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From: "Jurgen Klus" <PSJK@psy1.ssn.flinders.edu.au>
Date:          Thu, 22 Sep 1994 16:30:21 GMT-0930
Subject:       Coming Over!

Hi.
I've just "found" this superb mailing list. Just quickly,
I've got a V8i Discovery 3.5ltr. (I guess that qualifies me!)
Question1.  I'll be visiting USA early October (Ft Lauderdale)
and then New York (after a brief visit with my brother in
London) - is there anyone out there from either of the US
areas?
Question 2. I may wish to purchase the odd bit e.g. a Thomas
air compressor for the tyres. Does anyone know of a 4WD
equipment supplier that has good prices in either Fl or N.Y.?
These compressors are very expensive in Australia, about
$300+, and as they are made in the US, the preice should be
better.

The Disco is a good off-road vehicle, in the Land Rover tradition.
Unfortunately, they have a lot of little, inexcusable problems
which you need to sort out after delivery! I'll leave it at that.

Jurgen Klus  Tel 618 201 2413    Fax 618 201 3877
When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover!

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Diesel Landrovers
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 17:03:03 BST

I agree with Paul.My 1970 2.25 88" shows all the aforementioned
characteristics,with the exception of startling fuel economy(How
do you do it Paul?).I reckon on about 20-23mpg.
The diesel has *some* disadvantages,however.Spares are generally
that bit more expensive.In the case of the starter motor,MUCH more
expensive.Injectors have to be serviced by other people,I doubt
you could ever do them yourself.Noise,and the lack of top speed has
already been noted.A valve stuck open is immediately fatal,where on
the petrol it isnt,necessarily.I speak from experience,there:-((
Wet weather performance....well,any amount of rain wont stop you,
but cold weather starting *can* be a stressfull experience,particularly
with the standard series wired heater plugs working on trade union
principles(one out,all out).Help *is* at hand with that one,though,
a set of aftermarket parallel wored heater plugs,with fitting instructions
is available at about twenty five quid.And in winter,you should treat
a half full tank as though it is empty otherwise the fuel will tend to
wax up.Having said that,though,I've had no trouble in the eight years of
ownership,even though I have been known to ignore that particular rule.
The expensive items to replace are:-Starter motor,injectors,distributor
pump.The latter two you generally get overhauled unless you are *very*
unlucky.Other engine items are slightly more expensive than the petrol
versions,but not prohibitively so.Front springs cost more(leafers only),
simply because they have more leaves to take the extra weight.Running
out of fuel can be fun,due to the necessity of bleeding the fuel system
when you put some more in.
The advantages are,lots of low down "grunt",long life(given Paul's simple
precautions),mechanical cruise control,otherwise known as a hand throttle,
an easy engine to work on,better fuel economy,and that superior feeling
you get when driving along and you smell petrol,and you *know* it isnt you.
Go for it!Diesels are great!
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 10:26:37 -0700
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Desert Protection

Well, I tried to resist but am going to put in my 1.3 pence worth, regarding 
the call for antagonists to the desert protection bill...

On the whole, I agree with Uncle Roger and with Walt Swain, both of whom 
said it well.  On the other hand, I do realize that the Land-Rover desert 
addicts are a special breed, very much steeped in the Tread Lightly! 
philosophy, long before it got a name.  Guys like John Kirn, who used to 
have, lettered on the glass of his rear door: "The silence of the desert is 
like no other sound... listen."  And Marvin Matson, writing in the fall 
issue of the _Aluminum_Workhorse_, gave an intelligent view of issues 
involved in making the desert more "accessible" to the general 
(non-off-roader) public.  He did not mention the pending legislation, just 
described a trip through the Black Rock Desert and the Emmigrant Trail with 
some BLM pukes and maybe some other federales.

Regarding concerns that, if the Park Service gets ahold of the desert, it 
will ruin it like it ruined Yosemite.  Where does this come from?  I am a 
long-time devotee of Yosemite and my wife a much longer-time one.  We met 
working up there (I used to do the fire fall).  We have seen Yosemite when 
it was still relatively uncrowded, seen what it became like at its most 
crowded, and what the Park Service did to deal with the situation.  And we 
feel that the Park Service has done a really creditable job of preserving 
the resource while making it available to a large number of people.

