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From: Falco@Microserve.com (Falco)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 07:09:15 EST
Subject: digest version?

is there a digest version of this mailing list.  if so how can i subscribe to
it

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be afraid to be weak,  Don't be too proud to be strong
Just look into your heart my friend,  That will be the return to yourself
                The return to Innocence                         (Enigma2)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: SE THOMAS <THOMSE-U@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk>
Date:         13 Feb 95 13:01:46 GMT
Subject:      *Shell* shocked.........

I recently announced that my 2.25 was in fact a 2 litre diesel. This
at the time didn't bother me, I never expected startling performance,
I just wanted to improve the 15-18 mpg fuel consumption. It turns out
the bore was okay, and that the main problem was the valve guides
which had no oil seals and were permitting oil to pour into the
pistons. So in pursuit of oil control rings (suggested by the people
doing the work) for the gap below the gudgeon pin (which 'the
shop',name witheld, I phoned assured they had) and other
*consumables* such as main and big-end shells, I set off.
On arrival at the shop the existence of oil control rings or a twenty
ring set, present or past, was totally denied (they didn't even
confirm this with me at first, they just put the set on the bench).
To top this (although this wasn't their fault....it just came on top
of the ring fiasco) they informed me that the 30 quid set of main
bearings for a 2.25 were 100 quid for the equivalent 2 litre shells.
I didn't even ask about the big end shells.......
In dismay I left only purchasing top and bottom hoses, and the
outcome is that I shall be rebuilding the engine (turkey??) with
existing bearings and a new set of 16 rings. I will replace the valve
guides (2.25 interchangeable) and hopefully the pre-combustion
chambers (are they the same as the 2.25 too?? They may also be known
as Swirl chambers/ Hot Spots etc.), which are cracked.
In the short term this should give me an engine for the Landy, with
probably better consumption than before, and will enable me to
save/search for a good 2.25. I want to stay diesel for the fuel, even
though they are a bit more expensive.

Any-one want a 2 litre diesel, good runner but impossible to afford
replacement parts for??????????

Stephen Thomas

"How come it never rains, it only pours. They looked into each
other's eyes....." - The Dogs D'amour, 'How come it never rains'

------------------------------

Date: 13 Feb 95 08:42:25 EST
From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Who'se from Clarkson?

Who is at Clarkson on this list?

Is there a Land Rover haunting the campus of my Alma Mater?

Enquiring Alumni Want to know!

Cheers. 

R. Pierce Reid
'62 IIa 88 Military
Clarkson Class of 88 -- Tech. Communications

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 08:59:42 -0500
From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens)
Subject: Re: Waterproof Sealant

I used that 3M calking...comes rolled in a strip...to outline floor boards
and seat box. The good thing about this stuff, I am told, is it can be
easily removed. So far no leaks.

>I remember reading on this  digest a discussion about sealant for the floors
>>and seatbox. Any recommend any good sealant ??

Chris Stevens                   1969 SRIIA 88"
Towson, Maryland
(410) 583-1722
(410) 583-1935 (FAX)
chrisste@Clark.net

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: TARC
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 08:59:00 EST

Errata; I sent the wrong address for the Toronto Area Rover Club because I 
had been given it wrongly.
The correct one for anyone who wants to join at $22 can or $16 us is:-
c/o  Philip Rodrigues
17 Jordonroch Court,
Scarborough, ONT
MIW 3S9 (Please mention Internet referal)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 09:18:56 -0500
From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner)
Subject: Re: Why a L-R?

Hat's off to you Gerry, for thoughts on why to choose a Land Rover!

I kept thinking today as I was driving my Rover, that I was quite content
to be driving it and not my Volvo, even though it was -20 here in Canada,
and the Volvo would have been a lot warmer. It really is the character and
charisma of the Rover which makes the difference. I would miss it a lot! I
plan to keep driving it as long as I am able, then pass it on to my son to
take care of.

Cheers!

Richard Wegner                      74 Land Rover Series III 88
RR 4                                   - workhorse, travelling companion
Quyon Quebec
Canada  J0X 2V0                     67 Austin Healey 3000 - for fun!
rwegner@fimage.synapse                 - currently under restoration

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 09:55:43 -0500
From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner)
Subject: Techno-Weld

On page 60 of the February issue of LRO, it mentions a new innovative
aluminium fusion welding process called Techno-Weld. I was wondering if any
folks in UK could shed some light on this process, or provide the phone
number or fax for Techno-Weld of Aston, Oxfordshire.

Cheers!

Richard Wegner                      74 Land Rover Series III 88
RR 4                                   - workhorse, travelling companion
Quyon Quebec
Canada  J0X 2V0                     67 Austin Healey 3000 - for fun!
rwegner@fimage.synapse                 - currently under restoration

------------------------------

From: SE THOMAS <THOMSE-U@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk>
Date:         13 Feb 95 15:47:59 GMT
Subject:      Re: *Shell* shocked.........

