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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 03:04:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Genuine Clunk-o-matic Drive

Taylor wonders.....

> well put together series IIa 88"?

NOPE....

> I hope the tranny is better than that.

YUP....

> Anybody know what I'm talking about?

Haven't a clue, actually.. What in blue blazes *are* you talking about??
Where did you get all these silly notions?? Who has been filling up your
head with all this muck and lies???

A "fairly well put together ser IIA" should shift fairly well. If, however,
you wind up with something beat up like my SerIII, it *will* go klunk and
grind and knash. Even so, I got six years out of it before the tranny went
crunch and locked up. And in that six years I did all sorts of on and off
road driving, parked the truck in mud past the bumper and at car shows next
to shiny Jags, moved farm implements with it, extracted a few stuck Toyota's
and Nissans (and reminded them it was a Land Rover that got them out) and
generally had a lot of fun with it.

So... what *are* you worried about???

  

 

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: mystery Rovers
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 03:43:34 -0700 (MST)

those surplus, crated Rovers of suspicious origin:

I have just learned that a Denver dealer who knows next to nothing about 
Rovers has bought 50 of them, and they are being shipped by train from 
Canada (Toronto, I think).  The dealer does not wish to be identified.  
He may have acquired an albatross.  I'll let you know if and when I hear 
more.

T. F. Mills                                              tomills@du.edu
University of Denver Library  2150 E. Evans Ave.  Denver  CO 80208  USA
      http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction)

------------------------------

From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: RR mpg: new vs old
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 10:55:59 GMT

Stefan R. Jacob suggests:

>I know the performance and economy of the EFI makes the mouths of owners
>of older carbed V8s water...

Actually, no it doesn't.  The big heavy 4 door EFI's are lucky to get
18mpg, worse for > 3.5 engines.  My light little 2-dr (;-)) gets
20mpg+ on Stombergs.  A lot of people over here in UK know that.

You only get the newer RR's in the States I believe.  The old ones are
better for what I want in many ways.  (The debate runs along the lines
of the series/non-series stuff the list is so full of.)

Get one Dixon (they're harder to bend at the back)!  And they're not
much quieter than my Lightweight was, plus the gearbox drips about the
same too - at least it takes engine oil!

Cheers,
Steve.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 11:38:14 GMT
From: Bill Caloccia <caloccia>
Subject: Re:  RR mpg: new vs old

Subject: RR mpg: new vs old
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 10:55:59 GMT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: R

Stefan R. Jacob suggests:

>I know the performance and economy of the EFI makes the mouths of owners
>of older carbed V8s water...

Steve Methley writes:
> Actually, no it doesn't.  The big heavy 4 door EFI's are lucky to get
> 18mpg, worse for > 3.5 engines.  My light little 2-dr (;-)) gets
> 20mpg+ on Stombergs.  A lot of people over here in UK know that.

Gee mine gets about 18mpg on the road...
 (and about half that on short runs about town.)

>Get one Dixon (they're harder to bend at the back)!  And they're not
>much quieter than my Lightweight was, plus the gearbox drips about the
>same too - at least it takes engine oil!

Not only that, for the same mileage as a states-side D90, you can carry
four passengers, and still have enough room for a cooler and a Newfie to 
stretch out in the back.

(Though the Newfie couldn't sit up, so maybe put the passengers in the
back and the Newfie and the cooler in the middle. :-)

    Cheers,
        --bill  caloccia@Team.Net       caloccia@Stratus.Com

       1  3     dl OD  L          "Land Rover's first, becuase
       |--|--+  o  |   |           Land Rovers last."
       2  4  R     N   H          '72 Range Rover 

------------------------------

From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re:  RR mpg: new vs old (fwd)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 11:53:54 GMT

> Gee mine gets about 18mpg on the road...
>  (and about half that on short runs about town.)

Tune it, dude!

> Not only that, for the same mileage as a states-side D90, you can carry
> four passengers, and still have enough room for a cooler and a Newfie to 
> stretch out in the back.

OK you got me, what's a Newfie?

Cheers,
Steve (never been below 15mpg!, well maybe 12 once..)

------------------------------

From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl
Subject: Mark's starter woes & simul. lights
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:54:04 MET

Mark,

your details about the starter relay woes in combination with all 
lights coming on with the ignition gives me the following thought:

"No/defective earthing strap from the battery to the car body." 

