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1 William Caloccia [calocc37[not specified]
2 Mike Rooth [M.J.Rooth@lu19Re: leather vs cloth
3 llevitt@idcresearch.com 19Re: No subject given
4 llevitt@idcresearch.com 41Re[2]: Leather seats vs. cloth...
5 CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR 20Seats, etc.
6 David John Place [umplac24Re: baby generators
7 David John Place [umplac19Re: Leather seats vs. cloth...
8 Harry Greenspun [hgreens15BMW influence
9 brabyn@skivs.ski.org (Jo11Re: Leather seats vs. cloth...
10 brabyn@skivs.ski.org (Jo15Re: BMW influence
11 WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbi15leather vs. cloth


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Subject: Re: leather vs cloth
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 05:01:02 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

Mike Dryfoos <mikedr@microsoft.com> writes:
	(Mike please post directly to the list at lro@team.net)
    I have leather seats in my Range Rover, and previously had cloth seats 
    in my Toyota, and I prefer the leather.  It is much easier to clean 
    than cloth and more comfortable generally.  I haven't found it 
    excessively sticky.  It is colder than cloth on a cold day, until your 
    body heat warms it up.  I don't have long enough experience to comment 
    on durability.
    ----------

| Anyone out there have any opinions on which is better, (leather seats or
| cloth)? ... owned leather, is it hot and "sticky"? How's the durability
| over long times, (10-20 years)? How well does it wear with heavy use?

| I live in Phoenix Arizona (USA) where it gets from around 17-122 degrees
| Fahrenheit (-8 to 50 Celsius). ("Yeah, but it's a dry heat!!")

| Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks,

I've had leather seats in my XR4Ti (it was 6 years old when I got it), and
they need to be taken care of, especially in climates where it gets hot, as
the leather will dry out and shrink and get harder, at which point, if you're
lucky, the seams give out instead of the leather ripping.  Maybe you've got
a garage, and maybe you'll always park in the shade of a giant cactus, and 
you'll faithfully clean it with saddle soap and Lexol, and put up with the
annoyance of it being slightly oily for a while afterward.

The leather itself holds some heat, so maybe you'd better keep a towel 'bout
for those hot days when you're wearing shorts. I can't recall finding it to
be 'sticky' in the way that vinyl is 'sticky', and I'd certainly would get it
again.   

   -- Bill

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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: leather vs cloth
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 11:59:23 BST

Leather,every time.*Much* more comfortable IMO,shrugs off dirt better
than cloth,too.I've had a good many cars in the past with leather

upholstery,and I never had to do a thing except sit on it!Mind you,
Texas this isnt,although I suspect Bill C's interceding with the
weather has produced us a nice heat wave(well done Bill!).
I wouldnt use saddle soap on it,though.I dont even use it on the
saddle.The product I use is Connolly Hide Food.Keeps the leather
nice and supple,but isnt tacky like saddle soap.I have a colleague
who treats the seats in his Lotus with it about once a year,and the
seats are like new.So is the saddle:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: llevitt@idcresearch.com
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 07:16:19 EST
Subject: Re: No subject given

     
Russell writes:

> she wants to take Nigel next time (haven't figured out just
> how I'll get Nige into a 16' canoe, though).
     
Uh, Russell, take a look at the Camel Trophy clips. Seems the key to floating a 
Land Rover is *real* *big* pontoons, a tiny motor and no current...<vbg>

Lee

"If it's got wheels I'll ride it"
     

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From: llevitt@idcresearch.com
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 07:16:06 EST
Subject: Re[2]: Leather seats vs. cloth...

     
In message <199407141603.MAA08889@transfer.stratus.com>  writes:
> FROM:  David Brown                          Internet: debrown@srp.gov 
>        Computer Graphics Specialist
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> I live in Phoenix Arizona (USA) where it gets from around 17-122 degrees 
> Fahrenheit (-8 to 50 Celsius). ("Yeah, but it's a dry heat!!")
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks,
     
I'm with TeriAnn regarding leather, I think...I'm also 
considering the Discovery and have found, with limited seat time, 
that the leather seats appear to fit slightly differently than 
the cloth. If I remember the leather seats also come with a 
leather wrapped steering wheel..

Personally I think that LR missed the boat on the seating on this 
vehicle. Overall its excellent, but it lacks lumbar and heating 
elements (not a big issue in Phoenix...)

My solution is sheepskin seat covers -- warm in winter, cool in 
summer. I have a set on my 1988 Volvo, which uses Connolly hides 
just like the British cars, and the front seats, when I take the 
covers off to apply CB Hidefood, look brand new. The rear seats, 
which get light wear, are also in great shape.

Overall leather stands up better to stains and abuse than cloth. 
Smells better too...I doubt you'll be taking the Disco into mud 
upto your gunwalls (I could be wrong, happened before) so getting 
creek water sloshed on the upholstery may not be an issue.

