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From: UncleBrad@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 03:01:54 -0500
Subject: Engine swaps?

I'm afraid that I'm one of those who has gone the way of the Chevy. And It is
everything that Land Rover should have been in the first place. Isn't that
why they put the 6 cylinder engine in the Land Rovers1967? They just chose
the wrong engine.

Seems to me that the $450 or so that I spent for the adapter kit, added to
the cost of an older, rebuilt Chevrolet engine (which is better than the
newer ones for several reasons, one being the lack of smog paraphernalia) is
still much less than the cost of a Land Rover engine. 

Then consider the availability of reasonably priced parts even in the middle
of mexico. Call me practical but...

About the torque damaging the drive train- I have no doubt that I could do
damage to the  Land Rover gearbox with all that horsepower but I still drive
my 109 like it's a Land Rover, not a hot rod. The only difference in my
driving is that I can keep it around 55-60 even on the grades. Well, maybe I
have stopped using 1st gear so much too...

That leads to the problem of gearing- The overdrive is a good, easy way to
get high gearing without sacrificing low gearing. Yes, it adds to the cost of
the project but you don't have to do it right away. Another way to go, as
mentioned earlier in this discussion (not by me) is taller diffs. I have been
both routes and prefer this one. The overdrive requires consistent oil level
monitoring for some reason and I don't like having to remember things like
that all the time. 

New gearing leads to the question of getting stuck due to lack of low rpm
ability- I don't want seem like I'm bragging but I must tell you that my 109
can pull at 500 rpms even with 3:54 diffs. That is good enough for me and
what I do. And the power has enabled me to cruise through deep sand where my
fellow travellers in stock Land Rovers could not. Not with a running start
either. 

For those of you who have the Chevy already, or have been convinced that this
is something that you might be interested in I would like to pass on the
address of a company which specializes in performance parts for 4 & 6
cylinder inline engines. Consider them for improving your economy rather than
performance. They even have headers for the Land Rover engine.
Send $5 for their catalogue:
Clifford Performance
PO Box 2620
Corona, CA 91720
Phone 909-734-3310

I hope I don't get too much hate mail for this.

Brad Blevins

------------------------------

Date: 06 Feb 95 04:07:14 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Jeeps in the snow...

...just a short quote from The Guardian (UK), reporter Martin Wainwright
telling about his experience when trapped on the M62 over a week ago when
the Midlands and Pennines where hit by a blizzard during evening rush hour.
"Midnight on the M62 saw Leeds and Manchester evening rush hour frozen into
the landscape seven hours after we were all due home. ...  The police
Range Rovers whispered and crumped on the snow past the stranded pretend 
Jeeps, whose drivers hadn't yet the same mastery of four-wheel drive..."

Doesn't that go down like warm chocolate?

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Wheels and steering
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 09:52:23 +0000 (GMT)
From: Richard Jones <rich@apricot.co.uk>

WILLIAM  L. LEACOCK writes:
> Solihull  ( Mecca) is E.S.E of Birmingham, often included in the Birmingham
> suburbs, just inside the M42 motorway on the A45 Coventry rd, also close to east
> midlands airport if that figures on your map.
none
[...]
>   Regards    Bill Leacock     Limey in exile.
> suburbs, just inside the M42 motorway on the A45 Coventry rd, also close to east

Looks like you have been away a little too long - Land Rover is close
to Birmingham International Airport - East Midlands Airport is near
Nottingham :-) 

-- 
 _ __            Apricot Computer Limited    Tel:   (+44) 21 717 7171
' )  )      /    3500 Parkside               Fax:   (+44) 21 717 0123
 /--' o _. /_    Birmingham Business Park
/  \_<_(__/ <_   BIRMINGHAM  B37 7YS         Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk
Richard Jones    United Kingdom                     ..!uknet!apricot!richardj

------------------------------

From: Harald.Stegavik@si.sintef.no
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 95 12:13:15 MET
Subject: fuel + cost + rebuild

Hello!

The V8 of my RR'79 is a very thirsty friend to have, so...

The *jewel* is a standard RR configuration with twin Stromberg carbs and no 
injection or turbo. I have started to collect some info on possibilities for 
rebuilding. Do anybody in the LR-net have advice on what i might expect from a 

standard -> electronic injection, or
petrol -> diesel or ......(suggestions) port?

Harald

-----------------------------------
Harald Stegavik, Research Scientist
SINTEF
Pb 124, Blindern
N-0314 Oslo
Norway

tel:  +47 2206 7927
fax:  +47 2206 7909
Inet: Harald.Stegavik@si.sintef.no

------------------------------

From: Tom Stevenson <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Leaf springs
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:33:24 +0000 (GMT)

I never had much success with painting leaf springs; they always went
rusty. In the end I just daubed on a mixture of diesel and engine oil
with the relavent wheel jacked up to relax the spring. This seemed to
keep the rust off and the spring supple (if 'supple' can be applied to a
LR leaf spring)

By the way, who is Rube Goldberg? Is he of the same ilk as
Heath-Robinson?