Mike,
thanks for putting me straight on the rings, at the time I could only
go on what I'd been told.....I should have aired it here first and
saved myself all the hassle!
Stephen

"Thing's just seem to go wrong, far too many times"
The Dogs D'amour, 'Things just seem to go wrong'

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 11:18:25 -0500
Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner...

Taylor asks:  <but I do like using my phone and spotlight from time to time,
and, if I do put a radio of sorts in it, I wouldn't mind using my cd player.
 A radio would be easy, putting speakers in it would be difficult.  :)>  

A cell phone works from a moving LR, but you have to shout, and expect
comments like "Are you calling from a steel mill?".  Forget the CD player
(call it Skippy).  Forget the radio.  I've done them both.  Enjoy the
contemplative sounds of moving metal.  Anything that has to be played through
a speaker has to be turned up so loud that it's holy distortion.  Unless, of
course, you spend the $$ to turn your truck into a BOOM-Rover.  Yech!  

< True, I'll have to get used to getting out to lock the hubs>  

DON'T DO IT!  Hubs are a damned invention of the domestic crowd.  I don't
know who sold you on the idea of hubs, but you don't need them.  They're a
real minus on a Rover.

<no cruise control>  

Its got cruise!  You just jam your foot to the floor and leave it.  Or if you
want the ORIGINAL cruise control (long before Detroit), get one of the old LR
hand trottles.

<So which one would you prefer?  The IIa or the III?> 

No contest.  The IIa is the better machine.  No polution crud on the engine.
 A REAL metal dashboard.  A better (& funkier) transmission.  Air vents that
suck real bugs into the cab.

<how much work I  should expect to do on a rover.>  

If your the type that chases down every squeek & rattle, you'll have your
hands full.  A Rover is mechanically straight forward & easy to work on.
 It's basically an overgrown Erector Set, built to be fixed with a rock & a
hammer while stuck in a sand dune.

Tony

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:40:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner...

On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 Sanna@aol.com wrote:

> DON'T DO IT!  Hubs are a damned invention of the domestic crowd.  I don't
> know who sold you on the idea of hubs, but you don't need them.  They're a
> real minus on a Rover.

	Matter of debate really...  I keep them locked driving about town,
	but it helps if you can unlock them for the highway...

> Its got cruise!  You just jam your foot to the floor and leave it.  Or if you
> want the ORIGINAL cruise control (long before Detroit), get one of the old LR
> hand trottles.

	I have yet to see a IIA sold in the NADA that didn't have one of 
	these...

	Rgds,

------------------------------

Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted. 
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 10:25:50 -0800
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

Dixon's at it again.

>	What do you see the III offering that is so much better than a IIA?
>	Granted the III has a lot to offer over a 90, but...

	What is it with you that you feel this compulsion to bash the newer
Land Rover vehicles and by default, their owners?! You seem to never miss an 
opening to stick it to us. I fail to understand why you think that any Land Rover
less than 25-30 years old is junk. We went round the mullberry bush on this
once before, but is it because you're jealous because of the cost, or what exactly?
Someday you'll have to come down to Portland for the Nothwest Challenge and we'll
see who has the better equipment. Statements like "Call me in 30 years" are rather silly
considering that you are ALWAYS repairing your 30 year old vehicles anyway. In 30 years,
I'm quite sure the D90's will need work too. (Hint, here's where you take your shot). I'll
be able to buy parts, but will you? Will Land Rover still support the 60 year old Series
trucks? Silly to speculate on, so let's keep things in the present for the sake of
sane discussion. In the present here and now, the D90 IS a superior vehicle, particularly
in TDi form. Pity they don't import it to the US.
								Rgds
								Mike Fredette
								Portland, Or
								D90

------------------------------

From: "John R. Benham" <BENHAM@WFOCLAN.USBM.GOV>
Date:          Mon, 13 Feb 1995 10:49:12 +1100
Subject:       Lockheed Brake Shoes

Dear LRO's,

WARNING ON BRAKE SHOES:

    This weekend I installed new brake shoes on my 1968 IIA 88.  The 
shoes that were sent to me were the Lockheed BS-053.  Everything on 
them was identical to the Girlings except the hole diameter and 
thread pitch was different for the lower retainer ring/plate bolts.  
So a 30 minute/wheel job took a lot longer since I had to redrill and 
thread the two holes on each respective shoe per wheel.  And yes, the 
brakes work great now!

    Lesson learned: Before one orders brake shoes, one should ask if 
they are identical to the Girlings!

    Also, a 15-foot length of 1/4" ID clear plastic tubing works great 
for bleeding and flushing out the old brake fluid from each wheel 
brake cylinder.  Just remember to use Castrol GT-LMA DOT 3 & 4 brake 
fluid for seal compatability.

