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From: Robert Meredith <robm@hpman010.uksr.hp.com>
Subject: tyre sizes
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 8:57:38 BST

Folks,

I am getting confused, can someone give a definitive explanation of tyre
sizes that can be understood by a dunce like me.

For example how you work out the actual diameter of the tyre etc, and what
tyres you can put on 15 & 16 inch rims. Does it make a difference which
size rims you run, I've got a 88" S111 1973.

Anyway I hope someone can clear the wood fom the trees!!

Cheers,

Rob Meredith.

------------------------------

Subject: Administrivia  'Re: sc00per'
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 06:48:48 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

    
>   From: SC00PER@aol.com
>   Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:56:23 -0400
>   Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail...
    
>   unsubscribe me

I was about to write a letter insulting the intelligence of the lowest
common demoninator and  AOL subscribers (which I often would like to), but
I decided to see if Sc00per was really a zero or not.  He did infact contact
Majordomo and he asked to 'unsubscribe lro'.

Majordomo's a nice enough chap, but he's a bit hard of hearing, and thus
understands things only in a certain context, so if you omit key words,
he'll either give you no information or something you  don't want.  He
basically lives for the 'lro-digest' list, but I tried to lie to him and
make him think there was an 'lro' list that he dealt with also.

Now, we have to go back to when I set it up and made 'lro' a link to 
'lro-digest', I tried to lie to Majordomo, and for the most part it worked.

BUT, evidently, that link got transformed into a seperate file and thus
the two were not the same by the time Sc00per did the not-quite-correct
unsubscribe.

[I could chastise Sc00per to being a bit juvenile in his bid to attract
 attention, instead of writing to majordomo-owner, but I empathize with
 his frustration, so I won't.]

As for the files, I've changed the lro file to be root owned and read-only,
so subsequent operations for subscribe/un-subscribe should fail outright,
just remember it is 'lro-digest' if that is what you get.

 -- Bill

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 07:30:08 -0400
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: Re: Tire Sizes

none

For example how you work out the actual diameter of the tyre etc, and what
tyres you can put on 15 & 16 inch rims.  Does it make a difference which
size rims you run, I've got a 88" S111 1973.

none

Bob,

I'm not a tire guru, but considering how quiet the net has been lately, I was 
afraid you might get no answers at all.

On the sidewall numbers, such as 235R 15 or 7.50R 16, the first figure is the 
cross section of the tire in mm or Inches.  The height, if there are no other 
figures, is 85%.  So on a 7.50R 16 tire do: 7.5" X 85% = 6.375".  Since 
there's rubber on both sides of the rim, double that and add to the rim 
diameter:  6.375" X 2 = 12.75", 12.75" + 16" = 28.75" tire diameter.

If the tire were (hypothecically) 7.50 70R 16, the height would be 70% of the 
cross section.  For metric sizes you'll need to do a little conversion.  I 
have Sears LT AT 235 70R 15s on my 88 and they do OK.  Zippy around town with 
decent handling and OK in the rain.  One day I may switch to 7.5R 16s to 
improve fuel economy, reduce highway noise, and improve the ride (this is 
what folks with US 88s that have switched to 16" rims have experienced).  But 
not today.

I'm sure other folks will be glad to share their experiences.

Bill

88 IIA & 109 Wagon

Wayne, NJ USA

maloney@wings.attmail.com

(Over half my messages this morning were from someone trying to unsubscribe. 
I hope this isn't a trend).

------------------------------

From: UncleBrad@aol.com
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 08:13:19 -0400
Subject: LRW/LRO club support

Sandy Grice writes
"Just got a *free* copy of LRW magazine...the cover letter says they are
going to send it to the club for free!  That is a heck-of-a-sight better
than LRO has ever done. After publishing one of my *copyrighted* articles,
LRO wouldn't even give a year's subscription (or answer a polite letter for
that matter)."

The Land Rover Owners' Association , North America has had the same
experience with LRO. We've sent in several articles that we thought would be
good reading. Also several letters & phone calls - not a single response.
They don't seem to think we're worth their time.

LRW, on the other hand, has also given us a free subscription and a discount
to members. I think that's good business & wish them success in the North
American market.