If that's the case, any body mounted (is it) relay will not work 
becuase of a resistive return line. In addition, the body will be 
on a higher potential than the battery and engine earth. The earth 
strap to the engine is ok if the starter turns. 

Clues in this direction are also if you can modulate the temperature 
dial with your headlights, and if they're showing relatively high. 
Try measuring a voltage drop between the body and the battery earth 
terminal after you've switched on something heavy (lights, fan). You 
can expect some mVs but not more. Alternatively, earth the battery to the
body with an additional strong piece of wire. It maybe that this solves
your problems.

Good luck,

Richard P. Kleihorst.

------------------------------

From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl
Subject: Bill D.T.'s carb problems.
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:06:59 MET

Bill D.T.

I'm not (yet) too familiar with the Zenith, but the jerky behaviour 
you're observing without choke (and warm engine) might indicate 
small particles of dirt in the carb. Pulling out the choke slightly
will compensate for the fuel starvation by putting more vacuum to draw 
more fuel beyond the dirt particle. 

Note that dirt is not like wear but something that happens from yesterday. 
You can diagnose the position of the dirt particle by observing in which
"carb phase" problems occur, idling phase, overtaking phase, normal phase. 
Stubborn running in the idling phase can also be because of a bad mixture 
setting. 

Note that the "practical classics" magazine dealt with Zenith IV overhaul 
in the Jan.(?) or Feb.(?) issue of this year. 

Happy carburating,

Richard P. Kleihorst

------------------------------

From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl
Subject:  Tie rod ends and bulkhead/firewall repairs.
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 14:04:48 MET

I was able to remove the tie-rods of the '63 "109 last sunday. 
After soaking in penetrating oil for a couple of days and some 
hammering like Bill mentioned and a -little- heat from a propane 
torch, they finally came out. I had to use a 4 foot wrench and 
a lot of effort to get them started. New ones are in with 
a smear of anti-seize. Never dealt with tie-rods that were this 
seized! I plan to loosen all six up to be able to set the steering 
geometry, they're soaking right now. 

Saterday and sunday, I've been repairing the left footwell and lower
inches of the left A-post. To gain access to the firewall/bulkhead I 
removed the fender/wing. Love this car! this is a piece of cake on 
the LR. it took me (novice) 5 minutes. Removal of the door took only 
1 minute. (How long does a car thief need?). Anyway, welded in some
repair pieces and took some time to get it all painted. 

While the fender was off I enjoyed the access to the steering box and
master brake cylinder. I will try to perform the swap to dual lines 
this weekend (if the weather permits). I also will start, and probably 
finish, repairs on the right footwell. 

Just one tiny question this time. Where do you get vacuum for the booster
from a Diesel? The Peugeot Diesel engine fitted has some awkward belt-driven 
device with hoses to the intake manifold and the oil filler cap. The oil
filler cap is hermetically closed for other air sources. I don't think that
this device is, or can be used as a vacuum source. It probably is part of
the PCV system. From the housing it seems that it holds some membrame pump.
I do have the original (worn) 2.25 series II Diesel in the pile of parts, but 
that wasn't meant for power brakes.

So, because of the lack of a vacuum source, I'm still contemplating putting 
just the dual master in without the booster despite Stefan's warning, sorry 
for the thought Stefan, and see how it behaves...  At least I know 
what's wrong when it doesn't behave well.
  
Greetings to all. 

Richard P. Kleihorst, '60 (II) 88" dismantled, '63 (IIa) 109" pre-use repair.
.     

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Oldies adn newbies again :(
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:33:52 UNDEFINED

\If your the type that chases down every squeek & rattle, you'll have your
\hands full.  A Rover is mechanically straight forward & easy to work on.
\ It's basically an overgrown Erector Set, built to be fixed with a rock & a
\hammer while stuck in a sand dune.

[]

\Dixon's at it again.

\>       What do you see the III offering that is so much better than a IIA?
\>       Granted the III has a lot to offer over a 90, but...
\
\        What is it with you that you feel this compulsion to bash the newer
\Land Rover vehicles and by default, their owners?! You seem to never miss an 
\opening to stick it to us. I fail to understand why you think that any Land
\Rover
\less than 25-30 years old is junk. We went round the mullberry bush on this
\once before, but is it because you're jealous because of the cost, or what
\exactly?

Mike's at it again!!!

The big advantage of the Series 3 ove the 90 is explained by the first 
paragraph.