Later,

John R. Benham
Spokane, WA  USA
1968 IIA 88 `Bwana Mobile'

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: 	DEF 90 Triv
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 10:54:02 PST

> *Hey Jim, wow - this car's is awesome - I really love it. I just cruised up 
> through twin peaks at 70 mph. An guess what? I got 255 miles on a tank of good 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> to get to the station. He shook his head and said **I think you spent too much 
> on the car and not enough on gas!** Awesome!*
I got 248 mile on one ofmy first tankfuls. I was trying to get the
low fuel light to come on. After I rtfm, I realized how futile it was.

Russ Burns

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 11:17:05 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: SF bay area - interesting LR at Scottys

Sorry to blast the whole list with this.

But there is an interesting Land Rover currently sitting in Scotty's driveway 
that some people who are nearby might want to drop by o look at..and urge Scotty
to work on my 109 ;*)

I don't think it will be there longer than a week or two so if your are 
intersted in seeing it...

The car is a Dormobile, 

- has a four cylinder engine (All dormobiles I have seen to date are 6 cyl).

- has the bug eye outer headlamps that was used only a short time.

- has factory external bug screens over the side windows

- Has FACTORY air conditioning!  I didn't even know there was factory air 
conditioning for the series IIA Land Rover!

The first thing you notice is the rounded section of sheet metal coming out of a
cut away section of the rear of the bonnet.  It looks like no land Rover bonnet 
I've ever seen (modified from the delux bonnet).  If you pop the bonnet, there 
is this huge box sitting high on the bulkhead covering the rear third of the 
engine, and an air conditioning pump on the right.  The battery & aircleaner 
have been moved to fit this stuff.  The cowel vents are sealed (inside half of 
each covered by air conditioner.  The air conditioning vents are where the 
adjusters for the cowel vent adjuster goes.  There are a few minor trim 
differences above the instrument panel as well.

Scotty has a photocopy of the original invoice for that car that he showed me 
listing the air conditioner.

I did get some digital pictures of the air conditioning unit.  I'll try to get 
time to get them posted to the LR web server.  I also got a couple of shots of 
the neat shovel mount on Uncle Roger's 109  He has a shovel mount on the top of 
the left side wing.  I've been jealous about it since I first saw it.  When I 
get my LR back, one of the first things I do, other than make a dump run & drive
my dog around, is try to put a Roger style shovel mount on my 109 so I can be 
like Uncle Roger ;*)

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 14:58:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted. 

On Mon, 13 Feb 1995, Mike Fredette wrote:

> Dixon's at it again.

	Seems like it...  <grin>

> 	What is it with you that you feel this compulsion to bash the newer
> Land Rover vehicles and by default, their owners?! You seem to never miss an 
> opening to stick it to us. 

	Actually, if you go back over the past year of so, you will see that
	I have been rather amiss.  There are many opportunities that I have
	missed here.  In fact I have even glossed over articles in LRO
	magazine that could be highly amusing when talking with you.  I just
	rose to the occasion when someone posted, regarding Series electrical
	systems, "better yet, get a D90".  Might I postulate that you are
	far faster to jump in when a perceived slight occurs.  In fact I seem
	to observe that you generally jump more often when I have fired a 
	round  rather than someone else.  Oh well... <bang!>  :-)

	As per the owners, there is a certain catagory that I find a wee bit
	contemptious, though I can assure you that despite your perceptions
	is not limited to the D90 crowd.

> I fail to understand why you think that any Land Rover
> less than 25-30 years old is junk. 

	Their not.  If I ever get a 101, it certainly will not be 25-30
	years old.  I wouldn't mind an earlier two door Range Rover or
	a rolling coil sprung chassis to play with.

> We went round the mullberry bush on this once before, but is it because 
> you're jealous because of the cost, or what exactly?

	You don't seem to remmeber the last go round I guess.  If I wanted
	a D90, I could go out and buy one this afternoon.  However I haven't
	done that.  As before, I have serious concerns relating to longevity,
	etc.  I also have observations about the profile of LR ownership.
	Both have idiots amongst their membership, but vehicle type seems
	to have a preponderance of status seekers, people who could change
	the oil if their life depended on it, have no appreciation of 
	history... You know the type, the people that you have met that
	have vehicles that will never go off-road, can't tell a Disco or 
	Range Rover from any Series (D90 included) vehicle.  The chap that
	Sandy met in a parking lot comes to mind.  A similar breed are those
	that want to look cool, just like the owners of white Bronco's that
	have suddenly hit the top of the charts in sales...

	But we have been through this before & I am sure we will
	probably go round again in another six months.  I really don't 
	care, though I find the exchanges rather fun & enjoyable... <:-)
	
> be able to buy parts, but will you? Will Land Rover still support the 60 
> year old Series trucks? 