Brad Blevins
Editor, The Aluminum Workhorse

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: tyre sizes
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 14:17:48 BST

Bob,
I think Bill has answered the question you asked(so *that's how
its done,is it?I never knew but didnt like to ask,thanks Bill).
If you're in the UK,you could do far worse than 205 16 Trakker
Radial remoulds.I paid 35quid each for mine,including VAT,and
fitted.They appear to be a good compromise tyre,and the ride
and cornering are vastly improved.
The manual says(and this is the 11A manual)that 88" can run on
6.00,6.50,7.00 or 7.50 cross ply's.109",it says,7.50 or 9.00.
That latter I take with a pinch of salt,personally.Radials arent
mentioned,which isnt surprising judging by the publication date
of the manual.Which leaves the question of tyre pressures very 
much up in the air(oooooh,sorry,unintentional I assure you).
I run mine at the 25lbs recommended for cross plys in the manual,
and they seem OK,I increase the rears to 30lbs for towing a horsebox.
However,I'm not certain that this is correct.So if anyone has different
opinions/experiences can we hear them please?For information,the tyres
resemble Trac Edges in tread pattern,the vehicle is an 88" 11A Diesel
1970 vintage.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 07:40:29 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Diesel problems...

FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB204 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Diesel problems...
While I'm not a "real" mechanic, I have done much mechanical work
(engine r&r, transmission r&r clutches, rebuild carbs, etc...) I have
not had the (mis)fortune to work on diesels. However, two possibilities
come to mind:

  1.) Check for vacuum leaks

  2.) Check for broken/cracked valve spring. Maybe the valve is
      "floating" under loaded conditions???

Just some thoughts... let us know what you find!

#=====#                  Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|___|__\___              can change the world... indeed, it's the only
|   |   |  |             thing that ever has.
""O""""""O""                                            -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:29:23 -0400
From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney)
Subject: LRW Binders

In August I called LRW to order the back issues and a binder.  The girl on 
the line took my back issue order but referred me to another number for the 
binder.  Once I got off the line with her, I realized the number she gave me 
was one digit short.  I gave it a try anyway and it was undialable.  I called 
her back and read back the number.  She read it back to me and confirmed it 
was correct.  She explained that the number was to Lancashire (?), that the 
number was correct, and they called that number all the time.  But you can't 
dial it from the US.  And she wouldn't call them with my info to place the 
order.  So I sent a note with my Credit Card number and waited.  And waited. 
 I just received a note from them saying they were sorry but they could not 
accept payment by credit card.  They deal in checks or money orders only.  It 
also apologized for the ad stating Credit Cards were accepted - they said it 
was a printing error.

Just a heads up for any who are interested.

Bill

maloney@wings.attmail.com

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Re: LRW Binders
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:44:26 -0600 (MDT)

Baloney relates his problem with LRW telephones etc.

I empathize, but only from my own stupidity....  Last time I called
LRW, I forgot to dial the country code.  As fate would have it, the
Croydon area code (i.e. LRW editorial offices) is the same as the
country code for Japan.  So, I tuned in to a frenetic, but sexy
Japanese recording.  It was so mesmerizing I listened to it three
times.

Baloney's problems reminds me of a classic excuse from our polar
friends:  Canada had the unique historic and geographic opportunity to
create a paradise on earth based on British government, French culture
and American business; but they screwed up royally and opted instead
for American culture, British business and French government.

T. F. Mills                                              tomills@du.edu
University of Denver Library  2150 E. Evans Ave.  Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Rallye
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 10:00:52 -0500

"Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> writes:

> e) browns are running on the esopus

        ???  What are you talking about???

> f) Dixon told me he was going.

        Dixon doesn't have a very good excuse, true or false.