I feel that it is unrealistic to try to hold onto the past, to maintain the 
status quo.  Our population is exploding, our resources are dwindling, and 
off-road vehicles are proliferating at a staggering rate.  The desert is an 
extremely fragile biome.  If we want to preserve access, to the extent that 
it can still be done, we must be active in the Tread Lightly education 
programs and we must do something about population growth.  There are, in my 
view, already far too many people and yet a lot of even relatively 
well-educated young couples seem to have no compunctions about having as 
many children as they want.  

Every freedom carries a heavy price of responsibility.  I think most 
Land-Rover owners are highly responsible citizens but that far too many 
others are not.  Too many think freedom means being able to do whatever you 
want.  That attitude is precisely what is costing us all our freedoms.  
Education is the key but, even with the best efforts, the effects are very 
slow to be realized.

Sorry, I kinda got carried away! 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4]
[ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net              Phone: (707) 485-7220 ]
[ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway!  ]
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Range Rover springs
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 11:26:31 PDT

During my last offroad adventure, I noticed that I was reshaping
my gas tank everytime I went down a large ledge. Since I tread
lightly, and don't travel lightly, my thought on the problem
was to get some heavy duty springs for the beast.
The main use for the truck is to pull a 3500lb pop-up
camper, and off-road exploring. When traveling my cargo weight including
passengers is from 650 to 750lbs depending on how much yuppie water
I have in the cooler, plus 270lbs hitch weight when pulling the
trailer. The self leveling unit is still working, and this
helps when pulling the trailer, but during slow rock crawling it
seems  to be next to useless.

I was thinking that maybe some defender, or discovery springs
might keep the truck from bottoming out on the ledges.

Any recommendations ???

Thanks
Russ Burns
see ya in Virginia

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 12:36:01 -0700
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Scotty conversions

I have not personally undertaken one of these conversions (although I have 
often considered it).  However, I once owned a '67 109 SW which had a Chev 
235 l-6 in it and can attest the the joy of the performance (without 
noticing any particular penalty in fuel economy compared with what I have 
heard with the Land-Rover f-head 2.6l 6-cyl).  That one was not a Scotty 
conversion, however.

Also, I know a fellow in my town who put a Scotty conversion in a '68 109" 
SW (which had had a Land-Rover 6 in it) with a Chev 250 l-6.  He did a very 
sanitary factory-looking job of the conversion.  He did, however, find that 
Scotty's instructions, both in the scanty documentation provided with the 
"kit" and over the phone, were somewhat sparce.  I called, today, and talked 
to him about the conversion.  He said that the kit, as far as it went, was 
well made.  

However, his recollection was that he had to find a certain type of Chevy 
flywheel and then have it machined to work (remove about 3/8" thickness to 
allow the clutch room to engage properly, i.e., not slip) and that he also 
used a Chevy 9" clutch disk and pressure plate (cover).  He found that 
clutch to be sort of marginal for that engine.  It occured to me that his 
problems might be unique to a conversion to a gearbox which was originally 
fitted to an f-head (6-cylinder or Series I 4-cyl) Land-Rover engine, due 
the the narrower bell housing used for those engines.  If that were the only 
reason for the problems, you could perhaps solve them by changing the bell 
housing to one for a 2.25 liter four cylinder Land-Rover.

He also mentioned the difficulty of working out all the details of cooling 
the engine properly and felt that a custom shroud for the radiator was 
needed.  I have heard from others with American sixes and V-8s in 
Land-Rovers that cooling is a persistent problem.  

Another problem with fitting most V-6s and V-8s is room for the exhaust next 
to the steering box.  The solution to that one, apparently, is to modify the 
bracket holding the main steering box to angle outward (into the wheel 
well), a little, to move the box away from the engine.  This modification 
was used by the Land-Rover dealer in Willits, CA, Carbry Motors, which did 
quite a few V-8 transplants into Land-Rovers, years back(but the conversion 
pieces were made by someone in S.F., not by Scotty).

