Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #193 - 35 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:04:03 -0500 (EST)

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Today's Topics:

   1. A place for electronicary. (Easton Trevor A)
   2. Keys & Pontifications ( was Re: Starter button vs key) (KURT W. KRAUSS)
   3. Re: '97 D90 FS in Utah (Rob MacCormick)
   4. Re: '97 D90 FS in Utah (Alan J. Richer)
   5. Re: '97 D90 FS in Utah (John Cranfield)
   6. Re: '97 D90 FS in Utah (John Cranfield)
   7. Re: '97 D90 FS in Utah (Rob MacCormick)
   8. Re: Feedback on British Northwest in Olympia WA (RON WARD)
   9. Disco clock (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
  10. Clutch MC overhaul (Paul Quin)
  11. Clutch (Sergi, Michael)
  12. Re: Clutch MC overhaul (Alan J. Richer)
  13. Re: Keys (RON WARD)
  14. Re: KODIAK HEATERS (RON WARD)
  15. Re: Disco Clock (RON WARD)
  16. HEATERS ([email-masked])
  17. Re:Assembly line (was keys) (Faure, Marin)
  18. Re: What's new (Faure, Marin)
  19. Re: What's new (Faure, Marin)
  20. Re:  Feedback on British Northwest in Olympia WA (Faure, Marin)
  21. Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....) (Faure, Marin)
  22. Re: Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....) (Rich Williams)
  23. Re: Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....) (Jim Laurel)
  24. Re: Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....) (Rich Williams)
  25. Re: Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....) (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  26. Re: HEATERS (David Scheidt)
  27. Re: Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....) (Hope Peter)
  28. IIB brake servo unit (Monika & Steve Rochna)
  29. Re: What's new (Paul)
  30. SV: [lro] Re: Brake upgrades (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fredrik_Hedstr=F6m?=)
  31. Re: Re: Ho Hum, just another lousy day in the air. (Peter Ogilvie)
  32. LR calendars (Jim Hall)
  33. Re: Clutch MC overhaul ([email-masked])
  34. Re: Clutch ([email-masked])
  35. Re: Clutch MC overhaul (Paul Quin)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>, "Domenic Checchia
  [[email-masked]] (E-mail)"
  <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:06:16 -0500
Subject: [lro] A place for electronicary.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Took the Freebie out this weekend for the TARC Christmas Tree Run and
explored some back roads. Nothing too serious but snow covered and icy.
Favourably impressed with the performance. As "conventional" Disco's, 90s
and 110's slipped and struggled the Freebie just drove on through. Descents
were a breeze with HDC. Never a moment when I felt at all unsure. Well, just
one, when we were stopped on an upslope and a 110 with wheels turning
forward was sliding down towards us. Found reverse real quick. The only
problem I can foresee is the drivers loss of necessary skills for the time
that systems fail. I even tried flooring the gas on an icy slope and ETC
took over to prevent excessive wheel spin. 

Altogether too easy and comfortable. I can't wait to get back to reality and
drive Miss G  :-)

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:33:58 -0500
From: "KURT W. KRAUSS" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Keys & Pontifications ( was Re: Starter button vs key)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

They say "Union."

That's interesting.  Do yours have a Land Rover logo on them or do they
say "Union" on them or something else?

>Like Marin, I own a '73 NAS SIII with about 18,000 original miles.  The

>ignition key and door keys are so similar in appearance and size that I

>added a rubber boot around the head of ignition key.

Kurt Krauss
1973 NAS SIII
2000 Discovery II

--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:48:54 -0500
From: Rob MacCormick <[email-masked]>
Organization: Boston College
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] '97 D90 FS in Utah
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Now you've got me scratching my chin......

Is "female driven" supposed to offer something about the condition of this
automobile?

Rob MacCormick
Curious as I hope to soon to be perusing used car ads and want to be familiar
with the lingo.....

Andre Shoumatoff wrote:

> Just to pass it along: a friend of mine is selling her '97 D-90.  37,000
> original miles, dark green, soft top, auto gear box.  Immacualte condition,
> never off-roaded, no dings, scatches, spills, stains, female driven.  Asking
> $41,000.  Deliverable in lower 48 with modest fees.  Contact me
> and I'll forward to her.  TIA!!!
>
> Andre
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 05:52:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] '97 D90 FS in Utah
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- Rob MacCormick <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Now you've got me scratching my chin......
> 
> Is "female driven" supposed to offer something about
> the condition of this
> automobile?
> 

