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From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Howzit to all Landie Owners?!
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 13:55:20 +0000 (BST)

> of a '59 Rover 100.   The latter has a higher ratio: initial pull off
> is slower but open road top end is more relaxed and petrol consumption
> is improved.

Err...surely this means that you are now unable to use four-wheel drive, since 
the two differential ratios are now ...err...different(!) which means 
appalling transmission wind-up, broken shafts etc, etc?

Marcus.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 09:49:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Re: Leaking Rochester

Well I was thinking of using the componets from a GM 2.5 'X" car engine
'cause they is *cheeep* .....the actual adaptation would be to mount the
throttle body on the manifold and to find a  good location for the water
temp. sensor....I also think the 2.2 set-up from the cavalier ete. would
work well but you might have to *buy* this stuff as it is newer....
I looked at the 2.2 and 2.5 chrysler(nee bosch) system,but,as much as I
love the german stuff,it appears wildly too messy for my tastes..
the other factors involved would be mounting and plumbing a fuel
pump,along with the high pressure feed and low pressure return lines,
and the adapting of the air cleaner to the Landie...                 
all of which,after the housing to engine interface is worked out,is within
the abilities of most LR owners,methinks......
Personally,*I'd* use the bosch EFI-D system,but mounting the injectors is
the problem(on a"shade tree" scale)    
For those that do not know, the throttle body fuel injection system is
really nothing more than a high pressure carb.....it tends to look and
"bolt on" like a carb,but offers *much* better fuel economy and some power
gain....picture a housing with a throttle,and a spray nozzle mounted over
it."Presto!" TBFI!
another*BIG* advantage is that it will work perfectly in any position so
that the offroad shaking and bouncing will not effect the fuel milage and
performance....no vapor-lock too!
FYI...the vw distributors work in the 2.25 landie..but the rotation is
backwards....mechanical"retard" not advance!....still might get ya' home some
night!

steve.....

HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP"

Steven M. Denis <denis@oswego.oswego.edu>
PO BOX 61
Erieville,NY 13061

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 08:54:01 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: More LR prices from NZ

Stop it! You're making us crazy.

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Problems?
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 12:10:38 EDT

> Land-Rover-Owner List &  Land Rover Owner Daily Digest List
>   Contents:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> ------------------------------
>   END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
ah, was this *supposed* to happen?  This was all that came
through (and perhaps this was all that was posted during that
particular "digest window").

just lettin' you know, (all the others seem ok)
rd

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jun 94 12:25:53 EDT
From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: RE: Galvanized frame

Has anybody here replaced their old frame with one of the new galvanized
ones (frame over)?

I am considering having it done to my Series III 88.  I have a couple of
questions.

1.  Did you do it yourself or did you have it done.  If you had it done
not counting parts what was the approximate cost.  If you did it yourself
how long did it take and what if any special tools were required.

2.  How well does the galvanized frame stand up to rust?  It snows where
I live (just south of Cincinnati OH) and they salt the roads heavily.

3.  Any general advise about frame overs in general would be appreciated.

As the rover has been living in snow country for only three years the 
original frame is just starting to rust.  Any suggestions concerning how
to prevent or slow down rust on the current frame while I save up for
a possible frame over?

Keith Steele 75126,1123@compuserve.com
72 Series III 88 since new

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 11:44:29 -0500
From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)
Subject: Alternative Parts

I sent out a note awhile back hoping to whip up some excitement about
composing the alternative parts list for the Land Rover - in other words
what in your experience will work temp/permanently on a Land Rover in case
of an emergency or practicality.

I have collected a few things over the last month and they are as follows:

FYI...the vw distributors work in the 2.25 landie..but the rotation is
backwards....mechanical"retard" not advance!....still might get ya' home some
night! Steven M Denis  <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> (Does this really work???)

Indeed. Case in point: Hub oil seals. Use National/Federal Mogul #410694
American-made, *double lipped* (so's not to ride on the distance piece along the
same path as the single-lipped OEM's or "GP's"), with sealing compound already
applied to the outside face. About $6 at any bearing shop. While we're mucking
about the hubs, lock tab washers: International Harvester #860291R1 have a
little "foot" to ride in the groove on the hub. <p>Sandy Grice, Rover Owners'
Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056
|<p>

David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA> said that a 1970 something brake
master cylinder from AMC bolted up to the Land Rover and worked fine.
(more info please)

Bearings - readily available - just take the old one with you.

Shocks -  U.S. replacements are Gabriel Gas Ryder Ltd Shocks for your machine.
The numbers are G63494 and G63299.  The longer ones go on the back.  David John
Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>

Fan belt????

And????More????? engines - diffs (across the Rover line) -

If you have anything further to add please let me know - I will put all the
additions together and then post to the net (and also archive it).