> Dixon??  Oh, Dixon............?  CAN we (both) say W - I - M - P?
> rd/nigel (he's pissed at me!)
none

        Nigel should be pissed off at you, though I would have been amazed if
        you had brought Nigel down to Virginia.  As for the wimp bit, maybe,
        maybe not.  We will see later on about this... :-)

        Rgds,

        Dixon

        PS.  New job is swamping me with paper and eating into serious net
             time in a big way.  STill don't have the 56k link installed.
             They lied and I want my toy...  :-)

--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry,            |    Ottawa Valley Land Rovers
Nepean, Ontario, Canada       |    1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean
(OVLR's InterNet site)        |    Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 08:46:20 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Peirce Manifolds / Weber 2-barrel

In message <199410140154.AA24627@crl.crl.com> Roger Sinasohn writes:
> Well, given that the weber is at least $150+ (from the UK), and I don't 
> really know how to install it, I think I'm gonna hold off on it.  For now.  I 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
> San Francisco, California                               

Roger.
I took at poll at the Palo Alto British car meet a couple of years ago when I 
noticed that several of the land rovers there had 2 barrel webbers on them.  I 
only found one person who thought there was an improvement.  That person had a 
header and 2.5L petrol spec cam.  I suspect everyone else was over carbed for 
their cam.

I wonder where you get the trick speed parts for Land ROvers ;*)

Meanwhile...
Scotty did get a chance to pull my oil pan.  Dirt and unidentified parts of my 
engine littered the bottom.  Scotty thinks they are parts of the timing chain.  
So his next investigation is to pull the timing cover.  I still haven't talked 
him into pulling a rod cap & looking at a crank journal.  Sigh, now that I've 
got my transmission paid for its time to start saving for engine parts :^(

TeriAnn Wakeman        Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com     upside down and backwards     
LINK: TWAKEMAN              
408-974-2344                         TR3A - TS75519L, 
                       MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561

------------------------------

Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rallye
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 09:57:21 -0500

LANDROVER@delphi.com writes:

> Oh, Dixon... thought you were going to go?? OK, so it *was* the Canadian
> Thanksgiving holiday but Tom, Brett and Dave from Toronto showed up. :)
> Ben (of Bill and Ben go up a creek fame) was there and proved he could do
> some real off-roading. Bill Maloney was there too.  

        Everything fell apart at the last minute.  Am kinda pissed off that
        I missed the whole show, but to salve my feelings I went out and
        bought an early Series IIA diesel 109 pick-up.  With the 500km
        of driving to get it though, I should probably have gone down alone
        to Virginia.  It does sound like I missed a good time...  :-(

        Rgds,

--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry,            |    Ottawa Valley Land Rovers
Nepean, Ontario, Canada       |    1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean
(OVLR's InterNet site)        |    Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4

------------------------------

Subject: LRovers in Canada?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 09:47:19 -0500

Dave <Dave@scooby.demon.co.uk> writes:

> There is a possibility that I may be moving from the UK to Canada
> (Toronto), which means I will have to sell my 1980 Series III SWB.

        If you move next year, you can bring the series III with you.
        Canada has a fifteen year rule for importing vehicles.  Once
        they are over that age, you can bring anything you want in.

> Does anyone know if LRovers are available in Canada?

        Yes, the new once as of this year, the older ones as they appear.

> I suppose ideally I'd like to get hold of a second hand 90 Turbo Diesel
> (Yup, I wanna move up in the world!) So if anyone has any info on
> availability, pricing etc, I'd be really greatful!

        Not a chance.  No Turbo Diesels over here unless you want to try
        and get one of the British Army Turbo DIesels, but that raises
        an whole host of other problems.

        Rgds,

        Dixon

--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry,            |    Ottawa Valley Land Rovers
Nepean, Ontario, Canada       |    1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean
(OVLR's InterNet site)        |    Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 08:52:41 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail...

Send requests for alias changes to; land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com

	                      ^
	                     | |
	                   @#####@
	                 (###   ###)-.
	               .(###     ###) \
	              /  (###   ###)   )
	             (=-  .@#####@|_--"
	             /\    \_|l|_/ (\
	            (=-\     |l|    /
	             \  \.___|l|___/
	             /\      |_|   /
	            (=-\._________/\
	             \             /
	               \._________/
	                 #  ----  #
	                 #   __   #
	                 \########/
Regards, Bill G.

> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 22:01 PDT 1994
> Sender: SC00PER@aol.com
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
> Digest....
> -Steve

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 10:12:15 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re: Tire Sizes

I was glad to find out a piece of info from this -- I've often wondered what the 
aspect reatio is for RR 205 R16 tires is -- so I gues it must be 85%. That 
does indeed correspond to my calculations using the outside diameter.