Yup - it means it will take you 6 months to get the
stink of potpourri out of the interior....8*)

    aj"I have personal experience with this..."r

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:02:18 -0400
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] '97 D90 FS in Utah
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Andre Shoumatoff wrote:
  Immacualte condition,
> never off-roaded, no dings, scatches, spills, stains, female driven.  
> 

I hope this doesn't indicate it is like my sisters vehicles. Spotless on
the out side but never had the hood opened for the mechanicals
maintenance. :)
John and Muddy

--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:06:59 -0400
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] '97 D90 FS in Utah
Reply-To: [email-masked]

"Alan J. Richer" wrote:
>
> >
> 
> Yup - it means it will take you 6 months to get the
> stink of potpourri out of the interior....8*)
> 
>     aj"I have personal experience with this..."r

Yeah. What is it with this stuff? Certain persons of the female
persuasion have this stink everywhere and tolerate no complaints but a
guy only has to fart once........
John and Muddy

--__--__--

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:23:50 -0500
From: Rob MacCormick <[email-masked]>
Organization: Boston College
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] '97 D90 FS in Utah
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Eeesh....Reminds me of when I got home from work once last year....A
baby sitter (happened to be female)  had put a bunch of "nice smelling
stuff" into the cast iron water pot on top of our woodstove......Blech!
Reminded me of a mall....almost reflexively shared stomach contents.
Rob M

"Alan J. Richer" wrote:

> --- Rob MacCormick <[email-masked]> wrote:
> >
> > Now you've got me scratching my chin......
> >
> > Is "female driven" supposed to offer something about
> > the condition of this
> > automobile?
> >
>
> Yup - it means it will take you 6 months to get the
> stink of potpourri out of the interior....8*)
>
>     aj"I have personal experience with this..."r
>
> =====
> Please ignore the following advertising.....
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:21:15 -0500
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Feedback on British Northwest in Olympia WA
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Jim,

I bought a IIa from Charles Kellogg back in 1998 and had her shipped across country.  Very nice truck mechanically speaking.  Rough paint, but I painted over it.  Front frame horn (I later learned) was damaged and repaired.  Other than that, Charles' description of the truck was accurate.  He's overpriced for certain, but I knew absolutely nothing about series trucks when I bought the thing so I wanted to go with a professional outfit rather than pick one out of the paper or internet.  If I buy another series truck, I'll know what to look for.

BNW did some rust repair in the front floor boards and bulkhead on my truck before I bought it.  First rate job, very, very nice use of sheet stainless.

Good luck.

Ron W.

P.S.  Jeff Bieler owns my IIa now, catch up with him to get his opinion of the truck he bought.

>>> [email-masked] 12/15/01 15:11 PM >>>

Can anyone provide feedback on the British Northwest Land Rover Company in
Olympia, WA?  I am thinking of having them do some corrosion work and
expedition preparation on my NAS 110.

Thanks!

--Jim Laurel
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:52:54 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Disco clock
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[email-masked] wrote:

>I have a 96 disco, does the clock light up or is there no way you can tell 
>time at night.

Probably the wrong board, but...

Yes, there is a little light.  LR part # BAU 5311L.  About $8 at you local
LR center.  The exact same bulb also fits Mercedes and is available from
them for a buck or two less.  No doubt the bulb itself could be sourced for
pennies from a Radio Shack or something like it, but the bulb's carrier is
what forces you to go 'original' parts.

You'll need two stiff plastic pieces (like old credit cards) to remove the
clock.  Slide these in top and bottom to release the catches that hold the
clock unit in place.

Cheers

	*-----"jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary"----*
	|                 A. P. "Sandy" Grice                  |
	|    The Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd    |
	|     1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
	*------ 1972 Series III 88"------ 1996 Discovery-------*

--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:39:37 -0800
From: Paul Quin <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Clutch MC overhaul
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Frustration is ordering some parts from a local supplier and asking to have
them put on a bus for overnight delivery, tearing the LR apart in
anticipation of their arrival, and not getting them...  No Rovering this
weekend.

I did manage to overhaul the clutch pedal tower.  Interesting that there is
actually a little oil reservoir built into the pivot trunion (right word?)
with its own little filler plug bold.  Nice brass bearing sleaves inside
too.  Worth adding a bit of oil if you find the time.

Paul in Victoria

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: "Sergi, Michael" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:53:35 -0500
Subject: [lro] Clutch
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The continuing rehabilitation of the Series, well continues.  I am almost
ready to drive the frame around the neighborhood.    The clutch is stuck
though.  The thing has not been driven for over a year.  I've tried to
unstick it by spinning the wheels in 4WD while on jack stands and stabing
the brakes real fast.  Any other ideas?