	Who cares.  Take a look at the vintage automobile scene around 
	the world, if not just in the USA.  I see a number of 60+ year old
	vehicles still puttering about.  If there is a buck to be made,
	someone will be making those parts.  Why else can you get Series One
	parts that were NLA, for many many years, again?  I'm not worried.

	Rgds,

	Dixon
	[lots of Series trash]

	PS.  Someday I may make it to the Northwest for one of these Rally's
	     Challenges etc.  It would be interesting, thanks for the invite.
	     Of course, you are invited to the east coast stuff, like the 
	     OVLR Birthday Party.  In fact, I would hope you would bring
	     your 90.  None of the 90 owners I've ever met would dream
	     of bringing them on a mud run.   You would be refreshing...

------------------------------

From: Spenny@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 15:17:11 -0500
Subject: Re: 109 HCPU /tires

steve writes...
snip...
Mark Letouney's 109 hi-cap was just that ..a hi-cap ...
don't think it was a 1 ton...1983 109 series 3 RHD
snip...

I didnt realise there was a difference, i thought 
all hi-caps were 1 ton

Spenny

Spencer K. C. Norcross                               Spenny@aol.com
Haverhill, Mass. USA
508-373-1788 (W)                                508-521-4093 (H)
508-521-1380 (FAX)
===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--===
1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine
Now with most of the Federally requred electrics!

Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway!
What will they think of next!

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted.
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 13:47:02 PST

First, I take exception an being called an idiot (as polite as your slam was),
I am only half crazy, the other half just isn't there. As for the techical
competence of D-90 owners, at least we have to remove the drain plugs
to refresh the fluids. The older models you just fill them up daily.
While I will admit that there is no justfication for spending 30K on
a truck, The D-90 is the most functional, and off road capable truck
available to day. I could not use a series truck to commute 100 miles
a day. A series truck would not pull my camper (low range ok, I just couldn't
get anywhere). If I had to drive 55 mph thru Nebraska, I would never make
it to the Rockys. 
I will admit if I had a choice between driving a D-90, and a series Rover
on an off road excursion, I would choose the series one. This is only
because I enjoy experiencing the challenge an older technolgy provides.
I still dig ditches by hand, use an axe, and a saw, instead of a 
chain saw. I think somethings need to be experienced. I am not envious
of the series trucks, I am envious of the lifestyle they represent.
If I could take 8 weeks to make a trip west, I would enjoy rebuilding
the transfer case along side of the road. I fear breaking down in Detroit.
I cannot see owning a series truck, only to traverse the same mud hole 
every weekend. A rover is made to get somewhere, In 10 years, we should
see whose Rover made it more places. If I could change my lifestyle
I could get there in a series Rover.  But until I can make that change,
the D-90 is a better truck.
As for driving thru a spot of mud next summer, I will make every attempt
to attend your event. If nothing else I should make a good winch anchor.

Russ Burns 
94 D-90
91 R-Rover

> On Mon, 13 Feb 1995, Mike Fredette wrote:
none
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 76 lines)]
> 	     your 90.  None of the 90 owners I've ever met would dream
> 	     of bringing them on a mud run.   You would be refreshing...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:58:08 +0200 (METDST)
From: S|ren Vels Christensen <velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: Re: Signs of the Times

On Sun, 12 Feb 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote:

> To S|ren Vels Christensen..... NICE SIGN! Love it... I'll see if I can print
> it on Monday at work..

It's nice that at least one on this list could decode with success. 
Others couldn't, so i'm working to find a solution.
Please be patient for a couple af days.
 
> Cheers
> Mike
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> P.S. Is it Soren or Siren or S|ren?? Your name comes across the third way on
> my mailer...
None of the above actually. IBM, DEC, AT&T and DARPA were not aware of the 
existence of Scandinavia. The o in Soren is an o with a / over it. Much like
the diameter symbol. The host that i pay a lot of money to access 
converts it to the pipe character. 
When i was in Longview, WA in '82 i tried to make people pronounce my name
right but they kept saying Soren. At the time there was a quarterback at
Seattle Seahawks called Zorn. I was an interesting person ;-)

later
sv/aurens

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 17:17:46 -0500
From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg)
Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner...

Dixon Kenner writes:

>On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 Sanna@aol.com wrote:
>> DON'T DO IT!  Hubs are a damned invention of the domestic crowd...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>        Matter of debate really...  I keep them locked driving about town,
>        but it helps if you can unlock them for the highway...

I'm with Dixon here.  I used to run unlocked most of the time, just going
into a maintainece lock every Wednesday.  For everyday use I leave them
locked,lubeing, and ready for instant action when I feel compelled to park
ON the snow pile left by the plow in the train station lot.  ("What do you
mean there are no spaces left?  What about that one over there?!?")  If I'm
headed on a long trip I usually remember to unlock them during my first gas
stop.  No real mileage difference, but she seems to handle a bit better
with the front end free.