Thanks!!

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: 14 Oct 94 17:14:15 EDT
From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com>
Subject: Defender Success Etc.

I was down at the dealer this morning getting the hood release cable 
replaced on my Defender (the cable pulls out of the handle apparently on 
just about every Defender they've seen) when I had a chance to talk with 
one of the sales people. He was pretty nice and even let me watch a LRNA 
video that was produced for the sales personnel at the dealerships, not for 
civilians like me. Here's what I learned from the conversation and video:

1.) Apparently only 500 Defender 110's were brought in for '93 because this 
was the maximum number permissible without meeting DOT safety requirements. 
This may be but I wonder if LRNA didn't want the 110 cluttering up their 
offerings once the Discovery was released.

2.) A hardtop Defender 90 will be available in '95 although the specifics 
were unknown and he said it would be fiberglass. Based on what I've heard 
here on the net I suspect he was confusing the retrofit fiberglass top with 
the factory installed metal top.

3.) There is to be a 2-3% across the board price hike for '95.

4.) This particular dealer has sold about 6 Defender 90's a month (southern 
California).

5.) This dealer got 2 "special edition" 90's. One was pre-sold and the 
other sold the day it was received.

6.) There will be NO Defender 90's imported after the '95 model year. The 
reason given was safety, specifically the fact that there are no airbags on 
the Defender and I suppose no plan to fit them (no doubt this would involve 
some significant design and engineering efforts). From the discussion it 
seems that SUV's (which the Defender is classed as) and pickups must meet 
the same safety requirements as autos, or at least have airbags, in '96. I 
wonder about this so does anyone out there know if this is correct? Usually 
there is some sort of GVWR exception threshold (such as for emmissions 
etc.). Maybe in this case it's 8,000 or 10,000 lbs.

7.) The top delaership in terms of Defender 90 sales is located in Salt 
Lake City, UT. The salesperson with the highest sales of 90's is at a New 
Jersey dealership.

8.) The video makes some rather interesting suggestions about how to sell 
the Defender 90. Basically it should not be sold in the same manner as a 
Range Rover or Discovery. The Defender 90 should be presented in such a 
fashion so as to make an on-the-spot sale. Whereas the RR and Discovery can 
be presented based on their rational attributes the salesperson should 
build on the potential buyer's feelings with respect to the Defender and 
the buyer should not be allowed to build a list of why nots as it would 
quickly grow and the sale would most likely be lost. One of the 
salespersons interviewed said that he was seeing middle-aged men who used 
to buy Corvettes come in and buy Defender's. It should be noted that other 
points of view were expressed. It seemed that the method which worked was 
dependent on where the dealer was located. One dealership said they let the 
Defender sell itself by presenting its technical attributes and displaying 
them outdoors where they could be seen from the adjacent interstate.

9.) There is a nifty new "bull" bar available for the 90's. It's one of 
those cute little jobs which is the shape of a hoop (i.e. an upsidedown u). 
It's about as wide as the radiator grill so it protects just about nothing. 
Even the salesperson I spoke with called it "mickey mouse". I hope that  
this is not an omen as to what we can expect in terms of future products.

BTW I've seen some pictures of the new Range Rover and while it looks good 
(especially compared to the competition) it doesn't look like a Land Rover 
or Range Rover ought to. It's too "clean". Usefulness of brush bars aside 
they can look good on the "old" Range Rover but they will be totally out of 
place on the new one (just like they are on every other American and 
Japanese SUV except maybe the Land Cruiser). Well, that's my opinion.

I hope someone finds something I've said here interesting <g>.

Treading Lightly...

Stephen O'Hearn
'94 Defender 90

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Defender Success Etc.
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 14:39:07 PDT

> I was down at the dealer this morning getting the hood release cable 
> replaced on my Defender (the cable pulls out of the handle apparently on 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> video that was produced for the sales personnel at the dealerships, not for 
> civilians like me. Here's what I learned from the conversation and video:
We pulled out a cable on the demo model at the rally. Being the resourceful
fellow that we are, we took some string, and a land rover key fob and
tied it to the cable under the grill so one could open the hood.

Russ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 15:27:47 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  Defender Success Etc.