Mike

--__--__--

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:11:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Clutch MC overhaul
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> I did manage to overhaul the clutch pedal tower. 
> Interesting that there is
> actually a little oil reservoir built into the pivot
> trunion (right word?)
> with its own little filler plug bold.  Nice brass
> bearing sleaves inside
> too.  Worth adding a bit of oil if you find the
> time.

For those with oil guns I recommend refitting the
filler plug with a zerk fitting - makes oiling the
pedal a quick and simple process.

     ajr

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:19:39 -0500
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Re: Keys
Reply-To: [email-masked]

For what it's worth I used to own a NAS D110 and it had 3 keys.  Ignition, door (driver, passenger and rear) and center cubby (genuine factory lockable center console).  The door key was a little key, like a post office box key.  The ignition key was standard issue size (big black plastic thing) and the cubby lock box was in the middle of the two.

Ron W.

>>> [email-masked] 12/14/01 06:35PM >>>

To: [email-masked] 
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Keys & Pontifications ( was Re: Starter button vs
  key)
Reply-To: [email-masked] 

>My '67 has three keys, as Gerry described. Ignition, front door and rear
door.

Interesting.  I've not come across a three-key Land Rover before. Is it a 
Station Wagon?  My SIII is a Hardtop Deluxe, and as such it uses only 
two keys, one for the ignition and one for the three doors.  I wonder if, 
given the factory's tinkertoy manufacturing techniques back then, they
assembled 
some vehicles with rear doors that had been perhaps earmarked for some other

vehicle.  Even we (Boeing) are not above grabbing something like a
windshield 
wiper motor off a plane on the assembly line and shooting it out to Seatac 
airport to replace a bad motor on an airline's airplane at a gate.  That
means 
another motor has to be hunted up to put on the plane on the line. Not 
that the windshield wiper motors are different, but if Land Rover was doing 
that sort of thing with doors every now and then, I can see how vehicles 
could end up with three keys, one for the ignition, one for the side doors, 
and one for the rear door that had been "appropriated" from somewhere 
else in the plant at the last minute.

Until at least 1992 when I was told this by the Solihull plant manager,
Land Rover does not build vehicles on spec.  In other words, when you 
walk down the assembly lines, every vehicle you see has been ordered.
That's not to say that Land Rover dealers don't order vehicles on spec 
to be put on the lot in the hopes that someone will buy them.  But as 
far as the factory itself is concerned, every vehicle they build is an
ordered 
vehicle.  However, orders can change, and when they do, there can be a bunch

of scrambling around on the line to accommodate the change.  
Series Land Rovers (like Defenders) were built on one line.  
So the first vehicle might be an 88 pickup, 
the next one a 109 Station Wagon, the next one an 88 Hardtop, 
the next one an MOD 
high-capacity 109, and so on.  If 
an order was switched from a Hardtop to a Station Wagon, for instance,
everyone 
ran around to find the parts necessary to change the vehicle on the line.
So I 
can see under this sort of "organization" how a partially assembled vehicle 
could suddenly acquire a Station Wagon rear door where a two-piece tailgate
had 
been the original plan.

Speculation, of course, but certainly possible.  Based on what I've observed

on the Land Rover line in the past, and the guys I've talked to that worked
on 
the Series line, it's amazing to me that every lock on the vehicle didn't
come 
with its own individual key, or that the keys that came with the vehicle 
matched the locks at all. For a long time, door locks were considered 
a luxury option on the Land Rover line, and many of the earlier vehicles 
were delivered without any locks at all, only latches.  Utility vehicle 
thievery was not much of a problem back in the '40s and '50s, as 
4wds were looked on as "farm" vehicles and were the last thing 
anyone would want to steal, let alone be seen driving around in.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
Seattle
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked] 
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:24:29 -0500
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] KODIAK HEATERS
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Not sure when the different models of Kodiaks came out so you may be right on that.  I looked at the way the heater core was configured once and boy did it look original!

Ron

>>> [email-masked] 12/14/01 07:20PM >>>

Ron, I didn't mean you added it.  It's obviously been there a while.  I
think the original owner may have had it updated.  I don't think the MkIV
was out when it was made in '64.

As for the windshield vents, they both work, but most of the air takes the
path of least resistance to the passenger side before it makes it's way to
the drivers side.  I'm pretty sure they are all like that.