A conversion which I have strongly considered is the 4.0-liter V-6 used in 
the Ford Explorer, as it is a 60-degree vee, rather than the 90-degree vee 
of most V-6s and certainly has enough power and torque for a Land-Rover 88.  
It would fit in well, as it is quite compact.  Also, 60 degrees is the 
natural balance angle for a V-6 and so tends to be quite smooth.  My 
understanding is that that particular Ford V-6 is made in Germany.

I noticed in another one of yesterday's postings, from Greg Hiner in 
Australia, of other adapters available for the Land-Rover (available in the 
U.S. from Advance Adapters).  One of them purports to mate Ford C4 or C10 
automatic gearboxes to the Land-Rover transfer case.  I don't know if this 
would work for the Explorer V-6 or not, but intend to find out.  I feel that 
there would be two major advantages to the auto box (three counting my wife 
liking it better):  1)better crawling ability off-road (now favored by many 
off-road racers) and 2)less strain on the 
Land-Rover-not-made-to-take-all-that-extra-torque drivetrain.  In that 
latter vein, I feel that converting to full-time four-wheel drive would be 
better, too.  

In that connection, there may be a low-cost ($400+/-) add-on viscous 
coupling available from Mile Marker (who make Selectro Hubs) in Florida.  
Whether or not they have one which would work probably depends upon what 
engine is fitted and how much torque it has.  I also understand that such a 
conversion would require modification of the Land-Rover front axle to add CV 
joints in place of the u-joints.
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4]
[ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net              Phone: (707) 485-7220 ]
[ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway!  ]
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 12:36:29 -0700
From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Splitting LRO List

I am opposed to splitting the list.  I like it the way it is and feel that 
the new-to-Land-Rovers Discovery owners and such like will be more likely to 
become "of us" if they are welcomed into our fold, if we will be patient 
with their simple questions.  We can answer them and help these folks gain 
the aficion which has taken us all these years to acquire.  Is it so hard to 
share a little? This list is valuable (beyond measure) to us 
all-too-isolated-for-too-many-years Land-Rover old-timers, for sharing 
higher-level technical advice and experiences; imagine, then, how valuable 
our knowledge can be to the new-comers. The net gives us a lot; it's our 
responsibility to give back.  I think that that is what the Internet is all 
about.  Thanks.
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4]
[ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net              Phone: (707) 485-7220 ]
[ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway!  ]
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Subject: Starter Motor;Half Baked Ideas
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 22:26:06 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>

     Now that Dixon has a copy of the picture of my Land Rover 
stuck, I'll never live it down.  Anyway, getting stuck did have 
some consequences.  Like my clutch rusting to the flywheel.  The 
other problem that developed was the starter motor.  Sometimes it 
worked, sometimes it just gave a click and did nothing.  Finally 
it gaveup all together.
     So I crawled underneath and found that the stud that the hot 
lead is attached to was stripped.  Out came the starter motor.  
We found that the thread on that stud was 1/4 inch 26 threads per 
inch.  I have nut 1/4 24 and 1/4 28 but no 26.  (Neither did the 
local hardware stores.  So Dad and I rethreaded the stud for 1/4 
24.  We just ran the die on.  Then we got a piece of brass 
pipefitting.  We took off the threads with a metal lathe.  And 
tapped it for 1/4 24.  We figured that if we could make a nut 
that had 1cm of thread, it would have more threads than an 
ordinary nut and would be as likely to strip the newly (and 
poorly) rethreaded stud.  (We considered replacing the stud, but 
realized that it was a solder joint and it would be really 
annoying to resolder the thing on.
     So I popped the starter motor in and nothing happened.  Gee 
I fix one thing and miss the real problem.  Out comes the starter 
motor.  We check just about everything that we could, except the 
armature.  The bushings weren't great.  So we hooked it up to a 
battery with jumper cables.  (Really big sparks!)  The starter 
turned over jerkily and slowly.  Not fast enough to throw the 
bendix gear out.  Dad theorized that since the bushings we worn, 
maybe the motor was hitting some vibrational resonance that was 
doing this.
     So off we went on a quest for new bushing.  We found a shop 
that rebuilt starter motors.  While looking for a bushing, they 
took the armature and put it on a growler.  They pronounced the 
armature dead, and they didn't have one the right size.
     So Dad says, the starter motor was underwater for awhile.  
Maybe it's still wet.  Let's put it in the oven for awhile.  This 
seemed like a half baked idea to me.  We put it in the oven, on 
bake at 190 degrees F for an hour or so.  After it cooled I put 
it together.  And it works!?!  Don't ask me why, but baking the 
armature fixed it.  
     I still don't trust it (I'm carrying me crank at all times), 
but it seems to work.