I can't address them from a "serious" off-road perspective since I only
venture off road if there's a specific destination, like a trout stream, at
the other end of the trail.  However before I started my restoration most
people I spoke to said that they were desireable as long as you locked them
up for a short trip once a week or so to keep them lubricated.  For the
record, I have the Warn hubs.

>> Its got cruise!  You just jam your foot to the floor and leave it.  Or if you
>> want the ORIGINAL cruise control (long before Detroit), get one of the old LR
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>        I have yet to see a IIA sold in the NADA that didn't have one of
>        these...

I don't have a hand throttle, I guess I'll have to settle for the old brick
on the pedal method...

Regards.

JAB

==                                                                 ==
 Jeffrey A. Berg              Interactive Telecommunications Program
 Technical Administrator                         New York University
                          berg@acf2.nyu.edu
                          =================
               My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
          My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
                       Taste for the good life.
                      I can see it no other way.
                           --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)
==                                                                 ==

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 14:28:24 PST
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  Genesis redux

Reports opf the Disco kil;ling the Defender may be premature to say the
least -- I was reading while in the Garden of England that Defender sales
are up strongly.

Cheers

John Brabyn

------------------------------

Date: 13 Feb 95 17:31:34 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: EFI warning light on RR

>I have a 1988 Range Rover and the EFI light has come on.  My experience with
>other vehicles usually points to bad oxygen sensor, but I just don't know on
>this one.  Also do the power seats have anytype of manual override.  My
>passenger seat will go up, but not back.  Any help would be appreciated.

What the EFI warning light usually means is "Keep your hands off and see
a specialized workshop ASAP". Unless you have the appropriate EFI supplement
of the original Workshop Manual (not the Haynes fairy book) and a host of
electronic measuring tools plus the knowledge to use them, there's not much
you can do with the EFI except screw it up good.
As for the seat - sorry, no way out here, either. You'll have to have it
fixed or throw it out for a 'normal' manually adjustable seat.
Sorry if this was disconcerting...
(Malfunctioning passenger power seat plus EFi faults - could be related,
maybe a humidity problem. Did you do any deep water wading latey, or
perhaps had some flooding in your area?)

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: 13 Feb 95 17:31:49 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Zenith vs. Weber - take 349

Richard Strysniewicz quizzed

>On a related note, anyone care to comment on the relative merits of Zenith
>vs. Weber cabs for the 2.25?  I have a Turner performance head but otherwise
>stock engine.  I'm not lacking for power right now but would like an increase
>in fuel economy (wouldn't everyone?)  Would a Zenith be any more economical
>than the Weber?

Usually the opposite is true, the improved economy being the main - perhaps
only - advantage of the Weber over the Zenith/Solex lumps. On the other
hand a new or reconditioned Zenith can well be a lot more economical than an
old buggered-up Weber. The Weber gets its economy at the expense of high-end
power (not so noticeable if you have an overdrive). In Europe, the Weber is
the LR carb of choice because of the forbidding price of petrol. In the
States, it would be pointless to throw out a Zenith or Solex for a Weber
(I'm talking of the single-barrel version here, remember). What really boosts
economy more than any carb conversion could is a 'Lumenition' ignition
control ... but that's another story.
Cheers,

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: 13 Feb 95 17:31:42 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: fuel + cost + rebuild

Harald the Viking has a thirsty friend...

> The V8 of my RR'79 is a very thirsty friend to have, so...
... snip
> standard -> electronic injection, or

I know the performance and economy of the EFI makes the mouths of owners
of older carbed V8s water... but, a conversion from carburetted to electronic
fuel injection just doesn't figure economically, whichever way you look at it.
Here's just a list of the items that *must* be replaced totally when doing
such a conversion:
Cylinder heads, exaust manifolds, all exaust pipes, fuel tank, fuel pump,
all fuel supply linings, air filter. Additionally you will have to buy the
ECU, air flow sensor, injectors, injector control wire harness, ram air
housing, special fuel filter,plus a host of minor electronic devices, sensors,
relays.  We're talking here about costs in the area of $ 4K.  For the same
price you can get a complete reconditioned EFi engine.  To recuperate these
costs in terms of improved milage, you'd have to circle the equator 5 times
before it starts to pay off.
Converting from old V8 to TDi can make sense economically, at least in
Europe, provided you intend to drive your beast for at least another 10
years, because the adapter kit plus a TDi engine (new) will set you back
by a good $ 10K. Used TDi's are hard to find, except if someone totals his
Discovery right in front of you and you quickly go and make a deal with him
while he's on the stretcher and still conscious (just being morbid...)

BTW, will you be at the meet in Lillehammer in August?

Have fun,

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: 13 Feb 95 17:31:55 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re:  88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted.