What do you say???

Best-
Greg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 10:37:27 +0800
From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: Alternative Parts

Transmission oil seals;

These are National Oil Seal/Federal Mogul numbers

              Atlantic Britsh cat. number

CR16254           13   output shaft
CR19359           12   trans to transfer case
CR6143           573   speedo drive plate

Wheel hub seal;

410694           330   

U-joints AEC Brand

AEC 521 HD       286    U-joint 2 15/16" across (late) 
AEC 504         3092    U-joint 2 7/32"  across (early) 
     

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 15:05:33 EDT
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: RE: Galvanized frame

>Has anybody here replaced their old frame with one of the new galvanized
>ones (frame over)?

yes

>I am considering having it done to my Series III 88.  I have a couple of
>questions.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>not counting parts what was the approximate cost.  If you did it yourself
>how long did it take and what if any special tools were required.

i did it myself. it was in the "shop" for about 2 months (i worked only at
night/weekends) but i also did all the paint, and basically tastified the
whole rover. special tools? i dunno. air tool swere helpful. the galvanised
frame can also make things a tight squeeze, since the galvanisation is done
to a "normal sized" frame (getting the springs between the hangers, getting
some of the bolts through parts of the frame, etc)

>2.  How well does the galvanized frame stand up to rust?  It snows where
>I live (just south of Cincinnati OH) and they salt the roads heavily.
>3.  Any general advise about frame overs in general would be appreciated.
>not counting parts what was the approximate cost.  If you did it yourself

make sure you use fine thread hardware (you need approximately 250 1/4"-28
3/4" long bolts (i used stainless) and a few dozen others to go through the
whole thing right)

>As the rover has been living in snow country for only three years the
>original frame is just starting to rust.  Any suggestions concerning how
>to prevent or slow down rust on the current frame while I save up for
>a possible frame over?

if the originaly frame is just starting to rust, i wouldn't necessarily
replace it. oil the inside of the frame... make sure the drain plugs on the
bottom of the frame are not plugged... there are also some electronic
thingies which help avert the battery-like reaction which causes corrosion
(not familiar with these)

>Keith Steele 75126,1123@compuserve.com
>72 Series III 88 since new

------------------------------

From: llevitt@idcresearch.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 15:47:25 EST
Subject: Re[2]: More LR prices from NZ

> Stop it! You're making us crazy.

Makes me want to cry!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 16:35:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Galvanized frame

Jory writes;
if the originaly frame is just starting to rust, i wouldn't necessarily
replace it. oil the inside of the frame... make sure the drain plugs on the
bottom of the frame are not plugged... there are also some electronic
thingies which help avert the battery-like reaction which causes corrosion
(not familiar with these)

I had a thought about the frames rusting from the inside out.
Has anyone ever considered or tried urethane expandable foam to
completely fill the inside of the frame and sealing out any water. I
think this stuff absorbs moisture as it cures which would probably get
most of what is in there. 
I don't know how it might work in this application, but I have used it
in other situations and the stuff is amazing.
I think I will try an experiment over this winter. I'll get a piece of
box channel, fill it with this stuff and put it at the side of the road
until next year. Just so it could get the full treatment of salt and
weather. Maybe even find some old channel that's already rusted and see
what happens there.
I would like to be pretty sure what was going to happen before I ever
did this, cause once it's in there it ain't coming out.
Any body had any experience on this.
Thanks
Jon 

------------------------------

Subject: stubborn spring bolt...
From: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Michele Bertrand)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 23:47:34 -0400

Well, hello everyone, I have a technical problem. I was working on my 109 
SW ex-NADA, (Rudolph's cousin) doing a complete rebuild today (frame was 
done last year) starting by the rear springs. I haved removed one without 
any difficulty and was stopped in the process of removing the other one 
by a stubborn bolt (the last one remaining, of course). It's the bolt 
that holds the front of the rear spring to the chassis. I have removed 
the nut on the inner side, but can't even turn the bolt itself. I tried 
heating it, an impact driver, hammer and punch, jacking up the spring to 
relieve pressure. Nothing. Rien pantoute. (french expression). It looks, 
by the feel of the bolt when I try to move it with a ratchet that it's 
seized to the inner casing of the bushing. (The ratchet springs back, 
after trying to turn the bolt a little. 

Any ideas, suggestions, anybody....please...Thanks in advance, I'll keep 
in touch with you guys for the rest of the rebuild....

                Michel Bertrand, Ottawa...