Yes -- Thanks Stephen for the info on Defender 90's. I know lots of us are 
interested!

Personally I am disappointed if it's true the 90 won't be imported after next
year -- I think that's disgusting! I was secretly hoping to get one one day.
I can't help thinking Land Rover is steadily going soft in the head, so to
speak, and moving away from its tradition of building uncompromising
vehicles which are the best off-road vehicles on the market. As for the
new Range Rover, it looks like a prime example to me. When the first RR
came out it was the best off-road vehicle in the world; in the case of the 
new one that contention would be highly debatable. It seems to me that if
Land Rover tries to out-Explorer Ford they are doomed to lose in the long run.

While at the San Rafael dealership recently I was reading some words of wisdom
from Charlie Hughes on the success of LRNA since 1987. There was depressingly
little evidence that off-road ability was considered a factor at all in the 
company's sales strategy. I suppose the best one can say is that they still
give it a bit more emphasis than the competition!

Well, perhaps these views are a bit too cynical -- sorry to blow off steam
about this!

Cheers

John Brabyn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 15:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Defender Success Etc.

On 14 Oct 1994, Stephen O'Hearn wrote:

> BTW I've seen some pictures of the new Range Rover and while it looks good 
> (especially compared to the competition) it doesn't look like a Land Rover 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> place on the new one (just like they are on every other American and 
> Japanese SUV except maybe the Land Cruiser). Well, that's my opinion.
I agree from what I've seen. It seems to me the clean sheet redesign
of the RR could have been used to do more than make it into a BMW. Why 
not use the opportunity to also enhance off-road capability so it really 
could claim to be the best there is -- e.g. they could have increased wheel
travel even further, used either electronically disconnecting sway bars or
an active electronic suspension to avoid the need for sway bars at all, 
use bigger diameter wheels/tires and increase ground clearance, and 
improve rather than worsen the breakover and departure angles. Maybe 
those are tall orders, but it seems to me that if the RR is not going to 
try to be the best all-round off roader, but merely the most luxurious, 
something will have been lost.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 23:51:45 -0400
From: Andrew Steele <ad158@DAYTON.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject: Mid Atlantic Rally\Great Expedition Book

First, let me complement Sandy Grice and everyone else who helped to make the
Mid-Atlantic Rally a wonderful event.  This was the first rally I've ever
attended, so I was not sure what to expect.   Finding the large tents,
complete with shrubs and planters, at each stake is just one example of the
detail and extensive preparation given the site.  Given the size of some of
the mowed down stubble in the fields, again I must think that a lot of effort
was extended to prepare the site.

I must confess I was one of many who lost a rear corner bumper cap as the rear
dragged dropping into the creek crossing.  However, as I pointed out to
several folks, the missing portion of my front spoiler was previously
deposited in Ohio.  As this makes the umpteenth time I've lost the rear bumper
caps, it may be time to find an alternative, functional, design.

Anyway, I liked the looks of the Camel Trophy Great Expedition Book at the
silent auction.  (Others liked it more than I on Sunday after I had to leave).
To wit, I've gone to my local bookstore in an attempt to order such. 
Unfortunately, we could not find it listed within the books in print computer.
Does anyone have a copy from which you could post to me the ISBN number?

More impressions of the Rally:
    - Friday night was cold, dog was shivering violently even as she slept. 
      she even tolerated being completly covered over with my extra blanket, to
      little effect.  (It may be time to wean her off the waterbed)

    - I know much less about Land Rovers than I thought.

    - Very comforting to arrive and actually know other LRO list members were 
      around.

    - The dealership had less than a stellar display.  One new Range Rover and
      one used Range Rover.  Maybe they were low key on purpose?

    - Defender 90, I saw, I drove, I want.   ($$$ ouch, no time soon I guess)

    - An overw      orry , gotta go, out of time

Andrew
87 RR
Dayton, Ohio

------------------------------

From: FHYap@aol.com
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 01:35:10 -0400
Subject: Oil consumption

I have been informed by a LR mechanic that the 3.9V8 should not consume more
than 1 quart per 5,000 miles and that this limit is an EPA requirement.  Does
anyone know of any EPA or other federal regulation (or statute) regarding
allowable oil consumption?

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 

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