C. Taylor Sutherland, III speaketh:

>anybody who has stuck a 6-cyl in theirs, speak up and let me know if it worked

A S.III 109 6-cyl. *chassis* is a good choice because it has much stronger
brakes than the regular 4-cyl, and a larger (deeper & longer) engine bay
which predestines it for any kind of engine conversion you may dream up,
including V8. *But*, the straight-six banger engine - forget it. It is a
pristine historical piece of machinery which might well be the pride of any
motor museum, especially if it is still running, but is has become totally
obsolete with the advent of the first V8. The 6-cyl hasn't got nearly the
power of a V8 - even an old one - and is at the same time *much* more
thirsty, an A-class guzzler. To keep it running properly and within the
limits of emission regulations is a full-time job even for an experienced
mechanic. Spares are difficult to find and ex$pensive. I know what I'm
talking about, I owned one (kept the car but chucked the 6-cyl), and even
helped a poor sucker who insisted inspite of my warnings to rebuild one.
He runs it at around 23-26 liters/100 km (I told him so...) Don't even go
near one. If you have one, donate it to the Smithsonian Institute, care of
the Dinosaurs dept.

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 17:36:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted.

On Mon, 13 Feb 1995, Russell Burns wrote:

> First, I take exception an being called an idiot 

	Never called you an idiot, I'm just responding to Mike's little
	love note addressed to me.  Nor am I brushing all D90 owners,
	just a bunch of them & I described the type I meant.  Whether
	you see yourself in that profile is entirely another matter.
	I don't know if you fit it at all, though you seem to think
	so, though the rest of your message doesn't indicate it.

> I am only half crazy, the other half just isn't there. As for the techical
> competence of D-90 owners, at least we have to remove the drain plugs
> to refresh the fluids. The older models you just fill them up daily.

	Not quite daily actually, just depends what you have been up to.
	That you are hal f crazy is actually a plus as far as I am concerned.
	Never really liked these concours types that would buy a brand new
	vehicle and drive it to a car show to put in a concours against
	older vehicles in a general class.  Somehow seems a bit unfair,
	though enlightening in other ways.

> While I will admit that there is no justfication for spending 30K on
> a truck, 

	There can be plenty of justification.  All depends on what it is
	going to be used for.  Getting the kids at school, groceries,
	the country club, and the regular car wash isn't worth $30k.  Doing
	some work is.  You bring up a lot of good reasons to why you
	have a 90.  A lot of other 90 owners wouldn't have a clue how to 
	answer the question, just huff & puff a lot.

> As for driving thru a spot of mud next summer, I will make every attempt
> to attend your event. If nothing else I should make a good winch anchor.

	You are welcome to come if you wish.  I would actually be very 
	interested to see a D90 offroad.  In some respects they seem to
	be rather impressive.  I do like the idea of disc brakes. 
	You will find we are not a bunch of philistines, but do have our 
	fair share of "unique" people.

	Rgds,

	PS.  As per Detroit, I wouldn't want to break down their either...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 17:49:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" <swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: Rovers in Movies

Hi, all,
I just saw 4weddings and a funeral this weekend, and I was wondering if 
the landrover (looked like a III88)shown throughout the movie was a bugeye?
If this has already been covered in the various RoverMovie mailings, I 
apologize for the wasted bandwidth.

thnx
happyrovering
stv
swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 15:41:41 PST
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  New Range Rover... preview, and more.

Sounds like a good bash!

I've seen a few of the new RRs in England on my recent trip, and read a couple
of reviews focussing on off-road performance, which seems to be universally
acclaimed as stupendous and effortless. In the latest issue of Automobile
magazine they compare a number of 95 sport utilities, and are quite fanatic
in their praise of the RR's off-road capabilities compared to anything else
out there.

Of course, the rest of us should retain a degree of healthy scepticism,
secure in the knowledge that our older models are better....

If only the thing didn't look like a homogenized Ford Explorer!

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

From: "Mugele, Gerry" <Gerry.Mugele@wellsfargo.com>
Subject: Living in B.C.
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 16:17:00 PST

Hi Kyle,

Beautiful country you inhabit.  I've spent some time with my 88 wandering 
the logging road up there myself.  Well not at Armstong but down around 
Keremeos and Princeton area, followed the Ashnola River up to the Glacier 
Lakes.  Absolutely glorious.  (My wife was raised in Keremeos.)  And there 
certainly are bunches of elderly L-R.  Many Series Is long abandoned 
awaiting the chance to become a parts car.  My Brother-in-law made a point 
of locating about a dozen IAAs, some could be started but none being used 
regularly.

And how can I get you to send me a few dozen (or a gross) bottles of 
Okanogan Spring Ale.   As far as I know the only place it's available is in 
the Okanogan region and around Kamloops (or is Kamloops still considered to 
be Okanogan?).    Love that stuff.  8^)

Gerry 72 88

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: ruckus
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 19:29:17 EST

Oh my, are we fighting again???