The Series 3 is far easier to work on in the back of nowhere, with nothing.

The 90 is a much better vehicle on and off the road, but isnt something you 
can do as much to in the bush with a stick adn your teeth.

What do I own? A 90. Do I feel personally insutled when Dixon outlines the 
advantages of the Series 3? No - I am not cursed with paranoia.

Neither vehicle is perfect. They each fulfil a different niche. The 90 is for 
those with mechanical backup. The Series is for those without. The modern 
world is such that Landrover have correctly identified the former as the 
biggest market.

I was a year too late for a Series :(  I like Meccano.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re:  Genesis redux
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:39:33 UNDEFINED

/Reports opf the Disco kil;ling the Defender may be premature to say the
/least -- I was reading while in the Garden of England that Defender sales
/are up strongly.

Over here, they are bought by farmers as work tools. less by posers as status 
transport. Farmers aint going to buy a Disco.........

I predict the 90 will be around longer than the Disco, cos more folk buy em.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Genesis redux
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 14:07:23 GMT

> /Reports opf the Disco kil;ling the Defender may be premature to say the
> /least -- I was reading while in the Garden of England that Defender sales
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)]
>         Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
> +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Er,that's a bit of a sweeping statement,Andy.I admit I'd like to
think it was true,though.Disco's outnumber Defender's(ugh,horrble
name,try Land Rover's)down here by a goodly margin.Mind you,most of
our farms are on set aside,whereas you still have hill farmers in
business,so whats true of Wales,may not be true of elsewhere.Nice to
hear,though.
I'm going to an open I.Mech.E Lecture here tonight.Subject:-
"The New Rover 4X4 Vehicle"given by Howerd Whittaker of Land Rover.
We'll see.......
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 09:40:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner...

On Tue, 14 Feb 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote:

> Oh, Darn! My '71 IIa doesn't have a hand throttle.... The other '71 IIa (now
> a pile of parts) didn't have one either... Shucks!

	Interesting...  They all seem to have it up here.  I guess I should
	not have let some of them go to the garbage last year.  I thought
	they were really common.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 09:48:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: US Camel Trials report 

On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, T.F. Mills wrote:

> Mundo Maya in May.  Twenty countries will be participating, including 
> Germany, Italy, South Africa and UK.  Which begs the question:  why isn't 
> OVLR fielding a team?!  And our friends from Oz?  And Soren Aurens, the 
> one-man Danish team?  You guys would have the edge -- most Camel 
> contestants don't have prior knowledge of Land Rovers.

	LRC has mentioned in the past something about benefits from 
	sponsering something Canadian.  Not there...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 09:39:02 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Parts swap

Club member Dick Holmes, who keeps his '67 Dormobile over at Diesel Bob's,
brought over his Grand Cherokee the other day to swap out the clutch master
cylinder.  Turns out it is an *exact* replacement for the "CV" style clutch
master with integral reservoir as found on late IIa and III Rovers.  The
only difference is it has an extra rubber dust cap.  While this wouldn't
make sense from a price standpoint (by and large, Rover parts are *far*
cheaper than American car parts, particularly when OEM or dealer-
purchased), it might be useful in an emergency situation.  They didn't pull
apart the internals to compare rebuild kit compatibility, but it did come
with a packet of red rubber grease.  If anyone is interested, I'll get part
numbers and exact prices.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 09:53:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: RR mpg: new vs old

On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Steve Methley wrote:

> Get one Dixon (they're harder to bend at the back)!  And they're not
> much quieter than my Lightweight was, plus the gearbox drips about the
> same too - at least it takes engine oil!

	Not to worry, a carb'd RR is on the list of toys to acquire from
	merry 'ol England at this time (unless of course the price of the
	domestic versions drops a bit more to a reasonable level.  I will
	need a Saab replacement in a few years & a RR would be ideal)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 08:16:32 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Fw: chevy info

Good News, all!  Scotty is getting on-line!  Anyway, Some comments on 
engine swaps he asked me to pass on...

---- Forwarded from JHowat@aol.com: 
hi roger! my head hurts

concering message  i read about conversions please  pass on the following:
The six cylinder Chevy engine has plenty of power (about 150hp) for your 
Land
Rover and makes a good conversion. You would, however have to move the
radiator forward and remove the hood latch among other small modifications.
The V-8 has plenty of power too, but requires much more adaptation. Also, I
feel that it is really too much for the Land Rover running gear.