Cheers!
-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(0475) 530581  Fax:(0475) 530601

------------------------------

From: Tom Stevenson <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Defender 90
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:18:24 +0000 (GMT)

Hear, Hear!
However, you forget to mention one of the most important attributes of
the 90s and 110s; the coil springs. These alone have saved me a fortune
in dental bills for loose fillings since I changed from Series Rovers to
a 90.
-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(0475) 530581  Fax:(0475) 530601

------------------------------

From: SE THOMAS <THOMSE-U@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk>
Date:         6 Feb 95 13:37:39 GMT
Subject:      Introductions

Hi, being new to the list I thought I should send in a brief
introduction. I have a 1964 swb 2.25 diesel, and bearing in mind what
Sandy Grice and Mike Rooth said, no-one follows me on the motorway
because it's dangerous to drive in a pall of thick black smoke. As a
consequence the block is out at the moment for a rebore, and then
it'll be a case of trying to fit it all back together again. If
anyone has any hints for re-timing a CAV mechanical distributor
without the flange nearest the marker, I'd appreciate them (yes, I
know I could have marked it elsewhere, but someone else removed it
while my back was turned).
Yours up to my elbows in bits that shouldn't be broken,
Stephen Thomas

------------------------------

Date: 06 Feb 95 08:59:47 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Tires....again

Russel enquires...

> what is the "largest" tire you can use on a 15" or 16" rim without causing
> ...
> I have 16" rims and was looking at 235/85/16 size tires.  Just how tall

On the 16" rims you can go as far as 9.00, though I would strongly advise
to swap for 1-ton rims in that case, or your turn-around radius will be
comparable with an old Greyhound bus. With 235/85 tires, the problem is
not so much size but *tubes*. On the regular rims of an 88, you *cannot*
fit tubeless tires. And you cannot fit tubeless with an extra tube inside
either; we've tried, doesn't work - apparently the tube begins 'wandering'
and warping inside, and eventually, i.e. like real soon, rips. And I *think* -
might be wrong, though - that none of the 235/85 brands come with tubes.
What you could do is take the _old_ style steel rims of the pre-1980 Range
Rovers, they're suitable for tubeless, and they fit the 88 (looks a bit
weird though). Make sure, however, that you get the 7"-wide variety.
With 245'ers, again you will have the problem of needing an entire empty
parking lot to turn your wagon around.

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: 06 Feb 95 08:59:00 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Misc. Questions

Erik van Dyck (EvanD103@aol.com) is puzzled:

> I've come across 3 different part numbers for the assembly:  The Land Rover
>parts book calls for RTC2554, Paddock in England lists ETC7054, and in the US
>Rovers North and British Pacific list part # ERR1117.  Are these all the same
>part for my 2.25 litre engine?  Any help would be appreciated.

Erik, all those numbers designate the same identical part. ERR1117 is the
current, valid parts number that has superseded both others. RTC2554 has been
superseded way-back - when was your parts book printed?

Enjoy,

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Tires....again
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 14:15:18 GMT

Just to confuse the issue...I've got 205 16 radials *with*
tubes(the same ones I had when it wore 6.00 16 cross ply
boots) on my 88".No problems yet...touch wood.

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl
Subject: Newby and already some "steering" Qs
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 15:18:56 MET

I just recently joined this list after been bitten by some kind of a 
virus: saw an article on LRs in "practical classics" and came to the
conclusion that next to all of those other cars needed a LR or two. 
Bruce H. told me about this list, thanks Bruce, and I gladly joined.
Enjoyed reading for the past two weeks orso.

Well, splashed out a week ago and bought two for the price of one. 
A '63 109" IIa Diesel, fitted with a Peugeot "Indenor" Diesel, and a 
'60 88" II on gas, half of it in boxes. I used the notes in the FAQ 
when checking these cars, and they both are in reasonable shape, the LWB
can be used regularly, but is untastily modified. I will have to work on it
a little to make it pass the yearly official test. The guy I bough them
from had collected a pile of new/used spare parts with came with the deal.
Also a set of maintenance mauals (though intended for army LRs).

I hope to be able to ask some questions to this list regarding the 
"resurrection" of these Land Rovers. I don't have any experience yet 
with LRs in particular, but that will come!

A problem with the LWB is that the steering was rather vague. On the check 
I had already noticed two worn tie-rods on the steering(?) arm: the arm that
goes from the relay to the (right) wheel. When checking this arm I noted that
it is out of spec. The tie-rod are set on minimum length and the 
center-distance is 31.5" (80 cm). According to the series III specs it 
should be between 78.3..78.6 cm (30+7/8"). I noted that the steering wheel 
has an awkward position when driving, but that the relay-lever is pointing 
forward when the steering wheel is straight ahead. Could it be that I have 
the wrong steering arm? Can somebody measure up a correct LWB IIa steering 
before I scrounge through the pile of SWB II parts and find one thats even 
worse.

Also, while busy giving long due maintenance, I tried to oil the steering 
relay in situ. According to the manuals, you'll have to remove two of the
oil seal retainer bolts, use one as a filler and the other for air escape. 
Is this the proper way? I had a tough time removing two said bolts, the 
upper relay arm is definetily in the way. In the end, I wasn't able to get 
any oil in, it just kept pouring out of the opposite bolt hole. 

Thanks very much, 

Richard P. Kleihorst. 