Any of you boys married??

rd/nigel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 16:30:15 PST
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  EFI warning light on RR

The EFI warning light could signal a lot of things -- if you have the patience and the
and the workshop manual, you can check the ECU out yourself with a multimeter.
I've done it, but it's tedious. Once mine came on after runnuing really low
on gas. Another time it came on after I suffocated the engine by putting
my hand over the air intake causing it to die. In both cases the fault cleared
itself when the ECU was disconnected and reconnected. 

If you suspect the oxygen sensor, there's a specific multimeter test for
that in the workshop manual.

It's also quite possible there's absolutely nothing wrong, but you should
get it checked out by the dealer or do it yourself as above.

Re the power seats, the problem is almost certainly the control switch,
which is easy to replace but costs about $99. They get dirt etc in them
and often act up. You can try taking the switch apart and squirting in
contact cleaner -- I've done this on one of mine with satisfactory
results.

I hear the seat controls are ripped off from Mercedes, so you could try
for replacements there too but I doubt if they'd be any cheaper!

Hope this is helpful -- 

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 00:48:58 GMT
From: Bill Caloccia <caloccia>
Subject: Re: Signs of the Times

Actually I had no problems decoding it, but there are a lot of newbies (to 
computers) on the list who had no clue it was a uuencoded jpeg file...

I managed to save & re-assemble it and decode and view it w/o leaving my 
Macintosh...

I'll be glad to put a copy up on the mail server, and the best thing would
also be to put it up on the WWW and ftp servers. 

I don't think it is a good idea to re-send it through the mail, as it is
much too big...

---

Since I'm writing I'll throw in my 2 cents..

  I think the concept is neat, but

	the colors and shape are too close to the camel logos...

	if someone were going to do a print-run, I wouldn't want anything
	printed with 'team.net'  and a land-rover logo on it...

	I'll get a copy of the auto crosser's team.net logo just for fun and
	encode it.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: the Seri(ou)s Wars
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 19:57:12 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

All right, dixon and russel, I know you've probably both been feeling trapped  
in the house after a couple weeks of -10 to -20C frozen weather, and the
muck in Dixon's transfer case won't even start to drip again until he fires
up the kerosene heater in the barn or snow melts first,

but face it, you both are just another f**** LR owner (or maybe LR anorak !),

so grab a nice room temperature Newkie (a bitter, not the dog) and and go

chill out in a nearby snowbank EH ?

    Cheers,
	--bill	caloccia@Team.Net	caloccia@Stratus.Com

      1  3     dl OD  L           "Land Rover's first, becuase
      |--|--+  o  |   |            Land Rovers last."
      2  4  R     N   H           '72 Range Rover

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 18:01:05 PST
From: grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.))
Subject: Series IIa or III?

The Question;

> So which one would you prefer?  The IIa or the III?  I kinda like what the III
> has to offer, but I'd be willing to listen to any arguments.

You can't cook your trout on a Series III grill!

Gord.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 03:24:49 +0200 (METDST)
From: S|ren Vels Christensen <velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: Re: re-deSigns of the Times

On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Bill Caloccia wrote:

> Actually I had no problems decoding it, but there are a lot of newbies (to 
> computers) on the list who had no clue it was a uuencoded jpeg file...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)]
> 	I'll get a copy of the auto crosser's team.net logo just for fun and
> 	encode it.

You're right. Copyrigths and all that.

As for camel. The shape is closer to Monte Carlo Rally than to Camel. I
think it lands somewhere in the middle. Mille Miglia is closer to Camel than 
anything except for the red colour. 

You are of course right about the logo. It can easily be replaced. 
I'll work on it. And i won't post it directly! I have caused enough 
trouble already.

rgds,
Soren
velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:28:51 -0500
From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS)
Subject: Re: 107 wagon turn signals

On December 30, Randy Rose said:

>Thanks to those who told me about 107 station wagon stuff.  As my 107 came
>without rear lamps and no wiring harness, I wanted to what the original set
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>manual.  If anyone had a drawing of the optional series I turn signal
>set up, suitable for 1957, let me know.  I'd sure like a copy.
Sorry to be so long about answering this, but if you still need the
drawings, Randy, I can send you copies of the pages from the Series I parts
book, owner's instruction manual (choice of English, French, German,
Spanish, or Portuguese for those who have never seen a Series I owner's
book), and the workshop manual that deal with flashing indicators.  Some of
those pages also talk about the trafficators.

So Randy, if you still need the drawings, send me your snail mail address.
If more people express interest, I might be able to scan them into gifs or
jpegs and put them on a machine where they can be retrieved by ftp.