Having evolved the Chevy-to-Rover conversion over the past 20 years ( there
have been over 500 done world-wide), I am finding that the most 
satisfactory
conversion to date is the Chevy 4 Cylinder "Iron Duke". It consists of a
basic engine swap, with no cutting or moving of engine compartment units, 
ie;
radiator, mounts, controls, etc. The power-to weight ratio is extremely 
good.
Horsepower can vary, depending on the engine build-up, from approx. 90hp to
140hp or more.

If you would like to give me a call at 510-686-2255 (California) during
business hours, I'd be happy to talk to you more about the conversion. 

Jim "Scotty" Howat 

raise you 10 blues

---- End of forwarded message ----

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: More Undiscovered Rovers?
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 16:22:08 GMT

A mate of mine asked me yesterday whether I had ever heard of
any steel bodied Land Rovers,biult/used in Portugal.Turns out
a friend of his had been offered some.My answer was that apart
from the Royal Review Rovers,the only other ones I could think
of were Belgian Minervas.He reckoned that another bloke he was
talking to who used to be involved with mining equipment for
underground use had also heard of some.Apparently the National
Coal Board(as was) had the bright idea of using Land Rovers for
underground transprt,but the snag was that they didnt allow
aluminium underground.He'd heard of the steel bodied ones,but
they had alloy engines which put the kybosh on the theory
for good.(Despite this fact,the local extensive gypsum mines
use plenty of diesel Land Rovers underground,and have for years).
So,are these mythical creatures *really* Land Rovers per se?Or
is it a generic name for UMM Alter's?Or did Santana build steel
bodied aluminium engined diesel's for the Portugese Army(They are
apparently ex Army).Or are they in fact Minerva's?If so,an *alloy*
engine?It would have to be diesel,because petrol's arent allowed
undergruond,I dont think.Andy,isnt the 2.5d and the 2.5Turbo D
cast iron,like the old 2.25?Any ideas,anyone?
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 17:06:13 GMT
From: Bill Caloccia <caloccia>
Subject: Re:  RR mpg: new vs old (fwd)

> Gee mine gets about 18mpg on the road...
>  (and about half that on short runs about town.)

Tune it, dude!
	Actually it could probably use some looking after, but it does 
	have a luminition ignition system.  The major part of my local
	mileage is a short commute to work - about 2.5 miles with about
	8 lights/stops and I'm half way there by the choke light goes out.

	With a few side trips I can get it from 2 to 2.5 or 3 miles per
	liter.  I haven't taken any long trips recently, but last time
	I got 4m/l (~18 mpg).

> Not only that, for the same mileage as a states-side D90, you can carry
> four passengers, and still have enough room for a cooler and a Newfie to 
> stretch out in the back.

OK you got me, what's a Newfie?
	newfoundland: any of a breed of very large heavy highly intelligent
			usually black dogs developed in Newfoundland
	(my friend's 18 month old newfie was 10 1/2 stone and stood 41" high)

If you know what a Great Pyrenees looks like (any of a breed of large
heavy-coated white dogs that resemble the Newfoundland), then think of the
same in black.  

Newfies have a habit of dragging people out of the water, and Pyrs have a
habit of herding things.

> Steve (never been below 15mpg!, well maybe 12 once..)

	I don't reckon I'll do that well if I make it to the RTV this weekend.

 -B

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: CanyonLands NP.
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 10:10:41 PST

Do we have anyone from the CanyonLands/Moab area who si familer with
that area, this time of year? I am planning a to be there next
week(feb 20 thru the 26). Any ideas on the trail conditions? I would like
to get over to the maze district as I have only traveled the trail at
night.(serious lack of judgment on my part)
Any tip, good trails, or other info would be helpful.
The following week I will be heading to Colorado to do some CC sking, and
camping. My present plan is to do some camping at Rocky Mountain NP. As
I will be  on my one in Co. I do not plan getting too remote. (at least
if you have a partner you can fight for the last meal, winner eats all)

Thanks
Russ Burns
D-90 headed west

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:14:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: More Undiscovered Rovers?

On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Mike Rooth wrote:

> A mate of mine asked me yesterday whether I had ever heard of
> any steel bodied Land Rovers,biult/used in Portugal.