------------------------------

From: C Taylor Sutherland III <taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Subject: New Disco?
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:22:24 -0500 (EST)

Well, I finally saw a Disco that WASN'T at the dealer's.  Amazing.
Anyway, while driving through Greenville, SC I happened (on purpose)
to drive past the local dealer (so I could drool at the Defender 90,
and finally see the new hard top, makes it look like the old intented
grill 90's) and I saw a Disco up under the over hang.  At first, I
thought it was a Mitsubishi as they sometimes have other trucks there
for sale but when I got up closer, I noticed that it in fact was a
Discovery.  But it looked shorter than it had in months previous.  Is
it just my imagination or have they in fact made the Disco shorter?

taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 10:29:47 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Bleedin' cylinders

Mark Talbot (mtalbot@interServe.com) wrote about bleeding the clutch
cylinder.  I've made a nifty pressure bleeder for less than $2.  Took a 1
qt. garden sprayer with a broken nozzle (*never* throw *anything* away!)
and used some gas line hose to plumb it to a spare plastic reservoir cap.
Siliconed a brass hose barb (the $2 bit) into the cap.  Now a single person
can bleed brakes or clutches.  The clutch master cylinder has a rough
casting mark from where the two halves of the mold met, and that may have
to be judiciously filed down...just beware of the swarf.  As long as you're
at it, you may want to replace the clutch flex line...something that often
gets overlooked.

I notice that Rich Ziegler (RLZiegler@aol.com) has joined us.  Welcome
aboard Rich!  For those that do not know him, Rich is the single most
knowledgeable person about Land Rovers that I have ever met.  Rich was
probably the reason Bill Hubert started Atlantic British way back when.

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 17:09:40 +0200 (METDST)
From: S|ren Vels Christensen <velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch

On Sun, 5 Feb 1995, Mark Talbot wrote:

> Anyway, I'm trying to bleed the clutch, with little or no success. Anyone 
> tried the one-man-bleed-kit on the clutch system ??? 
> Mark 
none

I am the proud owner of the most efficient one-man-bleed-kit on this planet.
It's made of two parts: one left arm and one right ditto.
Just remove the floor (on the drivers side!), work the clutch with one arm
and the wrench with the other.

For brake bleeding though, i foresee the need of the double-one-man-bleeding-
kit ;-)

Good luck.

sv/aurens
velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 14:30:20 +0000
From: Steve Firth <steve@firthcom.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Tires....again

Russell U Wilson wrote:

>>Sorry to flog a dead, or nearly dead horse.  The question remains though,
what is the "largest" tire you can use on a 15" or 16" rim without causing
problems? <<

The largest standard tyre used on the 16" rim are 7.50x16s as fitted to the
109/110. You can get these as radials from General and BFG in a variety of
tread patterns.

You need a new speedometer head when these tyres are fitted to an 88/90.

--
Steve Firth: '81 109" Safari, 2.25 petrol.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Clutch bleeding 
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 09:31:41 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Mike Loiodice wrote:

> Mark's bleedin' clutch.....
> They *are* a pain in the arse, aren't they? Never tried the one-man bleed
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> probably find one a K-Mart or Walmart - about $20) Also heard of people
> priming the master cylinder... Never tried it, but it's supposed to help.

	I've never found bleeding the clutch to be all that annoying.  I
simply pull the driver's side floorboard.  I position a tuna fish can (which
I always carry to hold change and such in) to catch the fluid.  Then I use my
left hand to depress the clutch and my right one to loosen and tighten the
bleed screw.  Simple and can be done by yourself in the field.  I nice
design feature IMO. 

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications International Corporation
 China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 12:58:55 -0500
From: Jimmy Patrick <jimmyp@cksp.demon.co.uk>
Subject: jacob's ignition...

Greg said:

>Has anybody had any experience dealing with or using ignition products from
>Jacobs Electronics?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>(from my understanding ) your points and the coil. It fires the coil and
>just uses the points as the trigger.

Over here Boyner Bradsen (or somebody, I have the order form) sell one of
these thingys for about 19 pounds. It is actually cheaper to order from the
states, you don't pay the VAT at 17.5% and shipping is quite cheap. The
unit is about the size of a pack of camel trophy cigarettes. You switch
about three wires and bingo. If you dont like it, you switch those three
wires back. I don't have one of these yet but Trevor Talbot has one and he
thinks it is great. Your points will last much longer with this unit
attached. It also has a handy led timing light on the unit that you can use
for static timing. I will order one of these when I return to the states.
There are a lot of people in the Series one club who use these things with
good results.

Jimmy Patrick

--

CKS|Partners                                            0344-382114
Advertising & Marketing Communications            fax   0344-303192
                                                  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:02:19 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: Trailer Bargains

> From lro-owner@uk.stratus.com Sat Feb  4 12:06 PST 1995
> To: lro@team.net
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> Does anyone know if the Trailer Bargains mentioned by Pierce Reid on 2/2/95
> are available in the vicinity of the SF Bay Area?

   There's a surplus dealer in Fresno that sells them for $650. There's
a guy in Oakland that had some, don't know the price.

R, bg 

------------------------------

From: "John R. Benham" <BENHAM@WFOCLAN.USBM.GOV>
Date:          Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:40:21 +1100
Subject:       Petro tank bladder

Dear LRO's,

    Does anyone know if there are rubber (hypalone?) liners available 
for fuel tanks of the older Land Rovers?

    Older Land Rovers were not designed with safety engineering or 
standards in mind, especially for a side impact.  The fuel tank would 
probably rupture during a severe right hand side impact.  Hopefully, a 
high density flexible liner might prevent rupturing.