The reason I'm so long in responding is that I spent 4 weeks in the Miami
Beach, Miami area because my mother was hospitalized.  I saw lots of Range
Rovers (all sparkling clean), but also had a D90 turn a corner around me as
I was waiting to cross a street.  Aren't there rules against Land Rovers
being so quiet?  I also saw a D110 several times.  The last time I saw it,
it was being parked in front of the hospital as I was leaving. It belongs
to a doctor - first name Raoul - who didn't have much time to talk as he
was rushing inside because his sister was going into labor. He was
surprised when I told him about my 107 because he thought he knew of every
LR in southern Florida.  He seemed to have quite an array of anti-theft
devices on the vehicle. (In my Series I owner's instruction manual, under
locking the vehicle, it says "To protect the vehicle against theft, the
ignition key should always be removed when parking. As an additional
precaution, the distributor rotor may be removed or the petrol tap on the
sediment bowl turned "off". When private locks and window catches are
fitted, these should be secured when the vehicle is left unattended."  I
did pocket the rotor and screw in the fuel shutoff tap when I had to park
it on the street in Mexico and Guatemala.

Steve Margolis
1957 107 Station Wagon, Series I, Still in kit form in Maine (Damn!)
        serial number 13470093 engine number 114707468

------------------------------

From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III)
Subject: Genuine Clunk-o-matic Drive
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 01:38:47 

Am I going to get ka-chunka-chunka-chunka every time I shift in a fairly well 
put together series IIa 88"?

I hope the tranny is better than that.

Anybody know what I'm talking about?  And no, I DO know how to drive a stick 
AND double clutch.  :-)

Taylor...you know, the guy desperately trying to join I-bought-a-land-rover-
see-me-love-me group...

-- 
       One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
       One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
       In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. 

<-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu      <->
<->  <-> IRC Nick:  NIV       <-> taylors@gamma.phys.clemson.edu  <->

------------------------------

From: Sekerere@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 01:49:57 -0500
Subject: Importing Land Rover from SA

Haven't heard any response from you or the person that you directed me to
call in South Africa regarding obtaining and importing (exporting from SA) a
pre 1968 Land Rover. I am not sure if my messages are getting through. Would
appreciate any help you can give me as we need to do some sorting out before
we go to SA in early June, and need to get paperwork done on this end if it
is necessary. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Chris Whitehead

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 02:15:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner...

On 13 feb. Dixon wrote...
> On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 Sanna@aol.com wrote:
> > Its got cruise!  You just jam your foot to the floor and leave it.  Or
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>         I have yet to see a IIA sold in the NADA that didn't have one of 
>         these...

Oh, Darn! My '71 IIa doesn't have a hand throttle.... The other '71 IIa (now
a pile of parts) didn't have one either... Shucks!

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: US Camel Trials report 
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 00:41:32 -0700 (MST)

You read it here first (I think), and USA Today will give coverage on or 
about 15 Feb.

Rocky Rover Roy and I witnessed the US Camel Trophy Trials in Colorado.  
Roy's fun meter broke and he doesn't care; he's ready to die now.  
Myself, I caught a few winks in my flooded tent while the contestants 
were slugging it out all through a night of mud and snow, so I'm still 
willing to live for another experience.  We both plan to write articles 
as time and inspiration permit, and possibly give you all a preview.

In the meantime, I don't think it will spoil anything to give y'all a 
quick glimpse of the results.  Of 1873 applicants, 12 were chosen to 
compete in the trials.  Four were women, a first for the US.  Four of the 
twelve were selected to go to the international trials in Turkey:  Thomas 
Davenport, 22, of Burlington VT; Jonah Houston, 28, of Monterey CA; James 
Swett, 29, of Lebanon CT; AND -- more history in the making -- Daphne 
Greene, 33, of Ross CA.  The four will be reduced to two at the 
international trials (after more weekend training in the interim), with 
the remaining two serving as alternates (in case somebody breaks a leg or 
somesuch).  For the first time also, two official team journalists were 
selected after also participating in most of the tasks:  Sue Meade and 
Erik Schlegel.  (Roy did not compete; he will probably explain.)

While Roy was mucking around (in every sense of the word) trying to 
unearth (in more ways ways than one) the mystique of the Camel Trophy, I 
was taking photos of Daphne.  (And y'all thought Roy was the Rover babe 
chaser!)  I had a hunch about her from the start (even though Roy and 
others disagreed), and it's a good thing, because I couldn't afford to do 
a photo essay on all 12 contestants!  She gives a whole new meaning to 
wenching -- oops, winching.

I would say the US is positioned to field a very creditable team for the 
Mundo Maya in May.  Twenty countries will be participating, including 
Germany, Italy, South Africa and UK.  Which begs the question:  why isn't 
OVLR fielding a team?!  And our friends from Oz?  And Soren Aurens, the 
one-man Danish team?  You guys would have the edge -- most Camel 
contestants don't have prior knowledge of Land Rovers.

more later... (time permitting)

T. F. Mills                                              tomills@du.edu
University of Denver Library  2150 E. Evans Ave.  Denver  CO 80208  USA
      http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction)

------------------------------

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