the overdrives)
> > I HAVE 8 CONFIRMED, NEED TWO MORE. 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> thanks in advance,
> rd/nigel

------------------------------
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From: mccauley@hba.trumpet.com.au (Tim McCauley)
Subject: YES  It's still Stuck...
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:46:57 LOCAL

 Hello again All

>Our big headache at the moment is getting the transfer unit out of the
>front chassis member.

Well the steering relay is still stuck fast.

Thanks to all the people that made suggestions about how to shift it. The
most popular being the use of a jack under the unit and let the weight of the 
vehicle do the work. A good theory but I obviously need a heavier vehicle.

Given that the chassis in the area of the relay seems to be in 
good repair we have decided to take up the suggestion that we replace the 
internal workings of the unit in situ. David McKain and our local parts 
supplier (who had a range of cautionary tales to relate about the potential 
damage to be done by over zealous attempts to remove it) both recommended his 
path.

The good news today is that a shiny, freshly painted, reconditioned 
steering box arrived in the mail this morning. As soon as the RAIN relents its 
full speed ahead with the refurbishment plans.
 
Now far be it from me to complain about this rain, we have been suffering 
drought conditions here of late, but why is it that the only time there is any 
sign of relief it has to conflict with my plans for outdoor activities. 
Working on the Landy and plans for a fishing trip both seem to be sure-fire 
rain-makers. 

If the local farmers ever get wind of this I might be forced to 
spend the rest of my life camped by a lake, in our Central Highlands, stalking 
trout. Wouldn’t that be terrible? ;-}

Tim 
For Tim And Jenny inc.

Well it's still raining and Sesame St. is on the box, so I'm off to the Pub.
Holidays you  Know.

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:12:58 -0700
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: buying land rover for use in UK

jed@teleport.com (Jim Edwards) wrote:

>A friend will be spending a year in Dublin. He is interested in buying a
>RHD SII or SIII 88" in either England or Ireland this summer and then
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>Does anyone know of any dealers he could contact or have one for sale? Any
>suggestions for insurance companies?

 Land Rover dealers are all over the place, and so are insurance companies.
 Reasonably priced Rovers are available from non-Rover affilliated sales lots
 and shops, and of course private parties.  Get a copy of LRO magazine to see
 current advertisements with photos of vehicles (available at most newsstands
 in the UK), and local papers with want ads.  The thing about British cars,
 you must have a MOT (Ministry Of Transport) certificate to register the
 vehicle, usually provided by the seller or as a condition of sale.  MOT
 certified mechanics check for safety items such as brakes and lights, and
 most importantly, the condition of the frame and body panels which tend to
 be corroded.  Also, the Brits have a higher tolerance of vehicle condition
 that you might find acceptable, ie, a Rover they may claim as in good shape
 may be barely driveable to you, or a vehicle billed as excellent might be
 average to your standards.

 Michael Carradine    Carradine Studios                   Tel.510-254-3324
 Architect            Architecture Development Planning   Pgr.510-945-5000
 NCARB RIBA           PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA           cs@crl.com

 Unimog WWW page at ftp://ftp.crl.com/users/cs/cs/unimog.html

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 23:25:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: To all those trying to attract the a

On Thu, 6 Apr 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote:

> for one believe that that fact should be made known. I mean, we're all here
> for the same thing, right? (Well, some *are* here for the beer!)  

	Some of us are here to find those that *are* here for the beer...

	Rgds,

	PS.. Bring *two* spares this year... :-)

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:52:48 -0700
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Introduction, etc.

 Peter Whitbeck (dafree@aol.com) wrote:
>Does anyone know where in the U.S. I can find a right rear body panel
 (original IIa with fuel inlet at front of panel) in good shape for the above?
 I've been able to find sIII panels but no sII.

 Well, Orinda you say, ...  Brad Davis (rovingnut@aol.com) has a right rear
 body panel.  Oh, errr, ...  he's still using it on his IIA though.  Maybe
 try Scotty's in Concord (510-686-2255).  He's moved a lot of his stuff to a
 friends place in the valley, but they will check their stash for you.  Or,
 try Geoff Tobin in San Luis Obispo (805-544-7927).  He's disassembled three
 II/IIA's and has a variety of parts and will even mail you an incomplete list.

>My other dilemna is in regard to stripping and painting the bulkhead. There
 is surface rust only, mostly in and around the seams caused by salt air from
 when I used to live near the ocean. Should I bite the bullet and remove the
 bulkhead, have it acid dipped and painted? Seems that sandblasting, using
 chemicals or trying to strip the thing while on the vehicle wouldn't get rid
 of the rust completely and/or permanently.  Any thoughts?

 Yea, bite the bullet!  After all, a rusty Rover reflects on the appearance
 of the species, and it just won't do to repair it halfway.

 PS- "DAFREE", is that as in "Rovers in the Land of DaFree"??

 Tread Lightly!

 Michael Carradine    Carradine Studios                   Tel.510-254-3324
 Architect            Architecture Development Planning   Pgr.510-945-5000
 NCARB RIBA           PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA           cs@crl.com

 Unimog WWW page at ftp://ftp.crl.com/users/cs/cs/unimog.html

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From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 02:43:12 -0400
Subject: Re: NEW SUBSCRIBER/AMATEUR RADIO

Chris.....
Agreed it is nice to see other hams with Rovers, or, vise versa.    Seems
some obsessions run hand in hand.    Call sign here is KD4FXA,   in Monroe
 NC.     Current Rovers include 1988 Range Rover, (my daily mule,  90k miles)
and a 'too nice' 1973 lllA 88" with only 38k.    Both outfitted for amateur
radio use,  though vhf/uhf only, no hf.    Other interests include Alfa
Romeos and photography.   Have former news photographer background.  Current
occupation is buying, restoring and selling/leasing Historic District homes.
  Correspondence   welcome.    73
Rick Crider
Monroe  NC
<rickcrider@aol.com>

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