    Any thoughts or suggestions on this?
    
Later,

John R. Benham
Spokane, WA USA
1968 IIA 88 `Bwana Mobile'

------------------------------

From: MIKE_CATLIN@ccgate.fire.ca.gov
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:18:53 -0800

          unsubscribe lro-digest mike_catlin@fire.ca.gov

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 11:24:02 -0800
From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess)
Subject: rover maintanence

Hello all,

I can now report that changing the oil on the tiger is easier than on the
rover.  Although both systems are similar, I needed my wife (from above) to
start the bolt that holds the oil filter holder while I down below, held
the cannister up in the holder.  The Tiger has a more obtuse arrangement,
with the oil in pipe (from the adapter on the block) threading into a VERY
large bolt/cap that covers the top of the oil filter.  However, I can
perform the holding and tightening myself;  the rover takes two people!  (
I have the six cyl. and a heat shield.  Perhaps on the fours, one person
can manage.)

While changing the oil, I was able to locate the source of an oil leak (I
think).  I believe oil is leaking from the adapter/block interface;  I
know, I should have taken everything apart while the oil was out and the
filter was out but I didn't.  I wanted to check my books to see what I was
getting into.  Turns out that didn't help.  I have checked my repair
manuals and RN catalog but cant find mention of a gasket that goes on the
block between the block and the adapter plate that holds the oil filter
holder.  (I found the gasket that goes between the oil filter cannister
holder and the adapter bun not the other one, between the adapter and the
block.)  I'm trying my best to be clear.
So, is there a gasket there?  There must be, right?  Part number please?  I
can see I'm going to have to buy a parts books.  Does the parts book have
lots of exploded diagrams?

Secondly,  would any rover owners who have converted to eletronic ignition
email me with the system you bought, price and comments?

Thanks,

John Hess, PhD                    Phone me 916 752 8420
Dept of Human Anatomy             FAX me (ask first)
University of Calif               Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu
Davis, CA                         or ?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 23:27:34 GMT
From: Richard Strysniewicz <Richard@ducati.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Holy Smoke - a Weber!

>I vaguely recall that someone - I think a LR newbie? - complained about a
>4-cyl. petrol smoking w/power loss, fitted with a Weber carb... yeah, sounds
Thanks Stefan, that was my post you were thinking about.  I have recently 
fitted an in-line filter because I had noticed an accumulation of crud in the
float bowl.  Hopefully I will not see this problem again for a while.

On a related note, anyone care to comment on the relative merits of Zenith
vs. Weber cabs for the 2.25?  I have a Turner performance head but otherwise
stock engine.  I'm not lacking for power right now but would like an increase
in fuel economy (wouldn't everyone?)  Would a Zenith be any more economical 
than the Weber?

I currently get about 16mpg (imperial gallons) give or take a few here in 
windy, hilly southern England.  Most of the miles are at 55-60mph, no 
overdrive, 7.50 tyres.  Does that sound normal or should I be able to do
better?

Richard Strysniewicz                               DoD 1193  AMA 661768
Petersfield, UK                                    1991 907ie Bellarossa

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Feb 95 12:58:40 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: New Range Rover... preview, and more.

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: New Range Rover... preview, and more.

Last Thursday I attended a big "whoop-te-doo" at the LR dealership in
Phoenix to introduce the new Range Rover model. Quite a showing of
people, lots of "famous" celebrities including several members of the
Phoenix Sun's basketball team (A C Greene and I can't remember the
other) and Jim West of the USA 1992 Camel Trophy team. I had a great
time talking with Jim, who happens to live "near" me (well, around 30
miles away) and said he'd love to go 4-wheeling with me. He owns a...
(Oh, dare I say...) a "Jeep", but he raved about the capabilities of the
Land Rover, and "can't wait for the day he can own one." His preference
is 1, a D90, 2, a Discovery, 3, a D110. (It appears he weighs heavily on
the wheelbase) and had many great stories about the tdi, (turbo-diesel)
and the camel trophy, and... oh, but I'm rambling now... Sorry...

The new Range Rover is FABULOUS! And a "bargain" at (only) $54,000 US.
Talking with the sales-droid, everything is new, re-engineered. New
engine, new trans with "H-gate" shifter (allows you to override
automatic gear selection in 4WD-low to where you can select any gear and
it'll remain there. Yes, you can START in 3rd gear!) New interior, new
dash, new body... Looks like it has Discovery mirrors, and similarly to
the Discovery, the "groove" running the length of the vehicle near the
top third of the door. Analog speedometer, with digital odometer and
information center that can display "hundreds"? of informational
messages about the vehicle, such as "Tailgate ajar" or "Headlights on"
or maybe even (WOW! Who's that in my passenger seat!" (I could be
slightly exaggerating here.. .) ;)

I also met Charles Hughes, president of Land Rover of North America, and
asked him many questions including the "phantom 110's and 90's" we've
all heard rumor of, to which he said he had heard the rumors, and if
they were true, he's have known about them. (Dashed my hopes... ) While
I had his ear, I pulled out my list of suggestions for the Discovery.
Most of these he said were design choices and wouldn't be changing.
(Also some are due to market demand, people want a "yuppie truck" and
are not concerned with FULL instrumentation.)