-Benjamin Smith
 ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 22:44:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Heald <justfred@netcom.com>
Subject: Every journey is an adventure (fwd)

Thought I'd share this little adventure, on my return to LA from a sales 
trip to Denver.

So I got to airport security in Denver this afternoon, and realised 
I'd left my keys in my tool bag on Sunday morning when I went through 
security at LAX; but this afternoon in the confusion of tearing down the 
booth, I accidentally packed the bag in with my computer which Rick is 
driving back here (he'll be back on Monday).

No problem, I called the Rover shop and got directions on how to hot-wire 
the Rover - wire the battery to the coil charge lead.  (The 109 has a 
button starter.)  However, when I got to WallyPark and found some wire 
and stripped it and attached it, no start.  Okay, second line of attack - 
I removed the dashboard (easy enough) and fiddled around with the wires 
until I got the ignition to come on when I turned on the parking lights.  
Drove to a gas station (did I mention I ran out of gas on the way to the 
airport on Sunday?  In front of a gas station, and with a gas bottle, 
fortunately - I really ought to fix the gas gauge)  I noticed a few drips 
of oil on my floor.  As I drove off, it turned into a puddle of oil, then 
a stream, then a gusher, coming out from behind the (partially 
disassembled) dash.  I pulled over, and found I'd creased the oil line 
going to the oil pressure gauge - so it was spurting hot oil at pressure 
right out of the cable.  Tape didn't seem to do a thing, so I yanked the 
cable out into the engine compartment (careful not to leave it over the 
exhaust pipe).  Found in my bag the only tool you really need:

THE VICE GRIPS!

...and clamped them on the end of the cable.  After a few unsuccessful 
clamp/crimps I left the vicegrips on the cable, and the oil stopped!  I 
filled the oil back up (about 2 quarts were all over the dash, the floor, 
the seats, my pants, the road behind be), and made it home (about 1/2 an 
hour from Fairfax/10 to Pasadena on surface streets).

Moral of the story:
Always carry vice grips.

Conclusion:
If you lose your keys, old Land Rovers are great because you can hot wire 
the ignition switch, easily.  But they're bad because you might screw 
something up in that rat's nest behind the dash.  But they're good 
because you can get oil all over the passenger compartment and it doesn't 
screw things up too much (I like to think of it as adding character).  
But they're bad because in a new car things wouldn't break.  But they're 
good because in a new car if things break you wouldn't be able to 
field-repair them...
Nyah.  The conclusion is, don't lose your keys.

Fred Heald                                      justfred@netcom.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions and ideas expressed here represent those of everyone 
involved, including but not limited to myself, my boss, family, friends, 
enemies, casual acquaintences, and of course the reader.

"...when a far out message makes itself hackneyed, somehow it seems to 
become a clever ironic commentary of the condition of man."
                                                    -Jay 'Spunky' Fisher
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Why to Land Rover stuff Plastered all over the office!
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 16:43:18 EST

Hi all,
        Just found a reason to have Land Rover stuff plastered all over
the office!  I had to call DEC to make a support call for a PC, turns 
out that the engineer has had two Land Rovers!  And I would never had
known if I didn't have stuff plastered all over the office and on the PC
(Thanks to Jeff Berg)

Thought that I would tell you all!

--
==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                            1955 Series 1 86"
LROC of Victoria Australia                              2.25 diesel (Nearly!)
email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                    (Currently on Digest Mode)

------------------------------

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	Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved. 

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