	Not in Portugal, but in Canada.  Canadian National Railways
	(Crown corporation) had some steel bodied 109 pick-ups
	built for them by Solihull.  Look identical to the aluminium
	bodied ones, but steel instead.  I know where a couple are,
	but the owner wants hidious amounts of ca$h for them...

	rGDS,

	BTW, they are IIA's I believe.

------------------------------

From: Spenny@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:33:28 -0500
Subject: Re: LRO Sign

The sign is excellent!

S/oren, i have misplaced your address, so i can't e-mail you directly, can
you re-send the file to me? there was an error
so i can't print the sign.
sorry to waste bandwidth...

Spenny

Spencer K. C. Norcross                               Spenny@aol.com
Haverhill, Mass. USA
508-373-1788 (W)                                508-521-4093 (H)
508-521-1380 (FAX)
===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--===
1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine
Now with most of the Federally requred electrics!

Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway!
What will they think of next!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:38:10 -0500
From: afpgreg@gatekeeper.ddp.state.me.us (Paul V. Gregory)
Subject: ARO--Now Another LR Wannabe 

        A 4x4 Yugo?  Well, perhaps in spirit. Today's Bangor (Maine) Daily
News ran an Associated Press story out of Dallas re: ARO's "debute" at the
NADA convention.
        The long and the short? Several Floridians say they'll bring in the
Romanian SUV in May, starting with 10 to 12 dealers who will target the East
Coast first.  
        Aros will come in two and four-door versions, with a 1.8 litre four
in the former, and a 180 h.p., 2.9 litre Cosworth V-6. Takes no rocket
scientist on this end to predict Aro's target market will be defined by the
vehicles' prices: $7,995 for the 2-door; $9,828 for the four-door. Also
offered on both models are a driver' side airbag and a 36,000-mile warrantee.
        According to the AP reporter, "The vehicles resemble an older model
Land Rover, with a boxy shape and upright stands. Both fit and finish are
somewhat crude but the interior on the display mdoles was quite plush."  The
reporter goes on, "Trotman [The Florida importer] says he isn't worried that
Eastern European vehicles might have a poor reputation among Americans who
experienced the Yugo in the 1980s. "If there's a long-term plan in place for
parts, service and warantees, those problems will take care of themselves,
he [Trotman] says.""

        Rambling commentary: Some dealers here in Maine tried (and failed)
importing the Aro in the late 1980s, available only as a two door and with a
Ford 2.3 litre V-6 engine.  There are a couple buzzing around Portland and
one parks on occasion in my office lot here in Augusta. The vehicle's lines
are--to me--rather attractive, but their slavic hertitage is obvious: the
coachwork appeared cheap in construction and paintwork was poor.  Never
drove in one, so I cannot report on performance.  
        The AP reporter's comparison of ARO to LR makes me wonder how much
of a SUV market can ultimately be sustained in the U.S?  What does it do for
the value of our Landies? (Not that I really care, but the perceived
appreciation of my '65 S.II-A buys me a lot of tolerance from my girlfriend.
Bless her practical heart.)  
        Lastly, I feel de je vue (all over again) when this SUV is said to
resemble the venerable Land Rover.  It's like when a Mazda Miata pulls up in
traffic next to me while I'm sitting in my Lotus Elan.  More than often the
Miata driver will crook his or her head from side to side as if a cocker
spaniel.  
                                                Priggishly (I can't help it,
really!) 
                                                --Paul          

------------------------------

From: "John R. Benham" <BENHAM@WFOCLAN.USBM.GOV>
Date:          Tue, 14 Feb 1995 10:49:22 +1100
Subject:       Land Rover vs. Hummer - again!

Dear LRO's,

    Recently a group of paramilitary types with their respective 
vehicles challenged themselves on a wintery weekend of camping and 
what not(?) here in the Northwest.  Of their assorted vehicles, two 
were older Land Rovers, one a newer 110 Land Rover, and one a new 
Hummer.  On Sunday morning after a very cold evening, they all started 
their vehicles except - you guessed it - the Hummer.  It took all the 
mechanical talent of their group plus a compilation of various tools 
and about three hours of tinkering to get it started.  Then on the 
way back to Spokane, it broke down again and was left on the side of 
the road until a proper repair could take place.

    Maybe the Hummer can do this and that, but can it be depended on 
mechanically?  Did AM General grossly over engineered it?  The Land 
Rover has a reputation of getting you back home.  What is the Hummers 
reputation? 

    I was not present at this gathering but heard about it second 
hand from our local Rover circle.