My suggestions were:
  1.) No ABS in 4WD-low range. (told that ABS still is the better
solution.)
  2.) Seat belts lock at an angle (no change) * I now use a paper clamp
to hold the belt from retracting if I exit the truck while on an angle.
  3.) Winch mount wanted. (Now available)
  4.) Automatic trans shift points. (no change)
  5.) Rear mud flaps break off. (Noted my comment, possible future
improvement.)
  6.) Binacle mounted controls blocked from view by steering wheel.
(Meant to be used by touch, but noted my suggestion to move the
indicator lights to the dash.)
  7.) Better seat adjustor than the "starwheel" thing. (Told me that the
market wants power seats, so that may be coming.)
  8.) Door lock buttons not on top of door sill. (Kind of looked at me
funny, like I'm silly for accidentally locking doors with my elbow...)
  9.) Arm rests on front doors. (Said "yeah, and nodded his head.)
  10.) Tail light guards a bad design. (Will look into this.) Mounted to
the side of the vehicle by rubber and double stick tape!
  11.) Locking differentials available. (Told me that the LR was
designed to get you home from "anywhere" and that this would add
unnecessary strain to the drive train. - no change)
  12.) Full gauges, oil, amp, trans temp. (note "market trend" "yuppie
truck" reply.)
  13.) No tachometer "redline" indicated. (Told that the engine is
governed at 5500 RPM anyway, not needed.)
  14.) Petrol model shouldn't use premium fuel. (long winded explanation
of power/performance... no change)
  15.) Front seat "side covers" are a bad design - get kicked off my
your feet. (Noted the problem, will investigate. Admitted that he's
heard of people breaking them.)
  16.) Need for opaque covers for the sunroofs. (Most likely only a
concern in the Arizona climate.)
  17.) Need anchor tie down places for rear "cargo" area. * my offroad
box of "stuff" gets thrown all over the back when 4-wheeling. (Noted my
suggestion, possible future fix.)

All in all, I was encouraged, he actually asked if he could have my
list, (which BTW had my name, phone # and e-mail address on it.) I asked
if he has an internet connection, he said no, but he's heard a lot about
it. I told him about lro@team.net. A great evening! If you get a chance
to check out the new RR, do it! But, as for offroading, it looks like
the only real improvements are the larger tires (tyres) the
transmission, and a little more horsepower.

Dave Brown - '94 LR Discovery - Phoenix Arizona USA

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |           thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 12:15:55 PST
From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot)
Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch

All, 

Okay, thanks for all your help, problem found. Master cylinder has gone !!!! I 
did buy a "One man bleed kit", connected it up and started pumping the pedal. 
Got under to check the fluid and got a face full from the leaking master 
cylinder. I knew I should have replaced it !!! Hindsight 20/20 etc. 

Now its off with the wing and replace the master cylinder and try again. The 
rebuild was going so well. Luckily I have not put the floor back in yet, I 
want everything running correctly before that goes back in. 

Here's another question to you all. SIII starter motors have a cloth covered 
lead from the starter housing to a lead that then connects to the starter 
switch. Is this correct ??

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 14:42:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: rover maintanence

On Mon, 6 Feb 1995, John Hess wrote:

> So, is there a gasket there?  There must be, right?  Part number please?  I
> can see I'm going to have to buy a parts books.  Does the parts book have
> lots of exploded diagrams?

	Between block and engine oil filter?

	Gasket part number is 598354  (#36 on page 1C 11 of IIA parts manual)

------------------------------

From: Kelly Minnick <minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Head Gaskets
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 13:12:49 PST

RE: Head Gaskets 

> I also spoke to a Rovers North representative and he said that over 
> the past few years, Land Rover has changed the flowrate patterns 
> through the engine by changing the head gasket. The only problem is 
none
OK.  Does my 'separate' head gasket have the correct flow patterns or not?
It's obvious that humidity AND temp play the part in overheating.  But with
all the big bucks I put into my motor, I don't want to warp it.  I have the
copper gasket that came with the 'Bearmark' (sp?) gasket set.  In my little
wisdom, I decided that I needed the 'much better' composite style.  Hence
paid the extra buck to BP.  Don't really want to pull off all that stuff,
but will ONLY if needed.  Seems to me that Land Rover needs to come clean
and make an official statement since they are pushing so hard for using
Genuine LR parts.  Where has it got me?  Who knows!
Kelly Minnick  '73 Safari
Ridgecrest, CA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 13:48:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Roland Sonnenburg <sonnenbr@ucs.orst.edu>
Subject: US Military Specs?

	
	Why did the US use Land Rovers as opposed to Hummvees, what model 
LR are these based on, and how do they differ from other Land Rovers.  
They sound like a great thing to me, but I (obviously) don't know much 
about them.  Any thoughts?
Roland

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 21:25:10 GMT
From: Richard Strysniewicz <Richard@ducati.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Misc. Questions                   

> Anyone had experience replacing the 'Rube Goldberg' designed chain tensioner
>with the newer alternative (looks like a conventional Reynolds pad type in
>the literature)?  Do I only need the appropriate chain to go with it?
Yes and yes.  I replaced the timing chain, gears, and tensioner on my 2.25 a 
month ago and used the newer tensioner.  It is simply a pad that rubs on the
chain, attached to the end of a piston-type assembly that is forced outwards
via oil pressure.  Quite a simple design compared to the older type - no 
spring, ratchet, or sprocket.  You will have to replace the chain as the new 
tensioner is designed to be used with a shorter chain.  While you are at it 
you might as well replace the sprockets.  You will need a gear puller to get
the crank sprocket off so get one beforehand if you do not already have one.
You might also want to replace the rub block as they only cost a few pounds
(dollars?)