Jeff

on 12/14/01 6:09 AM, RON WARD at [email-masked] wrote:

> 
> Jeff,
> 
> I believe that Kodiak is original to that truck.  Check the hose running to
> the drivers side for an obstruction.
> 
> Ron
> 
>>>> [email-masked] 12/13/01 12:51PM >>>
> 
> I have a MkIV Kodiak in my '65 88" IIA rag top.  I assume it's a retrofit by
> a previous PO as I don't think the MkIV was out in '65.
> 
> Anyway, I haven't been in temps below 30oF so far.  I generally run the
> heater without the fan.  Air forced in via the front vent over the core is
> hot enough to heat the cabin up right quick.  I fan is too much after a
> short time. 
> 
> The only thing I haven't been able to get it to do is to defrost the drivers
> (LHD) windshield quickly, though it will do the passenger side fast enough.
> I might try to create a control to divert all the air into the drivers side
> vent.
> 
> Jeff  
> 
>> Bruce Wachal wrote:
>> 
>>> Does anyone out there know anything about kodiak heaters?
>>> I've never seen one. Where do they mount,how do they work,what so they
>>> look like,are they effective in extreme weather?
>>> Does anyone know a good place to get one?
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Epsilon.
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked] 
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro 
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked] 
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro 
_______________________________________________
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[email-masked] 
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--__--__--

Message: 15
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:32:16 -0500
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Disco Clock
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Your light bulb is out.  

>>> [email-masked] 12/16/01 03:19PM >>>

I have a 96 disco, does the clock light up or is there no way you can tell 
time at night.

Thanks 
Dave Walls
65 IIA 88
96 disco se7
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked] 
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 16
From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:09:02 EST
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] HEATERS
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Here's a link to the heater I put in my 109. 
Cheap and easy compared to what's out there and it's seasonal.

http://www.geocities.com/glrainfo/heater1.html

Scott

--__--__--

Message: 17
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:23:05 -0800
Subject: [lro] Re:Assembly line (was keys)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

To: [email-masked]
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Keys
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>It sounds as if the LR factoy is barely-controlled chaos. Or perhaps just 
chaos.

It's not been my observation that it's chaos, but the Defender, like the 
Series before it, is a very labor-intensive vehicle to put together, which 
I'm sure is one reason Land Rover is looking to upgrade/change it 
to a more "modern" design.  As of the early 90s, Land Rover 
does not make any components of the Defender.  They're all 
made by subcontractors, mostly in the greater Birmingham 
area, and are simply assembled at the factory.  Because of the 
tinkertoy assembly, it's not uncommon to see people wheeling 
sets of body and door panels to and from the paint shops and 
to various places on the line.  They look for all the world like 
something out of a Revell kit, as they are hanging from 
racks that make it look like all the panels are on a sprue.  

The 
extreme exchangeability of all the parts and the fact that they 
are constantly being wheeled up and down the line is what 
leads me to conjecture that doors intended for one vehicle could 
end up on another one.  It's an assembly line, no question, but the 
"custom" nature of each vehicle on the line, and the total mix 
of models on the line would seem to make it very possible 
that if a shipment of doors from the supplier was late, or 
if there was a problem in the paint shop, the doors for 
another vehicle of similar color could be substituted to 
complete the vehicle in question.  Otherwise, you have to 
stop the line.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 18
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:32:47 -0800
Subject: [lro] Re: What's new
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: What's new
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 03:39:07 +0000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Marin, are you trying to say not every commercial airline pilot could have 
landed that Air Transat 'glider' in the Azores?  ;-)

I don't know much about how that accident occurred, other than 
the pilots didn't notice their total fuel quantity was dropping.  The 
plane developed a fuel leak, but instead of gradually going out of 
trim to the point where it was noticed, the automatic fuel distribution 
system on that type of plane simply pumped fuel around on its own 
to maintain airplane trim.  Why the crew didn't see they were losing 
fuel I don't know, other than the fact that the worst situation monitors 
in the world are human beings.  In the case of total fuel loss, however, 
there's not much you can do to "fix" that situation other than gliding 
the plane to as safe a landing as possible.

As for physically landing the plane, the new generation of jets are 
equipped with RATs (Ram Air Turbines) which are little 
propellers on a stick that pop out and provide sufficient electrical 
and/or hydraulic power to operate the plane's systems.  So other 
than the fact that they couldn't add power, the landing would have 
been normal.

The situations I was talking about are like the DC-10 that blew 
it's tail engine and severed all the hydraulic lines, hence all the 
control surfaces were inoperable.  Very few pilots could have 
managed that situation to a landing in which a surprisingly 
large number of passengers survived.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
telephone (425)393-7721
mobile (206)650-5622
fax: (425)393-7741
e-mail: [email-masked]

--__--__--

Message: 19
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:39:43 -0800
Subject: [lro] Re: What's new
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:06:16 EST
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: What's new
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

on 12/14/2001, Faure, Marin wrote:

>>While there are minimum requirements to be a pilot, it stands to reason
that
within the range of qualified airline pilots there are ones at the top of
the list
and ones at the bottom of the list

>In the back of my mind I always knew this of course but it does not fill me
with confidence when I'm just about to fly from Rome to Los Angeles and
back.