--
Michele Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 20:10:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: RE: Galvanized frame

Re frame rust.  I live in Canada and in central Canada to bbot where it
snows and it snows.  Temperatures get to -40 F.  The first thing we find
out here is don't put your vehicle in a heated space in the winter.  You
will rot your frame jig quick.  I am driving a 1964 with like new frame
because I always wash it with the power washer and if you are able get
some LPS or WD40 inside the frame through the holes.  The frames rust from
the inside out in most cases.  There are some areas you have to watch very
closely to keep the frame good.  The worst spot from my experience is the
bracket holding the under seat gas tanks on the 88.  Not only snow and mut
build up but stones get in there and rub through the tanks.  If you keet
this area and the area of the main rear cross member clean and oiled you
will have no problems.  One other thing I always do to any used Land Rover
I buy, is paint the frame everywhere I can reach with black enamel.  I use
the best paint I can get, like Rustoleum or similar.  I first power wash
the frame at the car wash and then I use a wire wheel or sand paper and in
some cases for heavy dirt a paint scraper.  Be very careful around the gas
tank because wire wheels give off sparks and you know the result!  I have
only just touched up a spot or two with welds in any of my 8 Land Rovers
which have been taken care of this way.  By the way, you really don't have
to change the frame unless it is a basket case.  You can buy sections as
large as 1/3 the vehicle and weld them on.  It does however take some work
to be sure the frame is perfectly aligned but my buddy has done a number
for club members, and they have been very successful.  One thing he says
is don't put the side riggers on over the old frame.  Cut out a space in
the exizting frame and weld it in.  If you don't, rust builds up between
the two layers and rusts out jig quick.  The fellow in our club who does
this kind of work gets vehicles shipped in from all over the US and
Canada, but mostly he does very old and expensive sports cars.  He just
completed a complete ground up rebuild with a Land Rover in a box as it
were from Merseyside and it runs and looks like new.  Cheers Dave VE4PN 
Just a thought, has anyone tried sacrificial anodes like you use on boat
engines to slow down the rust.
Dave

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 20:23:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Alternative Parts

Re more American parts.  The windshield wiper motors used on most boats (
can get the name of mine if you want it) work great for the rear wiper set
up on the stationwagon.  I sent some pictures to Dixon Kenner and he can
tell you how great they look.  The have self parking wiper arms as well
and the wiper blades are available at any boat shop.  The are great
replacements for the from individual motors and 1/8 the price of Land
Rover and these actually work unlike the Land Rover ones.  The brake
cylenders I mentioned are from 72 Hornet, 68 Ambassador or 66 Classics. 
The work very well on the power assisted brake units in the Land Rover. 
They have the advantage of being dual system so you can mix or put fron or
rear on one system etc.  The best alternator repalacement is the Delcotron
which has a built in regulator so you don't have to worry about the
condition of the old Land Rover one.  They are readily available at any
junk yard in the US.  Parts to make soft tops are always available at boat
top places.  The nylon slides, clamps etc fit regular conduit.  To make
the front attachment for the windshield, go to a trailer shop and order a
piece of aluminum canopy track.  It is the kind roap slides into on the
side of a trailer.  It is better than the original because it is not only
waterproof, but winds wont get under it when you are on the highway.  I am
still checking on the exact name and number for the great weather seal I
found for the doors.  It is much better than Land Rover and does not
require the rivets.  It comes pre glued and it sticks like your own skin!
Hope this helps, I will get the rest of our list together.  Cheers Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 20:36:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: RE: Galvanized frame

The battery like reaction is Galvanic and it can be stopped by using the
sacrificial anodes I mentioned.  There are also some sophisticated
electronic circuits which can stop Eddy Currents and Galvanic action in
metals.  I wonder if anyone else has heard that the British found that +
earth vehicles don't rust as fast and that is why they started to build
behicles this way.  I am a Ham Radio type and I am sure I read this in one
of my QST mags some years ago.  Salt, a little current, and presto you
have a hole in your frame.  It might be worth looking into.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 20:42:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Galvanized frame

Re expandable foam.  Don't do it.  One of the guys tried it on another
part of the vehicle and he was sorry.  The stuff must by hydroscopic
because it got wet between the metal and the foam and it was a mess. 
Getting it off was terrible.  The old WD40 or better still LPS using a
garden sprayer or if you are really lucky usning your air compressor and
the spray wand with the hose pickup normally used for power washing is the
way to go.  Whoever said keep the drain holes clean really has the right
idea.  They are a good place to spray in ghe oil.  When Rob my rebuilder
does a frame over, he tilts the frame up and sprays in oil and leaves a a
few days till he sees it come out the other end and then he knows it is
done. Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 20:46:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: stubborn spring bolt...

Try dry ice.  It may shrink the metal and allow you to remove it.  Machine
shops sometime use the technique to shrink metal for resistance fit units,
it might just do the trick.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 

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