Happy Wrenching,
Richard Strysniewicz                               DoD 1193  AMA 661768
Petersfield, UK                                    1991 907ie Bellarossa

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 15:43:28 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re:New Range Rover..and more.

In message <199502062000.PAA26426@transfer.stratus.com>  writes:
> FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
>        Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> SUBJECT: New Range Rover... preview, and more.
>snip 

> The new Range Rover is FABULOUS! And a "bargain" at (only) $54,000 US.

My Land Rover is semi-Fabulous and was a bargain at only $375 US.

> Talking with the sales-droid, everything is new, re-engineered.

Everything on mine was an evolutionary reengineer from the series I,  keeping 
the best & not making change just for the sake of change.

>  Yes, you can START in 3rd gear!)

My Land Rover is capable of being started in any gear combination including 3 hi
& 3 lo.  Why would this be a big deal.

> New interior,

Mine could use one

>  Analog speedometer, with digital odometer and

Mine has an alalogue speedometer & digital odometer too, so what

> information center that can display "hundreds"? of informational
> messages about the vehicle, such as "Tailgate ajar" or "Headlights on"
> or maybe even (WOW! Who's that in my passenger seat!" (I could be
> slightly exaggerating here.. .) ;)

Mine displays speed, RPM, fuel, water temp, current, voltage, oil pressure & if 
its time to turn off the choke.  You must manually turn your head to get a 
visual read out of doors or tailgate ajar.  Not a dificult task for most people.
The headlight on check is done by looking at the switch located in the centre 
bottom of the instrument panel.

>  I pulled out my list of suggestions for the Discovery.
> Most of these he said were design choices and wouldn't be changing.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>   1.) No ABS in 4WD-low range. (told that ABS still is the better
> solution.)

My Land Rover does not have ABS in low range

>   2.) Seat belts lock at an angle (no change) * I now use a paper clamp
> to hold the belt from retracting if I exit the truck while on an angle.

My seat belts do not retract when parked at an angle

>   3.) Winch mount wanted. (Now available)

Mine mounts to the front

>   4.) Automatic trans shift points. (no change)

Mine shift at excactly the point I wish

>   5.) Rear mud flaps break off. (Noted my comment, possible future
> improvement.)

Mine have been on the car since '78 and are still intact.

>   6.) Binacle mounted controls blocked from view by steering wheel.
> (Meant to be used by touch, but noted my suggestion to move the
> indicator lights to the dash.)

Binacle???? Mine are plainly layed out in easy view and reach of the driver

>   7.) Better seat adjustor than the "starwheel" thing. (Told me that the
> market wants power seats, so that may be coming.)

Just push a lever and the seat slides. peace of cake.  But mine is all the way 
back anyway.

>   8.) Door lock buttons not on top of door sill. (Kind of looked at me
> funny, like I'm silly for accidentally locking doors with my elbow...)

My Land Rover's lock buttons do not sit on top of the door sill.  No chance of 
accidently locking the door with an elbow... a rump maybe

>   9.) Arm rests on front doors. (Said "yeah, and nodded his head.)

My car has arm rests in the front doors

>   10.) Tail light guards a bad design. (Will look into this.) Mounted to
> the side of the vehicle by rubber and double stick tape!

Tail light guards effective but optional

>   11.) Locking differentials available. (Told me that the LR was
> designed to get you home from "anywhere" and that this would add
> unnecessary strain to the drive train. - no change)

Always been a problem but locking diffs available for 109s & 88s if you look & 
have mega$$$

>   12.) Full gauges, oil, amp, trans temp. (note "market trend" "yuppie
> truck" reply.)

Full guages standard

>   13.) No tachometer "redline" indicated. (Told that the engine is
> governed at 5500 RPM anyway, not needed.)

I added an electrical tach from a MGB.  It fits one of the two large guage holes
in the main instrument panel.  Pug & play add-on.  A redline is not needed 
because the engine runs out of steam before the engine would blow, about 4K RPM

>   14.) Petrol model shouldn't use premium fuel. (long winded explanation
> of power/performance... no change)

Pertol model does not need premium fuel.

>   15.) Front seat "side covers" are a bad design - get kicked off my
> your feet. (Noted the problem, will investigate. Admitted that he's
> heard of people breaking them.)

No problem in my 109

>   16.) Need for opaque covers for the sunroofs. (Most likely only a
> concern in the Arizona climate.)

My sun roof has second skin held off the lower first skin by plastic standoffs. 
Its opaque except for the two ovel windows on each side of the top.  Mind you 
opening the top takes 2 people & about 30 minutes.

>   17.) Need anchor tie down places for rear "cargo" area. * my offroad
> box of "stuff" gets thrown all over the back when 4-wheeling. (Noted my
> suggestion, possible future fix.)

Lots of places on the side to tie too.

> Dave Brown - '94 LR Discovery - Phoenix Arizona USA
> box of "stuff" gets thrown all over the back when 4-wheeling. (Noted my
> suggestion, possible future fix.)