Actually, it's not so much the pilots you should spend your time worrying 
about.  It's the air traffic controllers and the pathetic (worldwide)
equipment 
they are relying on to do their jobs.

And remember, it doesn't matter how many engines are on your plane, 
the greatest chances of a problem are during and just after takeoff and 
during approach and landing.  The safest place in the world to be is 
in an ETOPS (Extended range, Twin engine OPerationsS) twin, 
like an ETOPS 777, 767, 757 etc. in cruise over the middle of an ocean.  
ETOPS planes receive the best maintenance in the world.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 20
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:44:33 -0800
Subject: [lro] Re:  Feedback on British Northwest in Olympia WA
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: "Jim Laurel" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:03:28 -0800
Subject: [lro] Feedback on British Northwest in Olympia WA
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Can anyone provide feedback on the British Northwest Land Rover Company in
Olympia, WA?  I am thinking of having them do some corrosion work and
expedition preparation on my NAS 110.

If this is the company with a building on a hill above highway 101 just west
of 
Olympia (it used to, and maybe still does have a Union Jack painted 
on the wall facing the highway), I have heard that they do very good 
work but are extremely, some have used the word "incredibly," 
expensive compared to getting the same parts or service elsewhere.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 21
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:53:40 -0800
Subject: [lro] Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In the Seattle area, there is a fellow named Gordon Perrot
(I think I've got that right) who works on all models of 
Land Rovers.  He's been recommended to me by 
Rovers North. I have not had him do any work 
yet, but I have talked to him on the phone about 
a few issues with our Range Rover, and he seems 
to know what he's talking about.  But I have no idea 
of his shop labor rates, quality of work, etc.  I 
don't seem to be able to find his phone number 
(his shop goes under a couple of letters for a name, 
like G and P or something), but I'm sure 
someone on this list can supply it.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 22
From: "Rich Williams" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:02:38 -0800
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Marin,

Gord'n can be reached at 206-361-1940.  His business (garage behind his
house) is called G&S Services.

Don't let the appearance of his garage sway you, let's just say that it's
not your most conventional outfit.

He's a great guy, knows what he's talking about and there's absolutely no BS
when doing business with him.

Gord'ns helping me with my 109 project and my hat's off to him for his
guidance, support and advice.

Rich Williams
Redmond

----- Original Message -----
From: Faure, Marin <[email-masked]>
To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:53 AM
Subject: [lro] Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....)

In the Seattle area, there is a fellow named Gordon Perrot
(I think I've got that right) who works on all models of
Land Rovers.  He's been recommended to me by
Rovers North. I have not had him do any work
yet, but I have talked to him on the phone about
a few issues with our Range Rover, and he seems
to know what he's talking about.  But I have no idea
of his shop labor rates, quality of work, etc.  I
don't seem to be able to find his phone number
(his shop goes under a couple of letters for a name,
like G and P or something), but I'm sure
someone on this list can supply it.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
Seattle
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 23
From: "Jim Laurel" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:14:20 -0800
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I just spoke with Gord'n this morning about having him do some work on the
110.  His number is: (206) 361-5766. He advised that his is leaving on
holiday for a few weeks and suggested we talk again in early Jan.  You might
try giving him a call then.

--Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:53 AM
Subject: [lro] Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....)

>
> In the Seattle area, there is a fellow named Gordon Perrot
> (I think I've got that right) who works on all models of
> Land Rovers.  He's been recommended to me by
> Rovers North. I have not had him do any work
> yet, but I have talked to him on the phone about
> a few issues with our Range Rover, and he seems
> to know what he's talking about.  But I have no idea
> of his shop labor rates, quality of work, etc.  I
> don't seem to be able to find his phone number
> (his shop goes under a couple of letters for a name,
> like G and P or something), but I'm sure
> someone on this list can supply it.
>
> _________________________________________
> C. Marin Faure
> (original owner)
> 1973 Land Rover Series III-88
> 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
> Seattle
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 24
From: "Rich Williams" <[email-masked]>
To: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:21:57 -0800
Reply-To: [email-masked]

ARGH!!!

I got two phone numbers transposed.

Gord'ns number (G&S Services) is 206-361-7002

That last 4 numbers of the phone number I posted a minute ago are from my
local British parts supplier.