Later,

John R. Benham
Spokane, WA  USA
1968 IIA 88 `Bwana Mobile'

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:57:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: LRO Sign

On Tue, 14 Feb 1995 Spenny@aol.com wrote:

> The sign is excellent!

	I agree.  If there were any suggestions, a tire on the bonnet of the
	soft-top might look interesting.

	Rgds,

------------------------------

From: C Taylor Sutherland III <taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Subject: IRC chatting...
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 15:08:25 -0500 (EST)

Too bad there isn't a regular channel on IRC that some real time
conversations couldn't take place...

Oh BTW, the klunka-klunka I was talking about was this.  Imagine
every time you changed gears it sounded like what you would expect if
you were to just slam on the brakes and let the truck hop to a stop
and stall.  That is the kind of klunka I'm talking about, and I get
that frequently with the tranny on my Blazer, which is one of the
major reasons I want to get rid of it.

The only other Rover I have driven would be the '93 Defender 90,
before they put the same gear box as is in the Disco.  Compare the
shifting of a series rover in good shape to that as that is the only
link I have.  Try to be nice. :)

Taylor...any body want to buy a slightly used S-Blazer?  :-)

------------------------------

Subject: Re: The pot was stirred 
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:14:04 -0800
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

Dixon,

	Well it would seem that I/we have overdone things a bit.
I can certainly see your points about certain owners of the newer
vehicles,(even the older ones on occassion),wanting the image but
having no notion of the history, or giving a shit even if they did.
I guess I have been a bit sensative because there are a few here in
Portland who fall into that catagory. I also must agree with your 
assessment of the parts situation for vintage cars, though in 30 years
I would hope the D90 would enjoy the same benefits as to parts
availability. As you say, if there's a buck to be made, someone will
be making it. I also realize you're enjoying these little tete a tete's
as am I <bg>. But it would appear that Mom is not so I guess we'll have 
to cut back. I'll quit being so thin skinned, if you'll quit painting
with such a broad brush. Though you have been as you say, rather quiet 
of late in your bashing, missing many golden oportunities. Anyway, I'd love
to come out to your mudfest, but where the hell is Nepean, Ontario? Obviously
North, but East or West of the Great Lakes. How far do I have to drive?
You guys should think about a trip this summer early. Doug Shipman is doing an 
event around Memorial day weekend or so. It'll be a Camel Trophy style team event, two guys
per vehicle, two vehicles per team,limited to 40 teams max. 50 bucks per vehicle to register
which will cover our insurance, permits, prizes. The Pacific Northwest 4-wheel Drive Assoc
is the sponsoring body, but it will be open to all 4wheelers. At first we were going to try 
and limit this to short wheelbase vehicles, but some of the pickup guys got steamed so we
had to let them in. Which is fine because the courses will not be quite so hard on bodywork.
There will be special tasks, orienteering, winching, the whole nine yards, but team oriented.
It'll be here in Portland, on some of the same trails Doug uses for his Northwest Challenge,
which are pretty hairy at times. We've got some cool prize sponsors, Warn and Superwinch will
be giving away some big stuff, ARB will pop for some air-lockers and other stuff. 
	Again,  let's bury the hatchet,(if there ever was one)there's room for all of us here on
the list. Actually, this list is about the most civil there is. Some of the other folk out there
can get outright nasty.
									Rgds
								Mike Fredette
								D90(former Series III)
								90 Range Rover
								Portland, Oregon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:05:22 -0800
From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess)
Subject: great stuff expanding foam

Howdy,

Dave Place asked about expanding foam;  I've seen a spray can of the stuff
in the local hardware store.  It's called "great stuff"  and sounds (from
the label) like what you're looking for.  I haven't used it but if you
need, I can copy the company name and address from a can.  My recollecetion
is that the stuff isn't cheap but if it expands to a great degree, you
won't need more than a couple cans to to four doors!

Good luck.

John Hess, PhD                    Phone me 916 752 8420
Dept of Human Anatomy             FAX me (ask first or I may get in trouble)
University of Calif
Davis, CA                         Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:22:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Lightweight Advert.

Here's an interesting ad that appeared in the Collector's Cars section of 
the San Francisco Chronicle today.  I have no idea who is selling, or 
what's condition of the vehicle.  I was amazed at the asking price, and 
thought a few others (especially those in the UK) might also be intrigued.