Dave looking at your wish list, it looks to me like you should upgrade to a 88 
or 109 Land Rover.  It meets or exceeds most of your wish list ;*)

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: 06 Feb 95 20:11:41 EST
From: "WILLIAM  L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: UK registration numbers

So you want to know the UK vehicle registration system
 The first thing to note is the number represents the YEAR OF FIRST
REGISTRATION, and NOT the year of manufacture
 Up until 1962 the number generally consisted of a combination of letters and
numbers, two of the letters were codes for the office that issued tthe number,
the rest were the sequence number.
 In 1962 some offices had run out of sequence numbers so the A suffix was
started in 1963., some offices kept the old system for 63, then in 64 the whole
country started with the suffix B. 65 was C, 66 D, then in 67 the system
switched to an August change date , so E was 67 first half to the end of July ,
then F was 67 August 1 st  to july 31 st  68.
 68/69  G: 69/70 h: 70/71 J: 71/72 K; 72/73 L; 73/74 M, 74/75 N; 75/76 P; 76/77
R;
77/78 S; 78/79 T; 79/80 V ; 80/81 W ; 81/82 X; 82/83 Y
 Then it changed to a prefix letter,
 83/84  A; 84/85 B ; 85/86 C ;  86/87 D; 87/88 E; 88/89F ; 89/90 G; 90/91 H
;91/92 J;
 92/93 K; 93/94 L ; 94/95 M.
 It is possible to change the reg from one vehicle to another providing both
vehicles are licensed and tested, and of the same year of manufacture or OLDER,
not newer.
  Many LR's were released by the military in the 60's and 70's, they were given
the reg number of the 'year of registration', ie a 58 ser 1 released and
registered in say Feb 69 would have a G plate.
 Then in 83 they stopped issuing numbers of the year of registration for older
vehicles, many were then given a Q prefix, unless the YEAR OF MANUFACTURE could
be proven, then they were given a year related number.
 Are you with me so far ?.
 If you build a LR body of say 64 vintage onto a RR chassis of say 76 vintage
you can use either number if you conveniently lose the one you do not want.
therefore there are plenty of 60's ser 2 's with coil sprung chassis about in
the club circuit.
 Caveat emptor. The LR as we all know is a big kit car, therefore there are many
motors on the roads that are not what they seem, it is so easy to change the
bulkhead number plate, Craddock sells  blank replacements for 15 bucks, the ones
from Rover cost a couple of hundred dollars and need plenty of documentation.
 It is possible to send the log book to Swansea ( licensing centre for the
country ) and have the engine number changed with no formality.
 Log books carry the written warning that a log book is not proof of ownership.
 Log books can be bought ,sold , exchanged in several places, not legaly  I
might add, to  give any year of reg. you want.
 Pre suffix reg numbers usually command a premium in the used number market,
many older vehicles are worth more for their numbers than for the vehicle.
 There are a few pre suffix numbers issued nowadays that cannot be exchanged
from one vehicle to another, they contain the letters WS as the last of the
three letter sequence.  Makes me feel old now that I think of the days we looked
for a B reg on the 1st Jan 1964 to see which neighbour could afford a new car.
Many people now wait for the new letter in August each year.
 Hope that it is clearer than mud,  any questions give me acall.
  regards    Bill  Leacock    limey in exile  ( cold exile, it was -40 wind
chill yesterday )

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 19:22:43 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Importing Land Rovers

Keep in mind that a standard conversion like a Carawagon or Doormobile is 
not the only way to go.  A standard 109 (PU or SW) can be turned into a 
wonderful home-away-from-home.  I have seen some beautiful work done.  Even 
my own clumsy attempts at woodworking have resulted in a very useful mobile 
home.  My girlfriend and I took my 109" all through western Canada this 
past summer.  

One of the main benefits of a DIY conversion is that you can truly tailor 
it for your lifestyle.  Mine, for example, is completely removeable, and 
I'm working on a desk that could be used instead of the cabinets.  (I can 
then use it as a mobile office when working.)  I really enjoy figuring out 
what to do next, and stealing ideas from others.  It's also great when you 
find some neat item that would be perfect in a LR, even though that's not 
what it was designed for.  (Like the "Hockey puck" halogen lights I'm going 
to use that are intended for kitchens.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 19:22:35 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: More!

> > (In the next lesson, we learn how Landy and Rangey had 2 sons, Def and 
> > Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> Please go on!
> - Stephen

I'll second that emotion!  (Do we sit, stand or kneel during this part?) 
singing hallelujias...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 23:01:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Leaf springs

Tom Stevenson wonders.....

> By the way, who is Rube Goldberg? Is he of the same ilk as
> Heath-Robinson?

Haven't a clue who this Heath-Robinson is/was but Rube Goldberg (1883-1970)
was an American cartoonist who drew fantistically complicated devices that
preformed the simplest operations. These typically involved chickens laying
eggs, candles burning ropes, balls rolling down ramps, buckets of water,
gogs, gears, levers and anything else you could imagine. The term "a Rube
Goldberg" usually is used to describe a device that is way to complicated
for what it has to do (like the clutch/brake linkage on a Ser I)!! This term
sadly isn't used as much as it used to, except by us "old farts"..  :)

I think that there is some engineering school here in the States that has a
Rube Goldberg contest every year. The students have to design and build some
really rediculous machine. And, it has to work, too! 