Sorry about the goof up folks.

Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Williams <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [lro] Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....)

Marin,

Gord'n can be reached at 206-361-1940.  His business (garage behind his
house) is called G&S Services.

Don't let the appearance of his garage sway you, let's just say that it's
not your most conventional outfit.

He's a great guy, knows what he's talking about and there's absolutely no BS
when doing business with him.

Gord'ns helping me with my 109 project and my hat's off to him for his
guidance, support and advice.

Rich Williams
Redmond

----- Original Message -----
From: Faure, Marin <[email-masked]>
To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:53 AM
Subject: [lro] Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....)

In the Seattle area, there is a fellow named Gordon Perrot
(I think I've got that right) who works on all models of
Land Rovers.  He's been recommended to me by
Rovers North. I have not had him do any work
yet, but I have talked to him on the phone about
a few issues with our Range Rover, and he seems
to know what he's talking about.  But I have no idea
of his shop labor rates, quality of work, etc.  I
don't seem to be able to find his phone number
(his shop goes under a couple of letters for a name,
like G and P or something), but I'm sure
someone on this list can supply it.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
Seattle
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 25
Subject: Re: [lro] Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 01 11:37:56 -0800
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>In the Seattle area, there is a fellow named Gordon Perrot
>(I think I've got that right) who works on all models of 
>Land Rovers.<<SNIP>> I 
>don't seem to be able to find his phone number 
>(his shop goes under a couple of letters for a name, 
>like G and P or something), but I'm sure 
>someone on this list can supply it.

Gord'n Perrott

G&S Services
206-361-7002

I've known hom for over 10 years.  He has an excellent reputation and has 
spent a lot of personal time on activities for the Pacific NorthWest Land 
Rover CLub.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 26
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:41:22 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] HEATERS
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 [email-masked] wrote:

> 
> Here's a link to the heater I put in my 109. 
> Cheap and easy compared to what's out there and it's seasonal.
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/glrainfo/heater1.html

I put a very similiar (if not identical, mine was sourced lcoally, not from
JC whitney) heater in the 88 I used to own.  I mounted it on the passanger
side foot well, routing the heater pipes through blanking plates for the
brake and clutch pedals, which happened to match the spacing on the heater
exactly.  bit of a bodge, but it was certainly a wonderful heater.  Low
speed was more than enough to keep the truck warm, even in -30 F weather.
I left the little smiths shin burner in place so I could use it as a
defogger.

David

--__--__--

Message: 27
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Seattle Land Rover service (was Feedback on....)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:56:15 -0800
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Gord'n can be reached at 206-361-1940.  His business (garage behind his
> house) is called G&S Services.
>

I have had a chance now to look at a couple of rovers he has worked on and
their owners.
I have also had a chance to talk to Gord'n about some of my own plans and
respect his advice allot.
If I find something that I am not able to do myself, I wouldn't hesitate to
have G&S do it.

Pete

--__--__--

Message: 28
From: "Monika & Steve Rochna" <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO Submissions" <[email-masked]>, "Forward Control List"
  <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:03:18 -0800
Subject: [lro] IIB brake servo unit
Reply-To: [email-masked]

All:

Having just opened up the vaccuum assist servo on my IIB I see that to get
to the servo piston I need to make a tool and remove some factory crimps.
The brake system is filled with an ancient reddish fluid and I'm cleaning it
out for silicone fluid conversion.  If I can't get into the servo piston,
the only option is to clean/rinse it as well as possible and reassemble as
is.I'm not even sure the seals I have are the ones for this unit and will
not know until I get them in-hand.  I'm toying with the idea of simply
removing the servo and running the system just on muscle power alone.  All I
need to do is block the vaccuum line and make a short female/female adapter
to hook the servo in and out together leaving all lines in-place for future
servo reinstallation.  It is my understanding that there is no decrease in
braking available - the only difference is more pedal pressure needed to get
the same amount of braking action.  Is this correct?  I run the vehical well
below spec weight (it was a fire truck).  Have any of you Forward Control,
109 w/servos or 1 Tonne owners done this?

Thanks for the help.

Steve Rochna - Fallon, NV
1972 88"
1968 110"

--__--__--

Message: 29
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:29:02 GMT
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] What's new
From: Paul <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Marin wrote: >>The 777, despite it's staggering complexity, is extremely 
reliable because the technology employed rarely breaks.  But 
when it does break, it requires mechanics with college 
degrees and/or a real understanding of electronics and 
computers and software to fix it. <<

And in a later post he wrote:>>ETOPS planes receive the best maintenance in the 
world.<<

You flatterer, Marin! You will give us 777 Avionics guys big heads.