Leather...

Lee Levitt
llevitt@idcresearch.com
If it's got wheels I'll ride it...

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Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 09:41:07 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
Subject: Seats, etc.

With regard to the thread on leather vs cloth seats (I couldn't resist that
pun!) here's a tip from Chris "the Badger" Laws of Badger Coachworks on
seat care.  The vinyl is kept in best condition with WD-40!  Forget the
Armor-All stuff...it looks good for a while but it makes the fabric
brittle.  It also attacks the stitching.  Think about it - vinyl is
essentially processed petroleum (with the molecules rearranged and all) and
what better to keep it looking good than another petroleum product?

    *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
    |                                                      |
    |  Sandy Grice,  Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
    |  E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com       FAX: 804-622-7056 |
    |  Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days)  804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
    |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA   |
    *------------------------------------------------------*

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Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 10:11:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: baby generators

Re generators and sub zero temps.  Does -40 rate as cold enough.  I was
talking to my friend a retired communications officer from the high Arctic
(Resolute Bay) and they had no problems starting brigs and Stratton type
engines but only if you use senthetic oil.  It cost about $7.00 per quart
up here, but it is the only thing to start a small engine on a gold day. 
The other thing we do is carry a spray bottle of starting fluid.  You give
a shot into the air breather and they pull away.  Don't put too much in
however or you will blow the heads off.  It works real well in the Rover. 
In my climate I don't go anywhere with out starting spray, battery jumper
cables and the special oil.  By the way a battery blanket is probably more
important than the block heater but of course we use both up here in
winter.  I noticed that my diesel has a calrod element from a water heater
brazed into the oil pan.  Not a bad idea, but I think I mentioned two days
ago that the Volkswagon pan heater from a "Bug" is the best way to go.  In
Winnipeg lots of people use recirculating hot water heaters and they swear
by them.  They also heat the interior since the warm fluid circulates
through the heater core as well as the block.  Have a "cool" day Dave
VE4PN in sunny Manitoba.  At least at this time of the year it is about
75-80 (your numberss) in the day and like you I have a canvas top.  Dave VE4PN

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Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 10:25:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Leather seats vs. cloth...

Hi Deb.  I live in a climate where it goes from -40 to +40, and if I was
ordering new I would use cloth but only if I bought a vehicle that I
didn,t intend to take the top of.  In hot weather you get a better cooling
with the cloth and perhaps a bead seat pad, but in Winnipeg or Selkirk
where I live, the dew is heavy in the morning because of the large heat
difference and the cloth just gets too wet to use.  The leather on the
other hand can be wiped off with a cloth and you are able to drive away. 
My 64 has the black leather seats (deluxe type as they seem to be called)
and they have lasted very well.  The only problem I have noticed is that
the seams rot after 15 years or so from being wet.  They are colder in
winter, but with a parka on that isn't a real problem.  Lastly, cloth in a
real off road machine seems a bit like putting lace curtains up for me but
perhaps the resale will be better.  Whatever you decide, I know you will
enjoy your new vehicle. Cheers Dave VE4PN

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Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 14:30:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Harry Greenspun <hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: BMW influence

    I'm still waiting on my Discovery, which gives me lots of time to 
ruminate over serious questions...

    What's the likelihood that the Buick engine will be replaced by a BMW 
in the near future?  Is this a reasonable concern with profound 
implications for parts, sercice, reliability, etc., or am I just going 
nuts from anticipation?

Still waiting,
Harry

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Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 11:34:19 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re: Leather seats vs. cloth...

To put in my 2 cents worth -- I like them both -- but I think leather
wears better than cloth and is better from the dirt standpoint. My
89 RR has leather and so far it still looks brand new inspite
of many trips with children and extensive desert use.

John Brabyn

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Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 11:44:52 PDT
From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn)
Subject: Re:  BMW influence

No ida! But there are now so many 3.9's around that I don't think you
need to worry about parts etc. for a very long tim 

I hear the new RR due this fall has a 4.5 liter 32 valve engine but I
don't know if it's derived from the old one or not. It most likely
is, since JE engineering who developed the 3.9 and 4.2 now make a 4.5
based on the se old Buick mill.

John Brabyn
89RR

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From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 17:18:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: leather vs. cloth

I got one of the first 5 speed Discoverys--base model with cloth.  Initially I 
Was disappointed not to get leather but the cloth has grown on me with time.
For one thing, it suits the interior atmosphere of this car (which was designed
in Europe as a "sporty lifestyle vehicle" interior by Conran design) which 
never had leather available as an option until it had been out for 4 years in
Europe.  It was designed with cloth in mind and, especially with the rubber
floor mats, looks rugged, sporty, and quite stylish.  Leather is for the 
country club and you really can live without it (this being my first car with
out), plus in the summer it's much more comfortable since it's cooler.

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