"LAND ROVER. Rare air-portable (LT WT) RAF, 88".  Ferry O/D.  $10,000.  
209-754-5802 days; 209-754-1256 eves/wknds."

A quick check of the classifieds in LRO Mag suggests that there is 
something like a 3x premium for this "rare" vehicle.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
           Walter C. Swain          |  wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu (Home)
           Davis Community Network  |               <or>
           Davis, California        |  wcswain@silva.wr.usgs.gov (Work)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 16:47:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Lightweight Advert.

On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu) wrote:

> A quick check of the classifieds in LRO Mag suggests that there is 
> something like a 3x premium for this "rare" vehicle.

	If in good shape, this is about the going rate for one of these 
	in North America.  LRO is the U.K. prices.  For a overview of
	N.A. prices, check out Hemmings.  If this is in really good shape,
	it is probably cheap.

	Rgds,

------------------------------

From: Kelly Minnick <minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: Fighting
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 14:28:57 PST

RE: Fighting and bickering
You guys sound like my kids!  What's the deal?  I four wheel with anyone who
loves to get out and enjoy nature no matter what he is in.  He's only con-
sidered a snob if he can't take an expensive toy off-road.  I had a '87 RR and
took it everywhere I have taken my '64 and '73.  I do have to admit that the
maintenance on the RR was much less than the series.  I didn't loose any
fillings on the trip, either.  And in the desert, the AC was nice.  Still,
I didn't feel at liberty to just drill the dash and add all kinds of stuff
to the dash, or replce genuine LR parts with easier to get american replace-
ments.  To each their own.  Really!  I love both.  If I could afford it, I
would keep my series, buy the D90, and have a Disco for the wife/family for
the long trips up North.  I do resent some of the SNOB appeal I've been getting
from the dealers in the LA area as I am now trying to buy either and older
RR ('90 or '91) or a new stripped Disco.  These people act like they are doing
me a favor by letting me buy one of these things.  I don't need a FAX machine
in the dash, thank you.  No, I don't make $300K a year, either...  I suppose
after working with doctors and lawyers, one looses sight...  I met 12 HUM VEE
owners on the Sherman jeep (?) trail last year in my SIII.  Wanted to ask the
guy a bunch of questions, but he didn't have the time of day for me.  As they
drove off, one of the guys yells, ' Hey, nice defender!'.  i.e. you can't
judge people by what they are driving.  I could be a snob in a Pinto or Vega.
I do feel that the LA crowd promotes this attitude, though.  Too bad.  Don't
know if the D90 is better or worse.  Probably both!  Be nice, & have fun.
That's what it is all about.
Kelly Minnick  '73 88" Safari
Ridgecrest, CA

p.s.  I AM jealous of you D90 owners...!

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 18:07:44 -0500
Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted.

Best Rover? - 1968-9 IIa  88,  2.25 petrol, tropical roof or canvas.

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 18:45:23 -0500
Subject: FreeWheeling

Jeff Berg makes my point!  If hubs don't increase MPG (the don't), and they
are an expense (the are), they increase maintenance (they may, if you don't
periodically use them), and they decrease performance (they will, if they
aren't locked when you need them), and they are a hassle (they are, when you
have to get out in the snow or mud to engage them, or when you have to
periodically lock/unlock them to keep them lubed), WHY BOTHER?  Hubs were
invented for CJ's and the like.  These cars had serious drive train problems
without this band-aid approach.  I have been in enough situations where hard
surface suddenly turned to mud, slush, snow, or wet clay that I am glad I
never had them, AND with 25 years, 1/3 million miles, and $0 maintenance on
the front end of Lulubelle, I can't seem to see the down-side of driving the
truck the way it was intended.

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 18:55:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Hand trottles

The hand throttle was pre-'70's part that was fitted to keep the engine at
revs while working outside the truck with PTO equipment (most commonly, a
capstain winch).  It looked a lot like the dash vent lever mounted
horizontally under the dash.

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 19:00:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Genuine Clunk-o-matic Drive

Taylor, I don't think you really want a Rover.  You're asking too much.  All
of the old Rover trannies clunk.  It's part of the charm.  

So far, if I'm keeping track correctly, you want a LR but you think it's too
drafty, too noisy, too under-powered, too uncomfortable, too much
maintenance, and now you don't like how the transmission shifts.  BUT YOU DO
WANT THE IMAGE!  I think you're going to be one unhappy fella if you buy a
Rover.

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 


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