It is, however true that I bought Dougal because I wanted something that yould 
occasionally go wrong that I could play with. My Shogun (Montero) is one of 
those "In the unlikely event of a malfunction contact your dealer" type of 
vehicles.

I would love to have a play with a DC3 or a B17. Air driven gyros, ah happy 
memories!

Paul Lonsdale

EX-H.M.Coastguard SIII SWB
B895 OJT "Dougal"

--__--__--

Message: 30
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fredrik_Hedstr=F6m?= <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: SV: [lro] Re: Brake upgrades
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:07:31 +0100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

This company in The Netherlands sell disc converison kits if anyone need it.

http://www.ticonsole.nl/

Fredrik Hedstrom
Stockholm, Sweden

> >-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> >Fren: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]Fvr
> >William J. Rice
> >Skickat: den 15 december 2001 21:10
> >Till: [email-masked]
> >Dmne: Re: [lro] Re: Brake upgrades
> >
> >
> >
> >TAW said.
> >> I only have two problems with 109 brakes off road.
> >>
> >> 1. With 2 leading brakes on the front it is REAL hard to
> >hold a 109
> >> stationary nose up on a steep hill (Not an 88 issue)
> >
> >A-men, TA.  I've never been able to hold my 109 (even w/ boosted dual
> >circuit brakes) on super-steep uphills without LOTS of
> >pedal-pushing AND
> >assistance from the transmission brake.  And the water
> >crossing thing is
> >a liability too.  I'm planning on going to discs in the next
> >6 mos., as
> >soon as my mad-scientist friend here finishes his caliper
> >mount/ rotor
> >hat designs for the Wilwood components he's putting on his Uber-Wagen
> >(109SW w/ EFI 302 and all sorts of other mods you don't even
> >want to know
> >about).
> >
> >But I have no qualms whatsoever about offroading w/ my
> >truck--I'm just
> >aware of its limitations and use techniques to compensate in
> >tough spots.
> > If the brakes are so bad that you can't imagine people
> >off-roading w/
> >them, then your brakes ain't right.
> >
> >bill
> >_______________________________________________
> >LRO mailing list
> >[email-masked]
> >http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 31
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Ho Hum, just another lousy day in the air.
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:09:48 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Was a military pilot for a number of years and have a lot of friends that 
are commercial pilots.  The commercial pilots I know are extremely 
dedicated.  They all spend extra time on the simulators, on their own time, 
further polishing their skill at handling emergencies.  If these guys are 
typical, todays airline pilots are the best trained and the best equipped to 
handle any emergency.

There competence is almost entirely due to the simulators which are nearly 
as good, possibly even more realistic than flying the real thing.  I started 
out flying F-8's, a single seat fighter.  Training consisted of several 
weeks familiarization with the systems in static displays, study of the 
operations manual, and then you were on your own.  They stuck you in the 
cockpit and you were off to the wild blue in a very tricky, extremely, high 
performance airplane with nothing but book learning as to how the airplane 
really performed and no one in the plane with you to save your butt if you 
screwed up.  Later on I transitioned into A-3's, twin engined but still 
single piloted, air craft.  Similar pre flight training as the F-8 but at 
least had the benefit of a seasoned pilot sitting next to me on my first 
flights.  He had no controls but could give advice.  In both airplanes, 
realistic emergency training was non existant.  Electrical, engine, 
hydraulic, you name it, emergencies were left to reality and book learning 
to get you through.  Single engine training in the A-3 consisted of pulling 
one throttle to idle and simulating a landing to no lower than 5,000' AGL.  
For safety reasons, you were always told when engine failure was going to be 
simulated and simulating a landing to 5,000' AGL lacked realism, big time.  
Dead stick landings were strictly verbotten and certainly never simulated.  
Because of cost and safety considerations, commercial training was little 
better.  Taking up an empty 7** just to practice emergencies and landings 
was/is just too expensive.

The modern day simulators have changed all that.  They react nearly the same 
as the real thing and emergencies can be fully simulated to the final 
result, even if its crashing into tall buildings.  Good thing the Al Qeada 
fools didn't have access to a 757 simulator or they would have killed many 
more people than they did by hitting the buildings at the lowest possible 
floor.  Consequently, todays pilots are going to have training in almost any 
emergency that can be thought of.

As Marin says, the real demonstration of pilot skills is in the approach and 
take off phase of flight.  The big problem for pilots, at cruise, is staying 
awake.  With a functioning autopilot, their only excitement is meal time.  
Probably the reason that that Canadian flight crew didn't realize they had 
fuel problems till it was nearly too late.