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 23:01:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: rover maintanence

John Hess changes his oil....

> While changing the oil, I was able to locate the source of an oil leak (I
> think).  I believe oil is leaking from the adapter/block interface;  I
------------
> So, is there a gasket there?  There must be, right?  Part number please?

John... can't help with the part number.. Seems there should be a gasket
there... If all else fails, make one yourself. Brown paper bag works fine
for that sort of stuff or you can go to an auto parts store and buy some
gasket material. Clean up the adaptor and trace out the outline. There is
also a technique where you use a very light hammer (a tack hammer works
well). Hold the paper against the surface you want to make the gasket for
and tap the paper with the hammer. You have to tap hard enough to leave an
outline of the surface but *not* hard enough to damage the metal surface. If
you do it right, you can usually seperate the "gasket" from the surrounding
material without having to cut anything. It works, really. 

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
 

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 23:02:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: US Military Specs?

Roland wonders....

>         Why did the US use Land Rovers as opposed to Hummvees, what model 
> LR are these based on, and how do they differ from other Land Rovers.  

I believe that it was 110's and the US Army Rangers purchased them. The
story I heard was that during the "Desert Storm" operation, the Rangers were
sufficiently impressed when they saw 110's pulling out Hummers that were
stuck in the sand. (I could be wrong, but it *does* sound good!) Also, you
gotta remember, the Hummers were designed for any idiot to drive - diesel
engine and automatic transmission. (Not that there's anything wrong with a
diesel.) The transmissions were prone to failure because the motor pool
jockeys didn't know how to adjust them, or some such nonsense. The 110 was
a *much* better choice.

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 23:04:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re:New Range Rover..and more.

On Mon, 6 Feb 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

> My Land Rover is semi-Fabulous and was a bargain at only $375 US.

	Hmmm, not bad.  Mine was $1500 with a pto winch (Koenig), but then
	again that's denoted in the northern Peso & it is a 109 Station Wagon.

> My Land Rover is capable of being started in any gear combination including 3 hi
> & 3 lo.  Why would this be a big deal.

> > New interior,
> Mine could use one
none

	Original interior included in purchase price.  Actually in very 
	good condition (stored in the basement)

> My seat belts do not retract when parked at an angle

	Mine has no seat belts to retract at any angle & none are required
	(seat belts required after 1972 in Canada, 1968 in the US I believe)

> >   3.) Winch mount wanted. (Now available)
> Mine mounts to the front
none

	So does mine, but there are others in OVLR that have the centre 
	mounted type as well as rear mounted winches.  Options include
	electric, pto, crank, hydraulic in drum or capstan styles.

> >   14.) Petrol model shouldn't use premium fuel. (long winded explanation
> > of power/performance... no change)
> Pertol model does not need premium fuel.
none

	Standard 2.25l will take down to 63 octane fuel.  Change the 
	distributor for an earlier one (compared to my 109) and you can 
	have multi-fuel adaptability where you can go with portions of
	kerosene etc.

	Rgds,  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:43:03 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch

I have a spring loaded bleed screw in the slave. Just loosen the bleed 
screw about a turn, attach hose to jar (if you care), pump slow 'till you
feel no more bubbles (keep the reservour full), tighten screw, remove tube.
There, wasn't that easy.

R, bg

------------------------------

From: Kelly Minnick <minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: Parts
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 22:11:38 PST

RE: Parts
Timing chain #ETC5191 and adjuster #ETC5190 look like they are a pair.  The
price from Craddocks is $13.91 and $26.36 US.  This is all BP sells.  Don't
know if it is better, but there are fewer parts.  I've replaced two adjusters
& idler gears in my SIII.  If that hardened return stop falls out one more
time, its either the new style or the Zeusus gear thing ($300).  The oil pump
shows as #RTC2554 in both my books, but Paddock probably has a new superseeded
number or something...  Good luck.
Kelly Minnick  '73 88" Safari
Ridgecrest, CA

------------------------------

From: Kelly Minnick <minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: Tires
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 22:18:16 PST

RE: Tires
16" Tires are the way to go.  I'm running 7.50 X 16 10 ply Atlas bias ply
tires.  Free-standing, they are about 32.5" tall.  They rub slightly in
the upper part of the rear fender (wing) well during max. wheel articulation.
These cost $150 per pair mounted and balanced!  They also have great side-wall
protection for things like nasty vulcanic rock (i.e. desert rock).  The
Goodrich Mud Terrain 235/85 X 16 would be my choice if I wasn't so cheap. They
are about the same height, but easier to steer, quieter, better mileage (in
gas and tread)...  Have fun
Kelly Minnick  '73 88" Safari
Ridgecrest, CA

p.s. Large Daim. tires are a cheap man's overdrive!

------------------------------

From: UncleBrad@aol.com
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 01:59:56 -0500
Subject: Engine swaps

I know that someone is going to make a comment about my glowing praise of the
Chevy six in my 109. I said that it could pull at 500 rpms but you probably
don't think that's anything special. I neglected to say that this is in high
range which I think is a little bit more satisfactory. In low range, it is
also much stronger than the 2.5 liter Land Rover engine. 

I do love to see a stock Rover. But I think that those who say the converted
Land Rover is inferior are mistaken. It just depends on what you are going to
use it for. 

Hope this clarification heads off any ridicule before it gets to me.

Brad Blevins

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 


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