Imagine driving an 18 wheeler from one end of Los Angeles to the other, 
without a steering wheel or brakes, in the middle of rush hour.  That's a 
comparable scenario to what those pilots did that got the DC10 on the ground 
after total hydraulic failure.  If there was a pilot hall of fame, those 
guys should have a building all to themselves.

As they used to say, flying is hours of utter boredom interspersed with 
minutes of sheer terror.

Aloha
Peter O.

>From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
>CC: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
>Subject: [lro] Re: What's new
>Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:32:47 -0800
>
>
>From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: [lro] Re: What's new
>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 03:39:07 +0000
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>
> >Marin, are you trying to say not every commercial airline pilot could 
>have
>landed that Air Transat 'glider' in the Azores?  ;-)
>
>I don't know much about how that accident occurred, other than
>the pilots didn't notice their total fuel quantity was dropping.  The
>plane developed a fuel leak, but instead of gradually going out of
>trim to the point where it was noticed, the automatic fuel distribution
>system on that type of plane simply pumped fuel around on its own
>to maintain airplane trim.  Why the crew didn't see they were losing
>fuel I don't know, other than the fact that the worst situation monitors
>in the world are human beings.  In the case of total fuel loss, however,
>there's not much you can do to "fix" that situation other than gliding
>the plane to as safe a landing as possible.
>
>As for physically landing the plane, the new generation of jets are
>equipped with RATs (Ram Air Turbines) which are little
>propellers on a stick that pop out and provide sufficient electrical
>and/or hydraulic power to operate the plane's systems.  So other
>than the fact that they couldn't add power, the landing would have
>been normal.
>
>The situations I was talking about are like the DC-10 that blew
>it's tail engine and severed all the hydraulic lines, hence all the
>control surfaces were inoperable.  Very few pilots could have
>managed that situation to a landing in which a surprisingly
>large number of passengers survived.
>
>_________________________________________
>C. Marin Faure
>Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
>telephone (425)393-7721
>mobile (206)650-5622
>fax: (425)393-7741
>e-mail: [email-masked]
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

--__--__--

Message: 32
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:05:43 -0700
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
To: "lro" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] LR calendars
Reply-To: [email-masked]

If anyone is interested, the Solihull Society had some calendars printed
up, and they have pictures mostly of Series Rovers. If anyone would like
one, get in touch with Paul Donohue at [email-masked]. They are being
sold to make money for the club.
-- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

--__--__--

Message: 33
From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:39:22 EST
Subject: Re: [lro] Clutch MC overhaul
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In a message dated 12/17/01 8:14:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> For those with oil guns I recommend refitting the
> filler plug with a zerk fitting - makes oiling the
> pedal a quick and simple process.
> 
>      ajr
> 
> 

Is grease acceptable, or must you sue oil?

Grinning?

Zack

--__--__--

Message: 34
From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:47:22 EST
Subject: Re: [lro] Clutch
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In a message dated 12/17/01 7:54:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> The clutch is stuck
> though.  

I've had this problem with a forklift. the wisdom of the list for Rovers is 
to put a frame horn up against something solid, like a really big tree. then 
you pop the clutch a bit, until it loosens the clutch. Four wheel drive is 
probably a real good idea if you try this trick, as I bet you could "pop" 
axles like "pop"corn.

As you have the body off, look into finding a way to block the clutch 
throwout back to achieve maximum clutch withdrawal. Then look into finding a 
way to lever the clutch plate in the rearward direction. Your problem is that 
rust has formed in the pores of your clutch disk gluing it to the flywheel. 
Trying to shear the rust (against the big tree) means you have to shear it 
all at once. Prying the plate away from the flywheel means you are working 
against only a little bit of the rust, (glue) at a time. 

Bodgelicious!

Zack

--__--__--

Message: 35
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:35:17 -0800
From: Paul Quin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Clutch MC overhaul
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I'm definitely on the oil side, there's NO way that grease would get all the
way along that HUGE trunion.  That would be like using grease on your
crankshaft main bearing!!

[Big Grin]

Paul in Victoria.

----- Original Message -----
From: <[email-masked]>

>
> In a message dated 12/17/01 8:14:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [email-masked] writes:
>
>
> > For those with oil guns I recommend refitting the
> > filler plug with a zerk fitting - makes oiling the
> > pedal a quick and simple process.
> >
> >      ajr
> >
> >
>
> Is grease acceptable, or must you sue oil?
>
>
> Grinning?
>
> Zack

--__--__--

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